xeivlaq.o

[loud forge]

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[wooden knoll]

Okay so how does this work

.tr

Huh

<thread name>

What

😭🥹

HAI

[noble latch]

don't worry about that

ask your question

[wooden knoll]

So I needed help with passe composé, this is just for now

Omg

Passé*

I keep messing it up

🙏💔

[noble latch]

what do you need help with regarding passé composé

[wooden knoll]

Avoir

Like i do not understand the placement of avoir in the sentence which

Changes it or something

Wait it's composé with an accent aigu?

[noble latch]

it is

okay let's try it

[wooden knoll]

Weird, my book says otherwise

[noble latch]

"je parle"
how would you change that sentence to be passé composé?

[wooden knoll]

Now

Parler is regular

Avoir

J'ai parlée

+e bc fem sing

Is that correct?

[noble latch]

oh, the past participle doesn't agree here

but otherwise that's correct
"j'ai parlé"

[wooden knoll]

Huh

Wait now im confused

[noble latch]

you conjugate "avoir" in present tense, and add the past participle after that

[wooden knoll]

Oh wait youre right

I mixed it with être

[noble latch]

about agreement?

[wooden knoll]

Alright, now what is this second bizarre form

[noble latch]

you'd be right then, using être in passé composé causes the past participle to agree with the subject
so if the person talking is a woman for instance, you would put the past participle in the feminine form

[noble latch]

which one?

[wooden knoll]

Of avoir

Where there's a rule

I thought that it had to do with the subjects place in the phrase

[noble latch]

the object

[wooden knoll]

Object *******

[noble latch]

(the object being the thing being acted on by the verb)

[wooden knoll]

Typo

😭🥹

[tender scarab]

I think you meant the direct object that can get displaced before the verb, triggering the agreement?

[wooden knoll]

I think so

[noble latch]

if the object is placed before the verb, the past participle agrees with the object
j'ai vu ma sœur
je l'ai vue ("l' " is referring to "ma sœur" which is feminine, and is placed before the verb, hence "vue" agrees in the feminine)

[wooden knoll]

Oh wait so it's the le/la that changes it?

But i thought that it was way more than that

[tender scarab]

Not just le/la.

[wooden knoll]

Honesty I wasn't really paying attention in class

[tender scarab]

Je t'ai vue (te for the woman).

[wooden knoll]

So le/la, the "se" form or whatever its name is

So if its "I have made her" (weird phrase, i know) is it: " je s'ai fait"

Wait huh

I dont quite understand it

[noble latch]

• with avoir:
  — if there is a direct object before the verb: agreement with the object
  — if there is none: no agreement
• with être:
  — agreement with the subject

[wooden knoll]

No that's wrong i think

I see

[tender scarab]

Se is used in pronominal verbs and in third person conjugations (il s'appelle, ils s'appellent).

[wooden knoll]

Its like "self" right?

[tender scarab]

Yep.

[noble latch]

le/la is the proper object pronoun for il/elle
also, you would need to change "fait" to agree in the feminine then

[wooden knoll]

Or is it LITTERALY self

Oh okay

[tender scarab]

You do an action to yourself.

[wooden knoll]

Faité?

Huh

[tender scarab]

It's "je l'ai faite".

[wooden knoll]

So no high accent?

[tender scarab]

The feminine ending is just -e, no accent.

[wooden knoll]

I see

See now i understand the rule but

My brain is error in the le/la part

So if its before the object, follows this rule

Lets say

Euhh

Wait now im confused again

Ill read it wait

So if the object is before the verb

For example

Huh

How do I change the name, btw?

[noble latch]

.tr [name of the tread]

[neon jolt]

Tu as vu Michelle ? Je l’ai vu__e__ hier mais elle est pas là maintenant. Peut-être qu’elle est malade ?
Did you see Michelle? I saw her yesterday but she’s not here right now. Maybe she’s sick?

The past participle « vu » becomes « vue » because of « l’ai (la + ai) »

If I add another woman into the mix, it’ll change accordingly

[wooden knoll]

Ohhhhh so its about the accusative

?

[neon jolt]

Tu as vu Michelle et Angèle ? Je les ai vu__es__ hier mais elles sont pas là maintenant. Peut-être qu’elles sont malade ?
Did you see Michelle and Angèle? I saw them yesterday but they’re not here right now. Maybe they’re sick?

[wooden knoll]

And "self" form only?

[neon jolt]

Pronominal pronouns (i.e. pronouns whose person is the same as the subject) follow the same rules as direct object pronouns

[wooden knoll]

Hmm

[noble latch]

il se voit dans le miroir → he sees himself in the mirror ("se" refers to himself, the object is the same as the subject)
il le voit dans le miroir → he sees it/him in the mirror ("le" refers to something else, the object is different from the subject)

[wooden knoll]

So like

"J'aime la" is an example but in the present ?

So it would be

Je l'ai aime

I think i messed up very bad

[neon jolt]

Je l’aime, object pronouns are NEVER placed after the verb

[wooden knoll]

Oh my god

😭🥹🥹🥹

Wait what

[neon jolt]

Je l’ai aimée
because « l’ai » is « la + ai »

[wooden knoll]

Are you serious?

[neon jolt]

Yes

[wooden knoll]

That's so weird because it's different in my book

[neon jolt]

Make sure that you are not confusing objects in general with object pronouns

[wooden knoll]

But someone else told me that it stays as e without accent aigu

With a female sing example

[neon jolt]

What would be the female here, the subject or object?

[wooden knoll]

Subject

[neon jolt]

Aha, agreement happens with OBJECTS with « avoir » verbs

[wooden knoll]

Ohhhh

Man French is very confusing

[neon jolt]

Il y a un garçon dans le miroir. Élise l’a vu.
The agreement with « vu » is masculine singular because the object is masculine singular

[wooden knoll]

Also what the hell is the "y" in il y a

There is

Whats the y for

Lmao that was absolutely out of context, im sorry

[neon jolt]

At this point in your journey you should just not think about jt

[wooden knoll]

🥹😭

[neon jolt]

However if you are curious

« y » is like ‘there’

[wooden knoll]

Oh my god

So there there is

[neon jolt]

Well no

« il » is just there for conjugation

[wooden knoll]

Is it to show that its it instead of he

[noble latch]

"il" is impersonnal
it doesn't convey any meaning

[neon jolt]

Without a subject, a verb cannot be conjugated

[wooden knoll]

Oh now I thought that y didnt have meaning

[noble latch]

it's just here as a "placeholder" because you can't have a sentence without subject

[wooden knoll]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Is it the same with

Est ce que

Etc etc

[noble latch]

similar to "it's raining" in English
"it" doesn't refer to anything

[wooden knoll]

Why didn't they ever teach me this

Oh now I understand

[noble latch]

no, "est-ce que" is its own fixed construction and doesn't contain any subject

[neon jolt]

English is actually the weird one here because the subject is actually what follows the verb. That’s why we say ‘There is one car’ but ‘There are two cars’. The verb ‘to be’ is agreeing with what comes afterwards; the word ‘there’ is just… there.

[noble latch]

that said
you should just think of "il y a" as its own thing without trying to break it down much

[wooden knoll]

How the heck did y'all teach me something like in less than 30 mins which my teachers would take 4 lessons on

ALSO THEY NEVER EXPLAINED IT. HOW DARE THEY

THEY JUST SAID

"Its just how it is"

Eughh

[noble latch]

I mean

[neon jolt]

tbf

[noble latch]

it kinda is

[neon jolt]

It just works like that

[noble latch]

for many things in language, things are just what they are, due to generations of organic evolution

[wooden knoll]

But i mean come on not even a single context or explanation

Also I have a greater question

[neon jolt]

For example, something ‘has’ sense in French (ça a du sens) whereas in English something ‘makes’ sense. There’s no reason why one language prefers one over another; it just is like that.

[wooden knoll]

Im very confused about the j'aime la thing because thats genuinely how my teachers have teached me

Do y'all think that its some sort of

I mean do yall think that theres some sort of reasoning for it?

[noble latch]

what are you trying to say with "j'aime la"?

because this sentence is either incomplete or incorrect

[wooden knoll]

No la as in

Se

[neon jolt]

You need to get a second opinion because I wouldn’t consider « J’aime la » as a valid translation for ‘I love her’ unless the « la » is actually an article like « J’aime la valise (I love the suitcase) »

[wooden knoll]

What the

Now im getting opps

So youre telling me that they are teaching us non correct French?

But can it be as answer

[noble latch]

if they told you this was a translation for "I love her", then yes

[wooden knoll]

For example "tu aimes Danemark?"

Nvm thats masc

[neon jolt]

I mean, French is known as a ‘romantic’ language and one of the first phrases you would learn is « Je t’aime (I love you) » where « t’aime » is a contraction of « te + aime ». No one, and I mean no one, would say that the answer should be « J’aime te ».

[wooden knoll]

Tu aimes France?

Oui, j'aime la

[neon jolt]

nuh uh

[noble latch]

"tu aimes la France ?"
"oui, je l'aime"
would be the correct phrasing

[neon jolt]

« Tu aimes la France ? Oui, je l’aime. »

[wooden knoll]

Oh my god they are TEACHING US

WHAT

WHAT THEY TEACHED IS WRONG?

WHAT THE HELL

NO WAY

IS IT LIKE IN EVERY DAY USE?

NO?

WTH

[neon jolt]

Either you misunderstood their teaching or your teacher came from Temu

[wooden knoll]

Temu bro temu

[noble latch]

that is actually pretty worrying, because this is considered basics

[wooden knoll]

Im going to ask this

Cause theres no way

It has to be some sort of error

Or there has to be reason/explanation for it

[noble latch]

hopefully it's all a misunderstanding

[wooden knoll]

I hope too

I dont think that this might be a reason,but

Is it possible for it to be different?

Belgian-French?

[noble latch]

no, that's universal to my knowledge

[wooden knoll]

Ohhh

[neon jolt]

I’ve not known any French variety that would put object pronouns after verbs

[wooden knoll]

This is very concerning

[neon jolt]

Tonic pronouns maybe but object pronouns?

-# I guess you can make the argument that tonic pronouns are object pronouns but you get the idea

[wooden knoll]

Ill try to find an exercise where it was used

Ill try to see

Those are the same teachers that argue over if a word is feminine or masculine btw 😭😭😭🤦‍♀️

[neon jolt]

????

I mean that can happen but almost exclusively for loanwords

If it’s any regular noun, gender should not be argued

[wooden knoll]

Haha happened once with "hair", i still remember that

[noble latch]

cheveu and poil are masculine

[wooden knoll]

Temu teachers bro HHaha

IM CRYING HAHAHAA

[noble latch]

although intermediate learners might not be too familiar with that as they're most often in the plural form

[wooden knoll]

Why am I even expecting them to be like an university professional professor or something lmao

[neon jolt]

Honestly these are mistakes I’d expect A2 people to make, not professors teaching the language

[tender scarab]

Weren't there stories of French teachers being there despite the lack of their qualification?

[brazen raptor]

Aussi le verbe auxiliaire « être » pourrait utiliser pour les verbes pronominaux Par exemple : Elle s’est baignée ou ils se sont échappés.

[noble latch]

we didn't get to the topic of when être or avoir was used, only on how to agree

[brazen raptor]

Oh.

[noble latch]

I mean you're not wrong, I just don't want Σκα to be confused reading it

[neon jolt]

My instinct actually says « Elle s’est baignée / Ils se sont échappé »

bcs baigner takes a direct object whereas échapper takes an indirect one

J’ai échappé à ma condition

[brazen raptor]

Ah d’accord

[tender scarab]

No, "ils se sont échappés" is correct. On s'échappe de quelque chose after all.

[neon jolt]

True though idk if the presence of « de quelque chose » would mean that the pronominal is a COD

Le Conjugueur agrees with me

[brazen raptor]

J’utilise le site web ( Conjugaison Bescherelle )

[neon jolt]

Fight fight fight

[wooden knoll]

Lmao whats happening

[wooden knoll]

We really just have to learn

It out of our head

Like house of être

That's just an excuse for "learn it fully with your heart"

[noble latch]

I mean yeah
there's kind of a pattern to which verbs use être (verbs that use your whole being like motion or birth/death) but overall you just have to learn which verbs use être

[wraith zealot]

I lost a several braincells reading this— my own fault. I know all these grammar rules and have studied them and also forgotten how to properly use it. Thanks for a good refresher lessons!

[wooden knoll]

Guys, i have a question

I do not understand

How i have to

Put "ma sœur va sortir" in past time

[neon jolt]

so this is the futur proche/near future where the word aller is conjugated in the present

to put that in the past, just conjugate the verb in the imperfect

[wooden knoll]

How does that even work in passé composé

[neon jolt]

Je vais quitter la soirée
I am going to leave the party

J’allais quitter la soirée
I was going to leave the party

[neon jolt]

It does not

[wooden knoll]

Also do y'all know why it says "passé compose"

Like without an accent aigu

[neon jolt]

erm it is???

Passé composé

[wooden knoll]

Now im genuinely concerned

[tender scarab]

Near future uses aller + infinitive, it isn't really a tense. If you want to put that in passé composé, you just keep the infinitive and conjugate it in passé composé.

[wooden knoll]

First j'aime la being wrong, now a word being written wrong

AND SOMETHING THAT ISNT IN PASSE COMPOSE BEING IN MY EXERCISE?

Wth

Guys should I be concerned

[neon jolt]

Not even Temu is this bad tbh

[neon jolt]

Does it work in the passé composé though? If someone said « Je suis allé quitter la soirée », for example, I wouldn’t treat that as a nearfuture but in the past

[wooden knoll]

Maybe its just an extra thing that doesnt need to be conjugated?

Isk

Isk

Idk

[tender scarab]

On the other hand, aller + infinitive isn't always near future, it's also a movement verb combined to an action as the goal. In that case, you can conjugate aller in PC.

[tender scarab]

Yep, as I said.

[wooden knoll]

Oh wait

There is infact a handout

And it has

Passé composé

With é

BUT in my book

Its not like thay

Wtf

[neon jolt]

Okay so the earlier one was just a fluke

It happens

[wooden knoll]

Okay but im still confused about the jaime la

Bc its litteraly

Written

[neon jolt]

I mean, does every instance of passé composé miss the final accent

[neon jolt]

Yeah this is not it

[wooden knoll]

I was like oh yeah that sounds great

I ask y'all, this is f* up

[neon jolt]

Please don’t tell me this book is written by your teacher

[wooden knoll]

LOL MO

NO

[neon jolt]

oh man who let « j’aime la » be published

[brazen raptor]

Wth

[wooden knoll]

BUT THE WORSE PART IT

IS

I REMEMBER MY TEACHER SAYING IT OUT LOUD IN THE CLASS

LIKE TWO TIMES

🫩🥹

WHATS THE EXPLANATION TO THIS

[brazen raptor]

J’aime la quoi ?

[brazen raptor]

Ma soeur allait sortir ?

[wooden knoll]

Je pense c'est un answer (idk in french leave me ALONE) a

[wooden knoll]

Yeah I guess its just a trick thing

So

Wait lemme

Hold on

Bri I just realized

Almost everything has like a head verb or what the hell it is called

The most important verb

Like for example

Nous allons

Découvrir

[neon jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-funny-wtf-wth-jesse-gif-17336046

[brazen raptor]

Infinitive?

[wooden knoll]

No no

Like découvrir is the most important verb

Next to aller

[neon jolt]

It’s actually aller since that verb is what gives it the ‘future’ connotation

[wooden knoll]

Oops

[neon jolt]

In the nearfuture construction of « aller » plus an infinitive

But that’s only true in the near future

If I say something like « J’écris », there’s no ‘head verb’

There’s just… the verb

[wooden knoll]

I think I have teachers from temu.com

[neon jolt]

That being said, half of all French tenses are compound tenses in that they contain two parts. Passé composé, for example, has two parts, an auxiliary verb (avoir or être) and a past participle; that’s why it’s composé (compound).

[noble latch]

so, there are two ways to look at it:

• in order to conjugate a verb, you might have to use a helper verb that supports the construction. This is similar to "I have been" in English where "have" only exists for grammatical purpose.
• in every simple sentence, only one verb is conjugated. When using a helper verb though, it's usually that helper verb that is conjugated.

[neon jolt]

I would say though that the near future construction and the compound tenses are not directly comparable

[wooden knoll]

Hm I see

Man now im genuinely concerned

Why

The hell

Are they teaching us "incorrect" french

Like i noticed it too

With science

In 7th grade

We had learned about the cells of plants etc

And about how the leaf green granules

Were only in

Green plants

But

They are in ALL plants

Its like

They are teaching us incorrect stuff

But later in higher grades they correct theirselves

But they never mention it

Like they act as if its a "new" rule

Wth

[neon jolt]

Right but at least in that basic level the material is fundamentally right but it might be overgeneralised or oversimplified

[wooden knoll]

Idk

Youre right imo

[neon jolt]

There is no world wherein « J’aime la » as ‘I love her’ is right

That is fundamentally an error

[wooden knoll]

Okay I will be asking my teacher that

Like wth

Dude

Im very concerned for other students too honestly

They are brainwashing us

[neon jolt]

If I said to you that chlorophyll is found only in green plants but you found out it’s in all plants, it might be that there’s some trait of chlorophyll that is too complicated to explain but the statement isn’t fundamentally wrong

[wooden knoll]

Well technically youre right

But she LITTERALY said that you wouldn't EVER find it in other color based plants

[neon jolt]

Them teaching « J’aime la » is like me going, ‘Chlorophyll is only found in animals’

[wooden knoll]

🥹🥹😭🙏

TEMU AHH

Bro

I swear

I swear genuinely I do

WHAT KIND OF TEMU TEACHERS

DO WE HAVE

Why are they allergic to explaining actual concepts

[brazen raptor]

Je l’aime would work 🤣

[neon jolt]

The chlorophyll analogy in French would probably me going like

The word « y » means ‘there’

It technically means that, yes, but its usage is faaaar more complicated than just ‘there’

[wooden knoll]

Il y a

Actually Its so tuff in my opinion

The il is so tuff

Bro is needed

Wait i should go to sleep

Pulling an all nighter to study for my test, and do my homework is probably not a great idea

[wooden knoll]

Guys

Do y'all what something like

JE voudrais

Or smth

[neon jolt]

???

[wooden knoll]

Means

Omg I forgot to finish my sentence

My apologies

[wooden knoll]

HAIAHAIAHAIAH

So well

Tommorow is my test

I understand most of the stuff

EVEN the avoir thing now

However I don't understand the house of être

Like is être only for moving actions verbs or whatever?

[neon jolt]

excepting pronominals, verbs that use être as their auxiliary verb tend to describe a sort of motion

but not all verbs that describe motion use être

At the end of the day, it’s simply something you have to memorise

[tender scarab]

Marcher, for example, is a motion verb yet it uses avoir. So être verbs somewhat related to motion isn't really an important point to consider.

[wooden knoll]

I see

Its like made of similar type of verbs, however thats not because they are it but the language itself?

Like i have played ≠ i am played

Yeah okay

Maybe not the same for French but