Bill (imparfait|corrigezmoi)

[storm kernel]

Please be patient

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[real meadow]

I was reading WR and it said

« Ne … rien » is « not … anything »
« Un rien » is « a tad / bit »

So rien depending on use is either a tad or just nothing at all?

And in this way, « il n’y a rien ici » would be « there isn’t a tad here », ergo nothing

[fallen flower]

this is a negative sentence
negative sentences use "ne" + a negative adverb
ne... pas => not
ne... plus => not anymore
ne... que => only
ne... rien => nothing
(there are other ones)

whenever you want to make a sentence using "nothing", this translates to both "ne" and "rien" in French. This is a single negation, not a double.
Just like all negative sentences though, "ne" can be dropped in casual speech

je vois => I see
je ne vois pas => I don't see
je ne vois rien => I see nothing / I don't see anything

il y a => there is
il n'y a pas => there isn't
il n'y a rien => there is nothing / there isn't anything

[real meadow]

Oh rien is part of the ne negation. I had thought it was just the ne… pas.

I’ve seen other things like these, which made sense when I look at them.

• ne… jamais (not ever / never)
• ne… plus (not more / no longer)

Just that « ne… rien » seemed a bit different.

[vital pier]

At first, negations only used 'ne'.

Je ne suis vieux -> I am not old.

Then, to add emphasis, additional words were added:

Je ne marche pas -> I do not walk a step/even one step.
Je ne bois goutte -> I do not drink a drop/even one drop.
Je ne mange miette -> I do not eat a crumb/even one crumb.
(pas = step).

Eventually, 'ne ... pas' was kept for almost all negations, with exceptions being

• Ne ... guère
• Ne ... jamais
• Ne ... personne
• Ne ... rien
• Ne ... que
• Ne ... plus
  Etc. It's just the structure of negations nowadays: 'ne ... <something else>'. With very few exceptions, this is how modern negation works.

You can think of negations as encompassing whatever they negate.

Sometimes they don't make sense if translated literally.

[fallen flower]

-# note: the example with only "ne" casca gave is historical, this type of negation doesn't exist anymore.

[vital pier]

-# It persists in the 'ne littéraire' with verbs such as oser, pouvoir, cesser, etc. That said, it's formal and rarely used in speech. The aforementioned verbs don't require anything other than 'ne', though it's uncommon to see them used that way nowadays.

The slightly less old but also historical negation with 'ne ... miette' and 'ne ... goutte' for specific verbs is also rare. I've personally only seen it used for emphasis/sarcastically.

[distant vine]

I've heard ne...mie a couple times from elderly people in northern France.

Ne...point too for that matter

[vital pier]

It's more formal nowadays, no?

[charred dirge]

So with that in mind, there isn't nothing here = il n'y a pas rien ici (il y a au moins quelque chose ici).

[distant vine]

It's literary and unused in speech except ironically by most people, though it survives in speech in some rural areas.

[real meadow]

Merci beaucoup, désolé I didn’t get back to this sooner. Had a hectic day packing and driving.

[gloomy parrot]

faire attention! there's a thing called ne expletif and that one is not a negation