Matthieu

[proven haven]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[tame crater]

Just to explain why I would translate it the way I did, take a sentence like "Depuis que je suis ici avec vous je me sens bien" - I think it is totally right to say "Since I have been here with you, I have been feeling good", because temporally you're marking the difference between the state before "being with you" and the current ongoing state. Maybe the translator is using "since" like "because" rather than temporally but that surprises me a bit for French, I personally would not use "depuis que" in a causal way, more likely I would say "vu que" or "étant donné que"

I'm waffling again!!!! lol

[stray zenith]

"Since I stopped going out" would probably be what I would go with, to keep things temporal. "Since I have not" becomes causative to me.

But I agree, it's weird that the translator seems to have switched depuis que to puisque

[tame crater]

that's a very good point, especially for an oral style which is what this book is largely going for (not familier just spoken, unpretentious)

maybe the long verb structure that I came up with is unlikely to be used in actual speech

[stray zenith]

I mostly attributed that to UK vs NA english

[tame crater]

yeah tbf that's a good point

i think a lot of UK speakers would use the so-called NA variant just because it's less complicated

idk if i've been indoctrinated into a more complicated form because of language learning and focussing on grammar things haha

[lyric talon]

Well that sentence in french doesn't make sense to me

Yk depuis doesn't have that meaning similar to because

Afaik

[stray zenith]

It doesn't, at all, but both depuis and puisque can translate to since

[lyric talon]

Yeah but that's misleading

[stray zenith]

Agreed

[lyric talon]

They both translate to "since" but they both correspond to a different meaning of since

[stray zenith]

Yep, I pointed that out lol

But I agree, it's weird that the translator seems to have switched depuis que to puisque

[tame crater]

There are obviously different philosophies to translating but I generally feel that the translator should not change the intention of the original sentence - here I think they have done and it's probably a step too far, even if they might argue that it's not a crucial change on the scale of the whole story

[tame crater]

do you mean "Depuis que je suis ici avec vous je me sens bien" is not correct by the way? if so would you mind telling me what's wrong with it?

[lyric talon]

After depuis que i would expect a past tense unless it's a habit

Same thing in English right?

If we consider have + pp to be a past tense

[tame crater]

here are two example sentences from a bilingual dictionary, this is the sort of thing i was thinking of

▸ depuis qu'il sait nager, il adore l'eau
he has loved the water ever since he learned to swim
▸ je le vois rarement depuis qu'il habite au Canada
I haven't seen much of him since he went to live in Canada

ah but again i feel that the intention is different in both of these english sentences to what is written in french lol

i don't know which one was written first btw it's a digital oxford-hachette* dictionary

[lyric talon]

they changed knowing how to swim to learning it

thats interesting

[tame crater]

yes exactly i think that's a bit weird of them lol

[stray zenith]

That's not terribly unusual tbh. We wouldn't use to know here

[lyric talon]

but then

Depuis que je suis ici avec vous je me sens bien

hmmmmmmmmmm

[tame crater]

even then I think I would say "He has loved the water ever since he could swim" or something, learning is different to knowing how to do something (obvs) and i would want to express that in a translation

[stray zenith]

Eh, I think at that point it's mostly style/nuance. A lot of these notions get confounded in translation

[tame crater]

maybe the problem we're falling into here, in two different languages with different tense systems, is that there is no single fool-proof way to translate between one and the other lol it is always going to be quite subjective

and whoever does whatever translation they will find a way to justify it

Also, just occurred to me, there is a strong chance an editor got involved after the translator did their job and smoothed things out

[stray zenith]

Yeah, and you have to be willing to change the structure a bit to accurately translate the meaning

[tame crater]

yeah definitely

[lyric talon]

Depuis que je ne sors presque plus
to keep the meaning id make it negative like since i stopped going out

for the presque i'd say pretty much but its probably too informal for a book?

ig almost works fine

[tame crater]

i agree, instinctively i would want to include "stopped"

[stray zenith]

"Since I basically stopped going out"

[lyric talon]

isnt basically too informal too

[stray zenith]

switch it to essentially for more formality

meh

[tame crater]

"mostly stopped going out" maybe, but they all work they are just different levels of formality

it's not so important at the end of the day

thank you for your input, both of you :)

[wraith prairie]

Ever since I('ve) basically stopped going out, yadda yadda