miketuan

[pine meadow]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[stoic kayak]

There's unfortunately no general rule, most verbs with à tend to imply some kind of effort or purpose like commencer à (begin to), chercher à (try to), but then there's also essayer de which also means "try to". 😄

Verbs with "de" often tend to imply some kind of decision like décider de (decide to), refuser de (refuse to), but you may also encounter some constructions like "se décider à" which can also mean "decide to".

You'll get more used to which one to chose as you use them.

[sage coral]

"Thomas les a remerciés d'être venus"
By the way, can I ask why "remerciés" but not "remercié" in the above sentence?

Lmao, I got it, object pronouns agree with the past participle in passé composé, I learnt it just now

[echo spear]

other way around, and only direct objects (not necessarily pronouns) that come before the verb

[sage coral]

I got it!

[stoic imp]

While a lot of the time there is agreement, there are exceptions to note:

• Elle s'est lavée. / Elle s'est douchée. (agreement because se = direct object before verb)

• Elle s'est lavé les mains. (se = indirect object / les mains = direct object / no agreement)

• Les pommes que j'ai mangées (agreement because the apples were the target of the action)

• J'ai mangé les pommes (no agreement), but if les = feminine noun, then agreement for: Je les ai mangées.

• Elles ont été exclues [par nous]. (Passive voice, "elles" is the target even as the subject)

• Verbs with a direct object, like rencontrer quelqu'un : Elles se sont rencontrées." (se = direct object)

• Verbes with an indirect object, like parler à quelqu'un: Elles se sont parlé. (se = indirect object)

• additional exceptions with faire / laisser in certain constructions, like with "faire causatif" I think. Perhaps "Les poubelles que j'ai fait sortir.", at least I think, and not "...que j'ai faites sortir".

[sage coral]

Ahh, I did not expect this

But good to know, I have to learn more about this

[sage coral]

Does this agreement thing only apply to passé composé? How about other tense like plus-que-parfait , etc. (Although I have not learn them yet)

[sage coral]

By the way, should it be "Elle s'est lavé les mains" in your example?

[stoic imp]

I suppose wherever there's a participle used in a conjugation

[errant kindle]

It applies to any compound tense, not just passé composé.

[stoic imp]

In the first example, I purposely didn't use les mains because if I had, then that would be the direct object, and there would be no agreement. Without it, there is agreement because se is the direct object

Oh yikes

I made a typo

[sage coral]

no problem I just wanna confirm

[stoic imp]

@sage coral I corrected it

[sage coral]

That's been a lot to learn today

[stoic imp]

• Elle s'est lavée.
• Elle s'est lavé les mains.

[echo spear]

Worth noting that these aren't really exceptions but rather examples of the rule I gave
Faire/laisser are a bit vague, "faire" formally never agrees but is a bit of a tossup on how it gets used with native speakers. "Laisser" formally can be both, depending on if you associate it with "faire" constructions or not
A direct object before the verb also doesn't necessarily mean it is the object of the verb that could take an agreement—je les ai entendus dire qu'ils étaient tristes/les vérités que j'ai entendu dire

[stoic imp]

Yeah, I saw this https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/agreement-with-direct-objects/