#rio.fr_

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hexed pantherBOT
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Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

formal lance
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I’m A2 and I should have learned this but idk how I missed it

rancid vault
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Passé composé describes quick actions that have a clear before/after state. For example, « j'ai allumé la lumière (I turned on the light) ». The act of turning on is quick (just a simple flick of the light switch) and has a clear before/after state. Before I turned on the light, the room is dark; after I turned on the light, the room is bright.
Imparfait describes long-duration events that don't have a clear before/after state. For example « il pleuvait (it was raining) ». The event of raining is not quick (rain can fall for hours), and there's not a clear before/after state. For example, at 12.00 it was raining hard, at 13.00 it was slowing down, at 13.30 it picked up again, at 13.45 it slowed down to a drizzle, and then slowly over the course of 15 minutes it died down to the point where at 14.00 the rain has stopped. There's no point in the timeline where you can clearly say that before that point it was raining and after it was not; the boundary is fuzzy.

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That's the first use

formal lance
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Alright

rancid vault
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Passé composé describes one-off actions that happened sometime in the past. For example « je suis allé à l'école à 08h00 ce jour-là (I went to school at 08.00 that day) ». The act of me going to school at 08.00 might just be what happened on that day; it might just be that I would go later or earlier than 08.00. The point is that on that specific day, I went at 08.00 and I didn't do it again.
Imparfait describes habitual actions that happened so predictably that it all sort of melted into one. For example, « j'allais à l'école à 07h30 tous les jours (I went to school at 07.30 every day) ». The act of me going to school at 07.30 didn't just happen in one specific day, it kept going for the next day, and the next, and the next. Because of that, I treated it as just one long event.

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That's the second use

formal lance
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Wait

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What

rancid vault
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Yeah passé composé and imparfait has multiple uses

formal lance
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Passé composé est a quick one off action that started and ended clearly.

rancid vault
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There's a third set but I'll answer your questions before explaining that

rancid vault
# formal lance Passé composé est a quick one off action that started and ended clearly.

Mmhm. You can think of the second use's passé composé in that context as well. Me going to school was just something that happened and ended on that day. On Monday, for example, I went to school at 08.00 even though I usually went at 07.30 – maybe I woke up late or whatever – so in the context of the other days, what happened on Monday was just a one-off

formal lance
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OHHH

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So if it’s a repeated action that you do a lot you use imparfait?

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But what if it happens again later that year? Does that make it imparfait or is it just the norm vs the abnormal

rancid vault
rancid vault
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Basically, is it a habitual thing that you do?
Yes: Imparfait
No: Passé composé

formal lance
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Ok

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So if I usually have a c&c vreakfast

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But today I forgot a c, and it’s the 4th this year but I didn’t mean to because I usually bring both

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Even though it’s repeated

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It’s not the intentional routine

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Only the intentional routine is imparfait

rancid vault
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Right

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It's not a habitual thing

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Unless you forgot a C every 4th

formal lance
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Then it’s habitual

rancid vault
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Exactly

formal lance
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Does it have to be on purpose?

rancid vault
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Because presumably

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You forgot it a few days

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and the rest of the year you didn't forget it

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thus passé composé

formal lance
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Like if I just happen to forgot a c every 4 is it habitual?

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Yeah…

rancid vault
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I would say so

formal lance
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Ok

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So even if not intentional if it becomes a habit, it’s imparfait

rancid vault
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That habitual nature is what's key, not the purpose

formal lance
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Ok tell me the 3rd use

rancid vault
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Even though it's not intentional – you didn't make a conscious attempt every time to step on the creaky step – the habitual nature of it makes imparfait

fast grotto
lean blaze
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@formal lance i think it might be helpful to add that you were originally wondering about the difference between "j'ai pensé que c'était bizarre" and "je pensais que c'était bizarre"

fast grotto
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You can totally say il a étudié longtemps pour devenir docteur

formal lance
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Yo I think I’m alright with bear here guys. I get confused if there are more people I must listen to

fast grotto
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We are one

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We are legion

rancid vault
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Passé composé and imparfait both describe things that happened and ended in the past, but the consequences of those things are different.
Passé composé describes a past action whose consequences lasted to this day; this is an extension of the first use. For example, in the earlier example of « j'ai allumé la lumière (I turned on the light) », if you didn't turn off the electricity – either by flipping the switch to off or turning off the power to the house – that light would still be on. Even though the act of turning on the light may be minutes, hours, or days before, the end result/consequence (the light still being on and thus the room being bright) is still true to the present time.
Imparfait describes a past event whose consequences are entirely confined to the past; they have no bearing on the present. For example, in the earlier example of « il pleuvait (it was raining) », the sky would be clear by the time the rain ended. As time went on, the consequences of that rain slowly disappeared to the point where there's no remains of that rain perhaps hours or days later.

formal lance
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I don’t understand that. How can it be past tense if it’s still going

rancid vault
formal lance
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Wait I’m stupidly

rancid vault
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Like me turning on the light was yesterday

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but the light (the end result) is still on to this day

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The action was yesterday

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The end-result or consequence still applies to today

formal lance
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So if I fall off my back and say “I fell of my bike” and got a scar on my leg. I would use passé composé

rancid vault
formal lance
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Alright…

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So does it have to meet ALL this criteria

rancid vault
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No, it can mix and that's why it's really hard to sus out which one you're supposed to use in a different context

formal lance
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So what do I do to know which one

rancid vault
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Context and a lot of training unfortunately

lean blaze
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a little bit of reading books can help

rancid vault
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Using one or the other can also subtly change the perception

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J'ai voulu être médecin (I wanted to become a doctor/I decided to want to become a doctor)
=> Here, the passé composé implies a point in time where before you didn't want to become a doctor and after you decided to want to become a doctor (use 1), and that this desire of you wanting to become a doctor has continued to this day (use 3)

Je voulais être médecin (I wanted to become a doctor/I used to want to become a doctor)
=> Here, the imparfait implies that your desire to become a doctor started and ended fully in the past. At some period in time, you wanted to be a doctor (use 2) but now you no longer want to become that (use 3).

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The shitty part is that both are translated as 'I wanted to become a doctor' in English so I added additional translations that help you sus out the intended meaning

lean blaze
solemn vortex
solemn vortex
rancid vault
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« Je marchais dans la rue quand j'ai vu un accident »

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Which adds to the complexity

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I don't blame you if you don't understand this at A2
Hell even me at B2 it can take me some time to find the right tense within the context

formal lance
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Yo bro one person please this is way too much

solemn vortex
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tbh I don't think it's a good idea to learn like this

solemn vortex
formal lance
solemn vortex
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maybe write a paragraph about what you did last weekend or some trip you made somewhere and send it here

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it could also be something fictional

lean blaze
# formal lance Wdym

When you see imperfect, try translating it as "was [verb]ing". It usually makes sense.

je marchais dans la rue -> i was walking on the street

you can do the same with English stuff. if you put it in continuous past and it means more or less the same thing, it's probably imparfait.

I walked on the street and saw a cat = i was walking on the street and saw a cat

I fell and got a scar ≠ i was falling and got a scar

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it works for habitual stuff too.

I saw my therapist once a week = i was seeing my therapist once a week (there's a slight difference in nuance in English but in French they're both imperfect)

i saw my therapist this morning ≠ i was seeing my therapist this morning

formal lance
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I don’t get it

lean blaze
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are you a native english speaker?

rancid vault
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Example:
Hier, je suis allé au marché pour acheter des fruits et des légumes. Quand je faisais mes courses, j'ai rencontré une vieille camarade de classe. Elle et moi étions dans la même promotion. Je ne lui ai jamais dit mais je craquais pour elle. Je pensais que c'était la plus belle fille. J'ai pensé que je devrais reprendre contact avec elle mais à la fin j'ai décidé que c'était une mauvaise idée. Après qu'on s'était salués, je suis allé à une autre allée pour finir mes courses. Il pleuvait quand je suis sorti du marché donc je suis resté dedans pendant quelques minutes en attendant que la pluie finisse. Quand il ne pleuvait plus, je suis revenu chez moi.

Yesterday, I went [I decided to go] to the market to buy some fruits and vegetables. When I was doing my shopping, I met an old classmate. She and I were [used to be] in the same year. I've never told her but I had [used to have] a crush on her. I thought [I used to think] that she was the most beautiful girl. I thought [A thought came to me saying] that I should get in touch with her again but at the end I decided that it was a bad idea. After we greeted one another, I went [I decided to go] to another aisle to finish my shopping. It was raining when I came out of the market so I stayed [I decided to stay] inside for a few minutes while waiting for the rain to stop. When it was no longer raining, I came back to my home.

formal lance
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I still don’t grasp it

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I understand the first 3 things but idk how to decide on usage

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Bear help

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I have French tutoring tmr

rancid vault
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Basically, English has three main past tenses: The simple past (I walked), the present perfect (I have walked), and the simple past continuous (I was walking).
French's passé composé covers the present perfect (I have walked = J'ai marché); the imparfait covers the simple past continuous (I was walking = Je marchais).
The wrinkle is in the simple past which can either be passé composé or imparfait depending on the context.

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Me explaining the three main uses is for you to help define that context.

formal lance
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Could I send you a paragraph to correct?

rancid vault
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Sure send it here

formal lance
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It’s not gonna be very good cuz my vocab is ass

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Might be A1 honestly

rancid vault
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dw about it

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we all start somewhere

formal lance
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Im tired so its kinda buns

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Hier je me promenais dans la parc et j’ai vu des oiseaux et j’ai marché dans la supermarché comme d’habitude quand je vais me promener.

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It’s 1:20 here

rancid vault
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dw about it

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Only the last part is wrong

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« … et j'ai marché dans le supermarché comme d'habitude quand je me promenais »

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The reason why it's « j'ai marché » and not « je marchais » even though it's a habit is due to the last bit: « je me promenais ». Aside from the three uses above, the two tenses can also interact with one another. When you have two habitual actions, the one that happens the longest will be imparfait and the shortest will be the passé composé

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You walking into the store is just one element of you taking a walk. When you go out for a walk, you can go into a store, sure, but you also look at birds, you buy stuff, you do errands, etc

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You can think of the imparfait as describing a background event and the passé composé as something happening within that background event

formal lance
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If I was going for a swim and I saw a dolphin. The swim would be nagerais whilst the dolphin would be vu?

rancid vault
formal lance
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So the imparfait is the general event whilst passé composé is a mini-event kind of

rancid vault
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Passé composé is just an action whereas imparfait is more like background description and events

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Much wider in scope

formal lance
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I still don’t understand

rancid vault
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What do you not understand?

formal lance
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I was writing another paragraph

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But it looks like only the initial sentence has the imparfait

rancid vault
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Maybe a timeline would help

timeline.png
rancid vault
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Just depends on what you're writing

formal lance
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I was writing about walking down the street and seeing the shops. Just walking around Paris en général

rancid vault
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« À ce moment-là, je me tenais debout devant un magasin. Le magasin avait l'air mystérieux, comme si c'était un endroit que personne ne devrait visiter. Je me sentais à la fois fasciné et horrifié, mais je ne pouvais pas m'empêcher de me rendre dedans. Là, il n'y avait rien qui me choquait mais j'avais toujours l'impression que quelque chose n'allait pas. Enfin, j'ai décidé de l'examiner. »
'At that moment, I was standing in front of a store. The store seemed mysterious, as if it was a place that no one should visit. I felt at the same time fascinated and horrified, but I could not prevent myself from going inside. There [as in inside], there was nothing shocking but I still had this impression that something wasn't right. Finally, I decided to examine it.'

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A story that's mostly imparfait, just one passé composé

formal lance
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Yeah I guess but how does that work? I also just don’t know enough vocab/verbs to write stories

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The story I was writing was from the perspective of someone who doesn’t often go on walks through Paris

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So I was using passé composé for it

rancid vault
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« Quand j'étais pétit, j'ai voulu être médecin. Cette décision a été prise quand j'ai vu mon ami s'étouffer. Il avait avalé quelque chose d'immangeable. J'ai couru vers lui et l'ai aidé à pousser cet objet-là. Quand l'objet était sorti, une capsule, je me suis senti comme un héros. Il m'a remercié et à partir de ce moment, j'ai décidé de continuer à sauver des gens. »
'When I was little, I wanted to become a doctor. This decision was made when I saw my friend choking. He had swallowed something inedible. I ran to him and helped him push that object. When it came out, a bottle cap, I felt like a hero. He thanked me and from that moment on, I decided to continue to save people.'

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One imparfait, two plus-que-parfait, the rest passé composé

rancid vault
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then find the verbs

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Look at it through the context of the story

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For example, look at these two sentences.
« Je me sentais à la fois fasciné et horrifié (I felt at the same time fascinated and horrified) »
« […] je me suis senti comme un héros (I felt like a hero) »

Why is the first imparfait and the second passé composé? Well, for the first story, the sentence is describing a feeling that I was having at the time. It wasn't a clear action where there was a before/after period but a simple description. For the second story, that sentence is describing an emotion that came and went because I had saved my friend's life. There was a clear switch where I went from not feeling like a hero to feeling like a hero.

lean blaze
# formal lance I still don’t grasp it

My bad, I didn't explain very well. Let me try again from a different angle.

The simplest explanation I've heard is that passé composé describes a "moment of change", while imparfait describes an "ongoing state or description".

My favorite example is this:
Il savait quoi faire - He knew what to do (ie. Since before that moment)
Il a su quoi faire - He knew what to do (ie. In that moment, he suddenly had an idea of what to do)

Both translate to the same thing in english, the difference is that the first is a description of the static/unchanging knowledge of the person, and the second is describing the exact moment that the person went from not knowing to knowing.

formal lance
lean blaze