flora (corrigez-moi svp!)

[mellow root]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[rough verge]

Oui, elle rit à cause de lui. C'est une construction causale.

"Damien makes his sister laugh."

[dim gulch]

ok merci bcp!!

[gilded escarp]

Something's weird with this. "Être sujet de" isn't a thing as far as I know, it should either be "est sujet à" or "est le sujet de". Beyond that, gramatically, it seems to me that l'élève indiscipliné, les spectateurs, and sa sœur are all direct objects, not subjects. Either the assignment is wrong, has an error in the language, or there's something I'm missing.

My best guess is that they meant to write "est sujet à", in which case they're not saying that "l'élève indiscipliné" etc are the subject of the verbs, they're saying that they're subject to the verbs.

If they meant to say "est le sujet de", I'm no grammar expert but from what I know, that's incorrect.

[dim gulch]

ah dym explaining a bit more?

[gilded escarp]

basically i think your assignment has an error but I'm not sure.

[dim gulch]

oh ok do you know where else I can find info about this?

[gilded escarp]

<@&269900884857716737> vous pouvez m'aider ici s'il vous plaît ?

[gilded escarp]

i pinged the tutors, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will know what's up

[dim gulch]

thank you so much :')

[gilded escarp]

no problem!

[silent stirrup]

It's fine with or without the article in this expression.

Same with objet.

[gilded escarp]

in that case i don't get why it's saying that l'étudiant indiscipliné is the subject when gramatically it's a direct object. i mean i get what they're saying but sortir isn't the main verb of the sentence, it's part of a larger verb clause of which the subject is "le professeur"

[dim gulch]

would it help if I sent the website?

[gilded escarp]

is it this? https://www.podcastfrancaisfacile.com/grammaire/faire-causatif-en-francais-lecon.html

[dim gulch]

yes that's it

[gilded escarp]

this is the only resource I've seen talk about the agent being the "subject" of the second verb in the construction most places just call it an agent

including Wikipedia https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causatif

but that page was translated from English apparently anyway...

[dim gulch]

oh so is the agent the one that's acting out what the second verb is referring to?

[gilded escarp]

yes

[dim gulch]

ah ok it makes the second half make a lot more sense haha

[gilded escarp]

yeah i disagree with the wording, i don't know if it's technically correct or not but i think calling the agent the "subject of the infinitive" is at best confusing.

to me, the sentences have one and only one subject, the one causing the action

[dim gulch]

and that's the one that decides how faire is conjugated?

[gilded escarp]

yes exactly

[dim gulch]

ok I think I got it, thank you so much!

[gilded escarp]

of course!

[quaint halo]

I suppose that in teaching material that doesn't aim to be really linguistically accurate, the idea of the subject being the doer of a verb would push someone into doing this