#melodixx._.

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stoic solsticeBOT
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real harness
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Puls someone explain to me what the difference between all those is

tulip thicket
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Before I deal with the pronouns, I'll explain first the difference between a direct object and an indirect object

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In French theory, an object is something that is affected by a verb. For example, say I have this sentence: « Michel voit Jean (Michel sees Jean) ». We have a verb that denotes the action of seeing, and two objects, Michel and Jean. Because French word order is subject-verb-object in this regard, we can say that Michel is the subject and Jean is the object. In other words, Michel is doing the action and Jean is the one the action applies to; Michel sees, and Jean is the one being seen.

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As we can see, there's nothing existing between the verb and the object. This is a direct object because we jump straight from verb to object.

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An indirect object, on the other hand, has something that is placed between the verb and object. This something is what we call a 'preposition', a word that precedes a noun and expresses some sort of relationship.

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The example here would be « Michel parle à Jean (Michel talks to Jean) ». In this example, we can see that in-between the verb and the noun Jean, we have a little something: « à ». This « à » is a preposition. An indirect object is that preposition plus the noun.

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If we compare the two sentences, we can group them like this:
Michel voit Jean
Subject Verb Direct Object

Michel parle à Jean
Subject Verb Indirect Object

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What determines whether or not a verb requires a direct or indirect object is that verb itself, and often times the preposition is 'innate' to the verb. For example, the verb « rêver (to dream) » requires the preposition « de » whereas the verb « travailler (to work) » can have the preposition « pour ».
Michel rêve de ses tâches
Subject Verb Indirect Object
(Michel dreams about his tasks)

Michel travaille pour son patron
Subject Verb Indirect Object
(Michel works for his boss)

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Some verbs can even require both a direct and an indirect object. Usually verbs like this use the indirect object as a recipient. An example would be the verb « envoyer ».
J' envoie une lettre à ma copine
Subject Verb Direct Object Indirect Object
(I send a letter to my girlfriend)

The verb here has two things that it's affecting: the thing being sent (direct object) and the person to whom that thing is sent (indirect object)

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Take a deep breath, we're about to enter the object pronouns.

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Now, it often happens that we've already mentioned a noun and we want to reuse it. Here's an example.
« J'écris une lettre. J'envoie une lettre à ma copine. (I'm writing a letter. I'm sending a letter to my girlfriend.) »

Here, we have a noun that is mentioned twice: « la lettre ». Because we've already mentioned it, saying it again is unnecessary for the second sentence would be excessive. Thus, we use a pronoun. A pronoun is basically an element that replaces a noun. What we're concerned with here is the object pronoun. An object pronoun is a pronoun that replaces an object; real simple.
Before, I mentioned that French word order is fixed as subject-verb-object. Thing is, when we introduce object pronouns, the order flips. Instead of having subject-verb-object, we have subject-object-verb. We have an object pronoun for each person and number.
=> For the first person (the speaker/the person currently talking), we have « me » in the singular and « nous » in the plural.
=> For the second person (the addressee/the person the speaker is talking to), we have « te/vous » in the singular and « vous » in the plural.
=> For the third person (the listener/someone who is not involved in the conversation), we have « le/la/lui » in the singular and « les/leur » in the plural.

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What we're concerned with is the third person because neither the letter nor my girlfriend is directly involved with me writing and sending a letter.

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The third person pronouns have five sets of pronouns: le, la, lui, les, leur. We can divide these into direct pronouns (le, la, les), and the indirect pronouns (lui, leur). Just as direct pronouns replace direct objects, indirect pronouns replace indirect objects. A key distinction here is that indirect pronouns don't change every indirect object, just those with the preposition « à » and for contexts involving some sort of recipient.

bright hill
# tulip thicket An *indirect* object, on the other hand, has something that is placed between th...

@real harness If I may, a simpler overview might be the following:

  • Subject: whoever performs the action
  • Verb: the action
  • Object: affected by the action
    -> Direct object: directly affected.

Michael kicks the ball.
Subject verb direct object.
Kicking directly affects the ball.
-> Indirect object: indirectly affected.
Michael gives the ball to John.
John is the indirect object, because he too is affected by the action of giving, though not in the way the ball is.

tulip thicket
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Let's deal with the direct pronouns first.
Here, we have three pronouns: le, la, les. We can separate them as the singulars (le, la), and the plural (les). If you know how the definite articles « le, la, les » work, they work the exact same way. Let's use our first example: « Michel voit Jean ». Direct pronouns agree in gender and number. What does that mean? Well, « Jean » is masculine (Jean is a guy) and singular (as in there's just one person). Thus, we use « le » here:
« Michel le voit (Michel sees him) ».
Remember that object pronouns go before the verb.

What if I replace « Jean » with « Émilie »? Well, now the object is feminine so we opt for « la »:
« Michel la voit (Michel sees her) ».

What if I replace « Jean » with « Gabrielle et Marc » ? Well, there's a plural object so I just use « les »:
« Michel les voit (Michel sees them) ».

real harness
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Wait a sec before we continue, are me te nous vous for indirect and direct?

warm shell
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(I think the secret simpler option is using the german equivalents considering they speak it and that the language distinguishes every direct/indirect pronoun, so more than french does)

tulip thicket
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(Yeah but I don't speak German)

bright hill
tulip thicket
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In that case, est-ce que tu veux prendre le relais ? @bright hill

bright hill
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Je m'en occupe. :D

warm shell
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the direct object pronouns are : mich, dich, ihn, sie, uns, euch, sie
the indirect object pronouns are : mir, dir, ihm, ihr, uns, euch, ihnen

warm shell
real harness
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And what’s the difference between the object direct and indirect and just the pronoms direct and indirect

warm shell
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it's like uns/euch, it doesn't change either

warm shell
bright hill
warm shell
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Ich gebe ihn -> Je le donne
Ich gebe ihm -> Je lui donne

real harness
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But the pronoms don’t change in either object or just pronoms if I understood it correctly

warm shell
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Could you clarify what you mean ? I don't really get it

In french the articles don't change like they do in german, only the pronouns do for Il/elle/on/ils/elles

bright hill
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  • L'objet direct: target of an action (verb) [Akkusativ].
  • Les pronoms objet direct: they replace the direct object (target of the action).

Ich begrüße mich/dich/ihn/uns/euch/sie.
Je me/te/le/nous/vous/les salue.

  • L'objet indirect : Recipient of the direct object [Dativ].
  • Les pronoms objet indirect: they replace the indirect object.

Ich schenke mir/dir/ihm/uns/euch/ihnen einen Kuchen.
Je m'/t'/lui/nous/vous/leur offre un gâteau.

real harness
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So on the list it says Les pronoms objet indirect and Les pronoms objet direct so Me, te , lui/le la l‘ and nous vous and leur/ les

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Then l‘objet indirect so me te lui nous vous and mehr

bright hill
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Lass mich wissen, falls das noch nicht reicht.

real harness
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Leur

bright hill
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Les pronoms objet direct : me/te/le/nous/vous/les.
Les pronoms objet indirect : me/te/lui/nous/vous/leur.

real harness
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And les pronoms directs and indirects are the same as objet?

bright hill
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They replace the direct or indirect object.

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So instead of saying

I give John a hug.
You can use an indirect object pronoun and say:
I give him a hug.

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With 'him' replacing the indirect object (John).

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And to replace both:

John? A hug? I'll give him one.
Direct object pronoun and indirect object pronoun.

real harness
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Oh and the objet indirect would just be Je télephoner a emiliy without changing it

bright hill
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Emily would be the indirect object, yes.

real harness
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And then I would change it with the pronoms indirect and direct

bright hill
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Remember to pay attention to what you change, but yes.

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They aren't synonymous, even if most of the pronouns overlap.

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Shared object pronouns: me/te/.../nous/vous.

real harness
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Bro why did my teacher split it in 4 categories even though it could be two xD

bright hill
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The split makes sense.

warm shell
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I just don't know the difference between the 4th and the 1st/3rd

real harness
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Same

warm shell
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maybe it's about using both at the same time

bright hill
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I think it's the ones that are shared?

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Since me/te/nous/vous on their own don't indicate which object they are.

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You need context.

real harness
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Here to anyone who speaks German

bright hill
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Looks good.

real harness
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Here in English

IMG_4910.png
warm shell
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yeah the last one seems to just be a slightly higher mastery of pronouns, being able to list them all out instead of just recognizing them in a sentence

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but technically yeah, if you master 1 and 3, 4 should just come with it

bright hill
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And knowing that they differ in the third person singular/plural goes without saying.

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They differ for all of them.

real harness
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Check

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Now one last thing what is this

IMG_4911.png
bright hill
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You wouldn't say

John said that I am free for dinner tonight.
To report what John said. Instead, you'd say:
John said that he is free for dinner tonight.

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You change their words.

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John never said 'he', John said 'I'.

tulip thicket
bright hill
warm shell
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Not 100% sure but I think you can see it as :
Discours direct = Er sagt, er habe den Film schon gesehen
Discours indirect = Er sagt mir, dass er den Film schon gesehen hat

bright hill
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In other words, are you posing the question directly (asking the person) or indirectly (wondering about what they might say, etc.)?