mr.moderino

[delicate wadi]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[hallow lynx]

I thought about it because I could buy an Amazon French textbook and fill out answers, but at the end of the day unlike in school there's no teacher to grade it. I am also out of school so I do have some free time

[iron star]

There a lot of books that have answer keys or correction books

And there are quizzes online that give corrections for example

Kwiziq is technically paid but it might be a good place to start

Most of the content is free and you get a week trial of premium after doing a couple quizzes iirc

[hallow lynx]

Sorry if confusing question

Thanks for response

Any recommended quizzes/courses online, even better if it's the same quizzes you used

[hallow lynx]

Ah thats good to know. I'm assuming this is for the online only books

[iron star]

Online books, scanned textbooks you can find online, even physical books pretty often (though a bit harder to check)
If you have a library nearby it might be worth checking if they have any! Easier to check in person and then there's no need to pay as well. Depending on where you are some libraries have a decent selection of language learning materials, though they may be a bit dated

[hallow lynx]

Thanks. What are your thoughts on AI learning

[iron star]

;chatgpt

[delicate wadi]

ChatGPT et les autres grands modèles de langage d'IA sont des outils intéressants pour l'apprentissage des langues, mais faillibles. Les informations qu'ils donnent peuvent être erronées, tout en donnant des justifications plausibles pour quelqu'un ne maîtrisant pas la langue. Il ne faut pas les utiliser comme source ultime d'information. Ils peuvent cependant aider à déconstruire une phrase en divers concepts (que vous pouvez ensuite vérifier), donner des traductions contextualisées, et simuler divers interlocuteurs.

ChatGPT and other large AI language models are interesting tools for language learning, but they are fallible. The information they provide can be incorrect while offering seemingly logical justifications to someone who does not fully master the language. They should not be used as an endpoint for information. However, they can help deconstruct a sentence into various concepts that you can then verify, provide contextualized translations, and simulate diverse conversational partners.

[iron star]

This about sums it up

There's also a huge span of what AI can refer to but usually people are referring to stuff like chatgpt

[hallow lynx]

I have found a website called Crozemaster if anyone knows it, 4 multiple choice and I pick the correct one

[worthy fable]

honestly, you can already check your work pretty easily

[hallow lynx]

I also found the site ''Le Point du FLE – A1 reading''

[worthy fable]

dictionaries for the meaning of a word/phrase and for conjugation

grammar should be mostly sticking to what you know already and you can find similar examples with reverso context or a similar site

[hallow lynx]

I know for certain that English has alot of French words.

[worthy fable]

otherwise, that's kind of what learning French just is, internalizing the rules of the language

[hallow lynx]

I hope on average English speakers have the best time learning French compared to other languages.

[hallow lynx]

It was a shock to understand the basics of French verbs Jouer means To play and not just play. Je veux jouer

[worthy fable]

anyway, i think the problem a lot of learners run into is that they're not actually reading or hearing enough French

make it habit to read something in French everyday

[hallow lynx]

Indirect and Direct Pronouns (Using the words You, It, Him, Her) really really frustrate me but hopefully I eventually understand it

[worthy fable]

a wikipedia article, a reddit post

[hallow lynx]

Wait a minute that's a good idea

I haven't been doing that. I need to push myself more in French. It's a very intimidating task because my current French is very bad

[worthy fable]

it's alright, if you don't understand much as long as you give it your attention and use a dictionary/look stuff up sometimes

[worthy fable]

something like this is actually very simple, the problem is that you're trying to understand abstracted from its actual use in the language which makes it very, very complicated

[hallow lynx]

I am saying in my head ''I him give'' ''You him give'' and it becomes an even bigger nightmare with the ''I give it to him or ''She gives it to me''

It is different because the sentence ''3 Qui reçoit cette carte postale ?'' I think means Who is receiving this post card

I believe recoit in this spot means is receiving which means you don't have to write the word est

[worthy fable]

don't do that

you're learning French, do not worry about the word order in English

you want to use your knowledge of English as leverage to learn French

[hallow lynx]

Yes, I am trying to re-translate everything I do/see in French back to English

[worthy fable]

a literal baby needs time to understand what une pomme is, but you already know what an apple is, so you can make that connection quickly

[hallow lynx]

English is all I know so thats why I translate everything

[worthy fable]

you will never learn french this way

[worthy fable]

likewise, you know lots of cognates that will help you and much of the grammar is similar, but that it is it, that is the extent that English is useful to you

[hallow lynx]

Hmm?

[worthy fable]

because French is not based on English

it has no natural correspondance to English

what you want to do is learn French as French

[hallow lynx]

Yeah that makes sense, there a lot of frustration when French wasn't directly translating into English

Or following English rules

[worthy fable]

this is a common beginner mistake of attitude which the education system does nothing to correct

basically you're frustrated that you don't already know French, but that is... the point of learning French

it's something you don't know

languages are not just the same with the words replaced

[hallow lynx]

Yup, I had to learn the hard way

[worthy fable]

there's no hard and easy way, that just is learning French

[hallow lynx]

Exactly, I'm watching Miraculous, I'll pick up on the occasional word but unless I stare down the subtitles on Netflix I don't understand anything, and even then I'm only getting the basic idea of the sentence I'm reading

[worthy fable]

that's what makes learning a language interesting and engaging, otherwise it would be pretty boring, no?

[worthy fable]

studies show watching something with subtitles in your native language basically doesn't help at all

[hallow lynx]

When I read ''Je lui donne le livre.'' How would I read/translate this in French

I physically see the words I him give the book

Technically lui means to him I think

[worthy fable]

"Je lui donne le livre" means in French... "Je lui donne le livre", if you translate it into English it means "I give him the book"

[hallow lynx]

Same with Il lui donne le livre

[hallow lynx]

Yes, but how should I mentally think it while trying to be French

[worthy fable]

you see it in context and you picture the speaker giving someone the book

[hallow lynx]

It is especially hard when you add the past participle and I start seeing m'a

[worthy fable]

when you learn a new word in English, do you have to repeat its dictionary definition with the words you already knew everytime you see it? or do you eventually recognize the word as the word

[hallow lynx]

I know it everytime I see it. Comes naturally

I don't even think about the fact that Colonel or Knight make no sense

[worthy fable]

when you learn a new word

that's just spelling dude

[hallow lynx]

I eventually recognize the word as the word

Over time it naturally becomes part of the vocabulary

[worthy fable]

yes, that's your goal in French

eventually donner will become a kind of synonym for to give, except you use it in French contexts with French grammar rather than English contexts with English grammar

[hallow lynx]

Does this mean I should stop translating in French back to English?

[worthy fable]

yes

this doesn't mean you can't use English to understand French

a bilingual dictionary or a translation of a book in French next to the original are enourmous helps

especially the dictionary, use wordreference.com

but do not try to word for word translate everything in your head

especially do not rearrange english words

"Je lui donne le livre" translates to English "I give him the book" and never "I him give the book" which makes zero sense in English

[hallow lynx]

My current schedule is watching 30 minutes (20 mins of totally spies with the language reactor extension and the auto-generated french sub titles and perfect french audio, its really hard to find the human french subtitles on full french episodes unless theres a different website) and Lou! which is human translations which is great, then I complete a busuu lesson and then stop. Can absolutely improve this

[hallow lynx]

Wait so french speakers aren't saying I him give the book? But I see the word Lui infront of Je

[worthy fable]

Dude French speakers are saying "Je lui donne le livre"

English speakers are saying "I give him the book"

no one is saying "I him give the book"

when we want to translate between French and English, we can exchange these two sentences

but at no point is anyone saying an English sentence with the wrong grammar

just like when English speakers speak we don't mentally say "Je donne lui le livre", we say "I give him the book"

[hallow lynx]

Then shouldn't Lui be after donne? I physically see Je lui donne le livre. I him give the book

[hallow lynx]

Yes I give him the book sounds natural to me

[worthy fable]

and what language do you speak?

[hallow lynx]

English all my life

[worthy fable]

ok, and what language do you want to learn?

[hallow lynx]

French. I am in a Billunigual city. I must learn French (Ontario)

[worthy fable]

ok, then you should probably worry about what a French speaker finds natural not what you find natural, since you know... you don't know French

[hallow lynx]

Correct

[worthy fable]

and in French "Je lui donne le livre" is completely natural and "Je donne lui le livre" is nonsense that not even a child would say

[hallow lynx]

The word order was confusing me as it is different from the English order

[worthy fable]

yes, it's different from English, but now your goal is to learn it in French

do not mentally swap around English words

I mean why would that even help, since the English word order is different, and the French words are already in the right position

[hallow lynx]

My guess is that it would be breaking a grammar rule

And French structure must be maintained

[worthy fable]

anyway

you should probably find a book to work through, since you're a beginner to learning languages

;begin

[delicate wadi]

Pour commencer, tu peux jeter un coup d'oeil aux nombreuses ressources publiées dans #1279421820654850162 . Tu peux poser des questions dans #salle-de-classe ou #salle-de-classe-fr, ou bien discuter en #français dans #français-débutant, #français ou #français-2. Pour finir, tu peux participer dans nos salons vocaux, que ce soit en discutant ou simplement en écoutant. D'autre part, le site Lawless French est un support précieux pour obtenir des leçons de français!

To start, you can take a look at all the resources in the #1279421820654850162 . You can ask questions in #salle-de-classe or #salle-de-classe-fr or have discussions in French in #français-débutant #français or #français-2 Additionally, you can participate in our voice channels, either by speaking or just listening. Moreover, the website Lawless French is full of precious French lessons!

https://www.lawlessfrench.com/learn-french/french-for-beginners/

[hallow lynx]

I know Lui is telling them who is receiving the action.

Will check out these books

[hallow lynx]

One day I will be a French speaker. I will not give up

[worthy fable]

that's the spirit

you have a very definite goal, since you live in a bilingual city

learning a language is all about learning something new, stretching your brain a little

that's what makes it fun and interesting