mr.moderino

[worthy salmon]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[hexed narwhal]

That's because you're looking it in isolation.

What you're concerned about is the pronoun « en ». This pronoun replaces indirect objects under the preposition « de ».

J'ai besoin de tes devoirs —> J'en ai besoin
(I have need of your work —> I have need of them)
Il a peur d'échouer —> Il en a peur
(He's fearful of failing —> He's fearful of it)
Est-ce que vous vous occuperez de vos tâches ? —> Est-ce que vous vous en occuperez ?
(Will you take care of your tasks? —> Will you take care of them?)

[distant copper]

It also replaces direct objects introduced by du/de la/un/une/des, in un/une's case, the article is repeated
Je bois de l'eau -> J'en bois
J'utilise de la farine -> J'en utilise
Je vois un enfant -> J'en vois un
Je vois une femme -> J'en vois une
Je vois des hommes -> J'en vois

tbf it's more so related to the fact un/une are numbers, you repeat the en + the number for all of them

[hexed narwhal]

The logic for « un/une » applies for numbers in general and it's understood as like an expression of quantity.

J'ai beaucoup de voitures —> J'en ai beaucoup
J'ai deux voitures —> J'en ai deux (understood as « deux de voitures »)

[lament scarab]

@iron quarry the more you immerse yourself the more natural en and y become

[iron quarry]

Also including s'en

[hexed narwhal]

That's just the reflexive

s'occuper des problèmes —> s'en occuper
Je m'en occupe
Tu t'en occupes
Il s'en occupe
Nous nous en occupons
Vous vous en occupez
Ils s'en occupent

[iron quarry]

Hmm I'm still looking at this.

[iron quarry]

Right now I'm immersing myself with Netflix Shera and Princess (Majority) and (Very few times Ladybug and Cat Noir) I am staring the subtitles down. It's frustrating secretly because it's not a word for word sub title (English is the same not a French issue its a netflix issue)

[distant copper]

tbf subtitles rarely match perfectly

[iron quarry]

Can you explain in simple terms why we would say J'en bois instead of Je bois de l'eau? Whats wrong with Je bois de l'eau

[distant copper]

it'll be the case on most media unless they're auto-translated

[hexed narwhal]

Is it a French show or is it an English show dubbed in French?

Because if it's the latter, that explains it all

Subs and dubs are made by different teams with different priorities

They will almost never match up

[distant copper]

well, this is like saying :
why say "I'm drinking some" instead of saying "I'm drinking water"

or

why say "I see him" when you can say "I see the man"

[hexed narwhal]

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just what you do when you've already mentioned it and you don't want to repeat it

[distant copper]

we shorten things because it's faster and we don't want to repeat things everytime

[iron quarry]

English show dubbed in French. Even English shows in English don't dub together on Netflix and especially Netflix animes

[hexed narwhal]

Any foreign dub will not match up with its foreign sub

Dubbing has different priorities and needs than subbing

For example, dubs have to match the lip movements of the actors; subs don't

[iron quarry]

My understanding so far is that en (j'en) (m'en) (t'en) En is the word ''It'' to replace a pronoun I think

[hexed narwhal]

Subs have to get the message across without the reader having to spend too much time reading; dubs don't

[hexed narwhal]

of it

because just 'it' will confuse you

[iron quarry]

Does it have anything to do with past experiences or memories and past tenses?

Ah of it

[distant copper]

not always though

[distant copper]

not at all

[iron quarry]

My current understanding French: ''Je mange du pain. J’en mange. English: I eat some.''

My question is how does J'en mange= I eat some

[distant copper]

although the thing has to be mentionned beforehand, just like for anything that replaces anything in langauges

[iron quarry]

I'm trying to translate the word En into English

[hexed narwhal]

You can't

[distant copper]

I mean I'm sure you know this but

translating word by word is just not the way to go about it

[hexed narwhal]

You really can't

[distant copper]

although in this case, it does match with the "some"

so I don't see why it's a problem

[iron quarry]

Ah thats the issue

[distant copper]

sure the order is different, but that always changes too

[hexed narwhal]

For example, English can drop the partitive 'some' because it can be implied: I want some milk = I want milk

you CAN NEVER DO THAT in French

« Je veux du lait » is fine, « Je veux lait » isn't

[distant copper]

yeah it sounds like cave men speech

[hexed narwhal]

There's also some English fuckery in recipient verbs that you cannot do in French

[iron quarry]

I still don't understand How Je bois de l'eau = J'en bois= I drink it. Does j'en bois mean ''I drink of it water?

[hexed narwhal]

there's also shit you can do in French that you can't do in English

[distant copper]

no like I said, it's not always "of it"

[iron quarry]

My understanding is en is a shortcut word that means of it, of them, some or any

[distant copper]

tbf idk if remembering as such is useful when just trying to read text, when writing it is though

[iron quarry]

Examples if possible

[distant copper]

I mean you have it

although, not "of them", unsure about that one

[hexed narwhal]

It can work since « en » just replaces regardless of plurality

Je m'occupe de mes affaires and Je m'occupe de mon affaire both become Je m'en occupe

[distant copper]

"of them" is mostly about people though

and "en" can't replace people

[hexed narwhal]

No, no, in English

I'm taking care of my problem –> I'm taking care of it
I'm taking care of my problems –> I'm taking care of them

[iron quarry]

Je m'en occupe= I myself of it or any occupy?

I'm guessing there

[distant copper]

s'occuper de = take care of

[hexed narwhal]

In French, you add « que » to conjunctions when what follows is a clause, you don't do that in English

[iron quarry]

And tu t'en souviens= Do you remember it but specifically You yourself of it remember?

Im guessing there

[hexed narwhal]

Après avoir pris le portable, elle est partie.
Après qu'elle avait pris le portable, elle est partie.

After having taken the phone, she left.
After she had taken the phone, she left.
*After that she had taken the phone, she left. [doesn't work]

[hexed narwhal]

You remember it

you can't translate word for word

because 'to remember something' is always « se souvenir de quelque chose »

[iron quarry]

so theres no english translation and you just put the en there to make it faster?

[hexed narwhal]

it's reflexive because it is

[olive grotto]

inb4 "s'en aller" lol

[iron quarry]

Any priority takeaways to remember/understand the en in j'en m'en and t'en?

[hexed narwhal]

SHHHHHHHH

[fossil comet]

forget about an english translation lol

[hexed narwhal]

Translation is not a 1-to-1 thing, that's the issue

[fossil comet]

this is not how you should be thinking about it

se souvenir de is not to remember yourself of

it means to remember

[olive grotto]

en is just a pronoun
the fact that it can elide with other pronouns is irrelevant and there's no reason to try to learn it with those other pronouns

[hexed narwhal]

like okay for example, the English verb 'to listen' is indirect transitive: you listen to a song. Its French equivalent, « écouter » is direct transitive: on écoute une chanson

you cannot make a one-to-one translation of that

because there's nowhere for the English preposition à to go to

[fossil comet]

yeah, en is just a pronoun and you use it when you would use a pronoun

[hexed narwhal]

You simply have to accept that each language does things the way it does

[fossil comet]

english doesn't have a pronoun for cases like this, so it takes a second to get the vibe

but it's not that "j'en ai" is better than "j'ai de l'eau". it just means "i have some" rather than "i have some water"

they're just used in different contexts

[iron quarry]

To conclude does French replace “de + noun” with “en” to speed up sentences?

[fossil comet]

it's not about speeding up sentences necessarily

[hexed narwhal]

If the object had already been stated beforehand, it does that to avoid repetition

It's not really about 'speeding up' sentences

I mean in English you go, 'You see that man? He's my neighbour' where the pronoun 'he' is replacing 'that man' because we've already introduced that noun before

[fossil comet]

also like other french pronouns it can be used even with the thing it's supposed to replace

[hexed narwhal]

There's nothing wrong by saying, 'You see that man? That man's my neighbour'

[fossil comet]

"j'en ai beaucoup d'eau" is also possible

[hexed narwhal]

It's just that the first avoids repetition because we already know the thing we're talking about (that man)

[iron quarry]

Ahhh

[hexed narwhal]

Yes but this is an emphatic thing and I don't think we should overcomplicate it

Understanding « en » first before moving onto stuff like fixed expressions and repeated pronouns is best IMO

[iron quarry]

thank you thank you i appreciate

[hexed narwhal]

Once the fundamental idea of « en » is (réglé), we can then move on

I have no idea what réglé is

it's on the tip of my tongue

SETTLED

there we go