mr.moderino

[thin hull]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

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[spark violet]

Je vais y aller aussi
Je (I) vais (am going) y aller (there) aussi (too)
But "J'y vais aussi" is also correct

[mint forge]

@worthy fern "y" is an object pronoun
it replaces a object (what the verb is acting on) introduced with the preposition "à"

je vais à Paris (I'm going to Paris) => j'y vais (I'm going there / I'm going)
English doesn't have such pronouns, and either uses a generic object like "there" or cuts the object entirely.
"je vais là aussi" kinda works but you would much rather use the object pronoun.

[wheat mortar]

Whoa whoa whoa, that's a different meaning lol

« Je vais y aller aussi » would be expressing the future

[mint forge]

-# bertie is adressing senmaky's reply

[spark violet]

oops alors

[mint forge]

more info: https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/y-adverbial-pronoun/

[meager hinge]

Huh

T'as oublié que aller c'est go

Je vais y aller = i am going to go there

[spark violet]

Understood Michiru fan

Now I'm gonna leave the server

[meager hinge]

? Lol

[worthy fern]

@mint forge Oops I spent days in Francais-debutant and forgot about this place. I spent 20 minutes on chatgpt after heavy confusion. I've come to the conclusion that theres soemthing called object pronouns. I didn't know what an object pronoun was so chatgpt gave this example ''In "I see the dog," "the dog" is the object because it’s receiving the action of being seen.
You can replace "the dog" with an object pronoun, like "it". So, "I see it".'' Helped slightly. Apparently the sentence J'y vais aussi literally means ''I there going also'' which confused me alot!

[mint forge]

yeah
English does have objects, as explained by CG, but not object pronouns. If you want to replace it, you either use something generic, like "it" or "there", or remove it entirely

I'm highlighting the object in each sentence
Je vais à Paris => I'm going to Paris
You could replace the object with the object pronoun "y" (because "à Paris" is introduced with "à")
J'y vais => I'm going

Object pronouns go before the verb in French.

what are you confused about regarding this explanation?

[worthy fern]

Specifically with the whole ''I there going also'' ''J'y vais aussi''

Same with ''Il me voit (He sees me)
Je te donne ça (I give you that)''

[mint forge]

it just means "I'm going", or, if you really want to add an object "I'm going there"

[worthy fern]

Yes I'd like to add the object

[mint forge]

I mean it translates to both

[worthy fern]

So J'y vais aussi= I'm going? So what does the y and aussi mean then in the sentence

[mint forge]

"aller" has to say where you are going in French. You can't just say "Je vais"

[worthy fern]

ok

[mint forge]

so it's just like "I'm going there" where "y" means "there", but in English you'd usually drop the "there" because it doesn't add information

in French you have to use an object pronoun instead, and those go before the noun

[worthy fern]

Yeah and thats extremely confusing for me

As showecased in '' ''Il me voit (He sees me)
Je te donne ça (I give you that)''''

So j'y vais aussi= I there going also, but french structures it as I am going there also?

[mint forge]

the word order in both languages is different

[worthy fern]

im extremely used to the english word order

[mint forge]

When you're using a noun as object, it goes after the verb
il voit Thomas => he sees Thomas
il => he
voit => sees
Thomas => Thomas

When you're using an object pronoun as object, it goes before the verb
il me voit => he sees me
il => he
voit => sees (word order is different in both languages in this case)
me => me

hum...

[worthy fern]

Yeah the object pronoun going before the verb is extremely confusing to me

Extremely uncomfortable

If the words '' "me," "him," "her," "it," "them"'' are at the end of the sentence it becomes an object pronoun and before the verb?

So ''Tu l'aimes'' is good french? ''You like her''

[mint forge]

that's right

@wheat mortar do you have a better explanation? I'm trying to find another way to frame it

[wheat mortar]

For what

I just entered sorry

[worthy fern]

Literally any frame to frame it is fine, there is a 100% chance I will not correct you

[mint forge]

they're confused by objects turning into object pronouns, and also going before the verb when that's the case

[wheat mortar]

Ah okay

[wheat mortar]

If there's no preposition, sure

Okay so here's the gist of it

An object pronoun is basically an object that is, well, in the form of a pronoun. Pronouns are like this small word that can refer to people or items.

'I see Mark' can be turned to 'I see him'
where him = Mark
With me so far?

[worthy fern]

Yes. ''I see mark'' is a noun correct? and ''I see him'' is a pronoun?

[wheat mortar]

Exactly

[worthy fern]

excuse me object pronoun

[wheat mortar]

Noun/pronoun is a type of word
Object is a function

just to clear that out of the way

I see Mark
Mark = a type of word called a noun that is acting as an object

[worthy fern]

i found a list that said this ''me – me (used for "I" as the object of the action)
te – you (informal singular)
le – him, it (masculine singular)
la – her, it (feminine singular)
l' – him, her, it (for words starting with a vowel sound, masculine or feminine)
nous – us
vous – you (formal or plural)
les – them (plural, masculine or feminine)'' If I see any of these words or use any of these words to end my sentence, I have to put it behind the verb? (A verb is a mental or physical action, I had to re-learn what a verb was too)

[wheat mortar]

I see him
him = a type of word called a pronoun that is acting as an object

[wheat mortar]

Right but we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves

[worthy fern]

Je le vois (I see him)

[wheat mortar]

Right okay so in English when we turn an object noun into an object pronoun, we just change the type but we don't change its position

I see Mark / I see him
Both objects are located at the end

[worthy fern]

Yes! Im used to that system

[wheat mortar]

In French, however, when an object noun becomes an object pronoun, the object pronoun moves to before the verb in question

Je vois Marc -> Je le vois

[worthy fern]

I see marc, English is same. Je Le vois= I see him

French version

Je vois marc. Marc is at end, and Marc is a noun and not object pronoun so order stays same as english

Le vois ''I see him'' Le means him in this scenario and is the last word of the sentence

So it becomes the object pronoun i think and becomes Je Le vois

I see him

[wheat mortar]

Right so you'll never see « *je vois le », always « je le vois »

got that?

Now we get to « j'y vais aussi »

[worthy fern]

slightly makes more sense

yes J'y vais aussi is the big bad wolf

The ''J'y'' part is incredibly confusing. Never seen a word combinaiton like that

[mint forge]

-# note
-# "le" has multiple functions. It can be an object pronoun, in which case it's never going to be after the verb
-# but it can also be an article, which is a word used to introduce a noun, similar to "the" in English, in which case you can have stuff like "Je vois le soleil"

[worthy fern]

He sees the sun

I don't think soleil is a object pronoun, its a noun (its a thing) so it goes at end and same as english

[wheat mortar]

Let's start at the very basic. The basic structure is « je vais aussi (I am also going) ».
The issue here is that the French sentence is grammatically incomplete; it's missing an object. To where are you going? In English, we can infer things but in French you can't do that. What I mean by that is, say, this sentence:
'Are you going to the market? Yes, I am', that's complete in English. We can infer that, yes, I am going to the market. We don't need to repeat it because it's already implied/inferred.

In French, however, we can't do that. You cannot infer something. Therefore, we have to repeat the whole thing:
« Tu vas au marché ? Oui, je vais au marché. »

With me so far?

[worthy fern]

Tu vas au marche= You are going to the market?

Yes I am going to the market

Makes sense

[wheat mortar]

Now for the last bit

[worthy fern]

Ok I won't say ''Je vais''

[wheat mortar]

that's not it hold on

Object pronouns are often used when we don't want to keep repeating the noun we are referring to.
'Do you see Mark? Yes, I see Mark.'
That's grammatically correct, sure, but we both know that the topic is about Mark so for the second part, we switch the object noun with an object pronoun:
'Do you see Mark? Yeah, I see him.'

The same rule applies to the French. In this phrase:
« Tu vas au marché ? Oui, je vais au marché. »
We already know that the topic is about going to the market. We already know the destination so we'd rather switch that out with an object pronoun. This is where « y » comes in. « y » is an object pronoun that basically denotes location. « dans le parc, dans la cuisine, au marché, en train », « y » covers them all. Since « au marché » denotes location, we can switch it out with its equivalent object pronoun « y » :
« Tu vas au marché ? Oui, j'y vais. »

It functionally behaves like « je vois Marc -> je le vois ». We turn the object noun (au marché) into an object pronoun (y) and move it to the left side of the verb (j'y vais and not *je vais y)

[worthy fern]

So it's not a object pronoun but behaves exactly like a pronoun pronoun

[wheat mortar]

It is an object pronoun

It's just that there is no English equivalent of « y »

[worthy fern]

I think when you say ''Oui, j'y vais'' You say Yes, I am going there if my translations are correct

Oh so y is unique to french

But I think its most similar to the word there?

[wheat mortar]

so while it is an object pronoun in French, it's translated as an adverb of place in English:
'Are you going to the market? Yes, I am going there.'

[worthy fern]

Oui, J'y vais

[wheat mortar]

French object pronouns are also larger in scope than English ones so when it comes to translation, we get into bit of a pickle

[worthy fern]

So what is the closet translation of y to english if you had to give one

[wheat mortar]

because things won't necessarily translate in a clean fashion

[wheat mortar]

Honestly, depends on the context

[worthy fern]

Afk for an hour and a half. I have to brush my teeth. Thank you for help so far. I may be ahead of myself learning object pronouns at my current level of french but might as well learn it so it's less confusing in future.

[wheat mortar]

[You don't need to know this FOR NOW, I'm just explaining why translation is context-dependent]

As I've said here, « y »'s function is to replace anything denoting going to or being at a place. However, « y » can also be used to replace any inanimate indirect object followed by the preposition « à ». Therefore, if I have something like « je réponds à la question (I'm responding to the question) », I can use « y » to replace « à la question » to become « J'y réponds (I'm responding to it) ». Translating « y » as 'there' would make no sense here.

[mint forge]

thanks for the help, I can take it from there if you need to

[mint forge]

in this context, you might translate it using "there", but for the most part I don't recommend using English as support for this one.
The reason is, "y" is a tool used by the language for various purposes, and is directly based on how the language logic works. This is the case for a lot of small words like prépositions (à, de, y, en), whose purpose is to link stuff together in the sentence using the logic of the language, and does not apply to other languages.
For instance, "y" is deeply related to "à", whose own role can't directly be translated to English. Places are just one of the many purposes. "il y a" is also an idiomatic expression, and "y" can't be directly translated either.