nathanw46 | French - Learn French in a friendly community! | Page 1

golden isleBOT Dec 10, 2024, 1:26 AM

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Please be patient

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last dove Dec 10, 2024, 2:09 AM

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I'm going to split this into « qui, que (subject, direct object) », « à laquelle/sur laquelle/pour lesquels (indirect object) », and then « dont, près duquel (exception to the indirect object, complex prepositions)

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Relative pronouns are used to replace a noun in a subordinate clause to create complex sentences. The principle is that these two clauses have a shared noun between them and the relative pronoun acts to replace the shared noun in the subordinate clause so that we don't have repetition. Complex sentences are split into a main clause and a subordinate clause. Basically, what we're going to change is just the subordinate; we keep the structure of the main the same as it is.

Part 1: qui/que (subject/direct object)
« qui » is used if the noun acts as a subject in the subordinate, « que » if it acts as a direct object. For example, let's say that we have these three clauses that we're going to make complex sentences with.
(1) L’homme est notre professeur.
(2) L’homme est gentil.
(3) Tu vois l’homme.
We'll say that (1) is the main clause while (2) and (3) are our subordinate clauses.

Let's try to make (1) and (2) into a complex sentence.
L’homme est notre professeur + L’homme est gentil
The noun shared between the two clauses is the noun « l'homme ». Look at its role in the subordinate clause. What does it function as? The subject. Therefore, we use « qui ». We then move that pronoun next to the noun it replaces in the main clause. We do this because relative pronouns are placed after the noun they replace. We will then have:
« L’homme qui est gentil est notre professeur. »

Let's try to make (1) and (3) into a complex sentence.
L’homme est notre professeur + Tu vois l’homme
The same principle works here. Let's look at the shared noun between the two clauses. What does that noun act as in the subordinate? The object, so we use « que ». We do the exact same steps as before: we take the relative pronoun, put it next to the noun it changes, to get:
« L’homme que tu vois est notre professeur. »

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Part 2: préposition + lequel (indirect object)
In Part 1, we talked about subject and direct object relative pronouns. Now, we'll talk about indirect object relative pronouns. Indirect objects are objects that are preceded with an object. Look at these four sentences:
« Tu parles à Louis »
« Il se bat pour ses amis »
« Je m'assois sur une chaise »
« Nous nous luttons contre nos faiblesses »
As you can see, all of the objects of these phrases have two elements to them: the object in question (Louis, ses amis, une chaise, nos faiblesses), and their prepositions (à, pour, sur, contre). Both act as a unit so you can't separate one from the other. The principle of indirect object relative pronouns is the same as relative pronouns in general where you replace the shared noun with a relative pronoun. Our relative pronoun here is « lequel/laquelle/lesquels/lesquelles ». The key difference here is that there is a preposition preceding the relative pronoun and that the relative pronoun now agrees with the object it replaces in gender and number. If it replaces a feminine singular object, it's « laquelle »; if it replaces a masculine plural, it's « lesquels ».

queen flower Dec 10, 2024, 2:22 AM

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Thats a lot

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thanks

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I got some studying to do lol

last dove Dec 10, 2024, 2:27 AM

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Let's look at these four clauses:
(1) Les batailles sont sauvages.
(2) Je participe aux batailles.
(3) L'ordinateur appartient à mon père.
(4) J'ai des problèmes avec l'ordinateur.

Let's try to make (1) and (2) into a complex sentence.
Les batailles sont sauvages + je participe aux batailles
Let's go through the same steps as before. The shared noun here is the noun « batailles » As we can see, there's a preposition before the object, « à ». Remember that « aux » is « à + les ». Since indirect objects are a unit, we also treat its structure as one unit: « à + lequel ». Before we continue, there are two things to do. Firstly, « lequel » must agree with the noun it replaces. « batailles » is a feminine plural noun so we use « lesquelles ». Secondly, the « le/la/les » in « lequel/laquelle/lesquels/lesquelles » are definite articles, and remember that definite articles contract with « à » so we have « à + lesquelles => auxquelles ». Finally, we move the whole thing next the object in the main clause. With that, we can finally have our complex phrase:
« Les batailles auxquelles je participe sont sauvages. »

Let's do the same for (3) and (4).
L'ordinateur appartient à mon père + j'ai des problèmes avec l'ordinateur
Let's go through the same steps as before. There's a preposition before the object, « avec ». We replace the shared noun with « lequel » make it agree. « ordinateur » is a masculine singular noun so we keep it as is: « lequel ». The definite article doesn't contract with « avec » so we already have a complete structure: « avec lequel ». Move that next to the object it replaces in the main clause and we have our phrase:
« L'ordinateur avec lequel j'ai des problèmes appartient à mon père. »

queen flower Dec 10, 2024, 2:28 AM

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ooo there is more

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tysm

last dove Dec 10, 2024, 2:34 AM

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Part 3: dont, près duquel (« de » and complex prepositions)
Of course, it wouldn't be French without an exception and this is one. You see, the preposition « de » is so special that we even have a relative pronoun just for it: « dont ». It's only for « de »; you'll never see this with any other preposition. « dont » is special because unlike the previous structure with indirect objects, the preposition disappears. For example, let's look at these two clauses:
(1) La mémoire parle de mon enfance.
(2) Je me souviens de la mémoire.
Let's say we're following the steps from before. We find the shared noun (la mémoire) and the preposition that precedes it (de) and then we treat them as a single unit: « de la mémoire ». If we were following it as before to the end, we would have « La mémoire de laquelle je me souviens parle de mon enfance », right? Well… no. You see, the preposition disappears because « dont » changes both the preposition and the object it replaces. Both are eaten by « dont ». In that case, we'll have:
« La mémoire dont je me souviens parle de mon enfance. »
There's no preposition, no « lequel » agreeing to the noun, just… « dont ».

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You'd think that'd be the end of it, but again, French being French, even the exception has an exception. As it turns out, the preposition « de » features in a lot of prepositional phrases. These are complex prepositions. I'll show you three of them: « en face de (in front of/across from), près de (close to), à côté de (next to) ». As you can see, it's not just « de » but there's other elements behind it. If we were to use « dont » as before » we would destroy the structure of this complex preposition. Because of that, we default back to the general structure of the other prepositions: « préposition + lequel ». I'll show you the difference by using two examples.
(1) L'arbre est grand
(2) Michel a parlé de l'arbre
(3) Émilie est assise à côté de l'arbre

Let's try to make (1) and (2) into a complex sentence.
L'arbre est grand + Michel a parlé de l'arbre
The shared noun is « l'arbre » and the preposition is « de ». The preposition is alone, it doesn't have other elements behind it, so we'll just use « dont » which eliminates the preposition as well. We'll then have:
« L'arbre dont Michel a parlé est grand ».

Let's do the same with (1) and (3).
L'arbre est grand + Émilie est assise à côté de l'arbre
It's the same principle as before, but wait, the preposition here is complex. It's not just « de » but it's « à côté de ». Because of that, we default to the general structure so that the complex preposition is kept. We find the shared noun, « l'arbre », and we replace it with « lequel ». It's a masculine singular noun so we do nothing to it. As before, the bit at the start acts like a definite article. What happens if you combine « de » and « le » ? You get « du ». Because of that, combining « de » and « lequel » gives us « duquel ». We will then have:
« L'arbre à côté duquel Émilie est assise est grand. »

last dove Dec 10, 2024, 2:45 AM

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queen flower Thats a lot

Alright I'm done. Fortunately someone asked the same exact question yesterday so all I had to do was copy paste and then translate it

vernal skiff Dec 10, 2024, 3:39 AM

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mon dieu bertiebear, tu es incroyable

last dove Dec 10, 2024, 3:52 AM

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@queen flower In case you want to practise, I've made some questions for you. Give me the relative pronoun and then the complete phrase.
(1) Je parle avec beaucoup de gens + beaucoup de gens aiment voyager
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(2) La table est belle + tu achètes la table
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(3) J'ai acheté le livre + tu aimes le livres
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(4) Le maire travaillait avec moi + le maire vient de démissionner
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(5) Le pays durera + je me bats pour le pays
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(6) Léona travaille à la banque + je me dirige vers la banque
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(7) La fille est ma camarade de classe + tu parles de la fille
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(8) La maison est vendue + tu travailles en face de la maison
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase:
(9) Le livre parle des inégalités dans la société + tu penses au livre
Relative pronoun:
Full phrase: