jowiltyk

[rigid sundial]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

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[spring quarry]

has

on a eu mean we had

conjugated in the passé composé

[wind ice]

is there a root word that eu comes from?

[spring quarry]

avoir

very irregular

[wind ice]

oh?

[spring quarry]

yeah

like how suis comes from être

[wind ice]

isnt a in "on a eu" already avoir?

[spring quarry]

so with passé composé, there are 3 parts. the subject: “on” in this situation. the auxiliaire: “a” which comes from avoir. every sentence using passé composé has an auxilliary verb before the main verb. most of the time its avoir. the auxilliary is conjugated to the present tense on the subject (ex. tu as eu, j’ai eu, il/elle/on a eu, nous avons eu, etc). for the ones that dont use avoir (state change verbs is how i was taught it. went down (descendre), went up (monter), etc) use the verb être conjugated to the subject (ex. je suis monté, tu es monté, il/elle/on est monté, etc.). the 3rd part of passé composé is the main verb. each verb group (-er, -ir, -re) has set conjugations (with exceptions, like être, avoir, aller, etc.) that i can give if you like but this is already an essay

for some examples, j’ai mangé, tu es tombé, il a perdu, je suis allé

[wind ice]

this is so confusing

im trying to process this

so eu is basically like saying "you/ i/ etc have had -"?

[spring quarry]

it is confusing

yes

so « j’ai eu » means « i had ». « tu as eu » means « you had »

[wind ice]

ahh okay

that makes it simpler

[spring quarry]

i tried to explain the whole tense in its entirety lol

[wind ice]

but it has to be conjugated with "avoir" right? so you cant say tu eu or something

[wind ice]

haha no worries it helps me understand

[spring quarry]

correct

most verbs use avoir

like to say “i ate” you would say “j’ai mangé”

[wind ice]

ah right, except the exceptions of verbs using etre

[spring quarry]

yes

theres an acromym used to learn the verbs that use etre. but its brutal. “Dr & Mrs Vandertrampp”

[wind ice]

in that case itll just be "je suis mort/ t'es entré" since its already in past tense?

[wind ice]

oh yeah i still have no idea what it stands for 😭

[spring quarry]

i dont even know all of them💀. i just know on hearing if its etre or avoir

[spring quarry]

yeah those are both right

[wind ice]

LMAO

[wind ice]

ahh okay

merci beaucul blackthorn

joking

[spring quarry]

MDR

theres that stupid acronym

[wind ice]

oh wow thanks

hopefully it doesnt get forgotten in ym gallery

ill favourite it 😆

[spring quarry]

lol

just practice and you wont need it

i cant wait to have to explain to someone when to use passé composé vs imparfait

[wind ice]

oh god i just started with imparfait

[spring quarry]

lol

have fun

[wind ice]

so not fun

[spring quarry]

there are like 10 past tenses

plus like 10 future tenses too

😭

[wind ice]

oh god

[analog star]

Dude c’mon, don’t lie like that 🥲

« eu » is the past participle of avoir, same as how « parlé » is the past participle of parler

[spring quarry]

i just didnt word it like that😭

[analog star]

« on a eu » is structurally the same as ‘we have had’

[spring quarry]

it was just always forcefed into my head to not translate it like that

[analog star]

The passé composé can be used to translate the present perfect but not always

I mean, it started out like that

[spring quarry]

thats why i was taught to not translate. “it can create bad habits”. i did agree when he said that tho

[analog star]

Given that he only asked about « eu » and not the other two past participles (the ones bolded) « passé, réussi », I think he was just asking about that

It’s a valid question though because it wasn’t bolded like the rest

[hearty silo]

There's only one past conjugation you need to know + one participle per verb 👀

So that's a bit misleading

French generally has less used tenses than English & they're fairly regular aside from the present

Even the present is still pretty regular but it's by far the most irregular tense

And only 3 future tenses total, one of which isn't used, and one other which isn't even a true tense + only uses the present conjugation, effectively making it only one future tense to know, so idk where you got 10 from

Every tense you'll need to know to be able to conjugate any tense (except literary/unused tenses) is here, and if you know "future" (futur simple) + imparfait you know 100% of everything you need for conditional and vice versa

[analog star]

Merci Albatros pour avoir expliqué ce que j'ai voulu expliquer avant que mon portable éteigne :)

[wind ice]

ahh dacc

[wind ice]

c pas grave, j'ai compris a la fin haha

[analog star]

The past participle is used for most past tenses where it's auxiliary verb + past participel

[wind ice]

im not sure i understand. is the past tense not just "j'ai --"?

comme "j'ai manger"

[analog star]

J'ai mangé yes

Basically, the passé composé is made of two parts: the auxiliary verb (avoir) plus a past participle

J'ai mangé
=> ai = avoir (auxiliary)
=> mangé = manger (past participle)

If you have time for some light theory, I can explain more in depth about this system but that's the gist of it

[wind ice]

right, still need to work on that

[analog star]

The conjugated verb is the auxiliary and so that one's the one that changes.
J'ai mangé / Tu as mangé / Il a mangé / Nous avons mangé / Vous avez mangé / Ils ont mangé
Notice how the auxiliary changes according to the subject but not the past participle? That's a characteristic of « avoir » auxiliaries.

[wind ice]

yeah sure, im trying to squeeze as much information rn

[analog star]

You used the passé composé here: « J'ai compris »

[wind ice]

je vais a paris en 2 jours..

[wind ice]

ah okay, so only the subject changes (je, tu, etc), while the verb doesnt change?

[analog star]

Every verb conjugation carries two pieces of information: (1) the personal information (subject, number, tense, etc) and (2) the meaning information. Take this sentence: « Tu manges ».
The personal information here is that « manges » takes the second-person (tu/vous), singular (tu), present tense (manges). The meaning information is that the verb « manger » means 'to eat'. With me so far?

[wind ice]

ouais

[analog star]

By that logic, we can look at something like « nous faisions » where we have the personal information of first-person (je/nous), plural (nous) and imperfect (faisions), and the meaning information of 'to do'

In compound tenses, that dual identity gets split.

The personal information is held by the auxiliary verb (avoir/être) while the meaning information is held by the past participle (mangé, fait, fini, parlé, compris, etc)

For example, in the sentences « tu as compris, il a compris », the only thing changing here is the personal information so only « avoir » changes; « compris » doesn't.

[wind ice]

ah okay, so it kinda works in the way that "avoir" and the subject carries the information, rather than the verb?

[analog star]

If you're a bit savvy, you might be wondering why with « être » verbs the past participle does change. Does that mean that the meaning info also changes? Well, past participles are originally adjectives – and they can still be used as adjectives – so when it comes into contact with « être », the past participle changes functionally into an adjective. It still maintains a meaning information but is also agreeing with the subject in gender and number.

[analog star]

Well the personal stuff (conjugation) is carried by the auxiliary, not the main verb

[wind ice]

unlike in english whereby the verb carries the information (eg liked, likes)

[analog star]

The main verb is there just for meaning

[wind ice]

ahh okay

[analog star]

Exactly though the present perfect also has this

[wind ice]

i think i understand better

[analog star]

'I have spoken, you have spoken, he has spoken'

same rule

[wind ice]

ahh okay

[wind ice]

i understand now

god the grammer in french is pretty tough

[analog star]

The key thing to keep in mind is this 'auxiliary + past participle' thing because it forms almost half of all French tenses

honestly

[wind ice]

thats etre/ avoir + pp verb right?

depending on the vanddertramps verb

[analog star]

There are only five tenses that don't have this structure and four of them (imparfait, futur simple, conditionnel présent, subjonctif présent) have some relation with the present which is why Albatros stressed mastering the present

Each of these five have their own past versions which is formed the same way as the passé composé

For example, the passé composé – the past version of the présent – is basically the auxiliary (avoir/être) conjugated in the present plus the past participle

[wind ice]

oh yeah i just learned the imparfait and realised they its now the verb that changes

cant wait to learn the other...

[analog star]

The plus-que-parfait – the past version of the imparfait – is the same principle but differently conjugated: It's still auxiliary plus past participle, but the auxiliary is in the imparfait

Once you realise this, tense conjugation becomes way simpler

Just throwing it out there

as a test

[wind ice]

the what now😭

[analog star]

The conditionnel passé (past conditional) is the past version of the conditionnel présent (present conditional). How would this tense be conjugated?

[wind ice]

hoping it comes soon haha, gotta practice

[analog star]

Follow the pattern I mentioned above…

[wind ice]

oh

[analog star]

You don't have to worry about it now, the point here is that half of all French tenses is just some variation of 'auxiliary + past participle' so once you get the hang of that, you'll automatically understand the logic of half of all French tenses

[wind ice]

present conditional so itll be je/ tu parlerais, il parlerait, nous parleraient?

[analog star]

Close! Remember that it's only for the auxiliary

so it's auxiliary in present conditional plus past participle

[wind ice]

j'ai parlerais?

[analog star]

parler at conditional present: je parlerais, tu parlerais, il parlerait, nous parlerions, vous parleriez, ils parleraient
(avoir = j'aurais, tu aurais, il aurait, nous aurions, vous auriez, ils auraient)
so the conjugation is: j'aurais parlé, tu aurais parlé, il aurait parlé, nous aurions parlé, vous auriez parlé, ils auraient parlé

Notice the pattern again: auxiliary + past participle

[wind ice]

ohh right, i got mixed up with nous and ils again

[analog star]

I don't want you learning this tense yet

[wind ice]

oh?

[analog star]

I'm showing it only to show that this pattern is everywhere

[wind ice]

ahh okay

[analog star]

auxiliary + past participle

You don't conjugate the past participle, only the auxiliary verb

[wind ice]

i do see it now

[analog star]

Remember, past participles are adjectives and so they don't conjugate

The real verb is the auxiliary verb

Once you realise that, object placement will be easy

[wind ice]

only really happens to avoir and etre verbs though right? because only these 2 are used to conjugate other verbs

[analog star]

Negation as well

[analog star]

Yup, these are the only two auxiliaries

They're only there for conjugation

[wind ice]

ahh okay

that makes alot of sense now

still need to work on verb conjugation though, thanks so much bertie!

[analog star]

Oh some help for you for the passé composé/imparfait

[wind ice]

oh yeah sure

[analog star]

You can read this article for full details but the gist is this:
If we are talking about an action, something that happens a few times and well-defined, it's passé composé.
If we are talking about a period, something that takes time or repeats again and again habitually, it's imparfait

[wind ice]

hmm ill check it out

[analog star]

« Quand je marchais dans la rue, j'ai vu une souris. »
Walking (marcher) is a period in which an action (voir) happens.

[wind ice]

im not very clear, isnt passe compose something you use for something that happened once, like j'ai mange

[wind ice]

ohh that makes sense now

[analog star]

Not once but more like well-defined

[wind ice]

ahh okay

[analog star]

« J'ai mangé du pain »
–> You're talking about the few times you ate bread in the past (well-defined).

« Je mangeais du pain »
–> You're talking about the period in the past during which you ate bread again and again (habitual).

[wind ice]

isnt that in the imparfait though?

[analog star]

Basically it happened over and over again to the point where it all melded into one undefined period

[wind ice]

ah okay

i think im not that good yet ill definitely revisit this when im improved 😅

[hearty silo]

or just you're talking about the period of time while you were eating

[spring quarry]

im not being exact, just dramatizing things a bit to make it funny

[hearty silo]

Okay, that really wasn't clear from your message ^^ there are lots of learners who genuinely imagine similar things and it can easily discourage them

[spring quarry]

yeah sorry. there are a lot but not many are used. some are only literary, etc. but i like sarcasm. i should probably say that lol

[hearty silo]

Yeah I generally like exaggeration as well, just this one feels a lil too real for me lol

I guess I've dealt with too many pessimistic learners