le_chef_

[inland pumice]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[tardy bear]

It's harder to tell when it comes from genderless languages such as english for example

For new words, I guess it depends on the usage.

[steep flame]

I have a thing I wrote up abt this one sec

[vivid knot]

We’ve definitely had some in-depth discussions about this in the past

[tardy bear]

sometimes we try to attribute a gender based on analogy or etymology

[tardy bear]

But for instance we say "un nugget" for a single chicken piece while we say "une pépite" for gold. So ... it's complicated.

[desert jewel]

I've always said "une nugget" because I associated it with -ette words as a child and never stopped, but I'm the exception lol

[steep flame]

Une croquette

[tardy bear]

I used to say "une" as well, thinking about "pépite" until someone dared to correct me

[desert jewel]

you make a change when people correct you? I don't lol

[tardy bear]

Well if they're right, yes

[desert jewel]

what makes them right?

[tardy bear]

The consensus

[desert jewel]

fair

[vivid knot]

hmmm consensus

[desert jewel]

yeah there's not always one but

[vivid knot]

there are plenty of words where there really isn't consensus
and where it could be argued (generally for historical reasons) that the consensus is wrong

[desert jewel]

covid

[steep flame]

My job counselor the other day was French and I was VERY aware of it considering she kept saying "un job"

[tardy bear]

And if there isn't, I'm dying on my hill

[torpid gorge]

hey thanks, so in gender languages there's some kind of cognitive senses with how a noun should be gendered.

[vivid knot]

I used to know someone who said LA ketchup (parce que c'est une sauce)

[desert jewel]

that makes sense

[vivid knot]

There's basically a bunch of different ways to assign gender
And they sort of fight it out for dominance when a new word is added to a language

[torpid gorge]

In this category you've given(merci), is there a greater proportion or rank than other aspects? I think French cares a lot on pronunciations

[steep flame]

Natives usually have a "sense" of gender for a word, yeah. There are a good handful of words where people will disagree or will use something that varies from the general consensus because their sense of gender is a bit different (more common with words that come up less often or are recent in the language)

[steep flame]

Anything that's relevant can play a part, it just depends on what ends up catching on. Usually something like a topic gendering (la Wii) will be pretty universal, some things are by default one certain gender (languages being masculine), but after that it's mostly just a mess

[torpid gorge]

hmm like also in regional as well? I can't figure out exact noun but maybe some gender is different in Quebec French and mainland French

[vivid knot]

sound sometimes helps to determine gender, but much less so than in, say, Italian or Spanish
certain endings are almost exclusively associated with one gender (-ité, -ette, -euse), but even those aren't necessarily ALWAYS predictable
other sounds really give no indication (un chef, vs. une cheffe - same sounds two different genders, to take an example from your nickname)

[steep flame]

Yes, un job vs une job, le covid vs la covid in general. Even within the same country or region you can have some variation (le bus/la bus)

[steep flame]

Using something based on human genders is a bit misleading tbf since it usually matches the person's gender if it's a human-specific term

[vivid knot]

fair enough, it's just an example that popped into my head

[steep flame]

Ya

[desert jewel]

social variations are more important than geographical ones here imo

"la covid" will tend to be used by more conservative people who care about what the Académie had to say about it, while others might stick to "le covid"

although both are attested throughout the social spectrum of course

speaking for France only

[steep flame]

In quebec it's pretty much 100% la covid

[vivid knot]

le toilette vs. la toilette I find to be a bit more correlated socio-economically

[desert jewel]

le toilette ??

[steep flame]

Didn't ur dad say that

[vivid knot]

although some people seem to use "le toilette" for the device and "la toilette" for the place

my father and sister-in-law both say le toilette

[desert jewel]

I've heard the feminine and the plural, but never masculine singular

dang

[steep flame]

Oh maybe i mixed yall up

[vivid knot]

and we've been having toilet issues at work recently and I've discovered I actually have a bunch of coworkers who say le toilette lol

[desert jewel]

in my family we say "le WC"

(pronounced vécé)

[torpid gorge]

wow this is really interesting

[steep flame]

Going in voice chat bois

[vivid knot]

we have a wooded voice chat ?

like panneling and shit?

nice

enjoy a cigar and whiskey while you're there

[desert jewel]

ah because of vécé lol

I just got it

"je vais au WC" ≠ "je vais en VC"

[steep flame]

Whisky is good
Cigars are stinky

[desert jewel]

is that the new roses are red

[vivid knot]

on my school's campus we used to have only two buildings and the buildings were named "VA" and "VB"
well... we built a new building…
so we call it le bâtiment C

[desert jewel]

mdr

[steep flame]

Sometimes genders pop out of misunderstandings as well

Like people thought covid referred to the virus and defaulted to masc for that reason in france

Well

[vivid knot]

like for children

[steep flame]

Not only for that reason but it was a very common one

[desert jewel]

anyone remember when it was just "le coronavirus" ?

that only lasted for the first few months

[vivid knot]

pepperidge farm remembers

[desert jewel]

qué