#bobthenerd10
brazen wharf
paper saffron
im not certain how to phrase a question like this in google :(
ive tried searching "anterior version of passé composé" among other search terms, but it just brings up the passé antérieur
im not sure if that's because there ISN'T an anterior version of the passé composé, or if it's just my search engine being funky ;;xx
cedar nest
Well that's because you have a misconception: the plus-que-parfait is not the past version of the imparfait, the plus-que-parfait is the past version of the passé composé. There, you have a parallel: Just like how the plus-que-parfait is anterior to the passé composé, the passé antérieur is anterior to the passé simple, so:
passé composé = passé simple
plus-que-parfait = passé antérieur
paper saffron
wha? a few of the websites told me that the plus-que-parfait was the anterior version of the imparfait, shoot ;;xx
apologies!!
paper saffron
https://www.assistancescolaire.com/eleve/5e/francais/reviser-une-notion/connaitr...
OH what im referring to is at the bottom of the page
it should be highlighted..? but maybe not-
- le plus-que-parfait exprime l'antériorité par rapport à une action à l'imparfait.
here we go!!
cedar nest
There needs to be some definitions before we tackle this
paper saffron
does antériorité not mean what i think it means?
cedar nest
Because the imparfait concerns habits and background whereas the pqp and the passé composé both describe action, we'd rather think of the pqp as being the past version of the passé composé
So, the pqp can be the past version of the imparfait, but it's much better to think it in terms of the pqp being an action before the passé composé
Qu’est-ce que le plus-que-parfait ?
Le plus-que-parfait est un temps du passé. Il précise qu’une action s’est déroulée avant une autre qui a déjà eu lieu dans le passé. Cette action peut être exprimée avec un passé composé, un imparfait ou un passé simple.
Qu’est-ce que le plus-que-parfait ?
Le plus-que-parfait est employé dans un récit au passé (en principe à l’imparfait, au passé composé ou au passé simple), pour renvoyer à des faits, situations et actions qui ont eu lieu avant le moment du passé que l’on raconte.
https://francais.lingolia.com/fr/grammaire/les-temps/le-plus-que-parfait#a-quand-employer-le-plus-que-parfait
paper saffron
oh um
cedar nest
paper saffron
thats a LOT to read, goodness fhskfhs
cedar nest
This image is what I'm getting at basically
paper saffron
> - le plus-que-parfait exprime l'antériorité par rapport à une action à l'impar...
is this quote wrong?
or is it an edge case?
cedar nest
is this quote wrong?
It's not wrong, it's just that it's more useful to consider the contrast as between the passé composé and the plus-que-parfait instead
paper saffron
hmm
but then why does the pqp use the imparfait conjugaisons for its auxiliary verb?
also, just to go back to my first example fhskfjs
is "j'ai eu parlé" correct?
cedar nest
No because you have two past participles there
cedar nest
but then why does the pqp use the imparfait conjugaisons for its auxiliary verb?
That's just conjugation where the imparfait is used to mark a further-from-the-past indication
paper saffron
No because you have two past participles there
aah ok, so it's not like the passé proche where it's only kinda considered a tense. It just doesnt exist, noted! fhskfhs
sonic imp
It also highlights the imparfait verbs which aren't really important to the anteriority
cedar nest
aah ok, so it's not like the passé proche where it's only kinda considered a ten...
For the passé récent and the futur proche, they're not tenses they're more just… constructions
sonic imp
You could use a different construction with the same three highlighted verbs without pqp and still get the same order of events
paper saffron
oohh "passé récent" shoot fhskfjs
paper saffron
You could use a different construction with the same three highlighted verbs wit...
ooohh ic!!
thank you both!! 🙏
cedar nest
We generally understand tense to be a function of verbs. Verbs carry two types of information: conjugation and meaning. Conjugation is stuff like person, number, etc whereas meaning is well, meaning. The difference between « je viens » and « il venait » is a difference in conjugation (first person singular present vs third person singular imperfect) but the meaning is the same, the action of going somewhere. For compound tenses, what exists is a separation of conjugation and meaning where the conjugation part is handled by the auxiliary verb and the meaning is handled by the past participle. In the example of « j'ai parlé » and « il avait parlé », the conjugation difference is handled by the auxiliary but the meaning is handled by the past participle.
The passé récent and futur proche doesn't do this, it's more about using a verb with another to explain a certain meaning.
sonic imp
The definition of tenses is really vague in general tbf
"technically speaking" only past/present/future are tenses, and only if they're non-compound
But that's not functionally how we use it
paper saffron
We generally understand tense to be a function of verbs. Verbs carry two types o...
um, i appreciate the explanation! but i already know what conjugations are ;;xx
please dont waste your breath-
so i shouldnt worry about WHY the pqp uses the imparfait for its auxiliary verb?
it's kinda just an accepted standard that might have had some significant distinction a long time ago, but not anymore?
cedar nest
so i shouldnt worry about WHY the pqp uses the imparfait for its auxiliary verb?
I suppose it's because the passé composé uses the present conjugations so you have this auxiliary in a simple tense plus the past participle then the plus-que-parfait is made in that pattern
but tbf Latin's old pluperfect was made (partially) from its imperfect too