Hazio ✱

[sterile steppe]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

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Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[strange plume]

It's indeed not the same without que celui

(...) le même que celui qui (...)

(...) the same as the one that (...)

So it's needed to make the sentence complete

"you think it's the same (as the one) who shot at alain?"

Wait that doesnt illustrate the point cuz it works in english

now im confused

Maybe it's also fine without in french

[civic summit]

whenever you're making a comparison — whether it's superior, inferior, or equivalent (like in our case here) — you need three things:

• a definite article (i.e. le, la, les)
• an adjective
• the relative pronoun « que »
  all of those are necessary for the comparison

this means that « que celui » is mandatory here

[velvet eagle]

I don't get that explanation, what of this 3 is "celui"? Or you just mean that because of the need of "que" there's also a need for "celui"? Could it be "l'homme" instead?

[civic summit]

well... in a comparison, you have the thing being compared (which is the ce in « __c'__est ») and also what it's being compared to (which is « celui »)
so, those two things are mandatory for the comparison to work

it doesn't have to be « celui », it can be « l'homme » just like you said

what i'm saying is that there should be something there, which is « celui » in our case

in the English translation, it goes as follows:
"Do you think that it is the same person as the one who shot at Alain Rennecourt?"

you can't remove "the one" in the English translation, because it won't make sense and it'll be grammatically incorrect

[oak mirage]

le même que celui = the same as he

“Do you think that’s the same as he who shot at Alain Rennecourt”

It sounds clunky in English, but it’s the same structure. it just sounds better in french

[velvet eagle]

Okay now I understand, thank you

[oak mirage]

you could expand it out to “c’est la même personne que celui…”

[safe vessel]

Actualy in that case, you don't need « celui », you just use the noun. The comparative is used there because « celui » is a pronoun.
« C'est le même que celui qui a tiré … »
« C'est la même personne qui a tiré … »