Anis Étoilé

[sharp tree]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[tight sinew]

avant que is always and systematically followed by the subjunctive

après que is supposed to be followed by the indicative according to traditional grammar rules, however many French speakers use the subjunctive afterwards mirroring the use after "avant que"

[fathom jay]

i see

all this time ive been using subjunctive for après que

and avant que needs the ne expletif right

[tight sinew]

using the subjunctive after "après que" is viewed as an error in the strictest grammatical sense, but linguistically, since it's used by so many, you could argue that it's grammatically correct just the same

[tight sinew]

ne explétif is optional, but it's pretty commonly used with 'avant que'

[fathom jay]

got it thanks !

[paper plank]

Honestly I harshly disagree with the French Academy on this one (and others), it’s wholly opinionated their explanation doesn’t make sense

[fathom jay]

ill keep it in mind for an exam but irl i guess its natural enough aha

[paper plank]

I would write après que + subjunctive lmao, but yeah do keep it in minds for exams I guess

Teacher might be a weirdo

[tight sinew]

I don't generally agree with the Académie either, but grammarians other than the Académie also proscribe the use of the subjunctive…
At the end of the day it's a situation where you need to know that both uses exist and in what contexts you might need to choose one or the other

[paper plank]

Really? 🤔 Can you give me a link if you have one

[fathom jay]

it's like "if i was you" or "neither x nor y" in english haha

[tight sinew]

https://journals.openedition.org/linx/8088#tocto1n3

[fathom jay]

yes that's why i saw conflicting answers

[magic geode]

What is the issue with neither/nor?

[fathom jay]

i think the more common "mistake" natives make is that neither is technically considered singular, so you would say Neither is good not Neither are good

and that it should be nor but many people say or

[fickle edge]

Neither is mostly used with the singular, but can, as in your example, be followed by a plural. At this point I'd consider both to be correct.

[sick ether]

The thing is that if you use avant que + indicatif in an exam (as it should be), your teacher could even take it as a mistake
Most native don't even know this rule, and even those who know it don't respect it because it sounds like a mistake 😭

[fathom jay]

you mean après que ?

[fickle edge]

^

Avant que + le subjonctif.
Avant de + l'indicatif.

[fathom jay]

you know what, let's just not say it in an exam AHAHHA

i actually asked here because i've been going with après que + subj for so long until i saw après que + indicatif in a news article

and i was like Wait WHAT WHY IS IT INDICATIF

[paper plank]

Literally, sounds wrong lmao

[sick ether]

yes, sorry

[sick ether]

yeah news are the only places i read it

but not always