lazwarz

[vale tulip]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

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Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[next coral]

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Can you be more specific?

[chilly yoke]

être and avoir since those are the auxiliaries, yes

[wind thunder]

If I was going to use another verb what do I do

[wind thunder]

In the text it says part 1 is the verb avoir or être why can’t I use another verb

Like it says to have

To be

What about other verbs like to swim and stuff

[tropic frigate]

That's just a convention to me, only "avoir" and "être"

[wind thunder]

What do you mean by convention

[chilly yoke]

You can't

That's just how the language developed

that's like asking why 'have' is the only auxiliary in English, why can't I use 'be'

[wind thunder]

When you say auxiliary what does that mean

I don’t understand what it is

[chilly yoke]

Okay, so let me back up a bit: do you know the difference between the 'simple' and 'compound' tenses?

Do you know what those terms mean?

[wind thunder]

Is simple like I ate and compound I have eaten

[chilly yoke]

exactly

[wind thunder]

Yayy

[chilly yoke]

A simple tense means that there exists just the verb but for compound ones it means that there are multiple things that comprise the verb

[wind thunder]

What do u mean by comprise

Thanks for helping me btw

[chilly yoke]

I'll take English for an example: In a compound tense like the present perfect, there are two elements here that make up the verb: the auxiliary and the past participle. The auxiliary is the verb 'to have' while the past participle is a form of the original verb. In your sentence, 'I have eaten', the auxiliary verb is 'to have' and the past participle is 'eaten'. With me so far?

[wind thunder]

Ohh like I have eaten the I have

[chilly yoke]

exactly

[wind thunder]

How do I use être in it

Like I had to be something?

I don’t get how I put that in it

[chilly yoke]

We'll get there

[wind thunder]

Kk

[chilly yoke]

This distinction is essential because conjugation means modifying a verb according to person. When I say, 'conjugate the verb "to speak" in the third person singular simple past', what I'm saying is that the verb has to change according to the person (third person singular, so that's 'he/she/it') and the tense (simple past, 'he/she/it SPOKE').

It's a bit more invisible in English because for virtually all verbs, all conjugation outside of the third person singular has coalesced like 'I speak, you speak, he/she/it speaks, we speak, they speak'. It's a lot more visible with a verb like 'to be' where we have, 'I am, you are, he/she/it is, we are, they are'.

[wind thunder]

Ohh yes

Like il attend

[chilly yoke]

Exactly!

[wind thunder]

But before it’s attendre

Yay

[chilly yoke]

j'attends, tu attends, il attend, nous attendons, vous attendez, ils attendent

[wind thunder]

Yes

[chilly yoke]

attendre is the infinitive, what we call 'the basic form' of the verb

[wind thunder]

Ohh infinitive

That’s the word

Thank you

[chilly yoke]

Now let's move on to compound tenses. Here, what is conjugated is the auxiliary verb, 'to have', but the meaning is given by the past participle, 'eaten'

[wind thunder]

Yes

Like to have eaten

The sentence

Do u say I have eaten

[chilly yoke]

That could work yes, that's the past infinitive

'For him to have done this…'

Notice that the past infinitive here is compound because it comprises of two things: an auxiliary (to have) and a participle (done). Because there's no subject, we can't change the verb so we have to introduce an auxiliary.

But that's another matter. Point is, compound tenses are made up of an auxiliary and a past participle.

With me so far?

[wind thunder]

What would a subject mean

Be

[chilly yoke]

Subject just means what was doing the verb (in active voice)

[wind thunder]

Ohh

Isn’t the verb doing

[chilly yoke]

If I say, 'I have eaten'
the subject is 'I' – first-person singular – who is doing the verb which is 'have eaten'

[wind thunder]

Ohh yes

[chilly yoke]

You change the subject, you change the verb conjugation because conjugation agrees with the subject/person: 'I have eaten, he has eaten'.

[wind thunder]

So is the subject when you have the person and the verb

[wind thunder]

Ohh yes

[chilly yoke]

No, subject is just the person

[wind thunder]

Kk

[chilly yoke]

Person + verb would be called a clause, the smallest unit

Okay so we're going to move into your original question, why être

[wind thunder]

Thank you

[wind thunder]

Oo

[chilly yoke]

In English, the auxiliary used to be 'to have' and 'to be' just like in French but that distinction has gone away. You can still see this system in action if you open something old like the King James Bible made in 1611. If you open up Matthew 28:6, you can see this: 'He is not here: for he is risen, as he said'. That verb is in the present perfect but with 'to be' instead of 'avoir'. If we open up a modern version like the New International Version (made in 1978), we see it with 'to have': 'He is not here; he has risen, just as he said.'

[wind thunder]

Ohh yes

In all the old things 😭

good reference

How could u put the to be in that sentence

Thank you so much for helping me im so grateful 😭😭😭❤️

[chilly yoke]

For French, this distinction is alive and well. For most verbs, « avoir » is the preferred auxiliary but for a set number of verbs, they take « être ». In beginner material, the mnemonic or abbreviation 'Dr & Mrs Vandertramp' is often used like in this picture. For these verbs, you use « être » instead of « avoir ». You make it exactly the same way as « avoir » verbs: You put a subject (il), the verb (venir), conjugate that (il est venu) but there exists one key difference.
In the examples with « avoir » notice that the past participle didn't change: It didn't matter if I said, « J'ai mangé » or « Elles ont mangé », the past participle stayed the same (invariable). For « être » verbs, however, they do change and they change according to the person. Example:
Il est venu (venu because the subject is masculine and singular)
Elles sont venues (venues because the subject is feminine and plural)

[wind thunder]

Ohh Yes I understand

How do u know if it’s an être verb or an avoir verb?

[chilly yoke]

In this case, you can think of past participle agreement with être verbs like adjectives. Just like how adjectives agree with the subject (il est beau vs elles sont belles), the same case happens here: il est venu vs elles sont venues.

[chilly yoke]

This is the tricky part because unfortunately you do have to memorise them. Outside of reflexives, they're always intransitive – they don't take an object – but it only works one way. All « être » verbs – again, outside of reflexives (that's another topic for another day) – are intransitive but not all intransitive verbs use « être ».

[wind thunder]

Ohh yes

[chilly yoke]

If a verb has an object, it cannot take « être ».

[wind thunder]

Where is the être I still don’t get that

Is être the rule

[chilly yoke]

Il est venu

that's the auxiliary

[wind thunder]

Ohh

[chilly yoke]

Remember the formula for compounds: verb + past participle

Subject + auxiliary verb + past participle
Il a mangé
Il est venu

[wind thunder]

Is être verbs the regular verbs and irregular is avoir

[chilly yoke]

Nope, regularity doesn't have anything to do with it.

[wind thunder]

I don’t get what the être and avoir is though is it this auxiliary verb in the middle

[chilly yoke]

« arriver » is regular, takes « être » (il est arrivé, elles sont arrivées)
« pouvoir » is irregular, takes « avoir » (il a pu, elles ont pu)

[chilly yoke]

It is

[wind thunder]

Is there a word that’s regular but takes avoir

[chilly yoke]

Basically, they're just regular verbs that also have a dual function in being used in conjugation

[chilly yoke]

Pretty much most of them, 95 percent of all French verbs take avoir

être is really a minority

Regularity is a feature of verb endings, not a feature of what auxiliary it takes

[wind thunder]

So are just most of the regular verbs are avoir and the irregular ones are mostly être

[fading gulch]

Most irregular verbs also take avoir.

[wind thunder]

Is être est in this and avoir a

[wind thunder]

So how can I know what to take

How do I know if it’s regular or irregular

I have a table with them

The regular knes

Ones

[fading gulch]

We keep telling you only a small number of verbs take être.

Regardless of how regular they are.

[chilly yoke]

Again, regularity doesn't have anything to do with it. In that list, « retourner, rentrer, entrer, arriver, descendre, entrer, tomber, rester, monter », literally 9 out of the 16 verbs there, are all regular

[fading gulch]

Bertie even gave you the list.

[wind thunder]

And I said I have the list already

[wind thunder]

im just trying to learn if you don’t want to help me don’t

[hollow swan]

113 and going strong :0\

[chilly yoke]

Regular and irregular depend on verb endings which are wholly irrelevant to the what auxiliary it takes

They're two different things

[wind thunder]

What type of verb ending like the actual action or the tense the action is in

[chilly yoke]

The final two (or more) letters at the end of every verb: First group (-er) is regular outside of « aller », second group (-ir) is regular outside of a few verbs like « partir, mourir », third group (-re, -oir, etc) are the rest and they're mostly irregular

though there are patterns within them

[wind thunder]

Ohh right

[chilly yoke]

It's just that it's varied so you can't make a generalisation

[wind thunder]

When im learning irregular verbs do i just have to memorise them through the vocabulary but if its regular i can learn the rule

[chilly yoke]

Yes but for irregular there are subpatterns

so you can get the hang of them

[wind thunder]

Thank you so so much

[chilly yoke]

I'm just going to repeat it one more time: regularity does NOT have any relevance to auxiliary choice

[tropic frigate]

Can I ask if regular verbs here like manger, regarder, etc. are intransitive as well?

[chilly yoke]

manger and regarder are transitive

parler, bouger, and nager aren't

[wind thunder]

How do I know what the auxiliary choice is.. is it just if it’s être or avoir

And I have to learn what’s with what

Memorise

[chilly yoke]

Again, you just have to memorise

[wind thunder]

Kk

Thank you omg 😭💓💓💓

[chilly yoke]

no problem

[wind thunder]

Such a life saver you just taught me so much

[hollow swan]

Tons of mnemonics out there dw

[tropic frigate]

Oh, I am just confused because you said earlier "For regular verbs, they're always intransitive..."

[chilly yoke]

Oh yes, I should reword that

I meant for non-reflexive verbs

[tropic frigate]

thanks they were insightful

[vague igloo]

@chilly yoke try splitting the links in multiple messages

[chilly yoke]

Thanks

J'étais trop ambitieux

Verb auxiliary: avoir or être?

[vague igloo]

try again, i gave you a special role that should protect you (temporarily)

[chilly yoke]

Verb conjugation

(1) First group: -er, regular and irregular

(2) Second group: -ir, regular and irregular

(3) Third group: -re, regular and irregular

NICE, thanks Citrons

@wind thunder I got muted twice for writing that so read the articles in all four messages please

[vague igloo]

you are no longer protected from the automod btw

[chilly yoke]

that's fine

Je suis trop passionné pour enseigner

[vague igloo]

j'avoue