#ahcos

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

stone flaxBOT
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Please be patient

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wheat rain
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The verb here is « vouloir dire (to mean) » which does not trigger the subjunctive.

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For compound verbs, the trigger is determined from the nearest verb. Examples:
« Il faut que je te dise que tu avais raison. »
« dire » is in the subjunctive because its nearest verb is « falloir » which triggers the subjunctive, whereas « avoir » isn't because its nearest verb « dire » does not trigger the subjunctive.

« Il faut dire que tu avais raison. »
« avoir » isn't in the subjunctive because its nearest verb « dire » does not trigger the subjunctive.

frigid berry
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thanks but that doesn't answer the question ... PES_Think

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or i'm too stupid to understand that it does

wheat rain
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The subjunctive is rarely optional

frigid berry
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"dire" doesn't trigger the subjonctif either, but "ne dire pas" does, so

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so your answer is that it's completely forbidden to use the subjonctif in this case?

wheat rain
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It doesn't trigger here no

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For inanimate subjects, « vouloir dire » can either be used in the subjunctive or indicative but indicative is more and more preferred

frigid berry
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but it's ne vouloir pas dire.

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again, my question is:

is it strictly impossible to use the subjonctif, or is it at least possible (given that's what the speaker wants to say)

wheat rain
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Hmm

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From what I'm reading, it's possible but rare

frigid berry
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following up on this, is there any way to know for sure whether a verb behaves like this or not taking into account this:

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because either what they wrote is slightly incorrect/misleading or there are verbs that behave differently

odd current
frigid berry
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I'm trying to understand why in this case there seems to be an exception to the rule

potent plank
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There is no rule that states that a negative verb followed by "que" must trigger the subjunctive, that's only a property of a couple of verbs like "penser".

"vouloir dire" isn't one such verb (or phrasal verb in this case)

frigid berry
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because i'd definitely say that "vouloir dire" expresses opinion, right?

potent plank
potent plank
frigid berry
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i'd still argue that "i mean that ..." also gives an opinion, but that's just splitting hairs