vision111

[vivid hare]

Please be patient

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[digital agate]

the structure « s'attendre à (quelque chose) » is only used when an indirect object is followed by the verb
however, if you wanted to follow it with a clause, you have to add « ce que » to verb, because it acts as a relative pronoun and it starts the clause, which is the case here
moreover, it triggers the subjunctive mood because the act of expecting something is subjective to the speaker; therefore, the indicative cannot be used here

[undone quest]

Could you give me a few other examples?

I’m still abit confused.

[digital agate]

sure

for « s'attendre à (quelque chose) », you have an indirect object instead of a new clause

par exemple...

• Je m'attends à des bonnes notes. ("I'm expecting some good marks.")
• Tu t'attendais à quelque chose d'autre ? ("Were you expecting something else?")

on the other hand, for « s'attendre à ce que... », you have a new clause

par exemple...

• Je m'attendais à ce qu'il fasse ses devoirs. ("I was expecting him to do his homework.")
• Tu t'attends à ce que nous t'aidions ? ("You expect us to help you?")

also, for sentences that are using « s'attendre à ce que... », there are always two different subjects

because a new idea (i.e. a clause) is introduced

is that clear?

for instance, you can see here that « je » and « ce » are two different subjects

[undone quest]

Ahh this is something new I haven’t seen this before

[digital agate]

the subjunctive?

[undone quest]

I saw another one without s’attendre

[undone quest]

Nah the clause thing with ce que

[digital agate]

ahh

yes, several other structures that are similar exist too

like « jusqu'à » and « jusqu'à ce que »

[undone quest]

Yeah that came up as well

So would it follow the same rules

[digital agate]

this one's a little different because it's a preposition here

not a verb

[digital agate]

yep

[undone quest]

Oh

[digital agate]

first one introduces a simple noun

e.g. Je vais travailler jusqu'à midi.

second one introduces a new clause

[undone quest]

So midi is the new clause?

[digital agate]

e.g. Je vais travailler jusqu'à ce que tu partes.

[digital agate]

no

[digital agate]

the new clause is in this sentence

because it uses « jusqu'à ce que... »

do you get it? 👀

[undone quest]

Kinda like 50%

[long kestrel]

There is a clause that serves as the object of a verb. But in order to act as an object, it has to be nominalized, that's where "ce que" (or some variation thereof) comes in.
The same thing happens with prepositions like jusqu'à, they have to be followed by a noun.

[digital agate]

yes

[digital agate]

what are you having trouble with in particular?

[undone quest]

Understanding in what situations to use ce que

Like for clauses

[digital agate]

okay

let's go back to the verb « s'attendre »

[undone quest]

Ok

[digital agate]

in this sentence...

• Je m'attends à une bonne note. ("I'm expecting a good mark.)
  is the underlined part a clause?

[undone quest]

No

[digital agate]

good

[undone quest]

Okay phew

This would of been a long night if so

[digital agate]

here, since it's not a clause, we don't use « ce que »

[undone quest]

Wait

[digital agate]

here's another example:

• Tu t'attends à quoi ? ("What are you expecting?")

[undone quest]

Do we only use a clause when the sentence after starts with a pronoun

[digital agate]

not exactly

[undone quest]

o okay

Okay anyway

[undone quest]

That isn’t a clause

[digital agate]

here, the underlined part is also not a clause

yup

because it doesn't contain a subject nor a verb

[undone quest]

Okay

[digital agate]

let's take another example now...

• Je m'attends à ce que tu ranges ta chambre.
  is the underlined part a clause?

[undone quest]

Yeah

[digital agate]

nice

why is that?

[undone quest]

Ce que is there

[digital agate]

and...?

there's a subject and a verb

that's another reason

[undone quest]

I was gonna say object but I got the gist

Kinda

[digital agate]

here, we don't have a simple noun like « une bonne note »

we have an entirely new clause

[undone quest]

So does it have to have a subject and a verb?

[digital agate]

that introduces a new idea

[undone quest]

For it to use ce que

[digital agate]

yes

[undone quest]

That would just be a subject?

Right?

[digital agate]

here's another example...

• Il s'attend à ce que sa sœur l'appelle.

[digital agate]

more like an indirect object

[undone quest]

The verb is at the end but I don’t think that matters so it’s a clause

[digital agate]

because we have the preposition « à » after the verb « s'attendre »

[digital agate]

yep

so we use « ce que »

[undone quest]

So if followed by de it would be a direct?

[digital agate]

no

if an object is followed by any preposition, it's considered to be an indirect object

like in « J'ai peur de la grenouille. »

[strong kayak]

If « je m'y attendais à (...) » Can be translated to « I expected (...) » , could « je m'y attendais à ce que (...) » then be similar to « I expected that it be (the case) that (...) »

[undone quest]

just give me an example of an object for my sanity.

[strong kayak]

Or am i reaching / overanalysing

Also sorry for taking up this space)

[undone quest]

Nah it’s fine

Dw

[digital agate]

no no, it's a great question
here's what i would translate it as:

• s'attendre à → to expect (...)
• s'attendre à ce que → to expect that (...)

[digital agate]

imma' give you three examples

[undone quest]

Ahh ok

[digital agate]

• Je mange une pizza.
  • this is a direct object because there is no preposition separating the object from the verb
• Je joue à Minecraft.
  • this is an indirect object because the preposition « à » separates the verb from the object
• Je suis sorti de la piscine.
  • this is also an indirect object because the preposition « de » separates the verb from the object
    we cool?

[undone quest]

Yeah

[digital agate]

alr

do you want to do another verb that's like « s'attendre » ?

[undone quest]

Yes yes yes

[digital agate]

to make sure you understand perfectly

alr

the verb « tenir à » means "to mean a lot"

for example...

• Je tiens beaucoup à lui. ("He means a lot to me.")

it's a bit weird because the subject and objects are inverted between the languages but it's fine

[undone quest]

Is this indirect?

[digital agate]

yes

[undone quest]

Kk

[digital agate]

great job

now, let's compare structures

[undone quest]

Thanks 🙏

[digital agate]

• Je tiens à cette tasse. ("This mug means a lot to me.")
• Je tiens à ce que tu ailles avec moi. ("It means a lot to me if you'd go with me.")

can you see the difference?

[undone quest]

Ah my bad I had to go somewhere

I’m back now

[undone quest]

So where’s the subject

Is it avec moi?

[digital agate]

the subject is « tu »

the verb is « ailles »

which is aller in the subjunctive

keep in the that the clauses don't always have to consist of only a subject and a verb

they can have other words too

but the bare minimum for a clause is for there to be a verb and a clause

[undone quest]

A verb and a clause?

[digital agate]

sorry, i meant a subject and a verb

[undone quest]

Alright let’s do another one

[digital agate]

my mind is fried lol

[undone quest]

Oh

😥

Would it would with de

I’ll send u more that u find

[digital agate]

to be honest, the only ones i know are « s'attendre à » and « tenir à » 💀

[undone quest]

There was one with je compte faire

I think

[digital agate]

hmm...

[undone quest]

Yh look

Found it again

[digital agate]

ah

that one is « jusqu'à ce que »

it's accompanied with a preposition, not a verb

we already discussed it above

[undone quest]

Ik

[long kestrel]

Jusqu'à needs to be followed by a noun. If you want a clause after it, you have to add ce que to make it act as a noun.

[undone quest]

So I can’t say jusqu’à il part

It has to be jusqu’à ce qu’il part

[long kestrel]

Yes.

[undone quest]

That’s a really good way of remembering that thank you

[undone quest]

Is this true?

Crazy how I’m still learning new grammar rules this far in

Thanks for everyone’s help

[tall comet]

presumably, you'll still be learning grammar rules, even when you're at an advanced level 🙂

[undone notch]

The part about « simple ‘que’ » sounds off to me. The reason why you use « ce que » and not just « que » is because the preposition « à » cannot be directly followed by the conjunction « que », it must have an indirect object, so « ce » is added as a sort of dummy object. It’s not about ‘nuances of precaution’, it’s just « à » not being able to have the conjunction.

ChatGPT says that « à ce que » has nuances of ‘precaution’ and precaution is prevention, right? So why is it that the grammatical phrase is « je le préviens qu’il réussira pas son travail » and not « je le préviens à ce qu’il réussisse pas son travail » ?

[undone notch]

It should also be noted that the addition of « que » into conjunctions to mark the start of a new subordinate clause happens most of the time. Conjunctions and prepositions can only be followed by objects so if you want clauses, you add the conjunction « que ».
Examples with both:
« Après avoir fait la vaisselle, je dors encore. »
« Après que j’ai fait la vaisselle, mon ami m’a dit qu’il y en avait plus à faire. »
« Sans prendre un risque, je peux pas faire ça. »
« Sans qu’il prenne un risque, je peux pas autoriser ce plan. »
« À moins d’ignorer quelque chose, je crois que ce plan a l’air con. »
« À moins que j’ignore quelque chose, ce plan a l’air con. »
« Jusqu’à son arrivée, on va rien faire. »
« Jusqu’à ce qu’il arrive, on va rien faire. »

[undone quest]

Alr I think I get this now

Thanks for everyone’s help

[solemn crown]

because chat gpt just made that up lol

à is just the preposition, so it’s with s’attendre because the verb uses that preposition while prevenir doesn’t use a preposition

when que follows à it must become à ce que

simple as that

[undone notch]

Standard AI L

[solemn crown]

don’t use it

there’s a million free resources for french

chat gpt is drawing off of those and then butchering it

[undone quest]

Why does everyone have a problem with chat gpt

Literally just simplys what everyone is trying to say

Only use ce que ( for clauses ) when you are talking about expecting insisting and ensuring

That’s all I need to know

[solemn crown]

that’s not true lol

better to learn the truth than wallow in poor grammar and embarrassment

[undone quest]

kk