Fato [Corrigez-moi svp] ✱

[silent briar]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[wise wolf]

the formal way to construct a negative sentence is by using "ne" + another negative pronoun (based on the meaning)

but most of the time, in conversational French, "ne" is dropped, the other negative pronoun being enough to convey the negation

[austere creek]

Yes, I get that

But that's sometimes confusing

[wise wolf]

do you mean augmentative "plus" vs negative "plus" then?

[austere creek]

Yes

How can I make the difference between them?

I mean how can I be clear when I want to say augmented about something?

[gray lichen]

The speaker would most probably use "en" to say He wants more of something in that case i guess

"J'en veux plus. "

[austere creek]

And what about a case where somebody is more of something? I mean like more kind or more aggressive

[gray lichen]

Which other cases would you use" je veux plus "

To me it sounds like you want more of something but i dont know if there is other convenable meanings

[austere creek]

Not necessarily "je veux plus"

I mean "plus"

[wise wolf]

most of the time, the sentences are built slightly differently so the other one wouldn't work
that said, it can happen that both meanings are possible
ex: je veux plus de chocolat

context is usually enough to make the distinction. Additionally, they aren't pronounced the same

[austere creek]

Without being confused with the negation

[austere creek]

How are they pronounced differently?

[gray lichen]

The native french speaker's ne omition is kind of problem but it is usually understable whether it is negation or not depending on the context in my opinion

[wise wolf]

the augmentative plus always ends with /s/
comparative "plus" (indicative more of something) uses a mandatory liaison while this liaison is forbidden with the negative "plus". If you use "ne" though, you can do it because it clears the confusion

[austere creek]

That's kind of clear, but thats about oral French. What about conversational French in text like in a chat?

[wise wolf]

context mostly

and sentence construction is often slightly different

"plus" is a real fucker for learners

[gray lichen]

Shouldn't we use "ne " for the second one because it is a negation ?

[austere creek]

You can't imagine all the times I've heard that in most cases context is the answer. I think I'm going to always give me answers with that haha

[austere creek]

I get it

[wise wolf]

you can use "ne", which is the third line, in which case the liaison is facultative
but "ne" is often dropped in casual French, which is the case shown in the second line. In that case, the liaison is forbidden

[austere creek]

So, to summarize, the liaison is not pronounced when it's negative?

[wise wolf]

damn you good, it may be the biggest troll in French pronunciation

[wise wolf]

basically

[gray lichen]

But the ne omition isnt just a oral thing, so ne is always required in negative sentences

[wise wolf]

it's not just an oral thing and it isn't required

[gray lichen]

I mean the rule for the ne.... (adv de negation)

[wise wolf]

using "ne" is formal
dropping "ne" is common

[austere creek]

It's just about giving roles to the /s/, imo. You just need to know that, as you said, when it's negative, it's not pronounced, and when it's augmentative and comparative, it is pronounced

Isn't it?

[gray lichen]

I see it a lot and i thought it was just the way french people write things online or their Fast speech doesnt usually let us hear the ne but i see

[wise wolf]

you simplified it a bit. For the exact rules, refer to the chart above. But for simplification the ending "s" tends to be pronounced when "plus" has a positive meaning and not when it has a negative meaning

[austere creek]

I'm going to save that chart for later

[wise wolf]

;liaisons

[silent briar]

https://imgur.com/4E4QhuB https://imgur.com/kAzV5hb

[austere creek]

:0

Amazing

[wise wolf]

here's the full chart for all about the holy fuckery that is French liaison
made it a few days ago

[wise wolf]

just to be clear, simplifying rules is not a bad thing, it's easier to remember
you just have to be aware you are simplifying and that you might need to check specifics if needed @austere creek

[austere creek]

I see. You made a great work

[austere creek]

I see. Thanks

[wise wolf]

so if you want to remember
positive plus => s ending
negative plus => no s ending
that's fine, just be aware the rules are a bit more precise

[austere creek]

Thanks, man. You're such a great teacher

[gray lichen]

Flynn's leçon 🤩🤩