#reena7998

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

summer marshBOT
#
Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

primal igloo
#

I feel like the first one is passe composé and the second one is imparfait

mighty barn
#

Passé composé describes action, so things with a clear on/off state, defined things, etc. Imparfait describes events, so things with a vague start/end but a clear duration

#

So for number 4, which constitutes an action and which constitutes an event?

versed forge
#

another way to put it which clicks for my brain personally is
event which was happening and was interrupted (imparfait) vs action which did the interrupting (passé composé)

primal igloo
versed forge
#

how i was taught too hehe

primal igloo
#

but sometimes it’s the there’s like in 2. There’s no interruption

#

but anyways it’s like

#

passe composé - happened once … and l’imparfait - duration

versed forge
#

in 2 theres somewhat of an implication that you sleeping was a "long-term" event (imparfait), at least in comparison with his arrival which can only really happen once (thereby rendering the arrival passé composé)

primal igloo
#

no it’s the sun going to sleep

#

ah sorry I sound like I’m arguing

#

the sun went to bed while I listened to the telephone ring

versed forge
#

omg i thought you meant question 2 not the second part of question 4 xD

primal igloo
#

the sun only goes away once

primal igloo
#

omg sorry

versed forge
#

npnp

#

okay so

primal igloo
#

that’s a good way of saying it thank you💗

versed forge
#

so applying the same principle - the sun was in the middle of setting (longer-term event) when the i heard the phone ring (one defined action)

primal igloo
#

oh

#

i thought it was the other way.. this is why it’s confusing

versed forge
#

youll get the hang of it, thats what practise is for :)

primal igloo
#

Have my exam todayyy

#

Atleast I got futur prochain, futur simple, conditionel down

mighty barn
#

Outside of that construction of interrupted event = imparfait / the interrupting action = passé composé, the difference also comes in event vs action

#

It comes in handy for number 3

versed forge
#

yeah im not sure how to explain whats going on in number 3 without just saying it

primal igloo
#

oh I made a BIG mistake there

#

I conjugated voir when it was meant to conjugate aller??

versed forge
#

hehe good job spotting it

primal igloo
#

i swear im just tired cuz like 😭

primal igloo
#

It’s “nous allions la voir trois fois à l’hôpital ”

mighty barn
#

Just as an example:
« J’ai dormi cinq fois aujourd’hui. »
Here, sleeping is treated as an action because there’s a clear number which implies a clear start/end because there’s a moment when you were sleeping and moments when you weren’t. Because of that, the passé composé is used.

« Je dormais avant. »
Here, sleeping is treated as an event since it has no clear start/end. We don’t know when sleeping started, when it ended, we just know that it was happening over a period of time. Because of that, the imparfait is used.

primal igloo
primal igloo
#

wait so it’s not nous allions.. it’s nous sommes —allés—

versed forge
#

the auxiliary verb for aller is être

mighty barn
#

nous sommes allée.s

#

You also forgot the auxiliary in number 2 btw

versed forge
#

have you seen the MRS VANDERTRAMP uhh .. initialism ?

primal igloo
#

yes

#

it’s an être verb

mighty barn
#

« Il arrivé »
where auxiliary

primal igloo
#

il est arrivé

#

vrai?

mighty barn
primal igloo
#

omg

#

yea I did..

#

I’ve been forgetting the auxiliary for months and only learned it was missing yesterday

#

so I’m gonna make a note again to memorize it

#

Passe composé: subject + auxiliary + particpe passe

versed forge
#

is your native language english ?

primal igloo
#

yes

primal igloo
versed forge
#

sometimes it helps to think about it in english to get all the components - i (subject) have (auxiliary) eaten (participe passé)

#

vs i ate (conjugated to imperfect)

mighty barn
#

nice

primal igloo
#

is I ate really like an imperfect? I can’t see it because a duration type of verb

#

<<I ate a sandwich then I had some juice>> it happened once but wait I see it

#

it is a duration because the sandwich is being ate

#

passe composé <<I have eaten my sandwich>>

versed forge
#

past tense in english is different to french but if it helps for illustrative purposes id keep this in the back of your mind

primal igloo
#

yea

versed forge
primal igloo
#

that’s a good way to see it

versed forge
#

thrilled to help :')

versed forge
#

context helps i hope xD

primal igloo
#

yes thank you ☺️

#

“mon cheveux avait noirs et en que de cheval”, is this correct?

#

also what’s the difference of est-ce and qu’est ce?

mighty barn
#

mon cheveu, as in one strand?

primal igloo
#

no my hair

mighty barn
#

also that's an adjective so not « avoir », but « être »

primal igloo
#

all

mighty barn
#

mes cheveux sont noirs (my hair is black)

primal igloo
#

oh

#

I did étais and I got it wrong

#

cuz that’s conjugated with je

#

lmao

mighty barn
#

also it's « en queue de cheval »

versed forge
#

3rd person plural - ils étai...

primal igloo
mighty barn
#

As in « Qu'est-ce que » vs « est-ce que » ?

primal igloo
#

What about “is it black?” would thag be est-ce que?

mighty barn
#

« Est-ce que » is just the bare question marker

#

« Est-ce qu'ils sont noirs ? »
ils = les cheveux

#

Wait before we continue, do you know the three ways of asking a question in French

primal igloo
#

no

mighty barn
#

gimme a sec, I'm gonna type it out

primal igloo
#

Kk ty

mighty barn
#

French has three ways of asking a question, inversion (formal), est-ce que (neutral), and intonation (informal).
(1) Inversion [formal]: You invert the verb and the subject, inserting a -t- if it's in the third person singular and the ending is a vowel and/or repeating the subject if it's a noun.
Le professeur a raison ===> Le professeur a-t-il raison ?
(2) Est-ce que [neutral]: You add « est-ce que » before the subject.
Le professeur a raison ===> Est-ce que le professeur a raison ?
(3) Intonation [informal]: You just repeat the sentence with a rising intonation.
Le professeur a raison ===> Le professeur a raison ?

#

So, « est-ce que » is not a full thing in and of itself, it's just a question marker

#

I'll let you digest that before moving to « Qu'est-ce que »

primal igloo
#

yes makes sense

#

what about quelle

mighty barn
#

Now that’s just open-ended questions, what about questions with question words like quoi (what), pourquoi (why), etcetera? Well, the same rule applies, it’s just that we make some adjustments

primal igloo
primal igloo
mighty barn
#

For example, « Que (what) » requires inversion « Que fait-il ? » so by using « est-ce que », we can skip inversion

#

Qu’est-ce que is literally Que + est-ce que

#

This applies for other question words. So, « Pourquoi fait-il ça ? » can become « Pourquoi est-ce qu’il fait ça ? »

primal igloo
mighty barn
primal igloo
#

est-ce fait?

mighty barn
#

because « est-ce que » is just « c’est que » but inverted

primal igloo
#

where did the il go

mighty barn
primal igloo
#

that would be <<what did he make/do?>>

#

and est-ce que fait means <<what is made?>>

primal igloo
mighty barn
#

Hold on

#

My internet is acting up

primal igloo
#

kk

mighty barn
#

« est-ce que » serves no other purpose but as dummy inversion

#

There's actually a similar thing in English

primal igloo
#

oh

mighty barn
#

French, like English, mainly asks questions by inversion: You flip the order of subject and verb. In English, this process used to be able to happen with every verb; an example would be Job 38:33 in the King James Bible, made in the 17th century. There, we have the verse, 'Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven?' where 'knowest thou' is an inversion of 'thou knowest'.
However, in modern English, you can only do this with modals and auxiliaries like for example, 'He is helping you' becoming 'Is he helping you?'. There, the auxiliary verb 'to be' is inverted with the subject to form the question. What happens if you want to invert literally any other verb then? Well, there's where do-support comes in. English will put in the verb 'to do' so it can invert with that instead of the original verb.
Example: He knows the truth ==> He does know the truth ==> Does he know the truth?
Notice how the conjugation shifts from 'to know' to 'to do'? That's a trait of English putting in a verb because you can only have one conjugated verb per clause.
That process can be extended to the past by the way:
He knew the truth ==> He did know the truth ==> Did he know the truth?

primal igloo
#

oh ngl that’s kinda confusing because all look fine to me..

#

so sorry

#

because u typed so much

mighty barn
#

In French, inversion can still be done with every verb.
Ex: Il connait la vérité ==> Connait-il la vérité ?
However, the thing about inversion is that, while it's not difficult, it certainly is a bother. Why is that? Well, inversion in French has two annoying traits:
(1) When the verb in the third-person singular, you have to add a -t- if it ends in a vowel.
(2) If the subject is NOT a pronoun, you have to repeat the subject's pronoun form and invert that.
An example with (1) is the verb « parler » whose third person singular conjugation gives us « il parle ». Because it ends with a vowel (parle), you have to add a -t- to make « parle**-t-il ». If you remember your auxiliary conjugations, you might be able to guess where I'm heading to next: Any inversion in passé composé requires that -t- because the third person singular conjugation is « il a », just a vowel. So, « elle a parlé » becomes « a-t-**elle parlé ? ».
An example with (2) is the sentence « Le professeur parle ». Because the subject « le professeur » is a noun, we have to repeat that subject in noun form (le professeur is singular and masculine so « il »). So, we don't say: « Parle le professeur », but « Le professeur parle-t-il ? ».

Both of these annoying bits led French to create « est-ce que », which is « c'est que » inverted so it can act as dummy inversion just like do-support.
Il connait la vérité ==> C'est qu'il connait la vérité ==> Est-ce qu'il connait la vérité ?

The thing here is that because French is adding a new clause « c'est que » and not a verb, it doesn't modify the original sentence.
Il a connu la vérité ==> C'est qu'il a connu a vérité ==> Est-ce qu'il a connu la vérité ?

mighty barn
#

Why think you that this is fine?

#

Ever realised you this?

primal igloo
#

this is so funny

#

yea it’s wrong lol

mighty barn
#

My point is that you just slip « est-ce que » and go about your day

primal igloo
#

mhm

mighty barn
#

Le professeur a raison ==> Est-ce que le professeur a raison ?
Le professeur a été en retard => Pourquoi est-ce que le professeur a été en retard ?

#

Instead of
Le professeur a raison ==> Le professeur a-t-il raison ?
Le professeur a été en retard => Pourquoi le professeur a-t-il été en retard ?

primal igloo
#

how do I ask “did you watch Netflix last night” —>> est-ce que fait as-tu regarder le Netflix hier soir

mighty barn
#

Back to your original question, they would be phrased as such:
(1) Mes cheveux sont-ils bruns ?
(2) Est-ce que mes cheveux sont bruns ?
(3) Mes cheveux sont bruns ?

mighty barn
#

That's the beauty

primal igloo
#

what’s invert in simple words?

#

that’s the issue for me

versed forge
#

flip

#

tu as regardé, "tu as" gets flipped/inverted to as-tu regardé

primal igloo
#

est-ce as tu regardé netflix hier soir

mighty barn
#

The original sentence would be « Tu as regardé Netflix hier soir (You watched Netflix last night) » so just add « est-ce que » at the start and you're done:
« Est-ce que tu as regardé Netflix hier soir ? »

primal igloo
#

thanks ☺️

mighty barn
#

Your sentence can be asked in three ways:
(1) « As-tu regardé Netflix hier soir ? » [Formal]
(2) « Est-ce que tu as regardé Netflix hier soir ? » [Neutral]
(3) « Tu as regardé Netflix hier soir ? » [Informal]

#

Alright, any questions so far?

#

Point is, put « est-ce que » before the subject and that's it, you don't need to do anything else

mighty barn
#

It modifies a noun so it agrees with it in number and gender

#

Quelle heure est-il ?
What hour is it?

primal igloo
#

it’s very different o English

mighty barn
#

just in the agreement

#

Quelle est ta voiture préférée ?
Which is your favourite car?

Quelle voiture est ta préférée ?
Which car is your favourite?

primal igloo
#

“what is the hour” turned into “what hour is he/it” “

#

I’ve changed my mind

#

it makes more sense

#

It’s just “he” that throws its off

mighty barn
#

« il » there is impersonal so it can only mean 'it'

primal igloo
#

but at this point il isn’t even he

#

yea

primal igloo
mighty barn
mighty barn
#

it's a lot more versatile IMO

primal igloo
#

yes

#

I tired my best, my exam is after my lunch break

#

I’m hoping to do good

versed forge
#

how long have you been learning french again ?

primal igloo
#

1 year

#

I learned stuff from years ago too much it was just seasons and I couldn’t even say “it’s spring” or “what season is it” all I would say was l’hiver, le printemps, oh then I’d forogt l’été

#

so I don’t count that because it was very brief

#

Didn’t want to learn it back then

versed forge
#

this is a really good place to be in :)

primal igloo
#

I’d it really cuz it hasn’t even been a year

#

I’m proud of myself tbh

versed forge
#

as you should be !

primal igloo
#

I started class back in September and I couldn’t even count to 20 back then