fyrebeest

[main lava]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[wraith cloud]

yes you can

i personally dont because there's already the liaison between ils and ont

but sometimes I do, for examples "ils ont une fille"

i do it with this sentence

[dawn oasis]

There can be liasons between whatever your heart desires mon frère, every language has subjective details bc it's all made up as it goes along

[green apex]

I have noticed other natives pronounce liaison in those forbidden contexts. For instance, in between two rhythm groups as in / ils ont / un enfant adorable /| with a liaison in between "ont" and "un." They seem to ignore any sort of rules regarding rhythm groups. I would assume it is because they reorganized the rhythm groups, and split the groups differently as you mentioned was possible, but I realized that in this sentence, it is impossible to split it any other way, as that would result in a very long single rhythm group. I have read in phonetic books that you can't exceed 8 syllables in a rhythm group, and this definitely exceeds it if you divide the rhythm group differently. Ex: / ls ont un enfant adorable / as one rhythm group is entirely erroneous. And yet, I still hear natives pronounce this sentence with a liaison between "ont" and "un"?

I have also read in some articles on liaisons, that they say the opposite of other people. For instance, someone said that "Les enfants arrivent" has a forbidden liaison, while someone else said that the liaison is optional? I cannot decide if the people who labeled it as forbidden are because it is rarely used, but is still "technically" optional, or are they truly forbidden?

[dawn oasis]

You may be missing the point of my statement

[brazen anvil]

The vast majority of natives don’t even know what rythmic groups are.
The liaison between a verb and its objet/complément (“ils ont_un enfant”) is an optional one.

[green apex]

interesting ok, I guess the several books on phonetics I read are incorrect.

Thanks!

[dawn oasis]

I mean it's just that native speakers aren't going to consider their pronunciation in daily conversation. I wouldn't expect you to know exactly the pace at which you should speak in a given social context

[wraith cloud]

Maybe académiciens pronounce french correctly according to the books, but 99,9999% of the population just feels the language

[green apex]

well im part of the 1% i guess

[wraith cloud]

Depends on what's your goal, nobody can judge you

Just know that most people don't care about those specific rules

[dawn oasis]

And also most people will look at you funny if you strain pronuncing everything correctly, non?

[wraith cloud]

i meaaan

i guess it's not about the pronounciation, more about the intonation