#crazymilk7430
crystal pecan
vital latch
"Ce" is the masculine singular demonstrative adjective "this/that." "Cette" is feminine singular. "Cet" is masculine before a vowel sound. "Ces" is plural, irrespective of gender.
Only "ce" can be a pronoun, and it only goes with "être." Otherwise, use "ça." "Ceci" and "cela" can go with any verb and specifically distinguish "this (here)" and "that (there)."
Ce gars,
Cet homme,
Cette fille,
Ces enfants.
« C'est bon ; ce sont mes amis ; ce ne serait pas intéressant ; c'était un peu difficile ; ce fût une soirée mémorable. »
« Ça va ; ça a été un plaisir ; ça ne fonctionne pas. »
Ton exemple, « Cette fille s'appelle Émile. », est correct. Though I should note that "Émile" is a boy's name. A girl's alternative would be "Émilie" or even "Amélie."
chrome lodge
@timid burrow @thin sleet Let’s keep it within the threads
thin sleet
Ton exemple, « Cette fille s'appelle Émile. », est correct. Though I should note...
thanks!
chrome lodge
Also, just for some correction, while « ce/cet/cette/ces » can mean ‘this’, the distinction between ‘this’ and ‘that’ isn’t as important in French as it is in English so « cette fille » can be both ‘this girl’ and ‘that girl’.
thin sleet
wait, whats "cet" and "ces"?
chrome lodge
wait, whats "cet" and "ces"?
It was just explained by Chin
chrome lodge
Anyway, if the distinction between ‘this’ and ‘that’ is important, we add « -ci » or « -là » to the noun. « Je parlais de cette fille-là, pas cette fille-ci ! (I was talking about that girl, not this girl!) »
But again, this only works if that distinction is important; in most cases, the demonstrative adjective (the aforementioned « ce/cet/cette/ces ») with the noun suffices
thin sleet
while you're here, can you also explain what d'un means? i read in in duolingo
chrome lodge
while you're here, can you also explain what d'un means? i read in in duolingo
It could mean a myriad of things, what’s the full sentence?
thin sleet
je besoin d'un sac
chrome lodge
Ah so in that context it’s « of a »
It’s part of the verbal expression « avoir besoin de »
There’s a word-for-word translation of that in English, ‘to have need of’
I have need of a bag.
J’ ai besoin d’ un sac.
ofc the natural translation in English is, ‘I need a bag’ but that’s a form closer to the French and IIRC is actually derived from that
thin sleet
So will "Je besoin d'un sac" still be correct?
thin sleet
so when i have to talk about having/needing/related verbs, i have to use "J'ai"?
so the need of the bag is treated as an object?
thin sleet
oh
chrome lodge
It’s just that when you are using that expression, the entirety should be used
« Je besoin d’un sac, j’ai besoin un sac, j’ai d’un sac » 🚫
« J’ai besoin d’un sac » ✅
thin sleet
The need of a bag is treated as a direct object?
chrome lodge
Yup
You can’t really do anything to that structure other than changing the « de + object » as an adverbial pronoun but idk how far you’ve got
thin sleet
You can’t really do anything to that structure other than changing the « de + ob...
not much really, barely on the line of an actual conversaton and sentences
chrome lodge
and the want of a book is also an object, « je veux d'un livre »
Nope, « vouloir » takes a direct object, that « de » is unnecessary
« je veux un livre » suffices
thin sleet
so just "de veux un livre"
chrome lodge
Yeah
je*
Don’t think of it as ‘oh needing requires X thing’ but rather think of them as just expressions
I can say « J’ai besoin d’un livre »
but I can also say, « Il me faut un livre » or « Je nécessite un livre »
vital latch
@thin sleet, if somebody asked you to explain what "I've" means in English, you wouldn't explain that it expresses the 1st person present perfect. You'd explain what "I" means and then what "have" means and explain that the two words can contract together. So don't think of "d'un" as one word. It's two words that have been smooshed together to save time.
thin sleet
so its like a figure of speech developed over the years, kinda like "how's it going". It makes no literal sense but just came up!
chrome lodge
The issue is that each language has its own internal logic that isn’t really transparent, and this is really apparent when you look at stuff like transivity
The verb ‘to telephone’ and ‘to call’ are both transitive verbs in English, meaning that they take direct objects. ‘I call her, she telephones him.’
thin sleet
yeah i know thats the main thing thats stopped me from properly learning hindi. I do know marathi, but never got into hindi that much
chrome lodge
In French, however, « téléphoner » is intransitive while « appeler » is transitive so while you would say « je l’appelle » you would also say « elle lui téléphone » instead of « elle le téléphone »
Why the change? 🤷♂️
The reverse case is true for ‘to listen to/to hear’ and « écouter/entendre »; ‘listen’ is intransitive (you listen to someone) while ‘hear’ is transitive whereas both « écouter » and « entendre » are transitive
Why the change? 🤷♂️
chrome lodge
At this point, you shouldn’t try and formulate some sort of logic; you should just accept it
thin sleet
😦 succumbing to a language
thin sleet
In French, however, « téléphoner » is intransitive while « appeler » is transiti...
yeah! i learnt this in my french class! "Marie appeller Louis" and ""Elle téléphone à Marie."
thin sleet
The reverse case is true for ‘to listen to/to hear’ and « écouter/entendre »; ‘l...
and to hear and listen , you need a D.O. for both in french, but not in english. Hear always neads an object but listen is intransitive
thanks a lot, i appreciate this!
craggy sinew
@thin sleet @timid burrow @lost thistle Hello, please keep all replies and comments in threads. Merci !
teal badger
So will "Je besoin d'un sac" still be correct?
That would be like "I need of a bag"
Besoin is a noun, not a verb, so you can't use it like a verb on its own
That's why we say "I have need of"