hazio

[finite owl]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

[pure saddle]

Rien ne is negation too

https://french.kwiziq.com/revision/grammar/how-to-say-no-one-and-nothing-personne-ne-and-rien-ne-negative-expressions

[daring tusk]

I know, but I thought that "rien" is about "rien d'autre" only

[pure saddle]

« d'autre » just adds

nothing else counts
rien d'autre ne compte

you can remove it and the negation is still the same

[daring tusk]

And I've never saw "ne" before other half of negation, could it be "D'autre ne compte rien"?

[pure saddle]

no

« d'autre » on its own doesn't mean anything, it's an adjective

[daring tusk]

I mean, can I write this sentence with "ne" before "rien"?

[pure saddle]

not if you want to preserve the meaning

There's no other formulation to translate 'Nothing (verb)' than « Rien ne (verbe) »

[daring tusk]

Okay, so "Rien" is at the beggining because it acts like a subject also? Something like this?

[pure saddle]

like if you have, 'nothing works', the translation is « rien ne fonctionne », there's no other formulation like that

[pure saddle]

Yes, it's acting like a pronoun

[daring tusk]

Okay I think I understand, I was confused because I thought that in negation "ne" is always before the other half

Thanks

[pure saddle]

It is but with 'nothing' and 'no one' it's a special case

which is what the article I sent you said

[verbal garden]

Rien and personne are the opposite of quelque chose and quelqu'un, that's why they can easily take the subject position.
Plus they are the only negation particles that can be completed with an adjective. Since they are not nouns, you need to add de between the particle and the adjective.

[light furnace]

Those are not particles, they're adverbs or indefinite pronouns, the particle of negation is "ne" [also called a clitique because it is closely attached to the verb and never moves away from it]
The way to recognize whether it is a pronoun or an adverb is to question the verb and if "rien" comes back, then it is a subject, like in english. "Je mange rien" ==> rien = modifying the quality of "eating"
"Rien n'est mangé" ==> what is being eaten ? nothing" ==> rien is the subject.

When there's a lexicon carrying the negation accordingly to the "ne+ something" then it often works in the position of "indefinite pronoun+ ne"
Rien ne dit, Personne ne dit, aucun ne dit, etc etc.
There's exceptions to that, though. Sometimes, adjectives can also become indefinite pronouns, like "nul ne sait que", but for the most parts, the negation is often following the idea of indefinite pronoun + ne or ne + adverb