Usage of the future tense in the past

[upper moat]

Please be patient

Our volunteers look into many questions every day; sometimes it takes them a little while to answer.

Pro tip: you can rename the thread title with `.tr <thread name>`

Make it descriptive, including relevant context, but also to the point. This way you improve your chances of getting a more relevant and specific answer.

Usage of the future tense in the past

[paper lynx]

Describing the weather or people in the past is always imperfect

"Il faisait très chaud" It was very hot
"Elle était très belle" She was very beautiful

Accomplishments aren't really describing appearance or anything so that would be passé composé

"J'ai (reçu) un trophée" I got a trophy

[vapid sonnet]

@paper lynx ok so one moment I want to refer to something

"Mes parents recevaient le compliment sans brocher ni sourire et se bornaient à hocher du chef. Une fois que les garçons avaient tourné le dos, ils nous prenaient à témoin."

Would that not be in the passé composé?

ont reçu?

[paper lynx]

Both of them work in that situation

Mes parents recevaient le compliment sans brocher ni sourire et se bornaient à hocher du chef

Mes parents ont reçu le compliment sans brocher ni sourire et se bornaient à hocher du chef

It just slighty changes the meaning

[vapid sonnet]

@paper lynx How so?

[feral moon]

In English, there's this sense of, 'historic future' where 'would + verb' expresses the future but in the past. In French, however, it'll just be translated into the futur simple.
http://www.french-linguistics.co.uk/grammar/translation_would.shtml

[paper lynx]

The one in imperfective puts more emphasis on the duration of the action but the one in passé composé puts more emphasis on the completion of the task

[vapid sonnet]

Can that distinction be represented at all in English, because I am not sure how to conceptualize that

[vapid sonnet]

I had a feeling. Thank you

[paper lynx]

If someone says "Mes parents recevaient le compliment sans brocher ni sourire" It would be "My parents were receiving the compliment without broaching or smiling" this is more focus on the fact that they were receiving the compliment

If someone says "Mes parents ont reçu le compliment sans brocher ni sourire" This would be more focused on the compliment

Je faisais mes devoirs (The most important part is I was doing my homework, not if it was finished or not)
J'ai fait mes devoirs (The most important part is my homework is finished, not if I was doing it or not)

Imperfective is focus on the action
Perfective is focused on the completion of an action it is more solid

[vapid sonnet]

Interesting

[paper lynx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZh0XyhA2xA
Ignore the fact that this is Russian 😭 .
This rule follows for every language in Perfective and Imperfective Aspects
Helps you know when to use it

@vapid sonnet This video is actually better my bad

[feral moon]

Okay so I am curious about the imperfect thing because my instinct would also say passé composé which is why I looked up the story. It seems that this part of the story is used as background info, sort of a preamble before the real story starts, which is why it's in the imperfect.

[paper lynx]

They are both right but the passé composé is more prefered

[feral moon]

Yes, they're both right, but it's also important to take in the context of the phrase.

[paper lynx]

You are very right about the context. Since it is sort of like a preamble before the real story starts mosts texts would be found in the imperative

[feral moon]

Basically from, « Leurs plateaux en équilibre … les garçons de café voletaient » until « Et moi, je ne comprenais pas … ces gens orgueilleux … rivalisaient avec les garçons qui les servaient » it's telling the background of the story which is why it's exclusively imparfait there with a few plus-que-parfait.

The real story starts at the bottom with, « Un jour, je décidai … je me tournai » which is when you start seeing the passé simple or the literary equivalent of the passé composé.

[vapid sonnet]

I still think that's weird because all of those actions are considered finished. Like, to say "They were receiving the compliment with a x, y z" once the waiter had left, they were calling us as witness. like, those are closed events, and they cannot logically occur one after another if theyre in the imperfect thats why It's weird to me.

Like, the rest I can see pretty imperfectly

[vapid sonnet]

Also, someone cannot be "More french" she was saying last, she was adding by way of explanation "we are more educated......"

[paper lynx]

?

[vapid sonnet]

I was mid editing it and forgot to change it lmao

I was saying how can someone be Saying "we're more french" and be saying "we're more educated" at the same time

[paper lynx]

where was that said?

[feral moon]

That’s just how the imparfait works; though it’s closest in meaning to the English past progressive, it’s used more wildly. In descriptions belonging to the past, background information to the actual story, the imparfait is used.

This is the first chapter of Harry Potter. Notice how the passé simple didn’t make an appearance until it was explicitly stated that the main event was going to start?

« Lorsque Mr et Mrs Dursley s’éveillèrent, au matin du mardi où commence cette histoire […] »

[vapid sonnet]

No like Honeslty most of it I understand works in the imperfect but like the one little instance where they spoke I can only see as passé composé if it's one person saying two different things, they cannot physically say them concurrently.

[feral moon]

She’s saying that French people are educated, well-mannered, read a lot, and know more places than Paris, implying that the person who said that compliment had neither the education, manner, nor knowledge befitting a French person.

[feral moon]

All past tenses are considered finished, it’s just that where the passé composé describes actions as in things that don’t have much duration and have a defined before/after condition, and imparfait describes background events that have a duration without a defined beginning or end. However, both actions are considered finished.

[vapid sonnet]

But with those imperfect states they were all happening around that time or concurrently. RIght?

[feral moon]

Not necessarily, one of the functions of the imparfait in narration serves to describe background events before the story began, sort of like the status quo before the main story interrupts it, so it’s not always considered concurrent.