#Federal Tax Request, For Non-Standard businesses

84 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tawdry glacier
#

I'd like a revision to the tax system for my Gambling Company as well as for potential other businesses such as (Garbage Collection, Transportation, Private Banking, Housing/Real Estate).
My request change the tax from a 20 percent flat tax on all earnings to a percentage tax on my winnings(after investments and losses).
Much like a VAT tax. Potentially test it out on a few businesses first?

If this is to complicated I'd like to request a lower tax or a other alternative solution to make the company work for my operation.
20 percent flat tax makes it really hard to run a Gambling organization that still tries to give people the best chances. (51/49 chances are now 55/45 chances).

I'd also like to hear other people thoughts on a system where tax is more like a VAT tax.

atomic pier
#

VAT-like taxes are barely possible in Eco's framework, so this part is mostly out of question (otherwise, we would had one in place already).
I could see the same problem being relevant with custom exemption from general tax law - exemption itself is easy (even though legally questionable), but how the government is supposed to keep track on resulting profit, if it is tied only to rather random transactions instead of trade?

tawdry glacier
#

A simple solution to tracking only profit would be periodically checking how much they spend/ how much they earned?

bleak spade
#

The problem with profit tax (or increase of wealth tax) is pocket papers. It's very easy to just buy and carry around some expensive research papers that you sell just before you want to buy something. That way you keep your wealth low and won't be taxed in a wealth tax.

#

Also for the government to make a similar amount of income the percentage needs to be way higher. Talking about 50%+ tax. Don't think that will go well ether

tawdry glacier
#

I think you are confused this is not a tread about wealth tax.

atomic pier
#

So in the end, most reliable solution would be "to have an accountant" on government side, and knowing how things are - it is rather unrealistic.

#

I personally don't see realistic automated solution to it. Does not means it does not exists, but if you have any law designs - I'd like to study them.

tawdry glacier
#

A simplistic approach. Every 30 minutes or so you check (money spend in the last 30 minutes) - (money earned in the last 30 minutes) and tax a percentage on the resulting amount.

#

though i'd recomend using both a flat tax and this system simutaniously.

#

as this system will insentivise buying items which will help economy flow alot, and the other flat tax is still a good system to collect tax on those additional sales that will be happening for people trying to get their spending high.

#

the reason i recomend a short timer like 30 minutes is so people can't cheese the system (or would have to put in alot of effort) by buying alot of items every 30 minutes.

atomic pier
#

It is possible, but as Frosty already mentioned, it is also highly exploitable, and making condition check as short as possible may (or may not, that needs testing) burden the server more than it should.
On top of that, it is not something applicable to general population, thus would require manual intervention with assignment of titles or special districts.

#

As funny isolated experiment - that may work. But not as general solution.

bleak spade
#

ah you mention the same too :). Still it has similar problems as wealth tax in that you can buy goods after selling to remove your wealth increase

tawdry glacier
#

that's why i suggest combinating the two

bleak spade
#

that is possible and does work

tawdry glacier
#

cause wealth tax is good for economy even if you can cheese it.

#

if people cheese it its good cause every time they cheese it we get a smaller flat tax.

bleak spade
#

used to be the way years ago that there was both wealth based taxes and sales taxes

atomic pier
tawdry glacier
#

but then you will make much more on flat tax

#

even at a lower percentage

rotund plank
bleak spade
#

nice

tawdry glacier
#

what does wealth tax mean?

#

(wealth now - wealth x time ago) * tax rate. this doesnt seem like a wealth tax.

#

but a profit tax/vat.

bleak spade
#

its based on increasing wealth

tawdry glacier
#

wealth would be difference percentage for more wealthier people which im against.

atomic pier
bleak spade
#

so it is different, but has a few of the same issues as a wealth tax (as is avoidable)

tawdry glacier
#

my simplistic solution does the job

atomic pier
#

In essence, it is still the same thing as with wealth tax - tax on currency amount at user's account.

tawdry glacier
#

?

#

no in a wealth tax you get punished by owning a large sum of money which is quite easily cheeseable buy buying assets.

#

in a profit tax you get punished only for the money you profited. but it will always be the same percentage.

atomic pier
#

Nevermind then, those are just words and names.
The point is, there are still enough of mechanical looplholes to exploit it, so you'll need additional tax to balance it out, and good luck negotiating it with current government.

tawdry glacier
#

so what you're saying i need to become the goverment

#

to test out new tax methods to spice up the server gotcha.

atomic pier
#

I personally don't believe "double tax' like this would work, legality-wise, even if you get there, but that's rather my opinion, not to discourage you trying.

rotund plank
tawdry glacier
#

the idea would be to have people apply for it and test it out with a few.

bleak spade
#

It does "work", but you will see that one of the two brings in way more than the other. So is it worth it?

tawdry glacier
#

yes. if it encentivises people to not sit on 50k yes.

bleak spade
#

I think a profit tax would work better on federal level instead on town level

tawdry glacier
#

this is about federal yes.

bleak spade
#

but not sure how quickly people move if they don't like a tax

tawdry glacier
#

even if the profit tax makes less money, by people cheesing around it by making alot of investments. the flat tax will compensate for it.

#

we just need to find the right numbers.

atomic pier
tawdry glacier
#

more chores?

atomic pier
#

One thing if condition is unavoidable, and another when you know how easily such tax could be evaded. People would not miss the opportunity.

tawdry glacier
#

but it wont really be evaded

#

it will make the economy flow faster resulting in more moeny for the goverment through the flat tax.

atomic pier
#

Money-wise - no. In people's minds - it will.

tawdry glacier
#

that's a good thing. let's say the flat tax is 15 percent instead of 20 percent. and we add a 5 percent profit tax.

#

people will be incentivised to buy things to reduce their money on their accounts and the money will go around more which in theory should make it so we get a similar amount of money.

#

albe it with different numbers.

bleak spade
#

I personally would set it more 10 - 15. Might lower sales to 15 and set wealth to 15 too

#

the profit is avoidable so needs to be way higher to have any effect than sales

tawdry glacier
#

the number discusion doesnt matter alot its more about hte idea we will figure out which numbers work the best after testing.

atomic pier
tawdry glacier
atomic pier
#

My government term is ending in few hours, and I have absolutely no desire to work with what's going to be next gov

tawdry glacier
#

no like im saying as a person

#

like would you take this deal for your business rather then the 20 percent flat you currently have.

atomic pier
#

Hm. Probably still no, for small assortment of reasons, but that is somewhat negotiable.

tawdry glacier
#

ah let me hear? if you are willing to share?

rotund plank
atomic pier
bleak spade
#

Don't know if that would still work when trying to import it though 😄

atomic pier
rotund plank
#

pre 10.0 laws dont work all to well

#

I know a lot of the wt laws had to rewritten when 10.0 came around

rotund plank
tawdry glacier
atomic pier
#

All in all - don't listen to PM, listen to Teal instead.

tawdry glacier
#

fear enough

bleak spade
#

lets go with the taxes 😛