#Rebalance 5th star to boost lategame food & housing markets

42 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lone tiger
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Right now, even with careful minmaxing of food and housing scores, the fifth star can only be achieved in the last few days of the cycle. Reducing the XP requirement, so that it would be possible to get the fifth star a few days earlier, would make it more worthwhile to invest in top-tier food and housing, improving the endgame market for the related professions.

zealous frost
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I actually prefer that WT has only 4 stars realistically accessible and 3 more the average for most active players. It means more commerce is needed to achieve anything.

That said, why would access to a fifth star (and thus making 4 stars more easily accessible) make it more worthwhile to invest in top-tier food and housing? Is there a problem in the end game with top-tier food and housing being in low demand? As far as food, I'm seeing this cycle that top-tier food is still in higher demand than lesser tier foods at this moment.

lone tiger
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thus making 4 stars more easily accessible
i'm actually not suggesting that the xp requirement on the first four stars change, those seem well-balanced to me - only the fifth, since there's more or less no way to get it early enough to be useful.

why would access to a fifth star make it more worthwhile to invest in top-tier food and housing?
right now, once you have your fourth star, there's no reason to invest in food and housing beyond maintaining the 50 food/80 housing requirement for advanced profession labor. in my case, this results in eating tons of the cheapest 50 point food with no consideration for nutrition balance, as well as no incentive to upgrade from a t3 to a t4 house. it would be fun for me to keep managing nutrition and build a better house in the endgame, but the fifth star just comes too late to be worth such a major investment.

Is there a problem in the end game with top-tier food and housing being in low demand?
i don't know if there's a problem as i don't have the related professions, but increased market activity seems desirable to me regardless of current market conditions

primal token
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I kind of agree, but the 4th star is already that. To most ppl the 4th star is last week unless working hard to have it soon enough to use it. Also 3 jobs is more than enough. So I'd rather have the 4th star 10% harder to get.

misty briar
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A better solution to making food more meaningful would be to make XP more meaningful and have uses outside of just stars. An XP upkeep for running workbenches, multiplied by the upgrades installed, would be one example of how XP could be made more relevant to the gameplay and more required as the game progresses.

sage quarry
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I actually don't have a 4th star, and I already felt 3rd job was a filler, but I'm just a regular player

clever locust
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I agree with the argument that it's basically pointless to maximise housing and food after the 3rd or 4th star (depends on your playstyle)

But I think making the 5th star reachable is a semi-optimal solution because it just shifts the Problem: ppl will argue the same for a 6th star then.

So maintaining Food and Housing for late-game professions is maybe a better option? Like the housing/food requirements that are currently active on WT. But a little bit more sophisticated

edgy geode
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@rich widget

rich widget
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Arguably "why even have the 5th star" would make sense in a way but on the other hand we cant really stop levelups natively with how the entire experience system works it would just say "Next star in 450 days"

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Summary being that the goal of the experience rate of White Tigers settings is to have a player that participates and is somewhat active (ranging from casual just renting or whatnot) get around 2-3 stars through the cycle with the 4th as potential bonus if wanted as possibility.

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Any general issues with content to make sure those professions all got stuff to do is a whole other discussion though and is something we are working towards addressing with base game content outside White Tiger specific control.

edgy geode
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Not sure if the fifth star could be moved just a little bit earlier

rich widget
buoyant cosmos
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i think this is not a problem, i think people that play 18h a day should be given the same oppurtunities of people that only play a few hours a day, i think if you want to play more it, and this is WT specific, you would do it for the good of the server and not for more individual rewards

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the goal should always be community on WT not indivisualism

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i would rather give people benefits that have fallen behind instead of giving the ability for people to get further ahead

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the end goal is the same, more total amount of stars for the good of the server

twin pine
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the more stars the less thought the server puts in cooperation. with 5 stars being available easier WT could just have the settings of the other servers.

pearl sky
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For WT I don't find it important at all to mess with the gain rate of stars, yes 5 is possible but out of reach for most. This is how it should be if trade and cooperation is the focus. Current and in several of my previous runs runs there have always been companies (groups of players from 2 to 5) I've never had to visit because they rarely if ever had a reason to put up a buy order.

pulsar grail
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With the variety bonus nerfed to hell I feel like casting some vile necromancy on this thread to bring it back to life.

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The variety changes combined with the subtotal needs for many jobs make it very difficult to keep food balance and food variety up, so some changes to XP seem needed if the same pace of stars is still the goal.

pearl sky
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I'd much rather see a hard limit on 3 stars for a 30 day cycle. Not many who shoot for 5 stars can actually keep up with the work load it takes to have a store fully stocked all the time. Its more the convenience of doing more things instead of trading that's appealing to people, rather then the urge to supply everyone else.

slate mist
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Yeah I'd rather not make it easier to vertically integrate 5 skills

pulsar grail
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Maybe I should just make a new thread for this. Its not just about 5th star, but all stars. Especially starting out its now much more difficult to get any variety bonus as you cant just munch a single charred and raw food item you could even get from the same plant.
So all stars will be slower going forward and the question is if that is the intention.
Well, guess we best ask @edgy geode?

rich widget
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Will probably not adjust anything particular with it as we got some pretty big housing rebalance planned for 10.3 and i dont feel like sitting down adjusting stuff twice just because you dont get as super high of a bonus from variety anymore 😅

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Unless one of the gms decides to tweak it a bit

frosty nymph
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I personally would rather see more trading, a nerf to hotels, and an easier way to make a decent house that can be more for individuals without it taking hours of time. Having to build 4 of each room type is abysmal and ends up just being a tower. I would rather have building maintenance but easier to build a house. insert wish for scaffolding here So I really hope this is part of the housing rebalance! 😄 Being forced to build a skyscraper or a huge house that eats up tons of claims just isn't sustainable for large servers. Something that fits into 4-6 claims should be reachable without having to build it into a hotel. I am excited to see outside xp items as a category though! I really love this game but I don't want to spend my life on it and still not be able to keep up with the hard core players. I want to be able to fill a need without having to live on the game. When one player can do that then an economy is no longer needed.

slate mist
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So you want housing to be easier but hotels to be harder? Those are at odds with each other though. I would say with the old system hotels were much easier to scale, but as of now, building a single person house compared to a 3 person hotel is pretty similar in effort required per person.

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My 3 person hotels were around 18 rooms for 3 people, my single person house is 7 or 8.

edgy geode
edgy geode
frosty nymph
# slate mist So you want housing to be easier but hotels to be harder? Those are at odds with...

I want hotels to be harder because they are ugly. Building towers to maximize makes ugly buildings. That's why I want housing to be easier so people don't have to build ugly xp towers. More single player homes means more buildings around and things to look at, visit, and enhance a town. If everyone is living in a giant skyscraper hotel in a tiny 4 by 4 claim then towns look barren. Housing takes a lot of time to setup for the average working player with a family. You would have more houses if they didn't have to spend half a day building a house. Sometimes players like my husband only have an hour to play. That means building a house would take like a week for him depending of if he has to get all his own supplies for the building blocks. He said it took him about 12 hrs to make the last house he made. This is from the perspective of a new player. So it comes down to do we cater to the softcore average player, new players experience, or hardcore long term players. Is there a way to satisfy different play styles? I see all the time players say they don't have time to make a house. I would like to see that change. By the time an average player gets a house done they have been left behind in terms of xp and star gain. It often times leads to players quitting.

frosty nymph
twin pine
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i agree with sunlights concerns and am also looking forward to the changes.

slate mist
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You clearly haven't seen my hotels in the past 😢

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I do get the concern of falling behind if you don't have time to build housing though

frosty nymph
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Punishing ugly housing would be a better solution and rewarding nice looking homes to maybe boost the housing value without it being easier to abuse could be a good answer for this at least.

twin pine
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never personal mate. the exception doesn't make the rule. but! it's not accidental the box is a design that never fails. especially when fitting in stockpiles. LLS requires a 3x3 grid. not much left to play with when you work around it. i had a plan this cycle! didn't complete it. but still.
the rooms itself all have to be roughly the same bigness to fit in everything for a score. i hate to have a kitchen as big as a living room. why do i want 769 butchery tables installed anyway!
i'm sure it was something that came to be due to what was offered to the players. so i'm very interested to see what's next. the cube will never go, but the pain to build a suitable house might.

sonic hemlock
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Encouraging building through legislation might be an easy thing to set up for this goal maybe? Taxation being less harsh if the player has a certain level of housing bonus, this tax pays for a subsidy on building material purchase or placement potentially? Might encourage more people to build housing, but does also lead, I suppose, to either more 3 person houses or dumb skyscrapers

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Whenever I've played on white tiger though I've always enjoyed the lack of skills available, though it is somewhat punitive for those who are not really planning ahead if they have any aspirations on a late game profession, but that's very much buyer beware and a "problem" of all eco servers with slow skill gain, not at all unique to white tiger (personally prefer low skill gain as it's helpful for trade and collaboration)