#Government Tax Relief and Redistribution of funds.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dusk talon
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Heres my thought, and its open to discussion obviously as this is something that could be potentially used (even on private servers) moving forward.

I would like to propose a tax cut to people in both towns and states of a miniscule amount, to allow those same states/towns the opportunity to get taxes without being federally controlled or requiring federal interaction.

Federal sales tax is currently 20%. I propose a tax cut of 3% in order to encourage taxes being created by states and towns in the effect of:
State Tax 2%
Town Tax 1%

Federal Sales tax would take the total sales tax and multiply by .97, creating a relief of 3%

This would be a net win for all i feel for a miniscule reduction in taxes by opening a pathway for both states and towns to have a place in the budget without pushing more taxes onto citizens.

If a state or town decides to opt out of taxing their citizens, they cant provide infrastructure, but the trade off is their citizens gain a tax cut of 3% for the state and towns not acting on it, and for those states and towns that DO want to have taxes for community projects and infrastructure, they have the funding without feeling like they are forcing MORE taxes on players, who are already potentially struggling due to high taxes in low economic areas.

Please let me know your thoughts on the subject. TLDR: Follows

TLDR:

Federal Sales tax 20% > 20% * .97 (3% cut to federal taxes) to allow states to charge a 2% tax, and Towns to charge a 1% tax without increasing tax burden on players.

If states and towns do not charge a tax, its a 3% tax releif for citizens, if they do choose to tax, it doesnt feel like they are gouging their citizens.

State taxes would be Sales tax 20% * .02
Town Taxes would be Sales Tax 20% * .01
plush sand
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what about the rebate system ? so that the towns have rebate with the fed gov so they can buy things ( eg land / claims / stake / research ) from the fed gov, and use it for their town, without actually messing with money itself

midnight grove
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The big issue I have with towns taxing sales is that when selling, you can't easily know what tax will hit you.
As such, I'd prefer a single fed tax and distribution to settlements.
But it is a good thing for towns to be able to choose to tax less to draw people in.
So I'm mixed on that question.
Also towns (should) have duties, so they need some kind of income

dusk talon
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if you plan for 20% and your state and town dont charge a tax, thats 17% tax, but planned for 20% so you still earn money, if you get hit for 20%, thats planned for, basically.

midnight grove
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A solution I see is to use other than trade tax to finance the town. This would only affect citizens, but this has issues with guaranteeing it stays below the 10/15% of income of someone possibly having 0 income.
I am no expert in macro eco economy. With the changes this cycle it will be tough to win, financially speaking. So even 25% tax might require tricks to pay for everything.

So yeah, I don't have a perfect solution for this 😦

dusk talon
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Well thank you for your input 😄 difficult problem to sort out lol

rich pagoda
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I don't think you can check if someone/action is in a town

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Would love to do things just outside towns (not just taxes), but never found something like that in the law system

dusk talon
rich pagoda
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No. Not last time I checked

dusk talon
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so it only really works based on town made districts or sales tax then? cause i know if they are a citizen you can use that as a trigger, just being a citizen

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cause being a citizen is a demographic so thats easy enough

rich pagoda
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You can use districts, but towns can change in influence over time.

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For citizens demografic you need to specify the demographic manually. If a new town is created it's not automatically added

dusk talon
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well you only charge tax to those benefiting from it, so if transaction was made by property owner belonging to town demographic, charge sales tax 20% * .02, that solves the trigger issue

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thats why its a town/state government job, not a federal

rich pagoda
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But you don't know if it happened in that town

dusk talon
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you do based on where the shop was located

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location of currency transaction

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we banned shop cart transactions on new amsterdam land that way

rich pagoda
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That is a law I need to check out then

dusk talon
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so basically youd set it to being if the transaction was made on owned land, owned by a citizen of your state/town, apply the tax to the transaction

rich pagoda
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But I can own a shop in every town with just being citizen in one

dusk talon
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yes, and you still are a citizen of one town/state, therefore youre still taxed because your a citizen

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no matter where your shop is, you are still a resident, so you are still taxed

rich pagoda
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Actually sounds like you are targeting non citizen stores, not just carts

dusk talon
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nono, as of this conversation, im refering to the shops, our law didnt do what im saying now, thats just how the local tax would take affect for peoples towns/stores

rich pagoda
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No a law is only active in the influence. If I open a store in new Amsterdam it uses that tax, not Unica tax which I'm citizen of

midnight grove
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If you're citizen of town A and set up a shop in town B, I think it creates a hole in the influence of town B

dusk talon
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you dont think you should pay the tax of the region you set your shop in?

dusk talon
midnight grove
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You indeed use their stake. But your citizen is only one town

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So basically an outsider buying a stake from a town reduces its influence

dusk talon
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i see, so the issue is, if Town A resident sets up a shop in Town B, that they wont be subject to Town A taxes?

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or the issue is they WILL be ?

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Because to me, if you are a resident of a town, no matter where you set up shop, you should be subject to the taxes and laws of the town, as you are a citizen of said town

rich pagoda
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I would think they wouldn't be subject to town a taxes in shop b, but if town b loses influence over that plot they also not subject to tax of town b

dusk talon
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From what i understand, is town B loses the influence over where Citizen of Town A places their store, and they are still subject to Town A's laws?

rich pagoda
dusk talon
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even if its based on if youre a citizen, not so much based on location?

rich pagoda
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Trade is a location based action

dusk talon
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yes but you can add If location or Citizen has demographic of citizen of town A

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which means on town A property, or on Citizen of Town A property at that point?

rich pagoda
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Town a can't tax in town b that way as the law isn't active there

dusk talon
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Maybe thats something i need to test, i might try that, to implement a tax for new amsterdam of some super miniscule amount, to see if i can set up a shop in unica and still get taxed on my transactions?

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i thought the laws were based on not only location but also citizenship?

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wait a second

rich pagoda
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Location first

dusk talon
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so im confused what the issue is?

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that Town A wouldnt get sales tax from it?

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because the shop is made outside of its juristiction?

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this is hard to picture in my head, sorry haha

rich pagoda
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Town A can't ever tax anything happening outside influence A

dusk talon
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even on its own citizens?

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you only ever want to tax your own citizens id imagine or trade happening on your land right?

rich pagoda
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Yes. It can tax it's citizen every hour, but not based on actions (like trade) outside the influence

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If you want to do it or not is something else

dusk talon
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so, making a town law

on trade
where citizen has demographic Citzen of Town A
  tax 20% * .02

wouldnt work?

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or rather, it would only work within city limits?

rich pagoda
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Yes

dusk talon
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hmm

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yeah that creates an issue in that circumstance then

rich pagoda
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Also unconstitutional, but should work inside the influence

dusk talon
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wait taxes are unconstitutional?

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wtf is the fed tax then? xD

rich pagoda
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Citizenship based taxes are

dusk talon
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how are you supposed to get money for town/state taxes then

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if its not based on who lives there

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im not saying use it to tax outsiders, its tax for the people that live where the taxes are being collected for infrastructure

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i live in town A so town A taxes me for living there

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its the opposite of an exemption xD

rich pagoda
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You are allowed to tax, but not differently based on the residency

dusk talon
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wouldnt i be taxing every person then, for a tax that only benefits town A?

rich pagoda
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Or that is how I interpreted it

dusk talon
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that seems backwards?

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Town A should charge taxes to Town A residents, so that Town A can build infrastructure for its people, why would i tax Town B people for Town A's infrastructure? (unless its on owned land by Town A)

midnight grove
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My understanding is citizen of A with a shop in B gets taxed in B shop according to A laws (to be tested)

dusk talon
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yeah and that makes sense to me, because Town A citizen, even though they own the shop in Town B, they still fall under the juristiction of Town A's laws supposedly

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because they are residents of Town A

midnight grove
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Which is unfair because B makes the roads that allow customers to come to that shop, but does get taxes in return

dusk talon
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Oh wait, So Citizen A in Shop B pays no Town B taxes?

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none at all?

midnight grove
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IRL, I think you would be taxed with a mix of town A and B. There was a lengthy discussion on that a month ago

dusk talon
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that sounds like thats an issue with the law system then if it cant be calculated falling under both

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yeah exactly

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you pay both taxes

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that makes sense to me completely

midnight grove
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To me, the shop and the land below become A land when the A citizen plants the B stake

dusk talon
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the cost of doing business in other states/countries is you pay your own towns income tax, plus the income tax of another state due to doing business there

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as in, if i make 100$ on town A land, at 10$ tax, i pay 10$ tax. If Town B has 10$ tax, and Town A resident sets up a shop there, they are paying 10$ for Town A tax (as they are still a resident of town A) and 10$ town B tax as its on their land

midnight grove
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I think you can have a residency tax. Actually, selling stakes is this, to an extent. I've never heard anyone saying a tax if X per day per claim would be wrong

dusk talon
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im not sure how you would create a state/town tax then

midnight grove
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But since laws only apply within jurisdiction, two towns cannot tax the same transaction

dusk talon
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just anything that happens on their own land

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so that makes Town A citizens exempt from Town B taxes?

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due to the way settlement claims work?

midnight grove
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I'm pretty sure you can't even detect using laws that your citizen traded in a store outside of your influence

inland crater
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Town A people selling goods in Town B would be hit by Town Bs tax as they are selling in Town B's influence

void lodge
dusk talon
inland crater
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town A person can only create a claim in town b if the stake is a homestead or a town stake of that town. If it is a homestead, they are prompted to be annexed when settling, if it is a town claim stake, it can only be from town b so it is still under the influence of town b

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the only time there should be holes in influences is a company bug or a homestead not joining the town. any claims made after a town is formed and in that influence will cause them to auto join the town

dusk talon
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okay so if a town were to implement a tax based on citizenship to their own town.
Town A tax 1$
Town B Tax 1$
Citizen A shopA tax= 1$
Citizen B Shop B Tax = 1$
Citizen A Shop B Tax = 2$?

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since they pay both Town A tax for being a citizen, and Town B Tax for being under the influence of Town B taxes?

inland crater
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sales takes wouldnt/shouldnt be applied to a citizen from both towns, only one and that would be where the transaction was made

dusk talon
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so you can bypass your own citizenship taxes by just selling outside of your towns radius?

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that seems kinda borked

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youre still a resident of the town and still benefit from their infrastructure, so you should be hit with both taxes id imagine?

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the only option is to charge sales tax on your own influence, then charge income tax on all your citizens if they sell outside of your influence?

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or rather just a wealth tax

inland crater
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sales takes are always levied on teh one receiving the money. the location where they receive the money is the taxation system thats applied to them. I think you are mistaking two different kinds of taxations. One would be income, the other is sales. I am talking about sales.

dusk talon
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yes so am i

inland crater
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I wouldnt know if a wealth tax would work on the town/state level so sorry, cant answer it

dusk talon
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so in this instance

image.png
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citizen A in town B would only be paying Town B taxes?

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on sales tax that is

inland crater
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yes

dusk talon
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even making a law that charges sales tax based on citizenship, wouldnt take affect on B property even if it was made in Town A?

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like on transaction, if shop owner has demographic Town A?

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it wouldnt work in town B unless enacted there by Town B itself?

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it wouldnt be A + B taxes, it would still be only B taxes?

inland crater
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Yes, anything that happens in town b is effected by town b laws in terms of sales taxes specifically. charging based on citizenship is weird and seems like an unneeded step

dusk talon
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hmm

inland crater
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it would only be one town tax, one state tax, and one federal tax is the laws dont mess up

dusk talon
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so the only way for Town A to get money from the Citizen A sales in Town B would be an income/wealth tax then

inland crater
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if its possible, yes. Outside of that, you just have to tax sales within your town or generate income otherways

dusk talon
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got it, so sales tax is only effective if the sales take place within your district

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like if Unica had a sales tax, and New Amsterdam had a sales tax, i could avoid Unica Sales tax by setting up shop in New Amsterdam even if im a citizen of Unica?

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since its out of juristiction essentially

inland crater
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yes you would be taxed under New Amsterdam

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well should be

dusk talon
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got it. that kinda blows xD

inland crater
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theres room for the random "laws messed up" and such

dusk talon
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yeah ofc

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just doesnt make sense not to be able to tax your own citizens no matter where they go, as long as they are citizens of your state/town

inland crater
dusk talon
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yeah, its covered by wealth taxes

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typically sales tax is a state/city level thing, and Federal is income base

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we have the opposite here

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federal is taking sales tax and not wealth

inland crater
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Yea sales is location based, wealth is income based

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Two different things

dusk talon
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yeah, im aware, you pay sales tax where the sales happen, and wealth where you reside

inland crater
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Federal technically takes income

dusk talon
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yeah income/sales are practically sononomous so

inland crater
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Its just called sales to cover it all. It takes rent as well. Theres no wealth tax here but that can change if the gov wants to levy one

dusk talon
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i almost feel like federal should be wealth based, and state/town should be sales tax based

inland crater
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just currently 3 taxes are in effect for federal level. Sales, Rent, and Company scaling now (?).

dusk talon
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company scaling makes sense, thats a large undertaking for a city/state, rent, idk anything about that as i dont rent, but sales yeah idk

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sales seems state/town level to me personally

inland crater
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Feds need the most money and sales tax brings in the most so thats why they would get the most

dusk talon
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feds need the most because theres no other government infrastructure setup in state level yet

inland crater
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well i shouldnt say the most, its why they levy it. money is needed for global projects that need to be done to complete the cycle

dusk talon
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not on scale at least

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research tax makes sense, infrastructure outside of ports seems to be more of a state financed thing to me

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basically if theres a federal port budget for new amsterdam, new amsterdam should be getting that money from the gov

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same to unica and all that

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then their representative state should have the funding to procure the labor themselves

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rather than big brother federal xD

inland crater
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the lasor also cost a lot to make

dusk talon
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yeah that again, is a global effort, not just located in one area on the map

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makes sense thats federal

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but the port on X continent, or roads specific to X Continent, seems more a local issue to me than a federal one

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idk maybe its because we started with a federation, and didnt start from a town up that it feels weird, almost backwards

inland crater
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federal ports is new this cycle so cant comment on that really

dusk talon
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from scratch towns would have taxes, then move to states, then fed, so it would be trickle up instead of trickledown

inland crater
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other then theres no guarantee there will be states or towns that will man them

dusk talon
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purely depends on population of state/town so fair enough

inland crater
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More so the federal district is made prior to the cycle starting

dusk talon
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like i dont think anyone from other countrys has come to new amsterdam to build roads, its been all us, basically the city/towns here building our roads locally

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true

void lodge
inland crater
stuck elm
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I like the idea of making states/towns use tax and fed tax less, but they would need to take over some services that actually need to be covered by the fed gov

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  • it would need a "law" that make them obligated to tax between x and y % so there are no places that don't tax anyone