#Renting tax shenanigans aside

1162 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

digital pollen
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The same does apply for those that have the necessary law experience and are willing to repeatedly go to the government.

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People with that knowledge and will also aren't super common.

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And with experience even less.

sacred kite
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The PM expected some magnificent building and he got T1 big bulky and empty on the inside

digital pollen
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Well, in that case the contract maybe was poorly made?

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The expenses should be controlled by Gov, no?

sacred kite
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It really was

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Everything was poorly done at that point with the deal. That why we will remember it for a long long time

ruby sundial
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Oh yeah, that time Rev used an alternative Alias to be the PM so no one ever knew he decided to do government once

digital pollen
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wut

ruby sundial
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Rev didn't play that cycle

digital pollen
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😮

sacred kite
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I believe the cycle I meant Toad or Toaed was PM. He basically wanted to spend money on getting beautiful buildings for the government in Unica

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But got taken advantage of I guess

digital pollen
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Well, can happen to new players.

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They at least tried

sacred kite
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True, it just wasnt fun people blaming him for a lot of things, like you said, they were new.

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And it was a terror cycle when taxes didnt work cause of test cycle

ruby sundial
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There it is 😄

digital pollen
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The only cycle that had a notable play difference was the food animation one

sacred kite
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Yeah that was the one, with the food animations

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Playtest summer 2022 I think

digital pollen
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yeh 9.6

olive mural
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Unlikely, to expensive 😄

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I have to agree with Daniel on government business not being good, you are almost taking away a skill choice for players who may then decide to stop playing for that cycle if they had no idea it was going to happen.

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Social housing could be the exception though but to not take away a game choice for other players it would need to be limited in some way and/or to be for low income players.

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The simple solution would be a rent cap scale based on house score, but not sure many governments would want to do that as it would reduce there income from rent.

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I think social housing was tried when the feature was new as well with a specific area in unica for housing, Wasn’t much interest in building it until later in the cycle I believe.

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I also liked the scaled tax idea this cycle based on how many residents a landlord has but that wasn’t developed.

junior torrent
nimble pivot
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Didn‘t want to really invest myself into this thread but I can give you some numbers. For my initial T4 building I had last cycle I spent 20k in building materials (tons of framed glass) that would‘ve otherwise went into the production of iron/copper/steel bars or research papers, 30k in furniture that we had to buy and order from so many different professions, also take the time to get all those different items + building time + organizing and setting up the plot into account. Let‘s assume 50k investment. Would‘ve taken us ~5 days to even out the investment to make a profit. With 25% rent tax that was ~7 days. Now since we‘ve been a company and we had 4 skills on 3 stars we ended up having to pay the same amount of rent tax as income scaling too so that makes it ~10 days. Additionally that income scaling affected all other sales as well and we paid a total of 60k income scaling over the duration of that +1 star period so we basically never made a profit. Not even counting in the times when the hotel wasn‘t filled up or people left because they essentially didn‘t need it anymore or went to a better one. You see that issue on T1, T2 as well. They become useless when something better or cheaper becomes available.
I fully agree that hotel housing xp vs. solo housing is a bit too strong as even if I double my rooms to get +50% I wouldn‘t be able to compete with a 10+ hotel. Maybe the curve just needs to be flattened a bit for big hotels.

digital pollen
digital pollen
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Hence I don't dig the argument too much

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Now LForward basically said they made zero profit, but due to being a company

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So yeh, I have no idea what to do, as people tell me different things and everyone has different intentions and reasoning behind their argumentation.

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I feel there is super little consensus on either situation, solution or what should happen. Social Housing seemed to be at least interesting, but Daniel doesn't like it and now Elmeye neither 😄

nimble pivot
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Curve for big hotels just needs to be flattened a bit to make solos have the option to compete to a certain degree.

digital pollen
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But it wasn't about if solos can compete

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It was about you making insane profit that the government wants to have

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(Or wants to prevent)

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You state that wasn't the case.

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Solos competing to hotels was not a topic at all here until now

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lol

nimble pivot
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If the gov doesn't want hotels to be profitable they can just put high rent tax and suddenly everyone will hate the gov and not build hotels anymore.

digital pollen
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That would be the same result as Social Housing as said by Daniel "Hate"

nimble pivot
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And then we'll get a new gov probably 😄

digital pollen
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And no they cannot put absurd high rent tax as I consider that unconstitutional, see pinned post.

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We were hence trying to find other solutions

digital pollen
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And we have the same situation again

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Meh.

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Plus high rent tax still has the issue that it's actually paid by the rentee

boreal barn
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?

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you mean because the rent increases?

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same argument as any tax is paid by the weaker guy

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🤷

digital pollen
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I mean because just using absurd high rent tax to siphon off the money is actually abusing the misery of the people paying the rents that were publicly stated to be considered way too high for profits

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While the government COULD do something for the misery

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Instead it decides to use it for own funding

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I just find that personally despicable

boreal barn
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if the evil government wouldn't tax us poor corpos we wouldn't have to stick it to the little guy kek

digital pollen
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Well they refused to raise the rents.

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So that didn't actually happen

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But still, the government just decided to siphon off the money of the people they themselves tought were getting "frauded" because the landlords don't need that big rents to pay for their expenses and normal profit.

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So they implicitly said that the rentees are taken advantage of

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But didnt do anything

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At the same time the landlords seem to say they don't have the profits alleged

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So yeh, big oooof

nimble pivot
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Rent limits as in max X€ per tier per hour? That would just add another rule on top or it might as well be a gov law but that would solve the problem some people seem to have.
Although I gotta say I didn't see anyone who actively played or even attempted to build a hotel recently argue against it in this thread. It's just another way of earning money. I did a giant T1 hotel in WT31 and made a lot of money that's true but the resources and money I put into the hotel (which everyone loved btw since it was available super early on) I might've just put into research papers or normal sales. It's just a creative way that's intended by the game to use your resources and money.

digital pollen
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Yeh, there is option 2 in my pinned post

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But there is debate on if creativity should be calculated in or if shadow is out of luck

digital pollen
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Of course they are heavily invited to chime in.

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But concluding them not being here means they don't care doesnt seem like a correct conclusion

nimble pivot
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How do you calculate creativity?
There are a lot of interesting options for adjusting your rooms now with the different categories that I liked where there was just a lot more variety in furniture.
Another point is that some players are probably happy to pay a bit extra and support the builders if they know that the hotel they get into is nice-looking.

digital pollen
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Effort could be calculated in time

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But yes, you can not objectively determine beauty.

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Doesn't mean that people are willing to pay more for what is luxury or architecturally crazy irl

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And costing more respectively

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And that we have such focus in Eco for beauty builds

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One of the potential culture concepts in the future is actually voting on deed beauty.

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Like the reputation system

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Nontheless, in most cases people on WT were with one vote distinguishing between a shadow building and a big ugly tower uniformly in regards to beauty

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So it seems to me most people do have some similar sense in beauty / effort / impressiveness.

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Time for a Ministry of Culture kek

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I don't even know what I myself apply to determine what looks good. I do know I like symmetry, but other than that I feel it's more about impressiveness for me

digital pollen
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Also it's interior and exterior design. I remember some chonky unica hotel which was big and cool, but i didnt really consider beautiful

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Given the fact we have jobs for both interior and exterior design irl that offer master studies, there needs to be some grabbable science behind it

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All of these i consider beautiful

36E639DE1C1BE49A320E253145F653667EAB77EE.png FBABD0182F084552FEED916C0E12FAABA32FC85C.png 09C0A1FE59771127ADAB7A80F9EFB905BFDEF2C5.png
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This one is big, but I do not:

D123D2532A7DB50E2BD6B3F767F12F8F49217490.png
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🤷‍♂️

boreal barn
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Of course a building shall only be worth renting out if Dennis considers it pretty 🙃

digital pollen
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Never said that

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But I know from project planning with Kaapo that buildings like three can take especially a lot of time you cannot get any other income, despite them not having too much of interior. Placement of trees, symmetry and planning before is not just done randomly.

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I mean renting doesn't need to be limited to hotels either

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One could rent a single person villa out as well

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Luckily, that seemingly was never the case

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But still it would be possible.

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I'm sure Elmeye also needs a bit of thought going into each unica layout and doesn't just do it randomly. (Please don't disappoint me now, kek)

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But time spent building and time spent planning is not available for other income

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Even more so if you have to do with a person that doesn't do a full-scale sales operation, like Kaapo never did

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I do not know how Shadow operates, though. Sounded like he had sales going on as well

olive mural
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Each unica layout is thought out to the point where I question if it will fit a moat

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I normally redraw the layout a few times each cycle before I’m happy with it.

digital pollen
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And Kaapo actually did minimal planning already, being a man of the flow

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We even have a minimum wage for contracts based on time, i think its 100 bucks per hour.

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Maybe we could use that somehow

olive mural
digital pollen
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One thing that would interest me is how rich normal people are in assets.

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Cause it seems the time factor is rejected due to the people being rich in the end by money.

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But I think people doing sales will quickly use their money to get new machines and stuff to go to the next effort to create and produce and continue so on, amassing assets in the meanwhile.

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That a builder does not do.

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Instead he should be given the option to use the money to the same degree for another thing that interests him - the next building.

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Instead of the next production chain.

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With the unfortunate thing that the next building takes more time than the next production chain and buying of materials is different pacing.

olive mural
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I was pushing most of my income back into the economy to build the next floor to rent out.

digital pollen
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But didn't people say people were rich by money?

olive mural
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As the solo I wasn’t

digital pollen
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Also Shadow specifically criticized that in his 'strike' post - the fact he wanted to use the money for the next project.

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Which potentially wasn't another floor then

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Would be interesting to see what the wealth in assets for a builder compared to a seller might be

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We should just distribute money by need determined by government and have all wares go to the government, that's safest

junior torrent
nimble pivot
junior torrent
nimble pivot
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I'm not sure if I came to that conclusion.

olive mural
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I’m not sure it’s the best cycle to get the best figures from to be fare, after framed glass there were only 2 or 3 successful landlords left in the market. And when I was able to make a T4 room available there was no demand.

junior torrent
nimble pivot
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I think if anything then early hotels are the bigger issue -> Lower cost + Stay longer

junior torrent
olive mural
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My T1 was full all cycle

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And while I did have tenants go abandoned the spots were taken again

junior torrent
olive mural
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Lowered

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5€ per hour

junior torrent
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That makes alot of sense though. It's a fair price

olive mural
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The building was paid for at that point

digital pollen
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I still don't get why we didn't have Furniture M3, cause that still worked lol

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In exchange for that you're getting the Dr. Evil version next cycle

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Balance in universe or something

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we also didnt have object weights

olive mural
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haha, about time we tried that one 😄

digital pollen
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as if ice just ... forget their existance

warm timber
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Let’s just make unica one large supermall with hotels attached to it. Easy.

digital pollen
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FIXED!!!!!!

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Was there anything else missing that noone noticed?

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Cause the furniture and objects wasnt even mentioned in wt internal chat

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In opposite to the other two

nimble pivot
digital pollen
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I only know of the finite oil mod, which was active.

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@unique arrow Is that part of your mod?

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The speed depends on how much oil there is, I don't know if we made changes to that, mh

unique arrow
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Afaik daniel made some other changes to oil ontop of my mod, including petroleum crafting speed

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I guess those changes didn't make it in to this cycle

boreal barn
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yep

digital pollen
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yeh, cant fix that dont know where that is

boreal barn
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there ya go

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