#smokes should really be about 20 seconds long

98 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

outer idol
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As it currently stands the smokes last way too long and often end up being more of a detriment in most situations than an advantage. They do see some effective use as it currently stands, but their best use cases in current gameplay feel very unsatisfying. the smokes of old only lasted about 12 seconds, but had a lot more variety of options and ways to impact rounds.

fleet glacier
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the smoke change is great for bad players because they would fail to take advantage of the window that 18 entire seconds gave them, but these same players throw bad smokes that are then permanent and this change instead ruins rounds for them

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1 big smoke and 3 little smokes

outer idol
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the number of smokes is fine and making a different set of smokes with different properties is probably not a good solution

sonic shell
static pawn
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Unrealistic. Smoke grenades keep producing smoke for about 80 seconds on average

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Duration should be extended instead

outer idol
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let's increase the spread of molotovs so that killhouse is the hellhole it should become

static pawn
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correct

undone acorn
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Idk, i guess to me it feels like stuff like smokes are specifically made to change the flow of a map for that round, a lot of attacker util feels that way, if you know a smoke is coming or a wall charge they sort of give the same danger but in the opposite way, im down to try the change i just currently feel no issue with current smokes

outer idol
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smokes are worse for attack now than they used to be when they are supposed to be stronger

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the length is a detriment as it currently stands

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there is less creativity due to the massive detriments that come with a full minute of smoke and less use cases where they are even considered decent. old smokes were a little on the weaker side due to not quite lasting long enough(though with a good team 12 seconds was plenty), but I would way prefer them over these current ones where you just pick an angle you are never going to approach and smoke it off early round and that is the ONLY optimal use case.

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changing it to a more reasonable 15-20 seconds is like gaining 2 actually consistently usable/useful resources for attack.

undone acorn
# outer idol the length is a detriment as it currently stands

i feel like this is only true because people throw a lot of bad smokes (myself included i dont touch them cause i need to learn more), and it feels way more brutal to throw a bad smoke that makes your round unplayable, but a really good smoke lasting a long time seems like a great reward for attackers, ive seen a lot of the better players utilize them in a way that i think they find adequate, getting rid of long range sightlines for an extended period of time is nice IMO, like on factory throwing a good smoke early and still being able to play with the stack because you dont have to leave 1 player behind preparing a god smoke to push a difficult angle against a mawp or ingmar

undone acorn
outer idol
# undone acorn i feel like this is only true because people throw a lot of bad smokes (myself i...

across 10 mans, ranked, scrims, and casuals my sentiment remains the same. the timer on the smoke turns what would be a good smoke into a bad smoke 90% of the time. I feel like lacking or luno can explain what I really mean in depth about optimal smokes as they currently stand a bit better than I can as my brain is fried rn and I'm about to go to sleep. With shorter smokes you are able to get more aggressive around them and cut off angles that you know you will be able to get back for example. while you can also accomplish the same smokes that get pulled off nowadays just by being prepared with the push and working together (if the player isn't doing that they wouldn't have thrown a good smoke anyway so that point becomes a bit of a wash in both regards). 15-20 seconds is plenty of time to cut off an angle and get you into the positions you need on big maps and small maps alike. my apologies if I come across hostile in any way here btw, I'm tired and just forgot to drink water for like the last hour ;-;

undone acorn
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also i dont think you are being hostile nor would i really care if you were lol its just a DP discussion

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real solution is 1 giga smoke that just fills the entire interior with smoke via tanks outfitted with arms that deliver the smoke through the wall, then the attackers set themselves on fire on purpose and all die trying to escape

outer idol
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holy based

undone acorn
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it could be the case also that i just have a tendency on attack to prefer longer time required plays, because i dont really get concerned much when the timer gets low

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all in all i understand the concerns, this issue seems like one that honestly requires more people to test which is difficult currently, but im still down to try the change, if you think it makes attacking easier or more skillful somehow im all for it cause i have more fun on attack

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im actually curious if @marsh umbra agrees with your suggestion (guessing he does) because hes the only other player ive encountered who has nerves of steel with in game timer and basically just does what i wanna do but better a lot of the time

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(about my bias towards playing to the last seconds of the round)

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actually looks like he already liked the post so guess he agrees, still curious about his input tho

static pawn
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Long duration smokes on attackers make perfect sense as much as short duration foam on defenders

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Done

crude condor
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30 seconds pls

ripe falcon
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I disagree with this sachi

marsh umbra
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60s long smokes are so lame

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It removes the dynamic aspect of the smokes in that you throw it and it's now essentially a permanent blocker

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It just slows the game down more which is booooring

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20 seconds is fine

wraith birch
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smokes are good as they are, im sure shorter smokes would also be good tho, matter of opinion

marsh umbra
wraith birch
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erm, there are benefits for longer smokes and negatives, either way the current ones and 20 seconds ones would be fine

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im indifferent

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the smokes work

marsh umbra
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Name six benefits and five negatives

grand horizon
ripe falcon
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luno deserved better

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so did photon

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@marsh umbra congrats on being beneficial

static pawn
marsh umbra
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Stay mad matrixcel

undone acorn
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@wraith birch Looks like you got on the wierd russians shitlist man unlucky

wary olive
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i agree with pretty much everything luno said in this thread and just wanted to add that i feel like there are like 2 good kinds of smokes when its 60s which are 1: exterior smokes to fully cover a room or hall angle on cstore or killhouse and 2: Some super long angle that isnt going to have to be pushed until at least a minute into the round (which is not common at all). If smokes were shorter and more plentiful there would be way more opportunities for a quick smoke wall rush to take ground and have faster paced rounds in general.

undone acorn
wary olive
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me fr

undone acorn
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🤙

static pawn
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So uhhhh, just fix smoke collision so it doesn't magically percolate through solid walls???

static pawn
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🙂

outer idol
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Eat sandwich

storm halo
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if we get shorter duration smokes how do we feel about them extinguishing fire? Similar to CSGO

outer idol
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Them being shorter duration is a buff.

static pawn
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It's a sidegrade

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At best, I mean

fleet glacier
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18 seconds means i have plenty of time to get what i want out of the smoke while i don't have to wait on it to clear if i need to block somewhere i also want to walk through later

earnest mountain
# static pawn It's a sidegrade

at worst its a side grade, shorting time of smokes is a huge buff as you can smoke off an area you need to push later on, eg teller, without stoping that push for a full 60 sec

static pawn
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Or you can block the sightline for the defenders completely off for most of the round and get on with your business elsewhere

fleet glacier
wraith birch
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its just different, it isnt better or worse

static pawn
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I can't believe photon can be correct, if rarely

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this is one of those times

stuck jay
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what do you mean photon is always right

static pawn
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I didn't say that photon is always right

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I said that he's rarely right

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proof-read bozo

undone acorn
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Surely guardian isnt struggling to read tone here

earnest mountain
wraith birch
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ur bad

stuck jay
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I meant "what do you mean? Photon is always right."

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grammer is important

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😘

static pawn
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Ah.

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Just another L take then, back to your seat

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😮‍💨

static pawn
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In a nutshell: get good with planning

fleet glacier
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ah yes block sightlines with flashbangs that don't pop flash anymore

undone acorn
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Jimmy that was a world record bad faith interpretation of what he said lmao

wraith birch
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or just peek the cunt, works sometimes

fleet glacier
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that's the whole point of being a cop

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just don't get tubbed

undone acorn
fleet glacier
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wtfuck ru of are an be illiteracy?

undone acorn
wraith birch
static pawn
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flashbang peek

undone acorn
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when me and guardian and photon agree on something its gotta be some type of biblical event

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that shit is unheard of

woven glacier