#What's the point of Crouch Cancelling!?!

100 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

hollow fjord
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Are you talking about cc or floorhugging

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Anyway, cc is made in order to allow certain moves to have strong frame data while also being safe on shield

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So for example, zettershine

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safe on shield, confirms into tons of combo strings

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frame startup of 2

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frame traps into and out of other aerials

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can be delayed to beat parry

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cc beats it

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if cc didnt exist, shine would have to be nerfed in tons of aspects

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same thing with forsburn cape

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forsburn cape is frame 14

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massive move

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confirms into all his tilts

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and into fsmash2

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and is a true 50/50 DI mix

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while also frame trapping on shield

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and is safe if completely spaced

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on whiff

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how do you beat it?

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cc

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Lox ftilt? cc

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And parry is worse in this game at frame 6

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and you should not be relying on parry

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parry will lose you games if youre using it like a defensive option

steep marsh
hollow fjord
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thing

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Its not really unintuitive

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you can learn it and get better or dont. Its here to stay and is a staple of combo routing and defense

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and the devs are very adamant on keeping it that way

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you crouch, you lower your knockback

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you asdi into the floor, you can force a tech

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because youre in tumble and touching the floor

steep marsh
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but, they're different enough to be pointed out

pearl epoch
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As a new player I've felt the same way about it and the answer that always gets shouted at me is "its here to stay deal with it". Could they re-balance moves and remove it? Yes. Will they? Seems like no. I personally think it would just be more fun to remove it and balance moves as needed but oh well đŸ€·â€â™‚ïž

steep marsh
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in terms of actually playing the game, there really ain't much more you can do than dealing with it :/

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but

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i read through a few of the negative reviews a few days ago, only read reviewers who put at least 10 hours into the game and

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a common complaint was floorhugging

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you won't hear their voices now bc they've prolly dipped

royal rune
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i had similar opinions with some of the beta builds

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but then i played more and actually its great

steep marsh
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got a clip and killed somebody after floorhugging a ranno weak bair while i was in lag for whiffing a nair

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the fake part is the fair > fair

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*and i was at a decently high percent

royal rune
steep marsh
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i can't tell if you're joking or not 😅

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srsly, i guess he could have delayed his bair a bit longer

hollow fjord
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If you complain about floorhugging

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game not for you

steep marsh
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i can complain while still putting up with it

hollow fjord
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and he didnt respect that

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so he got hit for it

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If he mixes up his timing, does a move that punishes you for trying to press down, etc

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you would die faster than if he had just connected the bair

steep marsh
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i just don't think that "will i be punished for landing this?" should be a part of the thought process when thinking about whiff punishing

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only thing you should be thinking about is "will this move come out before they can act/are out of endlag, and if this move won't come out, does my option beat their option"

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it's cool to think otherwise, there are some far more important people (in relation to the game) who probably think otherwise

hollow fjord
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But it was weaker bc we had the most broke DI in the market

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Now we don’t, and shield won’t make up for the options characters have

steep marsh
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feel like a reason drift di was axed was bc ppl didn't understand it, which was something i didn't understand

hollow fjord
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Drift DI was added in rivals 1 because we lacked defensive options in neutral. Parry was frame 3 but you couldn’t really use that defensively except for select moves like Kragg down B, bubbles etc.

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So in order to make up for any hit leading to potentially TOD from any character without defensive options to compensate in neutral, they had to make DI stronger to compensate

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So disadvantage was super strong in r1 if you really think about what rivals 1 characters could do otherwise

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Now we have cc, shield, floorhug

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So now getting clean hits matter, but as the defending player you can reduce how often you get clean hit without having to outright avoid the attack

hollow fjord
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In ways you couldn’t in rivals 1

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And in return, if you actually manage to get hit by a clean hit, your disadvantage is worse to compensate

warped nova
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I think it helps make the low percent game feel more distinct from mid/high percents which helps with the pacing of the game. makes it's so it's less about always spamming low commitment moves and you have a reason to use higher commitment moves that beat CC or space your safer moves just right to get advantage and play a bit of a scrap instead of just go into your bnb combo in the first second of the stock

somber jackal
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If you don't like cc, then this game is not for you.

warped nova
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i think it's fair to have gripes with it. for example it makes it so that it's optimal to dashdance around with your cstick glued down which is a pretty nonsense desgin

somber jackal
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Isn't that ASDI down?

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Sorry if I came off as dismissive, I just think cc is an important part of the RPS meta game

warped nova
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yeah but it's the same principle you are disadvantged on hit

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because the other dude held down

somber jackal
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought ASDI down does not provide crouch armor while you're actionable and it also can't be buffered before a hit. So wouldn't taping down c stick not work quite like that?

warped nova
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it doesn't give you crouch armor so it doesn't work to as high percetns as CC will

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you can hold it while you are in grounded lag though for example doing a smash attack or landing lag from an aerial

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or you can just hold it the whole time if you hide the input behind a wavedash for instance

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but even after it stops fully negating the attack it helps by putting you into mistech, principle off which you get asdi down tech and amsah tech

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actually looks like you can't hold it during a smash attack

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but it works while dash dancing

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nvm you can

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you can't hold it while charging the smash attack but you can hold it in the recovery frames

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if i recall you take extra knockback when hit while mid charging a smash attack so maybe it's cause of that

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JK YOU ACTUALLY can hold it charging a smash attack im just stupid and was holding up cstick which overrode my grey stick input

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you can start charging an usmash with cstick and then move it to down without releasing the smash attack lmao

steep marsh
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being able to do something during literally anything (except crouching) vs being able to do something under a somewhat niche condition is a huge difference

warped nova
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alright well i don't see anyone saying if you don't like asdi down the game isn't for you

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and a lot of the time people aren't doing true CC it's hard to have the time to go into full crouch

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they end up calling an ASDI down a floorhug