Factorio

[rigid bramble]

Some things I don't know about, or have forgotten

I have played a lot of games since I last touched Space Age xD

[rigid bramble]

Oh no, I've created a disco
Put my steam power on a switch for when the accumulators empty
However it then charges the accumulators turning them off again

[dapper monolith]

I'm all out of spoons 😂

[umbral meteor]

i'm aaal out of spoons, their all in the washer

[rigid bramble]

They called me a madman, but I was the only one with the vision to see it through. Behold... the double roundabout

[hearty meteor]

Criminal insanity

[proven sand]

Won't this allow trains to swap direction? (leave the double roundabout on the same rail they came in on)

[reef trench]

I should post some of the horrors in the mp server I'm in 😆

people always start with great ideas of "this time we'll do it right" 🤣

[hearty meteor]

Trains cannot pass a signal on "the wrong side" for them unless it's paired with a signal on their "correct side". So in the middle of the 8 only the bottom right roundabout will let trains pass, a train in the upper left can't pass that signal.

Everyone should just go for the R-twister from https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=46855 ;P
It works well as a pure T-junction too, and if you've done it right you really only need the T-junction since you can rotate it twice and overlay it again to get the 4-way

[rigid bramble]

Yeah its been signalled to only allow clockwise travel
really the middle doesn't need to be there, but should allow a shortcut for trains going south to east, or north to west

[dapper monolith]

.... leave my belt weaves out of this!

[umbral meteor]

Beltnado?

😁

[dapper monolith]

no the belts are fine just don't look to closely at them....

[rigid bramble]

You know in SA, I do kinda think that Purple and Yellow science should have been locked behind more planetary stuff
either from a planet, or just from X number of planetary science researched - say 1 planet science for Purple, and 2 for Yellow (and three planets done gives you access to Dark Blue science, and four for Promethium)

[rigid bramble]

Now my question is, which planet do I want to visit first

[dapper monolith]

I would not recommend gleb as your first

[rigid bramble]

why, it unlocks so much useful stuff

in fact I never did nuclear power in my previous run beacuse the heating tower burning solid fuel is just so good

[dapper monolith]

I find the other two better options for a lot of stuff. while gleb gets quite complex much faster due to spoilage.

[rigid bramble]

yes well, then you just have a line for spoilage and a line for nutrients

and you do have to do all three planets anyway xD

[indigo gust]

just got to keep things moving all time, no backing up

[dapper monolith]

its a balancing input and output as much as you can kinda fight, makes some parts of scaling tricky 🙂

[indigo gust]

the two others first is good if your intention is to establish high production on gleba

[rigid bramble]

but all you need to make on Gleba is that one fruit

sure stack inserters and rocket turrets would also be nice

[indigo gust]

but you have infinite resources to make almost everything there as far as I recall

[rigid bramble]

infinite copper iron and plastic, yes

[indigo gust]

infinite as in not having to explore the infinite map for more ore patches

[dapper monolith]

i like vulcanus for mass production since you can get sill iron and copper thoughput

[rigid bramble]

its not like you really need copper and iron on Gleba though

[reef trench]

why not

[rigid bramble]

imo vulcanus is more of the same, but with little to no threat

[rigid bramble]

cus anything you make on there just needs bioflux

[indigo gust]

oh, yeah, I built a huge perimeter to keep spores from reaching the penta nests

[rigid bramble]

Vulcanus has no threat if you've done yellow science

[atomic aurora]

why is no one talking about the utility of doing fulgora first? mech suit is so useful for both vulcanus and gleba

[rigid bramble]

cus the mech suit isn't a tank xD

or a spidertron

[dapper monolith]

yes but its the most UPS efficient planet for very high output builds 🙂

[rigid bramble]

I can't say UPS has ever been a factor to me

[dapper monolith]

just build big enough and it will be 🙂

or use a super slow CPU

[rigid bramble]

big enough is a thousand hours in pys

all I want to do is reach the shattered planet, and I'm only going to research one whole thing with the science pack

do all the research to learn how to research quicker

for all it takes to get to promethium science, and then to make it, the reward is very lacking (imo ofc)

[dapper monolith]

I don't see that as my goal when i play factorio, my goal and what i take joy in is mega bases 😄 and doing overly large and complex systems.

also the servers pys base has been going close to 700 hours now

[winter yacht]

and getting more and more complex

[rigid bramble]

its not getting me any closer to what planet to pick xD
soon to have yellow science, and my first ship is stocked and ready to go

imo a big thing going for Gleba is unlocking space copper and calcite and plastics

[dapper monolith]

but all i want is a slice of py, not to help ypu with you lack of direction 🙂

[umbral meteor]

sends ALL the trains

[rigid bramble]

you can py if you want, you can leave you friends behind, because if they're not efficient, and if they're not efficient, they ain't no friends of yours

[indigo gust]

Never been a concern to me either really - I remember I did some experiments during the first clusterio event, concluding that train->assembler->train was by far the optimum solution in vanilla at the time - thinking of attempting that for Ultracube Age of Cube now, but more due to belt limits for extremely high troughtput machines

[rigid bramble]

There are shenanigans to have with rail carriages iirc

[dapper monolith]

the ups savings rabbit hole is a deep well you wont get out of.

https://www.youtube.com/@abucnasty
i present to you some stuck in that well

i think they are closing in on the Balrog at this point.

[indigo gust]

I think the only time Iv'e experienced UPS drops was on a multiplayer death world server (Crash site scenario) where one player started a massive forest fire at their base

[rigid bramble]

I just know the person I watched do pys was struggling with memory at like the 800hr mark

And then trying to save Bentham in the colab xD

[dapper monolith]

the server i have has 22gb or ram dedacated to the vm that should be fine for a good bit 🙂

[rigid bramble]

"Dear future self, please set up your bus properly the first time"

[umbral meteor]

ALL the spaghet!

[atomic aurora]

I'm so bad about setting up my bus well the first time, even after 800 hours of play time

[rigid bramble]

No Zangiry, you can only fit so much down a narrow aperture ||Thats what she said||

it was fine until I realised I could not get any more iron plates on a belt

[atomic aurora]

almost always, I don't leave enough space around the bus to expand it reasonably well later down the line

[umbral meteor]

Duff, this is why we have belt stacking 😄

[rigid bramble]

You want me to go to Gleba?

[umbral meteor]

yes?

[rigid bramble]

Gleba first it is then
I have my compelling argument xD

anyway, I've already started shuffling my base sideways

also also, we kinda need that belt stacker from DSP

ughhh, I cut a wire and now I have 50 million yellow science packs

Just casually research Atomic Bomb whilst The Killers are singing 'Miss Atomic Bomb'

[umbral meteor]

Gleba is not Hack the planet, but Nuke the planet xD

[rigid bramble]

I think I finished doing the bootstrap base shuffle

now to see what I broke

[rigid bramble]

Oops

[rigid bramble]

Say, is there an easier or smaller way to set filters on an inserter than having a decider combinator for every item?
like I want to load a train with specific items (as in a stack of each) but I don't want it to try and put more than a whole stack in

I want to avoid this kinda situation

[umbral meteor]

Yes, Constant Combinator can be used in combination with one arithmetic for filters.

also set the stack size of each inserter in such a way that it won't have leftovers when a stack/half a stack is put in

like having them at 10 instead of 14 for example

[rigid bramble]

they are set to a stack size of 1

or hand size, whatever

[umbral meteor]

then it should be fine.
Constant set to values you want, arith set to times -1,
read train contents sent to same network, inserters ofc set to "set filters"
that way the moment the train content reaches desired amount, the filter for said item turns off

[rigid bramble]

it'll keep trying to fill a box until its full iirc

[umbral meteor]

the way i said now is for filling train,
the other way is instead of reading train contents, you read either the local offloading chests,
OR logistics network, depending on use case.

oh, and remember to set "read hand contents"

that way the moment hand picks up last item, filter for said item turns off

i've been doing this for my supply trains since before 1.0

now i assume you could do all this with one advanced combinator thing

[rigid bramble]

I assume so too, but I wouldn't know

[umbral meteor]

but the one constant and one arith is the old vanilla way xD

[rigid bramble]

my offload station looks like this

and I could see it working for on-load too, just I need to set it to like half a full stack size so it can't overload it

[umbral meteor]

Constant sets value for load/unload, you just change between reading chests to reading train contents

(or instead of chests you read local logistics network)

[rigid bramble]

but do I need one pair for every item I want to load?

[umbral meteor]

one constant

set values in it, 20 items, set them all in that constant, with value wanted for each as a positive number

[rigid bramble]

I can't get it to dynamically set constants I take it

[umbral meteor]

then direct from constant to arith, and only from the constant.
arith set to each and multiplied with -1, output from it is sent to same wire as chests/inserters/station.

inserters set to set filters and read hand contents

and as said, depending on if it is load or unload, you either connect chests or station.
chests/logistics for unload, and station for load (with read train contents)

and no, for a dynamic setup you would have to essentially make a computer xD

[rigid bramble]

like send the contents to the constant combinator

though just to clarify, would I need an arithmetic combinator for each item?

[umbral meteor]

only one

Constant -> Arith -> Chests/inserters/Station

Constant sets items and values, arith is just there for the negative, as in "each * -1"

[rigid bramble]

I'm not sure what I've done

it does a thing

now to tell the train when it can leave

[umbral meteor]

5 sec of inactivity?

[rigid bramble]

ah but what if its not full, or has any cargo

[umbral meteor]

add an and?

but usually i have full or inactive for 30 sec

[rigid bramble]

I've set it so its not going to be full per se

[atomic aurora]

maybe a compare decider that outputs a specific signal if all values are less than or equal to zero, and the train starts moving if that signal is set? this decider would get the same wires as the inserters

[rigid bramble]

I need to remember to set limits on my chests...

[atomic aurora]

there's worse things to over-produce, honestly, especially on vulcanus

[rigid bramble]

Its not like I'm going to run out of iron or copper, but still xD

and yeah I guess you can actually use that many on Vulcanus

[atomic aurora]

and if all else fails, use them on space platforms for nuclear until you get to fusion energy

[rigid bramble]

Aquillio is a bit far away for me right now, and I don't think I'm going to need that much anyway

[rigid bramble]

So I got bored on Vulcanus and decided to try and artillery a medium worm...
the funny thing is how it very neatly avoids possibly the most expensive building

[reef trench]

could be worse

[rigid bramble]

It's the idea that the rocket silo is the most expensive building

[atomic aurora]

After a 20 hour slog (that's actually pretty fast for me) I've also now reached the point where I need to decide what planet to go for first. Last time I did them in the order Vulcanus, Fulgora, Gleba. I'm thinking this time I might go the opposite way, like aavak did in his streamed run. So, wish me luck

[rigid bramble]

I do think Gleba does give you the most useful things

[atomic aurora]

The downside being that Gleba is also a slog at the start, and Im Limited to red belts because I'm also doing the no purple and yellow science before planetary science achievement

[rigid bramble]

I still think thats the way it should be played - get purple and yellow as you progress through the planets

obviously Fulgora is a pita without elevated rails, but you can make a manual train with a remote controlled tank xD

[atomic aurora]

I'll be honest. Is didn't even use any trains on on Gleba on my first SA run

[rigid bramble]

I had a stone train, and a perimeter defence

[umbral meteor]

i did not even use trains on Fulgora at all xD

all of the bots, all the time

[rigid bramble]

you don't get the range between islands for the bots

[indigo gust]

No trains on gleba for me, but a segmented bot network to maintain the perimeter. Some logic to limit the amount of fruit on the plantation-to-factory -belts ensures they don't mass spoil while waiting to get onto the loops in the factory.

[atomic aurora]

someone who's better at writing train intrrupts than me tell me what I'm doing wrong. the conditions should be met, but the train isn't triggering it while at the depot. and when I manually trigger it, it doesn't replace the wildcards with the relevant item

[atomic aurora]

nvm, figured it out myself

[hearty meteor]

https://programmerhumor.io/programming-memes/nevermind-i-figured-it-out/ ;P

[atomic aurora]

now, should the solution to this have to involve putting a signal from a requesting train stop on a radar, and detracting that signal for each one of those stations that has a train going to or stopping at it? and then sending those signals to the depots to be passed to the trains in a staggered fashion to not send all trains stopped at the depot to fulfill the same request? I feel that's a bit too complicated, but it works, so w/e

stil, even though I have solved it for myself, I do still kinda want to hear how other people do this

[atomic aurora]

I will have you know, I was already in the process of writing my bare-bones explanation of how I did it when you sent that

[hearty meteor]

Yeah, but it was too funny not to share, right?

I wouldn't have even begun to figure out what you had to do to make it work.

So good job, IMO

The most advanced I tried to get with the new train things was automatically go to a refuelling station

[umbral meteor]

this used to be me xD

[atomic aurora]

deffo was me when space age was fresh off the press

I think I clocked something like 100 hours of playtime in the first 2 weeks of me playing that

[rigid bramble]

the magic of sending signals via sattelite

[hallow steppe]

You can cut out food time too, order delivery and eat at your desk.

[rigid bramble]

How many accumulators does it take to light a bulb on Fulgora?
Yes.

[rigid bramble]

I'm about to have a falling out with my space platforms 😮
They're just doing whither they will - One was full of copper, another is missing its front half, one wasn't even making ammo and then had somehow spilt cargo all over the platform

[umbral meteor]

what you get for letting them run wild xD

[rigid bramble]

I'm busy trying to figure out some advanced circuitry and they're off having fun

[rigid bramble]

Rate my base

[atomic aurora]

Can't really see the main base behind all that pollution, but why are there so few iron and copper patches hooked up?

[rigid bramble]

I have 19million iron, and 5million copper hooked up, and they're still going

my actual base without pollution

my SPM is only 75 atm

and thats limited by agri packs

[atomic aurora]

This time around on my run, I've decided not to ship agri packs to nauvis, and that's working pretty well for me. Or it will, once I can get rockets launching more efficiently on nauvis, and get the science packs that are easy to make on Gleba made on-site

[rigid bramble]

yeah but Biolabs though

[atomic aurora]

But I'm still working through Fulgora, and haven't started Vulcanus yet

[atomic aurora]

Eh, I can do without the hassle of setting that up

[rigid bramble]

I do note, with the wider footprint of the biolab its easier to get every single science hooked up

[atomic aurora]

Sure, but the resources for most of the basic science packs are literally infinite on Gleba, so I don't see much of a point in sending Gleba packs to nauvis

I'd sooner send all the other science I would make on Gleba off-world to keep production going than having tens of thousands of Gleba science packs spoil on nauvis and in space as I research things that don't use it

[rigid bramble]

my issue with Agri packs is I'm only making 1.2/s

[atomic aurora]

That's not even 2 bio chambers working at full capacity, wth

Or wait, does each make 0.75 or 0.25 per second? I think it was 0.75

[rigid bramble]

I'm using some prod modules

1.28/s technically

I could do more, but it works for now, and I don't want to upset the balance xD

[atomic aurora]

I tend to prioritize efficiency, especially on gleba

[rigid bramble]

I like making more with less

and for what, plastic and rocket fuel productivity research?

[atomic aurora]

And explosion and fire damage

And Asteroid processing productivity

[rigid bramble]

I find myself not really usuing fire damage

[atomic aurora]

Same, but it uses gleba science, anyway

[rigid bramble]

and I might do Agri science if the belt wasn't full of rot...

[atomic aurora]

Also, how funny is it that the bulk inserters are unlocked on the planet they are the least useful on?

I wish you could modify their behaviour in some way. Specify the stack height similar to how much they can grab, and whether they care about getting a full hand before starting to move or not

[rigid bramble]

Can't you override how much they grab?

iirc they have distinctly different behaviour to bulk inserters

if I remember on the one server we had for SA, someone broke an omnismelter or something by upgrading to stack inserters

the wiki says you can play around with filters to force it to drop what its holding

[atomic aurora]

Maybe, but that seems difficult to automate, and you'd need that for every inserter that has a chance of picking something up that will spill in its hand

[rigid bramble]

seems in the spirit of factorio - I don't need to wire up a circuit for X, but I can

[atomic aurora]

And yes, you can override how much they grab, but not the stack size they put into each entity on the belt

If they are limited to picking up less than 4 items, then you also limit the stack size on the belt, but then you massively hamper how fast they can put stuff on the belt

[rigid bramble]

would be nice if we had an easy way to stack belts, on the belts, like they have in DSP

[atomic aurora]

Yup, that would be sick

But giving us some options to change bulk inserter behaviour would be a good alternative

[rigid bramble]

two belts go in, one belt comes out
though if you have decent enough through put, you could do that with stack inserters

stack inserters arn't technically an upgrade on bulk inserters

[atomic aurora]

Huh, was about to say that I think you have bulk and stack inserters mixed up, but that would be me. I guess some pre-SA factorio knowledge in my brain is stubbornly refusing to get updated

Yes, I mean stack inserters lack the ability to have their behaviour modified

[rigid bramble]

I understood which one you meant
but then I didn't maintain that naming convention, oops

[atomic aurora]

I want to use stack inserters everywhere that needs more throughput without increasing the number or color of belts (still running red belts in most places), but needing to fill the inserter's hands each time makes it almost useless on gleba, where it could be the most useful with how complex the setups already are there

[rigid bramble]

well imo the stack inserter isn't a replacement for the bulk inserter

[slate dune]

I mean stack inserters are great for rot

[atomic aurora]

If all machines are working as intended, then most spoilage is filtered off the belts using splitters, so not really

At least in my gleba base

[rigid bramble]

but you can stack spoilage 😮

[slate dune]

Oh yeah a well designed base will not produce much spoilage, just enough to meet the sulfur demands. But every machine should have a way to extract spoilage from it and that inserter can 100% be a stack inserter

[atomic aurora]

Unless the design uses the same inserter to take out multiple things, not just spoilage, or it needs to be a long handed inserter

[slate dune]

I always designed my stuff to have a dedicated spoilage extractor. The rest can be taken out by other inserters.

[atomic aurora]

Could you please stop pinging me during an active conversation?

[slate dune]

Force of habit, my apologies.

[atomic aurora]

One thing I can say now that I've reached Vulcanus after doing gleba and Fulgora, is that Vulcanus really is supposed to be the first planet you go to after nauvis.

Gleba was an almost literal wall I worked on for like 30 hours to get through (though I should also not I was doing the achievement to not research prod and Hi-Tech science before researching a planetary science), then Fulgora was barely half that, and on Vulcanus it feels like the only holdup so far was making the foundries and big miners to start proper production.

[rigid bramble]

the planet you go to first is the one with the unlocks you want first, imo

having purple and yellow science really does make a difference I'll note

all Gleba does for me is pretty much just the science pack and bioflux

[atomic aurora]

Oh, for sure. Not having blue belts, being limited to slow bots with only one capacity upgrade, no steel productivity, it just makes progressing so much slower

[rigid bramble]

not even that, more the combat side of things
try taking down a demolisher without those upgrades xD

[atomic aurora]

Same way I took them down in my first run: thick wall of turrets. Without the additional damage and shooting speed upgrades, that wall just needs to be a bit thinker, no biggie

[rigid bramble]

or get yellow science and shoot it once with a DU tank shell

[atomic aurora]

I haven't tried that, but on paper, it doesn't seem like one would be enough to kill even a small demo

[rigid bramble]

if you get it straight down the line, meaning it hits every segment at once

[umbral meteor]

||which is why straight on Railgun does a LOT of damage to them, and depending on research can insta kill the big ones||

[atomic aurora]

But according to the wiki, a projectile only has a limited amount of HP the can pierce and has to kill in the first place to pierce

[rigid bramble]

though I think that does crazy damage anyway Zangiry

well, when Aavak gets round to editing more factorio you'll see how easily he took down his first demo

(also technically railgun is yellow science :p )

[umbral meteor]

also also, having legendary rail helps

😝

as i did have that when i took down Big and Mediums

[rigid bramble]

I've not even touched quality, as in not even researched it

you can deal with mediums fine with massed artillery

[slate dune]

Pretty sure we are caught up on factorio vods?

[rigid bramble]

I think its as far as a return to Nauvis after Fulgora

or it might be just as he was leaving Fulgora

[rigid bramble]

wait though, you can set the stack size on a stack inserter

I can set it to 4 and it'll fill with 4 and place 4

and because I was messing with the setting just

[atomic aurora]

yes, but then it will only ever hold that amount at once

I cannot tell it to hold its full 16 with max research, but dispense them in lots of 2 on the belt

[dapper monolith]

mean while in pys coke production is going again 😄

[rigid bramble]

just set the stack size to 2?
yes it'll only move 2 per swing, but thats probably quicker than waiting for 16

[dapper monolith]

What would be the benefit of only placing 2 at a time?

[rigid bramble]

maybe you only want to double the throughput

[dapper monolith]

I'm just trying to under stand what the benefit to doing that would be

[atomic aurora]

well, for now, it would have been to not increase the amnount of fruit on gleba belts more than absolutely required

but I dont think there should need to be a practical reason why it should be possible to set that

[rigid bramble]

needing that much fruit sounds like a nice way to invite a fiver finger death punch (that being pentapods)

though don't stack inserters move the same speed as a fast inserter?

but a fast inserter picks up 4, hmmm

[atomic aurora]

hence, why I don't want to set the stack size to 2, because then the added stack size deasn really matter anymore

[rigid bramble]

well uh, 2 stack inserters then, I mean you want to fill both sides of the belt right

[rigid bramble]

well, I think all I've got left to do on my run is build a vitory ship
planets and factories are done enough to make one I think

though I may want to float a space platform over Aquillo just to make blue circuits and LDS

[umbral meteor]

well then xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1fq9jxKZ68

Dosh at it again

[atomic aurora]

I've been thinking about a way to make Vulcanus a bit more difficult (which it might not actually need, but I kinda want this anyway) in that it would have been an interesting challenge if you had to cool some of your buildings down on Vulcanus, the way you need to heat them on aquilo. Not belts and pipes and inserters, but things like assemblers and chem plants and the like, just to give an introduction on the heat mechanics on aquilo. Any opinions on this idea? I wonder if there's a mod that does this already

[rigid bramble]

Depends what medium you would use to cool them

Though it might be more of an annoyance considering for the most part you would and need to use foundries on vulcanus
Unless the advanced machines (buildings from aquillo/fulgora) had their own cooling

[atomic aurora]

Honestly, I think foundries and cryo plant shouldnt need cooling or heating from outside to work, considering one would implicitly need its own heating elements, and the other cooling elements. Maybe they should need more power if used outside of the planet they came from, but needing to heat up the cryo plant on the cryo planet seems dumb

As for the medium to use for cooling, I don't see why it couldn't be heat pipes again, since their heat equalization isn't directional. Buildings output some heat into nearby heat pipes, and a heat exchanger uses it to turn water into steam. Maybe there could be a new building with two heat pipes connections that uses electricity to cool one side and heat up the other, so the "maximum operating temperature" can me significantly lower than the heat exchanger would deal with without needing to change any existing systems

[rigid bramble]

I mean, you kinda put lava in a foundry

[atomic aurora]

Or use it to literally melt ore

Hence why it should have its own heating

[rigid bramble]

its not you need to keep the cryoplant warm, its that you need to keep it not frozen

tbh I've never seen a reason to put a foundry on aquillo

[atomic aurora]

It's the principle

[rigid bramble]

does it even let you place them on Aquillo

[atomic aurora]

I don't see why it wouldn't, and I think if you could use them to make lithium plates, they'd have as good a reason as any to be there

[rigid bramble]

the point being, they might not let you due to the question of it needing a heat pipe

though ultimately, imo, it needs to be a distinctly different problem then you face on Aquillo
cooling to me should be taking the heat out of something, much like the fluoroketone loops

[atomic aurora]

which you do in the heat exchanger, essentially. it just goes from primarily being for power generation, to hea management

and the cooling tower (which may or may not be necessary for balancing so you don't have a virtually infinite energy source just from building stuff on vulcanus) concentrates the heat enough for the heat exchanger to do its thing

[rigid bramble]

still feels the exact same as what you do on Aquillo
besides you already have the crazy steam generation on Vulcanus

[umbral meteor]

👀

[hearty meteor]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Verbose-Engineering

[reef trench]

yes

[hearty meteor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW75ToNs64o

[rigid bramble]

Anyway, I need to go make a new mine on Vulcanus, apparently titanium can run out after all

[atomic aurora]

Titanium =|= Tungsten

And yes, had that happen myself recently

Had to kill my first medium demo to get to a territory with three patches of several million Tungsten each that I'd been eyeing for ages

And for those saying a single DU tank shell can kill a medium demo in one shot, just how high is your damage increase research?

[reef trench]

Well that would be nice
but how

[atomic aurora]

Just what I'm saying, it doesn't. At least not with my mere lvl 8 phys damage increase

Took me over 20 shells to kill it

[hearty meteor]

Did you shoot all through the segments from the tail end? That's what I've heard is the way

[atomic aurora]

I did not shoot it in the rear, no, but even that shouldn't work to the best of my knowledge

[hearty meteor]

But did you get it to go through all the segments possible, or from the side?

[atomic aurora]

I shot it right in the face, it did no more damage than I would have expected from the damage numbers

[hearty meteor]

It should do damage to each segment individually, from what I understand

[atomic aurora]

Like, according to the wiki, and I have no reason this is wrong, a shell doesn't penetrate unless it kills the first thing

[hearty meteor]

Uh, it doesn't?

Can you tell I haven't used them much? XD

[atomic aurora]

It does not. According to the wiki, penetrative power, which is 1000 for regular shells and 2200 for DU shells, lets the projectile penetrate that amount of health before stopping. The requirement for penetration, however, is killing the first target. Since the demos, and each of their segments according to the numbers in game, have well in excess of 10k HP, there should be no way to hit more than one

[hearty meteor]

That makes sense to me

I had someone claim that poison was great for taking out worms, but when I mathed it it didn't seem to make sense to me. I couldn't check if it worked that way in-game, though, since I won't have the expansion

[atomic aurora]

If someone can tell me with confidence that the individual segments all count as the same enemy, but take damage individually, I would call them confidently wrong unless I get video evidence

Yup, if you can throw hundreds of capsules on the floor before the effects vanish, you can, technically, take out the Regeneration... of a small demo. 2400 HP/s, I think, where the effect of the capsules does like 16 per second

[hearty meteor]

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-429

Likewise we need to clarify somewhere that segments take damage individually but all damage is transferred to the creature as a whole (which is really the head).

Which should be good enough source for you ;P

Yeah, poison does 8 damage twice per second, for 16/second. 320 over 20 seconds (which is how long they persist), and I don't remember how many you can throw per second, if it's more than 1

[atomic aurora]

You can throw 2 per second

But yeah, here, I guess the multiple segments would start to help in killing it

Though the body is also 50% resistant to poison, compared to the head's 10%

[hearty meteor]

So if you can throw 2 poison capsule per second you'll get to 640 damage per second per segment if you have them stacked to the max. That means for a demolisher with 2400 hp regen per second you'd need to get 3.75 segments in the cloud to just equal the regen.

Oh, yeah, more poison resistance also changes that

So 7.5 segments in the cloud, then

Doesn't seem like a good tactic to me

[atomic aurora]

That's for a small demo, while throwing capsules constantly, for which you need to be close. Do poison capsules aggro demos?

[hearty meteor]

Hmmm, I wouldn't know. I'd have assumed it does

I know they stated somewhere that lasers don't aggro them (because it doesn't damage them, IIRC)

[atomic aurora]

They are fully immune to lasers, so that makes sense, at least

[hearty meteor]

I saw someone put turrets down in a line just by the territory, wired them all up to a constant combinator, set them all to only fire if SIGNAL was given from the constant combinator. Then make sure the demolisher came by parallel to the turret line

So they could be sure that the turrets would all start firing at the same time when the demo was in range of all of them

[atomic aurora]

All that is to say, there is no "easy" way to kill them, just some starts that can help out. At least the DU shells do enough damage to whittle medium demos down relatively quickly, even without being an instant kill

Maybe I should try shooting an atom bomb at a large demo, just in case

[rigid bramble]

Tungstanium

Also I don't think I specified size of worm
Just that DU shells make short work of the required kill

[hearty meteor]

Set up a nuclear reactor (or 4)

[rigid bramble]

Plus I believe a demo has a shared health pool, so if you destroy a section you kill the worm

[rigid bramble]

question, why can't you do coal synthesis in a cryoplant, but you can carbonise coal instead

and you can't melt ice in a cryoplant either

[atomic aurora]

you're surprised that you cannot melt ice (heat up to non-cryogenic temperatures) in the building whose only stated job is to do things that require very cold temperatures?

no idea about coal synthesis, though

[rigid bramble]

I'm sure hot fluroketene is above 'non-cryogenic' temperatures

(Also it is a game)

[atomic aurora]

pretty sure that'd be a chemical reaction heating it up, not the plant making it and deciding "you know what? this stuff is too cold, I should heat it up before putting it out"

it may be a game, but immersion is at least somewhat important

you wouldn't expect the foundry to be able to turn water into ice, just because it can turn liquid metal into plates, right?

[rigid bramble]

its not a chemcial based machine, is it?

also not to mention the cryoplant uses water to make explosives, and petroleum gas to make plastic and suplur, and makes supluric acid too..

[atomic aurora]

I had resisted the urge to ask or look up how other people deal with aquilo ice for a while now, since I was still still having fun doing it my way, but seeing someone else go through it for the first time I have to wonder at my own intelligence. In my 60 ish hours between my two SA runs of working out exclusively aquilo setups, it had not occurred to me once that you could grind ice to nothing in recyclers... despite doing just that on Fulgora on both those runs

"my way" is essentially hoping that between cryo science and oil cracking, I was using enough ice to produce enough ammonia to keep everything else going

[dapper monolith]

one way i deal with it is using it on ships for fuel, helps a tad, early on.

[reef trench]

I got a few recyclers for the ice

Did take a while to realize that lol

[rigid bramble]

I had the curious issue of not enough ice

Especially since you can't ratio pure ice platform production

[rigid bramble]

Using ice for ship fuel?
Even though Aquillo orbit us chock full of ice aateroids?

[atomic aurora]

sure you can, if you make the exess ammonia into solid fuel and burn it off in heating towers

[dapper monolith]

yes its one way i could deal with some of the ice.

[rigid bramble]

Yes, ice platform is a run off from your fuel production
Burning resources to me doesn't count as 'ratio'd' xD

[reef trench]

you need to burn stuff anyway on aquilo

[rigid bramble]

you're better of setting up for rocket fuel, and any excess can go into ice platform - but it does mean if you're full on fuel it'll stop making ice platform

but whatever, I solved my ice shortage by storing some and requesting it where needed

[rigid bramble]

Giant Worm dead, thats another one off the list...

for the record it took 2 railgun shots at railgun damage 5

[atomic aurora]

been designing my victory ship these last few hours, and well, let's just say I had to get creative with the iron and copper smelting right next to the ice processing

[umbral meteor]

ahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWJy3sWGQMM

[rigid bramble]

I'm so close to the shattered planet, and yet so far... D:

[dapper monolith]

just add more power, it will get you even closer 😛

[umbral meteor]

installs Dyson Sphere on space platform/ship

[reef trench]

play factorio to pass the time

[dapper monolith]

make doom with combanators and lamps?

[reef trench]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAuP0gO5pc

[rigid bramble]

I ran the numbers, I need to make a craft to store 3000 space rocks

[dapper monolith]

legend says they are still working on version 3.

[reef trench]

I wonder if it's easier in space age 🤔

[dapper monolith]

You should call that your summer project 😛

[atomic aurora]

and what, pray tell, is the limiting factor? how close are you, anyway?

[rigid bramble]

I need to build the ship
but I'm thinking I may just throw in the towel

[atomic aurora]

oh, close in the figurative sense, far in the literal sense

I somehow expected you to mean you're already quite far into the travel, but didn't beef the ship up enough to make it the rest of the way

what's this about space rocks, then?

[rigid bramble]

you need to get the rocks to make the science

[atomic aurora]

3000 space rocks isn't that difficult to store

[rigid bramble]

I have seen the belt weaves people come up with

the issue is you can't just store them in storage unless you have like 30 of them

[atomic aurora]

yeah, belts are somehow way better for storing space rocks. a cool 6.4 times denser than a common quality storage unit

no idea why promethium rocks, at least couldn't just stack in storage

[rigid bramble]

maybe the idea was that you don't just fly up and down farming rocks constantly

[atomic aurora]

so, where'd the 3000 rocks number come from?

[rigid bramble]

thats enough for the 1200 science packs you need to do your first promethian science

[umbral meteor]

just get the belt stacker mod, and set max belt stack size to the same as hand size of the stack inserter xD

[atomic aurora]

actually, my math tells me it might be just enough for the first 4 levels of research productivity... I get your 3000 if I don't put any productivity into my figures, and use normal labs rather than biolabs

[rigid bramble]

I think my mistake wa forgetting the research can be done on Nauvis xD

[atomic aurora]

with just the biolab, and common quality prod 3 modules, it takes just shy of 600 promethium for the first level

[rigid bramble]

so that would be 1500 baseline
that being a lowball, cus working our 40% prod is maths xD

oh and for the record I still haven't researched quality modules

[atomic aurora]

if you use legendary prod 3 modules, which is a lot for relatively little gain in this case, you could make 3000 promethium rocks stretch to somewhere between level 6 and 7 of research prod. I'm not actually taking the effect of the research into its own cost calculation, but level 6 could be done with 2400 rocks

[rigid bramble]

I'm doing the one level for the achievement if I ever do xD

its always felt a bit lacklustre to me, the reward for doing all this just so you can do more science

[atomic aurora]

well, if you just set up a little research thing on nauvis and use normal prod module 3s, you can confidently shave that number of rocks you need down to 600

[rigid bramble]

I was going to say I'd still need a belt weave, then I realised I would never weave my belts, just have them in a snake and I'm not sure if thats any more space efficient

[atomic aurora]

only needs to be a snake ~100 belts long, so I don't see where the hangup is

[rigid bramble]

the efficiency I lack I guess xD

[atomic aurora]

could even use most of that space still, if you use the green underground belts

[rigid bramble]

oh yeah I did improve my SPM to something closer to 800, you'll be happy to know, maybe

but at the same time I'm running out of meaningful research

[atomic aurora]

neat

"running out of meaningful research" and yet hasn't unlocked quality modules

[rigid bramble]

that was a choice though

[hearty meteor]

Quality modules aren't meaningful, though ;P

[rigid bramble]

it was a headache I was going to tackle once I'd got to the shattered planet

and then maybe next time I'll use a mod to remove the RNG I'll go all in with quality

Yeah I was using this mod on my only gleba run
Removes the RNG by making recipes require substantially more ingredients
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/no-more-gambling

but the subsurface mod has broken somehow, so rip my saves

[smoky raven]

Sad to hear one of my favorite Factorio YouTubers has passed away suddenly. I really enjoyed her “Entry level to mega base” and long play videos many years ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/k2jlA0HilD

[pliant crystal]

What?! That is such sudden news D:

[winter yacht]

F

[dapper monolith]

Fuck that's proper shit news.

The factory will miss the chaos she built and I will miss the building of such lovely monstrositys.

[reef trench]

oh no

[umbral meteor]

[slate dune]

Holy fuck I did not expect that... I didn't know her that well. But damn...

[patent umbra]

:( She will be missed.

[patent umbra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tImNejO5g48

[proven sand]

Beat Factorio in under an hour with these 73,120 easy steps!

[umbral meteor]

Step 1: Praise the Omnissiah

xD

[patent umbra]

Step 0: pull up and avoid crashing on planet