The Calamities’ Hidden Origins, Demon King's Significance, The Sacred Seal & Secret Stones Analysis

[modern tree]

since that’s around the time we could also say “Hyrule Kingdom is founded”

[fallow moth]

The TotK Imprisoning War I assume ?

Ganondorf didn't become Dark Beast Ganon at that time either tho
He never did in either BotW, AoC or TotK

[modern tree]

Yes

Like I said, it comes down to explaining the existence of two Ganondorf’s.

I think we should definitely stop merging the distant past with the imprisoning war. That’s just really dumb.

[fallow moth]

Weren't you the one to do just that ? x)

[modern tree]

Hahha no, I’ve been arguing this since I posted this.

It’s getting frustrating the amount of times I’ve had to disprove it

[fallow moth]

Anyway, the Dark Beasts and Calamities come from the Rauru-sealed Ganondorf under the castle
What other Ganondorf could there be and why would he exist ?

And how could he exist given it seems there can only be one Gerudo-male at a time, given we're told there hasn't been one in a long time, probably because there still was one "alive", just sealed

[modern tree]

So, to explain “Dark Beast”
it’s explained as Ganon’s true form.
I believe that, while we know that only one gerudo male has existed at a time, and that was mostly because of the 100 year span of each male, by the time the next one was born, the previous one was most likely dead.
but there was never a law or a rule that determines that only one Geurdo male can be alive.
and Ganondorf from ToTk is only being kept alive (or restrained) from the seal underneath the castle.
I think, his hatred and power tried to reincarnate into the Calamity and took form into a Gerudo Male, that we see in OoT.
That Gerudo Male then transforms into Malice, and becomes Calamity Ganon, hatred and malice incarnate.

although, I should more correctly say that the castle in OoT is most certainly Rauru’s Castle, before the Castle was built overtop the sacred site.

[fallow moth]

lmao what

So you're saying OoT Dorf is actually a Blight

And the Rauru's Castle looks nothing like the OoT Castle

We also know what happens to OoT Dorf in every timeline, and he doesn't transform into Malice in any of them

And I agree, it was never specified that there can't be multiple Gerudo men alive at the same
But then how do you explain the lack of male birth in BotW and before ?

[modern tree]

I know it’s controversial to some people at the moment, but it was stated that after the king who became the calamity, there wasn’t records of another gerudo male being born.

It’s where it’s stated, in CaC.

also, I’m talking weird because I cracked my screen. It’s difficult to text right now.

[modern tree]

He’s a lot more then a phantom, he’s an individual I think, just his hatred reincarnated in a similar way Demise did in ToTk Ganondorf.

Yeah I’m gonna respond a lot better when I get this screen fixed.

[fallow moth]

Rough

[fallow moth]

Isn't it mentioned in BotW too ? 🤔

[fallow moth]

By who btw ?

[high sun]

The section I translated

[narrow cradle]

I have to admit, the revelation that the Ganondorf we are familiar with is just a glorified Phantom Ganon is kind of lame. Like yeah it succeeds in making the Tears Ganondorf seem more threatening, but at the cost of literally the entire rest of the series. Not a fan.

[fallow moth]

It's not a "revelation"

It's a theory

It's in no way official or even implied in the games

Trust me, if it was a glorified Phantom Ganon, he wouldn't die the same way he does in the games he appears in
He wouldn't need to be sealed either

[narrow cradle]

Fair enough

[unborn jackal]

Just sayin: the calamity needs to be sealed too, and the calamity is a glorified phantom ganon.

[fallow moth]

Looks more like it's nuked to me

Zelda in BotW seems to use the same power against the Calamity than the one against the Guardians in the battle of Fort Hateno
And they weren't sealed, the malice was destroyed

[unborn jackal]

You see: there was nothing to seal there. Apart from that: you really want to question a literal "sealing power"? 💀

[fallow moth]

And there was nothing to seal against Calamity either

Literally just hateful goop

And where would it be sealed to ?

[unborn jackal]

With concious. This goop was not gdorf himself, but more of a fragment of him.

[unborn jackal]

Where does ganondorf get sealed to? We dont know (or at least i dont know, lul)

[fallow moth]

Would be unconsciously tho, 'cause he doesn't know Link in TotK

But that's the same for every Malice bit in BotW

Not just Calamity

[unborn jackal]

He literally says his name?

[fallow moth]

He doesn't know him for the Calamity

Sorry I used the wrong words here

Yes he does know him

[unborn jackal]

Did you listen to my message? Its a fragment of gdorf, a seperate part of him

[fallow moth]

But only because Rauru taunted him as he was being sealed

[fallow moth]

I wasn't sure, I'm not saying you didn't say that, I was just expliciting it to be sure we were on the same page

[unborn jackal]

Debateable. I mean: he knows him either way

[fallow moth]

He doesn't recognize the Master Sword either

[unborn jackal]

Ahh, ok nah you good. Wasnt fast enough writing

[unborn jackal]

Tbf, he knows what he is wielding there. "The sword that seals evil", or idk how he calls it in the japanese

[fallow moth]

But anyway
Yeah Malice is sentient, but all of it is, not just Calamity
Why would the Calamity have someting to be sealed and not the Guardians at Fort Hateno ?

To me Zelda believes it's a sealing power 'cause it's what the legends talk about, but she just uses her light powers to nuke the hell out of Malice

And since it's gone, everyone misinterprets it as being sealed

Everyone in-universe

[unborn jackal]

The guardians are fueled by the calamity, thats why the sealing power even worked at them. It "exocised" them

[fallow moth]

Not fueled, possessed

Exorcising is right in this case

[unborn jackal]

Well, for the calamity youre right. It just got overwhelmed by the pure force of anti-evil power, but this power seals nonetheless.
This power, if applied at something that was actually there, wouldve sealed it, but since ganon wasnt a real thing and more of a phantom, it just perished

[unborn jackal]

Ah yes, that was the word i searched for

[fallow moth]

Yeah we can agree on that

It can seal, but Ganon got nuked

[unborn jackal]

I mean: it gets called sealing power in all games or something similar, but what proof do we have that its not just a magic nuke?

[fallow moth]

Well it's not really the same in all games, BotW's one looks really more like a ball of energy than a sealing power tbh

[high sun]

I just don't really get this idea of any ganondorf made worse by being related to something else?

Its just a really odd feeling to get since the games still stand? Skyward Sword already did this with the Demise curse anyway.

[high sun]

Technically light is equated with "exorcism" in JP (what the shrines are called) so the idea of sealing makes more sense in that context

[fallow moth]

We came to an agreement anyway

[high sun]

It also seems to have some sort of healing capacity so who knows 😅

[modern tree]

Lol what agreement

[fallow moth]

@modern tree

[gray swift]

I have a feeling that the War was much longer than what we saw and that at some point he probably did, but the Demon King was basically a demigod and tanked that shit

[gray swift]

Also call it a hunch about the Dark Beast Ganon thing

But Dark Beast is just his boss subtitle in TP

And while that is adopted into his actual name in BotW, I feel like in CaC when they mention “Dark Beast Ganon” it’s more of a title for Ganon than him literally becoming a giant castle sized flaming ooze pig

Alternatively I might make some bullshit nonsense and say that the original concept for OoT’s Shadow of the Colossus Ganon fight concept is canon and then we can have the giant flaming ooze pig or some shit idk

[pseudo sequoia]

[high sun]

on the timeline page of masterworks it says (my own summary) 'ganondorf transformed into dark beast ganon' and then immediately goes on to use 'ganon' on its own. This happens in other places too so im pretty sure it can be called an epithet.

[gray swift]

My thoughts exactly

[modern tree]

Calamity Ganon’s True Identity and Origins & Lore Analysis on Ganondorf

Calamity Ganon’s True Identity and Origins & Lore Analysis on Ganondorf

ignore that. that was a dumb idea.

[fallow moth]

[modern tree]

In 5 days… Part Two…

Yknow finally.

[trail sparrow]

This thread is over a thousand messages long this is enough please

[modern tree]

no.

[trail sparrow]

1082

[modern tree]

Part Two is going here.

[trail sparrow]

I’m scared

[modern tree]

to continue the discussion.

lol

and if it doesn’t gain traction, I’ll just post something new.

[gray swift]

God help us

[modern tree]

Couldn't be today. I have to delay it until tomorrow night est.

[gray swift]

I'd like nothing more to smash than to smash the Demon King

[nocturne dagger]

Same

[gray swift]

where is it

[fallow moth]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gone-reduced-to-atoms-end-game-infinity-war-gif-15573921

[high sun]

Hes still cooking 🙌

[fallow moth]

Yeah but if he cooks for too long it'll end up burned

[modern tree]

Some issues arised, like.. too many ideas, and I'm improving some cutscenes with beter quality and some other stuff I can't really make.. go.. faster.

But yes, I'm 95% done with it, it's a closing statement I'm creating. It's not reduced to atoms, that's just team reboot after this post.

[unborn jackal]

fucking lie

[modern tree]

80%

[fallow moth]

Lmao it decreased so fast

[modern tree]

It’s literally around 89%

realistically

and don’t trust Vollgeraet, he doesn’t read the gc.

[unborn jackal]

I dont

[fallow moth]

Neither do I

[gray swift]

Groundbreaking idea

Ganondorf is the real phantom Ganon all along

Calamity Ganon was the real deal and this was a fake-out for the inevitable reveal of The Sequel to Tears of the Kingdom (2085)

[unborn jackal]

The Zegend of Legend:
Pears for the bears

[civic violet]

The Legend of Zelda: Phantoms of Potatoms

[gray swift]

4:54

[modern tree]

Oh hell no, that was stupid.
I made a critical error in something I made, I thought I’d be done.

Next time stamp won’t be posted unless I know for certain, however, I can say it’ll be posted before August 18th. 12 hours before posting, I’ll notify it.

[gray swift]

You’re playing with my emotions

[gray swift]

When

[rapid hemlock]

It will be finished when it's finished

[unborn jackal]

hm... yep, the floor is made of floor

[gray swift]

It appears the due date was moved back

This is most disappointing

[trail sparrow]

That one critical error must’ve been a pretty bad one

[modern tree]

I can say that’s the final verdict.
and it’s delayed for personal reasons.
also, it’s not gonna be a rushed theory which is really good.

@trail sparrow No, not really. Sometimes things are hard to fit into discord. I have to edit sections, add in new pieces of evidence. Verdict changes a little. I was also not even close to being finished at the time, thought I’d be.

[fallow moth]

(Just as an info, editing a message and adding a ping won't ping the person)

[modern tree]

Kinda the idea.

[fallow moth]

Oh ok then

[modern tree]

The Calamities Hidden Origins, Demon King's Significance, The Sacred Seal & Secret Stone’s Analysis

title reveal

[round canyon]

Hate to break it to ya

But

*Calamity’s

[modern tree]

It’s a shit title. I know. Couldn’t fit enough characters

No, it’s plural.

More than one, so there’s an ies.

[round canyon]

Then it would be “ Calamities’ “ I think

[modern tree]

I looked it up, I was correct the first time. Calamities works because it also describes natural disasters irl, as Calamities but they don’t use a ‘

[round canyon]

Well in this case you’ll want to use the possessive plural form, which I think is “ Calamities’ “

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[modern tree]

Hm, okay.

The Calamities’ Hidden Origins, Demon King's Significance, The Sacred Seal & Secret Stone’s Analysis

[round canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/chop-approve-cop-approve-lulus-jalan-boleh-gif-9606558

[modern tree]

correct title reveal

[round canyon]

Also, “Stone’s” shouldn’t be in possessive form

[modern tree]

For Christ sake

[round canyon]

It should be “stones”

[round canyon]

*Christ’s

Soz

[modern tree]

The Calamities’ Hidden Origins, Demon King's Significance, The Sacred Seal & Secret Stones Analysis

corrected title reveal
for real this time

[civic violet]

Ffs can't even write the name properly

[modern tree]

Ffs you had one job.

[civic violet]

I did. But I was eating.

[modern tree]

Same, got a birthday to attend today, so I had to change it from 5 to 6.
p.s when I’m posting it’s gonna take like an hour.

[civic violet]

Oof

[rapid hemlock]

Yep

[gray swift]

Bullshit

[modern tree]

no. I did say before I wouldn’t say unless I was certain.

[gray swift]

Soon

[modern tree]

Uh oh

[modern tree]

Gonna just announce this now. I was supposed to get some footage that I shot last weekend today to meet my deadline, but somebody forgot a flash drive last weekend.
Now, I have to get the footage this weekend, instead of posting it.

It won’t be long after the 18th, just won’t be before the 18th. Sorry. This time though, it’s not because of my stupidity. (At least 5 days from today, perhaps. It’s truly so much information to cover, it has to be delayed, and it doesn’t help I’m writing about things that wasn’t released when I wrote it.)

[unborn jackal]

Smells like excuses...

[gray swift]

https://tenor.com/view/reddit-mario-judah-bruh5-rap-rapper-gif-18987671

[gray swift]

when

[unborn jackal]

No

[round canyon]

Any hour now I think

[trail sparrow]

Can he wait until I’m not on vacation

I wanna read at 2am the day after a month long trip while I’m jetlagged with nothing to do

[unborn jackal]

No you will read it while on vacation. Readit!

[trail sparrow]

Chill ill be back Friday night

You waited over a month

You can wait another 5 days

No 3

[modern tree]

Relax, I’m still cooking anyway.

[trail sparrow]

Gotta dry age it right

[round canyon]

With all due respect, wouldn’t an ocean work just as well as, if not better than a castle to keep the seal intact?

[pseudo sequoia]

Absolutely not.

There is an emphasis on how it is not ok for someone to so much as go into the room while it is full of air, for fear of disturbing and breaking the seal.

i.e. someone merely walking into the room was a sufficient disturbance to dislodge Rauru's arm and the Secret Stone

Now imagine the violent force of water at the bottom of an ocean breaching the chamber and the magnitude of damage it would deal to the contents of said chamber

There would not be a Ganondorf body if he had experienced that kind of event

Let alone a Rauru arm still attached to said body

[fallow moth]

I don't think this was always the case, it's just plain logic to want to avoid people from going into the all important room where the beloved King sacrificed himself to keep the root of all evil at bay

[gray swift]

August

28th

2023

[gray swift]

August 29th, 2023

[fallow moth]

Let's not count the days

[modern tree]

It’s coming, the hardest part is complete.

[gray swift]

Hmm

[modern tree]

Alright time to count down the days!

📣 Since the footage is complied and ready, I believe it’s time to make this final announcement.

In 3-4 days I should be releasing Part Two
finally, right?

I’m excited to reveal what I’ve got in store. It’s truly a colossal amount of information, and I know everyone will be just as equally entertained with what I have to present!
It’ll be released with some high spirits for sure, and not just from me either. I’ve worked with some other theorists behind the scenes to create this, although I did have to write the theory in its entirety.

There’s been some issues & personal plans going on behind the scenes I’ve had to work through, and attend to.
However, with that aside, the time for theorizing is almost here! That’s a promise, and I’m hoping to deliver something special after 2 months of working on this.

My best estimate as of now…

48 hours from now is the earliest point.

96 hours from now is the latest point.

[high sun]

Throwback to when it was "5 days" a month ago 😅

[modern tree]

Literally.

It’s been delayed so much, that footage was annoying to make.

[high sun]

Ftr its a fucking novella (I've seen it)

[modern tree]

lmao

[trail sparrow]

I feel like the “welcome to the anniversary of our 2 week [ Insert thing here]” is becoming a staple in our world

[high sun]

We will never discover ganons true identity.

[trail sparrow]

Just like Obamas last name

[modern tree]

Kinda glad I removed that from the title.

[gray swift]

is this the final part or will there be a third

[modern tree]

I was going to do a third on the establishment of Hyrule, but I decided to cram it into part two since it's relevant to what's presented.

so, honestly it depends how pt.2 goes before I can say for sure.

[round canyon]

So between 8:40pm EST August 31 and 8:40pm EST September 2?

[modern tree]

At the very least yeah, a good friend of mine thinks she’s got COVID so for all I know it’s gonna need to be pushed back like a day or so.
But I don’t actually know if I need to do that yet. I’ll keep everybody updated.
(also yes, EST)

[gray swift]

So about that

[round canyon]

He still has a few hours, it’s currently 11:34 AM EST

[gray swift]

Today is September 3

[round canyon]

:O

How did I

[rapid hemlock]

Part 2 is about to be more anticipated than totk

[round canyon]

FR

[modern tree]

I have a friend who was sick & I’m unfortunately out-of-state. (I’m in the USA)
I wasn’t able to foresee this stuff happening obviously, I thought I’d be able to release it sooner. (As I did the last 7 times I said so.)
Although, my friend is doing better now!
and I’m coming back home tomorrow, so who knows? It’s fairly soon, just a slight bump I wasn’t expecting.
As I said before, 12 hours before I post this I’ll say—
||12 Hours remaining…|| (there isn’t actually, just an example)
or something, and when it says ~end of post (or thread)~ at the end, that’s the cue that I’m done posting.

[round canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/any-minute-now-waiting-spongebob-gif-25988659

[round canyon]

👀

[twilit terrace]

any minute now

[round canyon]

When I asked him about it in his DMs, he had this to say:
Superspacy28:

So anyway, what’s the status of part 2?
Twilight Prince:
Slow.
[data expunged at owner’s request] puts a massive crunch on your time.
Superspacy28:
Yep, that explains it
Though it might help your reputation to say that in the server ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Twilight Prince:
Eh, I needed a better excuse for a delay, especially for something that’s about to finished. Nobody cares about personal stuff.

[rapid hemlock]

FR I'm tired of people having lives just post your discord Zelda theories

[round canyon]

Twilight Prince:

Eh, I needed a better excuse for a delay, especially for something that’s about to finished. Nobody cares about personal stuff.
@modern tree unless my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, it seems like they DO care

It appears you did not, in fact, need a Better excuse

[modern tree]

Alright, it’s never okay to leak DMs, no matter what.

[round canyon]

Ye, I probably should’ve asked you first

[modern tree]

If it helps, I am kinda racing other creators with the topic of Ganondorf.
So my deadline is actually before the 18th, but that’s mostly because my nitro expires then.

But yes, things are gonna be slow because I have a life
Im not some keyboard warrior that doesn’t shave.

[round canyon]

🇨🇦 Sorry, consider this lesson learned, consider this something that won’t happen again, etc. etc. 🇨🇦

[round canyon]

(If this apology isn’t in a serious enough format, I can make a more serious one, btw)

[modern tree]

Let me rephrase,
so, if you could remove the personal bit, that’s fine.
The one replying to postman? I’m not gonna lose sleep over that.

[round canyon]

Consider that data [data expunged]-ified

[shadow abyss]

I do like this theory, I would like to add or point out a few things.

I mentioned this in the temple of time channel, so it might be worth something here. C.Ganon, we can agree is not just physically different from Ganondorf but intentionally. TOTK Ganondorf precedes OoT by a bit, of which time there was no Ganondorf.

However, in OoT we see Ganondorf, and it could be argued if this is a incarnation (a rebirth of the hatred and grudge). This Ganondorf, being defeated, also bore a grudge against but not against the same people. TOTK Ganondorf had a bone to pick with the king of Hyrule (and Zelda). Link, or the one who holds the master sword)…weren’t part of the grudge.

So I think that we can look at “grudge” from two view points: TOTK Ganondorf’s grudge which doesn’t directly implicate Link and OoT Ganondorf’s grudge which directly implicates Link. C.Ganon’s behavior connects to Link’s because after it’s resurrection, the Shiekah tech was asleep until what point…Link woke up.

All of this is to say that C.Ganon…physically comes from the source which is TOTK Ganondorf. However, it’s primal drive and will to destroy doesn’t just come from TOTK Ganondorf. I think that OoT Ganondorf (and his subsequent defeats) is what created the consciousness of C.Ganon while TOTK Ganondorf created the substance of C.Ganondorf.

C.Ganon is in a way two separates parts that make the whole: one part malice (coming from TOTK Ganondorf) and one part the will to destroy (and with some strategy in mind). I say separate because TOTK Ganondorf doesn’t mention any knowledge about the events that happened in BOTW, so it’s safe to say that…there is no spiritual (or maybe cerebral) connection between the two.

Lastly the hammer this point home. The transformation of C.Ganon into the boar makes it evident as to the genesis of it’s hatred. That hatred started in the Era of myth ie OoT, not in the era of the “founding” of Hyrule.

Similar to TOTK Ganondorf who is an incarnation of the grudge that Demise held against Zelda and Link. Evidence of the Genesis of TOTK Ganondorf’s hatred is alluded to in the same way as C.Ganon’s. TOTK Ganondorf final form (not the dragon) is essentially inspired by Demise.

[fallow moth]

wdym the Sheikah tech was asleep until Link woke up ? Only the towers and shrines were, which aren't tied to Calamity Ganon in any way

Also, TotK Ganondorf had a sort of grudge against Link, or at least a certain relation to him, as the King told him to remember his name when he was sealed

oh and also BotW told us that there hasn't been a man in the Gerudo tribe in ages, probably meaning that there can't be 2 males alive at the same time, sealed or not, which rules out the existence of OoT Ganondorf between the founding and TotK

As for the boar, Ganondorf has always been linked to this animal, it makes sense to keep it that way

[unborn jackal]

well, the tech was sleeping, till link activated the shieka tower of the great plateau, which sent a signal to the control unit (or however that thing was called) below hyrule castle, which not only activated all the shieka shit, but also ganon

[fallow moth]

Not really

The tower only activated the towers and shrines

The Guardians were active during 100 years

And Ganon was reforming his body and reacted to the signal, but the signal itself didn't do shit to him

[modern tree]

I agree with Concepts.

for once.

[fallow moth]

Lmao

[shadow abyss]

Let me address this since I gotta find a source for the first portion.

I would argue Totk didn’t have a grudge against Link. He was warned about something but that isn’t the same thing as “I hate this person”.

In addition, Totk Ganondorf mocked Link. If Totk had a grudge it would have been based on something or previous meeting.

[fallow moth]

Hence why I said "or at least a certain relation"

[shadow abyss]

Even then, the relation isn’t direct if you get what I mean. I don’t see where a grudge would spawn.

[shadow abyss]

Yes it makes sense for the boar to be Ganondorf…but not so based on the actually Ganondorf buried under the castle.

[fallow moth]

The Calamity doesn't seem to have a grudge against Link tbh

[shadow abyss]

Yes…and no. I might have to clarify my point. When I said that “C.Ganon’s behavior connects to Link”, I should have said hero. C.Ganon. C.Ganon fought against a hero (who we will call Link until further evidence suggests otherwise) and the princess during it’s first revival. In addition, C.Ganon is considered an “ancient evil” that keeps coming back again and again.

The sealed and revived state, would perpetuate the grudge that Ganon would have against the Hero and princess. C.Ganon being more connected to that cycle than TOTK Ganondorf (who has been sleep all the while “Ganon” has been in this cycle).

[fallow moth]

I don't think it was the same Calamity

Just one of many, subconsciously produced from 0 by the sealed Dorf everytime

[shadow abyss]

Can you explain further?

[fallow moth]

I see the Calamities as big blights, to put it simply
Amalgations of malice and in BotW's case, Sheikah tech
I don't think Zelda sealed the Calamity at the end of BotW, she just completely obliterated it with her light powers, and I think every princess did exactly that, for every Calamity there may have been

[shadow abyss]

Interesting.

How can Zelda have sealing powers, yet the result is that she kills in the process?

[fallow moth]

Does it really look like a seal to you ? It's a big explosion
It hardly looks like any other seal we've ever seen in the series
I think she believes she seals it, however we know that light powers are extremely effective against dark powers
And there's nothing to seal, it's just motivated goop, that can't handle the light powers of Zelda
Moreover, she uses the same powers to both save Link from the Guardians and "seal" the Calamity
But we clearly see that the Guardians aren't sealed or gone or anything, it just removed the dark influence of the malice

It's a Malice Cleaner 1000

[shadow abyss]

Ahh, i can see your logic.

I would say Zelda does sort of encapsulates C.Ganon both in Age of Calamity and BOTW. So I would still say “seal” but it would beg the question “what exactly is being sealed?”.

[fallow moth]

And where

Ganondorf is very clearly sealed at the very place he was sealed in, but the Calamity straight up disappears

[shadow abyss]

Guardians as you say are machines, so essentially Zelda is “unplugging” then from the source which is malice. But that would mean Malice is conscious enough to spread and influence it’s (C.Ganon) will.

TOTK Ganondorf is sealed but the spirit of OoT Ganondorf still exists also, and we have to assume in some sort of tandem.

[fallow moth]

As I said I don't believe "the spirit of OoT Dorf" is present

Another point against that would be "why would his spirit linger ?" He died in every timeline

So even if you believe OoT happened in-between the founding and TotK, there'd be no reason for that to happen

[shadow abyss]

We know why his spirit lingers, he has a grudge. The fact is this Dorf actually does get revived and reincarnated often tells me, his spirt doesn’t just stop existing because reasons.

[fallow moth]

Malice is essentially tangible pure hatred
I would assume that any being formed from malice would be motivated with the same hatred it was created from
Hence why Calamities rampage Hyrule for millenias and Ganondorf doesn't seem to be aware of it
His hatred physically flowed out of him and went on to destroy and kill as much as possible

However, I wonder how it could learn

Since BotW's Calamity very clearly adapted from its previous defeat, which I guess would mean it could either be the same, or that malice is like a hive mind, gathering more and more info to grow stronger and stronger every time

[shadow abyss]

C.Ganon is not mindless but actually strategic which would tell me some form of consciousness exists that is separate from it’s host TOTK dorf

[fallow moth]

The hivemind idea seems to make more sense to me, especially because of the eyes
They all share the same eyes and the malice itself is never completely gone, so it make sense that some could remain and keep the info

[fallow moth]

It depends which form
The last phase in BotW seems to be completely mindless

Or just angry

[round canyon]

It shrinks down into a little black hole-looking thing at the end of the cutscene IIRC

[shadow abyss]

I would say angry. Like you said, it did remember what caused it’s defeat pre-BOTW and planned (and acted) accordingly

[fallow moth]

Implosion much

[shadow abyss]

TOTK Ganondorf had no memory of what was going on the centuries ( I assume) he was locked in the “basement” of hyrule castle. So the “eyes” you were talking about must be exclusive to C.Ganon…how that ties into the gloom that is leaking from TOTK dorf is the questions.

We essentially have to figure out why TOTK dorf’s gloom manifested into malice…gained a consciousness…and keeps coming back

My best answer is that the “spirit” of malice is from OoT dorf and the gloom is just TOTK dorf stuff

[fallow moth]

I think there was a constant flow of malice (low quality gloom) out of the seal

Simple answer

[shadow abyss]

I think the OP of this thread makes the point that the two aren’t the same not just based on name but other characteristics. Malice is a bit more active of a substance whereas gloom is passive. You can protect yourself from gloom (armor) but I don’t recall being able to do that with malice.

Although i think a flaw in my theory are the gloom hands that follow you in hyrule.

[fallow moth]

You can protect yourself from gloom thanks to strange armor traded by statues in the Depths and with potions made from heavenly flowers
None of these are available in BotW, we don't know if they wouldn't have worked

The bosses explode in malice-looking smokes when they die, in TotK

Not gloom

(In terms of colors)

See the first pic here : #1118612077804798062 message

[shadow abyss]

Yes but my point is that there is (and was) no protection from malice. There is (and was) protection from gloom. The assumption is that gloom considerably predates malice to the point an ancient people had armor for safety.

Malice is relatively new, which i do think is based on gloom, but manifested itself to be a separate thing.

In regards to the explosion we get from blights in BOTW and bosses in TOTK. For similar reasons, the enemies are empowered by Ganon…the source of that empowerment differs. In TOTK, that dorf is the source. In BOTW, C.Ganon is the source. While they are the same color, i think is more a design choice than anything.

But let’s assume it wasn’t just for aesthetics…we don’t know the origins of theses monsters. These could have been fossils that TOTK Dorf revived. I will say that how the bosses in TOTK explode is a little different from how they exploded in BOTW.

We know with the blights, they looked to be leaking before they exploded…assumingely because they are spirits in body suits. In TOTK, i don’t recall seeing anyone “leak” anything.

[fallow moth]

They do, check them out, especially the Spirit Temple's boss

And yeah malice in this case is "newer" since it's a toned down version of Gloom
Ganondorf could create gloom before he subconsciously created malice, so yeah in that regard it's younger

And Calamity Ganon isn't the source of malice, it's made of malice itself
The source is Ganondorf

If I make a clay monster and that monster throws parts of himself here and there, would you say that he's the source or that I'm the source ?

[shadow abyss]

Good point!. I just rewatched that and I am almost convinced that what was leaking was malice since the color was a stark contracts to the red gloom in the room.

By source i mean, C.Ganon made the blights. I could have phrased that better

…i got get my day started. So feel free to reply, I will reply later.

[fallow moth]

Have a nice day

[unborn jackal]

Sorry, bad wording from me. Ganon wasnt waked (woke woked wokened), but rather responded to it, because his ass was basically sleeping above the central unit thing

[fallow moth]

"Sleeping"
He was fighting against Zelda and trying to create a coherent form

I don't think he spent 100 years just chilling x)

[unborn jackal]

Try sealing something that has no body. The holy sealing just evaporated it

[fallow moth]

We already discussed this yeah

No need to repeat what I said

(Or what Missi said)

[unborn jackal]

The outcome is basically the same. Ganon just wasnt there anymore

[fallow moth]

Btw, didn't the Calamity react to Zelda rather than to the tower ?

[unborn jackal]

To come back to that: iirc its said that he only started building his body after the awakening call from the shieka towers, explaining his bad dental care and complete amalgamation of a body

[fallow moth]

Iirc, a light comes from the castle then we see the Calamity roaring

[unborn jackal]

I would have to google and rewatch the cutscene, but im too lazy to do that

[fallow moth]

I'd need a source of that, but I guess I could see it ?

[unborn jackal]

Ok i just rewatched it and only got to witness a full-capitalism king rhoam

Scam

[fallow moth]

What ? x)

[unborn jackal]

"there is no such thing as a free item"

[fallow moth]

x)

Fair

[shadow abyss]

With OoT Dorf, his body and spirit can be sealed and he manages to revive (or reincarnate). In the case of C.Ganon, I do believe every revival is his spirit…yes it doesn’t have a body but it does behave as though it has a mind and can enact a will. That will imo doesn’t come from TOTK Dorf but from OoT dorf. How that works is the mystery.

[modern tree]

Yeah, the way I see the common methods of thinking about these things just makes me even more confident in my own theory. While I don’t necessarily agree with everything here, it’s what I see pretty much everywhere.

@shadow abyss glad you liked it, but-
obviously there’s an updated version coming up. Also, C.Ganon? Can we just say Calamity or CG? Just my little peeve, I didn’t know what you meant for the longest time.

[gray swift]

Galamity Canon

[unborn jackal]

the worse canon

[gray swift]

This thread has met with a terrible fate, hasn’t it?

[modern tree]

Today was a massive day for it's development actually.

Sorry I haven't kept any of you in the loop, I got pretty sick recently.

[trail sparrow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/252469557757739008/1116919452827656212/uzgb73segzf91.gif

Dance with us while we await part two with earnest

[modern tree]

Mkay, time to reveal another detail since it’s been so long.

Flu season arrived so I’ve been sick, but as far as Pt.2 is concerned, everything got longer and far more vast in this project than I initially anticipated from the start. I’ll reveal that for right now it’s 12 chapters long and possibly counting from this moment. I’m aiming for the end of the month (at the absolute most) for every chapter to be written, proofread, and delivered here.

and it won’t matter if you’re familiar with the series or relatively new either, it’s designed for anybody reading it to have a grasp on every detail that’s presented. From people who make a living off Zelda, to people that never picked up a copy of Zelda in their life.

I’m excited to finally release what I’ve been keeping under wraps pretty soon, I know a lot of this has been delayed for quite some time. But, in my humble opinion, this is no small feat from myself, and everyone there that worked on this with me and I’m hoping you all enjoy it as well! It’ll be quite the treat whenever it arrives.

[gray swift]

https://tenor.com/view/link-zelda-ganon-ganondorf-who-is-going-to-win-gif-19686065

[trail sparrow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/252469557757739008/1116919452827656212/uzgb73segzf91.gif

Cucci ganon always wins

[gray swift]

soon

[fallow moth]

Today is a very special day for this channel

2 months ago was the first announced release date for part 2

[trail sparrow]

Lul

[gray swift]

how time flies by

[gray swift]

It approaches

[fallow moth]

What is ?

[gray swift]

It

[gray swift]

Can you feel the March of the Ages? A new dawn rises soon.

[trail sparrow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/252469557757739008/1116919452827656212/uzgb73segzf91.gif

Now we dance

[trail sparrow]

Daily dance routine

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/252469557757739008/1116919452827656212/uzgb73segzf91.gif

[fallow moth]

Please don't spam in this channel

(or anywhere really)

[round canyon]

It’s only once per day

This channel just isn’t very active

[fallow moth]

There's no need to keep an inactive channel artificially alive
If there's nothing to add to the theory, then the channel is archived automatically
And can be unarchived by anyone if there's something to add

[modern tree]

Don’t archive it.

[fallow moth]

automatically

can be unarchived by anyone

Literally nothing wrong with it

[modern tree]

I got something to add, but I’ve been tasked with just not saying anything about release dates since I was wrong so many times. Even if it wasn’t my fault.

I can say I’m workshopping some stuff today. Inactivity in this channel doesn’t mean I’m not still cooking.

[fallow moth]

And I didn't say it's what it meant

[gray swift]

skull emoji

[unborn jackal]

Pretty sure that thing wont archivate that fast if we write that frequent

also that stew he is cooking may take its time, but the upside is, that its taking its time

[gray swift]

https://tenor.com/view/cooking-food52-stir-mixing-stew-gif-16976839

[trail sparrow]

It’s been almost 20 days

[modern tree]

Part Two is going into a separate thread, since this theory is far too outdated.

Lorulean was very influential in Part One, and since his fallout in the community, we’ve had to untangle many things. Making Part Two no longer a follow-up to this thread, which means, it shouldn’t be called Part Two anymore

I won’t go into the drama about Lorulean here, if you’re really curious please take it to my DMs. My theory has changed a lot, and it’s something the big names have avoided posting videos about. The community has seen a lack of theories lately, and I’m gonna change that soon.

Expect something after Christmas. I have a better computer now, so things will move much faster than before. I’ll keep the project’s progress updated then.

[rapid hemlock]

I don't feel like we should really be gossiping about old server members at all. Though I can't stop you from DMing about it I would just say let it go rather than dragging out the issue

Also what do you mean by untangle many things?

[unborn jackal]

Doing nothing and realising that the theory needs to be released someday

[fallow moth]

I'm not sure Lorulean fell out "in the community" but rather "in your friend group"

[modern tree]

It’s not gossip because I limited it to DMs. I won’t discuss the why here, (I know discussing it here would get me in trouble, that’s a no-brainer) so like I said if you really want to know, ask me there. There’s no issue, just when theorizing on his material back then it was fine, but today it’s become not so credible anymore.

[modern tree]

You definitely know a part of what happened, so I shouldn’t need to explain it to you.
He was never in our friend-group, if you wanna know just ask.
but I know you don’t know, so don’t throw that around for absolutely no reason.

[modern tree]

untangle what’s true and what’s false.
(more research)

[rapid hemlock]

I don't really want to argue with you but I will say just because you dislike someone doesn't mean they aren't credible

[modern tree]

Where did I say I disliked him?

[twilit terrace]

Lorulean is a credible source
You still need to prove that you're credible

[unborn jackal]

As soon as part 2 is out we will see

[twilit terrace]

Yup

Because honestly Lorulean did nothing that harmed his credibility yet
It's a personal grudge that you have against him TP

And you still have to prove your credibility because your past translations were extremely lacking and were corrected by people in the community on a regular basis

[unborn jackal]

Tbf, some of his translations were biased

Like: nodged a little bit into the direction of his takes

Not much, but a small bit.

[twilit terrace]

He translated it in a manner that was fitting to the context

[unborn jackal]

Fitting to the context does not mean unbiased tho. They werent inheretly wrong, but not 1:1 translation

[twilit terrace]

You shouldn't forget that japanese letters have multiple meanings sometimes

[unborn jackal]

(iirc. The last time i was involved in that subject something along those lines was mentioned)

[high sun]

@twilit terrace I can provide some context if you wish but doesn't feel fair to do it publicly

[twilit terrace]

I know the context, no need to tell me

That's why i said it is mostly personal

[high sun]

This is sort of correct but not really the cause behind any translation differences (as a general comment).

Issue one: Japanese is a very context dependent language, though it's usually entire words or phrases that would have different meaning.

Issue two: small grammar nuances can do a lot

Issue three: A lot of Japanese words don't translate exactly to English. It's more like your best estimation and sometimes people disagree on the nuances. This is why I personally hesitate to descibe NOA as blatantly wrong sometimes.

I hope this doesn't come off as um actually but I really wanted to clarify issue three especially.

[twilit terrace]

Yeah the japanese language is very dependent on context which i said earlier and is also what some people tried to discredit Lorulean with

i kept it short for the sake of simplification

I also know that the actions of you guys that tried to get Lorulean banned on this and other servers were based on absolutely wrong information and heavy misunderstanding of his twitter posts which were absolutely clear for everyone that was looking upon this from the outside. I saw the tweets and he didn't mean you guys but some other people in his comments. Because you guys felt so easily offended over something that didn't even mention you guys in the slightest, you now try to destroy his reputation and credibility. That's some next level toxic shit knowingly or not

@high sun

Btw end of the story there

You don't need to provide me with context if the context was already provided when you guys tried to prevent him from rejoining forever

[high sun]

I feel uncomfortable being included in "you guys" if that's what you mean because I'm not really involved in the rest of the situation

All I care about is the language aspects, which I have now hopefully explained to you personally

[twilit terrace]

Yeah you did

it was a very good explaination

I didn't know how much or if you're involved in this matter, but it was mostly TP who tried to push it through on multiple servers you're excluded from the "you guys"

[modern tree]

I have nothing against him, and with all due respect, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
You don’t know what happened, I never translated anything, I had someone else handle the Japanese (livix)
I’ve done nothing in my theories for anybody to suspect my credibility is jack.
and for the final time, I don’t have a personal grudge on Lor.

[modern tree]

The Twitter situation was handled on a different server, and didn’t concern you in the slightest. It was also handled privately, but thanks for your opinion, I guess. and bringing it out publicly. (I know that’s your favorite thing, bringing private things out to the public eye)
Even if it was put to the table, that’s not grounds to ruin any credibility he has.
There was much more that’s happened with Lor, that created distrust. He’s fallen out with a lot of major names, and some have exposed his bias in translating.

Essentially because Lor became untrustworthy with his Japanese ability, I chose not to use his material anymore, then I went to livix, who’s famously held an unbiased approach to her work. All she wants is people having access to accurate information. Her translations are very direct, unbiased, and I’ve found to be the most accurate out of a lot of other material I’ve seen.
Simple as that, I shouldn’t need to explain myself any further.

and I’m tired of the baseless accusations that me, or my friend group toxicly hate Lorulean for no reason.
If you don’t know what’s going on, ask. Don’t just say random things.

[high sun]

Side bar but I'm not aware of any major disagreements with my translations (if thats what was being referred to - please direct me if so)

[modern tree]

Neither am I, Luci thought I was the translator I think.

[modern tree]

You can see who is credited for the Japanese, and I didn’t ever mention myself for that,
So while this theory is outdated, the information I used isn’t.
The conclusion is wrong though.
@fallow moth I’m sure you’ll be very thrilled to hear, OoT Ganon is not the Calamity after all.
This new theory goes on his origins but, it’s not what most people expect I think. It’s something I’ve heavily discussed with people, and I’ve created a conclusive amount of evidence for myself to use coming up.

[fallow moth]

It's at least that

I'd have a hard time believing that the Calamity could be anything except Malice spewed from Ganondorf's body under the castle though, so good luck with that

But we'll see what you think it is in due time

[waxen quiver]

the lack of ingame talk about this is weird tho

in one of the devs interviews they said that the calamity ganons destruction and use of hyrule castle made razru decay in the 100years which weakend the seal

going by that tho the seal would have been intact until then

from that view the calamity could be more then just gloom coming out of ganondorf

calamity ganon is also not connected to ganondorf as theorized before totk (hive mind theory)

as ganondorf only recognizes link through the master sword

[unborn jackal]

uhhh... but he is connected to gdorf. game's outright telling us

[modern tree]

That’s because the interviews didn’t surface when Part One was made, and it’s something I do extensively cover in my next addition.

Although—I do like where you’re headed with that!

[waxen quiver]

maybe connected but not in thoughts as malice worked in botw

before totk the idea was that calamity ganon is just another phantom ganon but it seems like it has a mind on its own

and its own memories

at least

[modern tree]

You can have a hive mind, but as I’ve mentioned, you can also have both.
It seems to hold a grudge against Hyrule, so this entity carries a strong hatred for the land that manifests I believe in the form of Malice.
since the Japanese for “Hatred and Malice incarnate”
is actually “Hatred and Grudge”

I believe both Ganondorf & Calamity Ganon are made to be separated villains.

[waxen quiver]

i agree

it doesnt downgrade calamity ganon and botw with that

but it creates interesting questions

i am really interested in what u came up with

very nice topic

[modern tree]

Aw, thanks. My next installment to this thread should be coming after Christmas. Just some computer issues to iron out, and then I’m good.

[pseudo sequoia]

I believe the Zelda devs build a fun game and that the story is an afterthought

[fallow moth]

The story is almost always an afterthought

The only exception may be Skyward Sword

[modern tree]

I believe both are prioritized pretty heavily.

They are always centered around new ways to play since Skyward Sword released, but the story is a pretty essential part to what makes it a Zelda game. We’ve had the same director for SS, Botw, and Totk and I believe he made these three games a very excellent blend with gameplay and story.
Especially Tears of the Kingdom. So it’s definitely worth theorizing on.

[pseudo sequoia]

they literally said that the story is an afterthought in Hyrule Historia

and that they design the game first

[modern tree]

Hyrule Historia?

[modern tree]

What page is this except in?

[pseudo sequoia]

238

[pseudo sequoia]

the continuation of that paragraph is this:

and he asks people to understand that this design philosophy may lead to continuity problems

[modern tree]

I think what I can take away from this, isn’t that the developers put such little effort in the story and therefore theorizing on story related topics is irrelevant because that’s not the case.
We should remember that LoZ is a video game series, not a cinematic universe. So of course the developers first thought is what kind of game they want to create, and what kind of environments they’d want to explore first.

[modern tree]

and these inconsistencies are extremely clear, the timeline is an ever-changing subject, and even they have flopped around games placed in their own timeline before. Even after they published this book.

I can also state that older titles are probably the most subject to change by Nintendo.

So, as far as I can go without hitting inconsistencies in my work I’ve usually found it to be Ocarina of Time, and don’t even start with the downfall timeline, that’s a whole mess.

[neat wind]

Sorry for the late message in this topic, but I think most people just don't really understand what it means for them.
During pre-prod they start focusing on gameplay because that's the most important, we have the big interview "Iwata Asks" on Skyward Sword, that explains a lot of things. Once they are done finding their ideas of gameplay, they are going to write a story to suit those ideas of gameplay. That means they don't start with a story in their head and build the gameplay around the story.
For Skyward Sword they wanted a game that focus on wii motion+ with Swords mechanics etc... they develop those mechanics, like the skyward beam (don't know the english name), they develop the items etc.. and then Aonuma told Fujibayashi "Ok because we re focusing on the Sword in this game let's tell a story about the Master Sword's origins.
And after that Fuji wrote the script, then they started to create environments, they changed the skin of items to match the lore and did a lot of other stuff.

Once they are good setting up gameplay and story, the big part of production starts. Their are a lot of good stuff to learn in the Iwata Asks.
Fujibayashi is the main author in all of his released game and he started as an author for Flagship

[fallow moth]

Isn't SS the only game in which they actually had an idea on the story they wanted to tell before anything else ?

Since it's for the 25th anniversary and all that

[unborn jackal]

Imo a story driven game should first focus on the damn lore before making the mechanics.
I understand that this is how nintendo approaches things, but for the love of god: dont do that with your story-heavy games

[fallow moth]

Given he's been banned, we don't think his messages should be relayed here (and we already told him that), and it goes the same way for advertisements of his projects

[grave light]

Huh I didn't know... alright I won't bother further
Apologized for that