Working with Custom Kez Abilities.

[unborn condor]

Hi guys, since its a new hero I don't really expect any answers but just wanting to document the development and see any opinions.

I am trying to give a unit Kez's passive abilities which is on the same ability key. It seems that if you give the Sai passive 'kez_shodo_sai' without the ability to switch to the Sai's the passive doesn't trigger its on-hit effects.

original shodo_sai ability:
https://github.com/dotabuff/d2vpkr/blob/707f313999f558b4887fd60ce2f2c82915be1ca6/dota/scripts/npc/heroes/npc_dota_hero_kez.txt#L402C3-L402C16

modded shodo_sai to give it the ability to level it and see it on castbar:

  //=================================================================================================================
    // Kez: Shodo Sai
    //=================================================================================================================
    "modded_kez_shodo_sai"
    {
        // General
        //------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
        "BaseClass"                     "kez_shodo_sai"
        "AbilityBehavior"               "DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_POINT | DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IMMEDIATE | DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_IGNORE_BACKSWING | DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_DONT_CANCEL_MOVEMENT | DOTA_ABILITY_BEHAVIOR_SHOW_IN_GUIDES"
        "SpellDispellableType"          "SPELL_DISPELLABLE_YES_STRONG"
        "SpellImmunityType"             "SPELL_IMMUNITY_ENEMIES_YES"
        "FightRecapLevel"               "1"
        "HasShardUpgrade"               "1"
        "AbilitySound"                  "Hero_Kez.Sai.Proc"
        "LinkedAbility"                 "kez_shodo_sai_parry_cancel"

Kez triggering the passive

as expected, if i give kez_switch_weapons ability and switch to sais, i can trigger the effect:

it also seems that ability draft doesnt let a player pick any of Kez's Sai abilities:

https://github.com/dotabuff/d2vpkr/blob/707f313999f558b4887fd60ce2f2c82915be1ca6/dota/scripts/npc/npc_heroes.txt#L33151

[coarse pulsar]

This is usually the case with new heroes, unless their abilities are very simple

[unborn condor]

I'm just thinking now, if I want to implement the ability on a hero without going into Sai mode, I would have to recreate it/script it.

troll_warlord_switch_stance does not trigger the effect, it must be kez_switch_weapons:
(not that it would work but just testing)

What my issue is that I gave the hero both passives but the Katana passive does not trigger when the Sai mode is active.
even when "LinkedAbility" "" is declared in kez_kazurai_katana.

like im trying to give the unit both passives at the same time

🙂

[crimson shoal]

it's hard-coded, you dont know the detail of its implementation
you dont know how it works, how it distinguish the weapon
in this case I recommend remaking these abilities
not much difficult in form

[unborn condor]

ty sir o7

[coarse pulsar]

There's also something good about recreating the scripts - you get more control over the exact behavior from them rather than having hacks

[indigo ferry]

yeah maybe I'll finish Kez sometime later, he has so much interaction to check to properly replicate in lua.
my hunch is that all the passives are stored in the switch weapon ability, since all other 4 Sai are swapped with 4 Katana abilities, which might make the Sai 3rd don't work during Katana mode

[tranquil inlet]

i have outoftopic question, in your repository can u replicate abaddon borrowed time?

[indigo ferry]

huh I thought I had it, apparently only first 2. I dont do mods lately so its not really updated, maybe when I have some time and motivation.

you can do that yourself, it should be:

1. onCast: give active_buff, strong dispel
2. has passive modifier passive_buff

active_buff:

1. AbsoluteNoDamage property, record the damage, heal according to damage

passive_buff:

1. ontakedamage, check threshold, activate if not broken

[unborn condor]

Oh its u doing the lua scripts of the heroes. Thank you for that.

Have you considered doing the neutral camps abilities in lua? 🙂

[unborn condor]

Yea I agree, Sai mode is a state for a hero to be in that unlocks all the other Sai abilities

[indigo ferry]

nothing at the moment, only hero abilities that I find interesting

[maiden briar]

The neutrals abilities are all really basic anyway right?

[coarse pulsar]

Dota IMBA has it as well and so does Bosshunter

[unborn condor]

Ah fairs

[unborn condor]

I was just thinking/wondering, how does rubick steal kez’s abilities without needing to switch form and yet i cant inherit the ability

Will demo/test now

rubick can steal it but it doesnt proc the mark passive to bash/crit

ofc rubick can still parry to proc a mark and bash

and morphling cannot trigger the proc with attacks either

[crimson shoal]

the time you spend figuring it out is enough to remake a new one

[unborn condor]

hahahah

[simple axle]

Probably the same way as he does for rest abilities. Countless checks for certain abilities in spell steal code and additional work to add all required things/adjust ability (like luna ulti working without beams present) for stealed abilities

[maiden briar]

Luna ult is funny because its based on luna herself so if she doesnt skill beam then rubicks ult doesnt do anything

[unborn condor]

Oh lmao

[midnight garnet]

Then you should probably try CDOTABaseAbility:SetStolen(stolen: bool): nil

[indigo ferry]

actually, that's kinda different on how Spell Steal works. Spell Steal, Morph, and Ability Draft is basically the same thing:
put an arbitrary Spell into any arbitrary Hero.

of course, normally a hero will have a full kit of said abilities, but Spell Steal isolates the ability from the rest of the kit and expect it to work.

So, when implementing an ability, volvo janitors supposed to test how the ability should behave if it is being isolated and put on another hero

that is exactly why in my library, I use different hero bodies for the recreated abilities, to see that it should also work regardless of the hero (except animations and such). and also the reason I separate each ability in their own folder, so they each supposed to work on their own without the rest of the kit

[coarse pulsar]

Spell Steal, Morph, and Ability Draft is basically the same thing
Not really. Ability Draft has spell logic changes on various spells, or different spells that imitate the real ones. They have their own logic.

[coarse pulsar]

This is also not exactly correct, in some cases abilities are checked when stolen for values on the original and adjusted accordingly.

But yeah, this is a good practice to make sure abilities work for any hero and doesn't rely on a specific hero or other abilities to work.

[indigo ferry]

that is what I said with "volvo janitors supposed to test how the ability should behave if it is being isolated and put on another hero"
It is not Spell Steal/Morph/Ability Draft 's job to tune in the stolen/morphed/drafted ability so that it works,
but it is the target ability itself that are expected to work when isolated and stolen. This includes additional code, change references, or even just give another new ability instead.