Unity Pricing Changes - MEGATHREAD

[radiant geyser]

I never said you’re supporting them either, just putting out a generalization which is why I didn’t say “But why are you supporting them?”

[bright zealot]

I feel like it's only "the vast majority of developers" if you include, like, every person who downloads unity and never releases something. The vast majority of developers want a job in it or to make a living somehow off of it, and this squarely effects anyone trying to do so with unity (reduced job market, companies cant pay this shit, etc)

[royal flicker]

Well i still might be on unity but gonna see how things work later on

[brisk plinth]

Are you serious now? Asking why I am supporting them implies that you believe that I do support them.

[royal flicker]

Even if some how i got 200k/year getting pro is also an option for not paying 0.2/install

[brisk plinth]

So typical; achieving a discussion with views from both parts seems quite literally impossible in 2023. Laughable.

[royal flicker]

At best i think mine around 100k download is a milestone atm

[bright zealot]

Oh, claiming moral victory instead of engaging with any of the points presented or the actual numbers provided, instead opting to take on the lowest hanging fruit and casting it over the whole arugment. Laughable; so typical in 2023.

[brisk plinth]

Claiming moral victory? Fucking hell hahaha.

[royal flicker]

Sure it gonna hit quite hard on the "successful indie" or the big ones like mihoyo or someone

[radiant geyser]

You did

[brisk plinth]

I sincerely hope these news from Unity affects you @bright zealot

[royal flicker]

But not as a newcomer like i am atm tho

[kind arch]

Keep it civil

[brisk plinth]

Nah, I'm out

[bright zealot]

Yeah, claiming your opponents are making it impossible to discuss anything at all and it's typical of 2023 is claiming a sort of moral victory as the one who wants rational discussion, even though in doing so you're engaging in a thought-terminating argument that avoids engaging with any of the numbers or points provided outside of that extremely low hanging fruit.

Simple as, it's extremely easy

[bright zealot]

Reasonable, have a good day

[radiant geyser]

Some people 🤦

[bright zealot]

It happens

I dunno if its his case but lots of people get irrationally attached to the tools they use as if they are a reflection of or part of themselves and their ability to create

I used Unreal in the 2020.1 jam and someone hopped in call to tell me to kill myself for being a fake dev, and there's another server i'm in where if you dare to criticize Unity a certain flock of people will always show up to try to deflect and minimize everything as just "things people who dont use it say"

I suspect all irrational over-defense/minimization of the flaws of tools and their parent companies comes from a similar place, I know I used to do it when I was like 14 and had only used Unity for years straight and didn't have confidence in my ability to adapt and create without it

[strong galleon]

unity still fucking sucks though, and that's a fact

[cursive torrent]

For you maybe because the features you need are in both

[bleak token]

holy shit godot bloom

[cursive torrent]

To say its on par is still stupid

godot is in early stages of development

[bright zealot]

I wouldn't call it early stages either

[kind arch]

Its just a preference

[bright zealot]

It's a full fledged engine that's very much production ready for pretty much any kind of game you can imagine, it also is naturally not up on the extra bells and whistles and convenience things that come with companies throwing cash at an engine project for 25 years like Unreal

[kind arch]

Different game engines will appeal to different people. What makes it "better" depends on their needs

[bright zealot]

Godot has 100% evolved though a lot over the last few years, I'm not sure why you were doubting that @cursive torrent

[cursive torrent]

I dont doubt that it has evolved

[bright zealot]

It's massively improved from 2 to 3 then 3 to 4

To the point where it's pretty much a production-ready engine (for the supported platforms) if you're willing to do a bit of legwork on certain things

[cursive torrent]

But to say that it has everything that unity has I doubt is true.

[bright zealot]

Yeah, it's just not true

Unity has plenty of proprietary packages and things Godot doesn't have and of course they're different architectures with naturally different approaches to the same goals

But it doesn't need to

[cursive torrent]

I doubt the render pipeline for godot is also on par

[bright zealot]

Actually godot 4's renderer is really really good

That was one of the main massive overhauls going from 3 -> 4

[bleak token]

yeah I'm trying it out rn and it's like perfectly fine

[radiant geyser]

Godot

[bright zealot]

It even supports Lumen style SDFGI (mainly because Epic funded them to develop it for them with a megagrant :P)

[bleak token]

skies are a bit weird but honestly it's probably because I just suck ass

[kind arch]

Godots node system confuses me

[bright zealot]

As with any tool you get used to it, its just different from what we're mostly all used to after years of using other tools

[bleak token]

I have not looked into it yet but it probably will confuse me as well

I want to get comfortable with the editor first

[radiant geyser]

Very confusing for a little while

But you get used to it, it’s super nice and intuitive

[bright zealot]

Personally, I've started porting the WGK to a fork of Bevy. At this point I'm looking to sever any one point of failure with a company for a tool, and I really like its architecture moreso than I care for the missing features I know I can implement myself (as I have done in other engines)

[radiant geyser]

It’s sad that Unity made such dumb decisions but it’s exciting at the same time as it’s finally opening consideration for all these other engines that have been developing and growing throughout the time we used Unity

[bleak token]

yes unity is now promoting other game engines

[bright zealot]

Dude

[kind arch]

I keep expecting things to just work like in unity
But i think godot is different in that sense? Or im just not understanding it yet

[bright zealot]

Okay

The CryTek guys are hard at work on CE 6

NDA and all so I cant say much

But I hope they decide to drop an announce preview and sweep Unity's fuckin knees out

Purely so the old king can return to his throne :P

[radiant geyser]

That’s going to be amazing! I can’t wait to see what they have brewing, it’s been so long since CE has been on the forefront

[bright zealot]

I'm a big fan of CE 5's architecture, its just hard to hire for, no resources to learn, but I love working with it. If 6 polishes this up for the end user (no more manually winding blend space polys on graph paper i beg you crytek), markets it well, and makes good resources they have a slam dunk on their hands

And they have a good plan, and are really hard at work on the thing, and seemingly very excited about it

[kind arch]

Isnt CE the most complicated thing ever?

[bright zealot]

So I am excited too

[bright zealot]

5 is, part of the focus on 6 I suspect is streamlining the experience

CE through 5.7 is an internal tool they provide to the public as a courtesy so you get all the jank with it
and all the dependencies on their 50billion other tools in the pipeline like flash
which helps complicate things
I maintain an internal fork of CE for one of my teams and yeah its a great engine with lots of potential that's just never been made actually polished and usable for indies basically

[radiant geyser]

I’ve been expecting the same thing 😂 We’ve tried migrating to unreal years ago but we kept finding ourselves going back to Unity because it’s where we were comfortable

[kind arch]

Yeaa
Im not a game dev by any means but the transition sure is humbling

[radiant geyser]

That’s going to be incredible

[kind arch]

I haven't actually touched unity in years but i had experience with it at some point

[radiant geyser]

It’s fun! It will for sure feel weird for a couple weeks or months even, like a break up almost 😂 but it’ll slowly click the same way it did for us with Unity

[radiant geyser]

Exactly 😂😂 and it’s unpaid advertising

[bright zealot]

It's funny too cuz I got 4 different Unity ads on Instagram today

Which means they're pumping the ad spend to try to counteract the PR hit

Which clearly won't work as new people coming into the engine are either experienced enough to be looped in on this anyway or not experienced enough to be worth anything to them in terms of revenue for a few more years of learning, by which point they will also find out about this

[bleak token]

I mean godot doesn't look that bad honestly (that GI thing is carrying it so hard lol)

without SDFGI

[bright zealot]

Like with Unity you have to put in some legwork to make it look appealing

I think Unreal is the only of the main 3 that looks “good” out of the box sans some GI solution, and it’s just set up with good defaults

[bleak token]

yeah, although it wasn't that bad, just mostly sky stuff and for some reason it is really undersaturated by default

without saturation boosted

[kind arch]

Yknow there is an upside to all this
The #1006674889211641856 and #1006696053879349290 channels will finally be used

[bleak token]

let's gooo

the only thing I'm wondering about is the godot % of the next gmtk jam

that's gonna be interesting to see

[spiral moon]

I think Unity still would dominate, as game jam games usually don’t make a couple hundred thousand dollars

Though maybe a lot of people will switch, so I can’t know for sure.

[bleak token]

yeah that's true but the godot users are definetly growing

just looking at the introductions channel in the godot discord alone

[spiral moon]

It’s like these news were made to support Godot

[bleak token]

there's a lot of people switching

[bright zealot]

I think people who switch because Unity just killed their job market and said they’d punish any success would choose to use the engine they switched to regardless of whether their jam game would get caught up in these rules

[royal flicker]

The engine it self not bad nor it devs

Its the leaders behind the engine only see short resort in a dream world and not being realistic for long term

[tired oracle]

any good news boys?

[zealous chasm]

Not really

They did some "clarification" which was basically just "It's not entirely what you think but we're still gonna screw you"

[crisp ice]

[subtle grotto]

They have still given absolutely no information about how they track installs

[crisp ice]

How would they know what's a demo and what's not

I'm reading they acquired some spyware company to track that stuff

[subtle grotto]

They sure did

[crisp ice]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16i0vxx/unity_is_doubling_down_on_its_plans/k0im18m/

[subtle grotto]

Yep that's where I got the screenshot from

[subtle grotto]

this one

[crisp ice]

[subtle grotto]

I need to see john ratatouille in jail

Btw not sure if anyone has seen it or if someone posted it already but

https://twitter.com/FuckedByUnity

Game Studios Disappointed By Unity (@FuckedByUnity)

Keep your finger on the pulse of all other Game Engines 📣 Follow them:
🎮 @godotengine | 🎮 @UnrealEngine | 🎮 @GameMakerEngine | 🎮 @rpgmaker

Followers

426

Tweets

105

Twitter

I think I might've posted it actually

Kenney has made their statement
https://twitter.com/KenneyNL/status/1702238644671512666/photo/1

Kenney (@KenneyNL)

Unity's actions are unacceptable, I cannot keep endorsing this.

Likes

4363

Retweets

550

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 8:31 AM

[neon sail]

The problem with switching engine is that it is not as simple as it seems for some. For example, I already committed more than a year worth of development, invested quite a bit of money into the project as well.
As much as I like the Godot engine, the simple reality is that it is not powerful enough for some type of projects. I am working on an open world game and I am pretty sure Godot cannot handle such game at this moment at least. I am sure it will improve but that might take a few years...
Unreal is powerful but has a steep learning curve. It has different coding language, architecture, workflow, etc. Switching to Unreal, would require deep understanding of the engine, which could take a substantial amount of time, as well as, recreating everything from stretch which is also quite ridiculous undertaking...
If Unity dies, I gain at least two years of delay just getting back to where I am now... And I lose a lot of money with all the wasted tools and other things I have purchased for my current project. This whole situation for some might be less critical, but for someone like me, it is beyond depressing... So unfortunately, I fail to get that 'just switch bro' attitude 🤕

[subtle grotto]

That is an understandable position to be in. I actually mentioned that in the OP - it's not always feasible to switch engines due to commitments with projects currently in development. That's totally fair.
But I hope that going forward you will reconsider. Finish this project you are making, and any future games you make, do in a new engine

[neon sail]

Future games, definitely... I love and hate Unity at the same time. In the future I will transition to Unreal I think.

[subtle grotto]

The one good thing to come of all of this is that many studios have made the decision to ditch Unity either immediately, or for all future projects. This means a lot of people will be having to gain a new skillset, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if blog posts, tutorials, and whatever else, start cropping up with tips and resources to help transition to a new engine

Like Kenney's statement that I just linked, they're going to start creating asset packs for other engines now. This is a good move

I expect to see more of this

[marsh loom]

so the major issue is f2p games but does it applies the same for crowdfunding (let's say you won 200k by kickstarter and you make your game free but 1M dl your game) do you have to give money to unity?

[bleak token]

kickstarter isn't income (?)

and also not yearly (?)

[neon sail]

Yeah that's true. The annoying part is that I have been using Unity for years and I really like this engine. Until now I haven't even considered switching. But I guess it is what it is...

[bright zealot]

Hahaha

"no charges for repeat installs" "no charges for fraudulent installs"

[bleak token]

hmm yes my favourite bullshit

[bright zealot]

That's a tall order considering it's fundamentally impossible to prove either of those things

[subtle grotto]

Yeep

How I replied: https://twitter.com/oliverlukebooth/status/1702317371690779039

Oliver Booth (@oliverlukebooth)

@unity These are not the top questions, stop trying to weasel your way out of this. How are you tracking installs? Unless you give details on how this system actually works, no one is going to trust you ever again.

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 1:44 PM

[floral sparrow]

No it isn't, install malware and track it

[bright zealot]

It is - if you're doing fraudulent installs the malware can get fucked, you know how many hardened, disguised Xen VMs with their own identifiers I can spin up and down rapidly from a base image in a couple minutes with a shell script?

Anyone can

[floral sparrow]

You also going to run each vm through a VPN?

[bright zealot]

Add some varied timing, use residential proxies and it becomes too sophisticated to easily prove before the bill hits you anyway

[bright zealot]

You've never heard of residential proxies...?

[subtle grotto]

Just have it go through Tor and use a new route each time

[floral sparrow]

I have not

[bright zealot]

They're mostly illegal but the entire activity being discussed is too

[bright zealot]

Exit nodes are too detectable

That's trivial to counter

Residential proxies are not

[bright zealot]

You can buy giant lists of hacked residential machines/home computers that have been reconfigured to work as proxy servers

If you're committing to bankrupting someone thru fraudulent installs anyway its within the range of how unethical they'd be willing to get

And it makes the process of detecting bots REALLY fucking hard

[subtle grotto]

Welp that is highly illegal but you're right that is a concern, just because it's illegal doesn't mean people aren't doing it

[bright zealot]

The entire action we're discussing is already computer fraud, so computer fraud by paying 20 bucks on a site for someone's pre-hacked list is on the table for someone willing to do it

The point is it's extremely, extremely easy to circumvent virtually any way to track repeat or fraudulent installs, given an experienced (or mildly dedicated) attacker

And the possibility for people to abuse a system fraudulently IS something that has to be considered when coming up with such a system due to the real world consequential impacts of deploying such a system, so there's no excuse for "its not their fault there are evil people out there!" as i saw someone post on twitter a bit ago

[marsh loom]

if you have the number of game bought through steam, aren't you able to calculate how much you have to give to unity ? and so contradict what unity ask you to pay?

[bright zealot]

Sure, assuming your game is only ever distributed through steam and you never, ever intend to release a DRM free game, which isnt real life for multiplatform games and games with devs who dont want to bundle it with DRM

And assuming Unity decides to include a clause for that and doesn't just make it explicitly their tracked number in the license, which they can do (altho will be sued for it at some point)

[marsh loom]

damn...

[bright zealot]

but yeah ultimately, it doesnt really matter. no company worth their salt will intend to continue revolving their entire process around this single point of failure that just proved itself fully untrustworthy

[marsh loom]

I can't understand how they will apply those changes... I just think they will use this to do another change like a %

[bright zealot]

They force spyware into the engine to detect installs -> they bill you for it when it triggers

They did buy a spyware company

lol from now on when i download a unity game i'm blocking it in the firewall before running it just to do the dev a favor :P

[marsh loom]

But company like steam epic ect will just delete the unity games out there if that's the case, right ?

[bright zealot]

Not really

Spyware in this sense is just collecting identifying information about your machine and the game you play and sending it off to Unity's server

The same way many games on Steam do and the way Steam... itself... does. It's no different than any DRM and not illegal

They're just forcing devs to bundle it in and distribute their spyware in the process while charging them to do it

[marsh loom]

god...

this sucks, I have been doing a project for a long time for nothing... godot doesn't seem that great and I can't stand unreal engine...

[subtle grotto]

Those aren't your only options y'know

[crisp ice]

I'm like 5 years or so into my dream project

[marsh loom]

🤝

I think I'll still publish it because realistically there is very very few chances it goes past 200k dl.

[crisp ice]

this seems to target FTP games mostly right?

[marsh loom]

yeah

[crisp ice]

ok good cause that's not what I'm making

I doubt it'll be super successful anyway tho

[marsh loom]

same but imagine they do a little bit of trolling and just fake increase dl and ask for a lot of money

[crisp ice]

[marsh loom]

let's just hope it's a trustworthy company

[crisp ice]

given they're talking out their ass and hiding their methods.....

[marsh loom]

and I have the fear of unity just being deleted...

[little cypress]

if i pirate a game will that still count as an install?

[bleak token]

it shouldn't but it's unity

[little cypress]

if it does then that would be considerably worse imo

[bleak token]

well that's not an opinion that's a fact

[little cypress]

because not only will you pay for legit installs, but also pirated installs too

[crisp ice]

they'll expect you the developer to detect, report, and prove the pirated install

[marsh loom]

Lol

[dark fractal]

i dont get it

what does unity now charge money for?

[grave fractal]

didn't they partner with a malware-development company last year

[subtle grotto]

Per install of your games

[dark fractal]

what does that mean

is it like

for every sale on the market?

[crisp ice]

This is probably worth a pin

[dark fractal]

oh

couldnt i just dogde that

by idk

[little cypress]

fraudulent installs

is that like

piracy

or something else

[bleak token]

yes

[little cypress]

so i can just make a game

and then pirate my game

[bleak token]

and lose money

[little cypress]

hmmmm

[bleak token]

correct probably

[little cypress]

true

[bleak token]

no this is not an infinite money dupe

[little cypress]

lol

i was thinking like, just never sell my game

but if i wanted to pirate it i guess id have to at least market it, no?

[dark fractal]

how tf does unity track that?

[bleak token]

keep in mind that all of this only takes effect if your game makes >$200k a year and has 200k "installs" (for free unity people)

[little cypress]

hmmmmmmm

market my game, pirate it, then take it off the storefront

[bleak token]

but why

[little cypress]

fraudulent installs wont be charged, right?

[bleak token]

actually the correct way to do this would be to:
get to ~$195k profit with sales
make your game free and never exceed the $200k treshold

[little cypress]

ah

what about installs

or is it just which criteria is met first?

[bleak token]

doesn't matter because the $200k treshold is never satisfied and there's and AND between the two things not an OR

[little cypress]

oh

[bleak token]

alternatively you could just do the same but with $1m and unity pro

I wonder what would happen if you were to stop having unity pro but have a game with thresholds over the free unity license

probably nothing

[little cypress]

they just send a hitman lol

[bleak token]

just would have to pay for the new installs or something

[little cypress]

this unity thing is so confusing to me😭

[bleak token]

ultimately it doesn't matter to me because I'm a godot user now babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 😎

[crisp ice]

It's per year? I thought it was like... lifetime tbh
I must've misread somewhere

[bleak token]

the money part is /12 months and the installs is lifetime

[crisp ice]

[little cypress]

clicktoaddtitle can your title be ligma

[crisp ice]

Ok but what if you duplicate your project and upload a build from that in its place, would the install counter basically reset?

[grave fractal]

y'know with this many devs switching to godot, i feel like i could try and make a tutorial for the first time, since i had transitioned from unity to godot a year ago, so i have more experience than people transitioning only now

that would be a fun thing to try

[bleak token]

yes that is literally free success as many people are in demand for tutorials right now (probably)

[crisp ice]

Absolutely there's probably a huge need for godot tutorials catered specifically toward unity devs

[lime rain]

You're insane if you didn't

[bleak token]

I would definetly try making tutorials except I'm new to godot so that won't really work that well

[grave fractal]

i'd probably need to get a friend to voice it because i've no mic...

[bleak token]

text to speech is always an option

or just text only I guess

god damn I open my news feed on my phone and the first thing that shows up is literally the unity pricing changes

[lime rain]

What sucks most is - there's no way to move 4 years of progress from Unity to Godot. Scripts, particles, animations, and all. If there was - I would buy it

Or From Unity to Game Maker, etc.

[bleak token]

you could technically just do this

if you were to actually release it

I would say that if someone has a long term project that's over 50% done should finish that game and then move to a different engine

[lime rain]

True,

I'm better off using/learning a new engine

Hopfully Godot, GMStudio and other 2D engine have the same level of quality for post processing and visual effects in the future

[little cypress]

is gmstudio free

[lime rain]

Yeah but you have to pay a monthly fee to export

Other than that your games are locked to browser experiences

[little cypress]

nooooo

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[lime rain]

I'm considering GDevelop, Godot, and a few others

It all went down hill when Brackeys left, haha

[grave fractal]

yeahhhh but production quality

[grave fractal]

Godot has an entire documentation dedicated to the Shader system, whereas most stuff is included in the already extensive base documentation, and godot 4.0 adds quite a few good 3D post processing options

[lime rain]

Really? Also this for a 2D game

[grave fractal]

the shader system works in 2D

the general post-processing for 2D is a bit limited from what i could find, but there's still bloom and color correction

but uhhh the shader system makes up for it as it's very versatile

i was able to make a vignette effect with it from scratch without any knowledge on the system

[lime rain]

Ok, thanks - I'll look into it more

[spiral latch]

Hii everyone , I am an Unity Developer and spends years working with unity ... I just want to ask is it really a good idea to ditch unity and move to another engine considering how much hours I had behind unity and learning it's whole engine ? Cuz , learning a new engine requires to go through most of the same process ... I literally want some mature advice on this ... Cheers

[grave fractal]

as someone who has switched from unity to godot last year

yeah

[bleak token]

if you already learnt an engine decently, it shouldn't be too hard to learn a new one

[grave fractal]

not only is it refreshing to start over, godot might just straight up be more comfortable for you depending on your preferences

and it's not that hard to transition from unity to godot (and im assuming this applies to transitioning to other engines too)

especially once i make the tutorial

[lime rain]

Link to your channel?

[grave fractal]

i haven't even started making the tutorial (probably will tomorrow if i don't forget), but if you want i can link my channel in dms

i haven't made any tutorials before though, i mostly post stuff i do for fun on my yt channel, like game montages and stuff like that

[lime rain]

Yes, please!

[grave fractal]

alright

[vernal mural]

Then there are some questions you should answer for yourself: Does the new policy work with your (planned) business model? Do you trust unity enough that they won't alter the deal against you in the future? Do you have the means and finances to switch to another engine? Does the new engine fulfill your requirements?

[long marten]

Alright im new to game dev, kinda. I started last year, i find Unity the cleanest experience i have had so far. I never felt overwhelmed by what i was looking at, always seemed to know exactly where things were even at the very start. I just tried Godot and i feel a sense of dread just looking at it (im not insulting it, i think it's an amazing project). I know its not the same and i know it will never be. I don't like Script-like languages, i never did. C# was clean and was a mash up between the two languages i knew the most, C++ and Java. Unity feels like a familiar face when developing. Do you guys feel like they'll take back this approach or do you think they won't take it back and fail as an engine in the end?

[little cypress]

i doubt they will tbh

but hey, ya never know

[native mesa]

i never thought i will consider switching engines and even after the overwhelming announcement, i don't think i will change engine....for now

[torn dawn]

i think godot supports c# im not sure

[native mesa]

ye it does

[torn dawn]

i was already interested in godot, if unity doesn't back this change i'll probably stay in godot, rn for me its just a reason to learn godot

[long marten]

i've been talking to some people that use Godot and as far as i know its not a fully flashed out thing and they do not recommend using it

I might try it anyway

[bleak token]

honestly gdscript is really not that hard

[torn dawn]

yeah definitely it lacks maturity but if you've been using other engines and stuff i think reading the docs / following some tutorial would be enough

[bleak token]

it's similar enough to c# that you'll be fine with it most likely

[torn dawn]

and godot is really similiar to unity, i've just started using it

[vernal mural]

yeah I hit the same issue with c# support so I'm powering through gdscript and see if it's something I can stomach in the future lol

[long marten]

the problem isnt understanding the language itself, i can read it just fine but i end up using a different approach from what is intended and some stuff really look alien to me (absolutely normal, it's a new language and i never tried to learn a script language)

as far as you guys know, can i use Visual Studio with Godot or am i stuck to the in-engine script editor?

[bleak token]

eww visual studio wtf

[torn dawn]

yeah you can

you can use pretty much any external editor i think

[long marten]

that's a starting point, thanks

[long marten]

lmao i know, VSCode is bugged af and i hate it, probably will never change it tho

[grand mural]

so, switching to godot, yes or no ?

[bleak token]

yes

[long marten]

i'd say yes for commercial projects

[vernal mural]

it depends

[bleak token]

but it's more complicated than that based on current projects

[long marten]

i think i'll keep using Unity as far as im making private projects or just testing stuff out. I wanna learn Godot in case i have an idea for a game i wanna actually try to publish

I hope Godot tutorials will bloom in the next months

[grand mural]

I wanted to start on a commercial game - a small one tho. Tower defense ish with building style of Clash of Clans (just grid based lmao) but with a few other aspects like controlling your units as in age of empires, unlock new buildings with researching.

So maybe ill give it a shot, but i need to learn godot from scratch so

will be fun , i guess? 😄

[long marten]

Well, good luck! I think i'll wait a bit before starting with Godot. I just wanna see where this situation is going to end up. If it goes bad, Godot it is. I already installed it so im just waiting on news from Unity.

[bleak token]

I'd say start getting used to the interface while waiting because why not

[long marten]

yeah, i think i'll start watching tutorials here and there. if i feel like im beginning to get somewhere, i'll def start right away

thanks everybody, wish everyone a happy rest of the day

[subtle grotto]

https://www.engadget.com/unity-temporarily-closes-offices-amid-threats-following-contentious-pricing-changes-163533875.html

[bleak token]

ayo what

[graceful ravine]

wholesome games community

si gh

[bleak token]

isn't it great that the godot community is so good

[grand mural]

why wouldnt they reverse it a year later... you never know now. Maybe just take the safe bet and get used to godot. Got used to Unity for a while now so that kinda sucks 😦

have to start over

[grand mural]

dang

[long marten]

That’s actually insane behaviour

[long marten]

Yeah same, i feel like i can do anything i want with Unity and just as i start feeling like making an actual big project this happens

[grand mural]

EXACTLY lol

i think its a bad idea to take that idea to godot...

since i have 0 idea about godot

maybe the classic 2D platformer tutorial it is lmao

[long marten]

Yeah ahah

[bleak token]

same but I'm already making my own player movement

[grand mural]

just to learn the basics

[bleak token]

and it's just working somehow

[grand mural]

i wanna keep using C# tho, since i am also C# developer as a job. don';t wanna mix the weird languages

[native mesa]

godot supports c

[long marten]

Good job! I was watching a tutorial but the guide made some weird checks for the movement

[bleak token]

that is already gone for me since I have to learn python, java, html, css, javascript all at once in school

[grand mural]

lmao

i got C# for backend, and JAVA / HTML for Frondend (fullstack dev)

[long marten]

If unity had another language I probably would have never started making games. C# felt like C++ with everything i wanted from Java and it feels amazing to use

[bleak token]

the only thing for now that I don't like about gdscript is having to var everything

also this looks cursed af

[grand mural]

You don't have to if i am correct?

[long marten]

gdscript has keywords and classes i know and understand, until we get to actually making something

[grand mural]

rainbow

[dark fractal]

🤩 😊 🥰

[balmy osprey]

just use the mono version with c#

make ez

[hollow sage]

The decision sparked an astonishing backlash against Unity [...]
"astonishing"

[balmy osprey]

predictable would have been a more accurate term

on top of taking a flat out premium of your revenue they want money for each install

[grand mural]

this looks kinda dope tho
https://www.udemy.com/course/godot-4-create-3d-rts-style-game/?kw=Godot+3D&src=sac

[native mesa]

they care about the safety of their employes but not the voice of the community ??

this is bullshit

[queen lagoon]

employees are humans too

[crisp ice]

It's not the employees' fault, it's the EA guy's fault

[queen lagoon]

ye

[crisp ice]

[queen lagoon]

also sending death threats isn't really gonna solve the problem

[native mesa]

ik

[native mesa]

so what are we then ?

[queen lagoon]

consumers

[native mesa]

fking idiots ??

its unity's fault, and they should fix it

[queen lagoon]

yes, well they've back pedaled a little bit

I'm unsure if they'll fully reverse the decision though

[grand mural]

ive watched an Asmongold vid about he commenting on a video of gamedev on the unity scandal

and he made a good point

small indie devs prob won't reach the 200k mark, but they dream about it right. Now with this you take away the dream since if they reach it, it will just cost them a lot of money

[queen lagoon]

yea you turn that dream into a nightmare

[native mesa]

no

[queen lagoon]

3 stepsons?

[grand mural]

xd

[crisp ice]

Can they get sued by big developers for changing the contract on them?

[native mesa]

i was about to say, they made 3 steps ahead, 2 steps back, still same issue

[native mesa]

probably

[grand mural]

in america you can get sued for anything

[kind arch]

yes. a class action is already in the works

[crisp ice]

[native mesa]

im not american

[grand mural]

me neither

😄

but unity is

[native mesa]

lol

[queen lagoon]

actually, unity originates from denmark

but yeah, their hq is in the us

[ancient kernel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB90Cse3aaM

a quick (and non-reactionary) overview

[pallid lantern]

Goodbye Uniy, Hello Godot

[south sparrow]

not sure if i should go with ue5 or godot

[bleak token]

think about what you want to make, if you want high fidelity 3d graphics go with ue5
if you want a more stylized look for 3d or just 2d in general go with godot

[south sparrow]

ill give both a shot

[native mesa]

UE5 has some good updates

especially UE5.2

[south sparrow]

yea saw some stuff

i dont really like blueprints in ue and im too lazy to learn cpp

godot is quite confusing imo

[native mesa]

stick with unity and hope they change the TOS

hopefully

[south sparrow]

i dont really see that comming

might use that time to take a break from gamedev

[native mesa]

they are doing something u know

[native mesa]

i aint

i love game dev

[south sparrow]

same

[native mesa]

but this makes me angry ngl

[south sparrow]

frfr

[bleak token]

actually a viable strategy

start learning game design, writing, art, music whatever other parts of gamedev that's not part of actually coding a game

anyways gotta go sleep now gn

[south sparrow]

gn

honestly even if they reverted these changes noone would trust them anymore

as soon as someone sees the 'made with unity' bs they would unistall the game

[radiant geyser]

I'm back to say that I am impressed with godot. The prototyping speeds I find much faster than Unity and wow I got into it quickly and was able to pick it up as well. Getting things running are faster and no compile times that keep breaking my flow

[pulsar goblet]

source: theguardian.com

[lime rain]

Just to clarify - as long as my demo DOESN'T allow the user to buy the full game from inside the build, I'm good right?

[lime rain]

I'm REALLY considering doing this

Only concern is, at ANY point in the future - Unity COULD remove the "AND" part and just say sales or profit count

But I'm really considering it

The other problem is, I would have also screwed over 1000s of players by making it free afterwards

[molten tree]

You don't even need to make the game free. You could just temporarily delist it for some arbitrary reason until the next fiscal year

That way the 200k counter resets

[subtle grotto]

https://twitter.com/notch/status/1702136196145529127

notch (@notch)

I made my own engine for Minecraft.

Implementing the rest of the game is a much bigger time investment than making the engine.

There is no middleware for innovation.

Likes

10460

Retweets

354

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 1:44 AM

[molten tree]

Thanks, Notch, very cool

[kind arch]

lmao i didnt know notch was still alive

[subtle grotto]

https://twitter.com/HakJakGames/status/1702180236585226314

HakJak (@HakJakGames)

@unity @unity if you can detect pirate installs, then why is so much of the Asset Store pirated?

Likes

132

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 4:39 AM

[grave fractal]

I'm making one specifically for transitioning from unity to godot

[ancient kernel]

Yes.

[ancient kernel]

https://twitter.com/tkexpress11/status/1702054746411221386

Troy Kirwin (@tkexpress11)

I worked on an early, very different iteration of the @unity pricing changes ~1 yr ago

My thoughts:

1. Unity strategically had no choice but to make changes
2. Devs are upset, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems
3. Unity's comms & implementation wasn't great

More below 👇

Likes

423

Twitter · Sep 13, 2023, 8:20 PM

an interesting thread with information regarding the reasoning behind Unity's decisions

[eager hornet]

so what do I do in this situation I am starting my adventure into game design and I had just finished some of my movement stuff in unity is there any chance of them backing off or am I jsut gonna have to migrate to godot

[grave fractal]

Even if they back off, I don't think you should support them

[eager hornet]

I'm just lost on this, like how close is godot to unity

[grave fractal]

pretty easy to transition from unity to godot

[steep knoll]

Unity have a very versatile customer pipeline... no one is want to lost their customer think that way..

[grave fractal]

Took me about a week to transition

[eager hornet]

how easy would it be for just a bean, the floor, 2 boxes, and my movement scripts to be ported?

[glad narwhal]

So you say no one is gonna play Gensin Impact or Rust ever again?

[eager hornet]

Rust seems cool but ultimately the good ending haha

[south sparrow]

nah but who tf trusts unity now

[glad narwhal]

Well, that' s true that their trustworthiness is to the ground now... But the problem is with the team behind the engine not the engine itself

[grave fractal]

Very easy

[south sparrow]

depends

[long marten]

Nice

Please make a thread when it’s out, would help lots of people

[grave fractal]

Sure!

[radiant geyser]

I want to say, after 2 days of using Godot I am genuinely impressed. The developer experience is phenomenal! The engine has so many useful features such as signals on certain objects which let you link to other scripts so that you listen for certain events. Or the rapid development that you achieve from using it. I am stuck with using GDScript because I need mobile export but after 2 days I know GDScript pretty well it's super easy to pickup and it's impressive with how well it works. I regret not swapping earlier 😳

[coarse ginkgo]

a guy called lilmik made this

just for people saying its way too much money

everything in the installs 190k you dont actually lose money other than the like 2k a year for buying unity pro

now you guys only need to worry about the ethics of it not the money you dont really lose if you use unity pro

well maybe a little money but not as much as like unreal or something

[native mesa]

https://twitter.com/MrGemezl/status/1702229295035277535

Gemezl (@MrGemezl)

Just make the player pay for the install fee.

Problem solved 😎

Likes

931

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 7:54 AM

no comments

problem solved lol

[south sparrow]

thought the same thing

[coarse ginkgo]

install bombing is the easiest thing to fix anyway

its 100% unique users i would believe

but pirating wont be fixed

[bleak token]

I have an easy fix, just remove the install criteria 👍

[royal flicker]

No steam fee or tax?

[marsh loom]

No, that comes after but that is the same with unreal on steam

[toxic wasp]

it will make everything even more worse

[grand mural]

But i just had a great game idea, should i just go with that to make my first Godot game and get used to everything? or just try an easy platformer tutorial or something first?

what do you guys recommend.

[bleak token]

I'm already making my long term project even tho I just started yesterday lmfao

[subtle grotto]

Impossible to detect

[lime rain]

Thanks!

[ancient kernel]

I've seen this chart on twitter
the numbers in the "Total Installs Charged" columns don't align with the "Installs" column. It's unclear where these numbers are coming from, so this chart appears to be in error

[grave fractal]

possible if they use spyware
which they do

[subtle grotto]

We don't know that for sure ||but there is a non-zero chance this is true||

[grave fractal]

i saw different sources say they do but i wouldn't be able to find those now so i can't really prove it

[subtle grotto]

They did partner with a spyware company, and that company was hired into the board of Unity

It's definitely sus

Nothing has been found yet to prove that installs are tracked with spyware buuuut... it's not out of the question

[glossy current]

hey guys, it might sound a stupid question, but how does unity know how much did i earn from my games?

for example i have a free game that has ads with admob in it

how can unity know my earnings

[subtle grotto]

You report your earnings

[grave fractal]

you mean ironSource?

[subtle grotto]

If you don't you are breaking contract law

[subtle grotto]

Yep

[grave fractal]

i thought it was just malware, not specifically spyware

[glossy current]

where?

[subtle grotto]

It was something

[grave fractal]

though iw ouldn't be surprised if it was spyware too

[glossy current]

i'm 18 i dont even know how all this works, i just signed on unity and made my game

where do i tell them my earnings

[subtle grotto]

It's on you to purchase the relevant license

[grave fractal]

question, if i'd were to make a post/thread asking people who're switching from unity to godot about what they're struggling with the most (for the purposes of covering those in a tutorial), where would i do so (the unity forum, the godot forum, elsewhere)?

[subtle grotto]

If you earn over a certain amount and Unity's personal license no longer applies to you, you're responsible for buying a new license for all future games

[glossy current]

yea but what about the new fee

how do they know your earnings

[grave fractal]

spyware, most probably

oh wait, earnings not installs

[glossy current]

yes

[grave fractal]

i misread, my bad

[subtle grotto]

You have to make that call

You use the license that is relevant for you

And if you don't you are at risk of being sued

[glossy current]

what are the licenses thresholds?

[subtle grotto]

The current ones or the new ones?

[glossy current]

oh they changed?

new ones

[grave fractal]

i believe it is $200k and 200k downloads for all licenses (the new runtime fee)

[subtle grotto]

They're changing on jan 1st

[glossy current]

so there will be two licenses ?

[grave fractal]

i think its three licenses?

[subtle grotto]

The new thresholds: https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

[grave fractal]

personal, pro, and corporate or someting like that

[glossy current]

ok thank you

[subtle grotto]

• Unity Personal and Unity Plus: Those that have made $200,000 USD or more in the last 12 months AND have at least 200,000 lifetime game installs.
• Unity Pro and Unity Enterprise: Those that have made $1,000,000 USD or more in the last 12 months AND have at least 1,000,000 lifetime game installs.

[grave fractal]

"our change is targeted at larger companies"
the change:

[subtle grotto]

That's how the runtime fee is decided

[grave fractal]

there are still a lot of large companies that make over a million USD per year but still why not have all licenses have the 1 million threshold

[subtle grotto]

Oh here you go @glossy current

[grave fractal]

cuz wouldn't it always be cheaper to buy the pro/enterprise license instead of paying 20 cents for those 800 thousand extra installs

[glossy current]

thanks, one last question, does the threeshold apply to every game one by one or to the sum of the game's installs and revvenues

[subtle grotto]

https://unity.com/pricing#plans-student-and-hobbyist

You can continue to use the Personal license if this applies to you:

[glossy current]

and if it is the sum

[grave fractal]

every game is separate

[glossy current]

what blocks me from creating new accounts

[glossy current]

ok makes sense

[subtle grotto]

If you earn more than this, you have to pay for the Pro license

[glossy current]

thank you

[subtle grotto]

Runtime fee is a separate bill

[grave fractal]

now that that's been answered, do you know where i can do this? since you're a moderator @subtle grotto

[subtle grotto]

That is a very good question

[grave fractal]

im assuming the godot thread? since people who are already switching from unity will be looking for help there

[subtle grotto]

I would say #1007228932115931197 - because then it's not tied to any specific engine chat

Oh wait

switching to godot?

[grave fractal]

yes

[subtle grotto]

Right gotcha, then yeah #1006696053879349290

[grave fractal]

from unity specifically, seeing what people have trouble with during the transition

alright thank you!

[grand mural]

does Godot have fees?

[subtle grotto]

It's FOSS so no

They rely on community donations

[tired oracle]

nah they removing those

[bright zealot]

yeah, you just have to let them bankrupt you if you reach success with an f2p game is all

no more income limit, just a choice between having a loaded gun or a knife pointed at you

[bright zealot]

I'm sorry WHAT THE FUCK

I did not realize they were doing

ONLINE ONLY DRM

for the ENGINE ITSELF unless you pay for Pro

I dont have very stable internet here in saskatchewan, fuck this

[tired oracle]

honestly this change isnt as bad as i initially thought it would be,
sure a little more clarity would be nice and perhabs unity getting feedback from the community but still not that bad

cuz if you think about it, if you make 200k a year (which is unlikely) you can just upgrade to unity pro and not pay anything until you hit the 1M $ at which point you start paying like 0.075$ per NEW install (meaning the first 1M installs dont count) which isnt that much money considering you just made a milion dollars
and if you are that annoyed, at that point you might as well just take the game down from the store since reinstalling doesnt count

The only real problem i see is with mobile and F2P games as they will be hit the hardest as not every customer is a paying one
I will still switch engine if the CEO is not changed in like 2/3 years

[bright zealot]

yeah, F2P games are the ones that this will bankrupt, everyone else this is just basically an aggressive revshare

CEO has proven himself an untrustworthy piece of shit and the company itself, no rational company wants to keep them as their single point of failure so it makes sense to switch regardless - they just obliterated the Unity job market in the future among other things

[tired oracle]

technically still a better deal then Unreal since they take a flat 5% of whatever you make after 1M $

[bright zealot]

???

In the context of F2P no it isn't

[tired oracle]

yeah in the context of F2P not
in the normal paid one i ment its better

[bright zealot]

Most major successful Unity games AFAIK are mobile f2p, that's their target audience, its why the CEO said any dev who isnt just making entirely money focused mobile games is a "fucking idiot"

so either the CEO thinks you're a fucking idiot for being his customer, or he wants to rob you lol depending on your business model

[tired oracle]

well i kinda gotta agree with him, if you want to make money you gotta monitize your game

[bright zealot]

?

That's not what he said though at all

[tired oracle]

also im not sure if most Unity games Free Mobile Game, altough i dont have any info to back it

[bright zealot]

It's if your priority isn't monetization it's "fucking idiot"

like if your game is anything other than a cash grab

[tired oracle]

ah then yeah fair, he shouldnt have said that

[bright zealot]

yeah, but whether he SHOULD have said it, that's his mentality as CEO and leader since he DID say it

that's who he is, that's why he said it, and that's who is calling the shot

if i call someone an idiot then say "oh sorry i shouldnt have said that" it means i still think they're an idiot

[tired oracle]

i mean yeah i said i will switch after like 2/3 years
if CEO is the same

[bright zealot]

fair, i'm not directly trying to convince you to switch like i have some other motive, i just think its good to be clear on this and not rationalize and soften it after a few days when the information and facts haven't actually changed

everyone, myself, people in general have a tendency to reduce the severity of things in memory esp when it comes to things they already have an attachment to to rationalize

Switching in 2/3 years is logical

[tired oracle]

i fully agree that this was a bad move by unity and it should be reverted
I would be fully ok with something like 5% after 200k (or 1M if Unity Pro) cuz i can track that

[tired oracle]

id think about doing it now if it wasnt for the fact that im already doing a project started a long time ago

[marsh loom]

Yeah, I mean, I just think they did not communicated about f2b mobile game for now but they will, it's just not possible to apply the same thing for them. They will find a way to not consider those type of games in the fee system

[marsh loom]

Same

[ancient kernel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16j6cip/ironsource_is_the_reason/

it appears that getting f2p mobile companies to sign up to IronSource is their solution to accomodate the fee system for those types of games

[grave fractal]

what if i want to make art?

what if im not a soulless business man abusing the industry for monetary gain?

what if i only want to make a living off of game making, but not be a greedy company?

[ancient kernel]

then make art

go for it

[grave fractal]

according to the CEO of Unity, you're a "fucking idiot" if you are like this

which is absolutely wrong

[ancient kernel]

why would you care so much what one person you don't even know says?

[grave fractal]

not even subjectively or anything

[bleak token]

so true

my advice is to make games for yourself, not for others

[grave fractal]

cuz he's a bad person and i get to complain about it

[ancient kernel]

the world is full of assholes

you can't shouldn't fret about everything that they say and allow it to affect what you do with your life

[marsh loom]

Ooh I see, and what about f2b with microtransaction, does they have to use ironsource ?

[grave fractal]

it's not affecting my life, i've already switched to godot a year ago, but it's still stupid

what makes me mad isn't that he's an idiot

its that some people agree with him

despite him being an idiot

[marsh loom]

That's life...

[ancient kernel]

I don't belive it's "have to use", there's no requirement. But if these reports are true, then Unity will be lowering or waiving the install fees for these kinds of free-to-play games, as a reward for paying for IronSource and other Unity services

since Unity makes most of its money off of ad services, not engine licenses

This doesn't seem to solve the problem for free-to-play PC and Console games, though. Since who wants ads in those?

[marsh loom]

Yeah I see

And IronSource takes how many % of money made from adds ?

[bright zealot]

because he calls the shots for the tool @grave fractal uses to create

the tool that i assume he wants a job in eventually

[bright zealot]

If they use ironsource they pay a (reduced) fee last i checked, idk if it has changed
so sign up for malware company's network to get fucked slightly less hard

[grave fractal]

nah i had switched to godot back when he called most game devs "fucking idiots"

[bright zealot]

well, then at the time

[grave fractal]

but still

his statements directly oppose my ideals

[bright zealot]

yeah, at the time he called the shots for your tool of choice for expressing your art form and eventually probably career at the time, of course its logical not to anchor yourself to such a greedy person who is willing to betray the users continuously

[grave fractal]

yep

[bright zealot]

especially now that its proven they're even worse

and make no mistake they oust him and not MUCH will change probably as the new guy will have the same legal responsibility to maximize shareholder value through profit, but at least they might be more ethical about how they approach it

i'm moving from Unreal to a custom fork of Godot right now myself, because even tho Epic has proven to be more trustworthy, this is a lesson to all of us that nailing yourself to one greedy corporation is a bad idea - Epic hits hard times in a few years and they won't hesitate to do the same shit

[grave fractal]

i have mixed feelings about unreal

godot though? peak engine

[bright zealot]

unreal and godot work for squarely different games, which is fine

[grave fractal]

yeah

each day though, godot is getting closer and closer to being better than unreal in both 2D and 3D, small projects or big

[bright zealot]

godot doesnt need to be AAA open world competitive right now to capture the indies and unreal doesn't need to be as indie competitive right now to keep bringing in the AAA bucks (altho the user experience has gotten better, its still too hefty for most indie projects)

[bright zealot]

ehh

their SDFGI solution was funded by Epic

[grave fractal]

oh that's neat

[bright zealot]

who then used their R&D to make Lumen

[grave fractal]

friendly competition

[bright zealot]

so Epic keeps Godot at a comfortable distance and helps to take out their main competitor, Unity, while also giving them only enough help to not compete with Unreal in the AAA market

[grave fractal]

that's actually so cool lol

that they cooperate i mean

[bleak token]

SDFGI is so sick too bad unity didn't have anything similar

[bright zealot]

they also contribute to O3DE as well, but i suspect that'll slow down as O3DE is more directly going for Unreal's throat in the way Godot is going for Unity's throat

so i suspect the opensource contributions will continue but they wont give them massive funding like they gave Godot

[vivid creek]

https://twitter.com/tkexpress11/status/1702054746411221386
everyone should read this

Troy Kirwin (@tkexpress11)

I worked on an early, very different iteration of the @unity pricing changes ~1 yr ago

My thoughts:

1. Unity strategically had no choice but to make changes
2. Devs are upset, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems
3. Unity's comms & implementation wasn't great

More below 👇

Likes

573

Retweets

142

Twitter · Sep 13, 2023, 8:20 PM

[ancient kernel]

I posted this already 😄

[vivid creek]

oh, my bad lol

[bright zealot]

yeah, i get that they're going broke slowly and have no other strategic options, they shouldn't dig themselves such a deep pit before their only choice is to do extremely unethical things like delete the version history of their TOS and sneak changes in

and also, they could've done this in a far more ethical way across the board, by not doing that

so this thread doesn't make it better, it just lists the things we already all knew?

[tired oracle]

I dont think you read my message, i said if you WANT to make money of off your mobile game, it would be stupid to not think about it from the very beggining, as desinging a monetization system after everything is done is harder then doing it alongside everything

Please read more carefully next time before you judge someone <3

[grave fractal]

i get that you said if you want to make money, but what if you don't? what im saying is, the statement the CEO made does not account for that

i wasn't trying to judge you

[tired oracle]

And after that message, someone explained to me what he ment, after which i said he shouldnt have said that

[tired oracle]

and if you dont care about the money, do games for free, without any monitization
thats fine

[ancient kernel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRpM_meNzRg

[tired oracle]

imma watch it in a bit, im not giving up on unity just yet
but 2/3 years from now unless they change their buinsess (aka get in touch with their user base)
i will propably switch

[ancient kernel]

Finished watching this. Based Rick.

[marsh loom]

I am happy to see that I am not the only one who really wants to stick with unity

[subtle grotto]

I think everyone wants to stick with unity, but this decision has made it incredibly difficult to do so

[quasi raptor]

time to trust a company who will probably make more shitty decisions

[grave fractal]

yeah i dont doubt unreal engine will eventually fall into the same hole unity did, since their target audience are AAA companies

[bleak token]

I can just switch easily because my long term project didn't have a lot of things done (ty 1.5 years of procrastination and resets)

[quasi raptor]

AAAA CAPITALISM

[bleak token]

I don't like what unity's doing, and godot doesn't really put me in a disadvantage in using it (yet)

[grave fractal]

so true, this is kinda why i switched to godot a year ago, though me losing majority of the files from my project due to me importing it to google drive from a crummy old laptop and it not ending well (corrupted the majority of my files) was also a factor

[grave fractal]

so true

[bleak token]

also did you guys know that godot is so funny that you can legit run it on a raspberry pi 4

[ancient kernel]

I am happy to see that I am not the only one researching the facts and thinking clearly and not just emotionally 😅

[quasi raptor]

unity

[subtle grotto]

I don't know how you can possibly defend this

[ancient kernel]

https://twitter.com/operagxofficial/status/1702344849855270917

Opera GX (@operagxofficial)

Here's some free GameMaker access until the end of the year in case you wanna ditch this shit

https://t.co/ZoNJwmjz7e

Likes

1909

Twitter · Sep 14, 2023, 3:33 PM

lol

[bleak token]

[grave fractal]

awesome

[quasi raptor]

what’s a decent like c# game framework

[little cypress]

i like how its called X and yet the web address and embed still says twitter lmao

[grave fractal]

i mean... i dont think its good marketing if your site is called "x.com"

[little cypress]

t r u e

[marsh loom]

I just think that if real shit appends and if my game is that successfull (I highly doupt that) I will just turn my game free so everyone could play it.

[quasi raptor]

fair

[vernal mural]

back in the day there was XNA, but that's history these days

[subtle grotto]

There still is XNA

It's called MonoGame now https://www.monogame.net/

[quasi raptor]

monogame is looking pretty tasty but i wanted to know if there were any other alternatives

[subtle grotto]

There's also FNA, a separate fork of XNA https://fna-xna.github.io/

[quasi raptor]

i’ll check it out thanks

[vernal mural]

it was pretty decent for learning some of the underwater stuff of game engines since you have to write most of it yourself

[marsh loom]

I love unity so I just want to enjoy it, I tried a few times unreal, and I hate it. Godot seems cool but underdeveloped for now (for what I want to do). I just want unity to keep the engine alive.

[vernal mural]

had to write my own 3D code and shaders etc, good times

[quasi raptor]

considering a ton of people are gonna drop support for unity, i don’t have faith in the company lasting for a lot longer

[marsh loom]

Even if the company goes down and they stop developping new version of engine, do you think I would still be able to use the older versions ?

[quasi raptor]

i mean you can

probably

[vernal mural]

depends on how much they mess up the always online requirement for unity hub

[quasi raptor]

oh right that’s a thing

fuck that shit

[marsh loom]

Ah

Can you develop ?

[bleak token]

you don't need that you can just open the unity editor itself from the shortcut it creates when installed

[vernal mural]

right now you can

but after the changes

who knows

[bleak token]

or open a scene from a project in explorer

[quasi raptor]

just don’t update

[marsh loom]

Right

And would they be able to charge you if you publish a game on thier old version if they were to go down ?

It doesn't seems feasible

[quasi raptor]

idk if that’s even legal

[vernal mural]

that depends on if they have the licence changes apply to already existing agreements

[quasi raptor]

although i haven’t read unity tos so like i’m not an expert

[marsh loom]

Yeah that's what I was thinking about

[marsh loom]

But then existing games like escape from tarkov wont be able to update their game

[vernal mural]

yup

[grave fractal]

they removed it from the github to make silent changes

[marsh loom]

That seems difficult to apply

[grave fractal]

or at least, to allegedly make silent changes

[subtle grotto]

They say it will, but that would be illegal

[vernal mural]

that's what we'll find out in the near future

[quasi raptor]

doesn’t that mean that the new changes can’t apply retroactively

[subtle grotto]

Legally, no they can't

[quasi raptor]

oh damm so games can actually exist

[grave fractal]

that's what i was thinking

[subtle grotto]

You can't just randomly decide to change the terms of a contract and force those new terms onto people without them agreeing to it

Several studios are already filing a class action lawsuit

[grave fractal]

nice!

[marsh loom]

But then they wont be able to block every game (as there is so many unity games)

[subtle grotto]

Honestly I want unity to be fucking sued into oblivion

[grave fractal]

i dont know much about the legal stuff yet, so i wasn't sure if retroactively changing this stuff is legal at all

[subtle grotto]

Yeah, it's not, not one bit

[quasi raptor]

so they literally can’t do anything

[marsh loom]

How can they be sued if they did not do it (for now)?

[subtle grotto]

In fact their old terms of service stated that if they ever change the terms of their agreement in future, you have the right to refuse updating your editor version - and keep to the terms of the old license.
They silently removed that wording from the new license

[grave fractal]

"nooo dont sue us we can't pay our shareholders :((( we only broke the law so that we can pay to our poor poor stock owners!!"

[marsh loom]

I saw a screen if it on twitter, do you have it ?

I mean, it could be useful 🤣

[subtle grotto]

Unity may update these Unity Software Additional Terms at any time for any reason and without notice (the “Updated Terms”) and those Updated Terms will apply to the most recent current-year version of the Unity Software [...] The Updated Terms will then not apply to your use of those current-year versions unless and until you update to a subsequent year version of the Unity Software
https://unity.com/legal/terms-of-service/software-legacy

This is the agreement that all devs agreed to for already-released games

They cannot retroactively impose new terms like this

[little cypress]

bois we rolling back to older unity

[little cypress]

ryan gosling 😍

[vernal mural]

depending on when they changed that, people may have already accepted the newer ToS where they can make changes like this

[marsh loom]

I have the 2021 vers, do you think it can apply ?

[subtle grotto]

It doesn't even matter if it's in the contract or not

[marsh loom]

Litterally me

[little cypress]

fr hes literally me

[subtle grotto]

It is blatantly illegal to force new terms onto past devs, without them agreeing to it

It's like if I wrote a contract saying "You clean my house, I'll give you $10". You sign it, and you clean my house. Then I change the contract to say "You clean my house for free", that's not legally binding

You didn't sign it, you didn't agree to it

[marsh loom]

Yeah that's kind of cheeky

[little cypress]

ngl sounds like something a child would do

[quasi raptor]

yeah that’s the problem

[little cypress]

''oh i never promised''

[marsh loom]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[quasi raptor]

most people won’t be affected but like the fact they want to retroactively change a contract is scary

[vernal mural]

yeah so they will probably not force it in that way, but use a more roundabout way such as "if you want to continue using unity and its editor, agree to these new terms or leave". And then it all depends on whether the agreement you had in place prevents them from doing that (e.g. the clause that they removed)

which in effect means you can't update your games without accepting the new terms and financial bs

[native mesa]

ok maybe this new update isnt THAAT bad you know, unless for, how the frick they check for installs, and WHY, would have to stay connected to use unity, i last month i made a game with no interent, and now i cant, wtf, im thinking, if i ever hit 200k in installs and revenue, i'll switch to unity pro

godot users are taking this oppurtunity to promote their engine ngl

[bright zealot]

They deleted their TOS version history off Git and then inserted clauses to make the changers retroactive.
They already have altered the deal with no consent or knowledge

[native mesa]

dont get me wrong godot is great, but unity is way better

[subtle grotto]

That is one of the biggest concerns that people have. Unity are refusing to give any details about how their "proprietary data model" actually detects installs, and how they are going to detect fraudulent install bombing. Considering Unity's history, it is not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that they're doing illegal shit to detect users

[marsh loom]

What do you mean you have to stay connected ?

[bright zealot]

My concern is as someone with a background in information security that it's functionally impossible to differentiate hardened VMs with residential proxies from real users

[subtle grotto]

Precisely

[bright zealot]

They cannot succeed in that goal, it's a multi billion dollar question every trillion dollar social media giant, DRM company and cloud security provider has been trying to solve for a decade

[subtle grotto]

And yet all Unity are responding with is "trust us bro". They are just saying "we'll figure it out"

When it is literally impossible to figure that out unless you are collecting personally identifiable information about every user to detect such installs

[tired oracle]

I agree with this, it has good points

[subtle grotto]

So either they are lying through their teeth, or breaking privacy laws, and either option is disgusting

[native mesa]

yep, u have to stay connected to interent to use unity editor

[bright zealot]

They're adding always online DRM to the editor so you can't use it offline so they can track usage. Sucks with my Saskatchewan internet hahaha

[hollow sage]

Now it's "we'll figure it out", next they're gonna pull a Todd Howard and say "it just works"

[quick goblet]

i was reading the news and i started crying

[little cypress]

rip

[quick goblet]

will une UE from now on

[native mesa]

UE is more expensive

if u reach 1M $

[subtle grotto]

Research your options

UE isn't the only other engine on the market

[bright zealot]

Only if you make over 1 million dollars, and only for the dollars over the first million
Unity's solution is cheaper for AAA games, more expensive for anything else

[marsh loom]

I just tested and I dont

[native mesa]

i probably wont reach the 200k$, but if i did 🤑 i will switch to unity pro

[quick goblet]

i know but i want to make vr games and UE is the only other reasonable option

[bright zealot]

It's only cheaper for AAA. If you make 1 million and 1 dollars in Unreal, you pay 5 cents total

[marsh loom]

Same

[tired oracle]

• you need to be conected to internet once every 3 days, the internet connection is propably for those who just wont pay the fees so that their access is taken away
• I agree they should be more transparent on how they check for installs
• If you make 200k (which is a big if for all of us) then just buy Unity Pro, which is the point unity wants a bit of money you make, which is fair since they never had revenue share

[native mesa]

not for now

[bright zealot]

The change that adds this is coming at the same time as the new license changes lmfao. They obviously did not sneakily alter the version on your hard drive with no update

[subtle grotto]

That's fair. But again Unreal isn't the only option here. Quite a few engines offer VR support, Godot recently announced such support too

[tired oracle]

do you think, after making a milion dolars you will care about a couple of cents ?

[subtle grotto]

I'm not trying to dissuade you from Unreal if you're set on it, then go for it

But just know it's not the only choice

[marsh loom]

Okay lmao

[native mesa]

@marsh loom read this

[bleak token]

I would

[quick goblet]

wow godot is changing fast...

[bright zealot]

The point I'm making is that Unreal is basically cents, Unity you're paying 2000 USD per year per developer for pro plus the (reduced) install fee

[native mesa]

imagine if they did

[subtle grotto]

https://godotengine.org/article/godot-xr-update-sep-2023/

[marsh loom]

Thanks

[bleak token]

thanks godot, very cool

[tired oracle]

Unreal costs more money if you make a million dollars ? (assuming game aint free)

[native mesa]

i wouldnt update unity nor connect to internet so it doesnt get updated 😎

[native mesa]

yep

[subtle grotto]

It does not cost more money

The first million is royalty free

[marsh loom]

Same (do you think this will work lmao)

[subtle grotto]

If you earn $1,000,001, you only pay royalties on the $1 over the million. Which means you pay 5 cents (5% of $1)

[native mesa]

how they will update it when u arent connected to internet lol

[tired oracle]

i am aware, still

[bright zealot]

It's only 5% on the money OVER a million, so it depends. If I have 10 devs even just working on our spare time then Unity Pro costs me $20,000 per year plus (reduced) install fees. Unreal still costs 5% over a million. Use your brain and do the math. If you make 2 million, you pay 50k to epic no matter how many devs and users you have

[tired oracle]

after a million dollars Unreal takes 5% while Unity takes 0.075$ per install

[marsh loom]

Real lmao, but I was thinking about, if you don't do the updates of unity hub, they will not be able to change this

[bright zealot]

You're forgetting you pay 2000 per year per developer in your company with that license. So no, that's not true. For every developer I add I would need to make 40,000 (2000 / 0.05) extra U.S. dollars for Unreal to cost more than that. Do you even math or finances dude?

[marsh loom]

Right?

[native mesa]

.20cent with free licence

[bleak token]

ah yes 0.2 cents

[native mesa]

my typing bru

[subtle grotto]

it's 0.20 dollars, 20 cents

[native mesa]

ma bad

im not american u know

[subtle grotto]

Neither am I

[bleak token]

if it was 0.2 cents we probably wouldn't have this conversation lmao

[native mesa]

if i get 199999 installs, i'll switch to unity pro

[native mesa]

lol, why not

[grave fractal]

i mean, we still would, no matter how low the cost is, it's a terrible business model and breaking the little trust users have for unity

[quasi raptor]

they're still changing a contract after signing it

[eager hornet]

So if I don’t have a budget am I good?

[bleak token]

ok whatever I got ratioed

[quasi raptor]

lmao

[native mesa]

well, if they did make the community know about ut first, and make them choose idk, probably do something about it

[subtle grotto]

Revenue isn't just from game sales, it's also from ads and in-app purchases. It's the revenue your company makes as a whole

[native mesa]

donations ?

[subtle grotto]

Unclear if donations count

[grave fractal]

1. usage of spyware (allegedly, you can not count this point if you'd like)
2. retroactive changing of agreements
3. no transparency on how well their spyware works

[quick goblet]

hope not

[native mesa]

same lol

[subtle grotto]

Well

Considering the page says "funding"

That would mean donations count towards it yes

[bleak token]

well that's fucking stupid

[tired oracle]

I do, more likely then not, Unity is Cheaper,
Big Companies can afford that expecting a big return (wheter they get said return depends on their game)
Small studios (2 - 20 ppl) Could Use Unity Personal only upgrading after 200k cap (And Same with Solo Developers)

[quick goblet]

well f***k unity

[eager hornet]

Oh. So no matter what if I sell my game at a price, they get a slice of the pie?

[native mesa]

what if i have another "company" that only takes donos ??

[subtle grotto]

If you earn over the threshold yes

[native mesa]

over the threshhold , YES

[tired oracle]

if you make 200k, spending 2k is no big deal

[quick goblet]

its low treashold

[native mesa]

well spending 750$ is better u know

[bleak token]

made doesn't mean you will continue to make that amount

[native mesa]

• pro license price

[tired oracle]

you need to make 200k $ and 200k installs (for Unity Personal), regardless of price of your game

[tired oracle]

wait is pro license only 750 now ?

[native mesa]

noo

[quasi raptor]

it's also in revenue not profit

[native mesa]

i mean like the 0.075$ fee

[eager hornet]

Man this is some leech stuff here lmao, thank you for everyone trying to clarify

[native mesa]

pro license is 2000$/year

[tired oracle]

steam takes 30%, meaning you are left with 140$k, 2k still inst that much considering you made 140k in a year, and you can expect to make more of of it

[native mesa]

ye if life was fine, what about pirated games, multiple installs from same person ??

[grave fractal]

^ exactly! there are still taxes and depending on the platform you're publishing on there could be a percentage you have to share with like steam or epic games or wherever you publish, if another company is publishing your game they probably also get a percentage of the revenue, if you're working in a team a lot of the money has to go towards each member.

[tired oracle]

alr i will go of what unity said, i cant say if its possible or no but,
neither pirated games nor reinstalls are supposed to count

[quasi raptor]

they cant track that

[bleak token]

steam takes 30% plus there's the additional % you may get taken by your country btw (for hungary it would be an additional 27% in theory)

[subtle grotto]

Except there's no way to possibly detect this

[native mesa]

ok, so how they tracking installs ?

[tired oracle]

Jesus

[native mesa]

lol

[grave fractal]

illegal spyware

[native mesa]

maybe, we are not sure u know

[grave fractal]

its very likely

[tired oracle]

As i said, i cant say if its possible, neither do i know if they got it done already, im going by what they SAID of what its SUPPOSED to be

[grave fractal]

but yeah its not technically confirmed

[subtle grotto]

Unity claims to have somehow magically solved piracy when that's just not possible, it's never been possible. If Unity can accurately detect pirated installs, the entire fucking gaming industry would be revolutionised because we'd have fool-proof DRM by now

[native mesa]

so, if we do what u say, we are basicly fking idiot right ?

[tired oracle]

cant escape taxes :(

[tired oracle]

what, i didnt say that

[native mesa]

poor ppl living in ameraica

[quasi raptor]

what

[grave fractal]

taxes exist in every country

[native mesa]

ik,u didnt, but unity did, and following what unity say, we are fking idiot right ?

[tired oracle]

What

Unity didnt say that

[quasi raptor]

ceo man

[native mesa]

u sure about that

[tired oracle]

im assuming you mean what they said about the Mobile Devs? how is that related?

[quasi raptor]

but that's also completely unrelated

[bleak token]

so true

[native mesa]

i quirt

[quasi raptor]

great

quirt

[native mesa]

lol

[quasi raptor]

👍

[tired oracle]

"quirt"

[bleak token]

👍

[native mesa]

quit

[tired oracle]

👍

[native mesa]

🥺

[bleak token]

don't put an s in front of it

[native mesa]

👍

[grave fractal]

👍

[quasi raptor]

i hate you

[marsh loom]

👍

[grave fractal]

stop

get some help

[tired oracle]

squirt gun

[quasi raptor]

mmmm

[grave fractal]

squirtle

[bleak token]

squirtle 😎

holy shit the sunglasses emoji has a trophy hat

[grave fractal]

how did this turn from terrible company malpractices to pokemon

yooo no way

[quasi raptor]

gotta catch all the game engines

[grave fractal]

saved this, it is eternalized

[quasi raptor]

LMAO

[bleak token]

[subtle grotto]

Let's try stay on topic please, keep shitposting to a minimum

[native mesa]

[bleak token]

uhh

[tired oracle]

fair enough

[bleak token]

what else should we say about this thing

[native mesa]

oh fk, i just realised what quirt mean

[tired oracle]

My opinion: it aint that bad, but id like to see how they check for installs

[quasi raptor]

godot

[quasi raptor]

(they're not)

[bleak token]

they could just say that they will get the install count by asking steam or whatever platform your game is launched on

which is still unrealistic but at least would be something

[quasi raptor]

that's still not possible

[subtle grotto]

What about games distributed without DRM, such as itch.io?

[quasi raptor]

install count not purchase

[bleak token]

gudluck

[quasi raptor]

also they literally said it'll be an estimate

at least i think

[native mesa]

gud luck

[tired oracle]

Only initial Installs are supposed to count

[quasi raptor]

great

[native mesa]

champ

[quasi raptor]

i mean unless they want to like send a ton of info about the device straight to unity hq™️ idk how they're gonna achieve that

[tired oracle]

they might as well do that

who knows

[quasi raptor]

even better reason not to use unity in that case

[native mesa]

data collection ?

[bleak token]

imagine if they would leak all that info

[quasi raptor]

LMAO

[tired oracle]

some cant just leave unity

[native mesa]

sell data & make more profit ??

[quasi raptor]

fair

[bleak token]

did they sell their soul to unity or what? /j

[native mesa]

same

[quasi raptor]

but if you're able to, you sort of have no reason to stay

[native mesa]

they spent years u know

[tired oracle]

no spent 2 years making a game, and i cant port all that

[bleak token]

yeah finish the game and then leave

I'm not talking about leaving right now

[native mesa]

naah

[tired oracle]

I plan to altough it will take a bunch more time, at the very least 2 more years
and if in that time unity Changes their ways (aka. gets in touch with user base) i will consider staying

[native mesa]

i cant see my selft switching engines

[quasi raptor]

i highly doubt it

[grave fractal]

considering last year they merged with ironSource, a company known for making malware, i dont think its out of the question they're using spyware to collect (and possibly sell) your data, especially considering that's what all big companies do nowadays

[quasi raptor]

why not

[bleak token]

I just did yesterday and I haven't regreted anything so far

[native mesa]

i cant just go on

[native mesa]

good for u 🙂

[quasi raptor]

because...

[tired oracle]

its good to have hope, doesnt mean im not realistic, i know i will propably leave

[tired oracle]

yup

[native mesa]

champ 🙂

[grave fractal]

to godot? if so, could you please check the #1152229096479277066 thread i made? im trying to make a unity-to-godot transition tutorial, and would love to have some input on things you find hard about godot!

[bleak token]

variables and functions and that's about it

[grave fractal]

im gonna try and not advertise this too much but for anyone who is currently switching from unity to godot or wants to in the future after they finish their projects and whatnot, all input is welcome!

[native mesa]

this is interesting

[grave fractal]

i was already gonna talk about that, but thank you for the help! (its still reassuring to see that im not wrong about this being hard for people)

[grave fractal]

i have some experience in this as i've switched to godot from unity last year

[native mesa]

i have an important question

what about old games made in unity and published

[bleak token]

I mean it wasn't hard just probably not doing it correctly right now

[native mesa]

??

[grave fractal]

they say that the changes will apply retroactively (will work on old games) but that is illegal

[quasi raptor]

indeed

[bleak token]

indeed

[native mesa]

😳

[grave fractal]

if you want, i can explain it, not sure if this counts as on-topic though, so i'd have to ask permission from a mod, like yasa who i bet is lurking in this chat as we speak

[quasi raptor]

yasa pls no ban <3

[native mesa]

plz no ban lol

[bleak token]

this is probably fine right ?

[grave fractal]

yeah

you dont actually need the ": RayCast3D"

[bleak token]

cool because everything else is just var

[grave fractal]

its still good to keep it

both for readability and also i think it helps with the auto-fill function?

[native mesa]

cmd language ?

[grave fractal]

gdscript

[bleak token]

yes

[marsh loom]

Yeah I'll stick with c# in unity lmao

[bleak token]

let's say we have this, this looks stupid

[grave fractal]

not sure if you know this already, but there is also @export var variableName: variableType which is the same as C#'s public variable