dull siren
It is no mystery to anyone that Skyrim's faction writing can sometimes leave things to be desired. Let's bring those desires to life:
Imagine that you are a designer working on the Thieves Guild questline. What ONE major change would you make to this questline, whether it be to the lore, gameplay, or character writing? What are its effects on the story and the rest of the game?
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crimson kayak
more barenziah gems
willow ridge
less radiant quests
austere dirge
more barenziah crowns
errant trench
Honestly i would have had Nocturnals presence be more pronounced but that would be antithetical to Nocturnals sphere.
Making Mercer Frey likeable so that the betrayal actually stung was my second go-to, though
Or
Better yet
Ditch mercer, have Brynjolf be the betrayer
And make the betrayal later on in the story
And if Mercer is still in play, have HIM and Karliah (they can still be beefing) join you instead
Betrayal doesnt work when you hate the person by default
willow ridge
turn Mercer into a thalmor agent
heady hearth
And if Mercer is still in play, have HIM and Karliah (they can still be beefing)...
I like mercer but your version is actually so good
Mercer ending up just being an asshole and helps u beat the betrayer Brynjolf along with karliah sounds fire
frigid oar
less radiant quests
I would've just made you able to select what fuckin province it's from
(and maybe reduced the amount needed ig, but that's less important to me)
But that's not actually what I'd choose for my one change, it's just the first thing I saw
willow ridge
Also gotta add in that the speech skill shoulda been use more in general. I find it wild there was only some minor unimpactful checks. But then again the skill sucks beyond just this faction, but you'd expect it to be more impactful in this faction atleast.
frigid oar
I love Brynjolf so... Yeah that'd hurt
frigid oar
Also gotta add in that the speech skill shoulda been use more in general. I find...
True!
willow ridge
I would've just made you able to select what fuckin province it's from
province? me i choose cyrodiil
river vector
i find karliah a little too brooding, very nitpicky but the VA could have toned it back imo. just found interacting with her a bit... forced?
scenic dawn
Oh boy, here we go.
Make opposing Nocturnal an actual choice - why we can oppose Hircine in Companions questline, but here we gotta be a good boy and sell our soul?
Screw daedric magic influence, i will make my own luck
river vector
hard agree on the less radiant quests too. i think more time could have been given to the other guild members to flesh out their stories, have it be more of an impact when things go to shit rather than fighting for something you're only kinda invested in
willow ridge
But that's not actually what I'd choose for my one change, it's just the first t...
I think it wouldve felt better if there was a setup quest instead you have stolen this random item x times I have a special job for you. Re-establish a connection/foothold, build trust, then a finale.
Radiant quest arent inherently bad but the normal result is out of laziness
frigid oar
Ooh a setup would be cool
river vector
Radiant quest arent inherently bad but the normal result is out of laziness
i have beef with the DB for this exact reason
scenic dawn
Like, that would be one major change i will implement: make it possible to refuse Karliah's plan.
Obviosly Nocturnal will be angry to the Guild, but bringing the key back isn't the only way to break the curse - storm the sanctum, defy Nocturnal once more, and maybe pillage some of her treasures in the process
A heist to remember
errant trench
I like mercer but your version is actually so good
It would also be a much better way of doing characters because I am tired of seeing character betrayals and twists from miles away.
Mercer doesnt need a heart of gold but if he was at least a good guildmaster and not betray that would be good
Karliah being framed would still make sense but if it was instead a mystery as to who did it, that would be cool
That brings me to the Nightingale Trinity though, it would either have to be public knowledge to the guild or knowledge only people in a position like Brynjolfs would know for that idea to work, since Brynjolf being the betrayer also depends upon knowledge of the trinity and the skeleton key
willow ridge
A heist to remember
Selling your soul makes sense in the thieves guild, selling even your soul for abit more coin. Companions it never made any sense imo especially that no rumors existed for how long they hid the wolf suits.
errant trench
A shame werewolf thieves tend to lack subtlety
Though ripping open doors is a plus
willow ridge
Werewolf rolls to sneak 1d20 intimidation check
wild hill
Give the Nightingale's the axe and make them an optional route for low level characters while beefing Mercer up with the Skeleton key. Also have more than three missions for stealing things. Also also have a bit more crossover with the Dark Brotherhood, as Delvin is a great connecting piece that isn't utilized much.
As Sov said make Mercer likable, and actually maybe have a system where Brynjolf and Mercer give you conflicting tasks every now and then, and whoever you end up going with will affect who snaps and betrays the guild.
Then, and this is the bit I was most frustrated about, give us options on how to take the betrayer down. If we're low level, the Nightingale's will give us a temporary power buff to take them down, if we're a part of the Dark Brotherhood, have them be a faction we can contract with taking him down, and if we think we're powerful enough, give us the Don't Fear the Reaper ending where we go after him by ourselves
I think the most important part is that we're given at least the illusion that a lot more is happening behind the scenes with the guild
scenic dawn
As Sov said make Mercer likable, and actually maybe have a system where Brynjolf...
"What's Karliah been filling your head with? Tales of thieves with honor? Oaths rife with falsehoods and broken promises? Nocturnal doesn't care about you, the Key or anything having to do with the Guild."
I think you skipped this line when confronting Mercer
wild hill
No I didn't
I'm rewriting it, as per the premise
I think his motive was fairly weak, personally. Greed is one thing, but he went to a whole other level
fleet saddle
It still bothers me, all these years later, that we never know where Rune came from....
heady hearth
Nvm
long flame
fix the uh fix the thing with the thing. The thing, that is. :D
etc.
mods.
willow ridge
It still bothers me, all these years later, that we never know where Rune came f...
All the way from ESO's enchanting system
visual coral
More thieving missions, or add a second storyline.
Tbf, all of the guilds in Skyrim actually could use a second storyline.
Morrowind imo, did a pretty good job of combining not just one, but three concurrent storyline (or rather, the third one done concurrently with the second, though it is not an actual part of the Thieves Guild questline) of the Thieves Guild
Like, the primary questline is pretty much the Guild's war against the Cammona Tong (I just love this Mafia vs Mafia-esque storyline) if a bit crude. Second is how we revive basically the Elder Scrolls' version of Robin Hood, the Bal Molagmer.
And the Bal Molagmer also involves the Twin Lamps mini quest
it's just Peak
visual coral
It is no mystery to anyone that Skyrim's faction writing can sometimes leave thi...
The way I see it for additional storyline:
visual coral
As for Karliah, she is kind of a wild card here. Though I do feel like she can get involved more in the Guild's dealings rather than keep moaning about Mercer being an asshole and restoring the Nightingale, like the mob boss thing ( hell, she can even give nods to the Morrowind questline by remarking that the Guild's issues reminds her of what her parents told her about Vvardenfell's Guild's dealings with Cammona Tong)
scenic dawn
The way I see it for additional storyline:
- branching storyline, either expand...
What? Orvas has more in common with that idiot Silver-Blood.
Hell, they literally use Reachmen as slaves in the mines
Maven is a cutthroat politician of her own, true, but her goal of making it into the political elite of the Empire is very much valid, considering she grew up in the burnt down Riften.
Orvas was just a racist psycho, literally
visual coral
Orvas was just a racist psycho, literally
yeap, but better in a more organizational thing.
The Silver-Bloods aren't even shown to be a fully organized crime ring, as much as I want to see Bethesda make them do so. The fact that they made a deal with the Reachmen shows that. Orvas and his Cammona Tong meanwhile, imho, is better organized. Hell, they don't even need to outsource when he plans to kill his brother Vedam. Heck if the Thief Nerevarine wouldn't interfere, I believe he will do just that.
I won't call him a Psycho though. racist, yes, but he's sane enough to give the Nerevarine support to become a Hlaalu Hortator
scenic dawn
I won't call him a Psycho, though
Well, then you didn't even scratch the surface of everything illegitimate Camonna Tong was doing for the entirety of Morrowind 
One of the crazier quests was about Cammona Tong stuffing a Khajiit Slave with Moon Sugar to smuggle the product, and then gutting the slave to retrieve the product
Or the whole Ash Statue business which greatly aided Dagoth Ur
Either way, thats enough Camonna Tong.
Supporting Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood is something Imperial Politicians were doing for ages - its the exact reason Maven still is willing to support both in the Skyrim despite their very obvious decline.
visual coral
Hence the branching storyline on the first point I proposed, though the go full independent thing will require the Guild to resolve the Nocturnal problem first.
soft crypt
I would definitely go for a more side quest centered approach as I don't hate the thieves guild questline and the fact that it makes you work for the leadership role. But once you become the guildmaster, it would be fun to organize full scale heists or looting runs with multiple members all doing a specific job as in a party system. Or an organised raid on the treasury of jarls of different holds. In short, I would like joint missions of looting and thieving with different members of the guild instead of working solo and actually see the other members do jobs on their own which would also be nice.
frigid oar
I would definitely go for a more side quest centered approach as I don't hate th...
The fact you have to do things besides the mq to get leadership is the best thing the thieves guild does
It sucks it does it in such a bad way at the same time
And that it doesn't mean much?
Not that we need more income but getting a slice of the income and loot would be cool
TG is honestly hard for me to choose one change I'd make
I think I generally agree with the side quests being more integrated and better done in general but that's very vague
near fjord
More Paragons like the Crown of Barenziah would be interesting. It's mentioned as this big fancy concept when the concept is mentioned, but then it turns out to be the only one in play.
visual coral
I think I generally agree with the side quests being more integrated and better ...
Like I said, Imho the Bal Molagmer-esque side quest is pretty much what the Skyrim TG needs in terms of the side quests
but with better programming to follow with the radiant AI
soft crypt
I would definitely love those combined heist or group quests with lots of spoil. It would make me feel like a part of something. I also think that immediately becoming a nightingale after just a few jobs is ridiculous but ig its the thing with skyrim. Listener after 2 missions, harbinger after 5 and archmage too