#Devil's Advocate: Mephala

355 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

torn wharf
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It is no secret that Daedric Princes are as dangerous as they are powerful. They wreak destruction, craft devious plots, sow madness and cause untold deaths across Tamriel. And yet, many mortals still turn to worship them...

What reasons can you think of to worship Black Hands Mephala, the Webspinner, the Lady of Whispers and the Daedric Prince of Deception, Sex, and Murder?

ON-prerelease-Mephala.png
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(you only get six days instead of seven for this one because uhhh six walking ways or something, we're not late, shut up)

velvet cloak
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Mephala is too easy, cause Dunmer respect her since ancient times CuteAltmer

But aside them, that kid in Dragonsreach is a good example of someone willing to worship her - third and beyond noble sons alongside the illegitimate heirs, or daughters that are only going to get married off from their family definitely are prime candidates to worship her.

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I'd say like half of the average royal court are probably tempted by her or her servants

torn wharf
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Oh by the way

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<@&1011584455019872266>

night plinth
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Omg the lore

torn wharf
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Since Black Books are kind of on hold, the Seeker role will be pinged for QOTW instead to encourage people to share perspectives and discuss

dull bloom
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I think they really really like spiders

hollow citrus
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Girlboss gatekeep stab 28 times

vernal elbow
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Because you require secrets

dull bloom
hollow citrus
storm granite
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"Mephala?" Cyrus said. "Which Lord is that?"
Gar flipped through a book, looking for something to back up what he was already going to say. "The Webspinner in day parlance; otherwise it gets hazy. Ties to the Morag Tong, ties to sordid other cults in the provinces, running gamut from drugs to dibbledark to, hell, fashion trends even. Weird one, this Mephala."

Gotta worship the God of Fashion fr

hollow citrus
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Im the god of fashion, Mephala is merely a pale imitation

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But as a genuine answer to the question I imagine Mephala does appeal to a lot of people who feel a loss of control in their life.

And they can take that out via murder, manipulation, sex, or some combination thereof.

Whilst the sex/murder thing is brought up a lot, I think its her manipulative tendencies which garner much of her interest. She takes secrets and she uses them against people, she weaves lies and manipulates emotions to gain results that amuse her. Her agents pull strings and carry out her will dutifully and without overbearing monitoring.

When you serve the spinner you can take some measure of control in the plots you weave

torn wharf
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This seems almost like a cop out answer but I think Mephala would really appeal to those into esoterica. Any cult to Mephala is a mystery cult, she is the Enigma of the "enigma, enemy, teacher" trio. One of her biggest contributions to Chimeri society is teaching them esoteric knowledge about the universe which they can then apply to their daily lives.

This ties into what Sovereign said about control, and I see it much in the same way as people who are into astrology and other such hobbies - by devoting themselves to divining an unknowable mystery, people can find direction in life and even gain some sense of control over it by guiding themselves through their revelations. Of course, it's also just as likely that Mephala would be leading them on and playing them, but ultimately that's part of the appeal: What is trickery if not yet another mystery to see through?

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Besides that, I reckon she would appeal a lot to people who deal with different aspects of her sphere. Assassins, yes, but also prostitutes, spies, artists, actors. People who engage in seduction, deception, and manipulation, or oppositely - immerse themselves into it to learn how to protect themselves from such influences.

velvet cloak
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Still think main thing people would follow her for is succeeding in court intrigues.

Fifth or beyond son that is out of luck when it comes to inheriting parent's land? Ask the whispering lady for your parent's secrets and pay back by discretely killing off other heirs.

Court Steward that aims for little more than being a servant their whole life? Use the coin to fund an entire branch of cultists and take the throne through a coup.

Married off to a count in middle-nowhere? Ask webspinner for advice in charming/blackmailing count's advisor, then poison the fool count and use that advisor as a scapegoat. Start ruling as a 'mourning widow' HowardPoint

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She really is a better option for those compared to Boethiah, which requires you to solve things with your own hands, or Dagon, which is just as likely to backfire and kill/destroy everyone

torn wharf
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With Boethiah what you see is what you get, with Mephala she might get just as much of a kick from watching you fumble through your grand scheme and die in a ditch as she would helping you

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At the end of the day she is one of the Three Good Daedra, and they're all about DYI.

dusk schooner
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Mephala is the deadric prince of choice for the girlboss independent IT gurl 💫

storm granite
dusk schooner
storm granite
torn karma
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I'm most intrigued by the idea of weaving a plot or even tale - Vivec as the Poet, for a prime example. I almost wonder if she'd appeal to bards

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Especially those who use their tales, poems, and songs to - as other people have already emphasized - control or manipulate others, themselves, narratives in general. Vivec is changing what he think through his poetry almost as much as he's changing and manipulating what others think, I'd wager. Maybe more sometimes. Mephala seems like she'd be a useful tool for anything like that

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I'm imagining like Svaknir but perhaps with more deliberation

torn karma
torn wharf
torn karma
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Oh interesting

torn wharf
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Though it depends on the kind of esoterica

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Really it's encoded prose with diagrams and symbols

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Some alchemical texts are basically just pages of illustrations with some notes of explanation

hollow citrus
torn wharf
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Some are whole textual manuscripts

hollow citrus
torn karma
hollow citrus
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And tbf thats hardly sporting since he's an androgynous living god with half chimer half dunmer skin and a spear that is heavily involved in innuendo

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Not many bards match that

torn karma
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Right xD

hollow citrus
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Fewer still wield a spear

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Bards and spears dont work, much like wizards and warhammers

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Which sounds like a knockoff dnd clone

torn karma
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A lot of skalds probably wield weapons

hollow citrus
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Probably sing to and with them

torn karma
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xD

hollow citrus
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Considering how nords tend to view their art and war, its actually probable they might I would argue. After all, whats a man with no axe? And what does it say of a man with a poorly maintained one, at that?

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Skalds may not be polishing any spears but they'll sharpen their axes im sure

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Rejecting to take a mans axe is quite literally a symbolic gesture as well

torn karma
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I think we can hire a skald in Skyrim

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Like a hireling follower

hollow citrus
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I dont recall which that would be

torn wharf
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The concept of acting upon the world around you with cutting words and cutting swords

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Manipulation not just in the "tricking someone into doing a thing for you" sense but in its most basic sense of enacting your will unto an object

torn karma
hollow citrus
torn wharf
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Precisely

torn karma
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https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ogmund
I was thinking this guy. He's Silver-Blood Inn's dedicated bard

Skyrim:Ogmund

Ogmund is a Nord and the resident bard (or as he puts it, "old skald") at the Silver-Blood Inn in Markarth. While most of his time is spent at the inn, he also spends some time at his home nearby. He claims to have been very influential among Skyrim's bards, as his styles and songs are still passed down by teachers to their students at the Bards...

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I was mixing him and Vorstag up

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He is lightly armed and armored tho

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A skald? Is that some kind of bard?
"That's about the truth of it. Write tales about the sights I've seen. The battles I've fought. Earned quite a name for myself when I was younger. The Bards College still teaches some of my work to their students."

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I've seen every corner of Skyrim, but nothing is as beautiful as the battlefield.

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Yeah, warrior bards, that's kind of what I was imagining

hollow citrus
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I will always contest that Nordic artistry is top tier

torn wharf
# hollow citrus Your will made real

Mephala and Azura are the twin gates of tradition and Boethiah is the secret flame.

Boethiah and Azura are the principles of the universal plot, which is begetting, which is creation, and Mephala makes of it an art form.
As Vivec puts it

hollow citrus
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Ah

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Two artists weaving the world

torn karma
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Thus, bard

torn wharf
hollow citrus
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That really thrice-blesses my house

limber nimbus
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MEE

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YAY

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Something i find real interesting about mephala

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Is that her realm and thus her body is physically shaped like the wheel

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It even has a tower at the centremost point

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And it has eight caves like eight spokes

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The wheel and being the wheel is also probably the most important secret in TES and thus that may be why.

torn wharf
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Her web iconography is likely meant to invoke the wheel as well

torn karma
limber nimbus
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I am the stupu dupu

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Her logo is a black widow which echoes the whole femme fatale thing as well as the whole thing with spiders devouring their mates after breeding.

torn wharf
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And her realm is a weaving skein

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@torn karma

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Bride of Sithis, he cuts and she weaves

limber nimbus
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I think words of clan mother ahnissi explains that

torn wharf
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Yuh

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Again, enigma

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Weaver of truths and lies

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Theorist and terrorist

limber nimbus
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Yeah

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Bring both black hands to every argument

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Idk what that actually means though

torn wharf
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It's a concept present in occultism that is somewhat native to Europe and somewhat imported from Eastern traditions

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For example the idea of the left hand being an unclean hand and it being taboo to touch anything clean with it, and vice versa with the right

limber nimbus
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And mephala has close ties to the occult, an example being her summoning day also being the witches festival in high rock, yes?

torn wharf
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No no I'm talking about the real world inspo for now

limber nimbus
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Ohki

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So that’s like the thing where you’d shatter a glass if a lizard touched it, the unclean touching the clean?

torn wharf
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The right hand path in occult practices is associated with good magics, light, healing and protection. Meanwhile the left hand was associated with evil magic, destruction and harm.

limber nimbus
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Ohh

torn wharf
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This mysticism comes from discrimination against lefties, which is very deeply rooted in various cultures

limber nimbus
torn wharf
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And even in language - the words sinister (bad, threatening) and sinistral (left handed) are cognates

torn wharf
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At the most basic level she's just... interaction, development, progression

limber nimbus
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Tzeentch

torn wharf
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Good and bad, productive and unproductive

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Sex and murder, theory and terror

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That's why she commands mastery of both the right hand and the left

limber nimbus
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Hm

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Everywhere i look in things tied to mephala i see duality of that

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Even the morag tong and the dark brotherhood are duality, one works in broad daylight, the other skulks in the darkness.

torn wharf
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Ehhh not strictly that example

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The Tong still have to operate in stealth because people can still try to stop them and killing people outside the writ is a crime

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They're supposed to assassinate their targets with minimal casualties and then report the murder themselves to present the writ

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The Morag Tong is legally permitted to kill the person in the writ but that doesn't mean it's illegal to try to stop them

hollow citrus
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I like the idea of the Tong more than the Dark Brotherhood tbh, the Dark Brotherhoods rules dont actually govern conduct of duty they just govern that you cant kill your coworkers.

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Whereas the Tong has actionable rules of conduct whilst working and has to still abide by Morrowind law

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That alone makes it far more interesting to me because the Dark Brotherhood is basically just a "I can kill whoever I want" club with no real qualms about collateral damage or killing non-targets.

The reason the hitman games are a fun challenge is because yes you can kill everyone, but theres nothing remotely rewarding about that beyond momentary catharsis (or if you get a clip like that flying suitcase chasing a guy).

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The Morag Tong is assassins as a job

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The dark brotherhood is a sithis larp club who also only accept mentally deranged murderers

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Plus lets be honest the morag tong just have a superior aesthetic as well, a black bodysuit with a giant red hand is just stupid to look at

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I can only imagine Mephala looks at the Dark Brotherhood as some amusing little side thing to occasionally weave a thread with

limber nimbus
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Morag tong gear is kinda just leather stitched together with some asymmetrical goggles.

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Having a uniform for the dark brotherhood is stupid to begin with, as with any criminal organisation like it.

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Also typically you get a bonus reward for minimising collateral damage or going unnoticed, just helping the gears turn smoothly is rewarded

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Morag tong have no such bonuses

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And they’re usually just shady people whereas the members of the dark brotherhood are always super memorable because they have a lot of character.

torn wharf
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Literally Naryu and Ashur:

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Bit unfair to judge memorable character when the Tong were only playable in one game notorious for its copy pasted dialogue and NPC faces

limber nimbus
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I HAVEN PLAYED ESO YOURE BEIN MEAN TO MEE

torn wharf
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Cope and seethe, Jack

limber nimbus
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Something interesting about the DBH is the guy who wrote them originally for oblivion was not a big lore guy

torn wharf
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Dark Brotherhood in Morrowind and Morag Tong in Skyrim have the exact same amount of personality because they're just faceless goons for you to kill GWcorbinHolyFuck

limber nimbus
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He actually didn’t know that much about the lore of the game so he basically just took the themes of the church and made it edgy and emo for the DBH in oblivion.

torn wharf
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Fuckin Emil

limber nimbus
torn wharf
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Hey HEY

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Don't you DARE use my boy against me

limber nimbus
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MAPLE IS A NIER FAN YIPPEE

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Its funny being attacked by the morag tong in morrowind despite me, being their boss.

torn wharf
limber nimbus
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Yeah dude

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The morag tong faction that starts tribunal and the morag tong you join aren’t the same thing apparently

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So you can get the grandmaster of the tong while the assassins still harass you

torn wharf
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There are no Morag Tong in Tribunal though

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The assassins that come after you are Dark Brotherhood

limber nimbus
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Motherfucker what

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Oh yeah

torn wharf
limber nimbus
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No shut up

torn wharf
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NOT the emoji I meant to send

limber nimbus
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They have the morag tong goggles

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It’s an easy fuckin mistake to make okay

torn wharf
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Not really no

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Not when they're called DB assassins and drop DB armor and the first quest of the Tribunal DLC is to find the DB operation leader

limber nimbus
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I forgor

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I thoughtsed they was morag tong becus they had the goggles on their helmets

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I forgor

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Its been a while

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SHUT UP

torn karma
limber nimbus
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Is that the book brothers of darkness of whatever

torn karma
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Idr what it's called

limber nimbus
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Nowhere boys lmfao

torn karma
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It's basically like "when you're assassinating people, don't wear your armor unless you're making a statement that we were involved. Wearing it when meeting clients is chill tho"

limber nimbus
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Ohh right

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Mephala’s said to have obtained the ebony blade as a trophy iirc, which is mentioned in an iteration of the story where rajhin seduces her through feeding her ego, and sleeps with her to steal her things.

torn karma
stone gazelle
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Maybe since shes the queen of sex and you really want a kid, you're willing to SELL YOUR SOUL to her in order for her to provide you with a child.

torn wharf
stone gazelle
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That would be a really cool background lore for a character low key

torn wharf
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She's less about pregnancy and childbirth (that leans more in the direction of Mara) and more about seduction and using sex as a tool

stone gazelle
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You think maybe the Lusty Argonian Maid used Mephala to try to seduce Cassius Curio (or whatever the guys name is) to try to get something she wanted

torn wharf
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Nah

stone gazelle
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Damn

torn wharf
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The Lusty Argonian Maid is just porn.

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Fiction

stone gazelle
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But theres more to it

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I know theres a meaning behind it

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I just need to look deeper

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It symbolizes the oppression of women in that time and how human males sometimes use women just for their sexual features

torn wharf
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The meaning is that racism goes hand in hand with slavery and sexual exploitation

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To the point where such scenarios are publicly fetishized

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That's where it begins and ends

stone gazelle
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I could be grasping at straws but I want to remain open minded

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Because Mephala's goals and the Lusty Argonian Maid's (potential?) goals seem similar

torn wharf
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...no

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How about we don't reframe the story where an exploited racial minority is being forced into sexual favors into a story where the minorities were actually evil schemers working for the Murder God all along, hm?

stone gazelle
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My badddddd

limber nimbus
torn wharf
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I just mean that if you were looking to have a child she is not exactly a fertility god

limber nimbus
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yeah

stone gazelle
limber nimbus
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that'd be mara, the goddess of marriage and motherhood

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since i doubt the product of sex is really what dibella governs

stone gazelle
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doesnt haelga like dibella

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what is dibella for

limber nimbus
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dibella is the goddess of sex

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and not the way a mephala disciple would see it

stone gazelle
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then wouldnt she be the goddess of what comes out of sex

limber nimbus
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nah

stone gazelle
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so dibella - regular sex between lovers
mephala - sex to seduce people

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mephala is so cool, i love her methods of exploiting peoples weaknesses

limber nimbus
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yes

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mephala is the manipulator goddess

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sex as a tool

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not as an expression

torn wharf
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Dibella is the goddess of beauty, youth, affection, and love

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Sex falls under her sphere as a way of both appreciating beauty of another body and as a means of expressing love and affection for someone else

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Mara is the goddess of marriage, childbirth, fertility, and agriculture

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Sex as specifically a means of procreation would fall under her sphere

hollow citrus
limber nimbus
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bro we meet the lusty argonian maid writer in morrowind

hollow citrus
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Yeah he's a hlaalu councilor if im not mistaken

limber nimbus
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he makes you strip down to join his clan

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yea

hollow citrus
torn wharf
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Nah

hollow citrus
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Oh its the kiss isnt it

torn wharf
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To make you Hlaalu Hortator he asks you either to kiss him or, if the disposition is too low, to bribe him

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Meanwhile to join House Hlaalu he has you strip for him

hollow citrus
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I always mix those two up

limber nimbus
hollow citrus
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Im happy to not be a min-maxxer in that way

stone gazelle
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maybe she seduced balgruuf of whiterun because remember she ||manipulates his kid and tells him he has a different mother than his siblings||

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so maybe shes his mother

torn wharf
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Why would she seduce random people

stone gazelle
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for entertainment

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but like jarl balgruf for example

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hes not random

torn wharf
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I think you heavily underestimate what gods in TES are supposed to be

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That kid would be a demiprince god

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This is not what's happening. The implication is just that Balgruuf either had multiple wives or a bastard.

stone gazelle
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Darn

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I’m no lore expert it’s just a theory

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Not even a theory it’s more of just a question

torn wharf
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Yeah, which is why I'm pointing out that Mephala doesn't work like that

stone gazelle
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How does she work then

torn karma
torn karma
stone gazelle
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googly do you think it would be fun to be mephala

torn wharf
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I doubt it would be "fun" to be any kind of god

hollow citrus
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Doomed to be one concept for eternity, immortal and unchanging

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Ithelia's Lament

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Though in fairness she was complaining because her nature denies her freedom amongst her own kin.

vague geode
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Devils advocate Jyggalag when?

torn wharf
vague geode
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😭

stone gazelle
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Deceiving people and all that

split isle
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To deceive people, to grow in ranks by deceiving them, and just like

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power struggle

stone gazelle
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Exactly

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It would be fun to watch humanity fail

split isle
stone gazelle
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What does that mean lmao

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Is that a fancy way of you reacting to my message

limber nimbus
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Literally reason:

“Because”

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But she is a goddess and thus when she herself does things it’s for amusement

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As we see in her quest in oblivion

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She asks you to make two families turn on eachother, and her reason from what i recall is “idk it’s funny ig”

raven creek
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I would imagine that all ethical and morally ambitious thoughts would immediately melt away when the Whiterun guard, who never changes shifts and walks on a 24hr patrol route where all of 4 women live, suddenly gains the Devine favor of what is essentially the Elder Scroll’s god of yanderes. Where the rest of his very existence would be dedicated to praising said god of yandere and all her form in one of her many suggestive ‘churches’

torn wharf
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Wha

storm granite
split isle
raven creek
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I think I made My case clear. Imma stand by it.

torn wharf
raven creek
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It’s pretty concise assuming you understand the term Yandere.

storm granite
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You aren't SoftwareCode you are SpaghettiCode

raven creek
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It should be noted I just finished an 8 hour tinkering project that I was losing My mind on-

raven creek
torn wharf
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The question was about what reasons one would have to voluntarily worship Mephala and instead you provided what I can only assume to be some kind of possession scenario

raven creek
stone gazelle
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Oh boy

hollow citrus
limber nimbus
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Something i find interesting is the nuance mephala’s sphere has

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Killing but only when done in secret

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Were it just killing mephala would be the god of warlords

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But it’s specifically the secrecy that she’s privy to

storm granite
limber nimbus
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Konahrik (warlord) would probably prefer dagon if any prince

torn wharf
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Power word shit yourself

limber nimbus
torn wharf
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No

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Explode

torn wharf
limber nimbus
limber nimbus
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Mephala’s also brought about some of the most drastic change on tamriel by having the remaining remans and their alaviri successor murdered

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(I reckon the ebony blade belonged to the akaviri potentate originally but there’s no proof of that)

torn wharf
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I get the basic concept but I feel like I could understand if better

limber nimbus
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Yeah it’s kinda vague

torn wharf
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It isn't it just relies entirely on out of world understanding

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MK took the concept from Crowley

limber nimbus
torn wharf
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Crowley was an irl occultist writer

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Notorious asshole and racist but that's neither here nor there

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You know how MK's metaphysics writing often has crossover with Buddhism? Yeah that's usually through Crowley

limber nimbus
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Buddhism is cool

torn wharf
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Yeah that Crowley, the Thelema guy

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Mephala is more or less supposed to represent Will

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Action without goal, for the sake of itself

limber nimbus
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Oh okay

torn wharf
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Rottendeadite had a good essay on it

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One moment

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The dilemma of wanting to learn more but not wanting to read Crowley

limber nimbus
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I see

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Mephala’s definitely a nirvana fan

torn wharf
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Why are you like this

storm granite
stone gazelle
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Wait is mephala the one with the annoying beacon

torn karma
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No, that's Meridia

limber nimbus
storm granite
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How to explain Mephala simple the lyrics of Heart-Shaped Box trollos

limber nimbus
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SHE HAS ME LIKE A PISCES WHEN I AM WEAK

split isle
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I'VE BEEN LOCKED INSIDE YOUR HEART-SHAPED BOX FOR WEEKS

storm granite
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I'VE BEEN DRAWN INTO YOUR MAGNET TAR PIT TRAP

split isle
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I WISH I COULD EAT YOUR CANCER WHEN YOU TURN BLACK

torn wharf
split isle
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HEY, WAIT
I GOT A NEW COMPLAINT
FOREVER IN DEBT TO YOUR PRICELESS ADVICE
YOUR ADVICE

storm granite
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Bro kept going even tho the chain got broken 😭

split isle
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I thought Maple contributed 😭

limber nimbus
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Music is literally my special interest bruv so pipe down

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But to be fair i wouldn’t be suprised if mephala played guitar (or literally any string instrument)

torn wharf
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Bro hounding me for days and now goes "pipe down" smh

limber nimbus
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Hey maybe i wouldn’t have needed to if you’d just said yes or no the first time i asked

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(I was curious)

dull bloom