dusk-modding

[honest stag]

Still, triggering it several times in quick succession can make things look bad

Sometimes

[blissful lion]

ok thanks

do you know anything about this?

[honest stag]

the only times i've seen doors going back too fast is if they were triggered 2+ times at once

or while the door was still in motion

[blissful lion]

ok

[honest stag]

aight gonna play it now

sry i took so long

also you are based for making new versions AND naming them as such

i'm too lazy for that

hahaha that's super neat

i love that

simple yet so effective

i do feel the player is going to be confused and not move out of the way immedately though

i didnt

an instakill feels a little too harsh

and save-loading breaks things as you know

[blissful lion]

well getting ran over by a car doesnt just make a scratch

the biggest problem would be making sure player doesnt clip trough the wall

and theres so much signs showing whats gonna happen

the engine turns on and the lights show you which car is on

[honest stag]

yea but considering the fact that like, 1 map even uses a moving trigger hurt

ppl who play maps arent used to this stuff is what im saying

[blissful lion]

i want a second opinion

jk, but you also use moving trigger hurts

[honest stag]

oh i'm not arguing you should like remove it lol

just saying an instakill is a bit unfair there

imo

I'd say just statistically people will think the engine and the lights are just a way to trick you

Maybe a msg on screen saying "run"?

[crisp raven]

It's good to remember that

(1 the saves system is not very good in the SDK, I think maps should avoid creating situations where players want/need to use it (such as instant death traps).

(2 People have much less patience with custom maps than with official maps

If you want a second opinion that's mine

[blissful lion]

yeah i agree, esp with 2

im hoping the saving gets fixed in the update

i cant make the car not instakill since it would push the player into the wall

also, what broken with loading besides breakables and doors with angles key?

[crisp raven]

Players also just get the sword 😭

When they load

Also the kill and secret count bugs

[honest stag]

wow you forgot the worst one of them all

turrets respawn

also enemies may get de-alerted i think???

unsure about that one

[crisp raven]

God why

[short solar]

what the fucking hell

[honest stag]

i remember a brief period in time where every single map released for a couple months straight had turrets

i hated it

[honest stag]

oh hey your .lit file is outdated

havent seen that in a while

[crisp raven]

Classic problem

[blissful lion]

compiled again and its fixed

[honest stag]

kinda looks cool in a way

[blissful lion]

i opened different tabs and maybe compiler didnt finish

is it worth skipping faces of brush entities youll never see?

[honest stag]

i'd say yes

if you turn it into a habit and keep doing it - it'll pay off with lower compiling time

in the long run

probably performance too

[honest stag]

that goes for all brushes imo, not just entities

[blissful lion]

shouldnt sealing do that for you

[honest stag]

partially

sometimes you have brushes within the playable area that are still never visible to the player

for example you make a closet in the room, and sealing won't cut it out

cuz it's inside of the playable hull

so you cut the back of it manually

or the underside of a stool

or the top side of a celling fan

you get it

[blissful lion]

yeah

[gritty forge]

could we get a targetname tag for trigger_hurt in the next update

so that whenever trigger_hurt gets activated by something else the player takes that amount of dmg

i guess someone could parent a gigantic trigger_hurt for a specific area to a func_door and target that func_door to pass the trigger_hurt over the area really quickly but that sounds insane jank

[honest stag]

Also

It doesn't have to completely stop at the wall right?

Maybe something like a pole?

A pillar?

Several of those parking yellow pole things

Forgot the nane

Name

[blissful lion]

maybe the poles

[short solar]

hey just a quick funny haha question what is the file size limit for a dusk map

[muted glacier]

There isnt really lmao. The larger it is the longer the compile time.

[gritty forge]

apparently -bsp2 has a 4gb file size limit

[short solar]

4...gigabytes....

[muted glacier]

You got a 4 terrabyte map??

[gritty forge]

doubt anyone's even gonna come close to the 4gb limit

bsp2 can handle "nearly infinitely sized/detailed maps"

[muted glacier]

My nacht map is about Half a gigabyte right now, but by the time its finished im sure it will be a gig or just under.

[short solar]

are any of you familiar with gm_bigcity

[gritty forge]

your point being

[short solar]

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[honest stag]

the fuck

my biggest .bsp is a 2-year-old map where i went batshit insane on tiny details (which arent even any good)

unsealed, fucked, long-compiling mess that i somehow had the guts to release and call a map

funnily enough my current map is nearing that file size and it's not even 40% done

oh and that biggest map is like

17 mb

[crisp raven]

Which map is this?

[honest stag]

mansion

[crisp raven]

We never got to see the inside 😔

There were probably so many brush guns 🥺

[honest stag]

here

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/bjVGsnoZQbQvTKqimovAPtPGlEacmVso_sCVhOb7X6M/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/586508960128040961/711218691983015976/unknown.png?width=799&height=447

that was the inside

yes it's like 10x bigger than it looks from outside

[crisp raven]

Naturally

[muted glacier]

Wait now. Youve got me doubting myself. Theres no way my file is that big. Maybe im a fucking idiot and cant read file size.

[honest stag]

Are you sure its not like

500kb

Or whatever

Not megabytes, kilobytes

If you're talking about .map

Which is a totally reasonable amount

[muted glacier]

It honestly might be. Im not at home right now to look but that sounds wayyy more reasonable if your biggest map file is 17 mb

[honest stag]

My biggest bsp*

My biggest .map is way lower

Not sure how low

Cuz .map is literally a text file

[muted glacier]

Hm. Im curious. Ill keep you posted when I get home in about an hour on the size of my .map and .bsp files.

[alpine depot]

i wonder what my largest map size is

can't figure it out off the top of my head cuz all my maps are massive lmao

[muted glacier]

Alright. So my Nacht Der Untoten is 69 megabytes right now.

[blissful lion]

ok i skipped >600 faces

thats like 3% of all faces

[sacred flicker]

I'm trying to set up trenchbroom on my mac, but i can't find the SDK folder in the game files. It's been a while since i did this, and back then i was on windows so i'm not sure what to do

[blissful lion]

it should be Dusk\SDK

did you download the beta?

[ancient depot]

The SDK is not available for Mac or Linux, so Steam won't download the files

[sacred flicker]

oh

damn

[ancient depot]

You could probably use Proton and it might work

[sacred flicker]

Idk what that is lol

[blissful lion]

iirc a program that lets you run windows programs on mac

[ancient depot]

Linux*, though I originally thought it worked for Mac too but apparently it doesn't

It's basically Valve's fork of Wine

[crimson patrol]

l*nux

[blissful lion]

m*c

[blissful lion]

fuck you fullbright models

[honest stag]

iirc they pick the light level of a pixel right below their origin point

but you can lightproxy them to make them darker

they'll still look weird cuz no shadows but still

[gritty forge]

doesn't duskdude's weapons do that too

is that why it flickers to fullbright sometimes?

[honest stag]

yes, probably because you go through the floor briefly as well

sometimes

like when doors shove you and shit

or when there are small gaps between rooms in maps

[muted glacier]

Wait even if you light proxy theres no shadow? So its still all one shade of light? Or does it just not leave a shadow on the ground/wall?

[gritty forge]

i think it means that the model won't selfshadow or shadow the world based on lighting around it

only from that lightproxy

clearly the next step is for some sick bastard to turn every dusk object/prop into a brush prop equivalent

[gritty forge]

definitely didnt use snap to integer once

thanking god for CZG's arch tutorial and ctrl+j

[muted glacier]

Ive done some of those. Nowhere near all of them, but I was tired of not having shadows and I dont know how to light proxy, so I just made them with brushes

[blissful lion]

i did the car and 3 lights

[blissful lion]

actually are those any machines or vehicles?

could use them myself for my map

if not ill just make everything in that garage a car

[honest stag]

gon make u a car now

[blissful lion]

i have a brush car

[honest stag]

you'll have another

[blissful lion]

ok

do you have the textures for it too?

[honest stag]

i'll use dusk tex, but not the car ones

[blissful lion]

good luck

[blissful lion]

epic, really thank you

[honest stag]

and you can recolor it for epic variety with ease

[blissful lion]

I had to scale it up a little

[honest stag]

sick

i can make more if needed

[blissful lion]

not needed rn

[honest stag]

aighty

[blissful lion]

thanks again

[blissful lion]

i gotta do combat again

[crimson patrol]

Lol I have some car models as well

A bus, a traincar and trucks

[honest stag]

oh yeah i got the truck too

and a motorbike

[blissful lion]

i have a urinal model 👍

[crimson patrol]

I also have these cool silos with masterful brush catwalks

[muted glacier]

Well, technically 1, its the trucks used for my map, but theyre sloppy as fuck and the rotation on it is screwed. Not to mention its dated from ww2 so it looks old af. Not that it helps you now, but after my project eventually gets finished, I intend to make a map with all the brush props that Ive made and share it with everyone and update it so that we can get a large catalogue of brush props that people can use to make maps. Similar to the way that people make maps in Fortnite Creative (cringe I know, but its fun, sorry).

[blissful lion]

this part has pretty bad combat

[blissful lion]

i would love if someone playtested this

how do i make the son of intoxigator have the correct lightning?

[honest stag]

is he still dark if you place him in a fully bright room?

if yes, you can lightproxy him to some entity that matches the room's lighting

well you can lightproxy him anyway, but if this is a consistent bug then it's the only solution

[blissful lion]

ill try, thanks

can you playtest?

[honest stag]

i just got free, so if that's the relevant version - sure

[blissful lion]

thanks

i need for that part to be completed before i move on

[honest stag]

died haflway lol

repalying

also

make this table lower, the maiden is having serious trouble shooting over it and just walks at you

i cheesed her with pistols

[blissful lion]

yeah ur right

[honest stag]

also i dont think i saw it before, love the killing mrt machine

also

this time around i'm not sure about|| the wendigo after the blue door||

it felt like i had no way to react in time before i realised it was even there and getting hit

maybe plce him further away?

or iunno maybe at the top of the stairs right after you exit the room?

fuck

aight i'll lower it down to i can take it

[blissful lion]

oh you were on cm

[honest stag]

i wasnt supposed to?

[blissful lion]

idk i play on icti

[honest stag]

ah ok it's aight

i do too lol

i just test maps assuming people play cm

[blissful lion]

yeah ig its fine for base maps when youre good at the game

but you know, no saving

[honest stag]

true dat

that's also why i play them in the middle of the road difficulty

it's aight the map is good i dont mind replaying it a couple time

s

[blissful lion]

is the combat ok?

im sorry about the intoxigator

[honest stag]

i didnt reach it yet i think

the part that felt a little bs is the dropdown right after the explosion

[blissful lion]

oh i understood you were done

[honest stag]

i got swarmed bad by the goats and the scarecrow

i was very conservative with my shotty ammo but i only like had like 4 shells so i managed by using 2 ssg blasts

if it werent for that i'd be dead earlier

but anyway i died after the yellow key pickup

didnt expect shit to spawn

[blissful lion]

sorry

should i spawn like 2 small monsters and then more seconds later?

[honest stag]

maybe just have 2 small ones and postpone the bigger ones ?

for another room

[blissful lion]

?

[honest stag]

actually

lemme finish the map and i'll tell you for sure

[blissful lion]

k

[honest stag]

currently breaking every single chair to get free armor

yea the parking lot sequence is too much

like, too much

very cramped with a shit ton of enemies, both ranged and melee

imo

[blissful lion]

really?

i find the dinning room harder

[honest stag]

well i did it last time by accidentally baiting a ton of goats in the stairs and blasting them with the ssg

this time i couldnt do it

[blissful lion]

i gotta replay the garage then

just noclip to yellow door

[honest stag]

gon do that

done

was that the end of the map then>

for now at least

[blissful lion]

for now

[honest stag]

got it

[blissful lion]

[blissful lion]

ok now postpone?

[honest stag]

how about they show up in this room?

it's not really used anyway

and it's on the path to the yellow door

[blissful lion]

theres 2 enemies there after you get the key

[honest stag]

ah shit

[blissful lion]

and its smaller

is only the second part in garage the problem?

[honest stag]

i'd say both

[blissful lion]

damn

can you say exactly what?

[honest stag]

too cramped with too many enemies at once i think

just placing a bit less would fix it i think

[blissful lion]

k

do u think if you were able to save there wouldnt be a problem?

[honest stag]

yea easily

[blissful lion]

then thats zomibes problem

jk

ill change it a little

and parent a trigger_once for that wendigo

also do u think the dinning room needs another restroom?

like where that scuffed door is rn

[honest stag]

it's good as-is

i didnt even notice

[blissful lion]

k

thanks

[short solar]

custom dusk map with a focus on horror

[blissful lion]

except theres only like 50 buzzes

and mine will be the best

[honest stag]

remove "custom"

[short solar]

i really just want to see more maps with a combat or even set piece focus, dusk's horror is great but i don't want to get spooped all the time

[blissful lion]

set piece is what?

[honest stag]

all maps are combat oriented, the horror is just an added atmosphere touch

there are no maps without some focus on combat

[blissful lion]

mine has pretty tight combat

[honest stag]

plenty have set pieces too

[blissful lion]

also what i have planned for the end should be more memorable than most base maps

[short solar]

yeah but like, the aesthetic is the thing, i want to see some more of the other aspects of dusk's aesthetic, not just the stuff that makes for good horror

[honest stag]

just because a map is horror doesn't mean it's trying to simulate specificalyl dusk's horror

[blissful lion]

what else does dusk have thats not horror

[honest stag]

examples - shadow of strelok, sinner's trial, insomnia

[short solar]

the first 3 custom dusk maps i played all had a horror focus, a red skybox, and were dark as fuck

[blissful lion]

definitely not candy and kittens and rainbows

cope

[honest stag]

also, define "horror" and you'll get totally different maps fitting the category

[blissful lion]

also what is a set piece?

is the car a set piece?

[honest stag]

like that car trap you have

yea

[short solar]

ok uuuuhhh e2m2 type maps

[honest stag]

or my trap puzzle

not a lot of maps are trying to emulate that actually

[blissful lion]

what about the explosion and the room with collapsed floor?

[honest stag]

imagine it like a quake map
you fight, explore and there's some dark areas sprinked in

there isnt exactly a focus on walking around trying to be spooky in any that i can remember

[short solar]

well then i guess i just want some variety in the look and feel, a lot of the maps felt a bit same-y

[blissful lion]

yeah its either spooky or combat

what do you suggest

[honest stag]

likely because a lot of maps are made by first-time mappers, and by using dusk's default textures you really only get the dusk feel

[short solar]

i'd like to see more snowy maps that would be neat

[honest stag]

whenever a mapper introduces more custom stuff, it becomes a lot more distinctive

[short solar]

not a lot of them use the daytime skybox

[blissful lion]

sure

[honest stag]

snowy maps are hard to make because of a lack of snowy texture packs imo

[blissful lion]

the snow could get boring

[honest stag]

easier to find literally anything else

also there are snowy maps

at least 2-3

[short solar]

hence why i said "more"

[honest stag]

that'd just feel like it's been overdone imo

pretty specific theme for dusk

[short solar]

i also kinda want more of the episode 3 evil castles and stuff

[honest stag]

oh boy oh boy lol

[blissful lion]

yeah castles are cool

vriska is making a really cool town

[honest stag]

enclave, dusk summer jam, several winter jam maps

i have 2 maps wip

[blissful lion]

idk how the combat is gonna play but the texture work is great

[honest stag]

one is a town, other is extention of my previous egypt map

[short solar]

actually i just that of something: would it be possible to make like, a space themed map

[honest stag]

also duskstein

oops

wrong reply sry

depends
if you're just walking around a spaceshit without any antigravity-like bs - easily

...spaceshit

i'm keeping it

but then you'd have to consider

in space, what kind of enemies would you see and what kind of weapons would you use?

you can retexture guns, maybe even remodel enemies

[short solar]

space station made up of erebus reactor escher labs and neobabel assests with this skybox

[honest stag]

or could grab a custom outer space skybox

and spaceship futuristic tex

[short solar]

nah, i like the idea of only using the default assets to make something new

[honest stag]

suit yourself, you're not the only purist here then lol

[short solar]

NO WAIT

LAVA CASTLE IN SPACE

[honest stag]

then again, by doing that you'll have to use farmland/magic enemies in space

goats welders and mages and shit

[short solar]

Yes, and i'm okay with that cause i think it's funny

[honest stag]

tbh yes

[short solar]

also i think some enemies could pass for an alien-sci-fi aesthetic

[honest stag]

mayhaps

[short solar]

like this fucker

[honest stag]

scientist i guess maybe

welder spaceman

[blissful lion]

hello ive taken youre advice and ill be a little more creative

this is the new wip map

[honest stag]

CRUELTY SQUAD TEX

based

[blissful lion]

can we make some cs maps together at some point

for dusk

[honest stag]

i actually wanted to with my pal

we were too busy to get it up and running

[blissful lion]

well call it cruelty dusk

[honest stag]

little imsim map with a target to kill

[blissful lion]

in dusk?

you wanted?

or for cs

[honest stag]

yea

for dusk

lemme find it

[blissful lion]

i suggested that already

like like we could get more people and each does one map

and someone can retexture enemies and weapons to look like in cs

[honest stag]

there

we were discussing it before that

anyway that sounds cool but man i'd need to finish my egypt project first

[blissful lion]

ive got a map to finish too

and im not too sure about making new maps until theres an update

[honest stag]

a lot of mappers got stuck on that and were left hanging for a long long time

so i'd say go for it

[blissful lion]

ok epic new map finished

[honest stag]

honestly tho? cs maps would be pretty easy detail/lighting wise

[blissful lion]

tbh i might do cs

[honest stag]

which are always the biggest hiccups

[blissful lion]

yeah

[honest stag]

so like
no details OR lighting lol

[blissful lion]

i think cs maps just have light in worldspwan

[honest stag]

yea, aside from those dark areas

[blissful lion]

details can be dumb and not too detailed

[honest stag]

like gambling machines and shit

[blissful lion]

and you prolly dont need to worry about being realistic

[honest stag]

water won't look weird cuz everything is fullbright omg

[blissful lion]

lmao

when i finish this ill maybe do like a cs bank

while i wait for fog so i can make my next cool map

it could be lower 2

[honest stag]

i have seen lower 2 with my own very eyes

truly great map

[blissful lion]

how finished it is?

[honest stag]

not sure cuz i don't know how much veven planned for it

but it's a lot

iunno if he's finishing it

[blissful lion]

maybe it can be lower 3

its gonna start the same way lower ended

and its gonna be deep

like literally

also

pretty easy

[crimson patrol]

Based Cs textures

[high magnet]

Oh shit

[blissful lion]

i replaced the intoxigator with a horror

should i recolor it too?

[honest stag]

dont see why not

[blissful lion]

k

is it just lightproxy?

[honest stag]

Yes

[blissful lion]

it doesnt work

[sharp trail]

Guys how do you make a map

it's not a question

[honest stag]

how are you doing it

[blissful lion]

a green light, under it a func_detail with a targetname

then somewhere else the horror with lightproxy

[honest stag]

odd, 1 moment

i'll test it

try placing an entity, like a chair

it works for me

like this -

btw the light won't change as the targetname entity is moving

it'll be blue even if i move the chair out of the blue light

[blissful lion]

k, thanks

kinda bad tho

[honest stag]

maybe red?

or yellow?

[blissful lion]

ill try

so it has to be an unity object?

[honest stag]

doors work too

that way the light is dynamic

like, if the door moves into a lit up area, an entity lights up too

and as it moves back, it fades out again

i can show it in action too, 1 moment

[blissful lion]

disco monster

[honest stag]

sry for the sound at first lol

also forgot i made this parking truck

"""parking"""

[blissful lion]

func_door_rotating?

[honest stag]

door which is parented to a rotating door, then timed and speed adjusted to make it seem like it's trying to park

it took way more effort than it looks thanks to the damn rotating door

never really used it

[blissful lion]

wait so moving doors can get parented to rotating doors?

[honest stag]

as well as other doors, which can make diagonal vertical movement

but there are problems

[blissful lion]

i tried it and it only wokred if the parented door had a speed of 0

[honest stag]

like making them actually work in tandem by correctly getting the direction, length and speed of both doors

actually the truck is also breakable, sorry

ehre's how i did it

button connects to a rotating door, then the rotating door activates a func_door
the breakable is parented to both of them at the same time

super fucky to get everything right in terms of speed duraton and all that stuff

[blissful lion]

thats possible?

i tried to do that

give 2 entities the same targetname

didnt work

[honest stag]

i guess i said it wrong actually, the thing is so confusing i'm getting mixed up myself

i made it quite a while ago

[blissful lion]

so a door parented to a func_rotating

[honest stag]

yup, which is activated by a button

the rotating door is parenting the door that it activates

[blissful lion]

cool targetnames

[blissful lion]

you can skip texture the doors that just move other stuff

that for a light?

[honest stag]

i can, but it's a testing map so i just wanted to have them visislbe to see how exactly they act

yet, sunlight to be specific
it's way easier to direct sunglight this way instead of using _sun_mangle

[blissful lion]

ok

i made the horror purple

[honest stag]

neat, diseased horror

[blissful lion]

sadly it cant have a bossname

did you see what the intoxigator was named?

[honest stag]

replace the intoxigator's model with a horror, be based

also i didnt notice, no

[blissful lion]

i changed it cuz lighting

also bad boss

[blissful lion]

new version

i only removed 2 enemies cus i played it and it wasnt that hard

[honest stag]

Keep in mind that you're not playing the map for the first time

You know what's coming

[blissful lion]

yeah ik

ill make some delay between teleports in the ambush

which monsters do i teleport first?

fodder or heavier?

[honest stag]

Personal opinion - i hate when monsters teleport in mid-fight

A lot

[blissful lion]

its not mid fight

at start of the fight

[honest stag]

Yea i don't like it like that
I want to see and asses the whole situation at once

Imo

[blissful lion]

i really want that fight there

cuz the first part you can just cheese from the staircase

do i give you the superhot powerup there?

[honest stag]

Unsure

That'd help tho

[blissful lion]

i changed some time between teleports here and added more health pickups

[blissful lion]

in this one they all teleport one by one and i feel like its fair

[blissful lion]

also im gonna start the combat music there so that might help?

[blissful lion]

func_wall_toggle works btw

def wouldnt help me with the explosion set piece

of course you can parent stuff to it

[blissful lion]

when you come back from the shadow realm you are a completely different person

[honest stag]

wow, we had support for that?

[crimson patrol]

what the hell?

[gritty forge]

tf?

[honest stag]

did you seriously parent the fucker to a toggle wall and actually send him to the shadow realm

that's amazing

[crimson patrol]

whats happening in the video

[honest stag]

it's incredible he even came back

i ASSUME he just parented the poor mage to a func_wall_toggle and turned it off and back on

[blissful lion]

yep

[honest stag]

yea figures

[blissful lion]

i think you can do that with breakables too

and if you parent something to a door thats a point entity that something never appears

[gritty forge]

reading text in maps
scaled down a 512x512 texture onto a 16x16 face

DUSK library when

[blissful lion]

what do you think about a brush that shoots welder's fireballs at you?

[foggy creek]

Cant wait to read a novel in a dusk map

[crimson patrol]

gonna copy all of the messages here and then make a texture out of it, then make a map around it

[blissful lion]

ok so i have same 2 func_illusionary each parented to 2 same doors set to starts open

but 1 illusionary is in the correct place (open) and the other is in the place its in .map, but its still moves in the same direction as the other

[honest stag]

Not sure i follow
2 separate setups that are working together even tho they shouldn't?

Is 1 illusionary in the wrong position?

[blissful lion]

the opposite

they should work the same (with a delay)

so lets say the illusionary make a door

in the first one, the door at the start is open, as it should be, and when you activate it it closes

second one is closed and when you activate it it doesnt open, but moves in the same direction it should when closing

[honest stag]

Might sound stupid but try just making the part that doesn't work again

[blissful lion]

i copied the door and parented a new brush to it and it worked as the second (wrong)

so ill redo the door ig?

[honest stag]

Yea

[blissful lion]

its that floating button all over again

[blissful lion]

yeah i made the door again and it works now

[blissful lion]

just skipped 1110 faces

[blissful lion]

vis doesnt do anything rn, right?

[honest stag]

Yes

[blissful lion]

so i dont have to run it at all in the compiler

[honest stag]

Yu

Yup

Just tick it off until the time comes

[blissful lion]

man does bouncing lights run faster on a sealed map

[honest stag]

Lights in general are faster on a sealed map

Much less work when your pc doesn't have to lightmap all the outside faces

[blissful lion]

yeah

what do you think about a brush that shoots welder's fireballs at you?

or any other projectile

[honest stag]

Would be neat to have

Traps galore

[blissful lion]

youll have to destroy it

[honest stag]

there's the destructable fireball trap already in place, do you mean something like it?

[blissful lion]

yeah, maybe different projectiles

but i will still need to use it

because of the very funny mechanic

and different looking

[gaunt aspen]

dusk hd models when

[honest stag]

Sooner than you think

[gaunt aspen]

nice

[blissful lion]

so i think im gonna go with welder's fireballs

sadly boneballs dont want to attack the fireballs shooter

[honest stag]

Boneballs are just
There

What a weird enemy

Borderline useless imo

[blissful lion]

just scary jank

[blissful lion]

i just spent like a half an hour fixing what i thought was a compiler issue, but it was just that moving brush i put there earlier

[crimson patrol]

boneballs are basically ambient

[blissful lion]

my map will literally be just set pieces with parented brushes from now on

[muted glacier]

Ran my compiler with Vis one time. Made me sick to my stomach. No leaks and it still took 14000 seconds

[gaunt aspen]

Hits like a grandma

damage It does with the skulls is so weak

[honest stag]

it can't even fly properly in the sdk

just... floats and wobbles around with no gravity when shot

[blissful lion]

it shouldnt have gravity

it acts as a ball with no gravity or any air friction

[blissful lion]

does trigger_hurt hurt enemies?

ok i think it doesnt

gas can time

[honest stag]

Probably hurts their feelings tho

[honest stag]

Are you trying to instakill an enemy?

If so, you can telefrag them with either another enemy or a prop that goes in the same place where they teleport/stand

[blissful lion]

oh right

do the just have to be touching

or like precisely in the same spot

sadly the welder's death explosion sound is really loud

oh its so jank

[honest stag]

Touching is enough

[blissful lion]

theres like a 32 unit clip between the welder and the teleporter

but when i telefrag him he still gets teleported

[ancient depot]

If you want some jank

wait until you notice the animation speeds being subtly wrong in the SDK currently

Like the mage's idle/walk animation

[honest stag]

I FUCKING KNEW IT

[ancient depot]

It's a problem with the IQM files themselves

Moreso than the SDK itself

[blissful lion]

the welder walks and shoots at the same time

[honest stag]

i did notice something wrong with them while looking at blends and my ported iqms

Fuck

[blissful lion]

monsters getting stunned and still attacking is really painful

ok i think im gonna share this version soon

its really cool, but a little proof of concept

[blissful lion]

ok parenting stuff to doors that are set to start open doesnt work

[blissful lion]

theres no way to break the flashlight, right?

[honest stag]

nope

[honest stag]

oh my god this took fucking AGES but im proud
i also cant use it anywhere unless i really fuck around

but u know what? i dont care it's pretty

pretend there's a sound effect of mechanical doors like in half life

[ancient depot]

yooo

it's like that one platform at the start of doom 3

[honest stag]

yup

this took literal hours

[blissful lion]

what exactly took that long?

[honest stag]

the adjustments of the rotating doors
they have a whole 3 axis they can rotate around, and it's not imeddiately clear which is the one you need

the origin points between the doors are a whole nother story
and the way they are actually placed makes it a nightmare to adjust even a little bit

also speed and distance

[blissful lion]

isnt speed and distance of them all the same

[honest stag]

placing the first 2 doors and getting them right was the part that took hours

then i adjusted it and copypasted

[blissful lion]

isnt distance in degrees?

[honest stag]

it is, but "distance" is the property that also dictates which axis it rotates around

[blissful lion]

isnt that spawnflags

[honest stag]

i guess i said that wrong actually
it is a spawnflag, but i had to figure out how to make it rotate in the direction i need

like, to the left and not to the right

it was mostly origin point fuckage and trying to make the 2 opposite doors allign

i kept going back and forth changing minor stuff and testing testing testing

[blissful lion]

ah

[honest stag]

and i cant even use this anywhere really lol

[blissful lion]

f

[honest stag]

im not holding jump in this clip

jump map part? dunno

[short solar]

are there any movement maps for dusk yet, ya know like bhop maps, surf maps, rivet jumping maps

[honest stag]

Yes a couple

Rivet jumping, both of them

Actually there's one "deathrun" concept map where you just jump over fireballs like you're mario

And someone made a parkour map a couple years ago which i probably still have sonewhere

Altho it wasn't released i think

It's very cool mechanically but i think it wouldn't be right to publish

[short solar]

imagine a duskworld surf server

if i ever get around to making that dusk map i've always wanted to make (lava factory in space do not steal) i was thinking about using this as the music

[blissful lion]

ah yes, the production of molten rocks in space

cool music btw

i wish i had some for my map

[short solar]

just wanted to be clear about something: does dusk use stems for it's music?

[honest stag]

send a save file png zom

i wish to lay my eyes upon it

[blissful lion]

im confused

[ancient depot]

I'll let you see one when the patch is out

Like a surprise

[honest stag]

shieet

[blissful lion]

oh so the system is not the one we have

[ancient depot]

Nah

The PNG one is part of the proper SDK

[blissful lion]

it isnt broken anymore too?

[ancient depot]

The system you guys have now is only broken because it was written in like 2 days and is a hacky mess lol

This one is a proper save system integrated into the game

[blissful lion]

cool

now just hope all the other bugs are fixed

at least a lot of them are fixed in the new base dusk ver

[honest stag]

the only bug that really makes things miserable is the navmesh thing

imo

[ancient depot]

Yeah the new update is a lot more stable, since it's well, the actual rewritten version

But that's also why it's taking so long lol

[blissful lion]

will it break old maps?

[ancient depot]

Some of them, potentially

but I have a tool I've been working on that automatically upgrades them

Both the .map files and the .bsp files

[honest stag]

the .maps will need an upgrade? any examples of what would need to change in .maps

[blissful lion]

func_clip?

[ancient depot]

Just stuff like entity changes

Like a map right now could be relying on a bug or something

Or some kind of inconsistency in how the SDK currently implements func_door etc

[blissful lion]

yeah but you cant know that

[honest stag]

got it

[ancient depot]

the upgrader would add extra properties to those to say "use the old behaviour"

[blissful lion]

oh so just all entities that got changed?

[ancient depot]

yeah

[honest stag]

also what's wrong with func_clip? well aside from the fact that its a dusk-specific thing

[blissful lion]

the only thing that could be significantly changed

[ancient depot]

As for save editing in the new update, you could use any PNG chunk editing tool

[blissful lion]

since other stuff is from quake/half life

[ancient depot]

Since it's just some text data inside the PNG

Similar to an .ent but not quite

[short solar]

just to be clear, is this new update gonna fix custom maps running like ass

[ancient depot]

For the most part, yes

[blissful lion]

dont they run like ass because of the dusk models?

[ancient depot]

Depending on your specs a huge map like ad_sepulcher might chug a bit still

Nah they run badly for a number of reasons currently

[blissful lion]

whats ad_sepulcher

[honest stag]

big quake map

[ancient depot]

The largest Quake map ever made

[honest stag]

from arcane dimensions

[short solar]

i tried playing vertigo city once i think i saw smoke coming out my computer

[ancient depot]

The BSP is like 50mb

[blissful lion]

oh

mine is just like 12

i did some nasty brushwork recently, which im gonna copy, so i hope it affect performance

[honest stag]

i havent really seen brushes affect performance to any significant degree thus far

it's always the enemy counts and dyniamic lights

[blissful lion]

oh cool

i would upload the new version today but i have to fix stupid parenting doors

[ancient depot]

What should affect performance the most currently is the number of unique textures, the number of enemies, the number of dynamic lights and the complexity of the lightmap

The number of entities in general can also poorly affect performance at the moment

[honest stag]

number of unique textures? really? huh

[ancient depot]

Yeah, the game needs to split geometry by texture and lightmap

[short solar]

hey speaking of unique textures what do you think of this grass texture i "made"

[ancient depot]

For reference, on a PC with a 2080 and 32 GB of RAM, ad_sepulcher can chug to like 10 fps if enough splits are made (eg, if I tell the game to split lightmaps by 256x256 instead of the current 2048x2048)

but basically more unique textures = potentially more splits

[honest stag]

i am currently using 190+ unique texutres in my map

fuck

[blissful lion]

if youre actually gonna use it u need to know its gonna be downgraded color-wise

[ancient depot]

That's not a bad number

[honest stag]

hasnt noticed performance chugging tho

ah ok

[ancient depot]

Think like, thousands

[honest stag]

ok yea then it's not a problem

[short solar]

what do you mean

[honest stag]

color palette limitation

[blissful lion]

like 1000 differnet textures in the wad?

[short solar]

oh, well i don't mind that

[honest stag]

in the map itself used i think

[ancient depot]

Yeah, used in the map

Note that more textures doesn't always mean more splits

[blissful lion]

from the wad used in the map

[ancient depot]

It means more potential splits

[honest stag]

from what i understand it's the actual usage and not just including the wad

so if u use 20 out of 150 tex the 20 are the ones that count

[ancient depot]

yes

[blissful lion]

i meant like if you scaled 1 texture differently

[ancient depot]

nah that doesn't add to the count

[blissful lion]

would it still count as the same texture?

ok

this is for lighting?

[ancient depot]

yes it only applies to maps that are lit

[honest stag]

i was today years old when i found out that the using the scroll wheel whle in camera mode in TB changes your camera speed

holy fuck

[gritty forge]

god, must have taken forever to match keys

[honest stag]

i could have used it so many times

[gritty forge]

endless targetname hell

[blissful lion]

isnt it right click + scroll

[honest stag]

yea right click to be in camera mode

cant belive i''ve been using tb for over 2 years now and found this only now

[blissful lion]

how do i make brushes ignore the lighting around them?

[honest stag]

wdym by that?

like have their own light level?

[blissful lion]

yeah

[honest stag]

well you could use _minlight on a brush entity for example

which would give it a minimum light level

[blissful lion]

like to be completely dark even if theres a light next to it

[honest stag]

hmmm

[blissful lion]

cus minlight is not that bright

[gritty forge]

_lightignore n

on a brush model, like detail or group

[blissful lion]

whats n

[gritty forge]

variable for 0 or 1

[blissful lion]

door?

[gritty forge]

1 makes a model receive minlight only, ignoring all lights / sunlight. Could be useful on rotators / trains.

[blissful lion]

so 1 for ignroe

[gritty forge]

yeah

[honest stag]

oh right, that exists

[blissful lion]

what about 0

[gritty forge]

ig it would do nothing

no idea if it actually works, i've tried to use it on brush props and the lighting didnt seem completely flat like i wanted

it works good enough though imo

[blissful lion]

i need it cus im moving a door to a different room

[honest stag]

if you want to poke around in what is possible, check this out

http://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/doc/light.html

[gritty forge]

yeah

that page is really helpful

and it helps for doors if the lighting is somewhat similar all around

[honest stag]

i finally got the output folder to work

no more copypasting

[gritty forge]

the what

[blissful lion]

trigger_auto works okay?

[blissful lion]

new version

2 cool things added, more of a teaser to whats to come (and maybe a little proof of concept)

i hope its jaw-dropping

and now the map is sealed

the end right now is when you destroy the brush that shoots at you

[honest stag]

hahahah wow that is actually sick as fuck

the teleport was a lil bit noticable but its still neat

did you make the welder fire through friendlyfire with something?

and then blocked the friendlyfire target with a teleport?

as a guess

[blissful lion]

the fireballs shooter shoots him

[honest stag]

and he's pissed at it, neat

[blissful lion]

which part is cooler

[honest stag]

i like the illusion of the eye following you, neat effect

[blissful lion]

yeah

i would use a homing projectile but the only one is too op

[honest stag]

red mage?

that one?

[blissful lion]

yeah

[honest stag]

how did you invert the faces on the sphere if i might ask

[blissful lion]

jank

i extruded the bigger ones from 1 sphere brush

[honest stag]

i meant the initial sphere

[blissful lion]

?

[honest stag]

that being the inside faces are the visible ones

[blissful lion]

oh

[honest stag]

on the eye

[blissful lion]

its like 5 different entities

so i extruded the faces of an convex sphere

and made those extrusions illusionary and skipped all the other texture on them

[honest stag]

then skipped the outside ones?

yea damn that's neat

[blissful lion]

yeah

[honest stag]

really cool to see this map grow from 4 rooms like this

[blissful lion]

ik

[honest stag]

dear lord

[blissful lion]

its ungodly

prolly 95% of verticies on that are of grid

(which is 1)

so its like 2 illusionaries (that could be 1)

1 breakable

1 func_wall_toggle and another illusionary parented to that wall

[honest stag]

super neat stuff, good job

i hope it wont chug performace if you use them more

[blissful lion]

i def wouldnt use more than 10

i spammed those basic spheres everywhere in a test map, the compiling took long but pref wasnt bad

[muted glacier]

I made a pool table for an unreleased map, and all the pool balls and que were spheres that had literally hundreds of faces and sides, shrunk down realllllllly small, and when resizing them, crashed trenchbroom no less than 40 times. And when i did get it working and saved, loaded up dusk and looked at the pooltable; Instant 3 frames a second.

[blissful lion]

lmao

i think that my shperes have 128 faces

so you need to split them to work

but i dont actually use the full spheres iin my map

[honest stag]

One of my first maps had flowers in them

And that wouldn't be anything special but they were 0.125 grid flowers and each flowerpot had at least a dozen

Eventually my map stopped compiling

I also made a bowl by carving out a sphere

I crashed TB several times while making it

[gritty forge]

that sounds easy enough though

[honest stag]

I had like 3 weeks of TB experience

[gritty forge]

making a bowl

oh

[blissful lion]

ctrl shift k could be a disaster on a complex brush

[honest stag]

Yup

[gritty forge]

oh you actually used carve czg

[honest stag]

Lessons were learned that day

I found screenshots

Brings back memories

When we didnt have music implemented i replaced the sickle draw sound with an entire music track

And kindly asked the player to not use them cuz it would reset the music

We didn't have custom skyboxes so i slapped a big black box around the outside to pretend it's nighttine

[ancient depot]

It's awful hacks like that which motivate the addition of proper features

[honest stag]

lol

[gritty forge]

mandatory item pickups where their sound is ambience

changes ambience for the area u enter

[honest stag]

Oh and the lack of colored lighting (as well as lightmaps being fucked) made lighting things with candles common

And a short map chugged like hell

Bad times

Piss yellow default skybox tho 😩

[short solar]

@blissful lion you gonna upload your hospital map to steam when the workshop update drops?

[crisp raven]

I remember purposefully staying away from that map when I read about that jank...

[blissful lion]

yeah of course

[crimson patrol]

Dont make brush plants dont do it

Just make a texture for it

[blissful lion]

killtarget doesnt work?

[honest stag]

to my knowledge yea

[blissful lion]

it doesnt work

any idee how to break a loop?

[honest stag]

what kind of loop?

[blissful lion]

like i have 2 multi_managers triggering each other

[honest stag]

damn
hm

so you want it to break on a specific action? or a timer?

[blissful lion]

yeah

the first one

[honest stag]

and what are the multi managers doing? maybe there's a way to stop the action and not the managers specifically

[blissful lion]

triggering func_wall_toggle

point trigger_multiple?

[honest stag]

tough situation

shame killtarget isnt a thing

[blissful lion]

yeah

maybe moving trigger multiple?

a giant trigger multiple over the map that is parented to a door

the trigger triggers the door and multi_manager, then it moves away from the map and comes back to be triggered again

when i want to stop it, i make a really fast loop with multi_managers that triggers that door so it doesnt close

[honest stag]

or maybe parent it to a door that moves in opposite direction

with the same speed/distance

so they counteract each other

actually wait fuck

[blissful lion]

idk about parenting something to 2 things

wait

what if i send the multi_manager to the shadow realm

[honest stag]

i doubt it'll work but why the fuck not

maybe

[blissful lion]

nope

doesnt work

[muted glacier]

A loop? Think you could parent to doors or buttons to make a jank Func_train illusion? Like pistons going up and down or something?

[blissful lion]

yeah sure

[honest stag]

@blissful lion have you tested any more half life features that work? aside from func_wall_toggle

i need to add that shit to the fgd

actually imma just go over every func there is availible and see what works

[blissful lion]

lmao sure

wall toggle is in the first patch notes tho

[honest stag]

man

honestly considering a visit to a neurologist at this point

forgetting so much shit

[blissful lion]

do you know a hl1 mapping server to ask that?

[honest stag]

nah i've only been to quakemapping stuff
i just assumed we havent had that many HL features at all

i also dont think they'd know

[blissful lion]

yeah theres only wall toggle and multi_manager

[honest stag]

breakable too

[blissful lion]

and puskable

push

[honest stag]

rendermode/renderamt are half life too iirc

rotating door obv

[blissful lion]

what the difference between door rotating and just rotating

[honest stag]

No clue, but maybe it's rotating continuously?

[blissful lion]

does the second one even work

[honest stag]

i'll add it to the test map

just to be sure

[blissful lion]

google how to use it

[honest stag]

yup that's what im doin

for all of them

[blissful lion]

so you just added it in the fdg without knowing if it works?

[honest stag]

...we have it in the fgd?

[blissful lion]

yeah def

[honest stag]

we use an .fgd made for J.A.C.K as a base, i handled model porting and veven handled actual fgd lines and brush/point entities

at midpoint veven had to stop working on it and i took over, just added whatever was missing and assumed he managed to clean it up by the time he stopped

[blissful lion]

oh ok

[honest stag]

so i'm assuming func_rotating was just skimmed over

[blissful lion]

so theres also door_secret, idk if it works

[honest stag]

it works, but it only makes sense to use in quake

[blissful lion]

func_group and func_wall, idk what those do

and trigger_push i think doesnt work

[honest stag]

cuz in quake if you approach a locked door it says (door opens somewhere else)

so if you want a secret door to now show that but also be locked, you use func_door_secret

we saw no reason to remove it, maybe it'll be more useful later

[blissful lion]

ye but doesnt it move 2 ways

[honest stag]

that too

[blissful lion]

does that work

[honest stag]

unsure, i tested it like a year and a half ago
i dont think it does

but gonna slap it just in case it does

func_group is just to group up a bunch of brushes to move them around easier and stuff, similar to layers

func_wall is basically a dummy brush entity that just makes something a brush ent to my knowledge

difference between that and func_detail is that it can seal maps, while detail doesnt

also func_detail helps with VIS

lol func_conveyor just disappears

as well as _guntarget

[blissful lion]

wait when you trigger them?

[honest stag]

it doesnt appear in the first place

[blissful lion]

oh

[honest stag]

both

yea secret door doesnt do the lil push-in before moving

func_rotating doesnt seem to work
func_platrot doesnt either

also remembered that trigger_relay worked while testing

[blissful lion]

i think the patch notes say it should

relay

[honest stag]

ye it totally does, i remember now

havent really seen a use for it since multi_manager is a thing

actually i think it can send a specific trigger state to something, but i dont remember testing that

[blissful lion]

it can toggle or something

[honest stag]

only turn off, only turn on, or set to toggle

at least that's what it says

[blissful lion]

does that work?

[honest stag]

havent tested yet, im kinda busy with smth else

i dont see why it wouldnt tho

[blissful lion]

i think the patch notes say relay is just a copy of multiple for now

[blissful lion]

some bad geometry to block off parts of the level

[short solar]

are custom weapons doable yet

[honest stag]

Nope

[short solar]

can you change the stats of existing weapons

[honest stag]

No

[blissful lion]

how many eyes do you think i should put in my level?

[blissful lion]

like max

[honest stag]

4

[blissful lion]

i think ill put 6

3 on their own and 3 in the big room

now i gotta redo the lighting

[blissful lion]

?

[honest stag]

neat
i'd lightproxy the pickups to match the surrouding light tho

[blissful lion]

oh i think the color is the problem

rn is just white

should i make it red

[honest stag]

oh right you just had red textures all over

yea try it

might be too dark tho

[blissful lion]

i did 255 200 100

maybe more red