go to moddb
#dusk-modding
forest sedge
I already downloaded all that's on dusk's moddb. I'm searching this channel now.
cunning fulcrum
is there any idea as to when we might get scripting to the sdk?
ancient depot
No ETA yet
Scripting is a "When It's Done" scenario, we're focusing on the more important framework stuff first
tepid python
You can use clip textures for that but then the player goes through them aswell
still raptor
i think you can just use the rendermode and amount params on any brush
ancient depot
if a texture name begins with { then it will treat palette index 255 as transparent
rendermode and renderamt are for additional translucency on top of that
refer to any Half Life mapping tutorial for more info
alternatively you can wait for our wiki
acoustic hedge
sleek moat
I do hope it will be possible to put in custom enemies and weapons in the full SDK, so that proper TCs are possible. Blood remake in Dusk. I'd play that.
agile gust
once scripting is supported custom weapons and enemies is a reality 😄
ancient depot
It'd be a pretty shitty SDK if we never added support for custom enemies and weapons
Shouldn't even be a question that needs to be asked lmfao
onyx marten
Is blender suited to make a custom weapon for the sdk?
honest stag
i dont see why woudlnt it be
agile gust
ah
ancient depot
Custom models will be in .iqm format, with support for .mdl, .md2 and .md3 coming later
onyx marten
Ok cool, i dont know much yaknow
hard pollen
Why IQM and not GLTF?
ancient depot
GLTF is overkill because we wouldn't support like 90% of it
GLTF is a scene format more than a model format
hard pollen
Or some other format that's got decent support for exporting/importing.
ancient depot
IQM has excellent export support in Blender
ancient depot
Not an issue imo
hard pollen
Also you can't import without some other plugin.
ancient depot
Limiting ourselves to whatever formats Blender happens to support by default would be foolish
hard pollen
It's just a little disappointing after the Max Ax mod tools supported basically every format under the sun that's all.
ancient depot
That's because MaxAx uses TriLib which is a wrapper around AssImp
But TriLib is commercial so it blocks an open source release
ancient depot
I've been working on my own AssImp wrapper that we could use in the SDK but I'd rather have a small selection of formats we can support properly rather than needing to keep track of like 50
hard pollen
Eh that makes sense I guess.
But it'd just be nice to have a more widely used format because I kinda get scared downloading random .py files.
ancient depot
I may consider GLTF as it's the least terrible of the transfer formats but IQM will remain our main model format
sleek moat
👌
onyx marten
for some reason the textures are all black at a certain distance. seems only to be for a specific .wad, any ideas why that is/ how to fix it?
they look fine ingame
mortal narwhal
oh
is this a custom wad?
tl;dr textures "lower their resolution" the farther away you are from them
and that data is stored in the balls .wad
its called mip mapping iirc
the mipdip texture tool will generate mips for you
though its an ancient program
@onyx marten
ancient depot
@mortal narwhal We don't use the mip maps from the wad
Or rather, mip maps at all
A deliberate choice as at that texture resolution, Unity seems to change mip levels too soon, resulting in massive blurring
gritty forge
Unity hits me with them blurs
unique ocean
I don't know were to report it but Jump pads have this issue where they are never lighted regardless of the lights around them
gritty forge
try lifting it off the ground a little
cus it should grab whatever light value is on the ground under it
unique ocean
Also my func_doors are being screwy
Doesnt matter how much I change the lip
It only goes down a certain amount and doesnt change
honest stag
that's odd
Higher amout is smaller distance
Negative is bigger
unique ocean
Whats odd though is that even if I set it to zero it still doesnt change
To top off my confusion if I go ahead and make a new door it works perfectly fine
gritty forge
let me look it up
this.Bounds.size - Vector3.one * this.Lip
so this is the amount it moves
so size of the door - Lip basically
unique ocean
So I may have to go to decimals
gritty forge
try -2
unique ocean
Well that did something
honest stag
Well yeah told ya
Negative values make the door go further
unique ocean
ah wait
I changed the angle
it appears that despite how much I change the door's lip negative or positive nothing happens
gritty forge
does it not move at all?
honest stag
That's real odd
unique ocean
The problem is that it moves, but despite how much I change the lip value it doesnt change the distance
I may have to concede and try to workaround
AHA
that works!
honest stag
so how did you do it
unique ocean
I ended up spliting the door into two and bound both of them to one trigger
The door always lowered by it's full length despite the lip value
so I just added another below it and made it look as if it was only one
not a "fix" by any means but hey it works
ancient depot
@gritty forge that's not the formula it uses anymore, since that was wrong
Er, misread
That's only part of it rather
Origin + Vector3.Scale(MoveDir.Abs(), Vector3.Scale(MoveDir, Bounds.size - (Vector3.one * Lip)));
but originally it was something closer to only Bounds.size - (Vector3.one * Lip) which was wrong
gritty forge
I thought it would be harder to understand if I posted the full line @ancient depot :)
ancient depot
Probably, what you said afterwards size of the door - Lip explains it perfectly
cosmic copper
Hey. Does anyone know how to get semi-transparent textures like the trees or the chain fence to work properly?
ancient depot
We'll be putting out a new wad later that will fix those
However if you rename the texture so that its name begins with {, it should work
cosmic copper
ok. Black pixels are made transparent?
ancient depot
Palette index 255 is made transparent
cosmic copper
ok cool
ancient depot
That may or may not be black depending on the palette
cosmic copper
oh ok its a brownsh color in quakes pallet
gritty forge
@gritty forge OOF
cosmic copper
Is it at all possible, or will it be in the future, to have a platform move vertically and at an angle similarly the big freight elevator in half-life?
ancient depot
The answer to any "is X entity going to be added?" question is usually "yes" if it's from Quake or GoldSrc
In other words, yes
That would be the func_platrot entity
alpine depot
ok weird, my textures arent transparent even though they have the { wildcard at the beginning
ancient depot
do they use palette index 255 for the transparent pixels?
ancient depot
Depends on the palette
ancient depot
it'll be fixed once we put out the new dusk.wad later on anyway
alpine depot
agh
ancient depot
probably an issue with how the textures are added to the wad
you can fix it by importing the original trees.png texture into a custom wad using HLTextureTools or TexMex
cosmic copper
crap sorry darth. I saw that in the patch notes but I never bothered to check what it actually was
ancient depot
np
cosmic copper
quake palette 255 is a brownish color, not black.
so if that color is used on the trees that might be causing the weirdness
ancient depot
The cause atm is because we didn't have transparency support when MakeWad was written, so the way it writes out the palette indices for transparent pixels is wrong
Won't be hard to fix though, luckily
alpine depot
is there a way to import a whole folder into texmex? i already renamed basically every transparent texture to have { so hopefully i can like, drag and drop or something
ancient depot
Should be able to just ctrl+a and drag
ancient depot
Yeah, it doesn't accept PNG unfortunately
alpine depot
shiiiit
alpine depot
ok cool thanks
crystal lily
When do you think we're going to have the new dusk.wad?
honest stag
alpine depot
oh my god there was a fucking import button in texmex all along
it's midnight and ive been fighting with this software for like 15 minutes
OH YAY IT CRASHED AGGHH
still raptor
that weird overlapping thing is caused by a shader issue, we were talking over that before this patch, its still wip
basically anything that is fully transparent and not partially needs a different shader, or a specific render queue ordering because partially transparent objects have depth sorting issues
alpine depot
i was gonna make one myself but texmex has crashed twice already so i'll just wait for the new one
cobalt atlas
Didn't civvie say he was working on ripping the assets?
lament ore
@alpine depot you can use HLTextureTools and make a WAD3 if you don't wanna wait. HLTextureTools also allows you to manually override the transparent color.
toxic forge
@alpine depot it accepts PNG but you have to import it instead of drag and drop
ahh wait, my bad
was thinking about Wally
and just tested and Wally can drag and drop etc.
also SLADE can add textures to existing WADs
sadly you can't create new Quake wad from scratch (last time I tested)
lament ore
oi
WAD3 version of DUSK.WAD that has proper transparencies
Also deletes duplicates and things that obviously weren't intended (nor useful) as level textures
! NOTE THAT IF YOU USE THIS WAD, YOU NEED TO DISTRIBUTE IT WITH YOUR MOD SINCE FILENAMES ARE CHANGED !
ancient depot
And especially because it's a WAD3, no textures will be embedded in the BSP
So the WAD is necessary for properly loading the map in the first place
mortal narwhal
based func_bread at it again
lament ore
Someone's gotta do it 😤
lament ore
Tb does not support WAD3 no
honest stag
i think some people shoehorned it in though
lament ore
I don't think Quake supported transparency on func_wall anyway, although I'm sure if you manually added the keys and used a compatible texture it would work
But it'll be a bit of a pain working with transparency in tb suffice to say
honest stag
to be honest i cant really see what transparent textures cant be replaced by brushwork
unless you're making something really huge and/or dont want to be able to shoot through it
lament ore
Chain link fence?
honest stag
very much possbie with some copy paste work tbh
tb has the amazing repeatable commands thing too
lament ore
Yeah but like.........just using the texture is way easier lul
honest stag
it's easier but effort is cool
lament ore
Not to mention optimization, although that's not as important in Dusk
Compile times would get insane though
honest stag
lol yeah but it's alright
didnt stop people before
lament ore
to each their own
mortal narwhal
is there a way i can convert the wad3 to wad
honest stag
you can use some broad overlayed diagonal brushes to reach the same effect
you can probably unpack the textures
lament ore
There's also the matter of complex shapes that aren't easily made with brushes
But anyway
honest stag
and then make a wad with it
lament ore
@mortal narwhal extract and repack, or just open it in wally and paste it into a wad2
mortal narwhal
yeet
i went into wally and replaced all the blue background with the proper quake 255 color
also if you dont want your transparent brushes creating voids on the faces of touching brushes, turn the transparent brush into func_wall
honest stag
damn good job man
toxic forge
I don't think Quake supported transparency on func_wall anyway
vanilla no, modern engine does though. Last color (255) in quake palette is used for transparency, but in quake, additionally, transparent texture should start with "{" (similar how water starts with "*").
this works on MDL models too, color 255 for transparency
although DUSK probably will use IQM from what I heard
to be honest i cant really see what transparent textures cant be replaced by brushwork
You could, although if you use EricW tools, make it func_detail_wall or func_detail_fence, to avoid ridiculous amount of ugly splits on world geo.
idk if there is equivalent of that in hl compiler
regular func_detail will introduce splits anyway, just keep that in mind
regular func_wall will work too
mortal narwhal
@ancient depot Transparent texture on the bottom has a skip texture applied to one of it's faces, the other transparent texture is just that. They're both func_wall
ancient depot
Yeah, Scott mentioned before it's caused by a shader issue we need to fix
It's a tough problem
mortal narwhal
cool beans
ancient depot
I have some ideas but we'll see
lament ore
@toxic forge func_detail will only split other func_detail brushes of the same detail level, so if you don't want a func_detail to split another func_detail just change one of their detail levels.
toxic forge
in quake func_detail will split world geo too, it's just excluded from portal creation, to save time on VIS. It's different from what HL does.
here is a nice example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/464536104809398336/633044000575717407/unknown.png
lament ore
ah
toxic forge
left is func_detail right is func_detail_wall
so it's good to remember that when you use EricW Tools
honest stag
that's actually pretty cool thank you
honest stag
so like is there really need for it since we already have some on moddb and workshop is uhhhhh soon?
desert crane
yeah cuz not everyone will hav steem
and moddb is ancient
modio is the new moddb
same owners
honest stag
alrighty then
desert crane
also gives us more tools
we will officially support modio, moddb and workshop
for content
alpine depot
moddb is something indiana jones finds in one of the temples he explores
desert crane
lol
gritty forge
moddb is were I got all my cool half-life 2 mods
desert crane
lmao is that in your level
iron needle
@onyx marten can I steal that for twitter?
honest stag
we may have influenced something
iron needle
👍
long anchor
god i love this community
alpine depot
his smile can cast a rainbow that stretches across the entire world
and his accent!
THE ACCENT!
desert crane
I already stroleded it muhauauha
verbal peak
https://dusk.mod.io/
desert crane
if there's not like 10 mods on https://dusk.mod.io/ by the time I wake up
honest stag
you made it poolboy
you truly made it
desert crane
you're all getting no porridge
long anchor
what
iron needle
when Dave steals ur meme you know you've hit it big
onyx marten
lol
desert crane
crude cedar
desert crane
we've talked about it lol
cosmic copper
has anyone else had the problem with func_plat teleporting instantly instead of slowly lowering?
lament ore
@desert crane b-but dave-sama I only have the one map.....
deft frigate
HDUSK
lament ore
HDUSK NOW
vernal magnet
the world isnt ready for HDUSK
tawdry plank
lament ore
God I can't wait until the SDK is fully out and we think back to these early days of using the SDK like "how the fuck did we ever live without x and y"
mortal narwhal
how did i live without quicksaving
tepid kettle
unique ocean
Do you want it to be a toggelable button?
lament ore
@tepid kettle https://twhl.info/wiki/page/Tutorial%3A_Doors
check the "doors with button" part
alpine depot
oh god help i just nearly doubled the loading time for my map lol
lament ore
welcome to quake/hl mapping
Who was it that had that gravity change idea going on in one of their early maps? Was it you, @honest stag ?
acoustic hedge
https://www.moddb.com/mods/backwaters
Updated the map I was working on and still working on it!
Just wanted to give something out for now.
jank trees included
onyx marten
maybe I'm dumb but i only see the old version under files
tepid python
tip for the few people that have uploaded screenshots with their levels, use the + key 3 times to remove the hud
ivory magnet
👍
iron needle
sturdy tide
oh yeah there's a place to upload things now
tepid python
lament ore
@iron needle when's the deadline? I'll probably get my map done by tomorrow
iron needle
tonight soon
onyx marten
cosmic copper
https://dusk.mod.io/the-basilica-beneath heres my mod for the screenshot Saturday thing. I'd have to say the 3rd screenshot is my favorite
honest stag
@lament ore Ye, it wokred
iron needle
alpine depot
how do you check the number of vertices and brushes/etc in your map?
i want to make sure that im not going over any limit
which i probably am lmao
honest stag
the compiler tells ya
alpine depot
o
alpine depot
wow im cutting it close it seems
honest stag
ah, i can quickly upload my bunker thing and post a better screenshot for church
alpine depot
pretty much 110k/132k
big yikers
good thing im at the end of my map
do the limits vary between compilers or something?
i swear i saw different limits elsewhere
ancient depot
They do
iron needle
@honest stag yeah just lemme know
alpine depot
oh ok, so i guess it's possible to change the limits somehow?
ancient depot
Depends on what format you're compiling to
There are hard, unavoidable limits on Quake 1 and Half-Life BSP that are inherent in the format
If you use BSP2 (a variant of Quake 1 BSP) those are mostly no longer a problem
iron needle
yeah don't rush it. I'm sure we're gonna to plenty of promoting of maps and stuff lol
alpine depot
in the meantime have a robot- i mean, a crane
oh man what if the crane was the map's boss
it just gains sentience out of nowhere and smacks the player with the arm
iron needle
ooooh that looks really cool
iron needle
I still haven't had a chance to play a lot of these maps sadly
honest stag
i thought u posted this a long time ago lol
iron needle
might do a stream playing some of them at some point here
honest stag
i*
but thank you
a stream would be awesome honestly
i wish we had light styles
that place would go nuts on flickering lights
alpine depot
i want to be able to un-dusk-ify the graphics and just do the opposite of what the game was intended to be like
add in IRON SIGHTS
STAMINA
HEALTH REGEN
honest stag
a VERY wip map https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/670453745162649611/670657819053260810/37HY8SXe.png?width=893&height=502
alpine depot
woah
honest stag
i just really wanted to see how it looked with colored light
alpine depot
that looks so sinister
alpine depot
herobrine's mansion
honest stag
DUDE NO >:(
alpine depot
dude yes
honest stag
dont scrae me like that
alpine depot
dont look behind u... herobrian!
lapis hare
i want to be able to un-dusk-ify the graphics and just do the opposite of what the game was intended to be like
add in IRON SIGHTS
STAMINA
HEALTH REGEN
chaotic evil
alpine depot
and nausea-inducing headbob
oh and more tactical animations
shift to sprint- wait thats already a thing nvm
but you cant shoot when running! haha!
enemies are faster and can now jump between areas and also have suppressive fire
all projectiles are hitscan
all of them
lapis hare
honest stag
switch
honest stag
several
last talon
alpine depot
is there a way to make a func_breakable explode when it breaks?
ancient depot
Not supported yet
alpine depot
aww
i hope i worded that properly, i dont mean like, having the player blow it up with an explosion or anything
ancient depot
Yeah I knew what you meant
alpine depot
alright just clarifying
ancient depot
Here, have the current wiki page for func_breakable in the meantime:
Should serve as some rudimentary docs
alpine depot
i dont recall seeing laser or teleporter being used anywhere in dusk
ancient depot
teleporter is the effect that appears when something teleports
alpine depot
ohh
ancient depot
lazer is used by those projectile firing things
alpine depot
oh right
interesting
ooh i just noticed that with the factory_brick and factory_concrete textures, the brick is just concrete with a brick overlay on it
no wonder they look so nice together
honest stag
the jump map thing is probably better with god mode + infinite ammo, eh? @tepid python
also
add armor
diamonds
they really reduce rocket jump damage
tepid python
i mean you can but also all jumps can currently be done with just the available weapons and health
Most of them are supposed to be like "you can fuck up once and that's it"
And idk how many people can actually make the last jump
honest stag
i'm trying lol
alpine depot
grab your pitchforks if you want but i hate quake's HUH
verbal peak
tepid python
sound mods are already a thing huh, that's news
balmy thorn
For some reason I find it distracting because I recognize it as Trent Reznors voice (I think?)
harsh swift
it is
hence the picture
sounds nothing like him then but sounds a lot like him now
balmy thorn
Mhm
honest stag
alright i tried everything at this point, is the mortar timing too precise? @tepid python
tepid python
It's very precise yep
You can be good at the rivet + mortar part but you still need to have the perfect timing for it
I put a smiley there for motivation
harsh swift
why does dragging the volume sliders in sdk kill the fps
desert crane
looks like DuskMods.com is getting there, KEEP IT UP I SAID MORE MODS MORE MORE MORE SOUNDS, TEXTURES, GUIDES, MAPS
HUP HUP
high magnet
HUP
harsh swift
whoever made e1mwhat
honest stag
guides lol
honest stag
we cant add music yet
tepid python
Technically you can
honest stag
you can but it's fucky
desert crane
music sooon
honest stag
@tepid python had to use godmode at the last section, not enough hp :(
harsh swift
can you quicksave in these
honest stag
no
still raptor
oh interesting you went with trying to pogo
i fired a mortar straight up, rocket jumped, then detonated the grenade
tepid python
Whoa
still raptor
thats what i thought you were supposed to do lol
tepid python
Yeah the mortar straight up was the way i did it
honest stag
mortar can be exploded in yo face if you already fired a shot and clicked to explode it then fired another
harsh swift
minor nitpick
honest stag
so the delay on the explosion of the second shot is 0
harsh swift
but shouldnt framerate cap be in feel not look?
i guess it can work in either actually
alpine depot
i think i hold the record currently for longest loading time lol
like holy crap what did i do to make it so sluggish all of a sudden
harsh swift
how long
i tried it on a piece of shit once
like 5-6 minute load into the main menu
alpine depot
it takes like 5 secs for it to load load when it says "press any key" but before that it's like 30 secs
or longer i didnt time it
aw man i forgot func_breakable acts the same as func_door where enemies cant walk past it
i wonder if i could just push the guardian through where the func_breakable used to be using a func_door at like, lightning speed
ancient depot
That would be lightmapping
There's a Unity issue we need to solve manually to fix that
If you don't light the map I can almost guarantee that 30 sec thing will disappear
honest stag
it's the second map they made i believe by the way
second jump map i mean
or was that someone else
shit
basically there was another jump map
alpine depot
woo, map is DONE except for a few wonky things here and there
barren terrace
@tepid python did you use my dev texture wad? or did you just make one for the map?
alpine depot
is it possible to add a message to an enemy?
barren terrace
no
honest stag
???whaddyamean
like when they die?
alpine depot
like when they see you
barren terrace
i don't think so
honest stag
oh that's wonky, but i could see a fake one with a trigger in a spot where the enemy 100% of the times sees you
alpine depot
well the player can encounter the guardian in a plethora of angles so that wouldnt work
honest stag
i hope you reduced his health lol
alpine depot
reduced? nahhh
honest stag
cuz that thing is way too beefy imo
barren terrace
did we get proper sky lights as well?
alpine depot
i give plenty of ammo
barren terrace
damn i've been missing out
alpine depot
i give a backpack right befoire
honest stag
sunlight was a thing before
alpine depot
and a riveter with a few rivets to knock down his hp
barren terrace
no
barren terrace
it wasn't working properly
honest stag
i'm 100% sure it was though
i made the mistake of making sunlight without skybox brushes
and it didnt work
honest stag
??? which one
also the contrast is removed because i used a _sunlight2 key
it's not an entity
honest stag
it's _sunlight and _sunlight2 on worldspawn
barren terrace
well i'm a big ol' dumbass then
alpine depot
isnt sunlight2 more of an ambient skylighting?
honest stag
sunlight being the main one, sunlight2 is the ambient light to remove shitty contrast
barren terrace
well i'm gonna check this out tomorrow
i may just have done 5 hours of work for no good reason
trying to light up that arena
honest stag
also
dont forget _sun_mangle to determine at which angle _sunlight shines
i use 20 -35 0 for a sunset light
alpine depot
how do you make a secret again lol
honest stag
brush right click - create brush entity - trigger - secret
desert crane
based @honest stag
ancient depot
note the wiki is super preliminary rn, but we'll be adding to it as time goes on
honest stag
ancient depot
tepid python
@barren terrace the one i used was made by khreathor
steel nova
Hey got a question about modding dusk. Is there C# Scripting support or any form of Scripting support?
ancient depot
Not yet, that'll be coming later
steel nova
Ok thanks 🙂
iron needle
it's not atm
alpine depot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkitxdpplnx5htb/derailed.bsp?dl=0 Before I upload my radical map for the entire radical world to see, I'd appreciate it if you could check it out again and make sure everything seems nice and balanced, and most importantly, fun (and also radical)
funny how after i fix all the leaks and whatnot, the load times are basically thrice as fast
makes sense since if there was a leak, every brush would be rendered at once, and not just the visible faces
honest stag
well i added a trigger_secret page as a first attempt at making something
just figuring this out, sorry
alpine depot
oh shit i forgot about the other wad im using for proper transparency support i should've included that
someone else uploaded it earlier yesterday but thats a long way to scroll up
just gonna reupload it here to save some trouble
wait what the fuck how can i upload a 39 mb file
ancient depot
Leaks don't affect load times
alpine depot
oh really?
ancient depot
They affect compile times
alpine depot
huh, seems a bit backwards if you ask me
ancient depot
The reason the map takes so long to load is very likely to be the lightmaps, because the map is huge
alpine depot
feels like my map loaded faster after the leaks were fixed
ancient depot
And the way lightmaps are loaded right now is very inefficient
alpine depot
lol thats amazing
alpine depot
what does the -level 4 argument for vis do?
ancient depot
It's the complexity of the calculations that it uses to calculate the VIS
alpine depot
oh ok
ancient depot
Lower values are less accurate, but potentially (but realistically probably not) faster
high magnet
So I made a crop duster for my remake of DOOM's hangar
high magnet
Having it be a working vehicle would work great in a super open and non-linear map
Anyone know gm_fork from Garry's mod?
I'd imagine something like that
high magnet
Here's another one
honest stag
that looks awesome seriously
high magnet
Danke
alpine depot
that's amazing lol
fringe nymph
bsp2blender when
ancient depot
dunno why you'd want to load BSP specifically in Blender instead of MAP, considering BSP is intended to be the final format
unique ocean
Genuine question: Should I include a Big John secret in my level
still raptor
follow your heart
long anchor
we're not getting any porridge
honest stag
yeah more people uploaded mods, both in here and on moddb, it's just the 3rd place they have to upload stuff to lol
and then workshop will be a thing, but that place will have way more probably
still raptor
mod.io is the first real "official" place we want to endorse uploading mods
we have control over the page etc so it makes everything way nicer
high magnet
Also I'm making a .map file with like a dozen brush based planes so you can use them in your maps
Giant fucking cargo plane incoming fyi
long anchor
Also I'm making a .map file with like a dozen brush based planes so you can use them in your maps
not all heroes wear capes
it would be great if i could actually see your planes
my inet is super slow these 2 days
lament ore
@honest stag how'd you do that big green ball thing that was inside the gravity chamber or w/e? Was that an object or was it brushwork?
lament ore
@ancient depot I'm going way past the limits in my bsp. Those are enforced by the original compiler sets and by the engine, but if you use a limit removing compiler set (e.g. Sven Co-op's fork of ZHLT) and a limit removing engine (e.g. Sven Co-op, Xash3D, Dusk) you can ignore the limits of "standard" HLBSP.
ancient depot
I was mainly referring to the inherent limits caused by some values being stored as 16-bit in the file
Rather than the artificial limits imposed by the engine and compiler
lament ore
Ah
Tbh you can make a pretty friggin massive map even with those hard limits. Unless you're trying to make an open world mod I doubt a lot of people would run into an issue :v
@honest stag thx bby
honest stag
lament ore
Let's just make an OpenBSP format that uses 64-bit values for everything and doesn't afraid of nobody Darth
ancient depot
lmao
lament ore
It would be cool to have a full set of "open" Quake-like formats like IQM
I can't fuckin WAIT until Dusk Co-op comes out
Sven Co-op 2.0 baybee
lament ore
OH FUCK YEAH PIZZA YA SAN
high magnet
YES
lament ore
@ancient depot can I write a JACK page under tools on the Dusk wiki
still raptor
We used pizza-ya san as a test map for the sdk
also im not sure it really belongs on the wiki
high magnet
Y-you did?
still raptor
yes we did
high magnet
lmao can we see
spiral nexus
can we have barrelsofun as the console command for suicide when console becomes available /s
still raptor
i mean you can just load the map now
fun fact the cat npc gets replaced by a cowgirl
even the sinks technically work
spiral nexus
let's start HL1 meme map remake project to Dusk
Hazardous Dusk 2, 🅱️ig leathernecks and Pizza-ya Dusk
lament ore
@still raptor I mean I'm sure there's gonna be people who are interested in making DUSK maps but have never worked with Quake/HL and don't know where to start. A JACK page to help them get it configured would be nice. Obv a TB page too but I'm not qualified for that :v
although maybe it should wait until the things like the wad are available somewhere other than the discord
gritty forge
real quick how do I make a new page on the wiki
still raptor
it might be included in a tutorial stub, but right now it is a new blood dev wiki more than a generic modding wiki
lament ore
kk
spiral nexus
watch how Dusk Wiki will become better resource for HL1 mapping than Valve dev community
still raptor
it will be
ivory magnet
Ye the page went up less than half a day ago heh
still raptor
we plan to have the documentation be pretty comprehensive
so yeah, we'll probably have pages for external tools like trench, jack, etc
but were documenting the things we have direct control of first
also wiki is found here Jakob
gritty forge
Yeah but like I cant see a new page button
ivory magnet
It's not open to everyone at this point
gritty forge
Heck
still raptor
if you create an account
we can add you
so you can create pages
in fact zomb may have set it up for autoconfirm
lament ore
@spiral nexus unfortunately a lot of old HL1 mapping knowledge has disappeared from the net over the years 😢
spiral nexus
Yeah
Dev community is really deserted and other websites like Sven-Coop pages are either abandoned or have bare minimum of information
it'd be great if there was a proper hub for HL1 modding
still raptor
well, hopefully we can turn that trend around
spiral nexus
every time Google makes me end up on twhl there is some kind of flamewar going on in the 10-years-old forum post
still raptor
with the help of you guys contributing of course
gritty forge
I made an account 
spiral nexus
I guess I could create an account, though I am not that knowledgeable of HL1 either
still raptor
I SAW
gritty forge
also -2 angle doesn't work on doors?
gritty forge
oh boi
still raptor
just gonna click block real quick
still raptor
oh man i hate how that looks compared to the actual script
gritty forge
well I don't exactly have those
gritty forge
Why not now™️
still raptor
well not getting sued is nice
gritty forge
cus theres still a bunch of dusk stuff in it?
still raptor
theres a bunch of stuff that we cant legally open source
the save system, stuff like that
gritty forge
ah okey
lament ore
New fgd. This one is based on Half-Life's fgd since most GoldSRC features are going to (eventually) be supported. This version still uses Quake placeholder models for TB compatibility; I'll release one that uses Half-Life placeholder models soon since that gives me a lot more variety to use
--EDIT:-- new TB hotfix version a couple messages down, don't DL this one.
gritty forge
thanks func_bread very cool
lament ore
also trees have a roughly correct box size now which makes placing them a lot easier :v
still raptor
Blessed
maybe ill look at adding the lighting offset tomorrow
so that you can have not-black trees
lament ore
ayyy lmao
I already let zombie know but there's still some prefabs that don't pick up lighting btw
Notably hay bales and bushes
Otherwise yea only the trees I have intentionally embedded in the ground are black
still raptor
which hay bale
lament ore
object_hay_bale
still raptor
round or square
lament ore
round?
still raptor
yeah that makes sense
somber atlas
guys: Doom 2's Chaingunner when? or Hexen Dusk?
still raptor
lament ore
yeah not that one
still raptor
theres your square hay bale
lament ore
which object_ is that? I wanna use it :v
still raptor
have the trees with broken lighting been fixed yet? i havent kept tabs on it
in fact, dumb question anyways, we'll just do a global fix
gritty forge
Could not load builtin entity definition file 'dusk_qmdl.fgd': At line 22, column 127: Expected '[', but got ':' (raw data: ':')
lament ore
@still raptor yes
still raptor
hm, that makes it even more curious
ill look into it tomorrow
im tackling visual issues atm
so thats good for the list
transparent depth sorting is pretty much taken care of
sky brushes have been corrected
lament ore
@gritty forge forgot tb doesn't support that. Try this
Oh worm? That's sick, I figured the depth issue would probably be the last thing to get fixed lol
lament ore
naisu
still raptor
bonus points if you guess the map
gritty forge
is it a counter strike one
lament ore
is it that one Vietnam mod
God fuck Windows. I'm just trying to copy a bsp from one folder to the dusk sdk folder automatically after compilation and it's all "CANNOT FIND THE PATH SPECIFIED." "ACCESS IS DENIED" "BLAH BLAH BLAH" bitch shut UP
gritty forge
The stone wall does not look very Vietnam
lament ore
I used to work in IT and Windows file permissions are still the bane of my fucking existence I cannot stand them
@still raptor object_insulator prevents spawning like object_anamoly used to
still raptor
cheers noted
lament ore
Just found another weird thing. The first time I load a map, the trees will be white like before. The second time and onwards, even if I reload the game, the trees are lit correctly
ancient depot
@gritty forge -2 does work yeah, the wiki page saying otherwise might just be an oversight
spiral nexus
I feel afraid to do any kind articles on the wiki because my English sucks
ancient depot
Don't worry about that, we monitor any changes to the wiki and will do cleanup passes and stuff on articles ourselves
spiral nexus
at the same time Valve dev wiki has tons of very embarrassing typos so what do I know
ancient depot
lmao
gritty forge
It's clearly because all their writers are busy pretending to be working on HL3
spiral nexus
I think most of the people editing it at this point are just poor TF2 mappers
Valve abandoned that website years ago it seems
ancient depot
the Valve dev wiki is also annoyingly lacking tons of GoldSrc info
it's very Source oriented
so for a lot of info we've had to check the Half Life SDK and Xash source codes
lament ore
@ancient depot why not TWHL? They've got relatively complete entity entries
ancient depot
Wasn't aware of them
I've always been a doom community guy so I'm unfamiliar with a lot of Quake and HL community stuff
lament ore
Yeah TWHL is the best place to go for GoldSRC stuff these days. Most GoldSRC knowledge has gone with the sands of time over the decades unfortunately.
ancient depot
Yeah I've noticed a ton of it is super hard to track down
honest stag
suprised how anything doom related is so easy to find though
ancient depot
doom has a much larger modding community
lament ore
The lack of real 3D makes getting into level design a lot easier
honest stag
also harder for me because i constantly wanted to make details and it just... wasnt possible a lot of the time
lament ore
Not to mention almost everyone uses or at least has some form of ZDoom installed, meaning scripting support for mods is almost ubiquitous.
For Quake and HL you're working with the engine itself, which again has a higher barrier of entry
spiral nexus
I think it's mostly because Doom had been open sourced pretty early and the source ports are good quality, Quake has the same thing because Quake has way more documentation than GoldSrc
lament ore
There's a lot of aspects where the simplicity of Doom lends itself to high accessibility for modders
GoldSRC sdk was available from day one
iirc
spiral nexus
VHE 3.0 came prebundled with CD version of HL1
lament ore
The docs for Half-Life USED to be good but Valve y'know
ancient depot
Too bad GoldSrc itself was never open sourced
spiral nexus
Valve has said that they might open source GoldSrc at some point, but I haven't heard progress about that for almost a year
ancient depot
stuff like the naming scheme for water textures is part of the engine itself
rather than the SDK
lament ore
They're in a weird legal position. Quake engine eventually got open sourced but that was after the release of HL1. Valve's GoldSRC engine still has Quake parts in it that was licensed to them under a proprietary license that doesn't allow them to release it
I'm sure if they just hit up id they could work something out but that would require Valve to give a shit about HL1
ancient depot
Yeah, they'd need to contact Bethesda
spiral nexus
Gabe talking to Todd would be hilarious
honest stag
"valve need to contact bethesda about making goldsrc open source"
didnt think i would EVER hear that
lament ore
Xash3D exists but is of dubious legality since it's obviously a fork of an old leaked version of WON source code
ancient depot
Leaked WON source code?
spiral nexus
there is something really ironic about company named Valve having a very infamous history of code and asset leaks
ancient depot
I was under the impression it was a reverse engineering effort. They began with the Quake source and used the HL SDK for references on what to immediately change
And then standard RE from there
lament ore
WON referring to World Something Network, what they used to use for matchmaking, basically a pre-steam version of Half-Life
ancient depot
oh yeah I know what WON HL is
lament ore
Yeah no that's just their story to avoid a lawsuit
ancient depot
wasnt aware there was a leak though
lament ore
buncha russians got their hands on a code leak and made Xash3D is more than likely what actually happened
ancient depot
lmao, does sound feasible
lament ore
Valve has also previously disavowed Xash3D although they haven't done anything legally about it
ancient depot
Not like that did anything lmao
lament ore
Even if Xash3D isn't based on stolen code, it still uses the Half-Life SDK for the client and server modules and Valve views that as an illegal use of the Half-Life SDK
so the only way you'd ever get a truly open source and fully distributable version of the Half-Life engine is to write it without using any Valve code whatsoever
Could be feasible to extend one of the Quake engines if you don't mind the license the Quake engine offers
Using one of the Quake engines as a base would prevent you from allowing commercial options, though.
ancient depot
Prevent you from allowing closed source commercial options*
spiral nexus
what this all means is that, we, the JACK gang of #dusk-modding, have a sacred mission to create proper HL1 documentation to save future Hl1/Dusk mappers from searching how to make Barney move from A place to B place with minimal amount of aspirin usage in process
ancient depot
lmao
also @still raptor it wasn't meant to be set up for auto confirm but I guess it's no big deal
was only a preventative measure against someone shitting up the wiki
lament ore
oh yeah complex scripted sequences are a pain in the ass to figure out without proper docs
gritty forge
is there anyway to make dusk maps without the quake wad
lament ore
you don't need the quake wad at all unless you want to use quake textures
TB or JACK?
gritty forge
TB?
spiral nexus
Trenchbroom
gritty forge
ye
spiral nexus
Trenchbroom might require you to have Quake installed, but I am not sure
You don't need any of the Quake textures to create DUSK map though
lament ore
It does not require Quake to be installed, you just won't have any placeholder models which is fine
I asked because TB doesn't support WAD3
@gritty forge use the official DUSK.WAD in the pinned messages
gritty forge
i did that already
i downloaded the dusk wad and when i loaded it in trenchbroom every texture was black
gritty forge
where do i put the palette
lament ore
not sure where tb expects it to be. Probably something like Game Directory/id1/palette.lmp
or just in whatever the mod directory is
might have to look it up
spiral nexus
we probably should have pages for basic TB and JACK setup on the wiki or something
Though we don't have official FGD or WAD3 of Dusk so it's kind of impossible to make one for JACK rn
lament ore
We don't have an official fgd for tb either :v
We talked about that already tho
Plus JACK can use the official dusk.wad, you just have to either use Quake format maps or do a little workaround for Half-Life format maps
@gritty forge did you figure it out
gritty forge
no
lament ore
Do you have any preference towards TB over JACK
Cuz I can't help you with TB but with JACK the palette file you need is included
gritty forge
is https://jack.hlfx.ru/en/download.html the right place
lament ore
Yup
honest stag
we got another JACKER coming in
lament ore
I'll get on the computer in a sec and give you my fgd file
Bro we are JACKing.....
@gritty forge any preference for compiler toolsets or nah
honest stag
trying to hollow a half-ball was a bad idea
lament ore
Hollow a sphere and clip it in half
lament ore
Psh, TB can't even hollow spheres? Shameful.....
lament ore
what do you mean
gritty forge
jack instantly wanted to change something in my pc
lament ore
change what?
gritty forge
i dont know
honest stag
fucking level editors and their viruses smh my head
lament ore
........ok
well I guess you could use Sledge or Valve Hammer Editor or Worldcraft or whatever
lament ore
yeah like 20 years ago but if he doesn't want to use modern editors then idk lol
Sledge was only recently abandoned
ancient depot
@gritty forge I can confirm that JACK and TrenchBroom won't do anything to your computer
I understand the fear, but as long as you get them from their official sites, the fear is unfounded
lament ore
I should uh, really start using VISGROUPS
ancient depot
I assume you got the access elevation prompt in Windows which says "This program wants to make changes to your computer"
Annoys the hell out of me that Microsoft chose that as the message, because it doesn't necessarily mean that at all
lament ore
I haven't seen that message in like a decade because I immediately turn UAC off the moment I install Windows lmao
ancient depot
I keep it on since it's the closest thing to sudo
honest stag
just out of curiosity - what do you guys think this is?
lament ore
I've never thought of it that way but I am even more disgusted
ancient depot
blood fountain
sly flicker
Looks like a baptism fountain thing
lament ore
yeah blood fountain
lament ore
I'd never find the tweet but trashbang posted a screenshot of some random HL map where some poor soul tried making an N64 controller out of brushes and it looked hilarious
the stuff you make with brushes reminds me of that sometimes @honest stag lol
like that dead soldier a while back
honest stag
i know i know they're silly
lament ore
what compiler set did you download? You can change the max map size in options but you'll need a limit removing compiler set to compile anything larger than the default
if you don't know what I'm talking about, here
half vessel
lament ore
This is sven co-op's limit removing compiler set
you can get it officially through steam by downloading sven co-op then downloading the sven co-op sdk if you'd like
I just uploaded a zip of my copy for convenience
gritty forge
dusk textures black and white in JACK
gritty forge
cool
lament ore
ok nvm @ancient depot @still raptor it'll happen every time I reload the game
The first time I load into the map the trees are white
ancient depot
That's... weird
lament ore
if I load the map again without making any changes, it works
ancient depot
think I might know why though
lament ore
and so long as I don't restart the game it'll continue working fine even if I make changes to the bsp
ancient depot
the fix for the white textures (_Emission not being set in shaders) doesn't wait for the main texture to finish loading
So on first load, that texture isn't loaded yet, so it assigns a blank white texture
lament ore
ahh
makes sense
actually
let me test something
yeah the texture is there. is it just that it loads out of order?
ancient depot
Yes
lament ore
ah
ancient depot
the emission texture grabs whatever the main texture is set to
then the main texture finishes loading, and gets assigned
on a second load:
the main texture is already loaded, and is thus immediately assigned
the emission texture grabs whatever the main texture is set to
lament ore
I see I see
I'm glad my spurious decision to make a foresty map has unveiled like a dozen bugs related to the prefabs lmfao
gritty forge
Sorry for being such a cunt but where to find dusk props in JACK?
lament ore
select the entity placer, the white icon on the left
honest stag
welcome.... to
lament ore
then on the right hand side under the objects dropdown you can pick what entity you wanna place
JACK is almost identical to Valve Hammer Editor from a user point of view so most tutorials for Hammer will work for JACK, and there's a ton of Hammer tutorials
gritty forge
ooh shit so prop_dynamic?
gritty forge
aight
lament ore
Decent series on Half-Life mapping. They originally used VHE but from this video onwards they use JACK.
spiral nexus
There's pretty little amount of props in both HL and Dusk and most stuff is actually brush modelled, so I recommend doing that till models become supported
it's also way more fun
lament ore
Yeah. Think he was referring to stuff you can pick up and throw around, though
spiral nexus
isn't there func_physbox or was that only in Source?
lament ore
That was only in Source but iirc we'll be getting that in Dusk
The whole big thing about HL2 was that it added a physics engine remember lul
honest stag
wait WHAT
We will be able to make a brush object that can be fucking trown around?
Thrown*
spiral nexus
I always forget that HL1 didn't actually have proper physics
honest stag
12:00 installing jack
17:00 configuring jack
26:06 next section
Lol that scares me
lament ore
The video is structured as one guy telling another guy what to do in realtime and giving very verbose explanations of everything
it takes like 2 minutes max to configure it if you know what you're doing
it's all the same things as TB just in different menus
spiral nexus
there will never be same kind of experience as sitting in the middle of the night listening to two hour long video where lad with heavy accent and toothbrush microphone explains how to make a door in VHE for 2 hours on 144p video
lament ore
heh
spiral nexus
good times
honest stag
Dumptruck's voice is soothing
lament ore
oh god my virtual machine is getting real close to running out of RAM for compiling this map
originally I only gave it 4GB then it needed 6GB and now it's at 8GB and now it wants MORE
well not yet, but soon
gotta wrap up this map....
spiral nexus
Are there more Trenchbroomers or JACKers on this channel?
torpid agate
lmao. ive done a cursed deed.