@rapid crown hm i'm pretty much new to anything mapping related and have enough problems with trenchbroom atm so i guess i'll keep working on that before i open the next can of worms 😄 but it looks interesting
#dusk-modding
onyx marten
balmy thorn
WIP screenshot of my current map
fringe nymph
looks amazing yet im afraid its too narrow/cramped
summer dagger
yo is there a way to see my player coordinates in game? like a cl_showpos sorta thing
balmy thorn
It’s only a small portion of the level though. View it as an exterior corridor 😛
Thanks btw!
summer dagger
map looks pretty cool dude
balmy thorn
Thanks
fallen mica
onyx marten
looks really good
rapid crown
Looks great @balmy thorn
@onyx marten that's fair enough bud, bookmark it though for later exploration 👌
long anchor
@balmy thorn looks nice
onyx marten
@rapid crown yup thx already did 👌
mortal narwhal
this map is really shaping up
iron needle
👌 👌 👌
tepid flint
why did you not kill the soldier shooting at you>??????
gritty forge
Put some runes on the blueish obelisk and we are cooking with soap
mortal narwhal
I wish transparency was out, then i totally would
gritty forge
sharp trail
does anyone know a good way of making natural surfaces in trenchbroom/does anyone know a good tutorial for that
?
mortal narwhal
So what I do is I have a brush then I cut it twice, then protrude, extrude the middle vertex
I'll get an image
to this
with the cut tool
then the vertex tool
you can also make a bunch of triangular prisms, select them all, then extrude/protrude to your liking
like this, then use the vertex tool on verticies
I prefer the first method, but the second method is good as well
@sharp trail
sharp trail
thx so much
alpine depot
i was about to say "more like trenchBOOMER" but you already did it
verbal peak
im open to the idea. what purpose would the role serve beyond a vanity item? if its for mentorship of noobs and such, that carries a lot more weight in my eyes
mortal narwhal
I suppose yeah, I do like helping out noobs with tb. Also it sounds funny :)
verbal peak
thing is, we already have a ton of "gimmie" roles. if we were to add anything else, i want it to serve a functional community purpose
hollow laurel
maybe if you add some channel for wip/feedback, where you need that
oh yeah
i'm just brainstorming here
alpine depot
yeah, WIP/feedback channel, and more of a help channel too
this channel's getting slightly clogged up too with questions and showcases and whatnot
mortal narwhal
Honestly, your call. I'll still help people when I'm checking #dusk-modding
I do agree with the sentiment of not bloating the server up with roles
verbal peak
WIP channel is something we're discussing. also tossed around the idea of an official subreddit. discord kinda sucks for referencing old posts
hollow laurel
and thinking about it, might also be bad to have split channels, since it leads to people not watching the other one
verbal peak
the idea is ease of use while staying centralized somewhere
hollow laurel
so people can for example miss out on people asking for advice/help
yeah
i don't envy your responsibility :p
mortal narwhal
In that case, i think a subreddit would be wise
hollow laurel
yeah, that could work nicely for more long term things
verbal peak
yeah we think so too. im in the process of acquiring /r/duskthegame. its long abandoned and set to private
but gaining control of a dead sub is a lengthy process
hollow laurel
:C
would be sweet though
since, well, for example post thing and have long term discussions
since this is more.... instant things
vivid blaze
@verbal peak this one? https://old.reddit.com/r/DUSKTheGame/
i made it lol
you can have it
hollow laurel
hah
mortal narwhal
lol
hollow laurel
awesome
mortal narwhal
thats hilarious
verbal peak
DM me. we have much to discuss
sturdy tide
ez
hollow laurel
<3
alpine depot
man that subreddit is such a ghost town, or should I say a E1M9 town
bwahaha arent i just so damn clever???
mortal narwhal
nice :)
hollow laurel
hue
royal spear
shill you could also make a thread on knock out, unsure if there's a dusk thread but it's much easier to navigate for older posts and archives than reddit
vivid blaze
control of the subreddit has been handed over
mortal narwhal
Yeah, I'm thinking based.
verbal peak
well that was easy
rapid crown
Oh that's great about the subreddit, and quite amusing how it just fell into your hands there 😆
verbal peak
so for the future, i highly encourage all projects be posted to https://old.reddit.com/r/DUSKTheGame/
rapid crown
Pin that bro
vivid blaze
hollow laurel
subbed
rapid crown
Also people who want to be 'Trenchboomers' could have it as their flair on the sub?
verbal peak
ill work on all the fancy reddit features and shit as time goes on. for now, this a great start
hollow laurel
woo
mortal narwhal
trenchboomer time
heavy sluice
Are we gonna have to start becoming reddit mods too 😨
hollow laurel
yes
rapid crown
subbed
rapid crown
Maybe look to other members of the community for mod roles on Reddit?
verbal peak
the logistics of the sub will be worked on in time. im not certain how much of a moderation presence we need just yet
hollow laurel
don't.... ask me to mod, it'll probably stress me out to get anxiety ._.
well, time will tell
royal spear
Modding subreddits is easy
Just weed out the weirdos and don't let it become a meme cesspool like r/tf2
alpine depot
i mean tf2 hasnt had an update in a long time right? it's like what happened to r/halflife which went without a new HL game in over a decade
the memes kept that alive and i guess r/tf2 now as well
circle of life, baby
royal spear
Yea, but there's contributing discussions and then there's straight up memes
alpine depot
memes are cool tho
mortal narwhal
he does it for free
verbal peak
ill look into a auto-mod of sorts. hopefully we can get something similar to what we have here
mortal narwhal
@ancient depot Will enemies see you through brushes with transparent textures when it gets implemented?
hollow laurel
well, depends on memes
doing stuff that's basically community in-jokes, fine
also
welp
should've expected it, but dave retweeted my screenshot of his face on massive surfaces, and now i'm anxious because might get attention
mind, it's my mind being fucky
so, well, if he sees or hears of this, no need to remove
mortal narwhal
link?
verbal peak
i'd imagine the sub will mostly be you guys sharing trenchBOOMER things but the sub will function as a general catch all for the community. so memes, fan art, mods, ect will be the norm
fringe summit
hollow laurel
or that
mortal narwhal
lol skyboxes working is news to me
hollow laurel
well, it's a massive fucking box i made around my map :p
since, i want to do the 3d skybox thing
in the long run
mortal narwhal
ah, a sky-box
hollow laurel
yep
vivid blaze
How do skyboxes work anyway
hollow laurel
well, when properly working, you'll set a surface to a sky texture, and it'll be looking like a sky, as in clouds moving or what they do
without it looking like a texture close to you
just, they don't work proper yet, iirc
and, well, i did this to have a..... canvas
rapid crown
@hollow laurel I love it 😆
hollow laurel
for future far-off stuff
it's been replaced with the black texture in the dusk wad now :p
rapid crown
Sacrilege
hollow laurel
did a search for total dimensions of box (think they're... 128 units thick, for some reason): 19456 19456 19456
huh, even 512
since, each face (heh) is 18944 18944
and one reason for encasing the map in such a massive box is....
basically, you start where the red line starts, go up a road a bit, through mines, up to green line into building, then you go out and will see massive building far away
sortof the neat dark souls thing where you first start with seeing your path, and then after a bit you'll see your goal in the distance
yellow line will be some mines, leading into a crypt (i think)
mortal narwhal
thats neat
mortal narwhal
yeah
hollow laurel
since, it's a thing i find neat in games, when i feel like a tiny pawn in a big game
mortal narwhal
same here
hollow laurel
even though i pwn all the things :p
mortal narwhal
^
alpine depot
how do i get a func_button to open a func_door?
do i use the "message" property and put something in like "open" or whatever?
hollow laurel
message is stuff that's displayed on screen when the thing is activated
gimme a sec
alpine depot
yeah thats what i figured, just wondered if it would do anything else if it was targeting a different entity
hollow laurel
basically, on the button you set target to what you will 'name' the door
alpine depot
OHHHHHHHHH SO THATS HOW YOU GET DOORS AND WHATNOT TO STOP Z-FIGHTING WHEN THEY OPEN
hollow laurel
so the button for example will be pushed back a bit, but not intersect or go beyond the wall
heh :3
also, well, targetname on the door
alpine depot
AHHH OH MY GOD I'VE BEEN THINKING IT WAS A BUG
hollow laurel
mindblown.gif
hmm, yeah, looking at things
a door will move as far as the distance of what axis it's set to move on
minus the lip value
gritty forge
Remind me what the beta access code is.
hollow laurel
gritty forge
Wait nvm
alpine depot
maybe
hollow laurel
maybe
balmy thorn
@mortal narwhal Need another test of your map? 😉
mortal narwhal
@balmy thorn 
balmy thorn
😁
mortal narwhal
Probably tomorrow
balmy thorn
Sure thing.
mortal narwhal
I'm getting it completable
balmy thorn
Nice. Looking forward
weak vessel
Dang it!
That thumbnail looked like someone made a ball pit for Dusk
Even still, that's a cool run.
alpine depot
so ball pits are still in fashion, noted
fierce lava
The rat pack
kindred epoch
I've completed it i'm just waiting for the DUSK sdk to mod attack and alert sounds and now people are gonna take all the fame for the joke 😭
https://streamable.com/ymtge
alpine depot
super cool warehouse area, i think its pretty cool
(ps: it's kinda super cool doe 😳 )
mortal narwhal
thats cool @alpine depot
honest stag
it is super cool my man!
alpine depot
super cool!
if anyone says otherwise that would be particularly uncool of them!
i'm having a lot of fun mapping, trenchbroom is literally jesus in the form of a mapping tool
mortal narwhal
have you tried shift + ctrl , click and drag mouse on a brush? @alpine depot
It will change your life
honest stag
for the absolute best editing of textures just shift+click on a face and then use the uv editor
you probably know about it but i couldnt figure out how to get it to work lol
alpine depot
yeah i use shift + ctrl / drag mouse all the time
more so on more detailed brush groups to make selections faster
mortal narwhal
oh that, I mean this:
mortal narwhal
mortal narwhal
yeah
alpine depot
what the fucjk
mortal narwhal
tb is awesome
alpine depot
OH MY FUCKING GOD
mortal narwhal
life=changed
alpine depot
I SWEAR I SAW THIS IN ONE OF THE TUTORIALS AND YET I NEVER REALIZED
mortal narwhal
I use that all the time, like allllll the time
alpine depot
oh my god
mortal narwhal
really helps keep texturing tight
honest stag
holy shit that's actually crazy
still raptor
what extruding?
mortal narwhal
well that but it makes another brush
still raptor
thats what extruding is
still raptor
very very important tool
mortal narwhal
I thought extrude was just pulling a face out with shift click/drag
honest stag
alright imma stream making a map again even tho i literally woke up 20 minutes ago
i wanna spend a long-ass time making something and see how that turns out
mortal narwhal
stream on discord?
honest stag
twitch
mortal narwhal
link?
honest stag
REAL FAKE GUNS
wise zealot
unique ocean
The entryway of my map, still have to finish the doors and fix the lava lighting.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613767038481072206/665392411668905994/20200110155829_1.jpg
mortal narwhal
that looks COOL
honest stag
ye that's sick my man
unique ocean
My Idea was basically to make a steel temple within a cave
mortal narwhal
the texturing is solid
unique ocean
Thanks. I need to get better at lighting though, The bottom is too bright as of right now.
unique ocean
ok but consider:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613767038481072206/665396636956098560/20200110212247_1.jpg
disregard that odd shadow glitch
I have no clue how that happened
alpine depot
ware's the house? in the warehouse!
unique ocean
Nice
mortal narwhal
de_train
lament ore
also @gritty night that Desert Van prototype is fucking awesome lmao, would love to flesh that out into a full game
lament ore
also sorry I haven't played your maps everybody I have been sleep™ and they called me into work tonight
honest stag
you how do you make -bounce lighting again?
lament ore
I am not allowed to have weekends apparently
honest stag
just add it to the compiler list of commands?
lament ore
@honest stag pass it to light yea
honest stag
'ight thank you
honest stag
decided to make a new map - spent almost 2 hours making one section and got sad because realised i had the actually make new rooms
...again :(
gritty forge
I decided to replace the sword draw sound with the combined sound of the TF2 sword draw sound and the Amid Evil Whisper's Edge sound.
The result is shiny.
alpine depot
so how is trigger_multiple supposed to be used in TB? i want to use it to teleport a bunch of enemies in when a key is picked up, aka when the player also walks into a trigger_multiple
ancient depot
trigger_multiple isn't for triggering multiple entities, but for something that can be triggered multiple times
alpine depot
oh
ancient depot
that said
you can trigger multiple things with it
they just all need to have the same name
alpine depot
oh ok
ancient depot
the alternative is to use a multi_manager that you trigger with trigger_multiple or trigger_once
honest stag
i still cant figure out how does multi_manager work
ancient depot
You add your own properties to it, and the name of the property is the targetname of the entity to activate
the value of the property is the time in seconds before it gets activated
Note you also need something else to trigger the multi_manager, it won't activate on its own
for example
"classname" "multi_manager"
"targetname" "my_cool_door"
"door1" "2"
"door2" "2.4"
"door3" "2.6"```ahhhhh alright alright
hold on, so in addition to the properties i need to add a targetname to it, because that's how i connect it to a trigger?
can trigger_button trigger it?
honest stag
hell yea thank you so much
ancient depot
np
crystal lily
where is dusk.wad?
honest stag
pinned messages
crystal lily
thanks
honest stag
np!
alpine depot
my teleports aint working >:(
honest stag
they should tho, can you show the setup?
alpine depot
i have a trigger_once targeting two trigger_teleport's, both named "teleSpawners", they're at the origins of the entities i want to teleport, one's target is set to one info_teleport_destination, one is set to the other, the names are all fine and dandy and everything
ancient depot
separate triggers aren't supported with teleporters yet
you just use a trigger_teleport and an info_teleport_destination for now
alpine depot
oh
honest stag
hey i dont know who made the LittlePipes map, but it's goddamn awesome i loved it! so simple but fun
alpine depot
so how would i trigger the trigger_teleport to do its thing if i cant use a trigger_once to actually trigger it that way? it's supposed to teleport some enemies in when a key is picked up and the trigger_once basically simulates that
ancient depot
trigger_teleport itself works like a trigger_once
alpine depot
i have no idea how these entities work at all lol
ancient depot
so you just attach it to a brush
alpine depot
wait wh
oh
OH
so i set the target to be the enemy i want to teleport in, and set the enemy's target to the destination?
ancient depot
Currently the only way to teleport something is for them to walk into the teleport trigger
It's mainly that way just because we didn't have proper triggers supported when we added teleporting
alpine depot
oh
ancient depot
It'll be fixed later on
since we actually have triggers now
same reason func_breakable can't be broken via a trigger yet
alpine depot
i was wondering why that wasnt working
at least i finished the warehouse aside from a spammy bone monk teleport trap
i think im getting pretty good at this
i think it's a bit dark tho but idk
honest stag
ye it looks pretty good my man
alpine depot
i didnt expect to be wasting away 4 hours on it lol
i spent like 20 mins realizing i screwed up some textures
and tried to fix them
lament ore
mapping is a huge time sink lol
It's like minimum four hours per minute of gameplay for a good map
alpine depot
my map forces you to rely more on cover, it sort of restricts all that hup-hup goodness you could do in pretty much all of the dusk maps
i think it's a cool gameplay change, claustrophobic spaces and crazy enemy numbers all piling onto you
honest stag
yeah it's goddamn insane for me how dusk is 6 hours long now
damn, it took me 12 hours or more to finish the Church and peoeple play through it like 5 minutes
alpine depot
if people spend at least 10 mins on my map in the end then im happy lol
lemme just teleport the player to a random room for ten mins and call it a day 😎
honest stag
lol when scripting is out increase the health of all enemies 2x to artificially increase the length of your level
(DO NOT do that)
ancient depot
changing health values and stuff will come earlier than scripting
hell we could probably offer that right now as an entity property
alpine depot
i definitely wanna beef up the soldiers a bit
make them a bit more tough and formidable
ancient depot
wouldn't be hard, I'll add it to my todo list
honest stag
that would be awesome but i dont know, it always fucks with normal gameplay when people do that
if you retexture a monster and call him something else then it's fine probably
like a cultist dies with 1 rifle shot right
cant be otherwise
alpine depot
right now we're able to make lifts and such right?
alpine depot
ok that's fucking perfect
time for a massive and super slow lift leading to the surface
alpine depot
nah
i'll have some extra doors open and there'll be a bunch of enemies ready to whoop your ass
honest stag
do the half life thing when you can see different floors while riding it
alpine depot
gonna lead to a cool trainyard nestled in a mountain valley or something
i really hope func_breakables can be destroyed by explosives soon
cuz it'd be so cool to have the guardian blow up a train and initiate a boss fight that way
explosions are always cool!
lament ore
func_breakable can't be destroyed by explosives?
oh but speaking of having NPCs do stuff, @ancient depot what's scripted sequence support gonna be like?
ancient depot
no idea, I haven't even looked at scripted_sequence
GoldSrc entities are 2nd priority until Quake entities are fully supported
small gate
just curious, any particular reason for not using something like PhysFS
ancient depot
Multiple
I want to avoid native dependencies because they're a nightmare to deal with in Unity
and it's not robust enough for the kind of internal API I wanted
I actually did use PhysFS in the very early days of the SDK
lament ore
aw, func_breakable's Target On Break doesn't work yet 😦 oh well
was gonna do a rock slide effect with it
ancient depot
that's another easy one to add
just another victim of target support not being in when it was added
small gate
I guess that's fair, you'd think by now they would've found a solution for the nat. dependencies
lament ore
they have a working solution, it's a pain in the ass because Unity runs on many platforms
ancient depot
^
and it's a pain to set up for multiple platforms
it's doable, just really really annoying
so I'd rather avoid it whenever possible
but even if it wasn't a problem, there's the issue of PhysFS not being versatile enough anyway
small gate
so used to just shitting some cmakelists on top of everything that I completely forgot about that
lament ore
cmake is a russian psyop designed to make zoomers hate C programming
small gate
lol
ancient depot
the problem is that fucking nobody seems to write modern CMake
instead opting to write the awful old syntax
although personally I prefer meson over CMake
small gate
it's annoying as fuck at first but after you get a couple templates going it really saves time when you're dealing with more than a single plat
summer dagger
aaaa fck i really want to post a pic here but still cant
small gate
I think C is a conspiracy to make CS parachute students to hate themselves rather
ancient depot
You can upload it to imgur or something and link it
summer dagger
oh thats right
small gate
first-timers doing C on CS courses is absolutely sad to watch, 90% of their time and effort is wasted on wrangling with the absolute dogshit standard apis like scanf
summer dagger
that thing was a PAIN IN THE ASS to make
just wanted to share cuz im proud of it
ancient depot
or completely misunderstanding pointers
long anchor
oof
ancient depot
or thinking const int* ptr is the right order and not int const *ptr
honest stag
That looks awesome my dude! @summer dagger
the side view looks like dna or some shit lol
remids me of the "tower" in e2m2 with soldiers
long anchor
dusk campaign is overall really inspiring
i mean
this thing
inspired me to make
this thing
honest stag
looks damn sick my dudes
damn, the more people post here the less i want to post my shit lol
oblique laurel
what noo your posts so sexy aha
long anchor
don't be afraid of posting your "shit"
small gate
harder to learn if nobody is there to shred your "shit"
small gate
gotta say tho that's a sick ass map veven
long anchor
and i just share my shittracks for people to listen and gather feedback
and i can clearly say that by previous year it became less shitier
@small gate thankio
small gate
contributing to FOSS projects helped me a lot over the years on writing software, docs, getting testing coverate on your projects, running analysis tools etc
you'd pay quite a bit of cash on courses to get that sorta experience that people are just willing to help you with free if you just take the time to put your work out there
all that to say that if you're putting effort on it, even if the end result isnt what you wanted its still worth getting it out there
honest stag
oh yeah the new map is coming together nicely
long anchor
glowing toilet scp
small gate
I guess it's one of the ASCENDED props
long anchor
lmao
small gate
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586508960128040961/664831703835082762/Screen_Shot_2020-01-09_at_6.03.22_AM.png (source: func_bread)
now that's the right img
long anchor
@honest stag i hope today i'll finish my goddamn map
honest stag
so far at least
ey nice
so i tried to make this dipshit again, no success
made a perfectly functional fence-gate out of brushes with no issues tho
honest stag
nah it looks better that way
small gate
those are like, mine supports?
long anchor
maybe they look better
honest stag
i didnt realise how janky those "lampposts" look until now
dont look back when you enter ok
honest stag
no :)
long anchor
ok
honest stag
i like doing brushes even when they suck lol
i only use objects when they can be used now, like the toilet
otherwise i would make my own
thank you btw
long anchor
lol it happened again
honest stag
what happened
long anchor
instead of making part of the map how i planned i just expanded it more lol
now map makes more sense tho
also
@honest stag how you light your maps after recent patches?
honest stag
older ones - they mostly got fucked hard
long anchor
light ents or you're using sunlight?
honest stag
ah
i just use some light sources and bump them up
if it's a "sun" then it's just a blasting light entity in the sky
also VERY important
add -bounce and -soft to the commands of light.exe
makes it look nice
like that tunnel lighting
long anchor
yeah, i do this since quake
long anchor
asking cause my lights are also screwed after light patch
honest stag
what really?
warm badge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/559399996189835265/665459095389732885/dusk1.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/559399996189835265/665459096757207070/dusk2.png been working on this today
honest stag
ey looks damn sick
long anchor
zombie said that every _property is kinda "independent" so it should work anyway
warm badge
thanks lol
honest stag
looks like a haunted house of the resident evil mansion
i dig it a lot
long anchor
wow i like it
for some reason it gives me that afraid of monsters feeling
you know
that mod for HL
honest stag
that will probably look so good in a night setting
warm badge
lol my friend told me it reminded him of an old zombie survival map, i didnt really have any inspiration other than i wanted to do a lakehouse kind of thing
honest stag
is there an interior yet?
long anchor
probably because lakehouses are scary
warm badge
hahaha, yeah, and yeah theres an interior
honest stag
oh sick
warm badge
its part of a whole level i blocked out back before the SDK released, theres also a cabin off in the woods but thats pretty WIP atm
honest stag
that sounds amazing
like an old horror movie layout or something
warm badge
haha yeah i had horror movies in mind, though i'm not a big horror fan personally but i mean ive always wanted to map for blood but couldnt get into the archaic editor, so this kind of scratches that itch for me
long anchor
one day someone will gather together and make collab map/mappack
warm badge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/559399996189835265/665462032979460106/dusk3.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/559399996189835265/665462033843748864/dusk4.png heres some interior pics
i have sort of a small campaign in mind but baby steps, just getting used to mapping for dusk for now, and starting with something simple
warm badge
lol
honest stag
oh that's cool my man
long anchor
is there a property for sun angle?
summer dagger
where do you even add that property
long anchor
entity properties for brushes
summer dagger
oh
long anchor
it selects worldspawn and you can add sunlight, it's angle
also light property for all brushes
summer dagger
coolio
long anchor
yep
lool compilation with all these fancy light options takes much more time
regular takes like, second or two
honest stag
There is a price to pay for fancy lighting
honest stag
Show?
honest stag
Huh
Pretty cool
long anchor
lol it's not
that means i can't really use sun
i heard someone said something about light_environment
what's this
small gate
(@vrisk) those supports on the tunnel are looking p. legit
honest stag
Thank
I still think that i camt top my previous map lol
At least it won't happen in a while
I had very special inspiration there
small gate
the only thing that bothers me about it is that you put like, whats the name of the shoulder triangle thingadoo (not an english native speaker so 🤷♂️ ) but the center beam isn't supporting much, if you don't mind me nitpicking
honest stag
Yeah i should somehow make that
I'll look for actual mine supports for reference when i get back to the map
lament ore
oh man I can't wait for custom gamemodes and shit once co-op is out
Sven Co-op.......2!
long anchor
duskball
kickin corpses
also parkour
getting bonus for triple flip or something like this
honest stag
Trouble in Dusk Town
lament ore
sick of working on these gotdamn cliffs 😤
proven agate
Hello guys, recently encountered with a problem, i can not change turn (angle pitch yaw) around created npc and door direction in JACK? D: (or this is only my problemo?)
Everything facing East
long anchor
@lament ore these cliffs look gorgeous tho
long anchor
@proven agate i guess you need to use same property as in TB - euler
honest stag
yeah the cliifs look awesome
long anchor
although angle works for me
proven agate
"euler" wtf is that xD
small gate
euler angles
long anchor
and i think it must work for you too
euler is custom dusk property
for rotating stuff
long anchor
wtf Zombie
ancient depot
If the SDK was at 1.0 it would be staying
but since it's in alpha be prepared for changes like this
long anchor
best 2020 prank
ancient depot
Keeping euler would lead to confusion down the line since there's also angles
and euler works in a different coordinate system
so if you used angles with the same value as what you give euler, you'd get a different rotation
as a bonus, TrenchBroom supports angles so when we have our proper FGD kit out, you'll be able to preview the rotations in the editor
proven agate
good, good. 
Anyways, can i zoom in (make it larger) map in JACK? (I need moar free space MOAR)
(any JACK users?
)
long anchor
babe? lol
lament ore
@honest stag thank u smooches
long anchor
imagine duskbabe
small gate
you just gonna stand there and let him xoxo you like that
lament ore
duskbabe or riot
proven agate
long anchor
riot riot riot riot
honest stag
😳
small gate
😳 what if we kissed under the erebus reactor 😳
lament ore
@proven agate what do you mean by zoom in? Like zoom in the camera view?
proven agate
DAWN SDK DAWN SDK
lament ore
Dawn Gal
long anchor
dawn galt
proven agate
Noah, there was a mistake in thoose words (dang it) i mean... scale up the size of the map.
I want a large map... coz JACK default size is small.
(woke up 30 minutes ago kek)
(it’s hard to think in your my own language, not to mention translating is pretty hard too)
long anchor
^ same ^
proven agate
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
https://imgur.com/WOjhH7v
long anchor
oof
i think you can't bypass size restriction
but again
i'm not JACKman
i'm TBMan
can't say for sure
proven agate
😢 😢 😢
long anchor
@lament ore you're using JACK, rightio?
proven agate
I can't, there is sum "walls" which don't let me out...
I'm taking my question back to me... (just didn't saw that feature on jack.hlfx.ru)
Large Map Support: the editor enables working with levels of large size, up to 262144 x 262144 units, now it is simply set up in the Preferences. Now one can easily crate levels for mods with a support of large outdoors.
But there is another size problem; will Dusk support larger map sizes??
honest stag
What's the difference between "angle" and "angles"?
Angle is just on the x axis with the exception of -1 and -2, and "angles" allows for an xyz angle?????
Just assuming
solid isle
The same. Angles is HL/ GoldSrc
both are supported; you only can have one though
also yeah for the most part
angles being goldsrc supports 0 0 0 orientation
whereas angle has specifics like -1, -2, 0-359
honest stag
alright gotcha, thanks
hollow laurel
hmm, for the euler -> angles thing, how does the order differ? i could whip up a regex for people to use in notepad++ to replace it in the .map
lament ore
@proven agate you can change the map size limit in the jack options. Keep in mind you'll need to use either Ericw's tools or Sven Co-op's fork of ZHLT to compile though, as original ZHLT enforces the map size limit
@long anchor ye
I don't think Dusk has any limit on map size as far as I'm aware, but Unity will start to shit itself if you go for really, really large maps
hollow laurel
also, the game doesn't seem to have issues with massive maps in of itself <_<
ancient depot
@hollow laurel We'll be offering a migration tool later on for maps (both .bsp and the source .map, for convenience) that'll fix up things like that
hollow laurel
ah, okay, neat
ancient depot
but that said, let me get the formula for you
ancient depot
angles(x, y, z) = euler(x, -y, -z)
long anchor
z x y 4Head
long anchor
@ancient depot how soon you'll remove euler?
ancient depot
next patch probably, the sooner the better
ancient depot
dunno, just whenever the next patch drops
ancient depot
if you really want, I can keep it in until we get the migration tool
if that would be more convenient
long anchor
nah
ancient depot
but I would strongly recommend that you use angles from here on out
long anchor
^
honest stag
like rip the bandaid off
ancient depot
it is done
lament ore
@hollow laurel you probably wouldn't notice it with a big cube, but Unity has a well known issue where if you go to extreme coordinates the vertices of models will go kinda haywire
it's because floats don't have enough accuracy for very large values
hollow laurel
oh yeah, saw a clip where someone got yeeted out
lament ore
yea
hollow laurel
👍
lament ore
Hey @ancient depot do you think it would be possible for Dusk to detect if Half-Life and/or Quake are installed? Obviously it's gonna be a no-no to distribute copyrighted content but I'm sure people are gonna want to use stuff from HL and Quake, so it'd be cool if dusk could be like "hey we see you have Half-Life installed, do you want us to copy the content into the local folder for use in mods?"
ancient depot
That's absolutely something I'm considering, yeah
lament ore
Sven Co-op sorta does that for OpFor/BS and provides batch files to automate it
nice nice
ancient depot
But rather than copy the content, I was thinking we could use it in-place
lament ore
that would also be great if possible
ancient depot
It would mean I'd need to add support for goldsrc game definition files, and Quake PAK files, but it's doable and not too hard
lament ore
I thought Unity scripts were more or less sandboxed into their directory but I could be totally misremembering
lament ore
o nice
gonna make this a dusk mod
Cursed Dusk where the weapon sounds peak more and more relative to how effective the weapon is
lapis hare
sounds like david's dream mod
small gate
all tracks, combat, ambience, all of them, harsh noise
small gate
kick andrew, invite passenger of shit
sterile junco
what if you just mute the game
graceful hinge
oh boy so euler is rip huh
welp, better before i release the map then after
So can I just replace all the euler tags with 'angles' and its interpreted the same way?
ancient depot
no, you need to negate the y and z values
but other than that yes
so if you had 1 2 3 for euler, it now becomes 1 -2 -3
lament ore
you could open the .map and just find and replace with regex
ladies and gentlemen I have duskified the forest
spiral nexus
this looks like Stalker
lament ore
we gloomwood now
spiral nexus
where did you get those cool ass tree textures though?
I've been searching for forest textures for couple of days now
hollow laurel
The hills look cool also
proven agate
hmm.. if i want sky on my map, which texture i must use?
hl'fish sky texture doesn't work D:
lament ore
I use the SKY texture from zhlt.wad
which iirc both ericw's tools and zhlt will turn any texture named SKY into the skybox
proven agate
Oh.. zhlt.wad must be located in the mod folder?
lament ore
No, nothing from zhlt.wad actually ends up in the final map
they're "special" textures
so it doesn't need to be in the wad folder, although there's no harm in putting it there
proven agate
Thanks kind sir 
Mapping in JACK is soo depressing... 
(by the way i think that crazy geometry f%%% me in the future)
https://imgur.com/gDbyVmJ
There is really no way to add sum colors in here? (coz it’s not very pleasant to feel like a hero of a noir xD )
spiral nexus
add the DUSK wad through Quake configuration in JACK or make WAD3 using Wally
lament ore
- Remove all wads under Options->Game Profiles->Textures
- Select Quake map type under Options->Game Profiles->Game
- Under texture tab, select the quake.pal file from C:\Program Files\Jack\quake as the palette file
- Switch map type back to Half-Life
- Re-add WADs
You may have to repeat these steps if you add new WADs but otherwise it should remain loaded even though the palette file option grays out. This won't be a problem once we have a WAD3 version of Dusk.WAD. This fixes the Quake models as well.
small gate
it's an unofficial temporary solution, that's why it wasn't pinned I guess
ancient depot
1. Remove all wads under Options->Game Profiles->Textures
2. Select Quake map ty...
Temporary, but important while it's temporary
honest stag
wait what happened here
ancient depot
Nothing particularly, just pinned some support info for JACK users
honest stag
ah alright
lament ore
JACK chads*
honest stag
Yea i use J.A.C.K
J
A
Chad
K
lament ore
Just Another Chad, Kay?
honest stag
Yeah i use TB
Thad
B
small gate
yeah we're J.A.C.K.ing it, whats the matter 😎
lament ore
race war now
small gate
as if you could hup fast enough to beat us
spiral nexus
Virgin Trenchbroomers vs CHAD JACKs
fluid nimbus
raiden
squeeze my hog
rapid crown
@short sentinel here my dude 🤘
short sentinel
Thanks buddy!
rapid crown
No probs 👊
lament ore
hi @short sentinel welcome to the party
spiral nexus
mostly memes
short sentinel
That's looking good
lament ore
wussat
short sentinel
Don't tell oshry I'm here or il get in trouble
lament ore
oshry doesn't look in here. we're safe in this channel
do you have any experience mapping for quake or half-life or similar?
short sentinel
Twitter
That's hellscreen
I'm an environment artist but use maya mostly
Played around with Pro builder
lament ore
oooo. are you the main dev on hellscreen?
viscid sinew
noice
lament ore
I just looked up the trailer, that looks rad as hell buddy
you're probably gonna want to use TrenchBroom if you've never used any Quake mapping tools before, although we're split pretty even between TB and JACK in these parts
short sentinel
Trenchbroom I'm most interested in
I want to get to know it better for when I hire mappers for HS
lament ore
nice
lament ore
there's not much that TB can do that JACK can't and vice versa, difference is mostly in UI and how the tools operate
so up to preference p much
short sentinel
Plan is to get the demo done, get some funding and then look to the community to get stuff done
lament ore
super looking forward to how HS develops, looks cool as fug
rapid crown
What are you using for Hellscreen just now, Pro Builder or something? Assuming it's in Unity?
rapid crown
Ah
lament ore
Have you seen Realtime CSG? Gives you some of the functionality of quake mapping tools in Unity
short sentinel
But as long as trenchbroom can spit out objs I wouldn't mind people using that on HS
lament ore
iirc David plans on using it for future games
short sentinel
I think I tried that?
rapid crown
David has talked a out RCSG for future games I remember
The Dev for RCSG is making a new editor called Chisel. Looks promising
short sentinel
I want to investigate a maya vs tb/csg work flow for myself
lament ore
Orly? nice
short sentinel
Pros cons that type of thing
spiral nexus
Trenchbroom is more popular and it's recommended by Zombie and David, but since half of people have mapping experience from Source SDK - JACK is more natural to us
rapid crown
@short sentinel are you in the Trenchbroom discord? Or Quake Mapping one? The main Dev(s) hang out there
lament ore
TB/JACK/CSG are great for buildings, architecture, and the like. Blocky stuff. Maya and internal Unity tools work a lot better for Terrains
short sentinel
I'm not in the tb server
lament ore
What a lot of Source mappers will do is make the architecture in Hammer then "decorate" with models made in Maya/Blender/Sketchup/whatever
short sentinel
That's been my work flow too but from maya
spiral nexus
also TB has substantially more tutorials and documentation available, JACK is mostly trying to incorporate Source VHE knowledge
short sentinel
Level geo in maya, dress in unity
rapid crown
DM'd you @short sentinel
lament ore
JACK is almost a carbon copy of Hammer so p much all Hammer tutorials translate fine to JACK
which gives it a good 20 years of tutorial material lol
spiral nexus
there are some quirks to JACK compared to VHE, but usually you'll find things by Googling
lament ore
yeah JACK is/was essentially a rewrite from scratch of Hammer by a bunch of Russians. More stable and a couple extra features but essentially the same.
Sledge was another project with a similar ideology but sadly ceased development while still in beta
it's usable tho
Sledge is also open source unlike JACK
spiral nexus
I noticed in terms of videos, TB has more cohesive tutorials, 90% of VHE tutorials are people with toothbrush mics trying to explain for an hour how door works
lament ore
that's true but that's probably because there's only like two or three dudes making TB tuts so far lul
rapid crown
And Dumptruck is a professional video editor so he knows his shit
lament ore
Oh yeah, @short sentinel a big problem I've personally had with TB is the lack of primitives
short sentinel
Can you save stuff out? Like prefabs or templates?
lament ore
TB is great for free-handing weird shapes but it's unnecessarily obtuse to make simple shit like a cylinder or god forbid a dome
rapid crown
Yeah I shared it
fluid nimbus
kk
lament ore
in JACK you just select sphere lul. didn't say it was impossible, just obtuse
fluid nimbus
it was on the TB dev's twitter
lament ore
@short sentinel you can make one and copy paste it where needed but that's as close as you're getting to a prefab on that I think
lemme try to find that gif
short sentinel
Thats not too bad
lament ore
rapid crown
Ah it was Muk, thought it was Bal. TB definitely needs primitives, but I suspect the Dev will add them at some point
lament ore
not trying to knock TB too much tho, other than some missing things like primitives it's a great tool and I'd happily use it if JACK wasn't an option
rapid crown
I've never used Jack, but I'm comfortable with TB for now so will keep using it. I recognise it's shortcomings though
lament ore
yea like I said there's not much of anything that can't be done in one tool and not the other, it's mostly just preference
I do really wish TB had WAD3 support tho since Sven Co-op has a nice database of distributable WAD3 textures packs I can use in Dusk
lament ore
WAD2 is the format Quake uses and requires a palette file
WAD3 is used by Half-Life and each texture has their own unique palette of 256 colors
ancient depot
Yeah, that's basically the only difference
Although I believe WAD3 can still store textures that require a palette
fringe nymph
wait how do i use makewad.exe
small gate
surfaces by revolution, neat trick
fringe nymph
i need to make bat file?
lament ore
or call it from the command line
lament ore
you'll get it once you try it
ancient depot
As an example: makewad textures palette.lmp mywad.wad
lament ore
You can also use HLTextureTools to make a WAD3 or Wally for WAD2 or WAD3
if you want a GUI or a WAD3
fringe nymph
just like i expected it
short sentinel
Does the SDK let you mess around with the camera at all in unity? Effects etc
lament ore
darn shame TB doesn't have WAD3 support so HLTextureTools can't be used for that
ancient depot
Not currently, but we have some ideas to allow for custom shaders
fringe nymph
oh so makewad is solely for WAD2 not WAD3
ancient depot
It's not possible to directly support custom shaders in Unity without requiring modders to install the Unity editor though
and even then they have to distribute separate files for each platform
short sentinel
Ahhhhhh
lament ore
@fringe nymph currently yes but that'll probably change in the future
ancient depot
makewad will be getting WAD3 soon
lament ore
@ancient depot wanna hear a stupid idea
ancient depot
sure lol
short sentinel
Do it
lament ore
Unity Ubershader that emulates GLSL or something similar
ancient depot
that's literally the plan lol
small gate
fpga-like LUT implemented on GLSL with feedback shaders
what could possibly go wrong there
lament ore
anyone here ever read the Dolphin Developer write up of their Ubershader that emulates the GCN GPU ""shaders""
it's a wild ride
ancient depot
That's what inspired me, actually
lament ore
we are boomer kin zombie
ancient depot
I read it ages ago and I thought about it again a few weeks ago
then the idea hit me and I was like "wait..."
short sentinel
I'd love to do mod tools for hellscreen but honestly think it would be better just to port that shit to dusk
small gate
galaxy brain: hook d3d11 on your own app
short sentinel
Ha ha
fringe nymph
Quake/HL dosent have anything like Build Engine/ZDoom portals by default? (and i dont mean teleportation, and level transition would break the pace)
ancient depot
Once we release the source the plan is to start separating parts of it into packages you can install via the Unity package manager
So if you wanted, you could just install com.newblood.bsp or whatever
lament ore
@fringe nymph I don't think so but remind me of what portals in those engines are again pls
small gate
that is an absolutely beautiful idea
lament ore
it's been a LONG time since I messed with ZDoom
ancient depot
Seamless portals, probably
fringe nymph
^
ancient depot
Think of the game "Portal"
lament ore
oh shit you guys are releasing the source code to (parts of?) the SDK? fuck yea
ancient depot
They're useful for making non-euclidean geometry
lament ore
Ah, no, it does not
ancient depot
The entire source is being released when it's ready
fringe nymph
you go through linedef to be casted out of another linedef without interruption
lament ore
OH FUUUUUCK hell yeah
ancient depot
Likely under the MIT or ISC license
small gate
"portal" is such an annoying term, so many uses
ancient depot
Functionally identical licenses so it's not like it matters much to end users anyway
lament ore
I once wrote a portal implementation in unity that supported passing physics object through the portal but I could never get it quite right. There was something funky about applying forces when it was sitting in the middle of the portal
but if you just like, chucked it through the portal it'd work seamlessly
ancient depot
They're very hard to get right
lament ore
maybe I'll take another crack at it after I go through linear algebra in Uni lol
short sentinel
Unity package stuff sounds cool
lament ore
Hopefully I get my map done today because I won't be at truck gate next week so I won't be able to play on my laptop the entire day lol
@ancient depot you're gonna enable a fucking explosion of boomer shooters once you release that stuff. Just write a character controller, some weapons and enemies, and make your maps for Half-Life? my goodness
ancient depot
lmao
lament ore
Civvie's gonna have potential video content for decades
ancient depot
well you can technically already use TB to map for Unity, since it can export your map to .obj
although you can't import entities of course
lament ore
Yea but
yea
I should find my old build where I was implementing GoldSRC stuff in Unity
small gate
can't you just segment things on obj tho?
small gate
I didn't think about properties on the ents hm
lament ore
You could in theory just place all the ents in unity after you make the map but that'd be a bad workflow
ancient depot
I've got a whole bunch of stuff I wanna put out once we get the source ready, I just haven't announced any of it yet
Gotta gauge expectations lol
short sentinel
Or put down placehokder objects in tb and use a find in replace in unity?
small gate
I want to see that fucking language implementation that's for sure
ancient depot
Wouldn't work since you wouldn't have the entities at all
Since the entities are defined in a text file embedded in the BSP
short sentinel
Sure but if you had the equivalent prefabs set up in unity it would
It would be ass backward
Ha
onyx marten
is teleporting monsters in possible atm?
lament ore
well the obj export wouldn't have the entities obv but
ancient depot
Depends on how the .obj gets exported probably
lament ore
If you have corresponding entities you could write a serial importer and read from the .map fairly easily
ancient depot
Yeah, .map isn't hard to parse luckily
short sentinel
@ancient depot totally
ancient depot
@onyx marten If you can get them to walk into a trigger_teleport, yes
short sentinel
Tbh I'm guessing and talking out my ass because I haven't used tb yet
small gate
you could probably store ents as 0 volume geometry and use the comments to store properties
but that's absolutely disgusting and I love it
short sentinel
Haha
lament ore
The entities from .map are basically just copy pasted into the BSP anyway. It's actually fairly easy to edit the entities in a compiled map, you just can't change the architecture
onyx marten
ok so spawning em in when u pick up a key or something isnt?
short sentinel
Man I wish I got into mapping earlier
I mean I love using maya but there's a level of tech you don't get with that
lament ore
Idea to make monsters teleport: Have them in a box standing on a door. Pull the door out from under them forcing them to drop into the teleporter
would only work for non-flying enemies obviously
ancient depot
for flying enemies you could use a door to push them into the teleporter
onyx marten
yeah that seems like a good idea
lament ore
@short sentinel yeah mapping with any sort of mesh tool, Probuilder included, is a pain in the ass
oo good idea
lament ore
mister magoo your enemies into position
short sentinel
ACME monster removal
small gate
you could have a teleporter stuck parented to a crusher
so you can teleport monsters at different times
since you can have the teleporter brush geometry just go wild
lament ore
God I fucking wish I could find it but there was a tweet someone made about trying to get this complex sequence of events to work in GoldSRC and they eventually resorted to having like a train push something to fall into a trigger or something like that. Like just some wacky-ass rube goldberg shit
lament ore
oh god
no matter how badly made your game is it will never be as jank as a Bethesda game
short sentinel
I love that
lament ore
short sentinel
What do you folks do about level design? Any resources you use in particular or just run with it?
lament ore
What do you mean?
short sentinel
Like do you have guidelines for map layouts in terms of gameplay?
lament ore
AH
I've been on this journey the past few months
there is shockingly little literature on how to design maps for FPS gameplay
short sentinel
I'm quite hungover so I might not be wording stuff properly
Iv seen a couple of cool one shot images of tips etc
small gate
as a general rule of thumbs, play games you think are good, see what works and doesnt about level design
lament ore
Andrew Yoder has a great article on the "door" problem of FPS level design that is a great primer text on designing FPS enemy encounters
small gate
is the level design complimenting movement? does it make for fun encounters?
lament ore
There's an article on how FEAR places its cover that is a good read
still raptor
I think when I start a map, it's usually based on a single idea or objective
And expand from there
lament ore
Past that, it's really just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks