#SMP Punishments should NOT be network wide

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

warped wren
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Im going off of this: #smp-chat message, where it looks like if you're punished on the SMP, you'll be punished network wide.

Sure, this may seem like a good idea initially, it'll reduce the amount of cheaters and discourage it. However, I think you're forgetting one thing.

Players do not read, and they may assume cheats will just get them banned from the SMP. They'll cheat because they don't care much for the SMP, just want to mess around, and then when they get banned, they'll realise it is network wide.

Support will then get a flood of appeals, which will just waste their time. If one of the reasons externals were removed is because of the amount of time and money it was costing support, I can't imagine this will be much better.

It makes no sense for network-wide bans on the SMP when you think of it for more than a minute.

(Some punishments like toxicity mutes or severe bans should def still be network wide though, being banned for cheating/hacks should not.)

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oh and before someone like grpa fluffy one comes in here because i mentioned externals, no im not saying bring externals back, its just a reference

opal lynx
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I agree 100%

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Don't make it network wide for ALL

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But for slurs and stuff sure

silver steppe
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I'll say what I was saying from before, I don't think light punishments should be network wide. Someone does something, it gets counted on their record and the punishments get longer and longer. I think light punishments should just stay on the smp.

opal lynx
silver steppe
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I also agree with support getting more work because of the flood of appeals. I can just predict it.

viscid terrace
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I agree that something like hacking on the SMP shouldn't be a network-wide punishment, and I wonder how it will be handled

opal lynx
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Jamie suggested punishments are global

viscid terrace
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Yes, it is known that punishments will be global, but she hadn't commented on the message after it

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wait nevermind

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like 2 after it i guess

opal lynx
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On top of this tho we should have a configurable plugin to block cheaters from our server

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"blah blah some servers don't want this"

Then make it configurable

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Obviously some still get thru but

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Also people who say slurs

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Like yes we have a filter but its avoidable if they just cant access

cold hull
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Idea: automatically deny appeals from hackers in order to save support time

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This is not a joke if you consciously make the decision to cheat in Minecraft you should get banned and I don’t understand why anyone would feel differently

warped wren
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you do realise false bans happen right

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  • some servers allow cheats, what if someone forgot to turn off their cheats when switching servers?
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now they're banned from all of minehut

cold hull
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This is honestly a much larger issue that comes at the fault of support not having enough people in order to be able to moderate this efficiently and if Gamersafer wants to provide for the future of Minehut they would invest in upping the capabilities of their support team so that this would truly be possible to moderate

warped wren
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look you're entitled to your own opinion, but I and most likely majority of Minehut players think network wide punishments for hacks is an awful idea

cold hull
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But, regardless, I don’t think it matters that some servers allow cheats, the same way that some servers had AFK pits. It would be a decision by Gamersafer to make Minehut safer by removing cheating network wide, as cheating is bad, and should not be allowed, on any server related to Minehut if the goal is to offer this space for creators and fair play players

warped wren
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cheating is not inherently bad

cold hull
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Womp womp

warped wren
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😭

cold hull
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That is the wrong answer

warped wren
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okay man im just going to leave this argument you do you man

cold hull
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I’m just waiting for one example in all of history, in all of competitive and non-competitive games, activities, even just the simplest of actions, where cheating, where purposefully making the conscious decision to break the rules of the game you’re engaging in, to give yourself advantages and boosts that the standard, non-cheating player would not have, is not “inherently bad”

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And when that is like actually explained to me, when someone can actually convince me that cheating is not inherently bad, then maybe I’ll be able to change my viewpoint on how it should be seen on Minehut

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But until then hackers need to be banned network wide

warped wren
warped wren
cold hull
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Glad I said maybe because this is probably the easiest thing to just completely get rid of off of Minehut

warped wren
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okay, heres a few more examples

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Some games have inbuilt cheat codes to give players advantages

cold hull
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It probably encompasses .00001% of Minehut servers and only falls on other things like 2b2t to carry that. Minehut could easily remove hacking and have no loss playerbase actually playing these servers because they really don’t exist, really don’t need to exist, harbor cheaters (who are often also racist on these servers, like 2b2t)

warped wren
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what about mods, should they be banned too?

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What if your using hacks to test an anticheat

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speedrunning games

cold hull
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Have minehut offer anticheat as either an included, or if gs wants money, a paid feature to be included in your server purchase

warped wren
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some players need cheats for accessibility

cold hull
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No they don’t

warped wren
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some people like to cheat in games with their friends in a friendly way

cold hull
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Then don’t on Minehut

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This is like easy

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If you want to be someone who is a hacker, don’t hack on the network meant to be safe

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This feels like super self explanatory

warped wren
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i feel like im speaking to a brick wall coated in soundproof foam

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Cheats dont make a network unsafe

cold hull
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I feel like we don’t get the gamersafer values and what minehut and the network should become

cold hull
# warped wren Cheats dont make a network unsafe

I feel like they very often do, and tie to ddossers, racism, transphobia, people who in general who don’t care about rules and are okay with being worse people for reactionary value in order to ruin the experience of others

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I think this is commonplace especially on Minecraft

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Some people may use cheats for things that can be considered less harmful to others but I think it’s undeniable that people like this exist and definitely hurt spaces meant to be safe as Gamersafer wants to provide throughout Minehut

warped wren
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I'd say i've meet more racist non cheaters than cheaters

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should we instead ban all non cheaters and make it so you can only cheat on minehut?

cold hull
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No we just ban the racists and the cheaters

warped wren
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but your reason for banning the cheaters was "they very often do, and tie to ddossers, racism, transphobia, people who in general who don’t care about rules"

cold hull
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I almost said something reeeeeeeal bad

warped wren
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sounds like you should be banned

cold hull
warped wren
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okay

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so tell me

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how do cheats make a network unsafe

cold hull
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Cheats are often tied to clients that have other features that are dangerous to servers. I’m ngl bro you just sound like a cheater trying to defend it too

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Especially with the no pfp you kinda got hacked on the downlow and are trying to siphon data or smth

warped wren
# cold hull Cheats are often tied to clients that have other features that are dangerous to ...

Cheats are often tied to clients that have other features that are dangerous to servers
From what I know it depends on the client, but that doesnt mean the people with these clients use those specific tools. You can do a lot of shady stuff on the internet, but we shouldn't imprison everyone that googles a cake recipe.

I’m ngl bro you just sound like a cheater trying to defend it too
Don't think i've ever cheated on a minecraft server before. I've owned a couple succesful servers in the past, I know its annoying to deal with cheaters but it's up to you to enforce your rules.

Especially with the no pfp you kinda got hacked on the downlow and are trying to siphon data or smth
I don't even have a response for this comment

cold hull
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I am also completely okay with compromise and I think Gamersafer would very easily be able to add a server tag that says “allows Hacking” that servers could add manually and for free in the panel. Then, if a hacker were to be banned from a non-hacking network, their account would be limited to Hacking Allowed servers only, not removing their ability to play Minehut, but in tandem removing hackers from fair play spaces.

warped wren
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That seems like a whole lot of work for something so unnecessary. The only bans that should be network wide are severe ones that actually affect/target/harass other people or servers.

cold hull
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I feel like it’s not a whole lot of work, to offer a safe, fair play space for servers to grow on Minehut with the provided ability of hacker protection, potentially purchasable as an addon to your server

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Lowkey I’m trying to help everyone here

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Optional purchasable anticheat provided as a safety ability from Gamersafer where hackers will be banned from your server and all anticheat connected servers

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And hackers can still play non connected servers

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I think I might be crazy genius

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Free money gamersafer lock in

warped wren
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as long as users that are banned from one server are not automatically banned from all others, unless they were banned by minehut

cold hull
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I mean they would be banned from all others that had also purchased the anticheat coverage

warped wren
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Well that seems extremely abusable

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one guy buys the anticheat bans a bunch of randoms boom no one can play minehut

cold hull
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They can still play minehut

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Just not anticheat connected servers

warped wren
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okay do some critical thinking here

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say you own a server with this anticheat

cold hull
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It’s optional if you want to purchase the anticheat on your own server

warped wren
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and I don't like you so i go and start a server, buy the anticheat then ban you from my servver

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now you cannot play your server

cold hull
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I feel like you don’t get what an anticheat does

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It’s not manual bans from players its an anticheat that detects cheating and removes it

warped wren
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anticheats that automatically issue bans are bad anticheats

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there is no anticheat that does not constantly throw false positives

cold hull
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You wouldn’t be able to target ban a guy you’d have a gamersafer dedicated service watching your connected server if you yourself make the decision to purchase access

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False positives would have to be support tickets, and gamersafer should invest in growing the support team if they want a safer and more supported Minehut, especially if they want to continue growing as a company and a team

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This is money they would have to spend absolutely and coincidentally I’m giving them an idea to sell an anticheat that could potentially make them some more money

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If Gamersafer wants Minehut to grow and wants their company to grow then they will probably want to grow their team and that will probably mean wanting to grow their support team which will mean they need more money to support and sustain this growth which means they need new money opportunities. This is long term lots of work type idea that hopefully at the end of the day makes everything better

warped wren
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I think you underestimate how difficult it is to make an anticheat and constantly keep it updated every week to ensure all the new cheats and exploits are fixed

cold hull
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I think you are pushing this down for no reason. It doesn’t matter if it’s difficult. It doesn’t matter if it costs money or needs more people because hard things needs to happen in order for furthered growth and success and in this case that means trying to actually lock in on what Gamersafer is actually trying to achieve in their company mission and why they purchased Minehut and what they can create if they just make the push towards it happening

warped wren
cold hull
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Oh I absolutely think it would take bonkas time to complete I never said that they were fast or even good at finishing things they say they already are doing

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But gamersafer just so happens to have a partnership with Mojang already

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As a company keep growing and growing and growing and then you’ll be able to do things faster

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And in order to do that make more money

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Capitalize on partnerships perhaps

warped wren
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wait

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were you that guy that was saying minehut should partner with mojang to make the official minecraft server host

cold hull
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Gamersafer already partners with mojang to do that

warped wren
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no they have the server list

cold hull
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They already own the official minecraft server list yes

warped wren
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they are not the official host

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the official host is minecraft realms

cold hull
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Presented by Gamersafer

warped wren
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Yes that says list

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not host

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very different

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anyway we're very off topic here

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Im just going to reiterate here, your ideas are good in theory, but in practice would be extremely difficult to implement

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and i've got stuff to do so ill respond in a few hours maybe

cold hull
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Correct. However, if this partnership between the two companies already exists, is it possible to expand and build on that partnership? Potentially gain funding for your company to build safety into Minecraft, funding going towards company growth, etc

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Again hypotheticals but I’m just tryna say these are all things that in some world could exist (maybe with difficulty) and would, if the work was put in, would make everything better for (nearly) everyone

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I’m off to bed now and I always get scared that when I talk about this stuff I’ll wake up in the morning and a mod will have decided that I talked too much and have smitten me from the server for 7 days, because that happens so frequently and is never addressed, even if talked about, so I hope this isn’t the case tonight as I really am trying to have these ideas based purely in what actually makes sense for the future for everyone and not trying to be rude or anything like that

red wagon
opal lynx
cold hull
# opal lynx ok but that isnt their policy??

I think this falls in line with AFK pits on Minehut. While it may be a server’s choice currently to allow hackers or not, it is in general bad to cheat on Minecraft and in any game, and therefore removing all hacking would be better for server growth, network growth, Minehut offerings, etc.

Realistically the only people who would not benefit from this change are 1) hackers who don’t want to be caught cheating, and 2) the very very very very small amount of server owners on Minehut that happen to own these types of server. Because of that, like how some did not like removing AFK pits, the greater good of the future would be put as a more important view rather than appeasing the 10 people who want people to hack on their servers

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And then at the end of the day you can still just go play 2b2t if you want to have a minecraft hacking server experience

opal lynx
cold hull
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Hacking punishments should be global because hacking is cheating and cheating should be punished. Some people don’t want that because that means hackers won’t be able to play “ the other areas of minehut”, which like, idk why you would want cheaters in any form but you do you…

but in my mind the situation should be comparable as it’s getting rid of something bad, that some people happen to like, but regardless of their want to harbor cheaters, it’s still bad, and the decision should be made to disregard what those people feel in order for the future to be better

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I’m not changing the subject, I’m using an example of something that happened in the very recent past to prove why an equal reaction should be made towards doing a similar thing

white arch
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holy yappedy yapatrons

warped wren
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I like how alexkndy added 3 different downvote emojis to make it look like more people disagree

warped wren
cold hull
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I somehow got rid of the thumbs down just now idk what I did

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The other downvote I cannot remove on discord mobile

cold hull
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If someone cheats on a server, especially one where cheating is not allowed, almost always will they continue hacking on other servers and continue being malicious

jolly shore
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"if someone ran a redlight once obviously they'll do it again, lets just suspend their license for life!"

opal lynx
cold hull
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Wildly problematic that so many players on Minehut are okay with cheating, especially since you yourself, as the conscious player, need to make the active decision to use neurons and move your fingers and your mouse in order to search for, download, and then begin using a client designated to give you an unfair advantage against legit players in a video game

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YES, if someone thinks the Minehut SMP is a stupid idea, and they cannot contain themselves so much as to the point where they cannot hold it in and they MUST start killaura-ing other players and xraying, they should be banned, because THEY CHOSE TO BREAK THE RULES

opal lynx
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Wildly problematic that players don't understand that it IS NOT minehuts policy too ban cheating

cold hull
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It should be

opal lynx
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ITS NOT THO

cold hull
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That is what this is

opal lynx
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I don't know why you can't understand that

cold hull
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Then m a k e i t h a p p e n

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Idk why you can’t get that

opal lynx
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Idk why you can't understand that it doesn't NEED to happen

cold hull
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Company with money can make this decision to finally be the last server besides 2b2t and some baby nobody servers to not allow cheaters to cheat on their network

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Like they can just flip that switch and start doing it

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And it’s not currently, but they could

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And even though your perceived need of it is less, if minehut is trying to grow as a friendly, safe to play ecosystem for more than just server hosting, then hacking should be banned, and hackers should be banned, because hacking is cheating, and cheating should not be allowed

red wagon
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If minehut actually wanted to block cheaters they'd block vpns

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All your hackers will just return with a vpn and an alt from an alt service

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Doing a network wide ban is also stupid for non-serious offenses (and yes, hacking on a smp isn't that serious)

cold hull
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I don’t think a single person will be able to convince me why cheating is not top 3 serious offenses

cold hull
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Everything in this following section is a true statement proven by fact.

Gamersafer wants to turn Minehut into a growing ecosystem, not just a server host.

Gamersafer wants fair and safe play in gaming, per what their company mission is.

Hacking is, by definition, using methods not present in a regular player’s game to gain an unfair advantage, either in a competitive or non-competitive environment.

Hacking is cheating.

Gamersafer plans on offering Minehut official experiences for players where cheating should not be allowed.

Gamersafer already offers a large amount of player hosted servers, in which a majority of them do not allow hacking or cheating.

A very proportionately small amount of servers exist, especially on Minehut, that allow hacking and cheating as part of their gameplay.

A very proportionately small amount of servers exist even outside of Minehut where hacking is allowed as well. A majority of all Minecraft servers disallow cheating, which means that hacking is banned.

Because of all of these factually true statements, it only makes sense that in the future of Minehut, hacking will need to be addressed as an issue, if their goal as a company is to continue growing and providing the space they say they want to provide for other players.

I’ve suggested different methods for compromise and to allow cheaters on servers that would not be connected via a purchasable hacker block/anticheat that Gamersafer themselves could offer at an upcharge to your server plan, meaning that 1) server owners would have to choose to pay to opt in only if they want to have protection, 2) hackers would only be banned from servers that pay to be connected, being able to play on unconnected servers, 3) Gamersafer would make money from server creators who want to have the protection only.

^ This idea feels like a band-aid and hacking should just be punished as cheating is wrong, but to appease people who like to cheat in child block games (i guess) it’s a possible solution to make everyone happy

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Yes I’m yapping, not being able to read a long message is not a flex and means your attention span is cooked and maybe you just didn’t get a good 2nd grade education but I’ll just assume tiktok messed you up

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I’m serious about this because it’s serious

opal lynx
cold hull
opal lynx
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Got it

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I'm done engaging you are literally a brick wall of stupidness

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I'm tired of trying to explain in nice terms after you just insulted us

cold hull
opal lynx
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So leave

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We don't need you here with your insults

cold hull
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I don’t think that’s an insult I think that’s a correct description of the game we’re playing

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It’s a block game, that was made for children

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If you hack in that game you’re weird

cunning quarry
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I like turkey.

dull sonnet
jolly shore
warped wren
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yeah me too tbh

jolly shore
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yoo we should make a hacker clan

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thats just filled with a bunch of ghost cheaters

warped wren
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yo and then lets target this guy

opal lynx
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He's probably not even going to play

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He's just here to argue

cold hull
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Yall some d1 haters it’s okay when you got haters you know you made it 👆🥹 GOD DID 💯

opal lynx
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Breaking rules trying to argue a stupid argument against rule breakers

cold hull
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For that, 2/10 good try

opal lynx
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Go make a different post about hackers

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You are off topic

cold hull
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This entire conversation feels like you angry with me for being on topic and disagreeing with the original post to the point of trying to shun me out of the space because I’ve made a fair and correct point that contradicts what the OP posted

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And then you and two admitted hackers saying they’re going to hack on me when I play the SMP that I clearly care about because I’m engaging in conversations and suggestions

opal lynx
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Can you read please

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?

opal lynx
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Which is seperate from this topic

cold hull
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This is absolutely on topic

opal lynx
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It's not

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Hacking shouldn't be allowed is seperate from the punishments issued being network wide

cold hull
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It’s not my fault you cannot correlate two comparable topics into one combined idea

slender merlin
# cold hull This is not a joke if you consciously make the decision to cheat in Minecraft yo...

1st off: anarchy.
2nd of all: I use meteor for qol and bug finding to help server owners
3rd: i will tell you right now around 40% of minehut's playerbase uses cheats of some sort
4th: cheats are incredibly useful when testing anti cheats
5th: fighting fire with fire actually works. hacking on a hacker literally gets rid of them 90% of the time
6th: i remember (tangent, not needed to read) one time where there was a hacker in boop arena, no kb and also had ka (they were afk too). no mods online, so no help. therefore, I and literally like 15 other players gathered around that player and got them packet kicked. none of us hurt eachother, it was literally just regular players with hacked clients stopping an actual hacker.
7th: dont ban me for that i think my cause is justafiable
8th: other reasons

slender merlin
warped wren
hollow chasm
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I dont want to speak on behalf of the admins here, but I would be very surprised if chat punishments didnt carry over to the lobby. We carry punishments from event servers across the whole network. Cheating im less inclined to carry over since the risk of a cheater in the lobby is less than someone who spams slurs.

warped wren
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Oh no i totally agree with chat punishments

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this post is mainly about cheating and hacking and how it shouldn't be network wide

inland oxide
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mainly so that ppl that do play anarchy servers don't have to worry about being banned in lobby for hacks lol

fossil silo
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also would like to point out exploiting is not inherently cheating

cold hull
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Like what do you consider falls in that category

fossil silo
cold hull
tidal prawn
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We will be treating the SMP just like we would any other server on our platform, which means a Minehut punishment for rule violations.

opal lynx
tidal prawn
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For player servers it is up to the server to decide what they want to enforce in terms of hacking, in this case we are the server owner and it's part of our moderation space which means it will be a Minehut punishment.

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that being said, we are reviewing the rules today to ensure everything is in alignment and explained

cold hull
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LETS GOOOOO w decision

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Even if hacking is not banned network wide, if you make the decision to actively cheat on a Minehut official server, you should be banned from the network, at least temporarily

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Glad to see Minehut is balling

opal lynx
cold hull
opal lynx
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It's kinda funny

cold hull
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Yes because saying things like balling and w makes me a child 😐