#External Servers being available without being partner again

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

crude shoal
scarlet geyser
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Do you have a suggestion about how to actually achieve this without having the problems they were having? Just making them available probably won't happen but if you have a way to solve their problem then then it becomes more likely

crude shoal
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Unless they don't want other big servers to pop up on minehut

scarlet geyser
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They won't be enabled again until there's a solution to their problem lol

crude shoal
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Most professional servers started off as externals

crude shoal
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All of these updates are kinda bad

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Afk, Chat Filter and Externals changes are all going to reduce the amount of players on minehut

scarlet geyser
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Unfortunately, some external servers have been used to bypass our community standards, which goes against everything we stand for.

crude shoal
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I think the problem is that

crude shoal
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if its not having a chat filter, can't you suspend the server anyway?

scarlet geyser
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Probably all of them, quoting from the rules page "Due to the nature of how external hosted servers work when connected to Minehut, our staff are unable to widely moderate or act on behaviors which occur on those servers" I suppose that this was too common

crude shoal
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Honestly all bad changes

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I can't even make a server now, without waiting like a month to maybe become a partner

scarlet geyser
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Suggest a solution for their problem and maybe they'll bring back external servers

sharp nacelle
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upvote
This affects me so much. Leaf runs on my server and I have bosses that work on them. I have tested them on Leaf and PaperMC and I can say that it runs faster and better on leaf due to it's world ticking & optimisations. With Paper, the server TPS can lower down to 10 with 1 boss. Unless Minehut plans to allow me to add any server.

sharp nacelle
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Like ban the owner or maybe the owner's IP address as well

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and the server's

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For like 6 months

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Maybe it really strict to scare people to not doing it

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Because I really want to keep my external server 🙏🏾

outer briar
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another reason is that external servers are less than 1% of active servers but take up 40% of support's time. they cost a lot more money than people may think

sharp nacelle
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Like mainly

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Because I really just want to say "tell people that they would get less support and minehut won't help them with linking their external server unless it's a bug"

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Because people using an external server should know how to run their own servers

outer briar
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support isn't the only thing that support does. they do a lot more stuff like reports which ties back into what emily was saying above. when you are using a minehut hosted server, minehut has logs for a lot of stuff. but not when using an external server

errant mica
scarlet geyser
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I believe before they were read every two weeks but I assume that will be done more often now

wanton zealot
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staff are going to be bogged down with a bunch of applications now, so I dont see how this system makes it more streamlined

pliant warren
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They’ll also be less crowded with support tickets around externals

wanton zealot
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fair enough, but its not like ppl who are releasing new externals through the new system wont have issues either. Its just that you're restricting a number of players from even starting an external.

lapis jewel
outer briar
lapis jewel
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External Server: 41.50% (349) | Players: 2185
Pro: 5.95% (50) | Players: 293
Custom plan: 17.60% (148) | Players: 187
Standard: 16.29% (137) | Players: 478
Ultimate: 3.92% (33) | Players: 74
YEARLY Standard: 0.59% (5) | Players: 21
Starter: 13.79% (116) | Players: 176
YEARLY Pro: 0.24% (2) | Players: 7
YEARLY Ultimate: 0.12% (1) | Players: 1

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This isn't tho

outer briar
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Online servers and active servers are different

lapis jewel
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what do you consider active?

outer briar
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Also the api only shows public servers. There are many non public ones

lapis jewel
outer briar
outer briar
lapis jewel
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This is gonna be bad tho if you guys don't allow people using external plans without being a partner

outer briar
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Refer to all the reasons described above

errant mica
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On a scale of 1/10 how hard is it to get partner and what do you need to have to get it.

lapis jewel
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External Servers represent 60% of Minehut player base, making this feature to only partners will slow the players. When a server owner start he oftenly choose the first plan (the cheapest one), and then if his server grow up he mostly choose to get on a external plan because it's cheaper and work largely better than minehut ones

pliant warren
lapis jewel
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or I'am just into nothing

pliant warren
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Most are actually not

scarlet geyser
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I mean those big servers could apply for partner and easily be big once more

lapis jewel
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just by using the public data the numbers are alr high

pliant warren
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The public data doesn’t mean the entirety of Minehut follows the same ratios

lapis jewel
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ah, yeah then yes i agree now

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but are these servers big?

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or these smp only has like 1 - 5 players

pliant warren
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They still make up a huge percentage of Minehut, while externals are not the majority

lapis jewel
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On the data total_players, the player count is the official one?

"total_players": 4064,
"total_servers": 1460,
"total_search_results": 848,

scarlet geyser
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Is that the players/servers online right now?

lapis jewel
scarlet geyser
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If that's what it says in-game then that is the official one

lapis jewel
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It do not exacly match

eMM0vwO.png KF62Y1n.png
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but the api send the player count lively tho

scarlet geyser
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Ah I'm not sure how that one works

woven sorrel
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This is also insanely stupid.

crude shoal
pliant warren
lapis jewel
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"Most" is not a value

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could be 90%, 51% 60%

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we don't know

pliant warren
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"majority" would be by definition false, when most of the players are on internal servers

lapis jewel
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The majority of players with +(30 to 40) players are on internal servers?

warm charm
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Wouldn't a better solution to this problem be suspending the proxy of external servers breaking Minehut rules? (I know very little about how proxies actually work, sorry if this is something that isn't possible).

crude shoal
obsidian hamlet
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this is a way to make money

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its so people purchase there plans

crude shoal
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Fr

lapis jewel
crude shoal
compact gorge
# pliant warren False, https://discord.com/channels/239599059415859200/364502598805356545/141554...

The majority are playing free server, whitelisted SMP, with 2-3 friends, where nobody has to report anyone because it's whitelisted and you could just ban rule breakers. How has anyone on the team just forgotten that? The servers with more than 40+ players HAVE to be on external. Minehut's hosting plans have genuinely a bad reputation of crashing without logs when it gets too much plus the fact that most servers are usign skript which makes the lag problem even worse. You guys dont even specify what CPU you use and just say "Pro CPU" or smth. it's not even specific

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If you make minehut's plan better then most server owners would be happily to switch from external to minehut

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Most external servers are external solely because minehut's specs are bad. Every server owner has started out from using minehut's hosted servers, then getting 30-35 players, then it crashing every 18-24h without crash logs then switching to external immediately solving the issue. Plus the fact that the entirety of minehut crashes like once every 7 days causing every server to go down which is an inconvenience itself.

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The solution is to make minehut's specs or whatever better, or could make it "external" but connected to a partnered server host provider

crude shoal
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I completely agree

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This is such a bad update

lapis jewel
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Tbh I think it's one of the best message which explain why this external server change is bad

odd idol
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for me personally, the change would be made less annoying if:

  • the panel didnt kill my laptop(less of an issue now that I have a new laptop, but Its still not something I can leave open and not notice)
  • plans allowed more storage than 40G storage
  • minehut had custom jars or executables(other than the hacky fix we have now)
sharp nacelle
reef drift
odd idol
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im using an ad blocker

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of course its worse without one, but its still not a fast site

eternal lily
warm charm
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They could disable that account from purchasing external plans

odd idol
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accounts are free

pliant warren
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We already tried suspending servers (and then the servers they make to evade that), it was not enough which led to this step

compact gorge
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then make it more expensive? literally free money each ban

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they evade 1000 times so u earn 1000 * whatever the price is

drowsy willow
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People will still buy external servers to break the rules, some people just don’t care about money.

outer briar
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I remember someone getting their external server suspended 9 times before, they don't really care about the price. Also increasing it wouldn't help either. Say Minehut doubled the price of the current external plan and they get reported. The cost of doing that investigation will be a lot more than the cost of the plan itself. And doing the investigation itself is difficult as well since Minehut does not have as many logs of external servers as they do internal servers. Many people who get suspended on internal servers purposefully move to external servers because they know Minehut can't moderate them as easily.

compact gorge
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mm maybe

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but i saw the application for minehut partners, it's kindof backwards. to apply you need a FindMCServer, which u need a server released in the first place. Most owners would want to release on minehut, and not release, wait 1 week for findmcserver to approve, then wait 2 weeks for minehut partners to approve

outer briar
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your server doesnt need to be approved on FMCS, just needs to be added. Which all you need to do is fill out some information about the server.

fossil wyvern
compact gorge
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aight

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thats very relieving info

odd idol
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without helping the actual problem

crisp gulch
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forcing servers that previously had external host that expired into the free plan instead of giving the renew option like all the other plans do is so stupid though

crisp gulch
odd idol
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correct

outer briar
odd idol
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I have one external thats been expired for like, 6 months, and its still good

crisp gulch
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cant renew it

outer briar
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if its on the free plan, then you chose not to renew it at some point and it got put back on the free plan

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there will be a renew button when a plan expires. when that happens, that button will always exist unless you choose not to renew it

crisp gulch
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yes but previously there was a renew button now it automatically got forced into the starter plan

odd idol
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just checked, the server expired on january 22nd, and its still there

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with the little renew button

crisp gulch
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cause i checked like a week and a half ago it had the renew button

odd idol
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hmm, mines still there

outer briar
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when you press renew, it gives you 2 options. a downgrade button on the left and buy credits on the right. you probably at some point pressed the downgrade one

crisp gulch
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i for sure didnt but ill check my other server and see if it has the renew button rq cause i havent logged into that account in months so theres no way it couldve changed

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alright well these ones are still here at least so thats good 🙏

image.png
sharp nacelle
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Who's downvoting ts 😭🙏🏾

limpid wasp
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Personally here's my solution: make applying to be a minehut partner not require the listing your server. It took almost 2 months just for them to think about reviewing my server on there when I tried in the past only for them to tell me something was wrong with it

sharp nacelle
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Are admins actually gonna do anything about this or is it a lost cause

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I feel like the whole thing is more of a problem with Minehut's moderation rather than server owners

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If 10 players who play on Hypixel break rules, will you ban all Hypixel players?

crisp gulch
sharp nacelle
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ts is so peak 😢

outer briar
outer briar
crimson moat
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I got rejected cause they added that in. Now i have to wait again

sharp nacelle
outer briar
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added what in

sharp nacelle
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I think

crimson moat
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No

outer briar
crimson moat
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Never had it in

outer briar
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had what in?

odd idol
crimson moat
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The vote site link

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On the application process

outer briar
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if you are talking about adding your server to FMCS, thats always been a requirement

sharp nacelle
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Really strict

crimson moat
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Im saying that it had never shown up to me

odd idol
sharp nacelle
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I meant

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server owner's ip

odd idol
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now of course, it doesnt really solve the issue of people just hopping, but it does make it harder

outer briar
sharp nacelle
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I meant the owner's ip address

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and name

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perm banned

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like extremely strict because like why do I have to be affected cuz of them

outer briar
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vpns and stuff exist but going back, how do you actually enforce and verify those rules in the first place

sharp nacelle
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or all the other server owners who aren't actually experiencing this

sharp nacelle
odd idol
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yesish

outer briar
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minehut has more logs for internal servers than they do external servers.

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they can't verify stuff as easily for stuff happening on external servers

odd idol
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minehut has access to more stuff, though yes, server hopping to avoid suspensions is still possible with internals

sharp nacelle
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Recordings for proof?

outer briar
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minehut doesnt use those as proof. things like that can easily be faked

sharp nacelle
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oh, right

outer briar
sharp nacelle
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tbf

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i js dont wanna be affected by ts 🙏🏾

odd idol
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though honestly, I do worry that minehuts falling into an iffy habit if they are relying on anything inside the containers themselves for logging

outer briar
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minehut has separate logging thats used for internal servers than whats on the server itself

odd idol
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its more just the lack of transparency regarding it, and the mildly concerning history of "cheeto deadbolts"

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anyways, there is a decent chance its fine, but as somebody whos generally skeptic of non-transparent systems, its a red flag

outer briar
odd idol
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if its done right though, that shouldnt really be possible

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relying on people not knowing how a system works is basically the definition of security through obscurity

limpid wasp
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Can I dm you about something related to partnering?

outer briar
outer briar
odd idol
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and that makes me concerned, because in my mind, lack of transparency has a tendancy to lead to "holding your cards so close not even you see them"

outer briar
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thats not really something normal users need to know, the admins have already explained that the logs they have can't be modified by the server in any way

odd idol
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well thats my issue, I find it really hard to trust black box systems, that and, the admins word only reassures me a little, mostly given everybody makes mistakes, and I far prefer to see and believe, rather than be told and believe

outer briar
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there isn't really any reason or benefit for Minehut to share detailed information on how internal tools work. they are internal for a reason. it would just lead to malicious people trying to do bad stuff with it. no other companies do it for a reason.

odd idol
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I dont care about detailed information, I care a lot more about an actual statement that they are doing it right, outside the container, and one thats not a passing note in #general, and also, yes, other companies share how their tools work

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but needless to say, im a strong believer that nothing on the container should be trusted

outer briar
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why would there need to be an official announcement about it? thats not really information a normal user would need to know or would care about. and minehut has shared in the past how their systems work as well when asked about, just not detailed information. and like I said multiple times so far, the logs that Minehut uses cannot be modified by the server itself in anyway. if it could, there would be a lot more punishments with fake logs/messages.

odd idol
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I dont need an official announcement, just a passing note in the general channel isnt really a great source for me

outer briar
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what other kind of message is there?

odd idol
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at this point, I would take a message really anywhere that was something other than a single point in a debate

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that and, from what I know of the chat logging system as of a *2 months ago(specifically querying the data), it wasnt particularly good sounding #general message

outer briar
outer briar
odd idol
outer briar
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yes, their current solution referencing the current solution that was being suggested

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the next message says "their estimations was pretty low compared to real world traffic" talking about the estimates of the solution that was being suggested

odd idol
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no, it wasnt lol

odd idol
outer briar
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santio's above messages was suggesting to use clickhouse for logging saying there is no reason to reinvent the wheel. then set is saying its to improve on the current design and then santio said that their solution referencing what was being suggested is worse than just using something like clickhouse cause it cant do things like indexes, filtering, and your estimates were lower than real traffic

odd idol
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guess I misread that then, though to be fair, it does support indexes, and filtering

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but in any case, it might be a me issue with having a hard time trusting black boxes

ripe dock
# crude shoal This is regarding the recent announcement in <#240269653358805003>

Honestly when I first heard of the possibility of making Externals exclusive to Partners, I was skeptical. But after seeing all the reasons, it totally makes sense to me.

With 50% of all support staff time being used on external servers, which only make up about 1% of all servers (if I'm remembering correctly) is an insane cost which I never considered until it was explained to me.

Making them require a review is a good idea, and there's not really a reason to have a separate review process from the partner review process, because I imagine Minehut staff will be looking for the exact same qualities in an external server as in a parnter server.

I think the real thing that needs to be fixed here is hosting internally on Minehut. This is a much bigger problem to solve, but it's an actual long-term solution which benefits Minehut in the long run (as opposed to reverting the External Servers change, which will hurt Minehut in the long run).

We need internally hosted dedicated plans, and a really good panel for internally hosted servers. Maybe even a hardware upgrade. Making it worthwhile to host internally would be far better for the company long-term than reverting this change, and would likely be better for players too.

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As for alternatives

Making it more expensive will just make things worse for poor server owners (like me) while rich trolls still won't care, having a separate review process would be pointless since Minehut will be looking for the same qualities in both external and partner servers. Banning accounts that misuse external servers doesn't matter because they can always make new accounts.

ripe dock
# crude shoal Honestly all bad changes

AFK change is objectively good. Source: https://gamerdorks.net/minehut-is-not-dying

Chat filter change is objectively good. Source: (google search "why are slurs bad")

Gamer Dorks
Gamer Dorks
“Minehut Is Dying” – Thoughts on the AFK Rewards Update

This is an opinion piece by Carolyn, one of the administrators. Gamer Dorks works in partnership with Minehut, and Carolyn is an active member of the Minehut and Minehut Partners communities. This blog post is nevertheless designed to be unbiased…

reef drift
# ripe dock AFK change is objectively good. Source: https://gamerdorks.net/minehut-is-not-dy...

Chat filter change is a wait-and-see, but I think it's important to allow a toggle for servers that wish to use a different chat filter or already have a setup that they like. I am also concerned that the worst parts of the chat filter (blocking stuff that isn't a big deal like "1984", "∞", ordinary swear words, etc) could be included in this. What would be nice is to have different filter levels that could be selected from on the panel.

spare hound
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So how do partnerships work now?

void crag
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but is this going to be changed?

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i completely agree with @crude shoal