Legendary consumables!

[rotund marten]

Just a list of ideas for leg consumables to give the legendary mats more uses. There was a different list of suggestions in the old channel, but I don't remember most of them, so I'd encourage readers with other ideas to leave them on this thread.

• Divine justice: either outright eliminates or reduces the HP and armour of ONE (1) enemy unit by 90% for 3 seconds to make it easy to eliminate. (Think enemy catapults or centurions) (Based on the AoM godpower "Lightning") (5min cooldown - Age 2 required)

• Chronos's Slumber: adds 5 minutes to any time limit on quests. (Single use per quest? - Age 4 required)

• Vitruvian Order: summons 3 engineers. (5 min cooldown - Age 3 required)

• Hermetic Order: summons 3 clinici.(5 min cooldown - Age 3 required)

• Daedalus's gift: summons 5 ballistae.(5 min cooldown - Age 4 required)

• Flutter's fury: summons 8 blade charriots (5min cooldown - Age 3 required)

• Huginn and Muninn: summons 2 invulnerable seer ravens that last twice as long as the MS days ones. (5min cooldown - Age 2 required)

• Cornucopia: grants the player 1.000 units of each resource, as a weaker version of Resources of the empire (suggested by MusicTopia) (5min countdown - Age 1 required)

[shy edge]

Yesss! I was just thinking about this the other day. I’m pretty sure it’s on the board already but I’m 100% for this happening.

Even just the standard consumable units but much stronger stats I think would be popular.

[tame swift]

Legendary consumables were gonna happen already I think

I just don't think it was set in stone what kind, so it's useful to already brainstorm what kind of consumables could happen or not

These are my suggestions so far

Gathered from community suggestions but also my own

[shy edge]

This would be perfect to drop before an event to get people to chase the recipes from chests.

I approve this list

I wonder how hard consumables are to implement.

[tame swift]

Oh right... legendary consumable recipes would add to the current ones making the 'new' material/leggy craftables even more rare... oh fuck

[rotund marten]

I mean, I doubt that's bad. It will definitely feel very difficult to get them at first, but much like event gear... Eventually most players will have recipies

It's just gonna take them a while >:3
Which is all the better. Keeps the "legendary" feeling rare, at least with consumables

[tame swift]

I will absolutely feel bad if I drop a leggy consumable recipe 😂

But that's a selfish thought, ofcourse it's great for others

[rotund marten]

Well... Touché
Hahahaha

[shy edge]

Well it’s sort of inevitable since they are in the pipeline already but I suppose if so many recipes are to be added the loot tables could be adjusted so recipes are boosted but the leg mats stay heavily weighted.

[tame swift]

Yeah idk, I guess we'll see

[shy edge]

Have no idea how tall of an order that is but if the current pool is expanded so much it may be necessary.

I still think this is an excellent idea. I look forward to more legendary recipes be it gear or consumables.

[broken cradle]

another suggestion i have for legendary consumables is a consumable where someone gets 1000 of each resource but you can use in age 1. like the weaker version of resources of the empires.

[rotund marten]

Robin Hood core. I like it >:3

[native mango]

Thats pretty significant. Even if it were +300 that would be game changing for an age1 start vs 5k only in age3.

[broken cradle]

in the original, a person could use the resources of the empires in age 1, unfortunately they changed to require age 3. this can help in cases where someone needs help with an early start.

[native mango]

Yes but 1k is practically handing you victory

I dont think I can understate the insanity of powerspikes.

300 extra resources is rhat much more defensive tower and walling and the extra food takes the stress off your vill production especially for civs that build age 2 with a structure as they lose no momentum at all.

1k is over the top

[broken cradle]

that is not true because just having the resources are not good enough if you don't spend them wisely and still beat the quest. a person can use the resources of the empires once and still fail a quest obviously.

[native mango]

At least ep is a more precious resource than that in the production buildings or dismantler

[broken cradle]

it was unfortunate they decided to make you wait until age 3 to use it though.

maybe the consumable can be 300 of each resource then instead of 1k.

[native mango]

If we start making excuses for skill issues and hand people easy ways to get the resources then it will breed complacency especially if non legendary versions are cheap enough to make

Even if the common version is only 100 resources thats far bigger a spike than a few cows because it’s instant and tiger hides and basic wood are next to free

[rotund marten]

Lmao, this is a videogame mate. No one is "making excuses for skill issues" it's a freaking game! Consumables are a part of the game, and they exist precisely to make it easier on those who wish to use them.

You wouldn't go tell a nurse to give you a broken crutch when you break a leg so as not to develop complacency. Lmao

[broken cradle]

agreed

for some people the use of consumables can mean the difference of being able to play the game or not play the game.

[tame swift]

I think a mini empire consumable is fine as long the cost is balanced

So an age 1 500 res for example is good already, then make the cost also somewhat considerable so ppl dont just craft it easily

[broken cradle]

i agree with making the cost considerable so people can't just craft a bunch of them. so a person who wants it can have more use of coin to help them complete the more difficult legendary quests or even be more help for coop quests. the good news is there are already some very good easy legendary quests anybody can complete easily without any consumables like thebes, come together, sais (not 100 percent), oasis (avoid the time challenge).

[native mango]

See this is what Im getting at. Thing is even 150 res from the common version would make a lot of quests immensely easier

[shy edge]

This is egregious to me... It was the full 5000 of each res in A1?

I think there is a lot of design room for legendary consumables, including a mini Resources of the Empire. The most powerful A1 consumable currently is Labor? But you have to put those units to work and their payoff is delayed. Even at 500 of each I’m suspicious that it could have a Strength of the Empire level effect on certain quests so I’d want to test it to see if it could be broken.

[tame swift]

I don't think there'll be anything as broken as empire consums in these leggy consums anyways

But age1 res definitely has to be either very pricey or low enough to not significantly influence it

[shy edge]

Right, I was positing whether a 500 res A1 would be on par with Labor which spawns 12 (?) villagers in A1.

[tame swift]

Yeah that might very well be the case

I have no idea myself cus I dont even use consums

[rotund marten]

I doubt it would be comparable to labour because it doesn't compensate for the time invested in training the vills. It's different in age III, where you can immediately put those resources to work by using them to produce from your 2-3 TCs, 2-4 markets, armories, and, maybe, 6-10 prod buildings. In age 1, even if you get 1K more, you still have to produce from 1/2 buildings at most

Best use scenario would push the player to go up to age 2 and build 1 TC, saving you about 2/3 minutes of gameplay. Now you get faced with a situation in which high skill players saved 2/3 minutes, but they are high skill players. This could mean they are using the consumables for fun, not for necessity.
Ooor you have players who would waste some portion of those 2/3 minutes over time through inefficiencies, so you'd be leveling the playing field

This is a game. We are talking about giving players the option to make their time in quests easier and enjoy themselves more if softer challenges are their preference

It's not an academy, where people should strive to become the best they can or give up altogether

What's wrong with giving players the oportunity to make the game easier? And what's moooreeee, they'd be paying with effort expended elsewhere anyway by doing what's necessary to get legendary materials to produce those consumables.

[shy edge]

These are good points Andrés. I’m sure everything will be strength tested to ensure consumables remain fun boosts to the game.

[broken cradle]

i just wished consumables worked offline.

[shy edge]

Here is a reference of all the hero units I could find in the scenario editor should we consider reusing any existing unique models in the game. I started to catalog each units’ stats but then I realized some of the default stats seem to be before they get tweaked for gameplay (very low defaults) and they would all be drastically changed anyway (eg Brennos is 1250 hp in Lodi quests and 5000 hp in IoR).

I can see these coming as single units, duos, or little possies of three or more. I am not sure how I feel about this hero unit proposal yet to be honest; I want to capture that feeling of having a powerful ally on your side but I don’t want to take away the specialness of quests that give you a starting Hero. However, the existence of Undying Allies seems to put that concern to rest for now.

** Denotes current Legendary Consumable

1. Snappie the Crocodile – SE boss (right is the model for EPC Rampaging Crocodiles)
2. Undying Allies * - HE bosses
3. Mummy * - HE NPC
4. Black Tiger – HE NPC
5. Sessrúmnir – Well of Urd boss
6. The Ice King – WE boss
7. Horatius, Cincinnatus, and Camillius – Rome QGs
8. Agnar, High Priest of Loder, and Heimdal – Well of Urd bosses
9. Achilles – Greek QC
   9a. a tiny headhunter I found and had to share ❤️
10. Brennos & Comontorios – Lodi QGs
11. Acichorios (Celt QG) & Caedmon (Urd QG) – these are the same models/stats as Comontorios ^
12. The Abominable Snowman * – WE NPC (right is WE QG)
13. Woolly Mammoth Champion * – WE NPC
14. Archimedes, Hannibal, and Imhotep – Alliance Heroes
15. Bandar – Pataliputra Hero
16. Tivala – Pataliputra Hero
17. Chief Vemundr & War Leader Beorix – Northern Hold Heroes

Models I could not find:

• Champions from Lodi (pictured)
• The War Dogs from Well of Urd
• King Tusk or similarly enlarged units.

One stat that stuck out to me was Imhotep’s AOE healing ability. This is a very powerful mechanic that could make any hero unit feel like having your own Norse Chief for whatever comp you choose to play.

[tame swift]

14 would certainly be interesting, wasn't Archimedes able to build Guard Towers?

Or am I tripping

[shy edge]

His stats don't have a construction speed line but maybe it was a special action?

but that's what I'm talking about, what a unique ability to really make them stand out.

[shy edge]

Here are the stats for Tivala in Jagannatha's Fury and Brennos in Invasion of Rome

As you can see, part of the challenge if LC Heroes were to be implemented is designing them to be appropriately balanced for any environment since they would not be intended for only one specific quest.

[broken cradle]

the war dogs from well of urd was simply the dogs that had scalings to look larger and unit overrides to change the stats. even that can easily be done obviously.

i knew about that one because i did the quest file for that quest pack.

[shy edge]

I wasn’t sure that it was easy or obvious. I don’t want to create unnecessary work for the devs when existing models are already deployable.