#[Official] Loot and Experience Changes

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

thorny roost
#

just take it right out of the lootcap

chilly tulip
#

I had already reconciled myself that this is going to happen to me

slate bluff
#

They should definitely change the Sybil loot from a guaranteed treasure to a guaranteed enhancive treasure. I am sure someone would abuse it but the rare-ness of gathering these components and then risking it to kill Sybil should be rewarded

boreal bobcat
#

How does the skin thing actually work? I got 2 valravn plumes skinned at the same time. Both magnificent but one is worth 1400 and one is worth 800...

strong lake
#

Skin value is determined by a lot of factors with a sprinkle of RNG

icy sentinel
bright pasture
#

they seemed to be the same even two weeks after loot cap for me

unique oyster
#

From what I understand, you can reduce the value of a skin if you injure the part of the critter it comes from. If a critter gives horns, head damage can reduce the quality.

bright pasture
#

right - so you want to compare only magnificent quality skins

boreal bobcat
#

Yeah I thought same quality should be same value but not the case these days if it ever was!

bright pasture
#

oh never has been, iirc. it's always been some base +- some gaussian distribution, from the feel of it

unique oyster
#

By the way, the gem bounty still has that bugged text.

>sell em
You ask Kahlyr if she would like to buy an uncut emerald.
The jeweler Kahlyr takes the uncut emerald, gives it a careful examination and hands you 3,850 silver for it.

[You need to sell 3 more to complete your task.]
There is no merchant here that can buy that.
royal epoch
#

I'll take a peek at that tonight.

rotund siren
#

Also is the frostling supposed to A) not accept loot system baked goods and B) take weapons (specifically and in particular my spirit bow) when offered said loot dropped cookies (even when the verbiage used is give cookie to frostling)?

royal epoch
#

I'm curious how this is realistically possible, FWIW. I guess if he saved up things from last month to sell this month, that makes total sense.

bright pasture
# royal epoch I'll take a peek at that tonight.

would you be the right person to look at uncut emerald drop rates in Sanctum and bounty gem frequency? the bounty gem frequency seems to be the same, but the uncut emerald drop rate in Sanctum has absolutely plummeted. like, one or two uncut emeralds per 5-6/hour day of hunting

royal epoch
#

The frostling is supposed to take mostly junk clothing.

rotund siren
#

That..uh. Not sure
ETA: I'm logged in with it in hand. Sheressa

royal epoch
rotund siren
#

It shouldn't be taking something that's in my left hand. Or something that I'm specifically not specifying.

royal epoch
#

Accurate. I'll take a look at them in a little bit.

royal epoch
dusky kernel
# 
You ask the gemcutter if he would like to buy a copper-chased azurite chunk.
The gemcutter takes the azurite chunk, gives it a careful examination and hands you 138 silver for it.

[You need to sell 1 more to complete your task.]
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.``` confirmed
royal epoch
#

Sweet.

royal epoch
granite tartan
rotund siren
gloomy lark
#

believe his goal was specifically to see if he could hit the cap in a day also

boreal bobcat
#

Now do it without mug!

brazen salmon
bright pasture
#

aka these were normal silver/hour rates in pre loot cap high-level areas 🥹

visual oar
#

is fash'lo'nae's thingy account-wide?

shell phoenix
#

I don't think any of the simucoin stuff is

royal epoch
vital badge
warm agate
#

Found my first food item on a creature in weeks. You tap a frosted ginger cookie

warm agate
boreal trench
#

@strong lake ```Ah, welcome to the ultimate Masterclass in LootCapping, where we turn Elanthia's treasure trails into capped perfection—soft, hard, or otherwise. I'm your host, but let's introduce the legend himself: Jaired Delone, the resilient half-elf drifter who's stared down apocalyptic fires, reformed his fractured memories, and emerged fearless in the world of GemStone IV Prime.

Instructor Bio: Jaired Delone

  • Background: A Tehir half-elf with a carefree, calm disposition (Fearless primary trait, Impartial secondary), Jaired awoke under a familiar sky after a cataclysmic end—scattered stardust, an awful light, and no more cursed visions of flame. His first familiar face? Cat, his ethereal feline spirit bestie (and eternal sidekick for blanket ambushes). Loved one: Riend. Flaw: Meddlesome. Weakness: Reckless. But resilient? Always. As he muses: “I have always hoped that my final death will be like being carried to bed as a child, where I fall asleep to the laughter coming from the next room.”
  • Expertise: No mere drifter—Jaired's a LootCapping virtuoso in GemStone IV's cutthroat economy. He dances around the Loot Cap (soft cap at 10M silvers, ramping to hard cap at 15M monthly per account), maximizing drops from hunts while dodging diminished returns for the top 5% earners. Techniques include "The Silent Swipe" (prime hunting yields), "Distraction Purr" (via Cat's ethereal vibes to divert foes), and "Cap Evasion Nap" (exempt activities like pay quests and gem purifying to skirt limits).
  • Philosophy: "Why chase when you can cap? Loot isn't found; it's strategically relocated—soft cap be damned." With Cat batting shadows and Jaired meddling in Elanthia's treasures, he turns caps into conquests.

What You'll Learn in This Masterclass

  1. Loot Identification & Cap Mechanics: Spot high-value targets (gems, silvers) and master the Loot Cap—soft impact from 10M, full throttle-down at 15M. Exempts: pay events, locksmith tips, purifies.
  2. Capping Strategies: Beginner "Paw Pat" hunts to advanced "Ninja Nap" (group fixes, Legendary Feeder eligibility). Evade "No!" from the system with multi-char swaps.
  3. Inventory Management: Hoard under the couch (or vault)—track account-wide caps to avoid hard-locking your silvers.
  4. Real-World Applications: Max inventories in GSIV hunts, snag raid bosses, or apply to life: cap your Amazon cart before Prime Day hits limits.

Jaired's paws-on sessions (with Cat demos from the blanket throne) await. Enroll now—meow's the time to cap like a half-elf legend!```

chilly tulip
#

My halfling monk has been completely fine encumbrance-wise because I blasted him with 12 months of 30-day potions at the holiday sale. Today I took my gnome sorc into SoS and it was pure lols. Picked up one box, encumbrance bar shoots to halfway. Picked up a second and I'm at Extreme. In an area with an entrance/exit mechanic (periapts), running back to drop off loot is not really trivial. Small races are in fact pointless now. Hate to see it. My sorc is better off hunting HW because it's broke than SoS where there's actually loot. And he runs 509 100% of the time as one of his outside spells.

edit: Update! Now, while holding silvers to pay the pool fee, my gnome can't handle the load of removing a box from his disk. Great stuff all around. Could the pool fee maybe auto-deduct from your bank like Gemstones silvers do?

granite tartan
old cedar
frozen tusk
#

Song of Tonis is a heck of a drug on a rogue. I guess Auchand forgot that Jaired solo'ed pretty much every iteration of the wyrm including the current one.

strong lake
#

I've taken the wyrm down solo without using 1035 (and subpar gear) it just takes longer.

Regarding loot cap I have been pretty transparent about how I did it and why, but February 1st was not how I normally engage with this game. It was more like a stress test that I kinda took as a challenge.

...and I'll do it again! March 1st lands on a Sunday (echo: Sunday!) so I will be back at it to see what results I can find without using Mug.

To reiterate, because I am seeing a lot of things being said and I truly don't expect folks to read back.

I used only 2 Loot Boosts the entire day. I found my Gemstone on my second hunt and wanted to see unaffected data going forward.

I only grinded like 10 hours (does this make it worse?). I only hunted HW, and it was kind of wherever since I was still doing bounties.

I hunted until full capacity with a disk (I don't normally use them). JD is a half-elf so carrying capacity is whatever that is. I have 20% weight reduction on my primary loot containers.

Then I would return and, this might actually be the biggest factor... I would open my own boxes for free and without having to wait.

202 Trading Ranks. 35 Influence Bonus. Selling on FWI (no citizenship, not sure that matters).

I do not script to hunt. I do script to sell. My wrists did get very sore.

My take for the day was almost 11m.

Loot didn't seem to drop off until 12m... but it has dropped. Off. Fast.

Thank you for attending my TED Talk.

sleek meadow
#

This just confirms I am bad at GS

umbral lotus
strong lake
#

I should add that while I was grinding, I did not rest. It was unload, sell, go back out.

umbral lotus
sleek meadow
#

At any point was a sock involved? Wait. Don’t answer that.

strong lake
warm agate
#

It makes sense to me Jaired even with out trying too hard I’m close already and I know others already are capped and what it’s the fifth of February. And what I mean by that is I’m just hunting as Brigit normally does pretty much.

sleek meadow
#

The secret to avoiding the loot cap seems to be to play 15 alts one at a time so you never focus long enough to accomplish much. At least that’s my secret.

strong lake
#

Don't fall for the psy-op the MAers are going to plot to get solo rogues nerfed and blamed for the economy.

umbral lotus
#

I play one character and have never loot capped, but I have never cared to either, I have more than enough loot as it is

#

Finding loot is fun. If you find great stuff, but meh, to much work otherwise. I don't script hunt or trash/loot sell. I am all about the tedium apparently. Hell, for years I didn't bother taking most gems from kills

vital badge
chilly berry
#

Any word on whether or not T3 Compartmentalized Quivers are going to get an adjustment so they aren't just a super expensive regular quiver next week when I'm loot capped? Thaumaturge tombs?

The silence on some of these issues is truly compelling. My first marriage had better communication than this.

marble haven
#

Item adjustments can be tricky to get answers about at times because the responsible GM might not be staying up to date in the posting/thread where the questions are being asked. I'll see if I can get someone to update, Lucullan.

chilly berry
#

Thank you very much @marble haven

dusky kernel
granite tartan
sleek meadow
#

This whole discussion makes me wonder if I did somehow hit loot cap sometime and never noticed because I wasn’t paying attention and was too busy drinking. Now I may have to sober up and watch. 🤔

granite tartan
strong lake
#

Once valravn plumes start going for hundred of silvers I know I'm cooked.

sleek meadow
dusky kernel
#

Use undansormr scales as your guide -- things like trunks and manes seem especially prone to getting smashed up

sleek meadow
chilly berry
#

Duffield: I use most difficult thing in game to gauge if I make money.

Everyone else: Want to buy a clear zircon?

Edit: Oh... did I mention he does it with a quarter staff...?

dusky kernel
#

okay only sometimes with a quarterstaff, it's been on loan lately

dusky kernel
granite tartan
dusky kernel
#

Ah the whole bit of "does a thing that appraises for 2 million at the pawn, does that count as 2 million vs the lootcap or just 25/35k", and the answer is 25k/35k

cold zephyr
#

found this box today:
waterlogged silver trunk
I didn't know silver could become waterlogged....the world of Elanthia constantly surprises me.

wheat ginkgo
#

Just noting here that the Compartmentalized Quiver gem values and the gem values for the gem-unlock on the Animalistic Totems have been evaluated and they are staying as-is for now.

The skin values for the totems were updated, though, to go for pre-loot-cap valuation.

rotund siren
#

...Yeah I can see those not being used anymore.

chilly berry
boreal bobcat
#

Can’t even sell em second hand now! Talk about a waste of 200k bloodscrip unlock.

slate bluff
#

I assume the goto strat is to wait until you are lootcapped then skin a bunch and save for your totems.
For the gems, you will just have to actively save them in the first couple weeks

chilly tulip
#

Yeah I don't plan to enable skinning again until I'm loot capped and I don't even own any of those items.

boreal bobcat
#

Their base values have been slashed so even if you save them, without a bard you’re just paying more for less.

slate bluff
#

Is there a cap on totem charges? Looks like 500, I think if you skin for a whole week post lootcap you will have more than enough. Hopefully they fix the bundle skin bug though.

strong lake
#

Yes.

slate bluff
#

This might actually help totems because you can hoard postcap skins with no regard for lost silvers

boreal bobcat
#

Crazy totems get a huge buff, quivers get a nerf! Think that’s enough for me not to participate in DR

chilly berry
slate bluff
#

Or you could be clever and sell your postcap skins to other players for a 50% discount on estimated pre-cap value!
Selling a bundle of warg skins, assessed at 57 silvers but estimated 47k pre-cap..... selling them for an easy 20k silvers!

dusky kernel
chilly berry
#

Skins don't work on a compartmentalized quiver.

If they offered a skin unlock that would be great. Until they do, I remain skeptical.

I was giving away my skins for people's totems last month.

slate bluff
#

Has anyone figured out how much of a depreciation gems actually got? Like are they 20%, 40% lower in value?

wheat ginkgo
#

Sorry guys; not my call on the quiver/gem thing. Hopefuly the skins in the totems are still working oaky with the update, though.

chilly berry
boreal bobcat
#

😡

kindred ruin
#

Gems still seem completely out of wack. This diamond was fully purified and still gave me 19 charges. At 500/20 that's 25 uncut diamonds to charge it completely. I do NOT pull in 25 diamonds a hunt, especially now. I'm lucky if I pull in 2 or 3. Hopefully they'll consider them again sometime soon.

You sense that the wyrm idol is likely depleted of power.

It is a small item, under a pound.
It is estimated to be worth about 10,000 silvers.
It is magic resistant.

You lower an uncut diamond close to a diamond-set wyrm idol.  White-flurried wintry blue motes scurry out to engulf the diamond.  When the light fades, the uncut diamond appears incorporated into some of the decorations on the idol.

Pieces of a glittering kresh foreclaw dangle from the wyrm idol in some semblance of a decoration, while fragments of a white opal, an uncut diamond, and a cylindrical red beryl are interspersed over the surface in a spiral pattern.
You sense there are 19 charges of power left in the wyrm idol.```
slate bluff
#

How many charges did you expect? 100?

fast cipher
#

Gems were always twice as expensive as skins weren't they?

kindred ruin
# fast cipher Gems were always twice as expensive as skins weren't they?

Gems used to feel like the cheaper choice, but it could be because the skins I was getting in Hinterwild/Atoll didn't seem to give many charges at the time. So unless you hunt the hive, skins really didn't make sense. Diamonds used to give about 45-50 if I remember right, so 10 diamonds to fill the idol felt about right.

It's not a big deal, it just means the idol is more for movement ambients than for actual use now. One 5 minute hunt drained it of 64 charges.. ouch! At 4 diamonds per hunt I'm looking at it costing 40k per hunt to keep it charged(100k per 10 diamond jar). I still think the totems great for RP though! And I might do the odd charge of it when i buy some skins from peoples shops. Keep stocking skins people!

slate bluff
#

I would just use skins from now on, seems like pre-cap skins > gems and post-cap skins are 100x more cost efficent than both gems and pre-cap skins

chilly berry
#

Is it normal for a group of young hunters to make less when hunting together than they do when hunting separately?

(when taken as a total. So hunter A + hunter B earnings < hunter A solo earnings)

normal drum
shrewd mountain
#

Assuming that they stop the hunt when their minds are full, the same number of kills = same amount of loot, split between them, so...

wheat ginkgo
#

Thati s on my docket to look into tonight. Maybe I forgot to adjust something in the bundle part.

#

I've been sloooowly catching up on things on my plate since the end of last month. I've been some varying amount of sick for most of December and January.

shrewd mountain
fast cipher
kindred ruin
# fast cipher When I looked at it skins were roughly 1k in value for 10 charges and gems were ...

When I hunt with a group, yeah, I'll yoink a few skins just to try and keep it from hitting 0, but the cost of 60+ charges used per 5 minutes means it hits 0 pretty fast. Gems really don't make sense for the idols anymore. so you all need to keep stocking your shops with Hive skins for the rare times we do use it for anything beyond ambients!

Anyway! Back to making stuff with my shadow box as that is now my life!

remote egret
#

I like how one or two players are like, "I could see how you could make 10m easily in a day" and everyone else is like, "wtf...hax! MA army, loot boosts". Kind of sums up how there is such a divide between the people who know how to make the monies and those that...don't.

tender condor
#

I think it's more telling this chat considers "having basically the best gear in the game and grind non-stop for 10 hours" as "easy"

fast cipher
remote egret
#

I didn't take it as the majority of this chat...even regular loot farmers seemed impressed! (edit: Tijay - I guarantee you if I devoted 10 hours I could not hit LC...wanna know how I know? Cause I spend more than 10 hours a month in game and don't hit 10m in loot!)

fast cipher
#

Playing 10 hours and hunting non stop for 10 straight hours are 2 different things. But yes not having an insanely fast TTK will stretch it out a bit but it still comes down to time. It's not like he was hunting in some top secret area he picked one of the poorer ascension grounds.

chilly tulip
#

Honestly Jaired could probably put up a huge number with a drake dagger and 4x robes and no SKs. Time plus experience will still do it

brazen salmon
#

Ask him about his modwir daggers.

sleek meadow
#

ooooh wooden daggers....I want I want

strong lake
#

You just make them at the WL weapon shop. You need to eblade them to hit most things..... or hit them with a +1 I suppose.

vital badge
boreal bobcat
#

I thought the point of going with wood was the negative modifier! Just buy the +magic from DR!

strong lake
sleek meadow
old cedar
blazing violet
minor falcon
#

the main thing that's been kind of frustrating with these changes is the "this item won't fit in your container" seems to be a constant. 🤣 for me atleast...

boreal bobcat
#

-6 accounts! Let's go! Hope keeping the quivers useless was worth it!

old cedar
chilly tulip
boreal bobcat
#

Done

chilly tulip
# boreal bobcat Done

In all seriousness: in the event that this is a cooling off break, stay healthy and see you when you're back! And I mean, stay healthy even if it's a permaquit too. lol

minor falcon
#

I have a fully unlocked compartment quiver... but I feel like I have never actually used the feature because I hate using gems just for a +5 AS increase against a specific target. It was already kind of a pain to maintain so I can see if it's even harder, I'd less likely use it still.

old cedar
#

I have one that's fully unlocked, but I don't use "gem eater things" and it was unlocked prior to that being a feature, which came along when fletching/archery got torn up. I have another that I refuse to pay 200k with the feature that I don't want because it was added to the one I do, though.

dusky kernel
minor falcon
#

no offense to the quiver, it's really cool. but that +5 AS is kinda meh for what the up keep was. I don't see the big deal at adjusting though or making that feature a bit more useful to want to use it.

boreal bobcat
#

I mean the quivers are a master class in screwing customers really. Oh we changed archery and made your quivers just fluff now. So we're gonna tack on this additional ability that requires you to constantly pay more if you want to use it. Oh now we're also going to lower lootcap and not adjust charge costs so it costs you even more of your available income to use it.

normal drum
#

And then even more!

chilly tulip
#

My decision to never own an item you have to fuel with consumables remains undefeated

slate bluff
#

(sadly glances over at my dusty essence belt, cobwebbed pylon, moldly totem, and surprisingly well maintained thaumatage tome)
I think maybe the ideal player model should be X/day uses for these items and then revert to backup charges once X/day used up

crimson pond
#

Need ASC zones to drop essences, that one is painful

slate bluff
#

essences are a pain, I have never had an essence drop in HW so how am I supposed to maintain those items?

vital badge
#

that's the neat part, you don't!

they should drop uber essences in those areas though...

even if you made them trash tier for selling to the alchemist, and just fuel for the pylons, it would be more useful

slate bluff
#

I kind of want to ask them to add a merchant that sells them but I am scared they would charge like 10,000 per essence for unlimited

boreal bobcat
#

They're sold at DR you have your price there!

rotund siren
#

...Uh. My favorite place to hunt is still the Confluence. Not as much now since the gen rates in Prime suck, but. I'd be willing to save essence if people need.

crimson pond
#

I used to make runs at the FWI alchemist for my essence belt, but stopped bothering 😢

slate bluff
crimson pond
#

I probably should do confluence runs, but it's not particularly squad friendly

slate bluff
#

But yeah, make the pylon 20x day plus backup charges, essence belt 10x per day plus backup charges, totem 20x per day plus backup charges etc....

normal drum
rotund siren
#

Or at least you should be able to charge your thing for fragments! I can see not selling the essence directly. But charges, yes

fervent hatch
#

Hey gang, I think there might be a misunderstanding, we'll peek at the issue.

slate bluff
#

I think you can buy a essence from the alchemist table for like 700 silvers...... but at DR they want 10,000 silvers...... IT AINT RIGHT

crimson pond
slate bluff
#

Imagine if wizards, the "masters of elements" had an alchemy skill to create essences of elements 🤯 (100 mana per essence with some cauldron RT please)

crimson pond
#

Running a loot boost might've been a mistake 😆

image.png
tender condor
#

Lookint at the 0%s like I DIDN"T GET A HARUMPH OUTTA THAT GUY

sleek meadow
#

Just to verify…gemstones can equally drop from any critter in an ascension zone right? There isn’t any split between loot types except for skins? Or are they weighted somehow?

dusky kernel
#

from anything

remote egret
cold zephyr
#

Low level gems feel like you're picking up sand and hoping someone will pay you something for it.

Hunting teen level area and I picked up every gem dropped, 37 in all. I was paid 1,128 silver for all of them. Low level hunting for treasure is brutal as hell if you're not finding boxes that give decent silver amounts (from silver and gold ingots).

old cedar
#

Yeah, I feel like the gem nerf was more of a pulverization

cold zephyr
#

I made more coins from selling the 4 solid moonstone cubes and 3 heavy quartz orbs I got from critter drops over 37 gems......how does that make sense? Only problem is they weigh so dang much I'm running back to town to sell them after picking a few up.

old cedar
#

I forget what I sold (from my level 50ish guy) that was like 8 silvers.... Gems really should have an absolute minimum of 100 silvers and then scale up from there.

cold zephyr
#

low level hunting grounds you're probably just better to ignore the gems, take the lockpicks, wands, heavy orbs, moonstone cubes and clothing that drop to make silvers for selling stuff.

From all the small amounts of silver dropped and other non-gem stuff I sold that critters dropped I made 11,058 silver. With the gems it was a total of 12,186 silver from the hunt. The gems just aren't worth the hassle.

#

Now I understand why they are practically giving away the Lumnis donation boost to experience for low level characters....they don't want them to quit if they feel like they get nothing from creatures for treasure.

boreal bobcat
#

Gem Values
I adjusted this to use non purified for the averages to give a better idea of values at generation.

fading flare
crimson pond
#

I still prefer the new paradigm 🤷‍♂️

umbral lotus
#

Had a hunt this weekend I got 7 of those damned orbs

rough vault
#

This provides an opportunity to roleplay disgruntled surly old men.

fading flare
warm agate
#

More dwarves , just what we need.

umbral lotus
rough vault
#

I noticed no nerf of the alchemist sale values...go n crystals!

fading flare
#

Yeah, n’ayanad crystals are still like 3k

#

There is no good RP argument for the box weight. It was too high at 20-30lbs per box and now it’s worse. We’re not hauling around carriages or 5ft-tall boxes. Treasure does not need to weigh 40-200lbs as a standard all the time.

A box of gems could be like 2” across. Tiny.

I’m primarily annoyed at how much it slows down my looting and emptying and selling.

I had 90 boxes in the pool and it took me like an hour and a half to empty them all. It’s a waste of playing time.

timber kraken
#

I have no problem with lower level characters making less silver than higher level characters. This is how every other game works.

old cedar
#

Nobody's saying that them making less than high level is a problem. It's not a competition. We're saying gem values are too low in general, but especially so at lower levels. They could easily double the value of low level gems and still be far under what higher levels are making

crimson pond
#

Relative to what benchmark? Where is the expecation coming from/measured against?

timber kraken
#

That’s reasonable. I think a level 20 player should make less than a level 100, but it doesn’t need to be 20% of the level 100’s haul.

Keep in mind though - many of the capped players are hyper-equipped and hyper-efficient, and are killing perhaps 5-10x as many critters per hunt as the level 20 newer player. So some of the stories where a player says “oh I went hunting and only earned 3k silvers” are overblown, IMO.

At the same time, hunting all day long, getting 100 gems, and selling them for 4,357 silver total feels bad. There’s probably a middle ground.

old cedar
# crimson pond Relative to what benchmark? Where is the expecation coming from/measured against...

I mean, the above measures are good ones, though there are many. 1k in 35 gems is pretty ridiculously low at all. Especially compared to what you get elsewhere. Of course, past values influence as well. Just look at the drop in value from emeralds and diamonds. I'm not going to try to quantify specific values, but there's minimum values where you question why it even bothers to exist, too.

I can sell a cloak for 1-2k silvers....but gemstones for 8 silvers. Heavy orbs are what, 705 silvers or so and are about as common as any gem gets.

boreal bobcat
#

⁨Purified: some purple mithril-bloom | 9 casts | 90 -> 100 (+10)⁩

crimson pond
# old cedar I mean, the above measures are good ones, though there are many. 1k in 35 gems ...

Right, but measuring against the historic values doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The whole goal of these changes was to slow down (both in speed and total capacity of) wealth generation and create a "new normal". So I don't know how we can evaluate whether or not something is expected without explicit expectations to measure against. Not sure who would set those, but "it feels bad" doesn't really seem all that useful either.

It was a genuine question FWIW, not intended as an argument. Just trying to better understand where everyone is coming from, thanks for the reply

strong lake
#

Checking in. 12.5m in and I just had my first "no silver, no gems" hunt. Only brought home skins that sold for approx 100 silver a pop

bright pasture
boreal bobcat
#

Ok this is one I find pretty funny actually. That's loresong value, not appraised.
⁨⁨⁨⁨Purified: saffron-hued danburite stone | 8 casts | 100 -> 100 (+0)⁩⁩⁩⁩

old cedar
# crimson pond Right, but measuring against the historic values doesn't make a lot of sense to ...

Right, which is why I phrased the way I did. Historic values influence the perception, but not necessarily where things need to be. As I was saying above, not saying they need to go back to what they were, but that the nerf came down more like a complete destruction than a nerf.

The value needs to be worth the effort. A box with 5k of silver and 5 gemstones worth 10 silvers isn't really worth the effort at all. Like the goal was "let's do a 20% reduction in loot output" (just making up numbers here) and the effect was more like let's leave 20% of loot production, knocking out 80%.

The whole tier-rework is a whatever to me, I understand the why on that and it makes sense, but the actual overall value reductions, especially at the lower-ends, was quite extreme and seems fairly poorly thought out as far as knock-on effects.

crimson pond
#

I'd reference the Hive and confluence as a good representation of how gems in particular are viewed as disproportionately good loot that needs throttles. Other loot forms balance with encumbrance and such.

rotund siren
#

The hive puts most of their gems in rocks. That weigh 3 lbs each.

old cedar
# crimson pond I'd reference the Hive and confluence as a good representation of how gems in pa...

That's fair, but also we need to keep in mind that those areas are basically designed such that gems are the primary (nearly only? I haven't hunted the hive and only a very very little bit of the confluence) form of treasure from there.

If the encumbrance/value equation is off, gems could also have their weight adjusted some instead of just nuking their value completely. Or things like RW's weight reduction stuff could be looked at more....

crimson pond
rotund siren
#

Confluence gen rate is very slow in prime. I get less than half of what I used to make in plat on a hunt, and that was even before the lootcap was reduced. The throttling there is in mob numbers, not loot itself.

crimson pond
#

Also the daily confluence loot cap

old cedar
#

Overall I get the changes and the need for them, I just thing gems were particularly poorly thought out and the overall nerf was too heavy.

dusky kernel
slate bluff
sleek meadow
#

I just turned in 50 steed skulls from ME and got 1...yes 1 whole bounty credit...I can't help but feel like something isn't working

crimson pond
#

Bounty credit is only based on quality, not value. You might be hitting too many heads.

sleek meadow
#

never aim at heads...and have been hunting ME for months never seen a skin bounty go that dry though...never

old cedar
#

appraise your skins (yourself, not with the furrier) and see their quality before you sell, or as you skin if you can. Would be a way to tell.

radiant phoenix
boreal bobcat
#

The 25 trading will pay for itself though.

tender condor
#

its_free_lootcap_estate.gif

broken vector
#

Any update on this regarding chrism values being readjusted to match the gem value nerfs? ty in advance

unique oyster
# chilly tulip My halfling monk has been completely fine encumbrance-wise because I blasted him...

This was my experience in SoS as a forest gnome. I can handle a few boxes before I have to run off to empty my pockets. It really does suck that you need to use every kind of encumbrance reduction and still suffer. I thought a lot about it but fixrace seems to be the right answer for me. If I am going to use the simushop to fix this, I might as well go all the way. Most of my big purchases in the last few years were to deal with encumbrance. Coin bag, astral vault cube, more locker space. I've been fighting the encumbrance monster for a long time and this update was just the final push I needed to switch.

Now the only question is what race I should switch to. Dwarf, Half-elf, and Human all seem like decent races for a rogue.

rain reef
#

just before this past weekend, I got like 4 or 5 bright chrism gems for the first time since the changes, back to all ordinary/dull only now ever since then. That's out of a few hundred ascension-level gems + 2.5x cap bard purifying them all

fading flare
broken vector
#

sure but the gem values are still nerfed so I would expect a relative change to chrism value requirements to go along with it

civic niche
rain reef
#

Seems like before, vibrant chrisms were the super-rare special special thing but those are basically out of the question now, and brights are rare now too

chilly berry
cold zephyr
# dusky kernel there's no benefit to leaving gems on the ground, from a loot cap point of view

Sorry, sarcasm doesn't translate well in text. I'm not saying don't pick up the gems, but I am saying it feels pretty worthless picking them up at low levels due to the atrocious value they have. Most low level characters aren't proficient at skinning, either, so you're not making much silver there.

The last 50 gems I picked up from pre-20 level hunting grounds:
Least valued = 7 silver (star diopside)
Highest valued = 60 silver (red jasper)
Total value = 1553 silver
Average 31 silver per gem.

Level 25-35 hunting grounds:
Least valued = 8 (clear zircon)
Highest valued = 625 (green abalone shell)
Total value = 9582 silver
Average 192 silver per gem

I haven't done much hunting over level 45 yet (aside from shan that are close to that level, they're pretty poor due to hunting pressure, you fair about as well as the level 25-35 range) , but I was out with level 75-80 critters for a couple of hunts and here's the info from there:
Least valued = 9 (rock crystal)
Highest valued = 4840 (uncut emerald)
Total value = 18440
Average (out of 14 gems) = 1317 silver per gem

cold zephyr
fading flare
#

Troublesome Things:

  1. Box weight. Too much heavy cheap stuff in them--quartz orbs, etc. Ingots should be 5% of silver weight instead of 50%.
    --Changing quartz orbs to be more infrequent but to have more charges might work. They're clogging up everything currently, both in boxes and regular looting. I had 3 of them in a single box yesterday.
    --Ingots: besides just being heavy in boxes, they are making selling a pain and a half. 4-8 fill up a 200lb knapsack and then I have to stop and sell before I go back to loot more boxes from the pool again.
  2. Low-tier gem values (affects low-level characters needing to buy deeds, general treasure, etc). Low-tier gems should be closer to mid-tier in value.
  3. Probably other things.
  4. Elven Nations gems don't seem to have a Tier 8. Sylvarraend rubies, despanals, blazestones, etc, are all Tier 7 or lower. I'd think despanals at least should be 8.
civic niche
#

All of this.

fading flare
#

Other stuff:
5) A LOOTCAP verb. (Just add a roleplay-style line about how much treasure you’ve gathered recently as a line under the Silver/Wealth verb. "You must have looted a dragon's horde recently!") Or have the bank teller say it when you check your balance. It would be funny.
6) Potentially making Lumnis Donate have more gradual prices at lower levels: 21-99. Maybe something like 25k more per 10 levels.
7) Something more interesting to do to keep people playing after the loot cap. Whether that is gemstones, dust, or something else. It's bad form to just limit gaming. It's a motivation issue.
--A small experience boost to replace it was mentioned above as an idea.

dusky kernel
#

I think some variety/chance and more items of the ingot variety might be nice, maybe throw in a (gold ingot value / 10) chance of a gold ingot being a platinum ingot which weighs half of gold, etc

rotund siren
#

...tbh I was kind of surprised the tradebars that are already in the system weren't just upped in value/frequency. Since they already come in a wide variety

tender scarab
#

Would love to see a buff for Magic Markers (the items that lighten quartz orbs, among other things) to 0 RT down from 2 RT. Then I’d pick up (non-box-found) heavy quartz orbs again—well, at least the first 20 per day.

frosty sail
#

i'd be okay if gem values were tripled and their quantity cut in third.

sleek meadow
#

I feel this way about most loot. But most especially gems

frosty sail
#

~ 210 gems to go! 💀bard

timber kraken
#

One simple QoL suggestion would be to make ingots considered a "gem" when you sell your container at the gemshop to get rid of all of the gems. Just to save a few extra steps of work

mossy forge
fading flare
#

Under Silver/Wealth All, probably, if they're keeping the other one minimalistic

mossy forge
#

Personally, I don't think it needs to sub-menu'd. WEALTH should just display your total wealth with all arguments.

wheat ginkgo
#

Just a note that I did find the issue with the Skin Bundles for the Animalistic Totems, though I am going to hopefully be rolling the fix live tomorrow evening when I will be around to put out any potential further issues. Thanks for everyone's patience.

I'll put it up in the Announcement channel when the fix is live.

umbral lotus
#

Change the ingots to banknotes, ingot weight whether it's in boxes or your containers is a ridiculous issue right now, glad I don't play any smaller races

shell phoenix
#

Why would critters have bank notes?

civic niche
#

I mean. Why would they have 40000 silver coins or a locked box is an equally valid question. Maybe they killed a banker.

shell phoenix
#

Because they're collecting shiny things

civic niche
#

Maybe some like to collect paper to wipe with.

Sometimes qol is more important than why.

thorn rover
#

Serious why is encumbrance even a thing? I have WR containers and id rather they become useless and let everyone get quality of life. Let people enjoy rp small races without a huge burden. Im a giantman and id be happy for them.

chilly tulip
#

As I expected I'm solidly into soft cap less than a week into the month, noticeable loot dropoff, time to turn skinning back on for bounties I guess.

valid orbit
#

It could be a bank note to their bank. So we would have to pay the exchange rate. It follows modern game design principle, people like income taxes and fees and stuff like that.

minor falcon
dusky kernel
minor falcon
#

Bank notes also work with deposit all. Where ingots can’t even sell from a container

crimson pond
#

;foreach n=ingot in inv;sell

umbral lotus
marble haven
#

Collecting parts for the Bride of Golemstein

sleek meadow
# umbral lotus Why would a golem have a 139 pound ingot?

Shouldn’t Golems have some kind of 10lb glowing nuclear gem in the center of their chest powering them up? I don’t see them collecting conventional treasure like they were Gremlins. Unless they are Gremlin golems then maybe.

haughty ocean
#

Why do undead bursting from the ground have fresh baked pastries and cute leggings? 🤷🏻‍♀️

sleek meadow
#

Well what do you think they do to occupy themselves underground. They bake of course

#

Also loot in GS is a nonsensical chaotic mess and has very little coherent explanation. Which is why I think I should
Be able to milk undead things and make undead cheeses.

marble haven
umbral lotus
warm agate
#

I found a cookie three days ago. I posted about it here, hah. It dropped in the sanctum.

haughty ocean
#

I recently found a cookie too. Maybe they have a secret stash 🍪

umbral lotus
#

Several thousand searches and zero of either

crimson pond
#

Definitely found food

sleek meadow
#

I found a couple kilts yesterday

split girder
#

As a casual player, the dearth of boxes makes hunting feel very unrewarding to me. 🙁

#

I get the goal was to reduce huge box volumes generated by folks who play GS a lot, but it also had a considerable negative impact on casual play. I'm still just really frustrated by this.

sleek meadow
split girder
crimson pond
#

It is my understanding that boxfinds are handled by the feeder system now, which is separate from standard treasure boxes. I don't think the rates on those was modified

rough vault
#

The boxfound items were made banal by the availability of similar loot at Duskruin, Sonreeva, and Reim. Finding 1x - 5x gear is not much better than a 25k note at this point. I agree if boxes are rare, they need to be better quality loot, maybe something I'd actually want to keep, and not just more quantity to increase valuation.

warm agate
#

I still like or would like finding the occasional minor altered box find or something unique and or themed with a small script. Used to be you might find those in a regular box.

main field
#

I wonder how the GMs feel when people pawn their rare box found (not legendary)

sleek meadow
devout bobcat
#

Loot management is enough of a hassle and we simply aren't incentivized to stop and examine every item we find. If GMs want us to stop and take a close look at something, I recommend that they mark it.

crimson pond
# 
--- Lich: foreach active.

[On the ground]: 
(...)
Total items: 60```
simple canyon
minor falcon
#

I'll pick up all the boxes. I like boxes.

sleek meadow
crimson pond
#

I'm just trying to make sure my tent doesn't blow away. The HW winds are strong!

minor falcon
crimson pond
#

My rogue is paid well, TYVM! I'm going to regret letting these build up though - been farming for my gemstones this morning (this month is being particularly stingy already!) so he isn't on the hunting roster currently.

main field
umbral lotus
#

I count on herbs to feed my empath tat, having to shop for them is a hassle

mossy forge
dusky kernel
frosty gate
#

While everyone else is busy trying to maximize their gains based on the new loot cap rules, I have been busy on finding the ultimate silver maximizing strategy!

Finally cracking the deed formula! Never again overpay for a deed! Never again fail a deed check and waste all of those precious gems! Start saving silver!

sleek meadow
frosty gate
#

Well, I mean, sure, that too...but deed savings! As the old saying goes: take care of the deeds and the silvers will take care of themselves.

chilly berry
crimson pond
#

People still use ;10deeds / dwarf cut rubies, that alone tells you they don't care about deed cost efficiency

remote egret
#

BOOST GIFT LORMINSTRA everytime.

frosty gate
#

Do Lumnis, Oleani, and Eonak mean nothing to you people?!

tender condor
#

step 1) don't die
step 2) don't not live

the 3 a year of 2x lumnis + 1 lorminstra or whatever doesn't really outpace eonak needs unless i was forging like. so hard.

boreal bobcat
#

I’ve abandoned Eonak! Cost me 7,250 resources the other day!

fading flare
#

Eonak is for S6 and other 200k tiers, or lower ones if you are trying something hard

tender condor
#

Let me trade in some of these gift of the gods burning a hole in my pocket for lumnis donation credit value it at my deed calculation * 10 😄

umbral lotus
crimson pond
#

Where's my BOOST GIFT <somebody?> for MOAR FLARES

verbal vigil
#

I use eonak whenever I decide to make some lockpicks. So like once every 16 months or so.

jolly palm
#

#mechanics message
Would it be possible for a GM to confirm ---- OUTSIDE of the pay events (the first line on this) ---- do the other 3 still hold true?

image.png
slate bluff
#

Money exchange lootcap would be wild haha

jolly palm
tender condor
#

I was like i hope you mean the gems. the others would be pretty obvious. at least the last one lol.

boreal bobcat
#

⁨```
Wyrom · #Reim
3/11/2023, 3:47:24 PM
Loot cap is tracked by looting, but there are other factors involved too with increasing values and such.

Also some clarification on this would be grand although I doubt you're gonna give it!
light ferry
#

increasing values and such
hmm.. 🧐 hhhhhmmmm

boreal bobcat
#

Yeah my crackpot theory is currently purifying now does increase your lootcap hit.

fading flare
#

Seems unlikely if lootcap is set when looting

pastel anvil
#

Anyone know if Fash'lo'nae will go on sale this weekend with DR?

boreal bobcat
#

⁨⁨⁨⁨but there are other factors involved too with increasing values and such⁩⁩⁩⁩
Let's all just gloss over the fact there ARE factors involved with increasing values and continue to say it's set on looting!

rough vault
#

All relative currency valuations will now be pegged to the value of a Duskruin pet rock fully unlocked.

light ferry
rough vault
#

Duskruin loot after cap is unsellable to pawn.

light ferry
#

it does make the most sense to do it that way. best outcome for us anyways.

boreal bobcat
#

It sinks the silver from the crap items and still lets you gamble on them. Win win

rough vault
#

I hope it is still trashable or there will be massive piles of 3x quoits

frosty sail
#

genuinely can't tell if i hit lootcap or if Moonsedge has huge loot pressure versus Sanctum.

chilly tulip
#

The loot in ME is just genuinely bad and has been since the area opened. It's the opposite of the Sanctum, which has always had good loot.

light ferry
#

ME loot is so weird. I dunno if it's loot pressure or something else. and ofc it's hard to kill things without damaging the skin value.

tender condor
#

It was bad when there was like, two of us hunting it for months. It's never made sense.

civic niche
#

I wish someone would save me from the countless heavy orbs. Anyone. Or add a pawnshop to HW at least.

sleek meadow
civic niche
#

Fine. Just....something.

tender condor
#

new loot cap value add:
my premium character takes your pawnable items to FWI for you, and keeps 25%

jolly palm
fading flare
rough vault
#

Or you can suffer and atone for your avarice by wearing the orb holding yokes of shame that have been buried in your lockers for years since you unlocked them and realized they were meh.

fading flare
cold zephyr
#

With the rate the cubes and orbs drop, I'd be all for an item that let's you combine them into one. Running around with an item with 40 charges of orb or cube rubs, I'd be okay with that.

boreal bobcat
#

⁨⁨```
Here's the breakdown of your magic category in loottracker.db3:
Item Name Count Total Sold
heavy quartz orb 122 70,606
crystal amulet 131 64,720
solid moonstone cube 78 45,309
gem-studded hangman statue 1 33,250
deathstone studded mithril orb 1 33,000
small statue 32 31,791
diamond-set Charl figurine 1 15,631
blue crystal 44 14,429
rosewood Ronan miniature 1 12,519
rune-etched gold orb 1 11,614
delicate halfling archer miniature 1 11,179
alexandrite horned goat statuette 1 10,450
wide gold ring 4 10,000
engraved platinum orb 1 9,875
amber praying priest statue 1 9,342
gold-framed clear crystal lens 1 5,426
opalescent sleeping cat statue 1 5,314
black crystal 11 5,140
shiny/dull/plain/twisted gold ring 6 20,000
heavy moonstone cube 8 4,563
white flask 18 3,539
(other statues/figurines) 10 ~27,000
(misc items) 54 ~22,652
Summary:
Total Items: 527
Total Sold Value: 477,005 silvers

#

Man why does discord hate formatting

fading flare
mystic vale
#

question about the tootilege cash shop item

Forgot about slow mode haha:
How's it work if you have already completed lumnis and buy it?

vital badge
mystic vale
boreal bobcat
fading flare
civic niche
fading flare
mystic vale
#

I imagine
Right, you don't know haha! So that's why I said it's a question for staff! Kind of an important one, haha, for people to know, haha, before they spend their money on it and potentially lose part of it!

boreal bobcat
#

haha but it's 3 months, do you expect that weekly 100k will just carry over to the next week, haha, no it's probably lost!

mystic vale
#

Maybe people have a lumnis schedule on deck🤷

boreal bobcat
#

Lucky for me the two I have using a schedule aren't worth a tutelage! But it sounds like a continuation of lumnis. I even regret doing donate on those two this week because I'm not waiting for all that experience to use the schedule.

mystic vale
#

Genuinely weird attitude haha, I'm trying to get answers because someone asked this on ESP, and I'd like to be able to get an authoritative answer both to give them and to document in the wiki. Glad you got your potshot opportunity out of it though!

royal epoch
#

Whatever's going on here, I'm not a fan. Can we be nice to each other?

mystic vale
fading flare
#

It should just do 13 cycles of Lumnis. Starts each week when you activate it by getting exp. Nothing lost if you miss a week.

boreal bobcat
#

Any missed should be tacked onto the last week. Let me get that 1.3m bonus week

slate bluff
#

If you have a 7x brooch you should get cashonolae for free

chilly berry
fading flare
slate bluff
#

Infinitolae, all experience for the week is 5x

chilly berry
fierce lynx
dusky kernel
fading flare
# 
Magic Items [3]: a heavy quartz orb (2), a small statue
Gems [7]: a pink tourmaline, a twisted iron spiral, an uncut ruby, a medium grey pearl, a square of shale rock, an uncut emerald, a Phoen's eye topaz
Clothing [1]: an engraved garnet necklace
Special [1]: a bright gold ingot
Total items: 12
>``````
In the thanot box:
Magic Items [2]: a heavy quartz orb (2)
Gems [5]: a frosted pale violet amethyst, a piece of smoky quartz, a vibrant titian heliodor, a blood red garnet, a lambent gold warg's eye quartz
Clothing [1]: some rugged cotton socks
Special [1]: a bright gold ingot
Misc [1]: a pinch of electrum dust
Total items: 10``````
In the mithril trunk:
Wands [1]: an iron wand
Magic Items [1]: a heavy quartz orb
Gems [4]: a white opal, an impure blood red ruby, a flawless aquamarine gem, an age-darkened ivory crescent
Special [1]: a bright gold ingot
Total items: 7``````
Wands [1]: an oaken wand
Magic Items [3]: a red garnet inset ora brooch, a heavy quartz orb, a dull gold coin
Gems [7]: a red spinel, some blue lapis lazuli, an iridescent labradorite stone, a white-point star diamond, a faceted blood red sandruby, an almandine garnet, a black-cored emerald orb
Special [1]: a bright gold ingot
Total items: 12```
60lbs of orbs in four boxes...
visual oar
#

does the cash'loe'nae thing take effect immediately if you've used up your lumnis this week, or is it like the temple bribe where it only works after your next lumnis?

crimson pond
#

The trigger is the completion of your lumnis

strong lake
#

I redeemed mine without thinking about it because of hype, but now I'm wondering if it would have been better to do right before/during Lumnis to squeek out another useage of it before it expires, but I am too dense to figure out if it actually makes a difference or not.

shell phoenix
#

#duskruin message If you put in an assist and you're nice enough Wyrom may extend yours a few days. But 90 days from now should get you into RW when the next ones are available

civic niche
#

It feels like if it's 90 days long you're going to get X lumnis triggers in that 90 days, regardless of start time but I'm not entirely sure, without like, looking at a calandar an such.

visual oar
#

i imagine at some point you'll do a 6-month lumnis reset too, and presumably someone might be able to time it to get an extra 100k out of it?

civic niche
#

Of course

thorn rover
#

I activated, hope i dont lose out!

south trail
warm agate
lone bough
rough vault
#

So this new grandfather's eye boost would seemingly replace the need for weekly lumnis donation unless one is power hunting more than 15ish hours a week.

remote egret
#

I guess...if you don't love exp.

rough vault
#

Well if you don't donate, you finish lumnis faster...so you start 3x 2x then kicks in 5x. If you donate it's 5x 4x 3x 2x and then 5x....so there must be a time where you benefit as a casual player. Power grinding will finish the extra 5x 100k weekly I guess, but not many play that way anymore.

civic niche
#

I don't think a casual player benefits from both most likely. I'd agree.

frosty gate
#

I knew saving up those free 150 SimuCoins a month would eventually pay off! I have enough for a Grandfather's Token.

rough vault
#

They need you to debug it too.

frosty gate
#

Oh wait, is something wrong with these things? 😮

civic niche
#

Some people aren't getting it to fire off when lumnis ends.

frosty gate
#

Well that's not good.

#

Ayup, happening to me too. Got a whole 35 experience in a pulse when numbed. Pretty sure that's a normal pulse.

Couple things:

  1. Would be nice if they reset these things back to 90 days once they fix the issue.
  2. Would be nice when doing LUMNIS INFO if it would say how much bonus experience you have received in the current week so you know how close you are to maxing it out for the week.
boreal bobcat
#

You used it before Lumnis ended?

civic niche
#

The end of lumnis triggers it. So if you were done with lumnis you won't see it til next week. Wyrom will add days if you assist he said.

frosty gate
#

Oh my bad. I misunderstood that part. My Lumnis already ended for the week.

So is there some sort of trick to maximize the experience from this thing then? Like I should use it right when my lumnis starts? Or is that why it lasts 90 days to account for you already being on Lumnis? I really don't want any sort of gotcha gimmicks with this.

chilly tulip
#

Really feels like it should just immediately start if you turn it on when your Lumnis is expired. Idk why it's been made so convoluted.

civic niche
#

It's 90 days, unless you like, calendar it out, it's hard to know if you're going to lose a week at the end or not.

frosty gate
#

Yeah this seems overly complicated. Why not just:

5x experience
Up to 1,200,000 bonus experience
You are capped at 100,000 a week
Lasts 14 weeks or until 1,200,000 bonus experience received

boreal bobcat
#

Cause they want the extra hours of you logged in!

rough vault
#

Captain Obvious suggests beta testing new things before rolling them out last minute.

vital badge
# chilly tulip Really feels like it should just immediately start if you turn it on when your L...

#development-announcements message

Root for FashTut or Get the Boot
Fash'lo'nae's Tutelage will now activate immediately when the Grandfather's Token is REDEEMed if you've already expended your Gift of Lumnis for the week. Thanks to GM Nyxus for this fix!

Additionally, the Grandfather's Token now has a clearer ANALYZE granting some additional wisdom on how to REDEEM it.

Just a PSA for folks who may not have seen it, copied the message so I can save you a click.

frosty gate
#

Glad they fixed it for future uses, guess I'm kind of screwed this time around since I've already redeemed mine. Oh well.

Just slip 1000 SimuCoins into my pocket and all is well.

royal epoch
frosty gate
#

Do I have to do an in game assist?

civic niche
frosty gate
#

Thank ya. I'll look into that.

warm agate
#

Um how do you know if you were affected or not? Does it show somewhere whether it worked correctly, I used one this morning, just not sure if it was before or after a fix

vital badge
#

you should be getting 5x experience if Cash'lo'nae is functioning properly outside of lumnis

if you aren't, assist and they can take a look

civic niche
civic niche
warm agate
#

Ok, looks like I have a few more to go to get that, I think I'm ok.

royal epoch
#

I just want to point out that, canonically, Fash'lo'nae is way cooler than Lumnis.

vital badge
#

up until now, he wasn't doing much for me, but they both give me tasty exp pulses, so at the moment they are equal in my eyes.

royal epoch
tender condor
#

Add a boost to cash lo nae if you're converted and watch all the mechanics-centric paladins and clerics pain over the lightning flaring deity vs free exp deity.

vital badge
royal epoch
#

Your father sounds more like L'Naere. 🙁

#

"Okay, kids! Good luck with the kiramon!"

vital badge
#

or Fash'no'lably-late.

royal epoch
#

lol.

silver mulch
#

I'm really considering leaving after DR because of the loot changes. I've 2 accounts but 5 characters I play now. The loot cap just sucked all the fun for me out of the game just on the fundamental level of time in and work and getting no reward at all for your effort. Right now as it is for my main account with the other supporting, I can't make enough coin to just meet funding upkeep for stuff. I have been trying to down size and I realize its too much management and stress creating. I come here to get away from stress not have to see what i'd spent decades assembling and creating have to suddenly get rid of it or I have to break into spending cash I can't afford to into it. I'm not going to open multiple accounts, script up and MA like crazy just to make ends meet. But that really seems the direction these changes are pushing the top end to. It's frustrating.

frosty sail
silver mulch
#

i'm trying not to buy into simucoin for stuff

umbral lotus
#

Critter should have used all the loot it had in the box..

#

In the brass strongbox:
Weapons [1]: a sturdy ruic composite bow
Armor [2]: a scratched glaes greathelm, some gleaming mithril arm greaves
Containers [1]: a torn ebony scabbard
Wands [1]: a silver wand
Magic Items [1]: a solid moonstone cube
Gems [5]: a bluish black razern-bloom, a lustrous vermilion firedrop, a cloudy winter peridot, a faceted wyrm's heart sapphire, an inky black nightstone
Clothing [2]: a jade-inlaid ora ring, a step-cut diamond talisman
Special [1]: a bright gold ingot
Misc [2]: a smooth copper nugget, a carved basalt teardrop
Total items: 16

silver mulch
#

just keeping Nord's enhancives, service charge stuff, and jsut doing the math and what i'll have to say up to refresh stuff like bard items, bloodstones, mystic tattos and etc(there just won't be enough once a few starting hitting in the year i'll be in the negative)and i'll say i then maybe have a few mil to spend on a service or two for a character. 4 other char's, 2 capped, one mid 70s' and one 40. I do sell or trade what services i do. I can see the course of it all and honestly i don't want to sell everything extra off slowly just to prolong a situation that is more trouble than its worth. And that's not counting the other costs.

#

I could downsize more to where its not an issue. It's like saying you can't have nice things if you put the work in or keep them.

light ferry
#

I dunno how I feel yet. I averaged around 15-20m the last few months, so 15m hard cap without costs becoming cheaper does suck a bit. There's exp boosts now that let me focus on exp gains ftw. I created a nice enhancives setup and then gave up on it because the upkeep was huge.

MA takes too much time and attention for me to want put into things, so I stopped doing any of that over a year ago. Only way I can effectively do that right now is AFK bigshot, which I won't do.

brazen salmon
#

I'm not pushed as far as Nordred is with the changes to loot, but I am absolutely bleeding silver on my second account. Having to steal from Peter to pay for Paul doesn't feel great when Peter's pay just got cut by 2/3rds.

old cedar
#

services burn charges too fast, in my opinion

civic niche
#

I also find that not getting loot kinda sucks. I initially canceled my 3 accounts, but they walked back a lot of stuff, so I decided to come back and see. But yeah, I've got 3 weeks on 2 of my 3 accounts where I won't see loot now. Not sure how that's supposed to be fun.

light ferry
silver mulch
#

just the fundamental concept of keeping some one playing a game is time and effort get reward. I feel this completely got ignored. I'll say even removing that has killed doing things to make me even interact with people. No point in hunting with no loot. No wounds to bring empaths, no boxes to ask a picker to work. It's literally sit and stare at a wall somewhere

frosty sail
#

i never used enhancives until recently, and even now only for the hardest post cap content; i have like millions of bounty points so i guess i can't grasp how expensive enhancives are compared to someone running them for years.

aside, I hunted moonsedge and HW recently and loot felt poop compared to Sanctum, maybe overhunted idk

brazen salmon
#

If it wasn't for the DR/holiday discount I couldn't keep my enhancives charged.

umbral lotus
#

I can for the moment affrd mine but I mostly avoided high end enhancives for years just because I knew they would becomne cost prohibitive

old cedar
#

I don't like enhancivesbecause of their constant drain and the extra management they require. I make some exceptions (locus, ones I find, at least until they run out).

frosty sail
#

isn't it normal to use an armoire to to store the enhancives when you're not actively hunting? i guess i do more bounties than i use up enhancives. i also stay away from enhancives with stats i don't really need, paying attention to their charge costs

civic niche
#

I just ignore enhancives except for a logic set, which I use the simupotions for.

light ferry
frosty sail
mellow gyro
timber kraken
strong lake
#

This has been brought up. You can run 3 Basic accounts and have triple the silver ceiling of 1 Plat account, which... I get it, they're trying, but that Plat sub doesn't have much going for it

mellow gyro
#

Those are pretty valid. I guess it goes back to customer preference and perceived value. That one is tricky. Platinum is appealing right now for other reasons. The other side was about essentially playing for free or at a perceived ceiling, every dollar counts and income varies, but playing those 3 accounts to effectively play for $0 or some motivator that is kind of being handwaved, which in business industries isn't a loyal or sticky customer in particular. It's just price focus.

devout bobcat
#

I ended up upgrading for the larger exp bucket. Double PPs are also very nice.

vital badge
#

it has it's perks, but Jaired isn't wrong, those have to be weighed by the individual and determined to be worth it to them. It's worth it to me for the perks I get, but I understand that isn't for most folks.

strong lake
#

I am coming from an emotional place when it comes to Platinum and this isn't the venue. Just happy to be here.

mellow gyro
#

We're happy to have the platinum players. I hope it had some perks, but fair enough Jaired.

warm agate
fierce lynx
dusky kernel
bright pasture
# frosty sail isn't it normal to use an armoire to to store the enhancives when you're not act...

same same - i took off non-essential enhancives a couple of years ago. so keep a spell aim + dext set going for hunting, and logic for resting - and it's upkept by bounties pretty easily.

if it's wyrm or invasion time, i toss on the serious set - but that is rare so doesn't require much upkeep

i also sold/replaced anything that was too expensive to recharge - it more or less scales with loresong value so it's easy to estimate in the playershop values. i also only have one premium enhancive for spirit recovery

rough vault
#

They have player game hosts to help with easy customer experience. Why not a player volunteer team to do quality control too?

thorn rover
split timber
gloomy lark
#

crazy idea so should probably be ignored, probably a lot wrong with it, but what if loot cap could be increased over time like Wisdom of the Years, and players that have been playing for 5-10+ years (exact time threshold tbd) earned themselves a larger loot cap then newer players. I do think it me logical that somebody that’s been playing for 5-10+ years should be richer then somebody who started a year ago… that certainly wouldn’t solve everything but I think it would be a step in the right direction (long term loyal players should be rewarded)

royal epoch
#

What I'd really like to get a bead on is what in particular is costing 15m/month, so a breakdown would really help.

silver mulch
#

lets just do what it'd cost in a year recharging bard, monk, paladin, empath items for 4 characters, and covert arts for 2

#

once a year on each on 3, one and a half on the main

#

so fully empty two characters redoing covert arts is say 1.5 per week, so 6m per(12 total). so each one re-upping monk tattoo lets say 1.5m per week as well, 3 characters doing one each is 18m and one character getting it twice is 12m(30 total), Empath items are 3m per week now, fully recharge is 12m per, 4 char's is 48m i won't count the one twice. standard is 3.. another 48m, bard just say 1.2m.. 24.... 48, 48, 30, 24, 12.. 162m. I only counted the main twice in one of those. but that is from zeroed out to

cold zephyr
# silver mulch just keeping Nord's enhancives, service charge stuff, and jsut doing the math an...

I've got 5 (I think, maybe 6) characters with enhancives. The most enhnacive heavy one is my reduxmage. I've just built up a script to .wear when I'm going out hunting and then .remove when I finish. None of my enhancive characters are constantly played, they see 3-6 hours in game a week. Most enhancives don't go through more than 1/4 of their total charges in a year for them. Upkeep is pretty minimal, I'm sure I'd feel different if I played them a lot more often and the enhancives required a lot of upkeep.

I completely avoid any player service that requires charging, even if I can do the service myself. It's an awful idea to make some require recharging and others you don't have to.

I use freebie simucoins and generally purchase the claim event boxes for DR and with the BS I make from there I spend them mostly on WPS invites, I add to a few items I'm currently working on (even with my own warriors) and that's really it for me. I also drop anywhere from 2-5K BS on the ore wagon to rebuild my flaring metal slabs I go through a lot of. Already put about 500 BS (5 BS a pull) into the wagon this year and I've had horse crap for pulls so far....kind of a big letdown at the moment.

I never hit loot cap - with how I play I might make 4-6 mil a month across all my characters. With how the new loot works though, low level areas feel absolutely dreadful with loot. I've already taken in 1.5-2mil just mostly from level 30-45 hunting range. I can see how the new loot cap can make a lot of people feel like they're being punished for playing a game they're paying for and I don't like the direction the loot changes took.....and I'm not even a person that ever came close to loot cap before and I still won't hit it after it's been changed, but I still don't think it's a good change.

silver mulch
#

jsut Nord alone on enhancives.. 39 enhancives worn, uses two weapons that are so when he's actually hunting its 41 items. It is overkill. One self knowledge spell, one martial knowledge item. 100th training sorcerer has 29 items, one being self knowledge. 40th training monk has 17 enhancives. 74th training rogue has 20

#

Just two of pieces. The short sword here is an enhancive splitter, part of the rule on enhancive splitters is both halves have to be charged separately. I use year duration potions on this sword.
Duane peers at the sword through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I can charge this up a bit. It'll cost 70,980 of your bounty points, though."

You have chosen to recharge a fel-hafted rusalkoren short sword. The cost is 70,980 points. Please enter ORDER 5 CONFIRM within 30 seconds to complete your order.

Duane nods to you and says, "Looking for something to spend your reward points on? I'm here to take your ORDER."

Duane peers at the pauldron through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I can charge this up a bit. It'll cost 56,400 of your bounty points, though."

You have chosen to recharge a reinforced black leather pauldron latched with silver buckles. The cost is 56,400 points. Please enter ORDER 5 CONFIRM within 30 seconds to complete your order.

royal epoch
silver mulch
#

i'm assuming once during the year i'll have to fully recharge each. That's just the total of charging each piece of during the year 1 time. Though monk tattoo i'll have to do 3 times every 2 years or so on Nord. Most likely yeah, i won't fully reach that point in a year on all of it but say i'm 70-80 percent of the way there it leaves very little of anything. its just getting enough i might be lucky some months and not lose ground. And i agree i downsize a lot, but its almost like i'm being extorted to spend cash to maintain gear i've earned or either don't use it or sell it. I hate to put it like that

boreal bobcat
#

#1400579142013026496 message
Here's the expected recharge rates from staff.
⁨⁨To break down the proposed decay rate a bit more, a "casual" player who plays a specific character 20 hours a week would need a full recharge once per year. At 40 hours a week (the equivalent of a character having a full-time job), the item would need a full recharge once every 6 months.⁩⁩
Note: I don't think this is implemented, just showing stated expectations.

silver mulch
#

i hadn't seen that yet, i was just going by what currently i knew

boreal bobcat
#

But yeah my charged services have been dead for awhile because of the cost, even before the changes. I shoulda went harder before the changes heh.

royal epoch
#

I think my point is that you're assuming full recharges weekly, when realistically it's once every 52 weeks, at least from your first post. That would definitely change the math!

#

Or let's say even once every 26 weeks if you're playing 40 hours a week.

silver mulch
#

i did say once a year

royal epoch
#

I was going by this, but maybe I misread:

so fully empty two characters redoing covert arts is say 1.5 per week, so 6m per(12 total). so each one re-upping monk tattoo lets say 1.5m per week as well, 3 characters doing one each is 18m and one character getting it twice is 12m(30 total), Empath items are 3m per week now, fully recharge is 12m per, 4 char's is 48m i won't count the one twice. standard is 3.. another 48m, bard just say 1.2m.. 24.... 48, 48, 30, 24, 12.. 162m. I only counted the main twice in one of those. but that is from zeroed out to

#

Let's get to common ground on some definitions, though...

#

If fully recharging bloodstone jewelry is 12m and you need to do that once a year, you'd be looking at 231k a week, not 3m a week.

silver mulch
#

that's per week rate charged for resources from an empath to recharge, if its at 0 energy left in the item. It takes 4 weeks of resource to recharge fully. it's approx 3m per week for a bloodstone

royal epoch
#

What's the going per-charge rate from empaths for recharging BS jewelry?

civic niche
#

I have to recharge my monk tats 3 times a year, bard luck twice a year. I don't use any other rechargables. But just on those 2 things I'm spending like 12m/year. That's for one character.

royal epoch
#

And let's say that you only play to loot cap, you'd be basically making 180m a year, yeah?

silver mulch
#

4 weeks x 3m per week is 12m to recharge 1 for a year. 4 characters, so x 4, 48m

royal epoch
#

I think I'm failing to understand your math.

crimson pond
#

We measure services in weeks, not charges

royal epoch
#

Okay.

civic niche
royal epoch
#

And that's 4 characters on 1 account, or do you have multiple accounts?

royal epoch
silver mulch
#

i added it up to recharge everything fully once a year as 162m over 4 characters on 1 account, that's bloodstone, standard, bard luck item, monk tattoo, and 2 characters being rogues only 2 need to be retaught covert arts. I've 1 character on another account. it's not one i ever come close to making much on. Just my wiz on a prime account i use his familiar to troll people with

crimson pond
#

It's only 2 weeks to fully charge empath service though, not 4.

fast cipher
#

But it was realistic for a lot of people previously, now either prices need to come down or people will stop using them which I don't think was the point of this change or something the game wanted

royal epoch
civic niche
royal epoch
#

I've been playing pretty aggressively this month and I will say I haven't broken 5m yet.

boreal bobcat
#

Loot pressure must reset on the first with loot cap. Because treasure is flowing the first 24 hours or so then it slows down.
This is why I was able to easily break 5m in the first 4 hours, and why Jaired got so far in a day.

civic niche
#

I'm loot capped on both of my people who hunt in pits of the dead. Hard on one, and pretty close on the other. I'm not alone in this, there are lots of people mentioning this.

royal epoch
#

I want to be clear that I'm not saying you're doing something wrong by hitting loot cap that fast.

#

I must just be a slow hunter. 😛

silver mulch
#

i'm sort of rough guessing. I don't know the ins and outs of all of it. I just assume they all work kinda similiar. So far this month with holding back hol dmuch i do a night to 2 hunts, i do about 450-550k a run, that's 15-20 minutes worth

fast cipher
#

Personally I think the issue is bounties which push you to rack up massive kill counts to complete. They push you into the cap pretty fast when your culling 100 things to get 20

civic niche
#

Just the sort of dichotomy of "play more, here's a bunch of exp boosts to encourage more time in game" coupled with "you;ll get no loot for doing so" is stark. Also, "making" people kill thousands of things to get a gemstone to drop, yeah that doesn't help any.

royal epoch
#

Prefacing this by saying this is just a thought, and not something I'd push for: it almost sounds like loot gain should slow down so it stretches better across the month.

That said, that would absolutely hurt casual players, and we don't want that.

rapid reef
#

what if casuals could roll it over month to month?

devout bobcat
#

What if it's something you could opt into?

royal epoch
#

Service pricing will almost certainly go down, though. People want to sell their services, and eventually folks will stop buying if the price isn't right.

#

I don't see people just not offering services when they're capped on resources.

civic niche
royal epoch
#

I can't promise you that heavy quartz orb drop rates will change, but...

rapid reef
# royal epoch In what sense?

people who loot less will have the best loot rates for the entire month. people who hit their cap regularly slow down quickly every month

royal epoch
#

There'll probably be some tweaks when my new "interesting loot" stuff comes out.

potent orchid
devout bobcat
#

I mean something like: opt into a slowed down loot track, thus preventing you from loot capping too early in a month. But it comes with some incentive like a bonus gemstone or something.

silver mulch
#

or just give us something to spend money on. Coin is always going to repeat this problem if there isn't stuff to spend it on to exit circulation.

edgy hollow
#

i probably play more than just casual, i'm sitting somewhere around 700k ish in loot for the month. since the changes it seems even slower. I can't imagine how it would look if you slowed loot down even more to last for the month

crimson pond
royal epoch
fast cipher
#

wait you don't have all your spell ranks?!

royal epoch
#

W-A-R-M-A-G-E.

#

Had to max out that sweet, sweet Dodge first.

fast cipher
#

I've been down that road, glad to be done

silver mulch
#

i was trying to make an argument new lootcap doesn't give me enough room to maintain my 4 char setup on an account. My numbers are off some but say even cutting the estimate in half, its still a full time job maintaining.--- I;'m confusing myself now

royal epoch
#

Some sensible counters, I think, would be to ask:

  • How many player services do you need to maintain in order to be effective in combat
  • Are you doing everything you can to maximize your own silver earnings outside of hunting
#

Absolutely the game should be fun, and if it's not fun for you, that's a decidedly different problem.

crimson pond
#

My gut tells me that trying to fully outfit 4 characters on a single income is stretching the expected limits

royal epoch
#

But... yeah. That, precisely.

boreal bobcat
#

Hmmm so premium lost value

Edit:
Well before it wasn't an issue providing for 4 of the 10 character slots provided. I know I know, prices of services is gonna come down.

royal epoch
#

How do you figure?

#

Premium benefits are still significant.

#

This is like the argument that Lumnis brooches lost value. They definitely didn't. 😛

crimson pond
#

I think the actual biggest hurdle now is the painful time between the decreased cap/cashflow, and the eventual (hopefully!) market stabilization around that new reality

tender scarab
#

This is a good discussion. Specific numbers aside, I broadly agree with the idea that the value proposition of charging-based services has dropped for either the characters who sell the services or the characters who buy them, depending on whether or not the prices change.

mellow gyro
#

I think I buy 105 30 day potions a year during the December sale at 12 per month and some gaps or second purchases.

thorny roost
#

They didn't lose value per se. But they became decidely worse than running multiple accounts. This is the problem.

silver mulch
#

because each additional character is less over all return on the same account. There is still an overarching number that a single char account has the math 1 =1 on. Multiple on the same account that math is no longer true. Yes you've player services, but everyone has that now of a certain training. But even then that's been hit and slowed so more characters means less output on that even

royal epoch
#

Yeah, arguably running multiple accounts has always been the strongest path if you're purely in GS for silver gain.

#

I don't love that.

#

Clearly we need Merchant's Apotheosis, where your loot gain is reduced by the number of characters you have logged in at a given time. 😛

thorny roost
#

Well there it is. We don't wont to hit lootcap because we spread our playtime over three characters on 1 account vs playing multiple accounts. This was far less of an issue when the lootcap was much higher, because most of us didnt even hit that lootcap, but people are hitting the new lootcap MUCH faster.

silver mulch
#

i'm not trying to sit here and worry how much i'm making a month, but forward it suddenly something i have to keep track of

fast cipher
#

We must tar and feather Auchand before he achieves all of his spell ranks, watch out he's dodgy now

royal epoch
#

Sorry, I have a lot of Dodge now.

#

And I'll grease up beforehand.

#

(It's my secret. I'm always greasy.)

tender scarab
devout bobcat
silver mulch
#

i do appreciate you talking through this Auchand. I do admitt i can be wrong and have a fair bit of misconceptions. I dislike things that force major change and where it affects how i set up and even if i play characters i feel it is going in the wrong directions

royal epoch
#

I mostly want to understand the concern, not poke holes in it.

frosty gate
#

Maybe the charges on player services should last twice as long. It probably made sense back in the day when Monks had the only service which required upkeep, but now there's what, 4?

I know players don't need all player services, but I don't think the right way to approach player services is to say you don't need them all.

Or maybe charging up services can provide the person performing the charging with some game generated silver. The monk guild sends silver to your bank account for doing such a good job jabbing people over and over again. Maybe this would incentivize players to not charge for recharging...but people probably will.

fast cipher
#

I'm not nordred but what I took out of it was if he lootcapped every month he'd pull in 180m even if he spent only 100m on services spending over half your annual income just to keep up with where you were isn't really fun or appealing. So the choices are either cut characters, cut services, or keep the status quo. I agree we're kind of in no mans land where prices are still relatively the same while he's making less and eventually will have to equalize a bit but in the meantime it can be frustrating as you watch your accounts drain.

boreal bobcat
#

I know everyone says prices are gonna come down, but the word was also that 95% of accounts make 4m or less a month before the changes. Curious if they are still making 4m or less a month and the assumption prices are going to come down seems to be made on only the 5% were buying services.

tender scarab
#

I don't think prices on profession services necessarily have to come down as much as some believe or hope. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends which side you're on, obviously, but--

--right, what Nisugi said while I was typing that. For a large majority of characters (or so we're told), they're not affected by loot cap. If they're making less silver, that's only due to the gem value changes.

royal epoch
#

There is a part of me that would argue that the inability to maintain too many power-boosting services without paying a substantial opportunity cost is just good game balance.

#

I'm not sure that that's the case here, but I can squint and see it for sure.

fast cipher
#

To be fair no one is arguging for free services, I don't think?

royal epoch
#

I'd compare it with my WoW experience, where I want to be so good at so many things that it became totally untenable, and I just finally found a lot of fun being a mistweaver monk on a great raid team. Once I realized I was turning it into a full-time job, I dropped M+ raiding and arenas and just focused on the thing that was making me happy.

devout bobcat
boreal bobcat
#

I guess when wow starts selling thousand dollar item upgrades it will all make sense 😁

royal epoch
#

There's a whole portion of my GS brain dedicated to the implications of pushing players to play too many hours a week. I'd much rather have people log in for 1-2 hours a day, have an amazing amount of fun, and then see them tomorrow. (Even as I realize that I'm not that sort of person.)

fast cipher
#

Uh oh Tikba got to him

royal epoch
#

Did someone say "daily loot cap"?

#

😛

frosty gate
#

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm one of those people who love to see numbers go up. Like I've said before I don't necessarily think a loot cap is bad, I just think there needs to be some sort of alternative system that players engage in once they hit loot cap.

royal epoch
#

For me, that's experience still.

#

(I kept playing past loot cap last month because I wanted my spell ranks!)

fast cipher
#

The problem with saying just use less power ups if they cost too much is we will and we'll adapt and pick and choose and some classes will definitely be the losers and then we have to listen to warriors yell about how no one wants their grit

royal epoch
#

For someone that has a bajillion points in Ascension, I get not feeling great about it.

#

You could just say, "Make grit better, Dev!"

devout bobcat
#

I have been putting off ascension as much as possible because it just feels like such a slog.

tender scarab
#

I was about to say that I can't even imagine what "an amazing amount of fun" would look like in GS as an everyday experience (as opposed to one-off invasions and story events and the like)...

...but, actually, I can imagine it because it's happened several times. It's just that each of those either got turned off, were bugs, or were canceled before making it off the test server. 😂 (The old insane Sanctum of Scales spawn rates, weapon techniques accidentally being enabled for pures during PSM3 test server time, the night of the wyrms (or generally any test server time where we could basically endlessly spawn wyrms), and the Auchandpocalypse where every room in the game generated the max number of creatures.)

royal epoch
#

I'm happy I caused three of those things.

boreal bobcat
#

You can't even turn the services off like you can enhancives. The ones on gear have to be removed. You have to deal with waiting for stamina, mana, and health to regen after wearing your bloodstone.

The whole system is just too tedious, especially when it costs way more of your net worth. Which is ashame for all the time spent making them.

timber kraken
#

I do think getting some more ways to use experience/ATPs once you’re way post cap would help with the post loot cap doldrums

royal epoch
#

I have to admit that I love my battle standard.

devout bobcat
# 
  Ascension Exp: 0```
I really don't want to. But eventually I'll have to.
royal epoch
#

I use a battle standard and bard luck.

thorny roost
#

Aside from the very real (imho) issue with the new lootcap. There is also this overarching emotional impact it has had. If I suddenly hit an arbitrary wall where the effort I am inputting is no longer getting the same output it feels bad, really bad. It feels like I am being told what I am doing is wrong, that I should be playing differently or less. Whereas I never felt before like I was the one causeing an issue with the ingame economy.

crimson pond
royal epoch
#

I dunno, I feel like BS jewelry would probably help me survive more.

#

But I'm leveling an empath for that.

frosty gate
#

True you can still get experience once you hit loot cap, that’s why I still hunt past loot cap: like I said I like seeing numbers go up.

But I can understand the frustration of people who had two major reasons for hunting; experience and loot, now having half of the hunting experience essentially taken away and nothing replaced it.

main field
#

half the hunting experience but double the experience of hunting

royal epoch
#

I think we came up with something uniquely cool in Gemstones as far as an incentive to keep hunting after loot cap. Maybe more stuff like that.

#

I would like to see more cool and unusual properties, though.

frosty gate
#

Yeah that would be great.

main field
#

I leveled up an empath enough to suffuse a B5 jewelry from all the wounds and scars I have acquired on SG

boreal bobcat
#

But can you suffuse to be able to recharge it!?

dreamy harbor
#

Would be cool to see potentially some more temp item non sellable to pawnshop type loot thrown in (thus not affected by lootcap) like potentially some stuff from boosts, or like crumbly items like a hand pylon or grenades, put a timer on them so they poof after a couple weeks to prevent hoarding, but just kinda some neat non silver loot that could keep dropping through the month

dusky kernel
fading flare
#

What I am interested in is the effect this might have on the general game market and event sales:
Will claim boxes stop being redeemed?
Will the number of people getting services during DR decrease because they can no longer buy bloodscrip for silvers as easily?
Will the total activity on accounts drop due to a slower game market?
—
If silvers increase in value and prices adjust, that might balance, but it’s hard to predict. I think it’s something to watch.
When a macro-level change like this affects loot generation, the follow-on impact to the market can be incredible.

#

Basically, from a game economy perspective, does throttling the loot end up shooting GS in the foot and result in an increased disparity with fewer people getting services?
I could reasonably predict fewer total services and that it would shift to only those who are willing to pay cash for event runs.
There was a large in-game market using silvers to buy runs from other people.
I don’t know if it will happen, but it seems possible. If prices adjust enough and silvers increase in value, it might be fine…or not.
This DR is only the first of several that need to be watched. It should be affected less because people still have silvers from before the change hanging around.
—
And if event sales are affected, was that the intention?
I feel like that would hurt GS’s financial outlook.
Anyway, some thoughts before I go to sleep.

#

If it had only been a loot cap, it might have only affected a small number of people, but it came in with a double whammy of reduced silver generation plus a lower loot cap.

I heard some comment that claim boxes probably wouldn’t change their value, but at the moment, they would need to be around 5.5 mil instead of 7.5, and by the next event it might be even lower.

light ferry
#

Dunno if someone mentioned it, but IMO the argument around not being able to gear/manage services across multiple characters on a single income is pretty much arguing that we shouldn't use multiple characters on the same account, but instead have one account per character and be MAing instead. which ofc a lot of the systems do encourage vs using up multiple slots on a premium/plat account

light ferry
# fading flare What I am interested in is the effect this might have on the general game market...

It will be interesting to hear about those numbers. I'll hit loot cap and with the cost of gemstones I can't afford to buy claim boxes anymore and I expect this round of claim boxes to follow EG's, where the market values the contents less than the cost of the claim. I'll also be letting most of my player service items run out instead of charging them. There's too many things pulling at my resources.

fading flare
light ferry
#

As for the "you can sell your services to make money to buy other services" argument the market was already pretty bad for rogue services. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up dropping to ~750k/week or less

light ferry
fading flare
light ferry
#

The more I think about this the more I feel like I should focus my time on something else besides this game. but it's also late, so I should sleep on that 😂

bright pasture
blazing violet
bright pasture
#

i would never object to even more swarming rooms. old Sanctum swarms often had 40-50 creatures per room

fiery cove
#

Just throwing this out there - what if services just…didn’t need recharging? Many of them already don’t- certainly none of the ones that improve existing gear. (Grit, enchant, sanct, ensorcell)

But the ranger trinket also doesn’t require it. Why isn’t that the model for the rest? It’s not like everyone has a maxed out ranger trinket and the market is completely dead. For some characters, maybe. But that’s no different than maxing out a piece of project gear.

Just genuinely - what gameplay function is the recharge mechanism intended to drive and is it really necessary?

vital badge
#

it was a way to make the profession service:

  1. relevant forever
  2. powerful enough to remain desirable
  3. provide incentive to move silvers around and spark economy

what it ended up doing was create an army of alts whose sole purpose was to grind resource for profit.

umbral lotus
minor falcon
#

the big issue though is that a lot of people get to the point where experience isn't worth as much as the loot they get. Characters get to a point where those silvers could be better used to help them attain upgrades where as experience in ascension doesn't get them that much anymore. I'm at 62.6m into ascension experience and I think I'm at the point where it's a void and kinda stop paying attention to acquiring points.

Gemstones and more loot are kinda the best upgrade paths. Right now both of them are on alternative paths of one wants you to hunt less and the other wants you to decimate a hunting area thousands of times over.

hoary prawn
# split timber The floor needs to go up. The loot cap is easy to get to and 1% is too low. If i...

They could fix the bot problem overnight by introducing meaningful penalties, and I don't mean a couple of hours on the naughty step reading policy. I mean make it not worth running afk hunting scripts. At all.
If I were running things, first offence (or rather, first time caught - it's not the same) would net you the loss of one whole level and every silver, small statue or quartz orb you'd gained during that level. All of them -found, traded for, bought at auction, bought from other players or Simushop for $$$, I don't care. Gone. Second offence, you'd lose three full levels on the same terms. and if anyone was stupid enough to do it a third time, the character would go demonic, old-style, irrecoverable.

vital badge
#

I'm more in-favor of porting them to shattered and let them live out thier bot life in peace there if they want to.

Rather than becoming punitive in any way, this moves both wealth and bots away from the areas they impact most.

hoary prawn
vital badge
#

shattered isn't the CvC hellhole people imagine it to be

minor falcon
#

I think the true problem is players selling silvers for cash. A lot of negative behavior has spawned off of that and probably accounts for most of the silvers generated into the game.

If that was stopped then the people who are buying the silvers will probably resort to selling simucoin shop items for silvers instead which doesn't sound like a bad thing. Ultimately sounds like a good thing for everyone. The people trading their silvers for simucoin items are actually improving their characters and the people purchasing the simucoin items are actually putting money into the longevity of the game rather than someone's pocket that is using the game as a side hustle.

hoary prawn
# minor falcon I think the true problem is players selling silvers for cash. A lot of negative...

That's certainly a big part of it, but from the perspective of characters who aren't multiples of cap and wearing every item of unpronounceable vorpal gear they have room for, it also hurts to have zombie armies running around. They raise spawn rates to levels no solo character can cope with - especially if they have a monk doing that 'provocation' spell they have.
I've encountered more than one that dispels player-cast vines and other crowd -control spells that the solo player may rely on for survival - even though those are now player-friendly and even in areas where no critter casts those spells. I policy report those after getting no response to a remonstrance.

#

I'm borderline on reporting the unresponsive dead, we can all get caught out by an urgent call of nature or a knock at the door and forget to fog out or log out - but if what they're doing is detrimental to my hunt, you bet they get reported.

vital badge
#

it's more an issue that there isn't a system distinction between the two effects, so the auto-dispellers and room movers respond automatically. I have a wand that does all the clouds in one shot, and that causes the same behavior

hoary prawn
#

The system distinguishing would help, but players actually being attentive to the effect of their behaviour on other players is the main point. If I have an animate or Companion that's attacking when another player is in the room, I move, because I'm paying attention. And if they're paying attention, I apologise. Failure to respond at all to the environment is exactly what the policy is supposed to prevent.

thorn rover
#

Whats crazy is all these changes were to remedy a very small subset of players. Didn't need to be this complicated

wispy forum
vital badge
wispy forum
#

Ive said it many times, but since the lootcap topic is being discussed again i'll just toss it out again - remove the loot cap, let people earn what they earn, price mandatory and necessary services for the median, add super expensive aspirational silver chases for the mega high end(not one offs like auctions) and let the players and the market adapt - yea i know im not an economist, i just like to chase goals where the only restriction is my engagement, not arbitrary design rules

chilly tulip
#

Being into 1% loot within a week of the new month feels awful, and yeah, I play a lot, it's just gonna happen. If this is the new normal, I don't like it, but it is what it is.

wispy forum
# royal epoch Did someone say "daily loot cap"?

You jest, but there might be something to this - perhaps something similar to how the WoW rested xp came to be - you get boosted loot drops for an hour every day, then it decreases at some sort of logged in thresholds til the day resets or something

split hamlet
#

No.

valid orbit
#

I know it has been suggested to make the loot cap weekly instead of monthly. This seems like it would align with how life actually plays out with people availability cycles for play time. Were there arguments against this?

#

Make it reset on lumnis and get rid of the 6 month cooldown for lumnis reset. Lumnis reset is not so cool anymore anyway, right?

wispy forum
#

Keep in mind, i dont want a loot cap at all - someone who plays 18 hours a day should find more loot than someone who plays 2 and you should never stop finding loot, you just find a bit more your first few hours of play for the day - whats not clean about that?

tender condor
valid orbit
#

Yeah, short of getting rid of it I mean.

#

Under my spitball idea, you could buy a bunch of lumnis resets from the simustore and forever live on unlimited loot and 5x exp if you buy lumnis donate. I dont know if that's good or bad.

minor falcon
#

You only get the benefits of lumnis on a reset every 6 months though.

Nevermind I see what you said. Reading is hard in the morning 🤣

wispy forum
split hamlet
#

I think we would all benefit from reading less this morning.

valid orbit
#

I dont like daily lootcap because people dont normally have play schedules that repeat along the period of a day. Except for the obvious one of sleep. I mean, i know that sounds stupid, but what I mean is weekends and stuff where ppl have more availability

wispy forum
#

Shrug

valid orbit
# wispy forum Shrug

But I like the general idea! Just weekly vs daily. Don't take it as being unsupportive 😉

wispy forum
#

Nono that shrug wasnt to you - appreciate it

sleek meadow
#

The whole hunt till you hit a cliff thing seems like a very crude club of a solution.

Something like a graduated tax and perhaps even some maintenance taxes on bank accounts of a certain size accounts over X would have still slowed things without feeling so abrupt and impacting so many at the bottom.

Or maybe just have silver gain be like resources or even exp. Once you hit 50k in an hour you have to sit around in town and absorb your earning potential back. So many ways that didn’t involve just stopping after a week.

split girder
#

Can staff please make the new gold ingots sellable via whole-container selling at the gemshop (like gems are)? Thanks.

normal drum
valid orbit
#

I'm coming from a presumption that loot cap isn't going away. With that... here is my latest revision:

  • Make lootcap reset weekly on lumnis, reduce the cap accordingly.
  • Allow lumnis reset to also reset weekly loot cap.
  • Change the lumnis reset cooldown to 1 month to align with Gift of the Gods.

If loot cap is staying, which it is, would this not be better while still achieving the same goals?

calm bay
#

Honestly, a large majority of the problems can be fixed by delivering benefits to players with multiple characters being actively played on a single account. MA players are the meta for generating silvers, farming gemstones, farming profession resources, earning XP since they can play each of their characters at the same time every day for the whole month. There needs to be incentive for the premium and platinum community who are active on multiple characters to gain a lootcap bonus per character they play. Otherwise, the incentive remains to cancel premium and swap to MA.

normal drum
#

Give everyone a loot badge. It has 100 charges per month. It decreases over the month. When it’s at 0, no more loot. You can recharge it, but it costs silvers.

rough vault
#

Use AI to distinguish which groups are multiaccounting units and which are distinct players...set treasure to drop in proportion to number of players instead of characters with smart roleplay checks for conversation now and then.

sleek meadow
rough vault
#

The elegant efficiency of multiaccounting code betrays them. They never cast at the dead critter or flub and cast at self. The beauty is surreal but obviously not human.

warm agate
#

Stop the rush to cap every character in the game. Bring some joy and silver back to hunting lower levels that don't require the pressure to have every enchancive slot maximized or player service used (thus less output of silvers to maintain.) Add more skills players can train in "Goals" or adjust point costs down to current skills so characters have to rely less on enhancives. Use less services/enchancives do you really need to have the highest AS etc, to own the hunting area? Do you really need to rule the realm? Get by with less. KIDDING/NOT KIDDING.

rough vault
#

The other solution is hiding in plain sight...your mind is full. You MUST rest. Impose draconian penalties on looting if fried.

sleek meadow
# warm agate Stop the rush to cap every character in the game. Bring some joy and silver bac...

GS is on its late stage capitalism, Monty Haul, Munchkin phase. I’m not sure balance is possible or that any genie can be put back in the bottle. I’m old DnD campaigns this is where the DM usually killed/ascended/retired everyone off and started a new campaign. But as a biz I know that’s not possible. Maybe GS needs a wow model where they launch GS Classic? Honestly not sure what a good answer is. But know we aren’t there with the current cap approach

chilly tulip
#

I think one of the impetus behind adding all the extra exp avenues recently is specifically so they don't have to bother developing transitional hunting areas and can continue to focus on ascension

warm agate
#

Open plat back up 🙂

sleek meadow
#

So is it time to raise the max level to 200 and just build out and up into the stratosphere?

warm agate
#

Don't we already have an anything goes scripting paradise, in Shattered? Boot the troupe hunting MA's over there ::joking::

calm bay
#

They aren't trying to eliminate accounts and revenue streams, just reduce the impact they have on the economy. MA players are fine and even if they gave a silver bonus to each premium/platinum character played on the account, MA would still have a large advantage it would just sting a lot less to the single account user.

A treasure boon for every character on a premium/platinum account that lets them earn extra income as long as they're not just power hunting one specific character per month. The net result being that multi-character, single account players could earn an additional 25-50% depending on account tier. This wouldn't change anything for the average player who doesn't ever hit loot cap, but it will help with the sting for those who play super actively and cycle through their characters to earn profession resources or farm gemstones the "hard" way. It is also much harder to exploit than spinning up a bunch of basic subscribed accounts.

sleek meadow
#

Just double the loot cap for premium and another 25% for plat accounts then anyone who wants to really go for it has to pay out the nose?

royal epoch
split hamlet
#

People want to find treasure. They care less what the treasure sells for. So to go from treasure, treasure, treasure, nothing. It feels bad. If we had just kept finding treasure like we always had, and that treasure just sold for less and less, people would feel better about the whole thing.

royal epoch
#

I have to stick with the parameters I'm given.

normal drum
#

Any movement on making the treasure more interesting?

unique oyster
#

Small aside, one of the reasons I don't want to get new weapons/armor is because I would have to get all the player services on them again. Not only does it take a long time, but the cost is huge. Even at 2m/week, it would cost me months of silvers to get my gear back to what my old gear had.

civic niche
#

It is a weird system where, if loot is part of your goal , the better choice is multiple prime accounts as opposed to a single premium account.

Just as a customer , it feels like the game doesn’t want me to sub at higher tiers.

normal drum
#

Also, I feel like the hard part right now, is that all the silver drains feel nickel and dimey following the loot changes. Specific examples: taking a ferry to sailor's grief; box fees; player service recharges; deeds; herbs for the herb kits --- the upkeep to to overcome frustrating mechanical obstacles is significant, and even more significant post loot changes. (this isn't a lootcap complaint, this is a treasure is not good anymore complaint). I think the pendulum towards loot reduction swung too far and hurts casual players at this point.

umbral lotus
royal epoch
normal drum
#

I'm excited to see what you all cooked up.

civic niche
#

I guess, at the end of the day, I don't recall an other game, ever (though I'm not exactly an encyclopedia of them, but I've played a lot) where the economic solution was to cut players off from loot, instead of providing something to spend the loot on. Not getting loot feels terrible.

fast cipher
#

Speaking only for myself I think for me I was expecting the fall off from 10-15m to feel like the fall off from 16-35 or really more specifically 30-35m where it could take you weeks to move through it and instead it took a couple of days of not even trying but just having a lot of time to play.

split hamlet
chilly tulip
#

Yeah I was anticipating things being set up to throttle the decrease far more gradually. I did not expect to be hard capped a week in lol. I didn't change anything about how I play. Actually that's a lie. I disabled skinning entirely and still hit loot cap in a week. If I had skinned it would have been even faster.

civic niche
devout bobcat
royal epoch
#

I dunno if it'll excite you guys the way it does me, so I have been hesitant to share. 😛

devout bobcat
#

Is updating treasure clothing to inspect correctly in consideration?

royal epoch
#

But I really wanted to make clothing/jewelry/etc finds more interesting.

civic niche
#

If by more exciting you mean new descriptions and nouns, meh. If by more exciting you mean enhancives, or things that have a purpose besides being pawned, interesting.

dusky kernel
royal epoch
normal drum
#

I really hope it's leaning into something mechanical and usable. It sounds like based on the emoji's that some folks will like more fluff stuff.

royal epoch
#

I do want more fluff stuff though.

#

What if I told you that you could project the designs onto your existing items?

devout bobcat
#

I want to find a snakeskin dress while hunting and turn it into a pair of boots. Or take the snakeskin dress and alter it with the spider box. etc etc.

civic niche
#

It'll be an improvement over 200 pounds of orbs either way.

royal epoch
#

Keep in mind that I'm still tweaking some of the descriptions so that they won't generate weird phrasing...

normal drum
#

I’m excited for the people that find this exciting. No shade. But probably not for me.

devout bobcat
#

I get that this is not everyone's cup of tea, but I find this extremely exciting - especially if the INSPECT on those works correctly by identifying the material.

royal epoch
#

I wouldn't say that efforts will stop there, but this one was important to me.

#

Materials and such will also be assigned appropriately.

civic niche
royal epoch
#

To me, it solves a couple of things. I hate bland clothing and jewelry drops. I also sometimes see a design where I go, "Huh, that's way cooler than my shirt."

#

But I don't want to give up my enhancive {whatever}.

#

And I'm not exactly hunting for alterers.

normal drum
devout bobcat
#

I am always on the hunt for interesting materials and designs that I can work with. This update will 100% cause me to pause and take a close look at my loot.

dusky kernel
civic niche
#

Yeah, if you're saying what I have can take on the properties of something else in terms of appearance, that system itself is sort of cool.

royal epoch
#

I'm always open to finding ways to make loot more exciting for other players, but I really think we need the backbone of a better crafting system first.

#

Consumables aren't used in GS because they're cumbersome with our two hands system.

radiant phoenix
normal drum
# dusky kernel You're saying you can't afford herbs and deeds? It doesn't help when the argume...

I’m not saying I can’t afford it. I’m saying tedious silver drains hit harder with the reduced treasure. I’ll just acquire silvers with skittles if that’s what it takes. I don’t think you understand how little I have made silver wise. Haven’t ever hit loot cap before or soft loot cap even. I used to be running about equal silver in silver out. Now I’m running a deficit. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

royal epoch
#

Or the barrier to entry to getting them (alchemy) is incredibly high.

royal epoch
#

Would you agree?

civic niche
#

You can forge shields and armor?

radiant phoenix
night talon
dire rivet
#

Could lumnis info be updated to show how much bonus exp is left on Fash'lo'nae's Tutelage?

brazen salmon
#

Is there room here to maybe chat about how some clothes drops are sellable and some aren't and it'd be suuuuper grand if the ones that currently aren't... could be, even if it's for less.

devout bobcat
#

Or if those could just stop spawning. It's the clothing without a material type that seems to not be sellable.

brazen salmon
#

Also not opposed to this idea

unique oyster
#

I dislike finding stuff like an unsellable, 3 lb sheath in my boxes. At least I can sell the quartz orbs!

civic niche
#

I guess, the one upside to loot capping is, I don't care about there not being a pawnshop in HW for the next 3 weeks. <sings> Always look on the bright side of death...

mellow gyro
#

The kids call us "Sweats"

dusky kernel
civic niche
dusky kernel
#

are you decaying a lot then that you dont have gigas fragments? I love a good salty jab at mechanics as much as the next half-guy, but the silly jabs (like you cant get to icemule literally whenever you want) detract from the good ones

civic niche
#

I mean, I know how to get someplace to sell stuff, it's just annoying that there's no pawnshop there. So I used it to make a sarcastic comment to the loot cap issue. I wasn't expecting the spanish inquisition.

dusky kernel
mellow gyro
#

Have we told you about our Grit pennance this week?

fiery cove
light ferry
mellow gyro
#

They are good in invasions, but you know that bandit bottle throw dispel all is coming

devout bobcat
brazen salmon
#

Welcome to HW, where you have just enough to do bounties but everything else is just one premium teleport away.

old cedar
umbral lotus
sleek meadow
#

however having lightning resists can help if you get bolted by the gods when you hit cap...if they still do that. 😄

old cedar
#

they'd run out of bolts now

sleek meadow
mellow gyro
#

Has anyone ever talked about the benefits of grit?

umbral lotus
fast cipher
#

Idalias grit fiending is a bug not a feature

brazen salmon
#

I'll see your grit and raise you covert arts. Which is actually beneficial and people still sleep on it.

bright pasture
mellow gyro
old cedar
umbral lotus
#

I remember drag a dead Earthdiver plenty of times way back in time

mellow gyro
#

GSS he'd die. I guess we all need earth lore jutsu.

bright pasture
#

i remember stance dancing

boreal bobcat
#

I thought the idea was staff thinks players are suppose to be punished for buying things and using them. Isn't that why they said it was a mistake for ALL services not to have charges?

civic niche
boreal bobcat
#

Sounds like a failure in both design and execution.

old cedar
#

But does it? Does nobody need enchanting, ensorcelling, sanctifying, ranger trinkets.....?

civic niche
boreal bobcat
#

I mean he has a point in that CA is on the character, and the others are on the item, you have more items, you're one character.

I can assure you that having to recharge something all the time and being worried about charges and the cost of charges just makes me not want to participate in the system, hence my charged services are dead or low tier.

So seems like the opposite effect in my case anyways.

sleek meadow
old cedar
#

I see ranger stuff sell all the time though. Though the lack of binding like the standards/bloodstone/etc should probably be re-done in all honesty.

bright pasture
civic niche
cold zephyr
# royal epoch When people are hitting loot cap in the first few days of a month, I'm not sure ...

Hitting loot cap isn't really that hard now if you have the time to do it.

Within the first 4 days of this month I had already hit 1.25mil in silvers with a couple of characters I have been bouncing between. This was over the course of 4-5 hours a day and playing a couple of level 35-45 characters. I also reverted to opening my own boxes so I'm not throwing away roughly 15% of my silvers to the pool or roughly 30% of them to the NPC locksmith.

For me, someone that's a bit more than a casual player, if I wanted to I could hit the new loot cap easily by half way through the month. It would take a bit of grinding, but I could easily do it. It doesn't sound fun, plus without anything exciting to spend silvers on it's kind moot for me to worry about it.

All the alt currencies in the game now and the simucoin store, most of the places to spend silvers in the game have been removed for real life currency. I used to save up silvers and was ecstatic getting 10-20 mil in my account and hitting up an event and blowing through most of my silvers. Now these events don't happen anymore and the 10-20 mil I make a year just mostly sits in my bank. Between all my characters I'm now sitting on 225mil and pretty much nothing to spend the silvers on.

This is why I think the loot cap is a bad game design and this is coming from someone that has never hit it or come close in the past. I'm probably one of the few that doesn't care if Bob has billions of silvers from farming and gobbles up multiple items at a silver auction or if Becky has billions of silvers from selling player services and she also buys up multiple items at a silver auction. The problem I have is the extreme lack of places to spend silvers in the game anymore and I see that as being the problem, not the fact that people can generate millions of silvers....it's the fact there are no good places to spend them anymore.

civic niche
#

I do not have any standards, or covert arts because I'm not buying into more recharging mechanics. I only have a single luck item across all my charaters, and I have a monk to recharge all but one of my tattos (because being tied to character, you can't charge one on the same account.)

mellow gyro
#

Charging all the time and cost of charges? I have everything. I never think about recharging. I guess its somebodies Roman Empire.

old cedar
#

If you never think about recharging....is all your stuff at zero? 😄

vital badge
#

"this standard sucks! It never procs!"

dusky kernel
# old cedar If you never think about recharging....is all your stuff at zero? 😄 
  a pair of orase studs capped with mithril-caged sunstones (0/20 charges)
  a silvery blue starfish pile earring (0/17 charges)
  a ruby-clasped gempouch of tightly stitched spidersilk (0/10 charges)
  a pearl and pink topaz pin (0/17 charges)
  a flame-cut aquamarine medallion (0/21 charges)
  an oval bloodstone cuff (9/100 charges) (hidden)
  an etched vultite greathelm (3/23 charges)
  a pear-cut golden topaz torc (0/18 charges) (tucked)
  a knotted earring of fine iridescent glassthread vines (0/18 charges) (tucked)
  a bluish glass bubble caged in mithril-crafted kelp (0/10 charges) (tucked)
  a spherical gilded locus with glowing red-orange gaps (charged until 2/11/2026 17:58:38 CST)
  a jagged crimson eahnor hairpin with an ombre fade into darker tones (0/18 charges) (tucked)
  a pair of translucent scarab studs (0/16 charges) (tucked)
  a polished mithril aventail (0/27 charges) (tucked)
  an elegant pink sapphire torc (0/16 charges) (tucked)
  a hammered mithril barrette dusted with flecks of diamond and deathstone (0/10 charges) (tucked)
  a mithril Juggernaut tattoo (20/100 charges)
  a bronze-tipped ora pin (0/16 charges) (tucked)
  a rolaren-bound kiramon chitin badge (0/50 charges) (tucked)
  an oak-traced vultite pectoral (0/15 charges)
  a polished peridot bracelet (0/18 charges)
  an elegant sterling silver armband (0/13 charges)
  a spiraled vultite ring set with a hazy sapphire eye (0/16 charges)
  an elegant sterling silver ring (0/12 charges)
  some scratched ora leg greaves (0/28 charges)
  some vultite-linked footflowers (0/16 charges)``` I live and die by 4 hour energy

also just noticed my bloodstone is 9/100 already oooof
slate edge
#

they need a new simucoin enhancive item that just makes ALL worn enhancives "charged" so you don't have to deal with the management recharging or potion pouring on individual enhancives.

old cedar
#

But that'd make a lot less money for them, so...

dusky kernel
#

they do it's called permanent charging, only 50 million lol 😭

civic niche
bright pasture
#

i just automate enhancive recharging in my sell script. it charges stuff at 2-3 charges so it never risks anything

i'm guessing the Lich repository doesn't have something like this?

boreal bobcat
#

Yeah I wont be releasing a script that spends your bounty points or pours your potions 😁 Other than the 4 hour potions maybe.

dusky kernel
#

Nisugi's script poured my drake dagger to 10x

cold zephyr
#

I'd like to see the recharging for silvers be an unlocked service all year round instead of the week or so we get every year right around the New Year. I'd be much more open to spending silvers to recharge enhancives over trying to scrape together enough bounty points to try and charge them. I don't have anything else in game to really put silvers towards.

crimson pond
cold zephyr
#

probably doesn't help that the trash cans are kind of inconspicuous. In solhaven it's an urn (or case) and in the landing it's a case (or urn) - I forget which has which without looking.

sleek meadow
boreal bobcat
#

The best part about trash is you don't even need to know it's there just use TRASH <item>! It being the trashcan

mellow gyro
unkempt ravine
devout bobcat
unique oyster
rough vault
#

You see a saltstained burlap sackcloth dress matted with bristled ogre backhair that she is wearing from fancy loot.

unkempt ravine
bright pasture
devout bobcat
unkempt ravine
#

FINE, woman! lololol

calm bay
# royal epoch I'm always open to finding ways to make loot more exciting for other players, bu...

Would really love the idea of useful crafted items that we can find beyond loot cap which can be sold and traded with players, but otherwise has no monetary value (i.e. the alchemist doesn't buy it). As you mentioned, need more work on crafting and allow for using consumables (and scrolls/magic items IMO) from within containers so they don't have to be held. Also, maybe we could increase the chance of finding random boosts including higher level boosts while searching.
Is Lock and Key influenced by loot cap?
https://gswiki.play.net/Lock_and_Key

dusky kernel
#

I believe they had said not affected by loot cap.. also it would be pretty messed up if they tripled lock and key drop rates just to have it nullified by hitting cap

tender scarab
#

Will LOOT ROOM and LOOT [BOX] be updated to pick up new wave clothes?

civic niche
dusky kernel
#

Messed up yes, but not out of the realm of possibility lol

when "all cs spells" is a range of things that can stop working on a whim (sorry Ethereal), nothing is out of bounds really

primal creek
# royal epoch Consumables aren't used in GS because they're cumbersome with our two hands syst...

They also aren't used because it takes a lot of work to currate and sell something like a wand to another player unless you try and add value to it. I would be curious to see what bad there could be if a player sells a wand/thing to the pawnshop that item, as just a high level idea, is then available for purchase more efficiently back from the pawnshop like a store. So game pays 500 for a wand, sells it for 750. Or something like that. So the things the game is producing are getting used vs turned just into silver. I used wand as an example.

fading flare
#

I mean, that is what trading does with loot and also what purify does for gems. But that’s why things like ranger rods aren’t worth any silvers to pawn.

primal creek
fiery cove
old cedar
rough vault
#

Another vector for special loot would be to create a new hot trendy thing and instead of putting it out for sale, keep it treasure system only. The Kenstrom wings for example, or girl on fire dresses, or forehead gems, or whatever. Work with players to brainstorm a set of new items that would sell for 25 to 75k bloodscript if new. A note that fixes the weight of any cloak or backpack to 1 lb. A note that grants 100 to suffused energy. A new line of material that glows only at night and leaves a trail of moondust...whatever.

dusky kernel
fiery cove
split timber
#

So much of the good stuff is driven by event currency, and comparatively few by resources you can acquire from the treasure system.

Yes you can buy some event currency from other players that bought it from the simucoin store, but without a direct offering that's also shuffling owners and not removing the silver from the game.

Are the event boxes going to reflect the increased value of less silver available? The balance supporting the company but also getting the good stuff directly with silvers could use some tweaking.

#

Let's just say, if DR exclusively used silvers the value would go up dramatically because you can't just buy billions from the simucoin store. There wouldn't be much of a need for a loot cap, at least not as low as it is.

But that's no good either because we want the company to make some money and keep the lights on. But what's stopping the pendulum from swinging a bit too far here?

tender scarab
#

Just out of sheer morbid curiosity and for science, I actually hope they go through with [the plan](#1461872047062908929 message) of leaving CLAIM boxes at 7.5m while changing the orb from 2-rub blue to 2-rub indigo. My expectation is that that plan would drain billions less silver than past DRs, but the possibility that I'm wrong would also be utterly incredible to watch play out if it did.

light ferry
#

2-rub indigo would be interesting.. but since it sounds like gemstone prices may not be adjusted for months, if at all I'm still saving up for that last slot

valid orbit
#

Can i use my lumnis reschedule to push the date out further so that I can stay on Fash'lo'nae Tutelage longer?

chilly tulip
#

Absolutely can’t see many people buying CLAIM now at the old price

sleek meadow
#

or with the old things...now if they gave me an orb that gave me 200k resources?

warm agate
#

I didn't even buy the one offered for the loot /experience changes. ::Shrug:: Who knows what people will do

boreal bobcat
#

Will people pay 1.5m for a 2 rub indigo!?

strong lake
#

Yes

frosty gate
#

With the loot cap changes, maybe shattering a gemstone should give dust and silver. That way capped characters can get some silver beyond the loot cap and 90% of gemstones isn’t just dust.

mossy forge
#

It would be nice if the lootcap was character bound and not account. Otherwise it feels like we are incentivizing multiple accounts, vs alts/premium/plat accounts.

At least this way people have to make an active choice to play a main over an alt if they are choosing to farm.

light ferry
#

The extra field exp is nice, but I'm planning on downgrading to basic after I get a premium enhancement done

dusky kernel
frosty gate
#

Well yeah. I’m fine with the changes as is, just thinking of ways to possibly give people more options for loot once they hit the cap without going back to the old loot cap.

north lance
#

So the Drakes do a group hunt every night. Usually Svardin will be the one to loot, sell, and split the coin. How does the lot cap work here? Its it all on him? Does it affect the whole group? How is it determine who gets what towards the cap as the split is pretty low.

minor falcon
sinful coyote
#

but they're bandits so we're really just talking dozens of silvers...

minor falcon
#

yeah, bandits shouldn't be bad at all. If you were doing REIM or something like that then it would be a different story.

north lance
#

oh its not just bandits

light ferry
#

doing bandits should subtract from the loot cap 😂

digital turtle
fading flare
#

restoring silver to the masses.

timber kraken
#

Escort bounties between WL and the Elven Nations should reverse the loot cap

rotund siren
#

...escort bounties between WL and EN used to be awesome before they got seriously nerfed.

warm agate
#

Unfortunate consequence of putting in blanket solutions. Maybe they need to put in a register office where officials of the CHE and/or group can register their hunts so the loot can fall under the group/house/organization cap. Or give the pesky town clerks something to do 🙂 Limit it to 1 per week per group/organization.

warm agate
#

Heck they could put flag in like we have for DR. Player X elects to receive gems only/silvers only/boxes only/all loot types. Flag off Trail trash. I'm on a roll now I will stop.

rough summit
#

Not sure if this has been discussed already, has simu ever considered tackling the silver issue on the other end of the spectrum? How about a progressive silver cost to train skills and not have a loot cap. They could make ascension training increase at a rate that forces older/higher level players to burn through their hoards. Im recently returned to the game, but i have always wondered about the end game value of silvers (besides selling for USD). Even with the introduction of player services which seem expensive to a low level player I assume its a drop in the bucket for high level players. Now that merchants/events have their own currency as do the auctions I fail to see the reason behind the sale of items for hundred of millions. What possible use is 500m of silvers in the bank except to sell them? I am not saying silvers are worthless, people selling vouchers/BS for silvers but its just a proxy for USD. i would assume that the players selling simucon items for silvers are not at cap or even close to cap. There is no functional system in place to remove silver/capital from the game. More silver is created, it exchanges from player to player with an infinite ceiling. I might be way off here since i have never even come close to the end game whenever I have played

sleek meadow
#

How about a regional loot cap. Max that and you can still earn. Somewhere else. Would get some folks moving around a bit.

civic niche
sleek meadow
#

Yeah loot cap and loot pressure have not worked as intended

civic niche
# rough summit Not sure if this has been discussed already, has simu ever considered tackling t...

I think most of us have said, at some point in all of the loot discussions, that meaningful silver sinks would be beneficial, tons of ideas have been floated in that vein. The problem with training based silver expenses as I see it, even with scaling costs, is that it's regressive.

Something optional that people actually want would be my preference, like the lumnis gift they just put in. That's an optional, not insignificant, silver sink. But there's been a ton of other ideas as well.

rough summit
#

500k a week is regressive, it hurts newer and younger characters. Assuming the player isnt an alt. Training costs that increases as you get higher level is not regressive, its progressive like our tax system. The higher you are the more you pay. the problem as i see it is similiar to the real world. The wealth distrubtion is top heavy. Now i am not saying tax the rich, but the cost to train in my scenario would in theory be relative to what the average cap/post cap player would be expected to have

civic niche
#

I mean, you are kinda saying tax the rich. A consumption tax (training is a consumption tax) s always regressive by definition.

#

It's also fundamentally, in my opinion, bad game design, to tell people they have to "save" to level. What if they didn't. They are stuck without the ability to train?

sleek meadow
rough summit
#

i referenced that line to imply that in real life, i am not supportive of taxing the rich to an ungoldy level. Any tax system has to be progressive, or you only hurt the people with less. Lumnis is a great idea, i would love to know from players who have started recently can afford 500k a week vs older players and what the drain is in percent to their bank accounts. making ascension training cost increasing more and more silver. I dont have all the game data to answer ever question. However look at the market posts for stuff on sale. There is not a shortage of silver. the idea that people wouldnt have silver to train at higher level is absurb bro. Again reference the new lumnis gift. Any cap/post player that isnt doing is purely by choice not lack of funds. I would even venture to say that if you look at their locker inventory its filled with expensive gear that will likely never be used because there are no forces to create any liquiditiy in a system that has a endless supply of money

#

I didnt post to start any arguements just to offer an idea that might not have been attempted by the game creaters. Its obvious you dont like any of my ideas from the other thread and i respect that. We can agree to disagree and we both are probably wrong because we dont have access to critical information.

civic niche
#

A consumption tax is regressive, even if it scales. Even if it scales so much as to be almost non-existant at lower incomes/levels, it's still regressive unless you eliminate it at a certain point. I encourage you to look up the definition of regressive tax.

Adding a training tax, would have the same stifiling impact that silver costs for gemstone upgrades are having right now. People are making the decision that upgrading a gemstone for a .1% improvement in power, isnt' worth the 1M silvers to do so. If you taxed ASC training, a lot of people just would opt out of it. Because the gains from ASC are so fractionally small as to not be worth the cost.

rough summit
#

Okay i see your posts are getting edgy, so this will be my last post here. this is copied from wikipedia if you dont like the defintion show me another. A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases.[1][2][3][4][5] "Regressive" describes a distribution effect on income or expenditure, referring to the way the rate progresses from high to low, so that the average tax rate exceeds the marginal tax rate.[6][7]

The regressivity of a particular tax can also factor the propensity of the taxpayers to engage in the taxed activity relative to their resources (the demographics of the tax base). In other words, if the activity being taxed is more likely to be carried out by the poor and less likely to be carried out by the rich, the tax may be considered regressive.[8] To measure the effect, the income elasticity of the good being taxed as well as the income effect on consumption must be considered. The measure can be applied to individual taxes or to a tax system as a whole; a year, multi-year, or lifetime. the point you seem not to understand is IF THE ASCENSION TRAINING COSTS INCREASE OR TRAINING COSTS INCREASE ITS A PROGRESSIVE TAX, HIGHER LEVEL PLAYERS MAKE MORE SILVER AND WILL WITH AN EVER INCREASING TAX RATE TO TRAIN ITS A PROGRESSIVE TAX.

civic niche
#

You have a nice day, I'm not gonna have a discussion with people who post in all caps.

rough summit
#

i enourage you to learn about tax systems before you try to educate others. A consumption tax is regressive since its a flat tax and people with less income pay more of a percentage of their income relative to the wealthy. But thank you for encouraging me to learn about something you clearly dont understand

devout bobcat
minor falcon
# rough summit Okay i see your posts are getting edgy, so this will be my last post here. this ...

I think making an assumption that all capped players training in ascension are rich maybe a bad one. There are a lot of players that don't make a lot of money and it would be a bit rough to tax them for spending a lot of their time to train in ascension. Ascension is no picnic and is pretty harsh already with their gains as you go.

I think we are already going in a good direction though with adding some more silver sinks. I think we can add some more though like the claim boxes and stuff. maybe even bring back a few old ones with stuff in it. Hopefully we are already going in a good direction where silver prices will eventually go down.

I think if I had to pay silvers to train in ascension that would probably move me in the direction to quit. Especially with the amount of time it takes to train in ascension.

strong lake
#

Lumnis Donate is the tax.

minor falcon
#

I already barely upgrade gemstones because of the silver cost. 🤣

sleek meadow
crimson pond
cold zephyr
# rotund siren ...escort bounties between WL and EN used to be awesome before they got seriousl...

Escort bounties: In the time it took to run from WL to the nations, you could have done 3 or 4 from WL/Solhaven to IMT and earned more bounty points, experience and silver over a single long trip to the nations. This is what I found out years ago when the bounties were first introduced. The 5-10 minutes from WL/Sol to IMT and back over the 45 minute from WL/SOL/IMT to nations....

Then I took a couple years break from the game and when I came back bandits were updated and they absolutely slaughtered my wizard on an escort bounty about 10 rooms out of the town gates and I haven't done one since.

minor falcon
#

yeah it should be new things. No nerfs to existing systems just for the sake to get rid of silvers or penalize people further.

devout bobcat
#

It would be cool to see a silver shop of older DR items. Maybe if a script has been out for x years it could be considered for silver purchase.

sleek meadow
#

They want a silver sink let me pay silver for a golvern segment. Please and thank you.

hoary prawn
#

I hate and resent all the separate festival currencies. If they had to make festivals a 'pay to win' feature, they could at least have stuck to ONE festival currency or made it possible to exchange your unwanted Bloodscrip for Soul Shards for a modest fee.

crimson pond
#

You already can exchange your currency. It just requires interacting with other players. People trade currencies all the time though

civic niche
#

The cynic in me says, easier to sell more if they aren't freely exchangeable.

hoary prawn
sleek meadow
crimson pond
#

"Trading 30k soul shards for 25k bloodscrip". There's your modest fee. 🤷‍♂️

civic niche
#

It's annoying, agree. It's like no pawnshop in HW annoying. Can I work around it sure, but why should I have to.

strong lake
#

I would love to see the event currencies consolidated into just one.

crimson pond
#

I realize it's Monday, but man do I agree with Ufian's implication that coffee should be a requirement for interacting with discord. "hate and resent" is such strong language for a moderately annoying inconvenience. At any rate, my understanding is that the multi-currency situation is rooted in financial tracking requirements and not a malicious gotcha.

remote egret
#

I feel like very little they do is actually a "malicious gatcha" and just...unfortunately implemented or implemented for reasons players just don't agree with. Like - the GMs obviously love this game. They don't want people driven away.

strong lake
#

I think they could track simucoin sales occuring around the events themselves and call it a day.

dusky crest
#

I would also argue that multiple currencies could potentially even the playing field just a little. Some people, like me, buy into the fluff-oriented events more so I would carry more raikhen than bloodscrip so this, in theory, gives me a tiny edge in a raikhen-focused auction whereas a DR fan has the edge in a BS auction. Just a thought! (I clearly need more coffee too given the number of typos in this post that I had to edit)

civic niche
hoary prawn
chilly tulip
#

Ohhhhhh now the salt makes sense

civic niche
#

I think they all play, or did play, but that doesn't mean they play the same way we do.

remote egret
frozen tusk
hoary prawn
# remote egret I find that having a "most generous interpretation" to situations we don't have ...

Well, I’m truly happy for you if you can go through life interpreting collective punishment as solidarity and quite possibly armed robbery as an incentive to charity. Personally, while I do understand that the GMs can’t please everyone and probably shouldn’t try, I don’t think it hurts, either, to issue the occasional reminder that we, the players, are paying customers and not lab rats.
Gemstone isn’t a free game (unless you’re willing to accept some pretty severe restrictions) and compared to a lot of more modern games, it’s not cheap either. The very least we should expect is to be able to state our concerns and, yes, objections, without having to tiptoe around them.

remote egret
# hoary prawn Well, I’m truly happy for you if you can go through life interpreting collective...

I don't disagree that the players, as customers, should be able to state our concerns & objections. Even if it is repeating the same thing that has been said for 30 days.

Where I disagree with you is in HOW the disagreement is stated. Using phrases such as "armed robbery" is not conducive to the conversation. Neither is the (and pardon if this is NOT the message you wanted conveyed with the following statement) implication that GMs are so out of touch with the game because they don't play.

sleek meadow
#

Many do play. Many were long time players before they GM’d. This doesn’t make them all altruistic but I am pretty sure most do this for love of the game and have some knowledge of it even if their public responses can feel *corporate At times. I don’t believe they are being paid to ruin our time. That doesn’t mean they are always right or that we have to agree and I’d like better customer service in some areas. But GS is still a remarkably long lived game
With many passionate devs and GMs. There my nice thought for the day

chilly berry
#

I still don’t understand why the solution was to limit fun rather than adjusting the price of CLAIM and boosting the loot floor and prices globally as a flat percentage.

I’ll never agree that making a more boring state of gameplay more common for everyone is the right decision in a video game.

That’s my thought for the day.

remote egret
chilly berry
strong lake
#

I kinda feel like silver sinks should have been more thoroughly explored and implemented before throttling loot, but eh. It just feels bad, moved goal posts, and fixed... what?

remote egret
#

If none of it is real why did you steal my JOY when you outbid me on that GOTB stone!?

brazen salmon
frozen tusk
#

Once you hit 1% loot cap you instant absorb 1 experience point per mob killed.

But yeah, I didn't think I would hit loot cap so quickly but it's not really hard to do if you're farming for gemstones and play a couple of hours a day.

Other than gaining exp, which is great with lumnis donate and cashlonae, there's not much else for a large chunk of the month.

It would be 1 thing if something had replaced loot, but for the entirety of the games life its been hunt for exp and loot. Obviously those of us playing this game long term kind of like stability and its a big change that feels way more stick than carrot at the moment.

A lot of this comes back to communication. Good communication doesn't just come down to being open to it or engaging. Much of the communication still seems like folks getting really excited about something and jumping the gun and being disappointed when we're not exactly as thrilled as they are.

Some communication comes across as being not well thought out immediately. From my perspective, the game is funded by the powerusers. The extremes. They're the ones spending the majority of cash at paid events. They're the ones playing hours and hours. They're the ones hitting loot cap and bottom line not playing like GMs.

Are GMs paying thousands of dollars every paid event for these items? Did a GM pay $5000 to build a single item? Has any GM actually paid a $1000 for a pet?

Maybe staff doesn't engage the same way the players funding the game do. Maybe there is a disconnect.

Kinda rambled but those are my thoughts after reading the discussion this morning.

chilly berry
devout bobcat
brazen salmon
#

Please no, Luke would never do us this dirty. We can call it... Lenny cap.

chilly berry
south trail
chilly tulip
#

Old loot cap didn't bother me because while I did hit it, it took me most of the month to do it. New loot cap I hit in less than a week, not having changed my play time or habits at all. Looking at 3+ weeks of 1% loot and exp as my only hunting gains is pretty underwhelming and unmotivating to log on (I won't stop, I have no life)

remote egret
warm agate
#

As far as current GM ‘s who knows what they did as players , I would imagine since becoming a GM the majority of them have not spent $1000’s on the game. This mirrors a lot of the other aspects once you step into that role of GM your perspective on the game changes it has to in my opinion. You also have tools and trick and presumably some degree of knowledge of the gaming systems that exceeds the casual player. So a GM rolling up a PC in their free time in my mind does not even have close to the same experience of an average player let alone a new or casual player.

remote egret
chilly tulip
#

I never really gave that much thought. I think if you were managing to hit old loot cap in a week you were deliberately farming extremely hard so you sort of get what you get at that point. A lot of people are hitting new loot cap without doing what I think most people (at least previously) consider farming

remote egret
#

Fair. Thanks for answering. I definitely am in the "just wait and see" camp. Most beneficial items still seem to come from pay events using $$ so until we start seeing more (and REASONABLE, aka not gemstones unbinding/rerolling) silver sinks (love lumnis donate!) I'm not too troubled as my acquisitions were still limited by how much $$ I was willing to throw down at DR.

south trail
#

I think I would've preferred 2 gemstones a month and make the second easier to find... encouraging endless hunting for a 2nd gemstones created more silver than the gemstone mechanic drained, and now with the lower lootcap it feels even worse.

mellow gyro
sleek meadow
#

the gemstone market has tanked anyway...this seems like at least an interim step in the right direction.

chilly tulip
#

Gemstones are cooked

south trail
#

The mechanic should feel like - if I put in the effort, I get a reward, rather than - Grinding till my brain goes numb before Sunday night to get something that might be worth 100m but probably worth <1m.

minor falcon
#

grinding for that chance for more RNG

mellow gyro
#

There is an old adage that goes, "Don't shop with your wallet." and the misperceptions and hyperbole in this chat daily is wild.

boreal trench
sleek meadow
dusky kernel
remote egret
#

Man...that's a tough one. Have Nyxus keep pumping out changes...or take a break from GS to play another game in hopes of his return bringing another golden age of GS...

dusky kernel
#

Even Moses had to go up the mountain

#

Look its not really rocket science, just let there be actual progression towards rare/legendary gemstones via kills instead of just pure RNG

#

I'm not even saying specific ones, just "thanks for the 500 shards, I've coalesced them into a gemstone with COMMON and RARE properties, but I don't know what they will be until you open it!"

chilly tulip
#

They'll add that and make it cost 100m silver

brazen salmon
#

We'll give you onslaughts someday, with codexes.

dusky kernel
#

the codexes are also cursed

chilly berry
# dusky kernel Look its not really rocket science, just let there be actual progression towards...

Even if the RNG was the same overall, but gave the illusion of progression, it’s better.

Like instead of “1/1500 but pity ramps until guaranteed,” you just make it “fragments drop ~1 in X kills, turn in 100 fragments for the item.”

Mathematically you can tune X so the average time-to-drop is basically identical (and you can scale fragment costs for 2nd/3rd copies to match the rarer odds). Same expected grind, way less rage-inducing variance, and players feel like every run mattered.

Quick rates addendum:
• That 1/1500 ramp system averages out to ~750 kills for the first one → so 100 fragments would need to drop ~1 per 7–8 kills.
• If you want later ones to feel like ~1/5000 → 100 fragments would need to drop ~1 per 50 kills (or scale fragment cost accordingly).

If anyone wants the full math I can share it.

Edit: but then you can expand the system by offering login boosts that would maybe let you earn fragments faster or have additional fragments as a part of a quest reward or something.

Then the player actually has influence over how quickly they can earn those fragments. Or even have a major loot boost cut the rate in half or something.

dusky kernel
#

illusion of free will and all that

Z.png
chilly berry
dusky kernel
#

We are all illusions living on a mote of dust, floating in one of Scooter's daydreams

ashen carbon
#

Has there been any conversation about how Fash'lo'nae's gift interacts with LTE? I have 2 very close pulses here with gift on. It looks like I absorbed 79 field experience, which should amount to 395 total exp. Instead, I gained 411 total experience. (19 xp more than gift should give me), and lost 3 LTE. I also have the +50% base experience thing going on, so that probably muddles some of it up. I would expect if that were the case I'd be able to find 39-40 exp in there somewhere, but it appears not.

Experience: 7,785,215
Field Exp: 1,622/1,223
Total Exp: 7,785,215
Long-Term Exp: 11,301

Level: 100
Experience: 7,785,656
Field Exp: 1,543/1,223
Total Exp: 7,785,656
Long-Term Exp: 11,304```
gloomy lark
#

you gained 441, 5.5 x 79 is 435 (5x for gift and .5x for scroll)

#

I bet the 3 LTE is rounding up, so each one gains you 1.5, but then rounds to 2, hence the extra 6 exp

ashen carbon
#

that makes sense. I was mostly just really curious about the fact that LTE works on the fash gift. those extra xp are basically miniscule in the big picture, but I can't help keeping as much in that bucket as possible.

cold zephyr
#

Out on a bounty - find an heirloom from a critter. 30 critter kills later (and many other critter type kills along the way) I finally got the heirloom to drop, I walked out with 8 boxes and what amounted to 49,388 silver of other stuff looted (coins/wands/lockpicks/gems/etc). This hunt took about 25 minutes to complete (killing everything in my path), first 15 minutes with a major loot boost, last 10 without. 4 boxes found with the boost, 4 without.

Upon opening my boxes I made:
Loot boost boxes gave me a total of 40,081 silver from everything sold.
Non-loot boost boxes gave me 128,561 silver from everything sold. One box was just over 90k worth of items.

In all, my 25 minute hunt gave me 218,030 silver. I probably could have made another 25k if this character could skin. This hunt now brings my monthly loot to the 2mil mark. If I actually dedicated my time to maximizing my hunting/treasure gain I could be sitting at 7-8 mil right now and closing in on the soft loot cap.

For the record, normally a hunt is 10-15 minutes, this one just took forever to get that heirloom to drop and I usually take in about 50k a hunt for this level range I hunt in.

I still think this loot cap is a joke and a punishment and I've never even hit it once.

gloomy lark
#

are you lvl 100? just curious for research 🧐

split hamlet
#

Level and Creature hunted

cold zephyr
#

I have capped, but not hunting capped right now. Hunting in the 21-40 range right now. I made almost as much on this one hunt as I have in 8 hours with my pre-level 20 characters.

#

At the moment I wonder if a low loot pressure is the result of my hunt, with folks tending to be more into DR than hunting at the moment.....

gloomy lark
#

I definitely think that factors in, I got 8 or so boxes in less than an hour yesterday with no loot boosts and that has not been normal since the changes

bright pasture
vital badge
#

because it didn't move the needle as far as getting people out of the pressured area, they just hunkered down more

boreal bobcat
#

Loot pressure is the worst. The pits are so poor for me now!

civic niche
#

As vorlash said, the only people who really "move" for pressure are loot farmers. Most players aren't gong to change a hunting ground because of some nebulous concept they can't understand in the first place.
Am I getting less because of loot pressure, or RNG, I don't know. So I mayaswell stay.

bright pasture
#

but if they overhunt it, then it is poor. the point may not be to get them to move. it's to make them poor?

though i think the original point was to free GMs up from having to micromanage treasure levels

remote egret
#

Interesting...if loot pressure making a place poor didn't get players to change their behavior or continuously complain...how come hitting LC (but then still finding poor treasure) cause such an uproar?

civic niche
#

I’m 98% certian the purpose when it was released was to make people move around not act as a pseudo loot cap.

bright pasture
#

yes, but if low treasure is not enough to get them to move, then it is still accomplishing the goal which is less reward?

sleek meadow
civic niche
chilly tulip
#

Risk/reward falls apart a bit with the lower loot cap. SG loot is crazy, but once I'm loot capped, why deal with the more dangerous area with obnoxious movement mechanics? You can loot cap hunting Hinterwilds for a week.

bright pasture
#

well, i can say as a silver hunter when loot pressure was implemented...it definitely got me to move around! there was no other option

civic niche
bright pasture
split hamlet
#

Or just set silver rates by level.

boreal bobcat
#

Have we considered just removing silver/treasure all together and make everyone suffer the same?

gloomy lark
#

woah woah woah, calm down now

bright pasture
#

why are you not enjoying your interactive food puzzles

boreal bobcat
#

I think it's lame I have to change everything up to get any treasure at all even when not loot cap'd because other people can drive the loot into the ground.

main field
civic niche
bright pasture
#

all i know is that spent effort tends to equilibrate toward value gained. things are out of equilibrium right now, but the economy will inevitably shift and more or less go back to what it was before.

i miss the days where skill was a factor in silver earned and we will probably never have that again. now it's just, you paid your $$$ and you get your fixed silver value. it's boring but i get it

dusky kernel
dusky kernel
bright pasture
#

i just wish there was some way of still having spent effort translate into more value gained.

they are slowly implementing scaling silver with our level/experience. i think that is probably going to accomplish it. but it is seriously hesitant

#

i still toy with the idea of increasing loot cap by 1 mil for every 10 mil experience

sleek meadow
bright pasture
#

maybe there are saved posts from 2009 explaining the purpose of loot pressure

sleek meadow
mellow gyro
bright pasture
haughty ocean
bright pasture
# mellow gyro Want them?

Do you have any outside of those that relate to exactly the purpose behind loot pressure? I didn't find what I was looking for

mellow gyro
#

Thats specific enough I can look. Really the forums are still up so I'd probably go the Mechanics / Loot section. Is Ed trying to get Forums back, are you ED? 😉

image.png
vital badge
bright pasture
#

i miss the thoroughness of catching up on the forums

ashen carbon
crimson pond
#

Sailor's Grief. Most recent ASC hunting zone

main field
#

Sailors grief… newest ascension hunting zone

tender scarab
# strong lake I kinda feel like silver sinks should have been more thoroughly explored and imp...

Still catching up, but I remain amazed for both good and bad that Temple of Lumnis donations are only 250k for 51,100 exp after Wyrom’s February claim box last year proved that people would pay 10m for 42,875 exp.

Now, granted, those orbs were unattuned and the loot cap was higher and Fash’lo’nae’s Tutelage didn’t exist. Sure. But that’s always the challenge, isn’t it? Whenever they come up with something people would pay silvers for, many of the same people would also be willing to pay dollars (Simucoins) for it, which is better for the game.

So maybe we have to consider any silver sink suggestion as two suggestions. Just like the Temple donations and Tutelage were announced simultaneously, we come up with a pay event suggestion corresponding to any silver sink suggestion.

civic niche
boreal bobcat
#

Yeah I bought some of those orbs, didn't use a single one. I used the much cheaper orbs.

tender scarab
civic niche
#

I don't know, I feel like the long term, sustained spend, is gonna pull more than the one offs did per year. Also, nothing stops more noew interesting 1off event boxes.

tender scarab
#

I agree, but I'm implying (maybe not clearly enough) that it didn't have to be one or the other. They could have, for example, done two tiers of Lumnis donations: 250k unlocks 4x while 1m unlocks 5x and 4x.

civic niche
#

Oh, fair. I entirely missed that part.

250K/week I'll pay, 1M/week, nope. And I don't consider myself "poor" With the lower loot cap, that's just too much.

fast cipher
#

I'm glad they didn't the discord screams of haves vs have nots would have been deafening

unique oyster
#

I want to see the silvers generation data in a few months. I really want to know how effective all of this was and if the wealth gap between players grew or shrunk.

tender scarab
#

I don't anticipate that it will have shrunk in reality (shrunk measured in percentages, that is; it'll have shrunk by hard numbers) since the locksmith pool fees and Temple of Lumnis donations (and reduced gem values) hit the lower end harder than the high end. (Again, percentage-wise.) I could be wrong, but that's my expectation. Many of the high end just avoid the locksmith pool fees anyway by picking/408+407ing/125ing/bashing their own boxes, all of which I've seen a lot more of lately except maybe bashing. That one seems about as common as usual.

(This isn't a criticism, by the way, just an observation.)

Whether players feel better about it in perception is so much trickier to predict, though. Not thinking about that one at the moment!

granite tartan
# sleek meadow I have no issue with saying tax the rich. Put a monthly incremental tax on char...

Instead of taxing people, give people incentive to spend it instead. Add something like a Lumnis bonus or something similar that's game wide and separate from the existing Lumnis, and it only triggers once X amount of silvers are added to some sort of pool. And everyone gets it whether they sunk coins into it or not. Richer characters will almost definitely end up shouldering the majority of the cost, giving the same end result without creating resentment over a tax, and everyone benefits from it.

frosty sail
#

I agree lumnis donate is very reasonably priced. Haven't decided to throw real money at Fash though... it's like trying to go faster on an endless treadmill, what's the rush?

sleek meadow
#

a year...a full year of the Lumnis donation is an insignificant silver sink for the billionaires in the game. I'm not sure it will change a lot except to speed up leveling for the top 50% of players who can afford 13m a year. but in 2026 why not.

jolly palm
#

loot cap would be sooooo much less painful if we could at least find enhancive drops after hitting it....
Just make them unsellable at the pawn, like the DR loot.

At least dangle the carrot for us that maybe, just maybe you can find something that will be of value to someone (even though they're not generating increased currency in the system)

rough vault
#

We are fortunate that our GMs are not especially pernicious. They could have created an outcome of messages where at cap you still find the loot...so you see what it could have been...only to realize it was all in your imagination, or only to have a happy gremlin snatch it from you immediately.

fierce lynx
# jolly palm loot cap would be sooooo much less painful if we could at least find enhancive d...

Once you hit loot cap start providing Kontiibucks. You can ONLY accumulate them post loot cap and they have limited value (they are non-transferable and can only be used for a specific event or specific purchase type that people can save up for.) Also have an auction for very specific purpose items as well (not necessarily mechanically amazing) such that the system wiill somewhat regulate itself whether people generate 100 Kontibucks across the land per month or 10m Kontibucks (they'll just bid higher with more Kontibucks in their account.)

No impact on silver generation and limited benefit but you get a number to go up while hunting.

jolly palm
bright pasture
civic niche
#

Actually, I'd 100% pay for that messaging, at least then I'd know I was loot capped, instead of having to just watch for some loot and hope.

tender scarab
#

Yeah, I'd absolutely without question pay for that at Rumor Woods to know when I'm loot capped instead of having to meticulously track silver gains just to get a ballpark.

shell phoenix
#

Hmm I assume starting to get items that are permanently marked as unsellable in Duskruin is a sign that I'm at\approaching loot cap

vital badge
#

yes
if you can't pawn them at all

tender scarab
#

You should have been seeing [messages alerting you about that](#1469401978546159697 message) when you enter the arena/sewers. If you aren't, that might be a bug!
With loot cap not ignoring event drops, if you select DUSKRUIN REWARD LOOT, after 10mil silver is earned in the month, you will start to see a message that you are approaching the loot cap. You can leave it on and still get loot, you are still capable of getting a 6x weapon or a nice enhancive, but once you start seeing that message your item cannot be sold at the pawnshop. The messaging happens when you enter the arena or the sewers, so if you want to switch once you see that message, you can.

bright pasture
#

well there's the solution - just leave Duskruin open all the time and you can check your loot cap

boreal bobcat
#

Heh I hope the warning isn’t broke.

shell phoenix
#

I haven't actually seen a message about it yet, it's just an item or two every once in a while that is unsellable

bright pasture
#

maybe you can just keep that item for next month and see when you can/can't sell it

wait, did I say the quiet part out loud

dusky kernel
shell phoenix
#

Ah ha! There's the message now.

chilly berry
tender scarab
#

Oh yeah, I should drop the price on those while I'm thinking about it.

frosty gate
south trail
#

Another day without HESS/Annex feels like another day waiting in the lobby heh

simple canyon
#

Does it at least offer free cucumber water?

south trail
dusky kernel
#

HESS opens a week after DR pretty consistently for the last few. Its been 3 days

ashen carbon
#

I already feel like I'm running out of time

neat tangle
#

Having purchased a fash4cash, how much exp do I actually need to absorb to "finish" for my week? I thought it would be 20k absorbed resulting in 100k bonus and I'd be done. I turned in 100 duskruin entries for 20k exp(and waited to absorb) and...I'm still seeing the messaging in EXP

dusky kernel
#

25k absorbed after lumnis 25k au natural nets you 100k bonus, total is 125k which is 5x the original 25k. Yes its 5x all the way

neat tangle
#

Is fash 5x from start to finish?

#

ah, I'm following now. it isn't 20k, as 20k of the 100k is not bonus. so 25kx5 is 125k-25k=100k bonus.

thorn mantle
pastel pewter
#

It's a great adventure to find a box you can't pick up. I've done it twice as a maxed out human, and that was before this change. I'd prefer that we not tweak away that adventure.

twin ginkgo
#

It is exciting to find a box that big but you used to be able to collect the coins from inside. This had a roughly 389 pound ingot that the majority of races would need another player to pick up then bring to the gem shop and sell for them

open silo
#

So, it looks like when you do a lumnis reset (the once every 6 months) that while the experience modifier resets, the essence gathering bonus doesn't? I hunted like 8 hrs for only 5k essence...which is even crazier than strait time. I can't be taking 80 hrs to get my 50k on the reset.

open silo
open silo
boreal bobcat
#

What essence gathering bonus? You mean where you would accumulate resources at a 1:1 with experience so lumnis made it faster? Yeah that's gone. But it takes roughly the same amount of time online as it did previously to max resources.

open silo
#

Yeah, I was talking about being slower after a manual reset (not the normal weekly reset), but I think it was just me calculating my time IG with experience gain incorrectly. Seems to be moving normal now.

jolly palm
#

Just dropping some feedback here around how quickly people are hitting loot cap and its impact.

In one of my other chats…. Some folks who are pretty much the most positive people imaginable and find the silver lining in everything posted these comments… these aren’t people who generate silvers to sell or anything.

I do agree that they've created a perverse disincentive to continue playing after a point in a month...I hope they are working on a way to create another incentive that is compelling enough to override the lack of silver gain

Another said this:


1) not spend any extra on simucoins. 
2) cancel accounts. 

I’ve shared my thoughts on discord a number of times now. I’m pulling lever #1 by way cutting spending this DR………

I’m not at cancel accounts yet. I’ll give them a couple months before I start canceling or selling off or anything.```
And another followed with:
```I def need to downgrade two accounts to prime, if not just cancel for a while```
Another gem from the convo:
``` Yea, I've definitely decided there is not much that makes me want to not bother logging in more than getting zero silver in a hunt```
**I can’t express enough how much a post loot cap carrot needs to be explored. The people above are not the knee jerk reaction types.**
unique oyster
#

Having 10m be the monthly cap really puts into perspective how much things cost. Now when I see people selling services, battle vaults, and BS, I can't help but compare it to the monthly cap and measure how many months of hunting it would take for me to afford that stuff.

21m for a battle vault? That's more than two months of hunting assuming I hit the loot cap each month. I really hope these prices come down soon because it is very disheartening to see.

chilly tulip
#

1m silver to unbind a single property gemstone that you can now buy from a player for 750k silver

crimson pond
#

(the monthly "not-quite-hard" cap is 15m)

normal drum
civic niche
#

You know, another side effect of these exp changes, I don't really care in the least about a wisdom of ages streak anymore.
Which is probably bad, as far as the feature is intended. They should probably buff it.

chilly tulip
#

Wisdom of the Ages may be the most underwhelming feature ever implemented

civic niche
#

I don't disagree, but I'm up to an extra exp per pulse now, with the promise of more. Which felt like "something". Now, it feels like nothing.

vital badge
#

it's more for folks who may not take advantage of Lumnis and Cash. This allows them to gain a benefit from staying subbed.

civic niche
#

I mean, it's to keep people subbed, regardless of them spending on the other things. IT no longer serves as a motivation for that imo. (Though again, the argument that it served it's purpose in the first place is certainly open to debate.)

frozen tusk
#

Wisdom of ages was just incredibly poorly implemented. Everyone should of been maxed out immediately so you had something to LOSE versus a decade of incredibly small gains

civic niche
#

That...yeah, that.

gloomy lark
#

btw what is maxxed out? (60 months?)

sleek meadow
#

can you pay into the infinte future? Someone try and donate 1 billion and lets see!

civic niche
tender condor
#

assuming like most gemstone things it's a 32 bit int you would need ~2,200,000,000 * 250,000 to see if you can crash the game (and potentially double that). You're gonna need more accounts.

light ferry
#

Wisdom of the ages adds so little per month that I ignore it. I'm also not sure the answer to the 15m cap being hit too soon is make it take longer to hit that 15m 😂 I'm not at 15m yet, but its starting to feel a lot like it was when I was past that last month. I just did a 10 minute hunt for a cull bounty and came back with 4k. (Based on skin values I'm probably ~90% loot penalty instead of 99%)

boreal bobcat
#

I don't really mind the cap, what I do mind is hunting in the pits and getting nothing for it when I'm not even at 10m where it's suppose to slow down.

remote egret
#

I frankly don't understand. My characters are on/hunting most weekdays 5-7 hours and I never earn close to 10m a month in loot

chilly berry
#

For what it’s worth, people are still just now finding out that event entries with silver as the reward affected by Luke loot cap.

after they’re finding unsalable things.

Just thought I would throw that out there.

boreal bobcat
#

That warning might be off by a decimal or something. He said it would give you the warning and still give you sellable things sometimes, suppose to be in the players favor, ect. So it seems weird people are getting the no sell items and then the messaging after that starts happening.

vital badge
frozen tusk
umbral lotus
#

I have never come close to cap, and still have hunts were i come back with essentially zero loot in HW, zero gems, a low end magical item and a few hundred silvers in 20-30 kills

#

add in a less than 50 percent skin success rate for skins worth 1-300 silvers on avg

brazen salmon
#

If you're hunting Ojanhahahahahart or Elduhahahahahart, you're doing it for bounties... there's zero loot there. Boreal Forest is probably pretty poor too.

The only loot left in HW is in the more dangerous spots.

But we're gonna get more people to cap faster and into those spots making loot even (somehow) worse.

frozen tusk
#

Boreal forest has loot. I just finished a 15 min hunt.

image.png
brazen salmon
#

You pulled 12.6k in skins out of Boreal Forest in 15m? That's crazy.

frozen tusk
#

Empath. 3x FA, 2x Survival. 88 ranks of trading. 30 influence bonus.

remote egret
boreal bobcat
#

There’s no loot in the pits either!

light ferry
#

Plenty of loot in the hive 😂

remote egret
#

Yeah - actually I was doing ok in the hive even without skinning. But...need to get my empath a bit more exp first before he comes with.