#[Official] Loot and Experience Changes

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

fading flare
#

I only have 300-400 jars! What would I do with them then?!?

Honestly, gem bounties could be updated to something more like an heirloom task. "Find a rare gem that drops" or something. I'd be fine with it, even though Heirloom tasks are buggy as heck and sometimes never give you the item. (Can we fix that too, with like a 50 mob limit?)

frosty sail
#

yep if i don't have the gems already in stock, i pass on the bounty

amber osprey
#

This is a bug

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It's in the process of being fixed

cold zephyr
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I've made maybe a mil since the changes and maybe a mil before, I still have yet to get 2 emeralds on my warrior after now 8 hunts using major loot boosts. 8 emeralds were needed he got the bounty before the changes, found 6 after a hunt or two. Since then, not a single emerald. He's seen maybe 2 diamonds and 4 or 5 rubies, otherwise mostly pearls and sapphires and he's collected over 80k in silvers just from creature looting alone.

boreal bobcat
#

But things in lockers aren't in game! It's more about clearing out those private properties!

finite trench
#

can’t believe you broke gem bounties and are now FIXING them

crimson pond
fierce lantern
tropic creek
#

Anyone know if bolting an ingot halves it's value or some other percentage? I know the silvers were halved when slabbed before, but those could be converted to gold.
So I'm wondering what the overall hit is on this change to ingots slabbing now

wispy forum
#

im still hung up on my logic about removing loot cap entirely, but i know now it will fall on deaf ears more than ever; just know, i am not placated, and i will remember #neverforgetlootpocalypse 2026

sturdy ridge
tropic creek
#

Yeah, that's where my brain is at in the wondering on this. Need to check the numbers and see what will be better.

jagged quail
ashen carbon
#

“now after listening to all that, do you really think it’s too much that I’m gonna ask you to do 45 minutes of homework a day?”

Honestly, yes. I'm 50 years old now, but I still remember going from a straight A student to barely above Cs due to being given hours and hours of homework in high school. When every teacher has that attitude and you have 6-8 classes that means you're doing what 4-6 hours of homework every single night? I'm exaggerating a bit, but not by much. I distinctly remember going from being proud of my work to not giving a damn somewhere mid sophmore year.

Gifted, with undiagnosed ADHD and autism certaintly doesn't help, I'm sure. Probably not a tangent we want to go down.

fiery cove
ashen carbon
cold zephyr
fading flare
#

Field Exp: 2,626/2,076
Highest I've managed so far on a 1100 exp bounty turn in.

boreal bobcat
#

Nice to see it's not capped at 500 instant!

rotund siren
slate bluff
fading flare
granite tartan
#

Where you hunt is just as important as how much you hunt as far as loot goes.

#

As soon as I heard the locksmith pool was being targeted months ago I stacked a full set of pick/disarm enhancives.

That said though, you're still not gonna be able to pick probably 3/4 of ascension boxes, or disarm much over -400 or so as a wizard.

EDIT: pick

royal epoch
#

That's depressing!

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What about Water Lore?

granite tartan
#

Yes, when do we get the interesting part?

vital badge
#

do we need it with 416 and 407?

frozen tusk
#

I tried a super 171 rank MnE bard with 100 water lore. Did not go well.

granite tartan
vital badge
#

what if, hear me out... water lore directly added to your available loot cap?

frozen tusk
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I think we need to open up box bashing to everyone. Kind of silly my morning star can't smash a box but I can take down a gigas.

Gate it behind a strength requirement. Must have at least 40 bonus to strength.

bright pasture
vital badge
cold zephyr
#

Seems that either this is a one off or NPC locksmith doesn't recognize the "special" boxes dropped from boss creatures:

You remove a gilded delicate case engraved with the image of a pile of gems from in your leather backpack.
>rin bel
You ring the brass bell, but Jyhm ignores you.  Either get a chest in one of your hands so he can look at it, or else ORDER something.
>put case on cou
You put a gilded delicate case engraved with the image of a pile of gems on a leather topped counter.
>rin bel
You ring the brass bell, but Jyhm ignores you.  Either get a chest in one of your hands so he can look at it, or else ORDER something.
>get case on cou
You remove a gilded delicate case engraved with the image of a pile of gems from on a leather topped counter.```

For me it doesn't matter, I can open it myself, just keeping track of things for my own personal use. I know you can dump these in the locksmith pool, but the NPC doesn't seem to care.
boreal bobcat
#

Nope scroll is a .5x modifier. Does that make it a 3 day green orb?

  13:22:15     33     normal      1694  off node
  13:24:39     48     normal      1634  with scroll
  13:46:40    147     normal      2367  with violet orb

In other news, for the second time I've found out I'm still resting in the wrong room of my property ... I must have been on a bender when I added that node.

finite trench
#

I thought the xp changes specifically killed the multiplier on enlightenment effects, so it no longer matters whether you are running other RPA effects during the enlightenment period.

digital turtle
boreal bobcat
#

It says they changed multiplying orbs total bonus experience yes.
But that is different that adjusting your base experience absorption.
I thought the scrolls were +50% to base absorption meaning instead of 33 * multiplier it would be 48 * multiplier, but perhaps that is how it was multiplying orb bonus experience previously.

Nah you can use them whenever Drigler. No difference at all now.

finite trench
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I do think that if the DR battlepass is going to have an enlightenment scroll it might be a good idea to really blast out that the way these work have changed BEFORE selling the battlepasses, assuming that they have changed the way I think they have, because otherwise people are going to be surprised they aren't getting as much xp as they expect after buying the battlepass and that is just going to be inconvenient for everyone.

fiery cove
finite trench
#

also these call lightning changes are actually amazing. can I now 125 all the boxes in my backpack and then just sit there until they explode inside my container? that's going to be hilarious. now all we need is a blessings lore effect that makes the storm not char scrolls

boreal bobcat
#

adds scroll charging to list of things to check if it increases value

sturdy ridge
sleek meadow
#

did someone try casting inside their backpack before this change got rolled out? Is that like the first person to eat that special red berry that was on the tree with all the dead animal corpses around it?

boreal bobcat
#

My problem has always been omitting a target ...

sturdy ridge
#

Sometimes you type drop coffer sometimes you type ro coffer

finite trench
sleek meadow
#

what if you have other things in your backpack with the boxes? that nice pair of spare pants and a glass of whiskey? won't they be impacted by the giant storm in that little satchel? I'm now seeing disks like those SWAT bomb boxes...for some reason

vital badge
sturdy ridge
#

I think everyone should get to experience the positive changes first hand, Make sure you can phase or use piercing gaze

frozen tusk
# finite trench will the boxes take damage also though or just me? also, does a container at fee... 
You gesture at an enruned gold box.
[Spell Hindrance for a suit of stygian rusalkoren platemail suffused with erratic caligninous whorls of azure is 96% with current Armor Use skill, d100= 36]
Your spell falters, then steadies as the magic finds another path.
You notice a small cloud form over an enruned gold box.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>cc
--- Lich: exec1 active.
[exec1]>look in my cloak
>
In the plumille cloak:
Containers [2]: a copper-ringed spyglass sporting a wren-etched handle, an enruned gold box```
Let's science

```The diamond on your silver ring flares brightly as it absorbs the electric shock!```

It was a draw.
finite trench
#

enruned

blazing violet
#

Now I really want to see what happened there.

finite trench
#

this is what we in the science business call a confound, you have to do it on a box that is not naturally immune to lightning

sleek meadow
finite trench
#

if container at feet doesn't work you can still go into private rooms to blow up boxes but container at feet would make it more fun. although still the problem of identifying glyph traps before they kill you

frozen tusk
# 
Your widowwood anklet pulses briefly, deflecting some of the electrical damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to left leg.  You cringe in surprise.
The steel coffer is vaporized!
>
You begin to feel better as the cuts on your left leg close and the bruises fade.
>cc
--- Lich: exec1 active.
[exec1]>look in my cloak
In the plumille cloak:
Containers [3]: an old suede jacket, a copper-ringed spyglass sporting a wren-etched handle, an enruned gold box
Clothing [1]: a mithril and star emerald earring
Special [1]: a vibrant scholar's card
Misc [1]: a rough slab of silver
Total items: 6
>```

Was able to cast at it while in my cloak and items remained in my cloak
chilly tulip
#

That's sensational

vital badge
#

this can only end in hilarity.
@frozen tusk can you do it at your feet?

frozen tusk
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I can see it now, cast 125 at 10 boxes in my cloak. I have a goal.

finite trench
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now we're getting somewhere. pop your boxes AND charge your ranger trinket, it's a win-win-potentially die

boreal bobcat
# 
  14:27:12                 66500896        280     normal  2123
  14:28:08                 66501253        357     normal  2081
  14:29:04                 66501788        535    instant  2018

violet orb + 50% scroll
add in 5x lumnis
add in fast absorb boost for 535 lol my tracker thinks it's instant absorb it's so high
also it's wild looking at the difference wisdom of the ages ticks at this

  14:31:51                 66503376        535    instant
  14:30:54                 66502841        518    instant
vital badge
frozen tusk
vital badge
split hamlet
#

Like this? Selling a tiny pink vial, granting 12.5k profession resource instantly! Or that thing you can touch on FWI to get 25k resources?

finite trench
vital badge
slate edge
#

curious what happens if you just place the box AT FEET instead of a container with the box in it. I tested it on GSTest but that may not have the update there. So curious to see what it does in Prime.

finite trench
#

what happened on test

boreal bobcat
slate edge
# finite trench what happened on test 
>place feet
You carefully place your white oak strongbox on the ground alongside you.
>prep 125
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Call Lightning spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast strongbox
You gesture at a scratched white oak strongbox.
You notice a small cloud form over the white oak strongbox placed alongside you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You notice the storm cloud begin to churn rapidly!
>
The storm cloud begins to build into a thunderhead!
>
You hear the rumbling of thunder as the cloud turns an ominous dark hue!
>
Suddenly a lightning bolt explodes from the small thundercloud and strikes the white oak strongbox placed alongside you with a brilliant flash with some of the bolt hitting you!
Your body resists the electrical damage and lessens the severity of the attack!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to right arm.  Gonna hurt tomorrow.
The white oak strongbox is vaporized!
>
A quiet wind disperses the dark cloud.
>look
[Wehnimer's, Exterior - 418] (u9006)
You are on the merchant road that leads to and from Wehnimer's Landing.  The path continues there to the southeast.  The merchant road continues along the coast, leading to other parts of Elanthia.  To go that way is to trust to luck and your own skills.  You also see an uncut emerald, some ambrominas leaf and a gate leading west to the games arena.
Obvious paths: southeast
>hands
You have some silver coins in your right hand and an exquisite multicolored backpack in your left hand.
simple canyon
#

it's a very old script, but it is intended to hurt you if the box is on you, whether it's in a container or not. it isn't current on Test at the moment

#

it'll be corrected one way or another

finite trench
#

it's like they don't even WANT us to direct lightning bolts against objects close to our body

slate edge
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So GSTest is old behavior for comparison. Just need someone to actually show what it does on Prime now!

vital badge
#

who you calling old!?! Oh, I had to put my glasses on

finite trench
#

whether or not at feet works, you can still do the carryall lightning show, but a table/private room might be necessary

crimson pond
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Can you even cast 125 at a table?

finite trench
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god only knows, I have 220

slate edge
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anyone testing the AT FEET stuff (I don't have spiritual caster to test with in Prime/Shattered)

jagged quail
simple canyon
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blowing up AtFeet boxes was updated years ago to spill contents AtFeet (along with bashing)

vital badge
#

I think we want to know if you will die

simple canyon
#

yes

#

that hasn't changed. if the box is on you at all (AtFeet is still in your inventory), you can be struck

#

the recent update didn't change that behavior. it made it so a box you're holding also spills contents AtFeet

#

ask Rolfard about it 😄

swift pawn
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just symbol of transcendence right before the strike 😛

fierce lantern
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I still think a gold ingot and silver coins should make an electrum bar....

split hamlet
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Zapping gold should increase the crit rank since gold is an excellent conductor

boreal bobcat
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Gold ingots should disperse lightning. Value of ingot determines number of targets and damage factor.
I mean as something to toss in a room, not when popping a box 😁

tender scarab
#

Next auction or HESS item: the Franklin Badge.

blazing violet
# split hamlet Like this? Selling a tiny pink vial, granting 12.5k profession resource instant...

I commented about the lantern in FWI just below the comment you responded to, but that tiny pink vial would be the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Of course, I've never encountered one of those. Presumably it comes out of a lock and key set? That's something I've also never seen. In order for a vial like that to be useful in the same way that orbs were for resources, they'd need to be available to "normal people" in similar ways. Like gift/event boxes, fishing for coins at EG, AotA drops, etc.

rough vault
#

Need a slabinator to magically store and remelt up to 10 slabs weightlessly, with a jack in the box hand crank that pops out a scary clown at you and drops a silver brick to sell at gemshop.

simple canyon
#

Call Lightning is current in Test now

split hamlet
blazing violet
rough vault
#

Call lightning would be cooler in Sith form

slate edge
# 
>place feet
You carefully place your white oak coffer on the ground alongside you.
>prep 125
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Call Lightning spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast coffer
You gesture at a plain white oak coffer.
You notice a small cloud form over the white oak coffer placed alongside you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>
You notice the storm cloud begin to churn rapidly!
>
The storm cloud begins to build into a thunderhead!
>
You hear the rumbling of thunder as the cloud turns an ominous dark hue!
>
Suddenly, a lightning bolt explodes from the small thundercloud and strikes the white oak coffer placed alongside you with a brilliant flash, with some of the bolt hitting you!
Your body resists the electrical damage and lessens the severity of the attack!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Nasty shock to left arm stiffens joints.  Nice and painful.
   You are stunned for 3 rounds!
The white oak coffer is vaporized!
!S>
A quiet wind disperses the dark cloud.
>inv
You are wearing a reinforced black canvas backpack, a blackworked white linen pouch, and a pair of slashed leather shoes.

Placed alongside you are a rough slab of gold, a rough slab of silver, a white flask, and a drake scimitar.

[Click INVENTORY HELP for more options.]
sleek meadow
#

does this mean that ranger electricity trinkets are going to be a hot item going forward?

civic cave
#

You can also step out of the room and wait for the lightning to blast the box - but you also run the risk that the janitor will sweep up the box while you're not there.

finite trench
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it would be nice for at feet to not blast you just in that 125 is already suboptimal to use without worrying about other players stealing your stuff. but, you know, it'll work out

boreal bobcat
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Could be fun. Get a group of people, entry is a box. Drop it in the room and 125. Whoever get's zapped get's the loot. If they survive.

Gotta be naked.

finite trench
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I don’t think you will get zapped if you are not actually hugging the box, it’s not gem of fate (although it could be gem of fate)

vital badge
#

it has a chance to zap the room if it's not in your inventory, moreso if it's magical in some way

tender scarab
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You'd have to ask Wyrom. He's been saying it in [2021 ](#duskruin message), [2022](#1049529762407792761 message), and [2025](#1446966828239949834 message) and it's why vaults are priced as they are to match the median spend.

civic cave
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125 is one of those old-Gemstone-philosophy spells that's basically useless outside of extremely niche circumstances and should probably be scrapped or remade entirely. 🤷

finite trench
brazen salmon
#

But my papermaker!

vital badge
#

sounds like more science is to be done

ashen carbon
#

We should have a thread for spell suggestions for lvl 100 for each class. We'll never get them, but it would be a fun excersize.

swift pawn
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we got a 125 test thread going?

fiery cove
ashen carbon
knotty aspen
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Didn't want to clutter this thread directly with a meme, so will link instead: #1461962200099983400 message

swift pawn
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confirmed you can cast 125 at (box) in (player) disk and it doesn't zap - this is on test

#

can also cast at it while holding it and stash it in your disk and not get zapped (test)

#

oh- well I guess you can do that on LIVE too

fading flare
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A good workaround if it stays that way. Disks are ungrounded….no electrical transfer? Hmm.

simple canyon
#

not anymore!

swift pawn
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🙁

simple canyon
#

that was never intended. it's...a very, very old script

swift pawn
#

... there is a fell voice on the air...

fiery cove
fading flare
#

consults notes
Could an Elanthia disk weighing approximately 15 lbs and capable of holding 500lbs, created from magical substance, withstand the force of a lightning bolt without shattering.

Addendum:
Assuming said magical substance is conductive and/or capable of holding a significant charge, would it surpass 1.21 gigawatts?

#

Your box has been teleported through time!

tender condor
# simple canyon not anymore!

In exchange can we just put the thundercloud inside the disk, then dismiss /flip it to drop it instantly flaring on a target. Also it should work while incapacitated so it can be faux status break. Also, only i should be able to do this.

fiery cove
swift pawn
#

ok- just confirmed on LIVE - boxes in disks no longer protect you

fading flare
fiery cove
frosty gate
#

Sorry if this has been answered already but...does silver from bounty rewards affect loot cap at all? The rewards themselves don't seem to be affected, just wondering with all of the changes if the rewards themselves get you to loot cap faster now.

marble haven
simple canyon
#

disks don't make you zap-proof 😉

sleek meadow
knotty aspen
#

If lightning attuned, that'd be nice 😉

split hamlet
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Where is the disk located if it's zapping you? I always considered it was stationary somewhere in the room, not up my ...

I see it like casting at a box on the ground, it's not on me. The only benefit over casting at a box on the ground is that the loot is in a protected container so that someone can't loot room and take it all.

swift pawn
#

magically tethered to you though, and the lightning is magically called upon- I figure that might be the avenue.

lucid latch
warm agate
#

With enough padding you might survive 🌩️

sleek meadow
#

we should be able to put those stupid lost children in disks so they could keep up when we move...and only occasionally cast 125 in there while they are inside

simple canyon
#

We should be able to Phase children

zenith meadow
#

naiken? are the lesser mood flourish on flare gloves suppose to have no third party messaging?

vital badge
simple canyon
zenith meadow
#

it is enabled but only i see them going off. they see the other ambients and lesser mood from other people

simple canyon
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The third party, that is

#

Do others have ambient from others enabled or going to a covered window?

vital badge
#

I can't see his 3rd party messaging. Then again, I'm not in-game and had my eyes closed.

zenith meadow
simple canyon
#

It's not a Flourish if you mean they're unlocked on your gloves

fierce lantern
#

I'm not certain why this is related to the loot and experiences changes

simple canyon
#

Yeah. It's not 😁

vital badge
#

it was a case of: "See a GM in the wild and ask him anything!"

sleek meadow
zenith meadow
#

sorry for expecting stuff to work and staff to be helpful without catching a stray, please go back to whining and crying on topic

bright pasture
#

you used to be able to prep 975, prep 999, etc., and they had spell names as place holders. would be cool if anyone had a list of all of those old names

south trail
boreal bobcat
#

When did they ever say they were targetting MA groups? I think you're conflating player opinion with stated intent.

south trail
finite trench
#

yeah the box change has nothing to do with MA groups. if it were bad for MAing players it would presumably not get implemented. Wyrom has said a few times in the past that the implementation of the locksmith pool caused a big rise in loot production, presumably because before the locksmith pool people just didn't get boxes opened and dumped them instead (I understand the weirdness of this idea but that seems to be what they think). so naturally as part of lowering loot production overall they took aim at what they consider to be one of the main faucets

south trail
boreal bobcat
#

When you show me numbers to support your claims. Preferably pre nerf loot numbers and post nerf loot numbers not counting january. Then we can discuss how it expands the gap.

finite trench
#

broadly I agree, both the gem change and the box cost change logically increase the wealth gap by imposing broad based taxes.

sleek meadow
#

How about at some time during the month on a random day a 50% wealth tax on all coins over 100m on any account just happens. 👹.

deep orbit
#

which wealth? the wealth of the player? the character? the account?

boreal bobcat
#

Can you show me numbers of what all your gems generated at value wise last month Tikba?

south trail
# boreal bobcat When you show me numbers to support your claims. Preferably pre nerf loot number...

pffft, you know I have no numbers and will never have access to numbers. I thought it was commonly accepted knowledge and big MA groups (which I do not oppose, power to them), have their own lockpickers, so they have no reason to use the pool, (other than for storage), ergo, someone bringing in 100 boxes from a hunt will pick their own boxes and will make 200-300K more, than 20 people who bring in 5 boxes each from a hunt and pay the 2-3K fee per box.

finite trench
#

basically whenever wyrom has talked about this he has said that hitting loot generation ACROSS THE BOARD (which necessarily means bringing down median and below median players) will be necessary to achieve the large goal of reducing silver generation per month. you are right to note that broad-based loot generation nerfs do not reduce the wealth gap. that hasn't really been why wyrom has suggested them in the past; he is usually more concerned with the one big figure of "how much silver is there in the game." the loot cap is the part of the design that is supposed to constrain wealth inequality

split hamlet
south trail
finite trench
boreal bobcat
#

Thank you for proving my point. 0 -> 15 is a huge shrink compared to 0 -> 35.

finite trench
#

I agree, the loot cap drop is the big and most relevant change when it comes to wealth inequality. good design, except for the 1% leakage

boreal bobcat
#

But seriously my point is data is needed to make any serious assertations. Before they raised the floor on gems I would have agreed the bad hunters were getting the hose.

finite trench
#

I see the argument, but I think what we know about medians and maximums is enough to at least set out some archetypes of play and their relative populations. given that we know the median silver income is, what, 4-5m? we can make pretty authoritative claims about how the changes will affect at least 50% of players

bright pasture
boreal bobcat
#

Guess I need to add appraise back in to capture the rarities. But here's what I've gatheres so far on the latest changes.

image.png
finite trench
#

nice and clean as regards gem tiers

crimson pond
#

These changes hit MA the hardest! I'm finding 9 crappy gems instead of 1! This obviously means my loot is 9x crappier. HAAALP!

/s

south trail
#

I think my concern, and this is just me, is that I used to use USD to supplement my meagre silver generation to buy stuff at the festivals. i.e., I put in my "work", which was actually fun, working toward a goal, and then I'd treat myself by filling in the gap. Now it feels like all my purchases will need to be solely USD. E.g., this year I was thinking about stretching to get flare affinity. That's just not going to happen anymore. I'm 100% certain I'm not going to spend more than my typical USD spend. The question is how much less USD will I spend - the idea that I'm paying 100% USD or mostly USD for an item feels like I'm just paying to win which feels awful. As opposed to helping push me over the top of the hill by briding the gap. Again, this is just me.

tender scarab
#

It might be a little early to be concerned about that since one thing stated before the changes was that the loot cap had to come down to [avoid eliminating CLAIM boxes](#game-chatter message). Now it has, so we'll see what happens with them.

bright pasture
finite trench
#

well, flare affinity is 400k scrip. how much silver generation is "meager" to you? because that's, like, a lot of silver!

digital turtle
boreal bobcat
#

I wouldn't take any median silver income number serious.
We are never given details of how that number is aquired.
Is it including F2P that can only make 3m or 1.5m now a month?
Is it actual loot cap generation the numbers are from or peoples bank accounts?

crimson pond
#

It still blows my mind that they can't just like..query the database.

south trail
finite trench
amber osprey
vital badge
#

they certainly can, but whether we're entitled to that information is another story.

finite trench
#

I'm so entertained by just the intensity of that link

split hamlet
#

Most of the upgrades come via event currency. This isn't likely to change in the future, may as well get used to it.

Silvers were and will most likely continue to be the primary currency for player to player transactions. Not game to player.

chilly berry
jolly palm
# crimson pond It still blows my mind that they can't just like..query the database.

Even if this was a thing that they could do.... it doesn't really factor in player behavior...

Like - does it count the 20 alts that were just doing 1 hunt to generate offline resource gains for their 50k weekly?

Based on the outrage over the weekend, I'm guessing there were more of them than we think, and they're all included in the median/mean numbers

amber osprey
crimson pond
split hamlet
#

The median is meaningless. Tell me how many individual characters generated 5m silvers, how many generated 10m, 15m, 20m, 35m.

tender scarab
chilly berry
ashen carbon
split hamlet
#

Are you hunting Nelemar or OTF

jolly palm
#

Gotcha, yeah. It would definitely give a clearer picture of what's out there at least. (referencing Kaetel's post)

And agree with Alastir - i think the # of accounts hitting different thresholds is probably a better indicator. Although That'll be much easier now though!

boreal bobcat
#

Just gotta listen on thoughtnet for people complaining about loot cap next month.

jolly palm
fast cipher
# chilly berry

Wasn't this 4m in November it was not 4m was the average of the bottom 95% not median. December is a weird month with the holidays and (some) people having other priorities.

split hamlet
#

I would just replace the random loot at DR with a gold ingot worth 10k. Then it would be clear you're using up your loot cap.

Do you want XP, Silvers or Bloodscrip as treasure.

sleek meadow
#

Along with the loot cap verb I’d love a played verb that shows me how long my account and that character has been logged on during the last 30 days

tender scarab
#

Please no.

chilly berry
crimson pond
#

I actually have a module that tracks my playtime. I don't look at the number though, because I don't really want to know 😆 😭

finite trench
#

I'd like a played verb that I can target at another player and see how long that character has been logged on

frozen tusk
#

Has it been fixed so that a level 0 character can activate lumnis donate for free?

vital badge
#

you have to turn in 10 jobs for the clerk before you can.

the bigger problem is, if you twich, you start getting exp, so you might be out of luck.

chilly berry
frozen tusk
chilly berry
#

Actually being level 6 with 1459 points remaining on my quintoupled is a great start to this game. I’m a fan

frozen tusk
#

I really think all new characters should just start with 1 lumnis donate banked.

All enterprising drug dealers know to give away the first hit for free.

chilly berry
vital badge
blazing violet
vital badge
#

still in the inn
as for the NPE, I think it just starts as a quest doesn't it?

frozen tusk
#

The raging thrak is so obsolete.

Time for him to die.

vital badge
lucid latch
#

Oh good, so someone was able to start a new character and pay the lumnis donation before it actived? I was wondering if that would work.

blazing violet
#

I just wouldn't want anyone to rush past level 20 without having had time to really figure out how they want to play the character and make use of the free fixskills and multiple fixstats.

sleek meadow
frozen tusk
#

Man, once again I'd love it for there to be some type of newgame+ option.

So much of this game is about nostalgia.

Realistically, I would never create a NEW character at this point.

I've capped an empath, 2 wizards, 2 sorcerers, 2 clerics, 1 bard, 1 paladin, have a monk at 97.

vital badge
blazing violet
frozen tusk
#

Heck ya know what, how bout this.

Anyone that is loot capped and earning 1% can adjust their level down to hunt anywhere in the game for the remainder of the month.

All your gear would still have its standard restrictions so if you drop down to level 1 you might not like it but exp would be easy.

You'd miss out on gemstones and other things that require you to be capped because you chose to curse yourself for a month.

royal epoch
hazy osprey
#

Is there a write up of gem tiers somewhere? I’ve seen like 2 gems since the changes.

royal epoch
#

And maybe my OCD.

royal epoch
fading flare
royal epoch
#

I assume you'd done a lot of looting this month before the release, @hazy osprey?

fiery cove
# finite trench yeah the box change has nothing to do with MA groups. if it were bad for MAing p...

It seems to me like a more equitable solution here would be to scale the pool fee with the number of boxes you currently have in queue. This would 1) encourage people to tip more and 2) impact people generating the most raw loot. I recognize that MA still sort of has a way around it by shuffling around which character hands in the box, and multiple parallel pools. But presumably the issue is also just one of raw quantity. (and let's be honest, probably a plurality if not majority of MA players pick their own)

hazy osprey
chilly berry
hazy osprey
rugged jackal
#

Making junk rare has really put a damper on my junk bomb. I wasn't having issues still finding junk right after the change but something must have updated as i havent found junk in a hot minute.

ashen carbon
simple forge
#

Have they explained how loot cap will be calculated w/r/t DR treasure? If I find temp-padded plate am I done for the month? Or will it just be 25k?

dry sedge
#

You carefully inspect a vaalorn-edged drakar-tipped whip-blade. It's estimated to be worth 10.5 million, but I'll offer 25k.

Woot, first time hitting loot cap. 😁

slate edge
# 
**Pick Up Heavier Stuff!**

Characters can now pick up items that weigh more than their bodyweight. They are still limited to their max carrying capacity.

#development-announcements message
With the changes to treasure boxes, halflings are having quite the time with overloaded boxes. Can the above update get updated to also apply to our disks? That way we don't have to figure out how to handle situations like:

>get chest from <CHARACTER> disk
You are unable to handle the additional load a blackened mithril chest would add.

In that situation, it was a roughly ~143lb box for a halfling that weighs ~134lbs.

tender condor
#

i think it's the same check isn't it? could you pick it up if you dismissed the disk and it dropped to the ground?

or are you carrying more now than when you put the box in the disk? you're still subject to your max carrying capacity that may be more than your body weight

vital badge
#

can you flip the disk and grab it from the ground?

Not that that is a solution to the problem as stated.

slate edge
digital turtle
#

why make loot that characters can't pick up? crazy stuff maaaannn.

slate edge
#

110 STR, 100 CON
Halfling weight of 145 lbs, unencumbered carry capacity of 65.97 lbs. Total carry capacity of 130.97 lbs.
If I did my math right.

#

I didn't account for PF training though, yeah, my math is off a bit for other stuff too

split hamlet
slate edge
#

halfing with 110STR/100CON weighs 136 lbs (max for halfling), base carry capacity of 61.88 + 30lbs (rank 15 porter) + 20lbs (201 bonus PF) = 111.88lbs before encumbered. Another 61.88 to be maxed overloaded at 173.76 lbs.... did I do the math right?

#

would have left about 30lbs give or take depending on true weight of chest. Without taking into account gear/silver/other loot found while hunting. Seems a bit harsh for smaller races to have to deal with considering the huge bump in box weight increases. Free FIXRACE??? 👀

potent orchid
chilly berry
#

Generic exp feedback:

  1. Field Exp: 2,680/2,240 This is really fun to see.

  2. Exp per pulse is less at a table than at a node. Which due to resource I think may be making town centers more ghost town-y than usual (could be survivorship bias. I split my time between River's Rest and Zul). Alternatively it fills town centers with people who actually want to interact rather than sit around. Not sure if this is a benefit or not yet. I do know there's a lot of accidental interaction when finishing resting. But I do think that gathering in the town center should be incentivized. Not sure the solution here or if its even really a problem. I do think it might be time for @tender scarab's long standing suggestion of whole town nodes. (for the record, this may not be anything that needs addressing. There's always been nuance with where you chose to rest. And the "advantage" here isn't necessarily and advantage or not. Just an observation)

Edit to add 3) Something about halflings being smol.

frozen tusk
#

Maybe its time to just do away with all racial negatives and bonuses.

split hamlet
#

Dwarves will always be fat and hairy, with no knees! You can decide if that's a negative or a bonus.

digital turtle
rugged jackal
frozen tusk
rugged jackal
#

let me put the cubes, or heavy quartz orbs, or small statues... idk.

For real? Anyone got an ingot? ill give it a go.

mellow gyro
#

Race potions. Tons of other games offer it

slate edge
tender condor
#

Unrelated to anything i know we settled on Cash'lo'nae for tutelage i dunno if we settled on a pejorative for new lumnis i suggest Grift of Lumnis

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

gusty crow
#

Chrisms Note: I have just purified several chrism-worthy gems from the Sanctum. Yes, brand new, fresh ones.

It seems that Song of Purification bails and hits a limit without purifying them into orbs when ... really, it should have made it an orb.

At least, under the old circumstances, the gem would many songs ago have become an orb.

I'm asking if someone could double check to see if the cart is getting head of the horse for this.

Thank you.

split hamlet
fading flare
# gusty crow Chrisms Note: I have just purified several chrism-worthy gems from the Sanctum. ...

I noticed this before the most recent changes. It would continue purifying and then just stop working. It used to be you would get a message that it could not be purified any further. I also noticed the same thing that it seemed orbs were very frequent. In my testing, I only made one, although it was with limited numbers. I feel like I would’ve made three or four in the same timeframe before.

gusty crow
simple forge
amber osprey
vital badge
#

don't forget to click on the bell and like the comment

ashen carbon
#

I was able to get 2 boxes in my disk in reim today

tender scarab
#

I’m still able to turn gems into orbs here.

gusty crow
#

One gem Orbbed - but these are 7,000 silver value gems I have here. It should have been more than 1 orb.

#

Make that 2 orbs! One just happened to a diamond, at only 4,500 silvers. 🙁

dry sedge
dusky kernel
#

"You carefully examine the mahogany trunk and determine that the weight is about 302 pounds." Do I win?

#

You can't be sure, but you think the gold ingot might be worth between 75548 and 80966 silver if sold at a gem shop.

wispy forum
#

gross

main field
dusky kernel
#

indeed thats what it was

wispy forum
#

was it the most fun box experience you've ever had?

split hamlet
#

Probably not, he didn't have to beg for a field picker.

finite trench
#

Okay you got through the whole realization process while I was typing it out good job

split hamlet
#

I still hate the way it reads.

During the first phase experience points are tripled until 21,900 bonus experience is gained

Because you're not gaining 21900 bonus points, you're gaining 14600 bonus points plus the base 7300.

Tell me I'm right Tikba so I can fix this wiki page.

finite trench
#

Yeah that line you are quoting is actually just incorrect, it’s only 14.6k bonus (for the triple xp phase). Somebody should fix that!

south trail
dusky kernel
south trail
#

speaking of experience... did I understand that 3mo exp boost you can buy for USD correctly? you have to use your lumnis boost first THEN it kicks in? meaning you have to earn (assuming you're also using lumnis donate), 29.2K experience before your purchased boost kicks in?

image.png
split hamlet
#

TMK yes. And the boosted lumnis lasts a LONG time.

split hamlet
# 
Experience pulses occur every 46–76 seconds (average 60 seconds).

A) On-node (713 pulses total)
Average: 713 × 60s = 11:53:00
Fast end (46s): 9:06:38
Slow end (76s): 15:03:08

B) In-town off-node (769 pulses total)
Average: 769 × 60s = 12:49:00
Fast end (46s): 9:49:34
Slow end (76s): 16:14:04
hoary prawn
# south trail no, don't make it expensive! This is a flat tax that hurts the poor FAR more th...

They’re trying to solve a problem that is just as intractable in game as it is in the real world - too few people own too much of the money. If you tax them too much, they’ll go elsewhere unless you sweeten the pot with the other hand. Every solution that’s been tried hurts only the people at the bottom, because the people at the top can afford to lose far more before it touches their lifestyle.

tribal relic
# 
You note some treasure of interest and just manage to get a lacquered wooden trunk and a scarred hickory chest into your hands before realizing you have no room to stow either.

You drop a lacquered wooden trunk.
>

You drop a scarred hickory chest.```


(Items: 214)

Not even half of my inventory is full and i cant literally pick up 2 boxes and store them anywhere

Again something needs to be done about these boxes!
dusky kernel
#

item count doesnt show us the containers

split hamlet
#

I think most have adjusted to the changes but the box weights are going to be a constant headache and complaint for the rest of time.

There's simply no reason for them to be so heavy.

rugged jackal
split hamlet
#

Maybe they're not all armor sized.

tribal relic
# dusky kernel item count doesnt show us the containers 
Weapons [7]: a drake dagger, a gleaming hoarbeam runestaff, a maroon orase runestaff, a drake falchion, a feras mace, an ora-edged rhimar main gauche, a mithglin military pick
Containers [1]: a kelyn-clasped keyring
Gems [23]: an uncut diamond (14), an uncut emerald (9)
Herbs [1]: some ephlox moss
Clothing [1]: a deep blue moreen blanket in a fanciful moon and stars pattern
Special [4]: a sheet of fine-grained paper, a cosmos-burnished ebony dauber, a monogrammed ledger, a stubby-tailed mottled goat toy```

Literally 37 items in this container at the time, so shouldnt have been a problem for an epic deep cloak
tropic creek
chilly tulip
#

The box weight thing is a straight up debuff to the small races. I'm probably going to fixrace my halfling monk. My gnome alts can stay gnomes because they're alts.

rugged jackal
#

slowmode killed my vibe on that post...

content.png
tribal relic
#

I shouldnt have to call lightning or blow up a box just to move them from literally 1 room away, sorry but that is just dump

split hamlet
#

It completely changes the pace of combat that we've been accustomed to for the last 20 years.

It's now back and forth and back and forth because its not a gradual increase in weight but immediate.

rugged jackal
#

What if simu adds an item to there shop where you can hire a porter to follow you around and carry your boxes? P2W!

chilly tulip
#

The box weight thing invalidates SG as a hunting area for me. That much swimming is a non-starter. If you don't own a 5-setting ring, good luck.

split hamlet
#

What if the post timer were 15 minutes so people wouldnt waste their post with suggestions like just pay more money.

Move the silvers out of the boxes and have the creatures drop them gradually as you hunt, as an alternative.

rugged jackal
#

My post was sarcastic and a jab at the current P2W model that is going on. Thankfully you are always straight to the point with your posts to keep us in line.

Good point on Sailors Grief, Nidal. That would be a nightmare

chilly tulip
#

In HW/ME/Hive you can hit a quick go2 pool, dump box, resume hunting. SG? Lol, your hunt is over and you have to get back to where you were again after dropping the box off. Going from 0 encumbrance to "oh my hunt's over now" encumbrance is not it.

dusky kernel
strong lake
#

Yeah what if I paid more money. Like... another Plat perk could be a higher loot cap.

#

Because of the implication. It is in the name.

tribal relic
tribal relic
strong lake
#

I don't disagree.

boreal trench
potent orchid
dusky kernel
#

people need to stop thinking of optional benefits for as penalties to themselves

slate rock
# tribal relic same with OSAing cant exactly in the middle of the ocean go I think ill drop thi...

Few things of note here… do not stay out and hunt at sea. Come back in after every encounter, I do not know why everyone does this it’s highly inefficient. It takes maybe and extra two minutes tops to go in dump loot and go back out. Plus if you aren’t leaving you boxes on the ground you are doing it wrong. Don’t pick up boxes, leave them and when the encounter is over bring them all to the main deck and toss them over the gang plank onto your main deck via: DRAG command. It will save time and energy as well as inventory space. Not to mention carrying boxes will make your RT suffer and no one wants to be 11 pirates deep with 10+ RT.

tribal relic
rough vault
#

Why aren't the critters enjoying high encumbrance from schlepping around 300 lb boxes too?

tribal relic
vital badge
#

the real answer is because they aren't carrying anything than what you can see them use until the search function is called would be my guess.

It would be amusing if there were randomized encumbered mobs, similar to the boss mobs that would spawn with a greater chance to drop something heavy

brazen salmon
#

Now I'm just picturing creatures running around carrying 80lb boxes in sacks and swinging them at people.

slate rock
#

I have a proposal for a solution but no one is gonna like it. In keeping with a realistic theme. (I know GS is far beyond realistic) instead of finding big heavy boxes which is just not practical for the mob or the player… we find a myriad of things… a small coffer instead with maybe one gem or a handful of coins in it (also in the past I’ve said we need new coin mints ie: higher denominations like gold platinum silver and copper coins) or perhaps the player finds a small crude key, or a rough drawn map. When a player finds the map they can use it to locate a small encampment. Within the encampment might be guards or it might be empty. A small tent will be present with a chest or a wagon. In those could be bigger boxes or straight treasure, like small versions of grimswarm supply tent/camps. the key you find could unlock the chest of the cargo hold of the wagon… it’s like another variation of the lock and key system but for treasure generation. This will not only add a fun element to the game it can help aid in silver generation from simply farming a hunting ground and looting gems and boxes all day long like we all know people do.

rough vault
#

Actually that amusing concept provides an opportunity to rework treasure in a new way. What if you looted a corpse and could only find gems and a few coins and clothing and potions and wands from containers...but instead of automatically finding a box, you would occasionally find a map to the horde. You'd then have to dig or search the lair or midden or buried loot to get the chest...and it would be vast and heavy, but you could plan for it.

rugged jackal
vital badge
slate rock
#

Tarakan gets me…

slate edge
slate rock
split hamlet
#

No thanks. Why should treasure be even more tedious than it has recently become.

vital badge
slate rock
#

We have a game that was built in the 80’s and it’s 2026… I feel it can be done. We have the power we have the technology we can rebuild it!

brazen salmon
#

Here's the unpopular thing, I've always kind of found GS puzzles to be ... exhausting (for lack of a better term) and having to go track down loot based on vague, dynamically generated clues... doesn't fill me with glee.

split hamlet
vital badge
rough vault
#

Need a new 1700 spell that teleports your box from the field to your safe spot in town.

vital badge
#

mystic vault? we have that already

crimson pond
#

I'd be fine with treasure hunt quests to find a big ol' chest of goodies as an addition to normal loot, but definitely not a replacement for

tribal relic
sleek meadow
#

Or make it so when you kill a critter it creates a chance an item is in the room that can be found by the search feature. Rather than insa. Right now it’s like a silly waterfall of stuff that scripts just pop on your pocket and backpack. Make searching a thing

dusky kernel
#

I still suggest the way to make loot "interesting" and lighter is give a chance for a klock reward to drop outright, even if its a lesser-than-vibrant version. Have this replace 25k silvers in a box

slate rock
#

I like my proposal for treasure hunts.. in place of big cumbersome boxes, of course normal loot generation would otherwise be unaffected

tribal relic
#

or you know, just go back to the way boxes were. I dont need ingots and fancy worded boxes that i cant move or pick up. treasure isnt really more interesting anyway, its just heavier

brazen salmon
#

Well, ridiculously heavy, hunt-ending boxes doesn't feel much fun at all.

Of course... I wouldn't know for another 8 days... maybe.

sleek meadow
#

Or a lot more things drop and a lot less boxes of things drop which would be more fantasy realistic anyway

slate rock
#

There’s no reason not to find a glitter sequined black velvet dress on that hill troll but frankly a map to its lair or key to its horde makes more sense than a 300lbs box that would be aching its joints to lug around

dusky kernel
chilly tulip
#

Huge boxes are a small race debuff and the small races are already pretty unappealing post PSM3. I hate the big fat box design. I'd really prefer that aspect be rolled back.

tribal relic
#

another thing i dont notice is the increase rate at which keys/locks drop it seems the same to me

frozen tusk
#

I think heavy boxes is the point to cut down on the amount of time grinding in the field.

The only thing stopping most folks is encumbrance. Not mana or stamina.

Without encumbrance everyone is grinding for 30 min to an hour straight.

brazen salmon
#

Ok, wait, hold on. I want to walk back my opinion here.
I am 100% behind Peggy's treasure idea on two conditions.

  1. You can bring frens, like let's say... up to 4 others. (ahue)
  2. There's a boss-type mob you have to kill.. maybe something with wings. Not sold on the wings though, but food for thought.
dusky kernel
#

This is a whole other system youre describing that shouldnt be tied to loot changes (and will just be abused by MA anyway, sadly.. you know it's true)

slate rock
#

Show of hands.. who wants side quests to lairs and encampments in place of huge boxes? Let’s make this happen! Also I totally volunteer to aid the GM’s with ideas

chilly tulip
tribal relic
crimson pond
#

Astral vault stonks way up.

split hamlet
#

Hunting areas with tables stocks way up

slate rock
#

I feel like it could restore some fun to the game and remove a little of the grind and slash monotony. Make it feel a little more like an RPG again..

frozen tusk
# crimson pond Astral vault stonks way up.

Lol no.

Astral Vault allows the caster to open an extradimensional pocket to the astral plane to store items. Base storage is up to 50 lbs with +1 lb per 2 ranks of Mental Lore - Transference

You can't put a single box in astral vault.

sleek meadow
#

Almost everyone seems focused entirely on mechanics and the x number of coins and encumbrance. But few talking about what makes the game more immersive except Peggy atm. How about extending longevity of the game by improved story/activity immersive mechanics rather than just throw out more or less coins? I’d like to see some more immersive design solutions to my hunting interactions not just see loot speed modifications

crimson pond
chilly tulip
#

I have a halfling monk and a burghal wiz and sorc. I'd fix the monk to human and the pures to dwarf and for sure never roll a small race again at this point. There's no point.

brazen salmon
#

There's an entire thread about expanding experience in more immersive ways.

split hamlet
#

I'm not wasting anymore time on this because its not going to happen.

Theres actually a chance box weights will be realized as a mistake

frozen tusk
#

Box weights aren't a mistake. It's definitely intentional and the bone was already thrown with the introduction of ingots at half weight and letting small races pick up heavy stuff.

tribal relic
#

i dont think it was a mistake, i just think it wasnt entirely thought through as a negative at the time of push out regarding smaller races

split hamlet
tribal relic
#

they walked back bec there was an uproar not that it was a mistake

brazen salmon
#

A single box being so heavy it prematurely ends a hunt should not be a common occurrence.

frozen tusk
#

What was walked back other than resource gain which was never even talked about?

Nothing else has been walked back at all. They've fixed some systems and adjusted some gem values because of systems.

The overall goal was to slow loot generation and ENDING your hunt definitely slows loot generation.

split hamlet
brazen salmon
#

I can't imagine creating more frustration for the player base by increasing the number of hunt-ending boxes was their intended outcome.

crimson pond
#

I'm curious on the actual stats. Lots of annecdotes of singular hunt-ruiningly big boxes being annoying, but my understanding of the math still suggests that the net average encumbrance per hunt should be comparable due to the proportionate decreased drop rate.

Assumption: 12 minute hunt

  1. Old model: 1 box per 2 minutes = 6 boxes
  2. New model: 1 box per 6 minutes = 2 boxes of approximately 3x value (not necessarily weight) =~ 4-6 old boxes

Obviously not actual numbers

tribal relic
sleek meadow
dusky kernel
crimson pond
#

So either the rates aren't averaging out, or people are disproportionally remembering the worst case scenarios of nuboxes rather than assessing averages across multiple hunts with the classic negativity bias that gamers love so much.

vital badge
brazen salmon
#

Given the general outcry from the smaller races and people dying due to box weight, it's definitely a more common occurrence than it was prior to the changes.

chilly tulip
#

Encumbrance developing gradually over the course of a hunt is not the same as "no encumbrance, no encumbrance, no encumbrance, box can't move hunt over"

tribal relic
vital badge
frozen tusk
#

In a game with such a heavy RP emphasis I'd prefer folks be able to choose the race they want and not have mechanics be such a huge consideration.

That being said, halflings have some pretty huge advantages especially when it comes to TD.

If you want some help with encumbrance the small races need to give up some of the perks around SMR and TD as well.

image.png
chilly tulip
#

At which point there really won't be any reason to be a halfling at all, lol. I feel like either all races have all bonuses/negatives zero'd out, or we leave things as they are. But big boxes outright target the small races.

fading flare
crimson pond
#

Almost all of my gnomes have +20 ASC strength, and run 509 full time. But encumbrance has always been a problem for small races so this doesn't feel like a new problem to me. And I do understand that the spikey nature of it does change the response required, but I also haven't found more than 5 boxes this week that have spiked any of my squad so dramatically that I had to end the hunt.

frozen tusk
#

Big boxes don't target small races. Everything sold for cash to help small races compensate for their terrible encumbrance targets small races.

feather charms
silvery blue potions
weight reduction
etc

This stuff came about because of the small races.

split hamlet
#

This thread always takes some wild hot take turns. Lol

chilly tulip
#

I wish I wasn't too bad at math to determine if my monk would have any RTs go up if I switched to human. Legit only reason I haven't done it yet.

rough vault
#

Maybe we could hire ogre porters to haul loot

vital badge
#

perhaps it becomes a thing where we no longer generate loot inside the box when it spawns, and instead assign a weight and a wealth value to it. It then becomes one item with a tangible weight, but only takes up one inventory slot in a container like a disk/vault. Only when it's unlocked and opened does it spawn loot.

crimson pond
#

That said, I have also acknowledged a few times elsewhere in the thread that the disparity in the encumbrance system as a whole, irrespective of the box change, is a bit too dramatic in favor of strong races. All of the encumbrance modifiers help the already strong races proportionally more than small ones, which is dumb. Like, a gnome with +40 STR shouldn't still be worse off than a giant with +0

tribal relic
#

or as i said go back to old boxes and just put less treasure in them to be sold anyway, afterall that was the entire point of this to generate less sellable items for silver

edgy hollow
#

anyone else having an issue with skinning bounties not getting credit? ~20 rift crawler teeth sold and 1/6 credit with only fine quality needed. this is skinning on a ranger.

frozen tusk
#

Oh know, heavy box.

130 or symbol of return or 1020 or gold ring.

There's a ton of escape spells that don't require you to run through a zone.

Even SOS has the periapt.

Everyone is using ;go2 and then ;eloot sell anyways.

I'm just not buying the heavy boxes are breaking my gameplay arguement.

chilly tulip
#

I think this makes SG even less appealing to hunt than it already was. In any other zone you can just do a quick go2, eloot sell, resume hunting. It's annoying, but doable. But SG is cooked.

fading flare
#

With all of this said, I don’t think it should be complicated to reduce the amount of silver in a box and to increase the value of the gems or other items.

This is also pending the changes to more interesting loot that we’re waiting for.

Or add platinum ingots and really adjust the weight so that they’re more appropriate, like 1 pound to 10-100k

sleek meadow
tribal relic
fading flare
#

Or do the even simpler thing and adjust gold weight from 50% of silver to 5%. It’s not like the value of gold is based on the current weight.

We already have gemstones and jewelry that cost far more and there is no RP or physical reason for it

frozen tusk
# fading flare With all of this said, I don’t think it should be complicated to reduce the amou...

Its definitely not complicated, the question is does dev want to do that or is more silver intentional because it does impact encumbrance so quickly.

I think you'd be better off asking for 314 to have its duration increased to be stackable and players need to make a choice in spell sever or burst areas to use 314 instead of another spell.

Make 314 stackable so there's an in game choice that players can utilize outside of paid options.

As it is you can get a cleric to imbed 314 in a gem with 325.

split hamlet
#

Lol

chilly tulip
#

I love when games become more tedious

slate rock
#

I think we are getting away from the point of the new system. We are offering tons of ideas to make farming boxes easy again. When the idea was to discourage farming in general.

fading flare
#

Gold was a good start, but the only reason I can see right now for the fact that the gold ingots weigh so much is arbitrary, not based on silver to gold value (real gold is 50 times silver at the moment, not 2), real physics, or RP, and we all know exactly how obnoxious these boxes are.

main field
#

You could just not pick up boxes if it’s that tedious and the rewards aren’t worth it. Loot cap will always be there for you.

bright pasture
#

i thought it would make more sense if it was gold ore and not gold ingots

split hamlet
slate rock
#

reduced box drops by 2/3s and increase in difficulty of inventory management… was intentional. They want us to have more fun and be more engaged, not to have us farm silvers day in and day out. I think the constant statements from Wyrom about the over abundance of silvers in the economy kinda spoke for itself there Alastir.

frozen tusk
chilly tulip
#

All this so the same people who already buy everything at the auctions can continue to do so

fading flare
tribal relic
#

most of us arent trying to farm, well the group of friends i run with. we are here to enjoy the game knowing we will never, with or without these changes, be billionaires. I think we are right on topic of trying to make the box system easier for some and more balanced across the races

fading flare
#

This is absolutely a matter of the player experience. It makes hunting and gathering treasure annoying, which is a core part of the game, and it’s highly imbalanced across races.

slate edge
#

Dumb question, but if you LOOT a creature and it drops a box. But you never get it opened (leave it behind in the field), that box still counts against the original character/account that LOOT'd the creature. Not the person that opens it? Correct?

frozen tusk
#

Prior to this change encumbrance was easily mitigated for the small races if you were willing to buy a potion from the shop but encumbrance should be the biggest penalty for a small race.

Being able to ignore your biggest penalty buy spending cash probably wasn't intended for game balance.

slate rock
#

I mean one could easily argue that… not all races are created equal. This isn’t the real world where we are all humans.

chilly berry
#

I actually like it that boxes are worth my time now. Now their relative value makes going through the leg work of finding a picker, tipping them well enough that they get more than the pool and I get my boxes opened, stashing boxes until I have enough that finding a picker makes sense.

I actually don’t mind this.

I would stop hunting with the same amount of loot anyway. There’s just more swingy variance to when I get encumbered. But it’s not really different from finding a box on your first 4 critters. Which has happened to all of us.

I don’t think the box thing needs changing at this time.

fading flare
slate rock
#

Elanthia is not a fair or forgiving world… and it’s def not equal. Seriously having to manage your inequalities in GS is part of what makes it fun. It encourages social interaction in the very least. Hey I need a giant man who can help me move this 140lbs box please I’ll share all proceeds 50/50 of course.

rough vault
#

Another possible solution would be a treasure switch controlled by new Loot Tzar GM. Players would only be able to find boxes when the switch was on...and that could be random hours on random days with various multipliers to control it.

tribal relic
fading flare
#

You can’t get rid of boxes or even reduce them that much. They’ve already been reduced by 1/3. It would destroy the entire lockpicking and rogue guild system.

slate rock
#

By pampering the players for selecting a race with known strength and size issues you defeat the purpose of the diversity it creates. The looting system let alone any system in a fantasy world rpg isn’t meant to be fair across the board. Treasure included. If you cannot pick up the box because you are 3 feet tall and have the strength of an elderly chihuahua… adapt and overcome. Don’t cry to the GM’s because it’s not fair… your +30 Dex bonus isn’t fair either halfling but that’s on you to work the checks and balances

tribal relic
#

yea i think i need to put myself elsewhere for now...pampering really?

fading flare
brazen salmon
#

Pretty sure Lock Mastery was completable prior to the locksmith pool, and even prior to guild rep turn ins. Saying that further reduction of boxes might make progressing in the guild slower or harder makes sense... but destroying? I don't agree.

slate rock
fading flare
thorny roost
main field
#

Make everyone have human bonus and stats and equal box carrying !!

Equalize everything! Tax the rich! Collect everyone silver and split it evenly across the board !!

bright pasture
#

i found that with my halfling and large containers, i could carry a lot of boxes - i was just encumbered all the time. with resists, crit padding, etc., it really didn't matter. i'm not sure these 300 pound boxes will inconvenience me more as a giant than they would as a halfling - with the body weight restriction removed

chilly berry
fading flare
slate rock
#

Well ok then… maybe you’re right they should just make everyone human. Because clearly we live in an all races are equal fantasy world where halflings can pull wagons with thier immense oxen strength and giantmen hide in shadows with ease and and pick the pockets of noblemen surrounded by a vanguard like taking candy from a baby.

chilly tulip
#

Maybe Porter needs to be buffed. 2lbs per rank is not worthwhile at this point with the weight of boxes.

frozen tusk
#

If they throw the smaller races a further bone for encumbrance I would expect a trade off and probably something else you won't like.

Encumbrance is meant to be the biggest penalty for a small race. A new player wouldn't understand this but any veteran GS player would unless you've been chugging encumbrance potions and rubbing feather charms for years.

bright pasture
#

i dropped porter as a halfling b/c it really didn't matter for the cost. it just meant being unencumbered for one box later

the biggest impact on my halfling were max health and health recovery enhancives

fading flare
# chilly tulip Maybe Porter needs to be buffed. 2lbs per rank is not worthwhile at this point w...

It’s also only Ascension. You can’t get that without a significant investment and you have to ignore a lot of other things that are more mechanically advantageous.

The idea of basing these box weights on RP or realism in any way is really pretty limited to begin with.

We don’t walk around finding random bandits and monsters that have 100-300 pound chests stuck in their pockets. What we 'should' find are small and expensive pieces of jewelry that actually pay out 30-100k or more.

Otherwise, you could try that ad hoc quest idea where you go raid a Bandit Vault and get 250,000 silvers and gold ingots. I mean, that would be fun and take some planning, a charm, a couple of people...

crimson pond
chilly tulip
# frozen tusk If they throw the smaller races a further bone for encumbrance I would expect a ...

I think the issue is that after PSM3, the benefits of small races got diminished. Everyone gets hit with open rolls. The SMR bonus is whatever. Fom a personal perspective, I don't care about the TD bonus, I'm KS, my TD may as well be 3, lol. Let alone the huge penalty all my CMans get hit with for being smol. I think small races suck. I should just chug a fixrace at this point and drop it.

bright pasture
# crimson pond Max capacity is still an issue, my forest gnome still could not hold a ~275lb bo...

yes, although i would try to field pick that as a halfling or giant. in HW/ME, total non-issue as I could just drag it through a gate. for SoS or other location restricted areas, definitely asymmetric as the giant can pick it up and the halfling has to abandon it.

my point is that at least with endgame armor/resists, and some choice enhancives, the difference between halfling and giant wizard was almost totally irrelevant

sleek meadow
chilly tulip
#

There's probably a reason Earthdiver went Giant from Halfling as a billion exp mage. The drawbacks of being small far outweigh the perks. You can ascension yourself some Dex, you can't ascension out of the racial enc. penalties. More HP ain't bad either. Being able to hit heads with melee... lol small races are trash.

fading flare
#

[OOC] Acerbius: "Thank you, GMs. For this box update where all boxes are, apparently, weight reducing by a factor of ~3." What is this?
Edit: [OOC] Acerbius: "Correction: No, the boxes just loresing wrong."

dusky kernel
#

a cry for attention

radiant phoenix
bright pasture
#

i went giant because i accidentally cast a war spell in town and got arrested and couldn't get my cloak out of a jail box. it was the middle of the night and no one was on duty to help, and i didn't want to deal with having a few hundred million silver worth of enhancives replaced.

that said, going to giant had negligible effect on any game systems, but then meant I was virtually never encumbered. i had planned to go back to halfling but never got around to it and being a giant was a fun change

slate bluff
bright pasture
#

no, seriously - i tell people he was just an adolescent giant and finally grew up

slate bluff
#

You see Earthdiver the Tallest Halfling

thorny roost
fading flare
#

My morning rabble rabbling is done for now, but everyone's points are valid, so hopefully it gets attention. Off to do things

thorny roost
#

Agreed ^ I would like some sort of indication one way or the other because I am definitely making a rogue soon, and I want to know if I should be a giantman or not.

I actually don't dislike anything about Giantman other than the name, I think if they were called Goliath I would prefer it, maybe I'll make a script to fix this for me.

warm agate
#

After trying to catch up on the thread , I’m reading that some of you seem to want to go back to reality gaming of the late 1990’s. It’s a game people , there are magical and nonsensical things .

slate edge
#

If doing my math right, this is a table of carry capacity with 100 STR (expected lvl 100 cap)

image.png
main field
#

Go humans, we stronk

crimson pond
# bright pasture yes, although i would try to field pick that as a halfling or giant. in HW/ME, ...

Yeah, I can't agree with

(...) the difference between halfling and giant wizard was almost totally irrelevant
Because the giant can make all the same choices and end up miles ahead. Most encumbrance modifiers aren't linear, they're all modified positively in favor of large races.

Using the examples from the wiki, modified for identical STR stat

(((100 - 20) / 200) * 90} + {90 / 200}
(.40 * 90) + .45 = 36.95 lbs.

A giantman, with a body weight of 360 lbs. and a strength stat of 100, has an unencumbered carrying capacity of:
(((100 - 20) / 200) * 360) + (360 / 200)
(.40 * 360) + 1.8 = 145.8 lbs.```

If the halfling enhances STR by 40 (a non-trivial effort), they add 18 pounds. A giant with the exact same investment gets an extra 72 pounds.

And then we start looking at armor modifiers:

Halfling (encumbrance factor .50) wearing 37lb full plate (AsG 20). Standard full plate is 75 lbs.

(75 - 37) * .50 = 19 lbs carrying capacity

Giantman (encumbrance factor 1.33) wearing 37lb full plate (AsG 20). Standard full plate is 75 lbs.

(75 - 37) * 1.33 = +50 lbs carrying capacity```

rough vault
#

Remember when there were PvP duels and the genius strat was to give 50000 silvers to your naive warrior foe in mid swing? Maybe we need some sort of new CM accessible to all that allowed heave to temporarily increase ability to lift massive boxes for a minute.

slate bluff
#

I def favor the halfling benefits over encumbrances. Especially for a pure casting wizard. I can hunt overloaded in HW with little trouble.

fading flare
slate edge
slate bluff
thorny roost
#

Because humans are endurance hunters while dwarves are only natural sprinters over short distances.

fading flare
#

Dwarves should have like 3x the muscle strength of a human. And at least 2x the bone density etc.

crimson pond
ashen carbon
slate bluff
#

I just have to disable them with rapidfire before they get me. It does make me get clobbered when open rolled but wizards are secret tanks with enough crit padding.

fading flare
bright pasture
#

crit/damage padding combined with resists and 520 go a long way. toss in some max health/health recovery enhancives and it's a minor nuisance

aka stack everything up at end game

crimson pond
#

Handwaving millions of experience and monetary investment requirements, nbd

slate bluff
rough vault
#

If the heavier box weights were intentional to slow hunting efficiency we should expect skins and pelts to start being much more cumbersome too.

boreal bobcat
#

Get wrecked small races!

slate edge
ashen carbon
#

It's an interesting and horrifying chart that almost makes me want to race change, but would also completely kill every bit of backstory i've made for the character over the years.

slate bluff
#

Porter porter 10/50 Passive, get that back stronger

chilly tulip
#

Oooh 20lbs, lol

dusky kernel
#

yeah it's crazy that it takes 45 minutes minute to drop off a box and get back out hunting.. oh wait it doesnt?

vital badge
slate edge
#

It can be a bit of an annoyance for areas like SOS where if you find a weight ending box after 1-3 kills. You now have to waste periapt charge to go thru the privvy to drop off the box. Most hunting grounds it's nto an issue, but there are some where it does make a difference.

slate bluff
# 
Constitution (CON):   110 (40)    ...  110 (40)
   Dexterity (DEX):   110 (45)    ...  110 (45)
     Agility (AGI):   110 (40)    ...  110 (40)
  Discipline (DIS):   110 (25)    ...  110 (25)
        Aura (AUR):   110 (25)    ...  110 (25)
       Logic (LOG):   110 (35)    ...  110 (35)
   Intuition (INT):   110 (40)    ...  110 (40)
      Wisdom (WIS):   110 (30)    ...  110 (30)
   Influence (INF):    90 (15)    ...   90 (15)```
Look at these beautiful stats of a wizard
vital badge
#

that influence does not spark joy.

crimson pond
#

Zhagen has MK perfect self

bright pasture
#

wow hm all i did with Ascension was 25 aura for 13 spirit

rain reef
#

Keep the changes re: box frequency and value (less boxes, but those boxes are worth more)

Reduce the number of silvers in those boxes

Account for it by increasing gem values just a little bit more

  1. re-balances the encumbrance issues

  2. re-balances the orb/chrism gem issues

Am I missing anything? I don't think these solutions need to be complicated and convoluted and confusing.

crimson pond
#

Meanwhile, strongest* gnome in the lands: Strength (STR): 120 (25) ... 160 (45)
... and still barely caught up to giant baseline STR bonus 😆 😭

* These claims have not been verifed by the FDA

bright pasture
#

the strength potions were significant equalizers for my halfling. but i still get them for my giant anyway b/c why not

giant can currently carry 150 pounds before even being encumbered

slate edge
#

updated to show 100/110/120 STR to show the disparity of scaling factor

image.png
fading flare
bright pasture
chilly tulip
#

God the small races are bad

tribal relic
thorny roost
#

I would absolutely play a Burghal gnome with the racial modifiers of a Giantman.

bright pasture
slate edge
thorny roost
#

How much does something like that cost? I am absolutely doing this btw.

fading flare
#

you can get 1212 scrolls, so not that much

bright pasture
slate edge
#

If you aren't a monk.... fixrace potion from simucoin store is about $130 roughly, the SKE is rank 7 at Duskruin HESS at 300k Bloodscrip.

This spell has a mechanical benefit of modifying trade modifiers based on the perceived race of the player.

So you would get trading rates of a gnome, otherwise everything else a Giantman after fixrace

bright pasture
#

you also get racial verbs...sort of. didn't quite seem to be working when i looked last week

jagged quail
#

depends on the verb. dwarven grunts work, dark elf steeples. some don't.
depending on how long you need to run 1212 daily, a spellbook is a good choice as well

thorny roost
#

Well that's sorted Giantman monk who picks their boxes with 125, best of all worlds.

digital turtle
edgy hollow
chilly berry
# slate edge updated to show 100/110/120 STR to show the disparity of scaling factor

This chart is illuminating. And if we take an analogue to real world physics and look at small humans/animals vs. big humans/animals, we can maybe find a fair boost for smaller races.

Real-world strength scaling isn’t linear with bodyweight. If you assume geometric similarity, muscle force ~ cross-sectional area (~ L²) while body mass ~ L³, so max strength scales as mass^(2/3) and relative strength scales as mass^(-1/3).

If a 360-lb human has a “max carry” of 403 lb, then a 120-lb human (which is 1/3 the body mass) would scale like this:

Scaled carry = 403 × (120 / 360)^(2/3)
Scaled carry = 403 × (1/3)^(2/3)
(1/3)^(2/3) ≈ 0.48
So: Scaled carry ≈ 403 × 0.48 ≈ 194 lb

Now compare carry relative to bodyweight:

360-lb human: 403 / 360 ≈ 1.12× BW

120-lb human: 194 / 120 ≈ 1.62× BW

(Edit: current Gnome bump according to this chart is 1.34x. #feelsLowBruv)

Source for dimensional scaling: https://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/304/scaling.pdf

Also, yes, being big and strong should feel like a cheat code. In real life I'm basically a giantman. Its broken. My wife isn't quite a burghal gnome, but our strength difference is... appalling sometimes. The other side of this plight is that relative to my body mass (in terms of multiple of body weight) much smaller guys/gals can get to relative multipliers much faster and easier in the gym. (#fitnessNerdsAndStrongerByScience)

digital turtle
#

what about ants? so small.. yet, so strong!

boreal bobcat
#

I've never seen an ant that could lift my foot.

vital badge
#

ants have logarithmic scaling due to size and exoskeleton cross-sectional durability. If we had our bones on the outside and cantilevered muscle joints, we could lift buildings too... (not really)

chilly berry
#

I cleaned up the math part to make it more clear

digital turtle
#

but seriously, either change the boxes back to normal, or adjust encumbrance in a significant way that doesnt smash smaller races.. where in all these changes is loot getting more interesting?

prisma valley
#

lol @smash smaller races....like bugs!

bright pasture
sleek meadow
#

really from a what helps people want to keep playing the game and won't break 10 other essential mechanics...do we need to be this restrictive on weight/encumberance on racial lines at all? I know a lot of big name MMOs have gone away from coin encumberance for a variety of reasons...or gone to full weight reducing bags as a source of widespread convenience and also income generation. Seems like both or either of these things would be more...longevity based than the current overly elaborate and frustrating racial distinction when it comes to just picking up a box.

vital badge
chilly berry
boreal bobcat
#

I for one would be disappointed that my choice to not be a little race due to encumbrance is trivialized and demand a free race change if they make little people not weak!
Cap box weight and call it a day!

digital turtle
#

anyone here ever try carrying a backpack that weighs more than you do? Then, go on a hike across a mountain, encounter a swarm of trolls, and fight!... good luck

fast cipher
bright pasture
#

need that hip belt

vital badge
chilly tulip
#

With open rolls the SMR benefits are pretty negligible. The payoff isn't there for being small post loot changes, and arguably pre loot changes. I'm going to see how things go for my halfling monk in Feb when cap resets but I expect I'm going to chug a fixrace on him and go Human. Don't see a reason not to anymore

devout bobcat
#

Question - by my calculations I've farmed over 10m this month but I'm not seeing a loot reduction. I thought 10m was the soft cap?

boreal bobcat
#

Do you have trading?

 91 Trading Skill Ranks - (25 + 191) / 12 = 18 Skill Boost Bonus
103 Trading Skill Ranks - (25 + 203) / 12 = 19 Skill Boost Bonus

with a 25 influence and if youre human in solhaven that's +23-24%

So I would expect to see a slow down closer to 12.5m

chilly berry
sleek meadow
#

should trading ranks increase your loot cap? if so it would be intersting to see how many people suddenly invested in those TP

boreal bobcat
#

Trading has always been above lootcap. Hopefully it still is.

slate edge
#

Yes it does as loot cap is based on base values before trading, unless changed

devout bobcat
#

That explains it. With 1x trading when should I expect to see the loot cliff?

fast cipher
#

hard to tell becase it wouldn't apply to silvers found just stuff sold

chilly berry
#

;tradingranks will tell you your trading bonus level breakpoints.

sleek meadow
# slate edge Yes it does as loot cap is based on base values before trading, unless changed

curious what the ROI is on that...how large an impact it has. I've never had the kind of spare TP to toss into that skill really. and do those who do get enough back out of it to really matter? Honest question. I mean for some I suppose if Trading was linear...and impacted loot cap like 100 trading ranks = 10m loot cap increase...then the price would be too low..but I can also see a lot of capped people chasing it even if it became more TP expensive

vital badge
#

it's one of those, "If it's the only way to increase your returns in an area" and you care about it, it's worth it regardless.

slate edge
#

Yes, if you care about silvers you're throwing away free ones without it. I did it post-cap.

boreal bobcat
#

It doesn't take a lot to get started. 10 ranks could get you 3% before your influence bonus. 40 ranks is like 10%.

chilly berry
# sleek meadow curious what the ROI is on that...how large an impact it has. I've never had th...

At level 52 my wizard has an additional 12% bonus from trading.

If you're doing a lot of skinning and stuff it is better. As Tijay said it doesn't apply to silver. Only to sold stuff.

So it probably works out to an extra 8% (spitballing) in a month. In the new system, 800k or so if I hit cap.

But I'm at 600k since the change-over on that charcter. so about 48k extra in a few days just from finding some points.

boreal bobcat
#

This is another reason they like giving silver rather than gems 😁 And I have to believe the people asking for more gems and less silver know this.

bright pasture
#

you can also use enhancives with trading+inf. just remember that there is a ceiling that you hit that is less than the maxed enhancive trading+inf

remote egret
#

Hmm - what is the general consenus on hoarding uncut diamonds/emeralds....I used to bottle those up and purify them 10 bottles at a time (or use for all the diamond/emerald bounties). But...now I'm not sure if that is worthwhile? And I haven't gotten a diamond/emerald bounty since the first changes. Or are they even useful for making chrisms again?

finite trench
#

There is a script you can run to tell you how many trading ranks you need to get another percentage of bonus. The first few percents are extremely low investment. I think it is called ;tradingranks actually which is kind of an amazing coincidence.

boreal bobcat
#

Hoarding is so last year

bright pasture
#

it's just 1% per combined 12 of trading skill+inf bonus - and truncates

digital turtle
wispy forum
vital badge
#

are you the size of an ant?

9k.png
dusky kernel
sleek meadow
#

Cheap ain't free...so is pickpocking but my rogue hasn't trained in that yet either

rough vault
#

There should be an option for capped looters to donate to Mularos up to 5m to continue looting for the month up to the donated amount. This would allow them access to gems and skins they might want for other reasons.

vital badge
#
  • Mularos seems pleased with your donation. Mularos also seems pleased with the awareness of a tasty snack. A looming presence draws near. Suddenly a gaping maw filled with thousands of teeth appears and surrounds you before you can react. CHOMP

After a seemingly endless period of agony, your torment finally ends.

It seems you have died friend.

ashen carbon
# digital turtle anyone here ever try carrying a backpack that weighs more than you do? Then, go ...

Yes, actually. I was once seconded to a Marine Infantry company that handled emergency embassy evacuations. At the time I was in what was known as "Signals Intelligence" like the rest of Military Intelligence, it was quite the oxymoron. Anyway, when we disembarked the helo it was required that all marines take part in the security perimeter, including me. My backpack and full gear weighed about 250 lbs I weighed about 165 sopping wet. Once I was in the prone position, it was impossible for me to get up. I could roll over, but then I was like a turtle. Ended up having to have two guys pick me up and put me on my feet. They made fun of me for the entire time I was assigned to them after that.

finite trench
boreal bobcat
#

Just give em a rank 1 back wound and let em pick up boxes that are too heavy!

digital turtle
# ashen carbon Yes, actually. I was once seconded to a Marine Infantry company that handled em...

What I wouldn't give for being 21 again. That is some prime shape right there. Are you supposed to be ready for combat while carrying so much weight? I remember putting one of my kids on one of those kid carriers when he weighed about 35-40 lbs and and the other kid weighed about the same in a jogger stroller (which was a heavy 2 kid stroller) and jogging up steep hills. I thought that was not too bad for dad days. But if a group of trolls came out and I had to fight, oh man I think I'd have to put everything down.

ashen carbon
# digital turtle What I wouldn't give for being 21 again. That is some prime shape right there. A...

Yes, I was supposed to be ready for combat and everyone involved (except for the officer in charge, of course) thought it was hilarious. Once I went prone, that backpack pushed up on the back of my helmet. I was prone, rifle facing forward, but I couldn't see anything. Would've just been shooting blind. Besides the turtle joke, due to the number of antennaes also connected to my gear, I was knows as the 'desginated target'

vital badge
#

you are expected to be able to carry and fight with a standard loadout. Most folks will find ways to pair down what that standard loadout is when they hit where the fighting actually happens. They will then turn around and fill it back up when it's time for inspection however. My old man could talk your ear off about having to carry all sorts of junk he didn't need.

boreal bobcat
#

When you get ambushed with no real cover, you're gonna love that big bag providing some. When pulling security we would always remove and place the bag in front of us. Depending on how long you're at the spot of course. Various levels of hunkering down.

digital turtle
fading flare
wispy forum
#

Alright, I'm gonna cause some chaos again, please forgive me. Would folks be willing to help me understand why this is a bad model? I know the stated goal was based around the concept that it was hard to price things that affected large wealth disparties equally; I am suggesting, don't.

I'm also making the assumption that the precedent for access/entries to raffles, claims and what not remain account gated.

Step 1. Add evergreen aspirational goals for super high end silver prices
Step 2. Price fundamental goods and services around median incomes
Step 3. Remove the loot cap for paid subscribers
Step 4. Stonks to the moon?

jolly palm
#

I think Step 1 would have to be account or character attuned to be viable.

boreal bobcat
#

Good luck with step 3

fading flare
tender scarab
chilly tulip
#

Yeah Porter is garbage from the dump now. Much like the small races.

wispy forum
wispy forum
fading flare
wispy forum
safe epoch
#

Does anyone know... have I missed a response from the team about chrisms? I realize gem values are completely different now and many gems that made for good chrisms no longer do. Have chrism thresholds been adjusted now too so we can start trying to make some and get a bright from time to time?

fading flare
#

Asking for pay events to require a silver component, like EG flare adds used to, would make more sense in case of no lootcap, but I don’t know if anyone liked that. It was just getting double tapped.

@safe epoch emeralds and diamonds are okay again, I think, back to 3-4k average instead of 1-2k.

tender scarab
#

Rares (like diamonds) are purifying to a max of ~7k now, so yeah, they're good to go again. Not as good as they used to be, but chrism-level at least.

safe epoch
#

Cheers y'all.

finite trench
# wispy forum Yup! Im proposing no loot cap. I know it wont happen, im just challenging the co...

This model is probably the most frequently requested model, especially by people who hit the loot cap; the idea of "just add stuff people with silver want to buy" comes up over and over.

Here are the big problems as I see them:

  • A big reason people farm large amounts of silver is to engage in RMT. It is impossible to introduce silver purchase goals that these people want because what they want is USD to pay for their accounts, etc. They can only be constrained by the loot cap.
  • "Evergreen aspirational goals" and "fundamental goods and services" are extremely general phrases that need to be more fleshed out. Generally when people have made proposals for evergreen goals they have been things that would create such huge power disparities that various parts of the game would become trivial for rich players and/or unnavigable for poorer players. This is already a problem with Gemstones. Similarly, players have vastly different ideas of what "fundamental goods and services" are.
  • Many services are provided by players. GMs have limited ability to control the price of these services except by controlling silver generation.
#

It is valuable to join the payer's corner discord to understand the real scope of gemstone economic action. Large amounts of it does not take place on the official discord. Also I'm told the angry posts are funnier.

brazen salmon
#

7k is still pretty nice, I'm not mad about that.

vital badge
#

and as the saying goes, rising waters raise all ships. In this case, it's a bad thing because suddenly you have a massive influx of silver, de-valuing the purchasing power of silver across the board. What used to be 100m silver is now 300m, or more.

wary nebula
#

Maybe if we could buy SimuCoin items with silvers. Or a "monthly subscription" item with silvers that would drain even more. I think you can buy a sub in WoW with their currency

fading flare
vital badge
brazen salmon
#

You can also buy WoW gold for RL money tho, which simu isn't really doing yet.

wary nebula
#

Just food for thought! I'm not an economist nor do I pretend to be one so I have no idea the effects on our economy for something like that

tender scarab
# wispy forum Alright, I'm gonna cause some chaos again, please forgive me. Would folks be wil...

The thing is that we don't have to convince you it's a bad model, just not one that staff would approve. They have two factors they're working against, as stated in the changes: 1) automation, and 2) an economy in which there's a certain degree of disparity between the silver generated by a certain top percentage and everyone else.

But removing the loot cap amplifies the impacts of both 1 and 2. Any model you come up with basically has to assume loot cap as a given and flesh itself out from there.

finite trench
#

generally you can almost always trade USD->silver by buying pay event currency and selling it for silver, since there is almost always a market for that trade, although the exact details of that market have wavered over time. if anything that trade should be even better this DR if silver is really rarer. in a sense bloodscrip is gemplex

boreal bobcat
#

I assume you guys are not talking about the media app PLEX?

vital badge
#

yep

Plex is the subscription token from EvE online.
Or was, before it became a currency

finite trench
#

eve has some interesting multi-account issues of its own, related to plex, but also eve has a specific hierarchical model which encourages becoming management in order to avoid paying for things. actually it's very interesting as a study lol

vital badge
#

they are also dealing with rampant inflation and item bloat, they have their own austerity measures they take.

chilly berry
finite trench
#

eve's political economy is that almost all items in the game ultimately come from mining but mining sucks, so corporations need to design structures that convince people to mine even though it is basically a boring activity in order to generate the raw resources necessary for larger military activity. this is not a political post

dusky kernel
#

devil's advocate: why do we need to make any concessions for players who hit loot cap? Certainly the loot cap is meant in some way to change player behavior. Why not let said behavior change (once the tantrums are over)?

chilly tulip
#

Yeah if you are loot capped and gemstone capped, you're relegated to exp/fame hunting or you can simply Log Off

finite trench
#

I agree. I think the 1% hole in the dam is already a really bad change honestly but I guess we'll have to observe the effects of it! I think it is good game design to set clear limits for player behavior so they can respond to those limits. Loot cap means you got too much loot. Congratulations, go do something else

brazen salmon
#

I guess I wouldn't care loot cap and silver reduction (as a player who hits it) if I saw that the prices of things also going down.

Seeing gemstone unbinding/amplfiy/slot opening stay the same bothers me more than the loot cap dropping

I'm also kinda weird in that hitting lootcap (for me) was a byproduct of hunting, my main goal was exp.

chilly berry
fading flare
# dusky kernel devil's advocate: why do we need to make any concessions for players who hit loo...

I tend to agree. I hunt a decent amount in HW and am in the 12-15m range this month so far. It’s tolerable.

I do think a little attention to an alternate form of reward for time could be possible. I just haven’t decided what. Extra dust would be fine for capped Ascension hunters, or a higher random Quest chance (like the Hound).

But the fact that it’s likely not mechanical, or not much, could mean it’s a hard area to address.

finite trench
#

in terms of "evergreen aspirational expenditures" I think they still messed up on the gemstone rerolling cost and it should be a flat silver cost that does not increase per use per week. let people dump their silvers into the slot machine. eventually they will get lucky just keep rerolling.

chilly tulip
#

I'm just hunting until out of mana (with 510 mana and a tier 5 Mana Wellspring gemstone on deck) and have cracked back onto Fame All 1. Witness me.

timber kraken
#

The hard loot capped situation that many of us are in is hopefully a one-time situation, since we artificially went over the limit under the old silver cap.

The slow down in loot between 10-15mil should hopefully keep us out of it in the future. Because yeah, it stinks.

brazen salmon
#

I want an EXP list

fast cipher
finite trench
#

if you hit the hard loot cap in january by mid january you are probably very likely to hit a point you find unreasonably poor every month, tbh, but that is, again, actually the point of the loot cap.

bright pasture
#

we should get +1 mil loot cap for every 10 mil exp 😄

timber kraken
#

Unreasonably poor would be bearable. But going on a 15 minute hunt where I kill 200 critters and get zero loot is bad.

I’d feel better with a handful of bad gems and crystal amulets, worth 5k total. Just psychologically… it wouldn’t have any real impact on silver generation.

crimson pond
#

Actual zero loot shouldn't be happening, since there is no hard cap anymore

bright pasture
jolly palm
#

We're not really in a position to know how loot will flow from start to finish of a month based on the timing of the update.

We'll all be MUCH more informed by the end of February.

fading flare
#

What if no hard lootcap, just a 1-3% chance of treasure compared to not being under loot cap.

Always a chance then.

Maybe the soft cap gets so close to this near 15m, it’s the same idea though.

timber kraken
#

1% loot, I believe, means on each kill there is a hidden D100 roll. If you roll 100 you get whatever you normally would have gotten. Anything else is zero.

So if loot pressure is already making critters poor - and only 1 out of 3 would have anything anyway - then you wouldn’t see anything, on average, for 300 kills

chilly berry
bright pasture
timber kraken
#

I got one box so far, which felt amazing. Maybe 3k kills total

I also got a copper lockpick, which honestly was insulting

finite trench
#

You might have pushed into the secret earthdiver tier of lootcap

bright pasture
#

yeah, i was around 35 mil for the month

chilly tulip
finite trench
tender scarab
bright pasture
#

the sad part is that i don't even loot hunt - i just do back-to-back bounties and find my three gigas stones

chilly tulip
bright pasture
#

do they kick you out of the pawnshop if you lurk or is that just the alchemist?

<new hobbies>

flint flame
#

I once saw the same guy hanging out at WL pawnshop every time I went there for like, at least two weeks.

shell phoenix
chilly berry
bright pasture
#

what did people haunt the alchemist for?

tender scarab
cold zephyr
chilly berry
#

Alchemy
Fishing
Ah! Farming.

What other “new hobbies” should I pick up?

Is there farmland in Zul?

Already have forging. And fletching

tender scarab
#

Darts and origami.

boreal bobcat
#

Spirit beast, that gives experience at least hmm?

frozen tusk
#

Open up an arena area where we can kill each other for XP.

visual oar
#

I wanted to get into origami, but the fact it's an entirely event paid skill... 😡

unique oyster
#

Play Pennant Chase!

mellow gyro
#

I've grown to like Simucoin currency. I play 1 guy, maybe somebody else plays 30, but potentially we're still 1 player and 1 player so it's closer to a level playing field. I'll never beat a script as a human, but my wallet might. I also say never buy something you can earn over time so it becomes value consideration and willingness of purchasing power.

unique oyster
# 
H>weigh str
You carefully examine the wooden strongbox and determine that the weight is about 52 pounds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>l in disk
There is nothing in there.
R>put str in disk
Your strongbox won't fit in the Hymore disk.

This isn't cool. Don't give me boxes I can't fit into an empty disk.

slate bluff
#

How is that possible, is it a disk for ants??? (If there is 9 items in that box I would be jumping for joy)

unique oyster
#

I'll pick it once I recover from my death and let you know what was in it. Box + 2 open rolls is not fun.

boreal bobcat
#

It must have like 6 items in it!

ashen carbon
slate bluff
#

Archales said he found a box with 3 jewelrys in it yet I havent had similar luck.... life isnt fair

unique oyster
# 
In the wooden strongbox:
gem (3): an uncut diamond, a chunk of dark mica, a small copper nugget.
jewelry (1): a garnet-set ora neckchain.
wand (1): an aquamarine wand.
lockpick (1): a steel lockpick.
other (1): some silver coins.
valuable (1): a bright gold ingot.
>look at coins
There are 5,183 coins there.
The silver is the coin of the realm, accepted by most Elanthian merchants.
>look at ingot
The ingot is a solid bar of pure gold with a smooth, polished surface.  You can't be sure, but you think the gold ingot might be worth between 3484 and 4180 silver if sold at a gem shop.

It is a nice find but I wish it didn't get me killed and could fit in my disk.

tender scarab
split jacinth
#

Hm, I guess disking kind of lost a capacity now with the change to reduce box weight via gold ingot. Also these boxes are more rewarding to offer more. I would almost call the basic lockpicks junk.. [copper, steel and silver] probably same with basic wands too that just add items but dont feel rewarding making it harder to disk.

tender scarab
#

Wands are great now that I know they can be duplicated without losing value!

split jacinth
#

yea, I guess value wise - wands can out value gems easier than before

ashen carbon
unique oyster
#

My complains aside, I am enjoying having 5x lumnis, +50% exp scroll, violet RPA orb. 300 xp per pulse is nice to see.

vale galleon
split hamlet
#

As a roleplayer, I'd just like to mention that these new heavy boxes are really breaking my immersion.

It's hard for me to imagine the treasure boxes that drop are the size of a refrigerator.

This crate for example, is 152 lbs empty, and it's 4ftx4ftx4ft.
https://sandbaggy.com/products/collapsible-wood-shipping-crate-with-pallet-48-x-48-x-48?variant=51685458936180&currency=USD&srsltid=AfmBOoogTPOnVSqz-Q3qXo4kPp0xl8tYezyQW1qs5TAhKLBEI4OgplDO

Treasure boxes should feel appropriately sized and weighted to make sense from a roleplaying perspective.

boreal bobcat
#

Now show us one that's 8lbs empty

warm agate
#

Need a wagon size crate for a frig

frozen tusk
#

With boxes this big, I propose we need bigger hats.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, the TOP HAT.

9k.png
dry sedge
split hamlet
lucid latch
#

You missed the part where ingots are made from the core of a dying star and then gold plated just for @frozen tusk

frozen tusk
#

Ingots are made of veil iron?

boreal bobcat
#

Having worked around wood most of my life, they must be using the densest wood known to man to make that 10x10x10 box.

fierce lantern
split hamlet
#

I too have worked with wood for most of my life.

For size reference.

image.png
lucid latch
#

... phrasing.

fierce lantern
frozen tusk
#

That might be something though, all ingots have a chance to drop as all the various metals we have in the lands. They'd retain their silver value but could also be collected or sold for forging.

Same for fabrics and wood materials.

Instead of just gold ingots.

So these gold ingots would become maybe 10% chance and the other 90% is a chance to find a forging metal, fabric, wood, or other material that can be used in the various systems or sold at the gemshop for silvers.

finite trench
#

gold ingots should only spawn in mithril boxes since they would just break out of the bottom of wooden boxes

split hamlet
wispy forum
#

@fading flare aspirational evergreen things, (or one time achievement chases could fit here as well, i should clarify), would be targeted at top earners/wealth holders and are ideally things they would want to buy for silvers if they had excess to spend

power, prestige, progression, status, expression, exploration, achievement, fluff - just think of anything you'd be willing to buy if you had a glut of silvers that didn't invalidate event currency offerings

  • @finite trench gemstone rerolling is one yes, but they don't even need to be this powerful if there is no cap
    -you can sell smaller increments of power for large amounts; what if you could buy 1 asc point for idk, 50m, 250m, pick a number that makes sense; or a permanent +1AS or CS
    -for prestige a special title you can only buy for tons of silvers
    -a crazy high end property for bajillions of silvers
    -a super rare pet for tons of silvers
    -reminiscent of auction level stuff but not in function or power available to all but gated by huge numbers

median things are stuff we want all players to be able to buy - raffle tickets, event claim, travel services, deeds, the new xp tutelage, enhancive charging, a bit of wps, etc

@tender scarab yea i know, i'm obsessed with this concept, but you're legit right, it's not going to happen, and I need to just drop it

tender scarab
finite trench
#

I don't really see how you expect this to work, the GMs would just be working full time on more pets and private properties for three characters. why would any of the rest of us like this system

wispy forum
#

is there nothing you would want to chase that you could buy for silvers?

boreal bobcat
#

😂

split hamlet
finite trench
wispy forum
finite trench
#

of course it matters for me if game design time and energy goes to things intentionally positioned to be inaccessible to me

split hamlet
wispy forum
# split hamlet https://gswiki.play.net/User:GS4ALASTIR/Proposal:Loot_Cap The first three point...

ah i've never been involved in loot convos before so not familiar with this - but again it doesn't matter, i really just wanted to say my piece, i will stop talking now

@finite trench i could never afford an MTG Black Lotus when i was in my 20s, I recently purchased one at 43, it was a really cool feeling to work for something like that and be in a position where i could finally afford it

i dont say that as a flex, just an example of what aspiration means to me

sleek meadow
#

Just as ascension is a tier uncapped players can approach maybe there needs to be a god tier where you can truly ascend and play and gather even more upper items and special Ambrosia coins or something to occupy yourself bit it’s all attuned to the character and ceases functioning down in the mortal realm.

A planar level increase to 150 and only accessible by people who have 25 million ascension. So if you hit mortal loot caps and are bored you can zip up and do a new tier that in no way impacts mortals. Ascension on steroids but gated off.

finite trench
#

you should really think hard about how the gemstone system has affected the game. people were excited about it because it offered the potential to get cool buffs for your character. in practice the outcome is that a very small group of people have access to cool buffs and everybody else is playing the slot machine, and a lot of people found that frustrating or discouraging. you're proposing to extend that to the rest of the game. another example would be that these "+1 AS/+1 CS" items actually exist in the game right now and are sold for large amount of silvers, and people don't find that aspirational either. most people want to play the game and get stuff. they don't necessarily want to learn how to defeat AFK script checks on 11 character simultaneously in order to get that stuff

#

the other thing to observe here is that those characters who have the silver funding necessary to get the gems and the bonus CS items STILL have essentially infinite silvers, and that's under the loot cap regime.

wispy forum
# finite trench you should really think hard about how the gemstone system has affected the game...

gemstones are the most exciting thing I find right now! i'm always really excited to see what it does when one drops - they have not been good lol and I don't have the disposable income to be rerolling them (also I haven't looked into how to do it yet and I heard it wasn't a good idea) - i still need my silvers for other things right now so I don't feel I can invest in rerolling yet, if i had enough disposable silvers I would though

boreal bobcat
#

exactly, so why fight it, just embrace it, give me my own gm to keep me spending my infinite silvers! ||Nisugi doesn't have infinite silvers :sad:||

finite trench
split hamlet
boreal bobcat
#

Woosh? You know the point was the people with infinite silver can buy the gemstones for unreasonable prices while those without are left with their dust stones.

split hamlet
#

I found my mirror image. 🤷

Time, and effort.

wispy forum
finite trench
#

that's true, but it's too much time and effort. they should change the system so it doesn't take so much time and effort. in fact they should explicitly devalue spending too much time and effort, for the benefit of the players spending too much time and effort, so they can do something else

boreal bobcat
split hamlet
crimson pond
chilly berry
finite trench
#

broadly this is the argument of the heroin dealer as well. I think that businesses should constrain how people engage with their product, to avoid unhealthy use.

chilly tulip
chilly berry
#

This is a textbook example of a false equivalence. (replying to Tikba here)

#

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say whether or not it is Simutronics's responsibility to regulate its player bases off time and manage how much time they spend in game is firmly off topic for this thread.

wispy forum
bright pasture
jolly palm
vital badge
chilly berry
finite trench
vital badge
# chilly berry It is meaningless to debate the merits of an argument whose premise is a false e...

No, I think there is merit in discussing where a company might recognize an issue with their playerbase and course correct any potential avenues by which their playerbase might be exploited. However, I don't think it's something we can reasonably ask a company to just shoulder on their own, and not recognize we have some responsibility to take ownership of there as well.

I don't think this is the place to do so, but I think it's a conversation that should happen somewhere.

bright pasture
thorny roost
#

3 and 30 day exp modifying scrolls are also crazy if you want to dissuade people from unhealthy behavior.

split hamlet
finite trench
#

I’ve long said we should have a timer on all discord channels!

split hamlet
#

It definitely would be more healthy.

digital turtle
#

are boxes getting changed yet?

vital badge
#

to?

mossy forge
finite trench
#

and if you don’t pay the upkeep your stuff should break. 100% agree

mossy forge
#

No, it should just be unusable until you do.

Wow, Diablo, EQ2 have these systems because of this.

digital turtle
vital badge
#

no

mossy forge
#

Breakage just needs to be refined and implemented, it shouldn't destroy your items though.

vital badge
#

the amount of gold the repair system in WoW removes from the game while steady, is miniscule compared to the earning potential of any but the least motivated players out there.

mossy forge
frozen tusk
#

Breakage or a repair fee, should impact the grinders the most if it was based on time spent in combat.

This would impact casual players far less compared to the locksmith pool fee which grinders are probably circumventing for the most part.

dusky kernel
vital badge
mossy forge
dusky kernel
tender scarab
#

With breakage, I'd embrace the open-handed, max Brawling, max TWC, spells-only meta.

wispy forum
vital badge
frozen tusk
mossy forge
dusky kernel
tender scarab
fading flare
#

I don’t know if there’s been many additions since I posted this, but I’ll post it again for input:

If we summarize the requests in this channel so far:

  1. Something more interesting to do to keep people playing after the loot cap. Whether that is gemstones, dust, or something else.

  2. Maybe some updates to the Lumnis brooch. Even a free re-arrangement of runs on the orbs would be nice.

  3. Potentially making orbs apply to resource gain again.

  4. Reviewing low-level loot to make sure that people aren’t only bringing in 500 silvers per hunt and can get enough to buy gear, deeds, and Lumnis donations.

  5. Potentially making Lumnis Donate have more gradual prices at lower levels.

  6. A LOOTCAP verb. (Or adding a roleplay-style line about how much treasure you’ve gathered recently as a line under the Silver/Wealth verb.)

  7. Locksmith pool fee evaluation. Maybe even making the tip part of the fee would be better, or something else. I’m not as attached to this one, but people seem to like it. It’s true that it is a triple whammy with lootcap, silver suppression, and a fee.

  8. Addressing box weight and adding more interesting loot. This includes addressing OSA cargo bin size.

  9. Anything I missed?

With all of that said, I appreciate the recent changes today. 85 per pulse for resources feels fine and the field experience pool increase is great. Thanks for the adjustments.

(It’s a game we’ve been playing for 30 years. We all have opinions on the best way to keep it alive. These aren’t demands at all, just friendly ways that might improve life in Elanthia following the reduction in silver, resources, lower lootcap, etc.)

Box weight seems to be the major discussion at the moment.

wispy forum
dusky kernel
#

What if I enjoy doing the DR arena with 100k exp in my head? Dev spends so much time protecting players from themselves as it is

chilly berry
vital badge
mossy forge
split hamlet
#

  1. I would like something more interesting to do once loot capped.

  2. Lumnis brooches still provide more experience, even if more costly.

  3. Orbs should not apply to resource gains again

  4. Treasure should always been a net gain.

  5. Lumnis Donate should correlate to character level.

  6. We shouldn't have to rely on a third party script to know this information, but asked and denied before.

  7. Remove the fee and just put 0 silvers in boxes. Make silvers drop directly from creatures so it increments more evenly.

  8. Yes.

  9. You missed that orbs should not apply to resource gains, again.

finite trench
#

they should add a system where you can actually just steal silvers from other players, and they can't even consistently see you do it

dusky kernel
tender scarab
# fading flare I don’t know if there’s been many additions since I posted this, but I’ll post i...

Assuming OSA cargo bin size falls under 8, that sounds about right.

Maybe 6 could be expanded to also include a safeguard against unknowingly wasting pay event entries in case the LOOTCAP verb (which would be a safeguard for that, among other benefits) isn't viable for whatever reason.

I like the idea on 2 of a one-time free (or even heavily discounted) swapping of brooch runs. I don't need nearly as much Planar now with the larger pool to use my Spiritual rubs. I think if it were fully free, I'd actually abandon Planar entirely and Spiritual almost entirely to just toss everything into Order, a benefit that doesn't have newer and better competition.

normal drum
chilly berry
fading flare
vital badge
split hamlet
wispy forum
fading flare
frozen tusk
#

Simplest implementation:

I'd make a separate degradation debuff that affects every character regardless of equipment. Doesn't matter what or how much you're wearing, it degrades.

This is to hit Leafiara the same as everyone else. =p

At 24 hours you're at max degradation which is a 50% drop in AS/DS/CS/TD.

10 silvers x level of character to remove 1 hour of degradation debuff.

So a level 1 is paying 10 silvers after an hour to restore combat effectives.

A level 100 is paying 1000 silvers to remove 1 hour of degradation debuff.

digital turtle
mossy forge
#

Kontii is directly applying loot pressure to other gamers, and killing creatures that they could be, thereby directly influencing how others hunt! (Wildly playing along with this line of thought).

wispy forum
dusky kernel
#

Kontii directly applying loot pressure, threatening everyone who loots

image.png
vital badge
# frozen tusk Simplest implementation: I'd make a separate degradation debuff that affects ev...

I would just track it during combat and divide the number of attack actions incoming and outgoing by the time in active combat. There is your item damage. Divide that by all the gear that has durability, and then assign an arbitrary coin value to get it repaired. Have it work on a sliding scale if the gear has services and/or a script. That way a level 0 is paying peanuts, and the tricked out grinders are paying more.

frozen tusk
mossy forge
boreal bobcat
#

Might as well make it a login tax. Every day you get your login boosts and your login tax taken. If you can't pay it 5 days, you put in the consultation lounge

fading flare
#

It’s interesting that we’ve come back around to breakage. However, all of you know that the instant they suggest putting it into place, the threads angrily responding to it would be much longer than even this one.

frozen tusk
#

Fewer incoming and outgoing actions per mob compared to someone solo or a smaller two person group.

It also impacts those that use less gear.

If you want a fee that will impact everyone equally and fairly you can do it, but make it purely time in combat based.

Time impacts everyone equally whether you're an MA group or a solo player.

vital badge
mossy forge
frozen tusk
boreal bobcat
#

An MA group wish they could compete with my twc nature's fury mstrike
One action, room cleared

mossy forge
#

Right, but if you have 5 characters, you have to hunt longer. offsetting those fewer actions, and on par with the fact your paying more $$.

cold zephyr
#

I've come across 36 boxes in my limited hunting over the past week on various characters on creatures between levels 43 and 63, here are some stats:

Heaviest box found = 116 pounds
Lightest box found = 19 pounds
Average # of items per box (including box) = 6.1
Average silver of total items (including box) = 10,826
Average silver cost NPC locksmith keeps = 39%
 * Or average silver cost NPC takes per box = 4,129
(if you use the pool, half the amounts the NPC locksmith takes which does not include a tip)```

Only 1 of the boxes exceeded 8 items and would not fit in a disk.

I wouldn't say that box weight is a problem, generally, but usually when I find one box I find another immediately and then I'm forced to return to town to deal with them.  Then I'll go through 3 hunts without a box.

Usually it's the build up of silvers from looting creatures that that is more troublesome than a box, for me, at least.
mossy forge
boreal bobcat
#

I heard second hand someone found 3 pieces of enhancive jewelry in a box

fading flare
frozen tusk
#

You carefully examine the modwir chest and determine that the weight is about 80 pounds.

I'm pretty severely loot capped but I can generally find 1 box by the time it takes me to complete a heirloom or kill bounty in HW.

chilly berry
brazen salmon
#

I've seen 1 box all week and I've been hunting ... a lot lol

I did find a heavy quartz orb on my last hunt though. \o/

fading flare
chilly berry
dusky kernel
mossy forge
#

We peons need to get to work I see. "Alm's for the poor."

finite trench
brazen salmon
chilly berry
brazen salmon
#

Yeaaaaah... I can't recall a time where he's directed it at me, though.

gloomy lark
shrewd mountain
#

I have seen boxes with 8k+ on the semi regular though

chilly berry
gloomy lark
mossy forge
#

It just seems like a low amount to me, I dunno. Shouldn't boxes have 10k+ in silvers PLUS whatever?

crimson pond
#

Excess silver is converted to gold ingots

cerulean stirrup
#

Just want to throw my opinion back in here. After the changes, I'm appeased. Still a loot decrease, but a manageable one now. I don't feel like I'm hunting for nothing anymore. Resource change was also helpful. Yeah it takes longer, but I'm more confident it's at least doable as a casual player with one main character. Thanks for listening to the feedback and walking this back a bit.

warm agate
# wispy forum gemstones are the most exciting thing I find right now! i'm always really excite...

As pretty much everyone knows, I don't play the "gemstones game" I don't like the idea of it. I'd like to have the excitement of finding interesting boxes that would be exciting to me. I do like the new quest system, I just did one today where I hunt and found it just popping up on my screen and enjoyed it. I'd like to see more of that, just as many of you would like to continue finding and selling "gemstones." Heck I'd like to find a third REAL gem if you looking for something fun to put back in the game. ::snicker::

rough vault
#

Sadly real gems became too easy to script for. But it would be neat if we could brainstorm a list of 10 highly coveted cool items that one could maybe buy in game with gobs of silvers that yield an item in game and irl like REAL gems. The in game version would be mostly to flex your greatness creating envy; the rl version a nice momento to put near your computer or wear to Simucon.

#

A custom designed limited quantity exclusive silver charm for bracelet with sniffy scent of wyrm horde for example.

warm agate
#

Yes, I could see that nowadays with the use of scripts. You did ding an idea there like a limited quantity of merchandise/swag for sale. I mean obviously the market for it would be small, :🤷:

rough vault
#

Maybe. If it screamed to all GMs when you rubbed it, some would want just to be annoying.

jolly palm
#

Farfignewgut made this chart to help show the difference betwee the time it takes, old way vs. new to reach 50k. Super helpful, and makes it easier to see! Resources on the left axis. Time (minutes) on the bottom axis.

image.png
#

I'll say, i'm a huge fan of the steady resource increase.

I will miss being able to expedite resources when needed with an orb, based on when I can't hit normal playing time... but i think less overall time and losing that is a decent trade off.

It just feels like less of a slog to me vs. when that last 12-15k was staring at you the old way.

devout bobcat
#

I am also a fan of the steady increase and I like not having to babysit pulses to expedite the process. I like this new method much better. I figure when I really need to fast track resources for the week, I can use the lighthouse instead of orbs.

vital badge
#

how does the lighthouse expedite resources?
or did you mean the lantern?

devout bobcat
#

Yeah sorry I just lump all premium point offerings into the lighthouse in my head. (Listen, it's 7am.... it's early)

vital badge
#

it's ok, I forgive you

tender condor
cerulean stirrup
jolly palm
split hamlet
#

I would like to propose a reduction in the costs associated with Gemstones.

Details here: #gemstones message

cold zephyr
#

There's certainly a noticeable slowdown in silver gain, but that's mostly due to the shifting of gem's values and the fact that you used to be able to find uncut emeralds/diamonds from pretty much any creature that wasn't over hunted in low levels to the top of the chart. Returning from a hunt with a dozen+ of them, any furs, boxes and other gems usually meant you could be clearing out 100K+ easily (at least it did for me).

Spots I liked to hunt for a little extra loot, a properly trained character that could skin well, I could knock out 500k in a day in roughly 4 hunts with a major loot boost. After that I'd get bored of it, honestly not a very fun time for me trying to grind silver so something like this was a once in a great, great while for me (maybe once every 3-4 months, just to change things up a bit).

After normal hunting over the past week with the changes, hunting in level 43 to 63 range, I've pulled 40 boxes. Not a single box in this range (nor from looting creatures, with or without a major loot boost) has resulted in giving me any gem in the rare category or up. This means no uncut emeralds, no uncut diamonds and I've only come across 1 - yep, just 1 - uncut ruby.

I haven't kept track of how much silver I've gotten from skins and creature loot, but I know from the 40 boxes I've made 425K. I'd venture to guess I've done about 1/3 of that in creatures skins/loot. I'd be safe to say I've generated around 550k this past week. This is certainly a lot lower since the change, usually a month that I do a good bit of hunting I could pull in 4-5 mil. I'm on track to pull in maybe half that if I keep up hunting like I have been. A 4-5mil hunting month for me only happened a couple times a year since I'm usually taking a chunk of time for the forage and goofing around on mutant builds that don't generate much silver overall due to lack of skinning and under hunting to gain experience.

sturdy ridge
#

Since the change, and approaching or reaching loot cap on 3 characters, not once enhancive drop

remote egret
#

Huh. I've gotten...3 or 4 I think since the change. One really good one (although nothing like what Nucky has been slingin') The one I got yesterday is 10 climb bonus, 10 FA bonus! Other one was like...10 stamina regen, pin worn.

devout bobcat
#

Approaching loot cap on Maylan (or there already, I don't really know), I've found three enhancives this week. Just for some comparison data. Feels like I used to find more, but I don't have any data for that.

valid orbit
#

An example here. Before the changes I used to wake up in the morning and pick at the pool for about 15 minutes and fry before I had to get the kids up. This morning I think I got 1 box, about 200 exp, had to stop with nearly an empty head. I think they are addressing issues in a good priority order based on feedback, but I hope they dont stop short of improving the pool.

Oh yeah, and I do occasionally ask the void if anyone wants theirs boxes picked for free outside of the pool. Not often do I get takers on that. Not a reliable source of EXP anyway.

main falcon
#

I presume fash'lo'nae's tutelage will apply to a single character on an account, right?

dusky kernel
vital badge
#

that would probably be an insane value if it were account wide.

main falcon
#

I mean - it's already an insane value in some regards - has it been stated that it's NOT account wide. I expect that's the case but haven't seen definitive verification.

fierce lynx
boreal bobcat
#

It has a cap of 100k per week, so I don't see anything wrong with allowing that to be split up on an account, but unlikely.

visual oar
#

is there a "crap i forgot to donate before lumnis started this week" button?

valid orbit
icy sentinel
#

@royal epoch So question for you... since these changes have you played a low level character to see if you still think this is true?

remote sun
#

how low is low?

dusky kernel
dusky kernel
simple canyon
#

with Turbo Lumnis, you'll miss all the fun stuff with low-level hunting

split hamlet
vital badge
ashen carbon
#

Getting to 20 is the easy part, 20 to whenever you can create a 1st tier of whatever profession item you can make is probably the biggest sticking point. Even the worst selling of 1st tier probably pays for a full month of lumnis if not better. @slate bluff I don't think using scrubs like me is a good example of how long 'most people' take to cap

slate bluff
#

If it took most ppl 20 years to cap..... seems like you should be required 1-2 years at every hunting ground per 10 levels

sleek meadow
wispy forum
valid orbit
boreal bobcat
#

I think the intentions aren't realized in a month where a lot of people passed the lootcap before it was changed.

lofty dragon
#

With what the pool charges now, it's worth using the family vault to have my rogue pick them for my other characters.... even without having to tip on top of it. The pool did need a change, but it swung way too far in the other direction.... the pool's dead to me unless they cut the fee tied to it by half present rates or more

sleek meadow
#

what I would give for 50 more slots in my family vault...hint hint..

chilly berry
#

At the risk of a nerf to the loot at warcamps, I'm going to venture to ask:

Do you still get the same number of boxes clearing a warcamp but in the new system? If so, that might make GoS people able to upgrade to the poorest sector of player, (rather than being a separate category, lower than "poor")

Edit to add: I'll try later. Just haven't done warcamps in a while since the focus was silver generation with the auction coming up.

boreal bobcat
#

People were complaining about osa requiring more search attempts to get boxes.

valid orbit
# split hamlet I'm not sure that "Inconvenience everyone else so I can have more boxes" is a go...

Oh my, you again. I think the best changes would be to... 1. Adjust the pool box formula to slow down the out flow of boxes to better align with the in flow of boxes. 2. Give 0 fees for the first X boxes per day into a free pool so that the little guys dont get hammered by the regressive tax. 3. Allow Y boxes per day from the free pool to go out to pickers after that they are back to the fee pool.

I dont think your comment accurately portrays my angle.

lofty dragon
ashen carbon
#

Reim has less boxes. I don't remember ever killing a boss in Reim before and not getting a box at all. But, at least half of my recent boss kills in Reim are boxless.

chilly berry
gloomy lark
neat tangle
#

It’s been suggested a few times, but I’d have preferred to see those at lootcap still find stuff even if the items are devalued. Give them boxes to contribute to the pool, even if they contain crysta amulets and small statues worth 20silvers apiece.

rotund siren
#

...I just want my family vault slots to transfer from plat.

boreal bobcat
#

Only problem with that is I'm not paying a 2k fee for a couple 20 silver items.

ashen carbon
#

Was the anamilist totem announcement this morning moved over here and pinned?

vital badge
#

no, I don't believe so

thorny roost
#

I am still of the mind that the fee is completely unnecessary and unfairly targets those who play only one character, or fewer characters, or just doesn't play a rogue. Obviously there are other ways to get the loot from a box, but I am simplifying things here.

Is there any other income related system that targets everyone barring one class?

I realize this also might be an oversimplification of the systems at work here.

valid orbit
thorny roost
shrewd peak
#

Where on FWI is this lantern located? Never knew about this.

fading flare
#

It's relatively new. Somewhere in the Lighthouse. Came out about a year ago maybe

shrewd peak
#

Yeah, I figured that might be a likely location, but I'm not finding it.

remote egret
#

In the library - I have a go2 target I'll log in and find it. 19397 if you use LICH @shrewd peak

shrewd peak
#

Ahh, the library. I'll check.

split hamlet
shrewd peak
#

Hmm, I guess I found it, but rubbing it does nothing. I saw a post on the 17th indicating it was fixed?

remote egret
shrewd peak
#

Okay, I guess a sign would be good here. lol. Thanks so much for the help.

royal epoch
gloomy lark
#

it starts costing 250K at lvl 21

brazen salmon
# 
+----------+--------+--------+---------
| silver   | 20,782 | 38,536 | 151,076 | 
+----------+--------+--------+---------```

On a character I play to cap her resource (roughly 12-15 hours a week). She will deffo not be getting Grift of Lumnis!
tender scarab
#

The solution on being able to finish gem bounties with a loot capped character hasn't been finished yet, right? Or was there even a planned solution other than that we should just be hoarding?

(I kinda stopped reading this thread since they resolved everything I personally care about except OSA cargo bins and RoL brooches, so I genuinely don't know!)

warm agate
#

Doesn't seem like it to me :🤷:

frozen tusk
#

Also, can I just get a flag LUMNIS DONATE ON that automatically withdraws silver and pays it before my lumnis starts please?

tender scarab
#

Pretty sure this character I just got a gem bounty on is loot capped and it's not a gem I have hoarded, so I'll just try looting for a bit and see if I find anything. If not, no big deal and I can wait until it's fixed/changed at some point later.

light ferry
#

I've found I think 4-5 gems since the change. I'm removing the gem bounties when I get them. Can still find decent boxes and gems at the 15m+ cap, but the chance is so low it's not worth counting on getting enough to fill a gem bounty the rest of the month.

wary nebula
warm agate
#

Annoying checkmark

digital turtle
mellow gyro
#

It's trivial at 100. I'll say that part

tender scarab
#

To be fair, there's a difference between like 50 raffles at an Ebon Gate and ~4.2857 Temple of Lumnis donations per month.

warm agate
#

I'm tired of being fair

digital turtle
split hamlet
#

Man, this thread is exhausting.

mellow gyro
#

I'd expect mid-40s its got a time played equivalent that is reasonable. 55-65 probably efficient and into the 80s unless you hunt Minotaurs, which most of us get stuck on. Guesswork might be 5-10 hours and the perk is 5x Lumnis. If you are investing that much time it's good value payoff. Early levels you are trying to buy a mithril broadsword and then a vultite shield or aspects of that ethos.

warm agate
#

Agreed, I'm not saying what I want to, I think I'll write feedback instead. I'm starting to get steamed right now.

tender scarab
# digital turtle Im calling for some numbers to show what the average player makes and doesnt mak...

Wyrom just shared [the median](#1459003160105582627 message) a few weeks ago, but I do agree with people who have said that it's not the best measurement. Not that average on its own is any better than median on its own, though, but having both would be useful.

I think the real numbers we'd want are a level of detail they'd probably not be willing to share, but I'd love to be wrong. I don't remember if it was Kontii, Alastir, or someone else who basically talked about how it would be useful to know which types of characters are actually counted in the numbers in the first place, especially given what we've learned in here about the number of service alts that apparently get played.

Edit: It was [Kontii](#1461872047062908929 message). Edit 2: The numbers are derived from any loot-generating characters; see Estild below.

frozen tusk
#

Man, am I going to have dust off a level 20 alt to research loot? I think we're mainly hearing from folks that don't know how to earn silver and folks at cap being social justice warriors

remote egret
remote crane
split hamlet
#

I'd want to know the # of characters who reached 35m, 25m, 20m, 15m, 2m. I think it would paint a different picture rather than saying "the median is 2m" or 5% made 27% of.

tender scarab
shell phoenix
#

My level 48 rogue can make about 75k in a 15 minute hunt

digital turtle
# tender scarab Wyrom just shared [the median](https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1...

Thank you for sharing that. It's higher than I thought and what was shared during loot cap implementation. Maybe a discord guru can find that info that was shared then.

I wonder how many players this involved, their levels, and if that number falls off a cliff right after the middle there or not. We know at least half of players in december could afford a little under half their income (in the worst cases) for the lumnis boost, maybe quite a few more, maybe not. I don't think that puts it in the "trivial" category though... (December could also be an outlier of a month because people usually have way more time to play during the holidays)

#

I still think boxes being so heavy is a problem that should be addressed, and I usually only hunt bandits. Man I wish bandits dropped boxes.

remote egret
mellow gyro
#

These comments kind of lean into absolutes like you gotta spend the 250K for Lumnis 4x and 5x. At those levels it seems like a nice to have or I have a lot of freetime or I'm prioritizing a certain thing, but not a must have.

shell phoenix
#

Yes. cman mug + one shot ambushes are wonderful

#

48 rogue definitely makes more than the 65 wizard, mostly because the wizard explodes when a critter with an SMR attack looks at her. I feel like the 78 cleric makes more than both but haven't actually measured. All of them are 1x survival + FA so they skin decently

remote egret
chilly tulip
fading flare
shell phoenix
#

On the rogue? 2x. Wizard and Cleric are 1x

finite trench
#

I think median is generally more useful than most of the statistics people are asking about. It tells us what 50% of players are making less than.

remote egret
#

Is it wrong for me to not care about the bottom 50% of players and what they are making? I just want to know what the 60-80% folks are making. As those are the people I probably relate to!

tender scarab
#

50% of hunting characters. Just a question of how common it is that people are inflating the numbers on the low end by dividing small amounts of playtime among several characters on the same account.

Oh, he did say account. Okay, in that case, yeah, median is more helpful than I'm thinking.

boreal bobcat
#

Is it characters or is it account?
Now do median playtime.

mossy forge
#

So... I take it going to Troubled Waters or Night at the Academy is a bad idea if your under Loot cap..?

remote egret
royal epoch
royal epoch
mossy forge
#

Well you pick up the prize. I've always found loot, though mileage varied.

gloomy lark
#

no worries, just wanted to refresh your brain before the pitchforks came out 😜

royal epoch
#

It does not, to me, seem expensive for something as valuable as 5x Lumnis.

still sigil
#

It is about half of what the median player earns a month. Not too much to me, but something to consider.

royal epoch
#

Maybe if I had bribed Lumnis harder, she would have informed me as to the breakpoints so I didn't show my ignorance upthread. 😛

mossy forge
#

requirement to purchase = 0

royal epoch
#

Did Wyrom's post not indicate that the median was 2.3m?

still sigil
#

And a month of lumnis is 1m. I guess I should've said 40%

royal epoch
#

I've heard time and again that with Gemstones, people feel compelled to get all three monthly despite the lift that represents.

boreal bobcat
#

I have a hard time believing you can spend enough time in game to use 5x lumnis and not make more than 250k.

royal epoch
still sigil
digital fractal
#

the Citadel undead were always pretty rich for my characters

royal epoch
knotty aspen
rapid reef
#

I can go ahead and confirm that the Citadel is no longer rich. It gets drained quickly by big MA groups

mossy forge
warm agate
#

I have many concerns, if I get around to writing feedback , you can read it.

royal epoch
#

Sure.

remote egret
#

IDK if gem bounties were fixed - but at least on some characters I've started to get uncut emerald/diamond bounties again! whew!

royal epoch
#

I did roll out some changes to those.

gloomy lark
royal epoch
#

I'm pretty antsy to see how next month looks for loot from a player perspective.

#

Speaking purely for myself, I'm still glad we hit these changes mid-month so we could iterate and have clean data for February.

frozen tusk
#

Same as this month. Capped. Bring on onslaughts

remote egret
#

My empath finished his 50k resources before his new lumnis even ran out. Crazy.

Health: 239/239     Mana: 310/310     Stamina: 216/216     Spirit: 10/10
Vitality: 50,000/50,000 (Weekly)     99,724/200,000 (Total)
Suffused Vitality: 0
Covert Arts Charges: 195/200
>lumnis info
You have 5,239 points of doubled experience remaining on your Gift of Lumnis.  It is scheduled to refresh in 5 days, 15 hours and 10 minute```
gloomy lark
mossy forge
void cedar
#

I've always measured resource against RealExp(tm)..

prior to the change it took about 30k RealExp to resource cap for the week

immediately after the change, it took about 40k

now it's about 23k (which would would leave you just shy of finishing your 3x if you turbo lumnis'd)

granted, the new numbers assume online the entire time as you didn't lose anything, resourcewise, offline in the old system

sleek meadow
royal epoch
#

I am not what I would consider a bleeding edge player though.

crimson pond
#

You should try using hamstring more then.

rapid reef
dusky kernel
#

some hunting grounds just have a very nicely designed assortment of critters.. the citadel, stormpeak, and the fire giants/lava trolls/ash hags of teras come to mind

royal epoch
gloomy lark
#

can’t wait for the hoarde of hamstringing turkeys

fading flare
#

Blazestones are Tier 7 now (very rare). Scarlet despanals are too. Not sure what counts as Tier 8 around EN anymore. Shouldn't one of these be 8? I would have thought despanals

crimson pond
mossy forge
lean bolt
#

duno if this is the right place to post about the quests? i just got a quest for spectral hound says the hound is interested in creatures from the rift area so is the first step to just walk around the rift ro?

rough vault
#

Since the change, Moonsedge is dropping a lot more what used to be extremely rare must be provided for alteration gems

fading flare
mossy forge
#

Speaking of.. I still have yet to see that quest...

vital badge
#

Auchand, there is science to be done!

mossy forge
#

The kobold village needs... an expansion into Ascension I believe.

A shortsword shoots out of the water and strikes you painfully in the ribs!
You gasp in shock and collapse to the ground, stunned!
The kobold crawls out of the pond, dripping, and gives you an awkward thumbs-up.

The kobold puffs out its chest and squeaks, “I meant do that!”```
royal epoch
#

Hrm.

fading flare
frozen tusk
#

I mean if you gave the kobolds in that village 1,000 AS and did nothing else even they would kill someone occasionally.

mossy forge
#

Yea, but the secret to kobolds and goblins, is they never needed AS to get you.

sturdy ridge
#

There are level 100 kobolds in full plate in DR arena

vital badge
#

do they trip and hit themselves?

#

I was under the impression arena mobs were their own thing

fading flare
#

They do. The monkeys bop you on the head and hide and such too. The gnoll Rangers are always getting distracted foraging for acantha and sticking it in a pouch.

chilly berry
# royal epoch Did Wyrom's post not indicate that the median was 2.3m?

He did say this median was for December. I would love to understand if that deviated too far away from the typical median since it was right before the auction.

Actually, I suspect it may not be too different, because of how medians work, and be definition the median player is unlikely to have been participating in the auction. Does that reasoning make sense?

#

Also, this is starting to feel like "saturday nights with Auchand." Or "Auchand's Fireside Chats." As you become active in the evenings on the weekend and start responding to folks

mossy forge
#

This should be a thing. Between two Acantha. Featuring a random GM every other Saturday.

glossy dagger
#

Medians are tricky beasts, especially with people entering and leaving the population. I would guess December has a lower median than average between people taking a week or two off who normally play all the time and more low-activity players getting into the sample by playing one or two days. Could easily go the other way though for reasons I'm not thinking of.

royal epoch
chilly berry
digital turtle
# royal epoch I was definitely not a Dev GM when loot cap was put in place, but I disagree tha...

The argument isn't about whether I or you or anyone "agrees" if most players can or can't afford 250k. I was going on data that the dev gms presented around that time (loot cap implementation) when they said "most players cant afford a 250k raffle" (along with data). This was being presented as a fact. Based on that fact, a 250k 5x Lumnis would be too expensive for "most" players, not you, or me! 😛

I just became aware of some data Wyrom posted a few weeks ago for the month of december. Looks like at least 50% of players can afford it. Not sure about the other 50% since everyone after the median could be falling off a cliff. 🤷 Also gotta keep in mind that december could be an outlier month where people made more silver than usual because of having more time off for the holidays. (I'm assuming most people have time off at this time)

royal epoch
#

Yeah, I'd be curious to parse that data.

boreal bobcat
#

Finally some facts!

fervent hatch
#

December 2025:

    Bottom 95% average: 4,758,000
     Bottom 95% median: 2,348,462

November 2025:

    Bottom 95% average: 4,560,000
     Bottom 95% median: 2,256,796

October 2025:

    Bottom 95% average: 3,968,000
     Bottom 95% median: 1,963,033

September 2025:

    Bottom 95% average: 4,304,000
     Bottom 95% median: 2,296,725
#

While the December theory might feel correct, GS players don't really do anything away for the game during holiday months, historically. The dips are during event months.

chilly berry
#

My Hero Wyromicadamia (or something... its gonna be a thing!)

digital turtle
#

oh wait that's bottom 95%? not bottom 50%?

fast cipher
#

Next time Lucullan tells us he can't do something because of his family I'm giving him the side eye

jolly palm
#

Also… does anyone in bottom 95% hit loot cap? Or does using that as a threshold effectively remove the power Hunter folks who hit cap?

fervent hatch
#

I have4n't gone back and read the thread, but there was something mentioned here and then later emailed. That the reason silvers got out of control was that we stopped caring about silver drains when pay events came around. We still run a lot of festivals outside anything that cost SimuCoins. I don't have a lost of historical data on things before I was in charge. But Ebon Gate was the leading event that drained silver from the game. It was also a pay event, but it did better than anything (comparing directly to things like the Spitfire, Jugg, and some of the mid-sized events). All pay events also drained silvers as well, I wish I had the data for something like the WaveDancer, but I don't.

Feywrot Mire was an event I co-created and led from 2011 to 2016. Not including digging or games, EG drained about 700mil. I can't tell you the total output until 2016, but that's when it was about 5bil a month. Grawood, which was a smaller event, I think was about 50mil drained. I remember being a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed GM and going room to room to see who drained the most silver. A lot of events did between 10mil and 100mil silver back in the day. CLAIM does 7bil+ silver each Duskruin. One CLAIM wipes more silver than a decade of effort we did before.

fervent hatch
shell phoenix
#

I'm one of the poors. Selling things from the sewers at DR is the source of most of my silvers

jolly palm
#

Got it.

So account level looting information. Thank you for sharing!

jolly palm
shell phoenix
#

I will be excited to see that (once). I've never hit loop cap 😄

jolly palm
#

The excitement will wear off very quickly. I promise 😂

mossy forge
hazy osprey
#

Event boxes alone are enough to keep silvers relevant. People who say there are no use for silvers actually mean they wish silvers were more valuable than they are so they can sell them for more money. Gemstones introduced some great silver sinks. The Lumnis donations make silvers even more useful. Raffles for silver are excellent drains too. Auctions are even better.

It is possible that things still slip though. I've spent the majority of what I'll ever need to spend on gemstones. For me personally, affording 250k per week will never be a problem. If event boxes, raffles, and auctions disappear, I think you might see silver issues again. But I think the recent changes to silvers are good and things are on the right track.

fervent hatch
#

We ran CLAIM multiple times each event, we split them up more. We later combined it to 25 total entries and left it, as it hit a good sweet spot. Plus, we do between $20,000 to $25,000 in valuation of those CLAIM boxes for silver, and then about $7,500 to $9,000 in the free ones. It's a lot. Box office EG made between $12,000 to $18,000.

mellow gyro
#

DR is like 70,000 then?

hazy osprey
#

Yeah. I'm sure you know it's not apples to apples: if CLAIM hadn't been offered, you wouldn't have grossed $7500-$9000 more than you did. But I get the comparison.

I think the risk for valueless silvers is in a scenario where the supply increases so much, lowering the price that people are willing to pay to buy silvers, and we reach the point where everyone is clamoring to buy every event box in existence; this happened a few DRs ago. But I don't think that's a risk at the moment.

fading flare
fervent hatch
digital turtle
#

Are prices for boats, gemstone system, claim event boxes (not sure what else could fall in this list), likely to be adjusted? The prices set for those are pre-loot adjustment numbers. Seems fair to knock them down a little.

hazy osprey
# fervent hatch Yeah, I'm just giving a valuation on what we're offering. We still have to show...

For sure - it's an instructive number. And I'm sure if CLAIM hadn't been offered, you would've brought in slightly more cash. But I think there would be other problems that probably outweigh the extra gains.

In the past, I've heard you defend how much you've done to make silvers continue to be an important part of the economy. I know some people constantly complain they're not, but I think most of us appreciate your efforts.

fervent hatch
fading flare
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Claim boxes draining silvers is great. The new Lumnis is nice. I like both.

I also believe Wyrom has defended that (draining silvers / claim boxes) before and is doing it for the sake of the game, not for the corporate overlords.

shell phoenix
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Wyrom is definitely my favorite Gemstone IV Product Manager

broken vector
fervent hatch
hazy osprey
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I said it in the gemstones thread, but if the silvers prices decrease for all these high ticket items (everything, say, over 1m silvers), we'll just be in the same relative situation we were in before, but with smaller overall values.

fervent hatch
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We likely won't get good data until the end of March on how we did with which knobs we turned and levers we flipped.

fading flare
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Bumping the orb is a good idea, because it is less appealing to me now that it doesn't boost resource gain (and because of 5x Lumnis being cheaper than orbs in general).

tender scarab
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There are a bunch of numbers and nobody pinged me!

Interesting how much higher the average is than the median. Puts into better perspective why changes like the locksmith pool fees and gem values hit everybody.