[Official] Loot and Experience Changes

[finite trench]

You gotta make as many kneejerk decisions as you can now because you won’t be able to after things get fixed

[tawny sierra]

We’re just a couple of tweaks away from acceptance. Hang in there!

[ashen carbon]

Well, considering the responses have been almost nil on the thing that is most important to me, and comment from you has made it sound like my style of play is unaccaptable, I need to move to the style of play that is acceptable. Resource Generation. I have to edit my original post now, or wait 5 minutes. Nothing says open communication like putting a 5 minute timer out there. @split hamlet Bro, logged in resources is unacceptable at this point.

@royal epoch oh cute, a veiled threat, because that certainly helps.

You said that if you knew people were playing like me you would have been 'vehemently against' it from the start.

[royal epoch]

What was that thing?

[split hamlet]

Logged out resource gains. So, technically I think he meant his style of not-play.

The 30 minutes was for me, not you @ashen carbon

[royal epoch]

glances at the 30-minute timer button.

[chilly berry]

FINE I'll say something positive.

It takes just as long (almost) to burn through the 5x lumnis thing as it does to fill the resource bucket (like 42,000 resource I think at the end of my lumnis)

And that much exp is AWESOME. I got 2 levels this week in my 90s on some alts I've been working on for a while now. Its great. (I was really close to 1 level, then lumnis blew through another).

The experience changes are off the chain.

[royal epoch]

To be clear, I said I did not understand your playstyle, not that it was unacceptable or that I have a vote on it.

[royal epoch]

They feel good post-cap, too, for what it's worth.

Also, @ashen carbon, I am not spoiling for a fight, nor can I be provoked into one. I'm here to help.

Yes, I would have been vehemently against it, but I don't make those decisions, as I made very clear.

[ashen carbon]

Right, so don't criticize my kneejerk reaction. No one else is bothering to talk to us about it. I gotta plan long term, that means either MA or quit. I love how the 'fixes' are iterative, but the breaks happen immediately. @split hamlet RIght, I'm hostile, because I'm the one being criticized for my kneejerk reaction. Taken that way, it certainly feels like the hostility is pointed at me.

[royal epoch]

I just want people to be aware that we--as Wyrom pointed out from the start--are looking at effects and implementation iteratively.

[tawny sierra]

Will white knight for loot.

[split hamlet]

Taken another way, he could simply be asking for time while they discuss things in the background. The person who is making these decisions no longer participates in discord conversations. Probably because of hostilities like this. The only way to win, is simply not to play(participate in conversations).

Edit for @ashen carbon. I value personal responsibility for actions. And woe is me, I'm a victim has no value to me. I don't think Auchand was criticizing you on something you're emotionally charged by.

[royal epoch]

I'm not even sure that's 100% fair. I'm certainly more willing to wade in because I generally have a different relationship with you folks.

[chilly berry]

They do. Even better at cap. Lucullan is capped and my main and I solo hunt him. He was loot capped at the start of the change. You know how nice it is to have like 50 TPs available at the end of the day? I rubbed an indigo orb when my 5x started.

I'm a also degenerate who has had 3 accounts for ages. My alts on those accounts are in their 50s. I can't WAIT to run those guys up the ladder.

I did the math, and while it would take substantial playtime, running through tutelage + 5x lumnis each week you can take a new character to cap in like 9 months. Faster if you add a brooch. I think if I used it on my account with the big brooch I could cap in 6 months. That's shattered level timelines.

[frozen tusk]

This whole episode is a delaying tactic so Auchand doesn't have to release more boss monsters and finally reveal what's behind the door in Moonsedge Castle.

Well played sir. Well played.

[blazing violet]

I totally understand the thought process behind iterative changes, but the longer the process goes, the less these decisions can really be called kneejerk. Not having fun is just not having fun.

[fast cipher]

Brooches might be one of the worst dollar spends in the game compared to the lumnis donate/tutelage the cost per exp is wild. Sure you can do both but starting a brooch today is a rough unless you just don't care about cost.

[sturdy ridge]

One more thing that may have been mentioned regarding Resources.

Once every 6 months you can use a lumnis reset. I times that for DR so I could get 100k resources rather quickly during Duskruin for my services by stacking some saved orbs, etc

That's something else I'm going to miss out on with slowmide

[tawny sierra]

Doing just bounties on lumnis I think I’ll be around 130ish TPs before I’m back to 1x which feels like much better progression post cap.

[ashen carbon]

I wasn't trying to provide value to you. You were responding to me. If you don't find value in my comments, you don't have to engage with them.

[frozen tusk]

Pretty much everyone has had their say at this point and then some.

I honestly don't know how some folks manage to stay mad for days on end. I sure as heck can't. I'm in sarcasm and witty remarks mode.

[marble haven]

Let's keep the focus on discussing the changes and not critiquing the methods, tone, or value of other people's feedback.

[shell phoenix]

Speaking as somebody who works for a largeish game company but has no insight into what simu does behind the scenes... things take time. The change took place right before a long weekend. There's more to it than just listening to the most vocal part of the player base. They're likely collecting mass data in addition to player sentiment and trying to decide what options are available that can address our biggest concerns while still accomplishing most of the goals they set out with.

That said, after 3 days of testing out (some) of the new changes and still only being 33k/50k devotion... not a big fan of the resource change. I don't so much mind the need to be online bit, but it feels so incredibly slow now that I can't use xp boosts to speed it up. Loot hasn't really affected me since I've never hit loot cap in my life.

[chilly berry]

I plan on holding this comment against you and staying mad at you for days over this. DAYS I TELL YOU! DAYS!

[digital turtle]

Looking forward to some tweaks and maybe some more transparency on what the intent of the changes is. Boosted Lumnis is great and fun but by dev's own admission from not too long ago (loot cap and raffle discussion data presented), most players cannot afford it so it doesn't make 100 more accessible. It creates a new problem in the form of an exp gap on top of the wealth gap that the loot changes are not addressing at all (flat taxes hitting everyone equally and arguably hurting the lower earners the most by pricing them out of participating in the economy along with making it harder for them and everyone to earn resources which is another big wealth contributor).

[shell phoenix]

I would also gladly trade a lower loot cap for the removal of SMRv2 from the game 😄

[split hamlet]

I had a nightmare I wasn't going to be able to make silvers anymore and I would be poor.

[ashen carbon]

gem cleanup is going well, though. I had no idea how much money I had socked away

[fast cipher]

How does it add to the wealth gap if people who opt in are draining the silver and those who don't aren't? Lumnis doesn't boost loot so far as I know. But yea different worlds for exp gains.

I'm starting to enjoy that @finite trench has to answer for all my posts

[chilly berry]

~~Some feedback, not sure if it made it on the list or not:

I think Kontii mentioned this.... somewhere...? but it looks like all fast exp boosts got zeroed out? I never use any of my boosts... like ever... because I forget they exist. I have zero of these. Big fat goose egg.

Why did that happen?~~

Redacted because I don't know how to play gemstone.

[boreal bobcat]

Fast Exp. Absorption Boosts: 2

I only have them because I purchased them at Rumor Woods. Paying accounts don't generate them.

[south trail]

1 question and 1 suggestion.
**Question: **Seems like more than a few people are hitting the 10m loot cap (and some feeling it's hitting sooner than 10m), how does management see those people spending the remaining 1, 2 or 3 weeks of the month? Curb game play? Genuinely asking.
**Suggestion: **Rolling out big changes simultaneously is asking for big responses. Could've started with the loot cap, give it a month or two, move on to resources, then hit the lockpick pool. Advance communication is also very helpful - could've avoided all the forseeable problems like gem and skin values vs. totems and chrisms, box weight vs. small races, etc. Those kinds of oversights detract from credibility.

[tawny sierra]

I think they deserve some snark after breaking so many long standing mechanics and saying we’re making iterative changes after what essentially looks like lying in the changelog. I’m not mad though.

[digital turtle]

Mine was about figuring out how could I retire early so I could play more GS and not be poor!
@finite trench I mean it creates another problem (exp gap) on top of there already being a wealth gap (and make sure to point out that the changes don't address the wealth gap either :P)

[split hamlet]

There will always be people with more and people with less.

I wish they had gone with a different implementation for capping loot. Where the reduction was done at the pawnshop or gemshop, instead of via LOOT/Searching for treasure.

That way it still felt like you were gaining treasure, because you would still be finding lots of treasure, but the treasure would just gradually sell for less and less at the gemshop/pawnshop. This would help it stretch out throughout an entire month.

I think it would "feel" better than what we currently have, where it all just goes away to nothing.

[boreal bobcat]

Just imagine next month when you aren't instantly lootcapped ...

[finite trench]

wow alastir was right they should drastically increase the timer

[flat tusk]

Is anyone who doesn't have a massive hoard of gem stocked up having a problem with gem bounties?

I feel like I was assigned a gem from the Adventurer's Guild that is outside of my current loot table. This was a bounty that was assigned after the changes happened. If anything I feel like this gem might be too low for me? (Yellow Zircons, the gems that I'm getting are all worth more than that).

[finite trench]

it's really too bad glave got banned for all the homophobia because this is a point he raised at wearisome length, because he was hitting the old cap early in the month (to give some perspective on how hardcore grinders play this game). I think the answer we gave him was that you should do whatever you want except for get loot. in theory there are lots of other things to do in the game.

@flat tusk gem bounties are quite difficult to get done at the best of times, but if you are getting gems of too high a tier, you unironically probably should find a mob with worse loot. getting a gem bounty guarantees that you could get that gem off SOME enemy nearby (without loot cap) but it doesn't mean the enemies you actually usually kill will drop them, you need to figure out who had bad enough loot to drop yellow zircons. yes, this is why people hoard gems rather than actually do gem bounties the "intended" way.

[tawny sierra]

Im removing them now but I’m def hard capped. Before the change there were a few gem bounties I would really only get from boxes. I might just ignore these all together from now on

[royal epoch]

I think there are things to do after hitting loot cap, but I'd love to expand that list. Loot capping does require a not-insignificant amount of play time. I'm curious if any of those people are playing manually for that whole time (not that it matters, but as a point of curiosity.)

Yes, big changes do solicit big responses. I think our behavior is informed by a few factors: we all play and love the game and want to see it be healthy and great, for one. But we also have had so many of the situations I pointed out upthread, where pre-hysteria on changes killed some really good things for GS, that I just don't see us going back to a more measured approach on things we know are likely to be unpopular.

I think everyone on Dev prefers to make changes that are positive for the player base (Gemstones, Onslaughts, etc.) and require no 'take' coupled with their 'give.'

The primary thrust of these changes was one that we felt was necessary to address a problem, and I think we knew it was going to be painful on both sides from the start.

[south trail]

Fair answer. Personally I'm not a fan of the idea of there being a "correct" or intended way to enjoy playing the game. A solution that worked for both the casuals and grinders alike would've been ideal. Perhaps a more progressive loot cap curve. 0-1m @ 150%, 0-2m @ 125%, 3-10m @ 100%, 10-15m @ 50%, 15m+ @ 20%? Like lumnis

[finite trench]

we should explicitly not have a solution that works for grinders, the purpose of the loot cap is to uncompromisingly constrain grinders so they stop grinding so much

[slate bluff]

You could probably get similar results spamming major loot boost, what else you going to use them for now...

[tawny sierra]

I suggested a similar idea about multiple softcaps. The issue being there stated goal for the loot nerf was to address the issue where 27% of the loot went to 5% of the players.

Cutting loot for everyone across the board won’t fix player behavior. If hours 0-60* generate loot at the same rate the disparity will likely increase.

[fast cipher]

Fix player behavior is very Tikba coded. If you want to grind then grind there's nothing wrong with it you'll just make 1% loot at some point

[timber kraken]

Just as a data point, I am hard capped this month and I do zero script hunting.

[royal epoch]

How much would you say you play daily?

[frosty sail]

yes 1% is hilarious i just skip all the gem bounties now

[south trail]

I don't think it's the grinding that's the problem, it was the silver generation. I say let people grind if they enjoy it. Give them a "reward" for their effort so they can continue to enjoy it. Doesn't have to be silver. maybe a free gemstone reroll at x creatures killed? I have no idea, but something, anything is better than saying "you're playing wrong, stop it". My 2c.

[boreal bobcat]

How much silver have you made this month Korpacz? I assume over 15m cause you were instantly hard capped with the changes huh? It took you half the month to get to that point before loot was cut into 1/3rd what it was. So it would stand to reason that next month you will accumulate that wealth at 1/3rd the pace no? Even if you double your efforts and get it up to 1/2 the pace you're still good since it took you half the month to get where you are.

[finite trench]

As an even more significant example of the problem, one character earned more than the bottom 60% of all characters combined. This activity is detrimental to the gaming environment and causes problems for players who are otherwise not trying to abuse the system for personal gain. It's also a significant issue that causes silver value to be pointless for some characters while others are barely earning any. When we try to price items and services to be worthwhile, we have to factor in both groups and as shown with the raffle prices at the last Ebon Gate, it often causes us to have to unfairly penalize the players that are not making 100s of million silver each month.

this is the context behind the original implementation of the loot cap. people weren't making like a little bit more than the hard cap. they were making like ten times the old hard cap per month, and more than half the playerbase put together. they weren't playing 60 hours a month, they were probably playing that much a week. (your guess is as good as mine as to how a human could sustain that much nonstop hunting 🤔 )

this isn't good for the game and it isn't good for the players, especially the players actually doing it. it's important to set firm boundaries. this is true for adolescents and for gemstone players.

@fast cipher I basically agree except we should give them 1% less loot. they'll barely notice the difference

[tawny sierra]

Im not making a comment about trying to fix player behavior. Im stating that it exists and the changes wont reach the goal because it cant.

[royal epoch]

Ideally, I would like to see players have more to do mechanically in GS than just hunt.

And I don't mean Spirit Beasts. Although.

[finite trench]

we can also do alchemy!

[fast cipher]

You found a way to get me to log off

[royal epoch]

If alchemy were fun and rewarding, sure.

[boreal bobcat]

Give me other ways to fill my head with experience and I'll do it!
Maybe toss some klocks in 😁

[south trail]

I support curbing that kind of discrepancy. I obviously don't have more data than the devs, (full disclosure, I have zero data), but that seems a bit far fetched and possibly misleading. How many alts, f2p, logged in 1/x month, etc. are they including in the 60% and how is the income of that one person counted? Is it solely hunting, or does that include services, lockpicking, all of that persons alts, etc?

[royal epoch]

It is generally neither.

[shell phoenix]

experience for fishing and farming

[wispy forum]

i've actually been musing about this all day - outside of things like the silver auction - what harm does someone having 50 billion silvers versus someone having 1m do to the game?

Silver auctions put our silver bank accounts in direct competition with one another, but other things don't. Raffles are usually entry bound, not cost bound, and there is no reason to try to use them as a silver sink anyway, they are designed to be an equalizer between weatlh and opportunity. WPS, just jack up the % on high number of services (over 30 maybe?) in a particular window so some astronomical weight. Services and other things players sell on the secondary market is by choice, and the price and currency exchange rate is determined by the market. And most secondary market offerings and power come from alternate currency events like DR and event currecny, not silvers or loot drops.

If anything maybe we could find some exciting super high end luxury items sold by the game for silvers that extreme high end silver earners could chase if they wanted, but aren't considered game breaking or required to play, Aspirational silver goals.

Am I crazy here? Aren't silver auctions really the only advantage we are giving to high wealth players over the rest of the community?

[south trail]

Some kind of mini-arena with monthly challenges and fluff loot (title, pins, etc.). solo, team of 3, team of 5. with leaderboards. max 1 win/year. people love the DR arena. bring something like that into daily play. Or an obstacle course type thing people can run.

[tawny sierra]

exp and loot for wishcasting at GMs?

[fast cipher]

Its kind of answered in his post just above it creates issues in how things are priced in the game and sets things out of reach for a lot of people.

[ashen carbon]

Is anything truly of value in the game actually priced in silver? I have to edit because respones and 5 minutes @finite trench I didn't mean USD at all, I wasn't thinking of RMT, I generally don't. I was talking about all the other ticket types they introduce to the game. I still haven't seen anything compelling in the arguments. if 250k is too much for Lumnis, I don't think this person is worried about lootcap.

[boreal bobcat]

Depends on what you consider valuable.

Wps, enhancive recharging, event boxes, raffles, merchants, osa off the top of my head.

[wispy forum]

So dont price around the top earner - price for the median and find other ways to drain silvers from the top account - we both pay the same for a gallon of milk, for some people it will be a larger portion of their pocket book than others; we wouldn't raise the price of milk to get more money from the people the price affects less

I read the quoted post - i don't agree, i am questiong its merits and offering alternatives!

@ashen carbon silver auction, wps, raffle tickets, accepted currency on the secondary market, gemstone rerolling now i think? and that's about all i can think of....

edit: oh and the new xp stuff

[finite trench]

@south trail I don't have any of that data, that stuff is from an estild post in 2020. I would just note that a very consistent pattern in gemstone discourse is "we want to see the GM's data" followed by seeing the data followed by "I don't believe this data, I have a bunch of questions about it." At a certain point the issue is about trust, not data quality, and trust is a problem that can't be solved with more numbers.

@wispy forum Estild basically said that it creates a big jump in price. I would say, in response to your post, that saying "the prices are determined by the market" is the whole problem. part of the complaints people had about gemstones, very rapidly, was that it became clear that gemstones of quality they would actually want to use would be selling for prices in the hundreds of millions of silvers, meaning that only a very small population of players would really have access to them (and, moreover, the gemstones would be auctioned, which really further limits it to a very small group of maybe a dozen players with near-infinite bankrolls). throwing everything to the whims of the market is the same as just saying that everything good in the game belongs to the people who grind the most silver. look around you, because that's the reality of gemstone allocation.

of course, a notable number of items are, as nessu might be alluding to, priced not in in-game currency at all but in USD, despite that being against the rules. but the players farming the most silver are also selling the most silver for USD (which isn't good for the game either), so they have the advantage there too.

[fast cipher]

I mean we just had someone saying 250k was too much for extra exp and people can't afford it so I guess it depends? But I think the better answer is we'll have to wait and see. I think I recall wyrom saying there are things they wanted to do but couldn't until they got the faucet under control which is the whole point of this.

[split hamlet]

I do think fishing should provide experience for catches. Especially since it costs money out of my loot cap total!

[wispy forum]

@finite trench "meaning that only a very small population of players would really have access to them" - unless you were the one who found it, now you just hit that jackpot, that's a pretty awesome drop you jsut found! And that's available to anyone who can hunt in ascension, not just the silver rich. And you don't need to be silver rich to hunt ascension. Maybe DR rich though....

The secondary market accepts currency exchanges as well, silver just ends up being the medium we generally agree to use, and it's value fluctuates through the year; when DR is running, the two often approach parity.

[mystic vale]

I feel like the GM's are using this exp change as an opportunity to close a loophole. They have stated several times that they wanted resource gain tied to activity, so I don't see them reinstating offline resource gain in anything resembling the old system.

It does still seem weird to me that this was never mentioned as a problem, though. I wonder if the offline resource accumulation nerf was just a happy accident and they just said "you know what, that WAS a problem, we didn't really know about it but we're glad we fixed it" haha

[flat tusk]

At this point in time, I personally find the whole silver reduction thing to be kind of silly. Inflation is bad in the real world because when prices get too high people are forced out of their homes and they starve to death. For a game like this, the value of the numbers is pretty arbitrary.

However, if this means changing some of the interesting event merchants to pricing their inventory in silver again, I will take back what I say above 100%.

[tender scarab]

I'll be extremely curious to see what they do with Duskruin CLAIM boxes next month given the shorter supply of silver and new competition for exp gains making the traditional blue orbs not look nearly as good.

[frozen tusk]

It aint hunting that makes you loot cap. It's the scripted selling. I applaud anyone that actually sits there and manually deals with all of the treasure.

The only thing that's exciting is something the pawnshop won't buy because maybe it's a sweet enhancive. But then I have to find a bard to sing to it which is annoying.

[split hamlet]

I've always felt the orbs in the claims were not worth. I just want entries for silver! Or did. I'm going to be Smaug now sitting on his horde until a dwarf comes to slay me.

[finite trench]

yes, that was basically what I thought when gemstones launched -- oh, good, for me this will represent a big silver transfer whenever I find a gemstone. and it does, a little. but the actual process in play is that everybody is grubbing in the dirt so six multi accounters can have more flares in exchange for an amount of silver that is a pittance to them. that is not a fun experience for people, it's actually just a job. a badly paying job.

saying that people can use alternate currencies is just another way of saying they can use USD, but with the added possibility of arbitrage for the people who do have large quantities of capital in silver form, so that they can continue to get richer without effort.

[old crystal]

I still like the idea of adding breakage in correctly as a silver drain as a trade off on the locksmith pool.

[fast cipher]

Sure but they also didn't feel like they could implement something that costs 1/15th of the lootcap when it would have been 1/35th. When numbers become more reasonable it seems like they feel they can start implementing things at more accessible levels. If the loot cap remained 35m and implemented lumnis donate it would have been 583k scaled up and the people making the median 4m who might be interested today might have felt priced out missing some of the target audience. These are all just assumptions based on what I've read though so maybe I'm wrong.

[ashen carbon]

They messaged lumnis as 'to help hit cap' Which means it was meant to be used by people who are no where near that level yet. They could have just as easily impleneted it for below lvl 100 the say way they did for below lvl 20, then made it more expensive as someone has more base and asc exp. Loot cap has no bearing on that.

That means for a lvl 50, it would be 100k/week, not 250k/week. If they really wanted people to push to cap, that's what they'd have done.

In fact, if they are really talking about reviewing and making changes, that's exactly what they should do. Base the non-cap price off level of character, with a surcharge if they have more than milestone asc points. Cap Lumnis costs 200k, and as more exp is gained, it goes higher

[fast cipher]

The messaged it as "To modernize progression and make the journey to level 100 more accessible" not just make you move to 100 faster. You can also loot cap well below the cap.

[chilly berry]

~~If loot stays generally this far surpressed from a value perspective, is there any way we can lobby to take a look at herb prices?

Relative to the amount of loot I'm bringing back in a hunt, many times I'm losing money (not on luc, on a lower level guy), like 1,500 silver and 2,000 silver in wounds.

Edit: "Find and empath!"

Sure, but that doesn't always work when you don't live in IMT or WL~~

This is a bad suggestion. I’ll just learn how to play the game.

[ashen carbon]

New way to bypass lootcap, forage and sell at reduced rates. Time to open my shop. Just gotta make sure I get 5 good forages in before a pulse hits. Side note, just found a kid in Darkstone. He didn't have a box on him, though, so I'm guessing they didn't implement Urchin Boxes yet. @chilly berry I actually forage to refill my herb kit all the time. It has a distiller on it, so. Only time I buy herbs is when I'm lazy.

[boreal bobcat]

You also get 2 exp per forage at 0. If you're good enough can forage your way to resource cap!

[visual oar]

Does the new farm thing give exp? Farm your way to resource cap. One potato at a time.

[chilly berry]

I wonder how long it would take to forage a fully stocked herb kit... Hmm.

Actually foraging for the common ones makes a lot of sense now.

[fast cipher]

Wait your low level can afford an herb kit? sympathy revoked

[ashen carbon]

It's called DR giftbox. I scraped enough together for that and event box and then used that in conjunction with my first enchanting sales to get it. You know, the whole me raging about resources again...... I train in it and I have a mage rechargeable nature's bounty. I never turn down an herb bounty. They're so easy.

[boreal bobcat]

As a ranger it doesn't take too long. Grab you one of the old auto bundlers and run ;autoforage! Use to do it in the landing. Actually, it works better without the bundler.

[chilly berry]

I'm mixing my metaphors. The first question lead me to wonder how long it would take Luc (the ranger) to fill the herb kit if I did it all manually. Only mushrooms exist in the hive though, so I have to go get fresh air in order to do it. Back to the landing with me tomorrow!

Also, thanks @boreal bobcat I'll give it a go. Maybe just spend a day foraging and to the math on how much silver that just saved me.

[south trail]

I bet there are a ton of mechanical things to do already in the game that people either don't know exist or are too burned out from searching through wiki pages to look into, like spirit animals, fishing, crafting, etc. I think it'd be a nice distraction for people if someone in management took the time to create a comprehensive of things players can discover and enjoy. It's content that already exists but feels new because people don't know it exists. Similarly, with 35 years of lore, it'd be nice to have it condensed and accessible. I'm sure that'd promote RP and interest. Find what people gravitate towards, and use it to drain silver by giving the hoi polloi something to enjoy. win-win

[mental compass]

What does one tend to use for foraging Autoforage?

[chilly berry]

If I’m going for something specific I still use betazzherb.

[shell phoenix]

betazzherb2

[visual oar]

ebounty also has a forage function

[blazing violet]

Prior to the change, I used to get gem bounties for uncut diamonds or uncut emeralds some significant percentage of the time. Since the change, I've noticed that I'm getting bounties for all kinds of other gems that I almost never got bounties for previously. My sample size is pretty small so far so it's not clear that it's anything other than dumb luck, but it feels like a positive change to me.

[south trail]

I think I heard someone say skinning was a waste of loot cap. My warmage has zero FA and zero survival. If I skin something and make a horrible pelt I sell for 10 silver. Am I losing 200 silver from my loot cap if it had a potentially max value of 200 if skinned properly?

[flat tusk]

Yeah, I think lower level characters are all getting less valuable gems and the gem bounties have been adjusted accordingly. I went from uncut emeralds to yellow zircons, as noted above.

[blazing violet]

My experience is on a double-capped character.

[wispy forum]

"saying that people can use alternate currencies is just another way of saying they can use USD, but with the added possibility of arbitrage for the people who do have large quantities of capital in silver form, so that they can continue to get richer without effort."

but this is our world since event currency is sold for usd right? like im not saying it's right or wrong, but, simu sells us items for usd, and we in game exchange those items with silver, so those currencies end up being interchangeable practically speaking right? and if the secondary market chose to use Bloodscrip only to exchange their goods and services instead of silvers, we could choose to do that as well

[wispy forum]

i think your logic is spot on here and that is why they did it

I also don't think that's the correct approach for them to take

A silver drain is not going to hit all players equally, because all players are not equal. Don't make a feature you want to give to the entire player base and price it as a drain for silvers from the top earners. You will see feedback exactly like you have seen in this thread, people will feel cheated out of the opportunity. Instead, make a drain that is targeted at the top earners specifically, and can be aspirational for lower wealth folks. They can then choose to engage with it or not, feeling accomplished if they decide to build up their resources to acquire it, but not cheated if they choose to ignore the aspiration.

Some examples I brainstormed earlier:
-a special title that can only be unlocked with a huge amount of silvers, like legit 2b or something (prestige title)
-+1 CS or 2AS 2b per as many times as you want (power)
-a pet you can only buy with tons of silvers (fluff)
-a property somewhere you can only get with silvers (housing)

this are just super high priced end game chases that are completely optional

prolly lots of other, better ideas with people who are more familiar with all the stuff you can get in this game and it's value - but this is the general idea

@vital badge this requires removing the loot cap entirely, with loot being capped, you can't have mega end game silver chases

[vital badge]

The silver housing thing is a premium perk, and not many folks use it.

[wispy forum]

the current approach is to remove the wealth gap by lowering the amount a player can earn - among other issues, as folks have pointed out, this encourages MA, as a way to get around the loot cap per account for increased earnings

i am suggesting instead, you allow the wealth gap and instead make offerings that appeal to different demographics rather than trying to make one size fit all

yea i don't know anything about houses so maybe that's not one people would want /shrug - the goal here is to make high silver cost aspirational goals that all players would be willing to chase, but wouldn't be upset if they couldn't acquire - can you think of some other ideas that might fit this bill? what's some cool stuff you would buy if you had tons of extra silvers?

[chilly tulip]

How high can you get your spirit TD?

[vital badge]

the larger issue with the silver housing market is the houses aren't permanent installations. They roll out when you're there, and then roll up when you leave. Nor can they have perks like workshops and whatnot.

One thing austerity measures help with in-game is lowering the ceiling for the conversion rate of silvers. For instance, the things that might have cost 200-300m might cost 40% less than before.

Granted, your personal available pile of wealth might not be able to afford that price either, but it does drive the market down.

To give another example of controlled inflation that has similar inflection points to GS.

WoW has their RMT token that's a flat cost in in-game currency. They can be bought and sold via the in-game market. Blizzard sets the price, but it's market adjusted.

When they went active, you could buy them for 40k, their real world cost remains the same. Today, they are worth about 275k. And what you can purchase with that 275k has gone way down from previous iterations of the game.

[split hamlet]

All of the things you're brainstorming are what Auctions are for.

[wispy forum]

silver auctions pit your wealth against other players and emphasize the wealth gap, which creates the potential for friction - in fact, as i've mentioned in several posts, silver auctions are one of, if not the ONLY reason i can actually think of for why it actually matters if someone has more silvers than you - and thus yes, in this model we would need to carefully consider how we do them

or like make explicit versions of the auction (kind of like what we already do) where it is clear, this auction is for the mega wealthy, and that's ok if you can't compete, it's still fun (like how we did 1 win per account on dday 1 and unlimited day 2)

but this only works as long as people don't feel like they are missing out on things necessary to play the game or that are meant for everyone

[split hamlet]

Wyrom doesn't like to do the "mega wealthy" auctions so that more people can participate. This is probably a good thing even if I personally would like the mega wealthy only auctions. Like, no admission to auction unless you have 9 digits.

People are going to miss out on things. It's okay.

[wispy forum]

i think we're effectively saying the same thing here, it's ok for folks to miss out on certain things if they are presented right and do not feel mandaotry or necessary

[dusky kernel]

You can deduct broken lockpicks only if you spend at least 4 hours per week in the pool

[split girder]

The resource changes are brutal and discouraging. Strong why even bother vibes. I think staff should revert that change. Since that's unlikely to happen it should allow for offline gain for some amount of time before petering out.

The change will not increase my participation in the marketplace. I won't be buying others' resources as a result of the changes. I also already wasn't selling mine. I just simply won't participate.

I'm still at the position that the changes rolled out were shortsighted for casual players and do not serve to benefit us.

[valid orbit]

Just dropping this here for reference. Hopefully my meaning is not lost.
"A regressive tax takes a larger percentage of income from low-income earners than from high-income earners, even if the tax rate is flat, because lower-income households spend a greater portion of their earnings on taxed goods and services, making the burden disproportionately heavier on them."

[warm agate]

I hunt manually 100% of the time. Is that what you mean? I do use loot room/ and ;go2. I also type out opening/boxes and when I used the loot pool dropping off and retrieving boxes, and selling everything to the pawn. Basically I type out everything.

[mental dock]

Please stop sniping at one another. I have removed posts.

[split hamlet]

While I agree in principal... I would also want the tax loopholes to pay no taxes! Let me depreciate my high end purchases.

(I don't think it applies well to a game environment.)

On a side note, something I'm just starting to realize, I feel like I want to play now in several different ways in order to maximize all the things.

I want to fry and then drain to 0 for resources.
I want to never-stop-hunting for gemstones.
And I want to hunt poorish things so that I don't immediately loot cap, and to avoid the 500lb boxes in areas with bad entrance/exit mechanics.

[chilly berry]

Similarly, agree.

This has presented new strategies for playing the game. Example from last night; foraging for herbs makes financial sense now.

I’ve stopped using the pool as of last night, and started stashing boxes on an alt (pretty sure this was the original reason for alts) until a locksmith becomes available.

Wondering what other ways I’ll be finding to play in the next few days

[warm agate]

I’ve been stashing boxes too. You could always start using Larton, for giggles.

[chilly tulip]

This game suddenly has many of us playing like it's the Great Depression and people are spinning it as a positive, lol.

[vital badge]

that's an excellent point, finding alternative ways to save costs are going to follow these changes as silvers might become more scarce.

[chilly berry]

You leave me and my Victory Garden alone! (I know this was a WWII thing, but WWII was still post-depression era)

[chilly tulip]

There's really never been a better time to delete gem bounties. A bounty you just can't do once you loot cap (unless you set up an elaborate hoarding mechanism), which many more people are going to be doing now.

[dusky kernel]

I don't have to worry about selling services anymore! 😂

[sleek meadow]

And drinking and making cheese

[warm agate]

I’m playing like it’s the year 2000, honestly I think I have always been.

[untold hedge]

funny..I have an alt who is picking up Hammer's of Kai again in the Citadel for extra silver when he hunts...

[chilly berry]

Time to go grab all the chain main from hobgoblins!

[dusky kernel]

Now I am in the "fun" part of my week where I burnt through my 5x lumnis but still have 10 hours of resource to sit through. The game really is better off without this grit in the world

[chilly tulip]

I'm down to 1m/10 dust trying to sell Nidalstones. Someone had to do it first. Also I think grit doesn't exist to most players as it is so it kind of isn't in the world. Nothing of value was lost.

[minor falcon]

every time I check the pool there is no work for me 🙁 RIP Picking pool

[normal drum]

I’ve been putting my boxes in the pool still. But I’m only tipping 1 percent. For science. So far, the boxes have been getting done quickly.

[chilly tulip]

I refer you to the case of "Beggars vs Choosers"

[minor falcon]

I mean you can get away with tipping 1 silver right now. But if you can just do 2 silvers so it's an even number. I atleast like seeing even numbers in GS. It's going to get picked. That's where we are right now. 🤣

[fierce lantern]

an even prime number?! That's as common as an Envoy

[sleek meadow]

The pool should just set the price then give the picker 25% of that. Right now it feels like third world child labor.

[orchid dock]

I know it's asking a lot, but if you can go as high as 9. Psychology shows people like seeing things end in a 9.

[normal drum]

Maybe the loot restructuring worked so well, 9 silvers is a lot of money now. And folks are earning a lot. We don’t really know yet.

[devout bobcat]

I really love that you have taken up this cause. If I ever get bunt out on the grind (which frankly, seems likely), it would be nice to have alternate ways to earn a mediocre amount of exp and maybe some silvers / something useful.

[devout island]

Can I offer a suggestion for the F2P people who are actually trying to play/learn this game...
(there are newbies actually, and some returning from long ago)

put them in an area that has mobs level from 1 to 15, and give them no restrictions other the help and realm ESP channels and once they attain level 20 they can go through a portal to the real Elanthian world if they choose to be prime/premium.

It's hard to understand the game with the handcuffs currently on them.

[dusky kernel]

Cash'Lo'Nae's Tutelage will always and forever be Cash'Lo'Nae's tutelage, you can kill my characters name but you will never kill his spirit

[split hamlet]

I heard those are overrated. You decide which I'm talking of!

[chilly berry]

Okay that’s pretty clever.

[dusky kernel]

Too clever, there "were complaints." Rather than change his name I will just never log him in again. What is dead may never die

[wary nebula]

Oh that’s funny. I laughed at your messages in game. I thought it was clever

[split hamlet]

In some ways, these changes do offer a chance for relaxation and exploration of new systems. I think if fishing offered experience, I would be way more tempted to spend a significant amount of time doing it.

Experience is the only gain that you can always do, and currently, only from hunting (primarily). Since fishing has a cost to it, give us some experience for doing it! That way we have an option to not always hunt hunt hunt, but still progress.

[devout bobcat]

Yeah I really don't hate that resource gain is decoupled from the exp absorption rate, because you're right that does give us more freedom and flexibility. I can be anywhere doing anything and still earn resource points as long as I'm clear or above.

[dusky kernel]

you can be anywhere.. except on an alt or with your family/friends/cat

[brazen salmon]

I mean, maybe you're on to something... that the decoupling could lead to exp being found in other sources. That kind of feels like a pipe dream, though.

[old cedar]

and the whole "So long as you're getting at least 10xp per pulse..."

[timber kraken]

Probably 3-4 hours on average

[rough vault]

If the guild system was blown up and reconceptualized to align with player resources, it could be the pathway toward complete decoupling of experience gain from resource accumulation.

[dusky kernel]

Nyxus can whip it up in a weekend nbd

[rough vault]

The same mechanics as used in Adventure Guild to assign tasks could be copied and aligned with professional chores to earn resources. Yes, it probably takes a year to do to add color and make it nice, but the basic concept is already there.

[dry sedge]

I had a sack full of orb gems at the old values and was trying to make chrisms. The gems no longer say orbs but rather indicate, You sense the item has some sort of magic resistance.

Reply to Alastir - Yeah I was sitting on a whole sack for a solid month and just now going through them and they're all showing magic resistant.

As you recall your song, you feel a faint resonating vibration from the star-of-Tamzyrr diamond in your hand, and you learn something about it...

It is a small item, under a pound.
It is estimated to be worth about 5,000 silvers.
It is magic resistant.
It has a permanently unlocked loresong by you.

As you recall your song, you feel a faint resonating vibration from the uncut diamond in your hand, and you learn something about it...

It is a small item, under a pound.
It is estimated to be worth about 5,500 silvers.
It is magic resistant.
It has a permanently unlocked loresong by you.

Based on observations, it seems to be anything with a noun involving diamond or emerald.

[split hamlet]

From the pitch of the vibration you determine that the purpose of the core is as a gem of some kind.  As you sing, the core seems to resonate with your voice, and you feel it trying to draw power from you.

My stored orb gems are still orb gems.

[valid orbit]

Progressive pool fees based on number of boxes put in for a week. Progressive wait times for pickers based on number of boxes picked for the week. The current design that hammers the little guys is rough.

[royal epoch]

That is what I meant, yes.

[wintry shard]

Cause grinding is bad, umkay!?

[dusky kernel]

I simply do not believe that offline resource gain was a problem anyone raised. If it was, it would have gotten the same measured and detailed approach and treatment that the loot cap did (explaining what the issue is, how big it is, where it came from, and why it needs to change for the good of the game). It's simply too late to make that argument now, not that you (general dev you) would anyway. Once again trust is eroded, expectations are lowered, and multi-accounters extend their power.

[devout island]

Why are we worried about MA's they have and will always exist.

[split girder]

Whole lot of punishment for everyone instead of dealing with folks who are working outside of the design boundaries of the game.

[split hamlet]

But if I blame the other guy, I for sure can't be blamed myself!

[old cedar]

Since we're back on resources..... I'd have no objection if it was one or the other of the changes... No offline gain, but still tied to XP. Okay, fast enough not to make a huge difference. Offline gain, but not tied to XP (beyond 10/pulse type reward) probably still managable.

[dusky kernel]

And I am one of them, and nowhere did I say we need to ban/abolish them, but we don't need to be creating new handicaps for non MA players

[sturdy ridge]

I just blew up a new box using 125 in my hands and i'm bugged now. It says a quartz orb (contents of exploded box) is in my hands but it's not...it's also adding to my encumbrance

A battered maoral coffer which contains:
  A shard of raven's wing obsidian (in)
  A small platinum nugget (in)
  A heavy quartz orb (in)
  Some silver coins (in)
  A bright gold ingot (in)
  
Peering through the maoral coffer, you notice that the lock casing is coated with a rough, grainy substance, and a small bladder is wedged between the tumblers of the lock.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

You gesture at a battered maoral coffer.
You notice a small cloud form over a battered maoral coffer.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>put of
time...
Suddenly a lightning bolt explodes from the small thundercloud and strikes a battered maoral coffer with a brilliant flash with some of the bolt hitting you!
Your wiregrass anklet pulses briefly, deflecting some of the electrical damage!
   ... 19 points of damage!
   Heavy jolt to chest causes solar plexus to explode.  Remarkable display of spraying blood.
   You are stunned for 4 rounds!
The maoral coffer is vaporized!```
```>get q orb
You already have that.

>rub q orb
You rub your quartz orb.
Hmm, nothing happens.  Maybe you have to hold it first.```
```get ob
You already have that.
>glance ob
You glance at your raven's wing obsidian.
>
You hear very soft footsteps.
>tap ob
>
You tap a shard of raven's wing obsidian that you are wearing.
>remove ob
You aren't wearing that.```
in hands
```>put ing in my pack
You put the gold ingot placed alongside you in your silver-buckled pack.
>
Relic Hunter Unc just arrived.
>
Relic Hunter Unc just went through a squat shop with a faded gemstone on its sign.
>get coins
You gather the remaining 5,466 coins placed alongside you.
Roundtime: 4 sec.```

GM showed up and the items fell to the ground
ALL BETTER

[devout island]

global handicapping detracts from the value of the game leading to people not playing. identify those who don't follow the guidelines you set and punish them. I can't believe you have no idea who they are.

[shrewd peak]

This is 100% on the mark. I do get that staff don't like to face our wrath when necessary changes are made, but has resulted in an approach that ends up alienating the vast majority of players most of whom would engage in meaningful discourse with management if changes are discussed up front. This silence from the top end is beyond my understanding, something's going on that we're not being told. I have heard zero real explanation of why me using my own resources from my own characters to improve my own gear that could take upwards of a year to fully accomplish would result in the need to nerf the resource accrual so drastically. Nor have I heard a decent explanation of why it can't simply be reverted to help forestall customers leaving the game, which I have as of this morning. I simply don't have the RL years left to either wait for a meaningful update to the system (consider the track record for fixing broken systems...) or to spend the time necessary in game at the current accrual rates to make updates to my gear anymore.

[slate edge]

what does HANDS show? (5min timers, ouch)

[sturdy ridge]

had 'some silver coins' which were 0 coins and 37 pounds. breaking things
IT WASN"T INTENTIONAL. i typed drop off instead of drop coff

I DO NOT RECOMMEND BLOWING UP CONTAINERS WHILE HELD

[blazing violet]

Did you blow that box up while you were holding it? That's brave, I always used to find a secluded spot in the wilds and drop it first.

[warm agate]

Looks like the box had a trap that happened to me yesterday but it seemingly resolved itself. Oh I see you were holding it , haha

[rough vault]

The other concern I have with this discussion and the feedback from staff is the perception of a conflict of interest. In gs3 staff was required to play characters to better understand the game and concerns from the player's point of view, but there were many policies to restrict gm characters from full participation at limited service events and raffles and auctions - all to try to keep conflicts of interest out of the perception. In modern gs4, gms actively flaunt their characters as if to argue they are one of us and have to deal with the same changes good or bad. Objectivity is difficult to believe at times.

[wintry shard]

Hunting is central to dungeons and dragons and gemstone. I could be wrong but I imagine the majority of people in game would rather hunt than farm (even if farming gave exp). And who decides what these new activities should be? A vocal minority? One gm with a pet project? I don't remember ever being polled or asked if I would like to farm or fish for that matter. Wouldn't it be better to focus resources on savants (which I never got behind btw but which a lot of folks seem to have wanted for a long time) instead of farming? Maybe the guilds could be finished for the professions that still don't have them.

[fierce lantern]

would you prefer a non-player do changes to classes they have not played? I'm not sure your point you're trying to make?

[old cedar]

GMs get to work on personal projects that interest them, nobody is forcing you to farm, or fish. It's nice to have the option to do other things than hunt, though.

[fierce lantern]

It's my understanding that the coupling of Resources and XP was a contributing reason that more mundane activities didn't grant more XP. Which is why they allowed throttling up of more XP with Lumnis. We all agree that resources are far too low atm. But, while that's being discussed/etc, there's also opportunities on the XP side that Auchand was alluding to.

[blazing violet]

Regardless of what adjustments get made, if resources remain decoupled from exp in the long term, I'm requesting a resource-specific version of RPA orbs. I would trade in all the orbs I've hoarded for resource versions.

[cold zephyr]

I do believe there is a daily cap on how much exp you can earn while foraging. I've had a couple of days I just pushed through forage bounties on a couple of a characters and I just use my high air lore wizard to forage for them, 1 second forage attempts for the win! Eventually he stopped earning exp for foraging. I can't say for 100% certain that this is the case, but that's what I noticed a couple of times.

Same thing with when you imebed something, you're very restricted on experience earned for doing it - I forget what it is, but I think one imbed a day and you no longer earn exp on it.

[lofty dragon]

After playing a few days with the changes, I just wanted to put my thoughts somewhere:
-I've stopped using the box pool and started just using my locksmith char to open all my other character's boxes for them. I might be willing to accept the fee if the locksmith got a percentage of that rather than being expected to tip on top of it....and it was transparent as to how it's generated (it's clearly not based on lock/trap difficulty as I've seen claimed)
-Gem values were way too drastically lowered and the number of silvers in boxes too greatly increased. Should have left gem values alone and used them to increase the value of boxes rather than silver/ingots that are heavy as heck. I feel for those that don't have deepened containers and/or play smaller races and don't have WR containers. Just makes hunting a chore for casual players since boxes are now the only real source of loot
-Whoever does QC these days needs to spend more time brainstorming how changes might possibly have unintended consequences. Esp big changes like this. There will always be things that aren't caught in advance, but this has steadily become a bigger problem in recent years
-I'm befuddled as to why the resource changes were made, it only punishes casual players and will ultimately impact revenue from DR/etc as players upgrade less gear due to projects being dragged out over a longer period of time. It also has no impact on silver generation or drain, just on the movement of silvers between players

[blazing violet]

I'll also request that more plinites drop in the Confluence now. No boxes drop in the Confluence, and the gems that drop have obviously been devalued.

[fierce lantern]

do you hunt the Hive as well? Are those dropping stones at a reduced rate as well?

[mossy forge]

Massively reduced rate. I got 2 my last hunt.

[main field]

As a casual player (less than 15 hours a week max) … I like the changes to resources … it makes me feel like my resources are more valuable now with my limited play style because I know that their aren’t as many alts producing player services… because now you’re forced to stay on your “main” to complete theirs

[brazen salmon]

Joke's on you, sir, no one wants my main's or my alt's resources! (cries in rogue and warrior)

[fierce lantern]

Warriors have a resource?

[dusky kernel]

250k Lumnis donation is a better-than-violet-orb, only a fool would buy an orb for more than 1m. Giving them another use is very smart

[old cedar]

Pretty sure their resource is GRITting their teeth any time someone talks about resources....

[mossy forge]

I still maintain an item upkeep cost system is needed in this game to help address silvers.

[brazen salmon]

I mean.. there are still days during the week I am without an exp modifier. I'd love to have a nice steady stream of violet orbs to supplement!

[digital fractal]

the locksmith pool is effectively dead from these changes, can we just remove that system and go back to the old way? Otherwise there is just this weird limbo where a few people dribble boxes into the pool for rogues to fight over and the rest either pick themselves with an alt or use the old locksmith for faster return. Even with the 2/3 reduction in lock mastery reps, it is going to be near impossible to master now with how bad box picking has become.

[dusky kernel]

soon you will have Cash'lo'nae's tutelage which will be drinking from the firehose of knowledge

pool: it is certainly dead-er, overnight it can be completely empty.. but yeah let's give it a fresh month before we call it

[boreal bobcat]

Is it dead from the changes or is it dead because everyone rushed loot cap before the changes and are now not generating boxes?

[main field]

Some of us mastered lock mastery before the pool… I don’t think that’s a valid reason to change it back.

These changes might not be popular but it’s the first time in years that I’ve heard anyone request for a private picker again.

[kindred ruin]

I haven't found it dead anymore. Yes it died right after the change but it got better.. I get very few boxes, but I'm managing to stay muddled on my baby picker when I run her and I'm pulling in at least 100k a day. That's good for me!

[blazing violet]

Being forced into not playing your alts is not a smart move imho.

[mossy forge]

I drop my trapped/magic metal boxes in there at the moment. Give me some time for XP so I can learn to disarm/pick.

[old cedar]

It's severely reduced, not dead. At least not at cap. I've been picking it for days now. It's not the endless supplies of boxes it used to be, but it was enough to get about 100k xp (5x Lumnis) and my 50k resources out of.

[tropic creek]

I thought any silvers over 5500 were supposed to be getting converted to a gold ingot? If so then something is a bit wonky on bigger amounts

Special [2]: some silver coins, a bright gold ingot

You gather the remaining 12,410 coins from inside your silver strongbox.
Roundtime: 10 sec.

The ingot is a solid bar of pure gold with a smooth, polished surface. You can't be sure, but you think the gold ingot might be worth between 10192 and 10699 silver if sold at a gem shop.

[main field]

No one is forcing you to stop playing your alt… if anything, they are encouraging you to play your alt even longer …

What I believe they are curbing alts that aren’t active in the community other that diluting it with more player services.

[ashen carbon]

No time to play the alt, when you have to spend a significant amount of time more on the main to accomplish anything.

[dusky kernel]

not to jump on your words, but "active in the community" will quickly devolve into "oh do I have to RP to get my resources now?"

[blazing violet]

What I take issue with there is the devaluation of time. My account is logged in for more hours per day than I log on my work timesheets, but if I want to play my alts they can only get a small portion of that time. Does that mean they're not "active in the community"? Of course not. The account is active in the community.

[chilly tulip]

People who play one character per account are less affected by the resource change by an order of magnitude. The people who have multiple characters on Premium accounts are put in a position of "pick which character gets to advance and get resource" which the MA'er doesn't face. It absolutely is yet another power gain for MA.

[old cedar]

I think Estild later said there was some randomness in it.

[kindred ruin]

I never understand this issue with MA's, they pay more money than we do, so they get what they pay for. If they were punished for paying more they wouldn't pay more and that would be a bad thing. we all have the same opportunity if we pay the more money, so these "perks" aren't behind some brick wall. It's not really unfair as much as just not affordable.

[digital fractal]

But I don't care about xp or silver from picking, at least not right now. It's mastering LMAS that matters to me. I'm taking all boxes from the pool, even the 1 silver tips, and I get maybe 2-3 every 10-15 minutes, and 90% of those aren't difficult enough to count as a rep when I need it. And sure, many people mastered before the pool was a thing, but before the pool players basically HAD to use rogues to open boxes so the supply was still plentiful, it just required player interaction (which I have no problem with, hence wanting the pool to just go away at this point).

[thorny roost]

Either let premium accounts log multiple characters or let us transfer those characters to new/alternative accounts for free.

[blazing violet]

I'm looking at it from the opposite perspective. I have no problem with MAs or the people willing to pay for them and spend the time on them. However, that doesn't mean that my ability to use the double digits of character slots on my account should be limited by this change in a way that it wasn't before.

[dusky kernel]

Once you do the math, if you play x amount and invest y amount in the game, a second account is more sound of an investment than say going from 7x to 10x. But in the case of resources, offline resource was one of the few places where a single player single account nearly had parity.

[brazen salmon]

I'm not sure it's an issue of fairness.

MAing lets one person act like many players.
Game economies are built around the assumption that one human = one source of effort, risk, and reward.
When that assumption breaks, the economy starts to skew.

More accounts mean more silver, resources, loot and services entering the economy faster than designed. It also distorts supply and demand.

And I'm not saying all MAers are bad or all MAers cause economic issues, but I will say it's not an issue of fairness that people bring it up.

[kindred ruin]

I would assume every account would earn the same as the first. If I have 1 account and earn 10mil a month, I'd assume and be disappointed if paying double didn't net me double. Then again maybe I don't understand cause I don't like hunting and it's like working to me.. lol. So I'm equating it to working. I sure as heck better earn double if I work twice as many hours!

[blazing violet]

Transferring to a new account for free isn't a good solution for someone with attuned gear. Let's not open that up into a discussion on the merits of attuning or not attuning, this is simply a consequence of attuning that would not have been envisioned by many at the time of attunement. I would love to be able to play more than one character on my account though. Sounds like a nightmare for staff, but I'd love being able to do that.

[main field]

One time transfer of attuned gear as well

[brazen salmon]

I'm not entirely sure what your expectations of double is meant to counter what I said? Expecting to make more doesn't change the impact one person with multiple accounts has on a game economy.

And you're not working twice as many hours. You're working the same number of hours but getting twice done what other people are.

[finite trench]

The world should not be designed around “well that guy pays more so they get a better experience than you.”

[main field]

Are you f2p or sub?

Isn’t sub like… the definition of this ?

Aren’t our experiences better than f2p?

Isn’t premium sub suppose to be better than normal?

[kindred ruin]

If premium could log on many, MA's wouldn't need multiple accounts. And if you make transfers free and unattuning stuff, They'd transfer all their characters to one account and it would cut on profits. It would be amazing, but I doubt it'll ever happen.

And if I'm playing two accounts I SHOULD earn double is my point. I'm two people. I AM working double hours because I'm now 2 people. How is someone who pays for 16 accounts and earns 10 mil a month on them break the system but 16 people playing 16 accounts making 10mil doesn't? Generally curious? Is it because it has the possiblity of going into the same bank account?

And the world works on money and how much you pay. If it didn't I'd live in a mansion and have a car that started whenever I wanted it to!

[thorny roost]

Or I absolutely agree. I made a specific choice about 14 months ago to stop MAing and switch to a single premium account that I have then worked on getting multiple characters up to the levels where i can farm these resources without feeling like i'm breaking my own and other peoples immersion by playing far fewer characters at a time. All that effort was just undone, and I can't help but feel pretty irritated about that. I could have been spending less money, playing more accounts, and making way more resources. I should not be punished now for something I had no way of foreseeing, heck didn't even have any inkling that resource generation was even a blip in the devs eyes. So perhaps as a gesture of goodwill they could offer myself and others like me, the option to decouple our characters, or play them simultaneously on a premium account. Also this isn't really directed at you.

[chilly tulip]

Premium sub is now straight up worse, from a perspective of resource gathering. You're better off splitting into multiple basic.

[ocean matrix]

Simultaneous play on one account won’t happen, that sub fee is the primary deterrent against everyone being a MA army (not that it stops those from existing, but the cost friction is meaningful)

[fierce lantern]

It's also from an authentication and account management process... it'd be a huge overhaul to a bunch of account::character handshaking processes, which likely haven't been directly touched in a LONG time and would be risky to go poking around in

[sleek meadow]

Another random idea to dovetail with the unlinking (semi kindad sorta) of Resource from EXP...which is broken for casual players now and does create a overall negative issue for them... Make Monster Drop Food award resources. as a bonus. That cookie or muffin you junk or gobble or leave on the ground that has no discernable use after the first dozen times you've done in in 30 years...make eating certain foods interesting again. Make it have some impact...and that could be ESS. Eat a fresh cookie, get 10 resources. Eat a stale one...get 1. Suddenly there's a reason to care for those little muffins you find sitting in the troll's back pocket again. Its a tiny amount but it would add up on top of the other absorption and would help eliminate some clutter. Don't apply it to buyable or summonable food...and it would give you a whole new event merchant silver sink...Come buy our Super Duper Spagehette meal at DR's Mama Elantha's pasta palace. each plate costs 2k BS and gives you 1000 resources (subject to weekly cap). All sorts of possibilities. But seriously....add some reasonable non-sit around for 15 hours additions to resource gaining. Since EXP orbs and LTE and many of the old exp mechanics are less desirable now....lets jazz up some new resource mechanics.

[brazen salmon]

You're not working double hours. That's not how that works. You're getting twice as much done in the same number of hours because you have multiple accounts.

Not once did I ever say a person with 16 accounts earning 10m on them broke a system. I said it damages game economies for all the reasons I stated above.

And the world works on money and how much you pay. If it didn't I'd live in a mansion and have a car that started whenever I wanted it to!

Again, this is about how MAing has a damaging effect on the economy and broken economies become dead economies.

[main field]

They offer vials in the radiant boxes that give you instant resources…

It’s crazy how useless those were to now … actually valuable.

Again, resources mean more , why is that a bad thing?

[kindred ruin]

I get that. I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I'm trying to understand. So are we saying that if we got 10 new players and they earned 10 mil a month that would hurt the economy as well?

And that last comment was to Tikba about them saying money buying more stuff was a bad thing. 🙂

[brazen salmon]

No.
Because 1 person generating one character's amount of something doesn't damage an economy.

1 person generating 16 character's amount of something in the same amount of hours is.

[cold zephyr]

Folks knocking grit...how dare you!

While I can't say it's setup the best way, I do like what it can do. Sadly though, the 10-15k grit I'd usually make a week on each of my 3 warriors will be next to nothing. Finishing off the last 3 CER levels for my weapon will be brutally slow, like 6 years to do slow instead of maybe 6 months.

I like to get my warriors out for 3 or 4 hunts one day early in the week, then come back to them at a later day that same week and do another 3-4 hunts. It was generally enough to get their grit to that 10k mark, sometimes 15k if I took the time to do a few extra hunts. Now their grit earning will be around 1k a week. Their loot will be greatly diminished and I don't give a rip about the experience gains you can pay for now for two reasons:

1. I'm in no rush to cap, I don't enjoy the capped hunting grounds
2. I won't make anywhere close to 250k on any of them to be able to pay the cost of the boost.

I may just stop playing them all together because of the recent changes to resource gain.

I'm still trying to finish a gem bounty for my level 65 warrior that he picked up before the changes - 8 uncut emeralds. He found 6 the first day I hunted him at the start of the week....come back at the end of the week with the changes and the 7 times I've had him out with major loot boosts active he has found zero. He needs 2 to finish the bounty, but they just don't drop for him anymore. Just because of this, I've been completely avoiding all gem bounties now on every character I play. Just one more bounty that's on my list of not to do bounties because they're not entertaining to do anymore.

[chilly tulip]

I've run through my 5x and 4x lumnis so far and have earned 18,300 resource. It's just wild how slow this is. It's no longer practical to max your weekly resource on anything other than a main. Legit part time job.

[sleek meadow]

Resources don't mean more. They will cost more...but in a very tiny group...large scale economic approaches break down quickly in a small population. Maybe they should have been slighly harder to get...though this itself is a debate. I'd argue that they were hard enough as someone's weekly gathering was still going for 2-3m...so its not like they were in some kind of pricing crisis and needed to go up in value.

And with the changes, the poor get poorer, and these changes also mean casuals get even less resources. Face it half the population already has services on their main items maxed. The saturation of the market is already done. The Genie is never going back in the bottle. The primary impact of reducing access is on new or casual players. Not to name names but we all know who this change will NOT impact. And in the end someone running 18 players over 15 hours a week will sell services for even more on the same schedule since they will still max all their alts every week. While casual or solo players will have less to sell.

Prices going up while income going down for 80% of the population in a small population like this doesn't actually help game longevity. So I'm not entirely clear on what benefit you think is going to happen in any material way for most players. I think if you believe it's going to make things better and suddenly people will enjoy waiting 9 months rather than 6 months to complete one elective step on a project piece we will simply have to disagree.

I do think it will reduce the items being sold at events though as many of us will be hesitant to start new projects or trade out weapons because the cost and time sink are simply too high. It was bad before and this makes it worse iMHO. but again...we may have very different play experiences so we don't always have to agree...it'll end up being what its being. And my suggestion about food was aimed at adding a fun element that had minimal large scale impact..so this really doesn't addreess that.

[brazen salmon]

So... it feels really slow, but it took me about 12-15 hours to get my resources on my alts prior to the change and it still takes me as long... it just feels less fun because it was so front loaded in the beginning.

I also didn't do the offline thing (except maybe the last like 500 maybe?)

[thorny roost]

I mean if I list out all the changes that have been made everything effects all of us the same, except for a few key things. Everyone that MA's won't care about the resource rate changing, because they are playing all of their characters at once. They also are far more likely to be completely immune to the pool changes as the more accounts you are running the higher the likelihood that you have a rogue to pick your own boxes becomes.

So again these changes were said to be directed at slowing the silver's being produced and quite literally the only folks who are essentially unaffected overall are those that MA. So again why make any changes at all if they aren't being directed at where the problem actually stemmed from.

[rough vault]

The weekly resource cap should have been lowered to 25k. More would feel complete in hitting par. Prices would adjust to account for longer resource time commitments. Life would go on. People don't like a bar that seems too high to hit.

[tropic creek]

That would feel even worse than this current slowness

[boreal bobcat]

The bar didn’t move though. Just took away your nos.

[fierce lantern]

also, changing the resource requirements would likely require per service changes downstream. adjusting a lot of tertiary abilities and tables, and seems troublesome and prone to problems.
Counterpoint: Maybe they could make 7-10x enchanting not take FOREVER

[ashen carbon]

Who gets radiant boxes? Isn't that a capped only thing? I'm 97 on one character and just barely above 60 on 2 others, so I've never seen this.

[brazen salmon]

Radiant keys/locks can drop anywhere once you level 60+

[fierce lantern]

Lets... not go there and stay on topic.... loosely....

[dusky kernel]

Why is that a bad thing?

They mean more because fewer people have access to them.
This raises prices of services, against a fresly trimmed loot cap.
I am of the opinion that while the price for services will rise, the market for services will drop precipitously. Grit and Covert Arts will never ever be purchased. Nobody will buy bard luck or ranger trinkets. Paladin standards will stop once you get the flare. People will have to prioritize enchanting and sanct and ensorcelling.

And people who use them on themselves.. it'll be relegated to the level of collectibles. Once every three months you'll notice "oh huh I have 200k, better use them". Rather than something to actually be excited about

[wintry shard]

Not sure why my post was pulled. We aren't supposed to be pushing our political agenda here but folks obviously do it and it bothers me. Oh maybe I shouldn't have called one person out in particular. Sorry about that.

[open canyon]

Coming in late to the convo, were all these changes put on the test server prior?

[ashen carbon]

No, the basic gist was, if they did that, we would complain in advance. I guess the shock value to hit us mid month on a holiday weekend was better.

[dusky kernel]

shift-enter let's you chop this world salad. Yes this is worth five minutes 😅

Look with the test server I get it -- "hey can someone hunt to loot cap on the test server please" is a bit of a tall order

[royal epoch]

So, let me be blunt. You don't have to participate in either system if you don't want to, but you also aren't in a position to unilaterally set my priorities. Much of what GMs do is a mix of passion projects and addressing game needs as assessed by the PM, APMs, and our teams.

[fierce lantern]

Because economics is not necesssarily political. It's politically adjacent, but it's not political in the same way as calling out political actions that have been occuring in current events with loaded language/etc. I removed your post to keep the conversation on the conversation of these particular changes, because knowing several folks here, it will further derail the conversation. Continuing to then publicly bring it up after I've removed the post isn't in line with dropping it.

I've want folks to blow off steam, because I understand folks aren't happy about it, and I'm not going to curb negative feedback. We have been incredibly lax about issuing warnings or taking actions because we understand folks are emotional regarding the changes.

[sleek meadow]

at least you understood it was about food.

[chilly berry]

I think I said this once before but for me the fun isn't because of the time of it, or because it was frontloaded. But I felt that my decisions mattered in how and when and how fast I would accumulate resources. "Oh. short on time this week. I guess I only get 20k? Hmm. Can I boost that somehow? Okay, I have a leftover green orb. Maybe that gets me 22k. That means next week I'm at 75k. Enough to that next service I want to do. Awesome." Not: Oh. 3 hours to play. I get 9000 resource this week I gues..

[finite trench]

I like the idea that more people want to do bard guild skills than fish.

[royal epoch]

La la la.

[kindred ruin]

Everyone has different wants in this game. I don't want to hunt. Put in another system. Yippy! I don't realy wanna fish either, but that's an entire world of RP there in a RPing game, so yippy! I even tried cobbling, until it got so broken I couldn't make a pair of shoes so I quit. But the point is more options for my time is always a good thing, you know.. unless you're requiring me to hunt for resources. 😉

[uncut juniper]

Enough

[chilly berry]

Back to civility and more to the point:

I would absolutely do more fishing and farming if I got exp for it. Or try cobbling. I really like the idea of gaining experience in more ways than just hunting. Hunting can get boring as the only means to an end.

I think especially now that loot has tanked (I'm not complaining. Getting used to the idea) it seems like doing other things like this would be great to make progress in the game.

Is that something that will possibly be entertained? Non-hunting systems for exp gain?

[finite trench]

I think you mean GLD LA LA LA (yes I had to wait five minutes to post this)

[old cedar]

And now you have to wait another 5 minutes for saying it... 😄

That aside, I'm not sure why anyone would ask for guild skills. Abilities to do cool things, sure, but please don't build another GLD type skill, they're horrible to deal with training if you ask me....

[brazen salmon]

I absolutely get that, I think I used the premium lantern in a pinch like that... which also didn't feel great but it got me there.

I also don't think that is a solution for making up the missed resources for most people.

[calm bay]

On the topic of non-combat related progression. I vote that RPAs include instantly gaining resources as this will 100% reward active participation since you need someone to nominate you for an RPA and then be reviewed. This is coming from an active "power hunter" that isn't engaged in the level of RP that many people enjoy.

We still need better incentives for single account, multi-character progression that doesn't continue to favor spreading your characters across multiple accounts because almost every new power creep introduction to the game that relies on playing the game creates another incentive to go multi-account and another weakness to single account / multi-character players (repeating - gemstones, treasure cap, resource gathering and a variety of other activities).

[dusky kernel]

Let Orbs and RPAs affect resource, 51% problems solved

[tawny sierra]

would probably see a better take on silver drain for event boxes if orbs could compete with 5x lumnis also

[brazen salmon]

Let orbs and RPAs rain from the sky! ( I mean if RPAs happened because there was more RP and more rewards for RPing, I would 10000000000% mean this seriously.... can we have more rp please?)

[boreal bobcat]

Imagine having to rp in a locked down room like the auction cause all the service alts show up for the rpa!

[rough vault]

RP is only allowed after you find your 3rd monthly gemstone....everyone knows this.

[fierce lantern]

Flipside... imagine the GM hosting an RP event/auction enable ubi for an auction room that granted 10xp/minute. There's lots of opportunity in the model now

[calm bay]

Encouraging breaks from hunting to engage with the community should absolutely be incentivized. Even having an effect such that the RPA gives you effectively a "major loot boost" increased chance to find your next gemstone until it wears off. Caveat that this should be only applied to characters who participated as a greater buff granted by a GM, not from orbs which should continue to be primarily for XP progression "convenience". Also there's nothing stopping them from introducing resource gathering boosts similar to the experience orbs.

[brazen salmon]

I would legit be low-key tickled if GMs started doing random 1-off little rp events randomly throughout the game.

A 10-20minute mini-event with just some messaging or an NPC talking about current events... things that offered random snippets of rp or jump-started player rp discussing it. Things like that make the game feel so alive.

Anyway, that's offtopic so uh... please swap the 1% post cap back to a hardcap, please... hunting for 5 days and finding... 1 box is so demoralizing.

[slate bluff]

I am telling you, 25mil silver per hour for your own RP event run by a GM..... max 5 hours. Be the main character of your own adventure!

[south trail]

I was thinking the same thing!!! Auction off a personlized RP experience for half a day for up to 5ppl. MB 100M. That would sell like hotcakes

[fierce lantern]

Strange... when I tried to sell my RP Experiences for half a day for 5 people for 100m... I didn't get any takers...

[finite trench]

You guys reinvented specter and shadow but I have some bad news about the price level

[brazen salmon]

That doesn't stimulate RP for other people though, I'm not interested in being the MC, I'm interested in casual RP coming back and interactions being more meaningful across the board.

On topic: The 1% post lootcap is terrible, please give us back a hardcap at like 25m. Please. 🙁

[finite trench]

I actually didn’t notice until now that they lifted the hard cap. Bring back the hard cap at 15m! Make it negative! If you keep hunting they should fine you!

[fierce lantern]

Agree with your feedback that the 1% feels bad. I haven't hit it, but I'm also not certain if that influences things like Gem/skin bounties and other mechanics to fully turn it to 0, so not sure the overall impacts. Lets wait and see what a fresh month looks like in terms of getting to the cap once the dust has settled and stuff. It may be a higher mountain to climb based on what we're seeing out of Gems. And I know they're working on more adjustments based on feedback, so this is likely a horrible, anomalous month in general

[boreal bobcat]

I definitely prefer the 1% to hard stop!

In the dwarf skin backpack:
Skins [120]: a woolly mastodon trunk (59), a niveous warg pelt (59), a golden hinterboar mane (2)
Total items: 120
>
>look in my shroud
In the plumille shroud:
Weapons [1]: a feras dagger
Wands [1]: a silver wand
Gems [2]: a stygian lichstone, a rutilated twilight tourmaline
Total items: 4

1% loot baby!

[brazen salmon]

I mean 1% is going to feel bad next month too. It just felt bad overnight this month instead of like... day 20 next month.

[slate rock]

I for one welcome our lootcap overlords. The new cap will be good for the economy.

[slate bluff]

Do legendary boxes now have 3 items to match the overall box change?

[kindred ruin]

its seems like a ton more folks hit loot cap this month. I've been seeing questions about what numbers of items are being used to calculate it. Like are temp pad/crit weapons and armor counting the sung to price or the pawnshop price of 25k? If we find a necklace the pawnshop says is worth 150k but they give us 25k, which value is counting towards loot cap. Cause if it's the former I can see people hitting loot cap without really earning much in a month.

[chilly tulip]

If it uses pawn appraise value, that would be hilarious and terrible.

[tawny sierra]

kind of does if you use herbs

[boreal bobcat]

That's how you get legendary boxes to count against your lootcap for more than 25k!

[fierce lantern]

I am very doubtful they will distribute additional calculation details. I think many folks were prone to loot cap this month due to the change and already having gotten a bunch this month. Which validates the commentary regarding the mid-month release on a monthly process. On the flipside, gives them time to adjust before the next cycle

[finite trench]

This does give us an opportunity to discover the funniest bug ever on February 1st

[slate bluff]

Maybe there has been another breakout of the looties...... sowing fear and mistrust

[kindred ruin]

I don't expect exact formulas, but knowing if that temp crit/padded armor I found in a box counted 25k towards my loot cap or 1.5mil towards my loot cap would be nice to know. We seem to have quite a few people who were shocked they'd hit loot cap and were trying to figure out how. A LOOTCAP verb would be nice just to say "you're nearing it, you reached it." whatever, just for easier troubleshooting and less assists/referrals.

[dusky kernel]

I dont think those count because like, 2 or 3 million on some throwaway armor, we would have tarred and feathered people by now

[ashen carbon]

Is referencing another game breaking the rules that I'm not aware of? I don't see anything on that in the rules, and I've seen multiple posts where other people reference other games and those posts stayed. Curious why my little tongue in cheek joke got pulled. If they want to keep tensions down, I would think allowing a little joke here and there would help.

[brazen salmon]

;bank and ;ledger work together to calculate your lootcap. They seem to be a pretty accurate indicator and don't require GM intervention.

@ashen carbon - I think a bunch of tongue-in-cheek jokes got pulled simply for being jokes and not on-topic. We're not all lucky.

[south trail]

something funny seems to be going on. I hunt manually on my warrior. A good hunt could net me 40k-70K, now I'm getting around 10K-20K. I would be very surprised if I found out I had hit 10m. Especially since I wasted so much of that time grinding ME for a gemstone.

[boreal bobcat]

To be clear about ledger. It tracks what you deposit into your account to estimate lootcap. Many things throw it off, withdrawing money to buy things or pay fees and depositing the excess counts that excess deposited a second time. It doesn't account for trading or racial bonuses. It doesn't account for purifying.

So it is a rough estimate and how accurate that estimate is depends on your playstyle.

It does omit deposits over 1m from the estimation. So player service income and stuff wouldn't count unless you're a warrior selling one cheap service 😁

[dusky kernel]

I would do the even more dumbfire method of putting my daily bank balance into a spreadsheet, and manually backing out big purchases like services (GUESS I WONT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT anymore hyuk hyuk)

[brazen salmon]

Sometimes I wonder if maybe you're a little too close to your spreadsheets, sir.

Also... how do you feel about fixing my cobbling spreadsheet? 🙂

[slate bluff]

Is there a command for ledger that shows the summarized lootcap estimate per account with all characters?

[warm agate]

I'd like to think I'd do more fishing/farming/cobbling or whatever non-hunting system some creative dreams up. The reality maybe isn't really the case. I don't know. I don't ever like bring the top to meet the rest, I'd rather see rising tides.

[digital turtle]

How about weekly NPC quests that pay (silver rewards) for player services? That's a way to increase demand.. Cutting off the supply won't magically bring up demand... So many people have shared that they were unable to sell their services as is...

[ashen carbon]

This you?
https://youtu.be/UBX2QQHlQ_I?si=CowgVcZkT2K5NMkp&t=174

[brazen salmon]

If I could hand in food or jewelry I crafted for exp (like an NPC tells me to go out and make something that has tanzanite and gold in it) that would be super cool.

I love the idea of this as an exp alternative to hunting.

[dusky kernel]

https://youtu.be/OrwBc6PwAcY?si=DwCJ3cBVngcO1F8w

[ashen carbon]

One of the reasons I always train my characters for herablism. I actually enjoy herb bounties.

[brazen salmon]

I can see it now...

Bob affably says, "Perigourd, old man, I'm going to need you to bring me 4 perfect vaalorn longswords with wooden hilts!"

Perigourd looks as if someone just poured saltwater on all of his trees.```

[chilly berry]

To keep the “other things for exp” conversation without detracting from this, I made this thread:

https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1463599044843802918

[old crystal]

assuming by hunt you mean experience (Since farming is meaning you're farming for your gemstone or farming for silvers or farming for ingrediants needed for something), there's always trying your hand at Spirit Beasts at Talon Area or just challenging somebody else in some room where it's allowed. I believe in addition to amusement/fun, it still yields some experience. Obviously so does services provided by classes and lockpicking. Almost forgot: Artisan Skills Training (ie: forging, cobbling, fletching)

While hunting is fun in D&D, it's not always about the hunt. There's also QUESTing in both games, but either way you are forgetting the Roleplay. When people are just hunting/farming all the time, there's almost little RP going on, let alone interaction with folks. That's fine if people want that, but it shouldn't be based just around the hunt/farming.

also: while D&D and GS are similar, this is still GS. Either way though, it shouldn't be based solely on hunting/farming.

[jolly palm]

On the contrary, that's almost exactly how products and services should work to incentivize paying more.

In fact, ALMOST EVERYTHING in life is this way. Getting more value or better quality from something almost ALWAYS means paying more.

It's no different if you're someone producing things. If you're spending more time, delivering a better service or product, you can charge more and people are okay with that.

[finite trench]

No they aren’t, people consistently hate that.

[open canyon]

"2 or 3 million on some throwaway armor", seriously, who are you people? 😂 ... I am so poor.

[jolly palm]

Example: Three kids mowing lawns. There are customers that fit all 3 of them.

Billy charges $5 to mow your lawn, but he doesn't pickup the sticks, weedwhack, or mow it consistently.
Jane charges $10, but picks up sticks and wheedwhacks
Wally charges $15 and picks up sticks, wheedwacks and mows perfect criss cross patterns into the lawn.

Sure, everyone wants the Wally Service for $5. But finding incremental goods or services to incentivize us to play more is just smart business practice.

[finite trench]

Yeah, I think I made this point originally. People hate “smart business practice.” My goal is not to pay the maximum amount that market segmentation can wheedle out of me through various forms of devaluation, it’s to have fun playing a game.

[dusk ridge]

As someone who has limited time, I actually love it. I like to enhance my experiences for the time I have to be in games.

[ashen carbon]

Wally buys out Billy and Jane and now they all work to the same level of Billy while charging Wally prices. Sorry, I work at an MSP. I've seen way too many good companies bought out and ruined by venture capital firms. While the concepts above might work on a micro level, when it comes to big money, big money always wins regardless of whether or not they provide good services.

[cold zephyr]

tracking loot in the last 21 boxes I've opened with my rogue, here's what I can tell you:
Boxes have been from creatures ranging in level from 43 to 63

 *This means you'll keep roughly 60% of the total value of the box

Average cost for the pool to get your box opened would be half that of the NPC locksmith (this does not include a tip).
 *This means you'll keep roughly 80% of the total value of the box (minus whatever you want to tip)

My 21 boxes, everything sold in all boxes returned me a value of 211,818 silver.
Were I to use the NPC, I would have seen 128,474 silver.
Were I to use the pool, I would have seen 170,451 silver (I would deduct any tips from this amount).

Average number of items found per box is 6.2 (round it up or down for you liking)

I have found one box with 8 items inside, when included with the box it was 9 items and I was unable to put it in the disk. With it weighing 100 pounds I had to run to town and deal with it.

It's a small data collection. Hopefully it'll help some of you make a decision on whether you want to utilize the NPC, pool or pick them yourselves or even finding another person to open then for you for tips.

[pseudo quiver]

What is the current benefit for a Prime (NOT Prem) sub? Is it 1 char, more char slots for 5$ apiece?

I want my facts straight, for a long post I'll be making later.

[cold zephyr]

You get full access to the game - minus anything the Prime and Plat subs get. I'd say consult the gswiki, but it's been horribly slow the past 3-4 days and it is currently giving me "503 Services Unavailable"

[dusky kernel]

haha no what I mean is -- temp weighted armor generally is appraised for crazy amounts, millions.. but nobody ever uses it, its literally thrown away. So if that 2-3 million counts against loot cap, people would have rioted long ago

[vital badge]

https://gswiki-archive.gs-game.uk/index.php?title=Main_Page

not mine fyi, just posting link

[jolly palm]

Extra Character slots are $2.50 a piece on prime subs

[open canyon]

Ah, I was like 'good grief these people are throwing away millions of silvers and here I am looking at my 8m combined bank balance crying"

[mental dock]

We're aware of the problems with the wiki. It's coming from connections outside of our control. I assure you, no one is as ready for it to work again as GM Xeraphina.

[finite trench]

Didn’t realize the price went up lol

[pastel pewter]

I don’t understand the trivialization of exp gain combined with the elimination of offline resource gain, unless it's because the huge bump in exp gain is going to lead to that many more capped alts with resources to sell.

[wispy forum]

i want to type words - ive already typed a lot of words - id really like to understand why my logic is flawed and engage in a greater design discussion regarding it - someone with a GM tag slide into my DMs plz, thx bb 🥹

[pseudo quiver]

I think this is my first time actually seeing you in Discord! Top of the afternoon!

[cold zephyr]

I don't know.....issue came up around the same time all the changes were released.

Coincidence? I think not!

[mental dock]

It's getting on the in the evening for me.

[fierce lantern]

Accurate. But also, more broadly enables focusing on cap and post-cap experiences.
A lot of analysis was historically performed on the leveling experiences and more specific balancing of experiences throughout the 1-100 spectrum, but not always on the 100 range, let alone the the 15m range, the 30m xp range, or the Kontii range, and how classes may continue to diverge in terms of training opportunities and power.

That's not to say post-cap world and focus only from this point on... not by a long shot!

[wispy forum]

blah 🙁

[pseudo quiver]

My biggest issue with this, is it seems to dis-proportionately incentivize folks paying 250k silver/week to supercharge the process of getting to lvl 100, so they don't get priced out of the resource market

[chilly tulip]

Finally, a new take

[fierce lantern]

Isn't that already the case for a ranger, bard, empath, rogue, or paladin selling a low tier service when most of their potential service power comes at cap or after cap? I know I've seen P1s sell for like, 1m, while I charge 4m/week for a P5

[calm bay]

+monk

[fierce lantern]

I mean, warriors too, but those folks don't count, they don't have services

[fierce lantern]

@split hamlet Hey, read that. You'll appreciate the tag

[devout bobcat]

Hey this is a great update!

[alpine walrus]

Let's the Same old responses

COMMENCE!!!

[sleek meadow]

One element you don't account for here is size of the consumer base. In a small island this starts to look very different from say, a large country of 360million. All the "it works in my work world this way" starts to break down when you are talking a couple hundred players who have to bridge both small world cough economy in GS and also have to provide real world $ to engage in many of the activities effectively. Not saying there aren't points. Just saying that a lot of these constructs might work in my city where I really work and live but don't really apply to the tiny world of GS where we have a true cap on the population while there is increasing pressure to pay more and more. Still I want that Kid to come mow my lawn for $5 cuz the last one I could even find in my neighborhood (there was only that one left the others aged out in my old hood) wanted $40 a week.

seriously though send me that kids number 😄

[half sable]

I think I maybe might possibly be ok with those adjustments! but I won't know for sure until my next round of resource gaining next week. Thanks for listening and adjusting

[finite trench]

Good changes!

[sinful coyote]

The real test: can I make chrisms?

[pseudo quiver]

Progress!!

[chilly tulip]

Good changes. Thanks for making them.

[slate bluff]

So 10 hours if you online, thats what ppl wanted

[fierce lantern]

There's an App Gemstone for that

[boreal bobcat]

Get that innate focus brah

[crimson pond]

Man, I have excellent timing. I just turned in a bounty and am no longer saturated. What gives!1!1 😛

[dusky kernel]

alright, well done folks, I think you did it. lets see, but I think you did it

damn y'all make Auchand suffer the slings and arrows in here and let Estild deliver the good news 😅

[fierce lantern]

Please continue to evaluate the most recent round of fixes. especially the downstream impacts of gems/etc, and let us know if that feels better. We really are listening to feedback!

[fervent hatch]

I will be pushing out the CLAIM from the post-auction reward that @lucid latch hooked everyone up with. And I will be including some extras for the 4 day period where we had to work through the feedback.

[brazen salmon]

Fantastic update, Estild!

[devout island]

yeah that''s not going to happen any time soon. it takes a while to get a perfect, unless they redo forging to make it faster and easier

[lucid latch]

I thought I was in trouble.

[tropic creek]

Yeah, waiting to hear if we can actually find a decent number of at least bright chrism-able gems (8k+ value)

[fiery cove]

These look to be very well tuned values which strike a fair balance. Nice work!

[fervent hatch]

You likely will be, you know how it goes.

[jolly palm]

Great updates! It's super uplifting to see the GM crew take the feedback and tweak for the population!

1. Nice update to the resource gen, that should feel much better overall. 10 hours feels appropriate.
2. Hopefully all gem related systems are in a workable state - any details on how much they're reduced from the original baseline? Just so we have a sense of how they'll interact with all the things? It will also help us bug things appropriately in case it didn't play out as expected.
3. Interesting to see the offline exp still in the mix. I sure do feel bad that some knee jerk reactions occurred before the feedback was received and adjusted on.
4. Heck yeah, I'm down with the new exp buckets!

[visual oar]

has someone mathed it out how long it now takes of online + offline for 50k?

[fierce lantern]

Zhagen said 10 hours with 0 offline... and I'm too tired to check

[slate bluff]

So offline resources went from all exp to no experience to 25 per pulse? Did I get that right? So you would need like 33 hours of offlining to get all resources offline.
I ain't even offline long enough for that!

[pseudo quiver]

9h 48m to max 1 char resource

[old cedar]

I interpreted that to still require the xp absorbing while offline.

[dusky kernel]

good way to calc it, calc it for 7 full minds (as if you logged off fried) and subtract from that 10 hours

[old crystal]

my lumnis is friday noon and before I got to work today I was just a lil shy of 40k / 50k resources but lumnis is expired at this point obviously

[crimson pond]

Not per pulse, per 10 minutes. Previously it was 15 exp (and resource) per 10 minutes - but affected by exp multipliers

[brazen salmon]

1. Is this gem update going to fix chrisms to be... well makeable again?
2. A much nicer, less painful online resource gathering experience, thank you.
3. Field Bucket increase?!?! - this is what I was hoping for when I heard "Exp changes" - Yaaaaaaaaaas ❤️ Thank you!

Solid updates!

[cold zephyr]

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I'm probably of the minority:

I don't care about capping characters or endgame, the need to use expedited Lumnis to help get there is trivial to me.
I don't care that others may have or may not have done MAing to achieve high amounts of silver or earn large amounts of resources to sell for said large amounts silver.
I don't care about "uber" items at DR and any other event.
My playing enjoyment was never, not once, ever turned sour from anyone else that enjoyed amassing oodles and oodles of silver and spending it on "god" auctions.
My playing enjoyment was never, not once, ever turned sour from anyone else earning resources and selling them to others (RMT or silver) or using the resources on their items.

As I was typing this out Estild bravely hops in and posts some updates - awesome, we'll see how they feel - because the next few lines were going to be more about resource and experience gains.

[main falcon]

if you want to do the full offline thing, then hunt twice a day, full off-line exp absorption gives 7 * 24 * 6 * 25 = 25.2k resource in a week (in a completely perfect situation), which seems like a fair compromise

[frosty gate]

But I don't have any premium accounts! Rabble rabble!

[tawny sierra]

Can I end my account promotion early to get this?

[chilly berry]

Boom! I love the dev team right now. Happy camper. Holy stinking exp bucket, batman!

This seems like a good compromise and look forward to how things go over the next week or so of testing and Lumnis buckets, and seeing how things continue to shake out with valuation changes.

Furthermore. Its been 2 "work days" since the change. This is a quick, incremental fix.

Kudos.

Okay, back to rabble /s 😉

[slate bluff]

So is 25 per 10 minutes actually better for ppl who weren't doing the lumnis thing? Like I logout with a full head at 40k/50k resources now it will actually be faster than it was before at 15 per 10 minutes.
With lumnis brooch my bucket about to be like 2100....

[rich monolith]

I just wanted to drop in and say, thank you for the updates, I think they will address most of my concerns with the previous changes. I feel less disadvantaged with all my premium account alts now. Thank you for wading through all the world-ending flames of utter meltdown to capture useful feedback and make relevant changes.

[pseudo quiver]

I'm looking forward to exp bucket + ultra-mega Lumnis. My Lumnis bucket turned Thurs last week, I haven't had a chance to taste it yet. Lol!

[normal drum]

Seems like swinging the pendulum back in this instance is/will result in higher player satisfaction than the original swing. I suspect I’m likely to like the changes. Thank you.

But, from a process perspective, my feedback is I find this process as problematic/if not more problematic than before.

The idea that staff needs to overshoot changes, so that when players are not supportive (I say when, not if), some changes can swing the pendulum back, and ultimately arrive at some sort of stasis, is not my preferred process. I understand the concern for “poor tactics” used previously, but think we’re just as susceptible to them now (or even more so).

I’m not sure what a better approach is, but maybe we can think about it, so that staff and players can feel better about the process itself going forward.

(Edit: I say that collaboratively. If we really do believe this is a shared world, I want everyone to be valued here).

[tribal relic]

This will probably get lost with the current changes and everyone going nuts here but my feedback

First, let me say thank you for the recent updates and for listening to the majority of the player base.

That said, there’s still a major issue with boxes—and I’m not referring to the pool fee. As a halfling, like other small races, I’m still really struggling to complete even a single OSA run or hunting ground run because of box weight. I know this was adjusted somewhat, and I do appreciate the effort, but it doesn’t feel like a permanent solution. Some of us are still having significant issues dealing with box weight.

[royal epoch]

It's the only way I experience joy.

[pseudo quiver]

Cm'on Rovvi, just say "Halflings and Gnomes (and maybe Aelotoi)".

Or wait! "I"'ll say it! Somebody has to. I'll be "Somebody."

No dis-respect whatsoever to our GM team! But, let's fix other issues as well.

[crimson pond]

I've heard a few requests to use the Test server, but I honestly don't think that would've worked for changes like this. Test works for explicit mechanics changes that have measurable acceptance criteria. Often those willing to engage with Test are already mechanically oriented. I don't think this set of changes fit that model very well, they're very "feel" oriented and much more subjective to tolerance levels. While it does create a degree of unrest among the population, it's mostly overblown reactions that make their way to discord feedback (meaning: nobody literally died because they got a few less resource points this week. Annoyed/bothered, sure.) But it also solicits feedback based on real play patterns, not derived ones forced upon a Test environment

[gloomy lark]

just think, if you were on vacation for the last week and came back to all these changes, I think you would be overly excited about all the new stuff

[brazen salmon]

I want there to be a meaningful way to help understand all the collateral damage that occurs with these changes.

Knowing that gem value changes could affect chrisms, animalistic totems, crafting boxes and like 10+ other systems prior to dropping the changes would have at least alleviated some of the frustration.

[north lance]

Lol my partner was on vacation last week. Came back with a WTH that i had to explain 🤣

[peak flax]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as saying people would be thrilled, they are still mostly nerfs. But since I was complaining earlier I did also want to come back and say thank you to the GMs for taking the feedback into consideration and finding what seems like nice compromises on the loudest complaints.

[frosty gate]

How exactly does offline experience absorption work? Tried looking it up on the Wiki but it seems to be down.

Do you still have to absorb 20 experience per pulse offline to get the 25 resources per 10 minutes?

If you logged off with 1800 experience in your head, at which point would you stop absorbing 20 experience per pulse?

[fierce lantern]

The other thing to consider is that the changes were successful, depending on your test conditions. XP was still gained, resources were still gained, XP was generated, gems were generated using the new rarity tables, etc. Sure, some maths/etc were further analyzed and adjusted, but the core remained consistent. It's not like when 1006 broke the server upon rollout (hi Ivry)

[pseudo quiver]

To echo Riend's comment... Are gems restored to their previous values? Are "pre-change" gems able to be purified again, and/or do they make good chrisms/orbs now? More clarification please.

[royal epoch]

I lifted the cooldown to 2 mins, but the Eye of Auchand be upon us all.

[tawny sierra]

good point. iirc offline exp was less than 20 per pulse.

[frozen tusk]

Holy heck. The experience bucket increase occurred!

I'm psychic!

[chilly berry]

Oh! Now that its good new you let us talk again! 😛

[royal epoch]

I'm no fool.

[main falcon]

15 exp every 10 minutes, which will now also grant 25 resource (presumably provided that one has the exp to absorb in the bucket)

[fierce lantern]

Should be better than before, but continue to monitor and let us know.

[rain reef]

Thank you for the resource changes and experience earning/holding tweaks, I appreciate the adaptation!

I'll try doing some chrism-ing this evening and see how it goes.

[royal epoch]

You'd think I'd been working on an Artisan Complaint system in here. 😛

[pseudo quiver]

It was 1 tick of 50 offline, and that was it.

[digital turtle]

I try to remind myself that it is rare and we are very lucky to have the level of communication with the Development team that we do. It's great to see tweaks happening quickly. Kudos.

What about the box changes? What is the intended goal for box treasure? What's wrong with the previous model of box treasure that arguably needs adjustment? Would it be reasonable to give smaller races a boost to their encumbrance capacity? Lots of changes have been nerfing small races over time.

[fierce lantern]

I interpreted offline as being a binary if you're gaining XP, and not subject to the threshold that online XP was.

[tribal relic]

i just asked about that, as i way need it

[frosty gate]

Interesting. So offline resource gathering is actually better now than it was before these changes originally dropped?

[shrewd mountain]

So... maybe I'm in the minority... but I mostly didn't mind the changes, but that's mostly because I'm a casual player, and objectively bad at the game, so the resource issue didn't/doesn't really touch me.

That said, my one major objection is the nerf to low-end loot. Locksmith pool fee? Ok. Not great, but I can cope. Going from 20-50k overall loot from a hunt to <10k? That stings... and someone, please, tell me... how does that correct the 5%/95% disparity, or change the effects of MAing or automation?

As many others have observed... the single account and casual players, especially those of us who love our alts, are the ones taking a beating here.

[tawny sierra]

are we there yet?

[chilly berry]

To save the math for everyone and so no one can say they don't know:

You have about a 1000 exp bucket.

1000/15 = 66 ten minute buckets, or 660 minutes = 11 hours

Login in morning. Fry. Logout. You'll now get 66 x 25 = 1,650 resource as well.

Do that again at night you end up with 1,650 x 2 x 7 = 23,100 resource by the end of the week. Probably closer to 25,000 considering what you'll gain by hunting.

Previously you could get like 33,000 I think. So this is less. But a good compromise.

[fierce lantern]

Maybe you have a 1000 EXP bucket, I have a 1200 XP Bucket

[pseudo quiver]

Are you Europe-ish?

I used to be that, for a while

[frozen tusk]

Field Exp: 1,449/1,449

Jealous?

[mental dock]

UK, so yep.

[gloomy lark]

Yes

[rain reef]

Figures this would turn into a bucket-measuring contest... 🤣

[lucid latch]

I see your shwartz is bigger than mine.

[rich monolith]

New goal in life is a bucket of 1337

[open canyon]

On a lot of it maybe, but something more like the small races not being able to lift boxes would be pretty easily seen

[chilly berry]

Based on the name I always assumed Germany.

[fading flare]

Thanks for the changes, all. Will have fun checking them out.

[frosty gate]

If you absorb 15 experience per 10 minutes offline then wouldn't 25 resources every 10 minutes be faster than before? Or is the 15 experience multipled by Lumnis so you really get 45/30 experience per 10 minutes offline? Well during Lumnis anyways.

[digital turtle]

This is another point the Dev team should please address. Casual players are still on the losing end. Why? Was it anticipated? Does data hold it to be true/false? I feel like this has been completely ignored by Dev. I've tried to bring up so many times and have gotten zero replies.

[main falcon]

It will now be close to the previous effectiveness. Because previously you could bank 1000 exp, then triple lumnis would amplify that to 3000 experience and resource, or 2000 experience and resource - which one would absorb overnight or during the work day. With just 2 hunts a day, you could get 21k+14k=35k resource for the week. Now that same 2 hunts a day will net you about 25k resource, which is a pretty reasonable compromise going forward.

[rain reef]

wow people just showing off their buckets all over the place now

FAMILY GAME, PEOPLE

[pseudo quiver]

What we got pre-adjustment, was, 1x 50 reso tick, and that was it. This is absolutely a change in the right direction, esp. for Premium accounts.

[crimson pond]

Yeah, fair enough - I should not have lumped all the components of the release together. Which in itself is another thing to consider, I think this suite of changes could've been divided into several releases. BUT, I certainly understand why - from the dev's perspective - it might be preferable to dump it all at once and rip of a single band aid.

[north lance]

As a casual player I expect to not get as much as those that play a lot more. No matter how you look at it...that is true. I have zero issues here

[vital badge]

time to game the system and figure out how large of an XP bucket you can stack up now.

IT IS THE ERA OF THE GIGABRAINS

[chilly berry]

It was multiplied by lumnis so you would get 45/30 in the old system

so 45 per 10 minutes for the first 7300, 30 per pulse for the next. That would clear about 7 days of logging in twice a day and net you 33k ish

[royal epoch]

I'd like more insight into how they are on the losing end.

[lucid latch]

The addict in me is glancing at my five shattered accounts and their XP buckets.

[royal epoch]

Other than the fact that playing more will always benefit you.

[tribal relic]

release a change race so i can change from halfling to a giantman to hold more crap...im totally kidding, my rp is being a halfling

[digital turtle]

That's not the point being made. It's that the casual player is getting hit by what feels like at least 33% or more in loss of revenue. The stated goal was to balance the top 5% and the bottom. This is not achieving that. That's the point, not whether you're ok making less loot than people who play more 😛

[frosty gate]

Ah okay, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it all.

[boreal bobcat]

The stated goal was to reduce silver output.

[fading flare]

There were two parts. One was overall silver generation, and the other was loot cap.

[timber kraken]

Just chiming in to say thanks for listening to the players and making some excellent changes. The exp field bucket increase was a nice little surprise.

[frosty gate]

Honestly 85 resources per pulse seems faster than ever. The only exception would be if you were running an RPA or were 3xing Lumnis. 85 seems faster than even 2x Lumnis.

[tawny sierra]

I think the resource absorption does enough now to even it out. Im still unsure about the loot curve tho. If the average play time is 8 hours per week for 1 character and that can get to something like 25% of the softcap its probably tuned well. Idk what average* casual* play time is so Its just shooting in the dark. If its closer to 5% then that probably needs to be tweaked imo

[north lance]

I am looking at 15 to 20% pre gem change. Tonight will determine where that ends up. So that said its the same issue no matter how much I play. Same percent lost. You sre never going to be a whale as a casual player

[noble elbow]

Woo good news, I am gladdened we could come to something of a compromise. And peace is like sort of restored or something.

[vital badge]

RP a giantman who thinks he is a halfling... BAM problem solved

[fading flare]

Someone else can do the math, but I suspect it’s close to what it used to be for the whole 50k with Lumnis. Still slower than Lumnis + blue orb

[brazen salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

[ebon eagle]

I am very happy with the feedback driven resource gain updates...thanks all!

[tribal relic]

yea no, im trying to figure out who i can lug around to be my looter and i really shouldnt have to. slightly annoyed but the changes were nice

[digital turtle]

I think overall understanding is that the changes were meant to address a wealth gap. When everyone is hit equally and prices in the economy don't go down, the people that were making the least stay poor and are affected the most. They are priced out of the economy unable to participate as much as they were before. Is this incorrect? On top of that, it now also adds an exp gap because the folks at the bottom cannot afford 250k weekly lumnis. This was already known by staff when they showed data back when loot cap was implemented that most players could not afford the occasional 250k raffle. How could these players now afford a weekly 250k benefit? They mostly can't. Is this incorrect?

[fading flare]

The only change I would still like, I think, is for RPA orbs to modify resource gain. That was really useful when I didn’t have much time to play.

Also, RPAs are not that easy to get.

[brazen salmon]

So I was able to make 3 chrisms from old gems that I couldn't make chrisms of since the change.

That is... not really indicative of a fix... but maybe?

[dusky kernel]

Yeah this used to be 35k, I think down to 25k is a fair compromise, especially with everything else

[lunar beacon]

The initial resource change was the only thing I was giving side-eye to, this compromise was good

[finite trench]

chrisms really need a full reconsideration honestly and we can only hope this leads to one, along with the long-awaited 240 nerf (yes I even hate my own class)

[digital turtle]

I'm not sure why you talk about being a whale or not... The point is that people that play casually are being gutted and priced out of the economy. My understanding is that most players can't even afford 250k weekly lumnis with the way loot was BEFORE loot cap.. How can they afford it now? They can't. Who's hurt the most by these changes then? Casual players. At no point is there talking here about whether a casual player is a whale or should make the same amount of silver as an 18 hour a day player.

It's about finding a balance between time played, loot and resources gathered, and your ability to participate in what the game has to offer. Are you saying the 250k lumnis boost is meant to be for whales only? 😛

[jolly palm]

With all the expedited exp changes.....

Is it possible that Lumnis brooches be re-examined for benefits?
A lot of folks spent a lot of money on those for them to have a significantly lowered impact with the updates.
I guess my ask would be ---- could they be boosted, proportionally to align with the new exp model gains?

[fading flare]

A casual player isn’t hindered that much at the moment by the loot changes.

[haughty jacinth]

Surprise it wasn't about the other 74% the entire time.

There is no way one would think that introducing a 500k per week silver sink to help people level to cap faster was actually for the average player trying to level to 100, who is lucky to make that much silver in a week. The only way this makes sense is making the cost a percentage of their total experience.

[noble elbow]

Yeh, the resource situation was a little rough. I'm really glad we hit a compromise between the historical 120/80/40 split, and still 85 per 20 off Lumnis is so much kinder.

[crimson pond]

250k/wk, not 500

[brazen salmon]

Maybe not by the loot cap changes, but they are by gem prices, boxes and locksmith fees.

[sturdy ridge]

I'm confused. I get resources while logged off. 26k per week for all my alts?

[pseudo quiver]

I'll try not to sound dumb. Even though I've had a few shots of vodka and fruit juice. (Wish me luck.)

Premium accounts can field multiple characters, one at a time, but we are still limited by how much time we can play.

Just so I'm not misunderstood, I have great appreciation for our GS4 leadership team, and how y'all are formulating goals and tweaking numbers to meet the intent without penalizing folks too heavily. I think many share my opinion, reading the many comments on this channel.

I think the remaining frustration comes from a few different places. I'll detail a few:

One I hear, is from those in my situation (light races, Halflyng lyfe) continuing to be hammered by heavy boxes shoved at us with no warning, and cutting hunts short and/or getting us killed on the spot if we are un-lucky enough to be SMR'd on the spot.

The other, is from hearing folks that roll 4+ accounts, in here saying "I don't see the problem with resource!!", when it doesn't affect them if they can roll those 4+ accounts enough # hours per week to burn 50K resource every week.

I think I'm close to char limit. So, am I pee-ing on the wheels of progress? I welcome constructive criticism.

[haughty jacinth]

My mistake I thought it was 250k per tier. Still is a massive chunk of silver.

[digital turtle]

I don't think the majority of discord users fall into the casual player category (myself included, even though I had been playing less and less in the last few months). But, there have been quite a few people coming in to see their income has drastically dropped (casual players). Anecdotal evidence for sure (I was making 40-70k per hunt and now I'm making 10-20k, and others) but I think it needs to be accounted for and not ignored. 🙂

[peak flax]

I think the issue with the Lumnis Donate was mostly just messaging. I don't love the idea of a permanent way to purchase xp, as that does further advantage people with bottomless resources, but that's just an opinion. But calling it 'a way to make the road to 100 more accessible' did frame it as a change to help the little guy, when it's really a silver sink for rich folks.

[fading flare]

Gem prices went up again, though I need to see how much, and the locksmith/box charges are optional though.

[north lance]

Ok simply put. I can not keep up with people that 2x more then I do. No matter what the change is. Just not possible. That has been this way all my time in game. The only economy I am priced out of is the high end gear. No I cant buy it like others. Instead I work and slowly build up my own gear. I also dont coin farm as I play for rp as much as hunt. No matter what they do this will always be the case. I simply live within my own reach and not worry what the top end does. I have done pretty good for myself

[crimson pond]

Well, the other piece is that a casual player likely won't play enough to consume the entire bonus. I would expect that generally speaking if you are playing enough to leverage the 5x donation, you're earning enough in that time to pay for it. But my sense of solo play, pre-cap earnings is limited to a few dozen levels on my lower level paladin who was earning a few million silvers per week hunting in storm peaks at moderate playtime.

[brazen salmon]

Something being optional doesn't invalidate that it's a hinderance, though.

Casual players have been complaining, maybe not in this thread, about the affects the loot changes have had on them.

It's hard for those of us who aren't casual to adequately speak for the difficulties of others when we aren't the ones experiencing them.

[fading flare]

It’s not intended to be cheap for a casual player though. It’s a deliberate silver sink for exp.

As to @pseudo quiver, we need to see if this new increased gem value makes new boxes lighter again, with fewer giant piles of silver. Hopefully.

[dusky kernel]

play enough to consume the entire bonus? challenge accepted

[peak flax]

As a small (but not quite halfling small) race player, I'd love it if we could add an adjective to boxes to indicate their relative weight before we pick them up. I see a box drop, I'm curious and want to weigh it, but do I need to drag it to a safe room first? No way of knowing what I'm about to get myself into, and boxes now can get VERY heavy.

[haughty jacinth]

To modernize progression and make the journey to level 100 more accessible, we are increasing experience gains:

Gift of Lumnis Tiers: New 5x and 4x tiers are being added, providing 29,200 and 21,900 bonus experience respectively, for a total of 51,100 bonus experience available weekly.

That screams for the non-hardcore player to me...

[jolly palm]

I do think it begs to bring attention to the idea that:
There are players who want the benefits of premium who only play 1 character. I bet they would get some Subscription upgrades if they offered a Sub-Premium where someone gets all the Premium benefits WITHOUT the Increased Character counts. $25 a month
Maybe also Sub-Platinum.... plat benefits, only 1 character slot. $40 a month

I'll only charge $1 per month, per sub for consultation fees.

[blazing goblet]

With the 5x (and 4x) on the front end, anyone who can afford it can benefit. Even if they only play 1 hour a week, that's an hour at 5x instead of 3x. (Not arguing for/against, just saying it can be a benefit across the board.)

[tribal relic]

wait so gemstone collect jewel
then gemstone equip one
then gemstone slot 1

that right?

oops wrong discord server sorry

[fading flare]

It took me about 16hrs to burn 5x Lumnis. About the same as the 50k resource at 50 per. That’s not casual either. Seems like a moot point. Casuals won’t have time for full 5x Lumnis to 0x.

If you play that much, 250k silvers isn’t that much.

[dusky kernel]

moreso if you play 15 minutes a day, dat offline exp

[frozen tusk]

The lumnis donate is fairly cheap from level 1 - 20
Level x 2000 silver
Level 1 = 2000 silver per week
Level 5 = 10000 silver per week
Level 20 = 40000 silver per week

This is very achievable for anyone collecting treasure and selling it. Anyone that claims otherwise is not selling the bulk of the loot and probably missing stuff, not attempting to skin at all, not selling gems, leaving boxes behind, etc. A truly brand new player might struggle just figuring out where to sell everything but any veteran player shouldn't have an issue here, especially with automation scripts like eloot that pretty much handle it for you with very little setup.

Once you get to level 21 it starts costing 250k silver per week. Even this is achievable. If you were completing a 3x lumnis I don't know how you don't earn 250k during that 3x lumnis duration unless you're not collecting all of the loot and selling it as stated above.

[sleek meadow]

I apprecaite the lumnis boost thingy but do think the cost tiering up should be more gradual over higher levels...maybe tier it up over the first 50 levels in cost? if people wanna just skip level 1-20 charge em $5 😄

[fading flare]

I wouldn’t mind a more gradual ramp up to 250k either

[pseudo quiver]

I can intelligently chime in tomorrow, on this topic. Starting at 1730. Cause that's when my Lumnis rolls over from last week.

[shrewd mountain]

With the change to gem values and the scarcity of boxes, my loot per hunt has dropped by around 60% if not a little more. I think your assertion that 21+ should be able to afford 250k/week is founded in the "old" loot paradigm.

[dusky kernel]

what level are you and what are you hunting (dont worry I am not going to give unsolicited advice I am just curious)?

[fierce lantern]

which is fair. With the most recent changes, see if this is still the case. (PS: Say Zombies to mess with Duffield)

[frozen tusk]

Are you trained in first aid and survival to skin?

[digital turtle]

I understand everything you're saying. I think I'm in a similar position. But that's not the point. There have been many people coming in here to say I can barely make any silver now. They can't afford 250k weekly lumnis. They couldnt before there was a loot cap! Staff knew this. They said so. The stated goal is to balance the top 5% and bottom 95%. They brought everyone down equally. This does not achieve it. It hurts people that play even less than we do the most. That's the point. It's not whether or not you and I have done well for ourselves. I can afford the weekly 250k on one or a couple of characters if I want to. Definitely not all. The point is the majority. The majority has been stated as not being able to afford 250k raffles. That's what I'm going on. If that is true, then this is a problem.

[shrewd mountain]

As an example... my level 24 wizard, grinding on arch wights in anwyn until OOM, was pulling 50k+ per full run before, and less than 10k now. No, she doesn't skin, but, I mean, wizard.

[fading flare]

So, I’ll add my request list then:

1. RPA orbs to help boost resource gain like they used to.
2. Maybe a more gradual ramp up to 250k for Lumnis. Like, 50k silver blocks at Levels 21, 30, 40, 50, 60.
   That would cost 50k at 21, 100k at 30, 150k at 40, 200k at 50, 250k at 60 and higher.

This is mostly because low-level loot is poor.

[dusky kernel]

I mean without knowing anything else, it sounds like you went from not being affected by loot cap to being affected by loot cap. Though I feel like you would know if you had looted 10mil of stuff so far? haha

[crimson pond]

Fundamentally I don't think lumnis donate is targeted at a from scratch, brand new character. Nor expected that every character will use it. To me it feels a lot more like "powerlevel my alt" which also implies potential for external supplementation of costs.

[frozen tusk]

Skins are a big part of the loot at lower levels. There are some areas under level 40 where you can make more skinning than at cap.

This has long been a know thing and complaint that low level mobs have skins that sell for the same as capped mobs.

If you're not skinning, which requires training, which is a choice, you're missing out on a lot of silver depending on where and what you hunt.

[digital turtle]

Then don't say it's to make level 100 more accesible. Call it what it is.. A perk for those who can afford it.. That's my main issue with it. We want transparency but it needs to be realistic.

[haughty jacinth]

Hunting Greymist woods today I've been averaging between 700 to 2-3k per hunt. Just tried Teras after hunting Cyclops, and the Lake area in Voranis making approximately the same. I am skinning (1x survival) and I'm not leaving loot.

Ramping it up based on experience would make it actually seem like it was for the rest of like it was stated. If it was intended as a sink for the top 5% I'm fine with it as long as thats how it's advertised.

[fierce lantern]

Also... Gem rates just changed like, an hour ago. I wouldn't discount Letereke's experiences the last few days. But, things were adjusted with folks like her in mind.

[dusky kernel]

this is right but not so relevant to what Latereke is saying .. they were pulling in 50k a hunt to less than 10k now. Skinning or not.. sounds like either they fell under the loot cap, or something else going on

[shell phoenix]

So my highest character is level 76 and I've got just under 100m in the bank. It's definitely making hitting level 100 more accessible for me.

[fading flare]

Silver reduction + gem values probably. They hit low level loot really hard

[shrewd mountain]

This. I didn't suddenly stop skinning, and I've never been the sort to leave even the least of loot behind. All my alts together do not and never have come remotely near the loot cap.

[digital turtle]

That's a awesome! Idk how long it took you to gather 100m silver though. If you can afford the 250k a week, that is awesome but... Are you in the majority? Idk. According to data given by the dev team, you are an outlier, by far! Doesn't that make you think a little?

[jolly palm]

If you're not hunting enough or earning to make 250k to pay for a weekly Lumnis Donate..... then you're not playing enough to get any benefit from Lumnis Donate anyways, and it's kind of moot. Anyone playing enough to leverage Lumnis Donate can afford it.

It's a way to reward people who play a ton by giving up some of their resource gains to continue to expedite progress. Especially when leveling up characters.

(The only catch to that I'd say is that I can't really vouche for how much a player makes in those first 20 levels if grinding.... beyond that, it should be fine)

[frozen tusk]

Skins [5]: a fog beetle carapace, a scrap of troll skin, a scaly burgee shell (2), a bundle of troll knuckles```

Greymist woods.  874 silver. 

I'm pretty close to loot cap this month already.

If I wasn't capped this would be a couple thousand silvers off of 5 mobs.

[fierce lantern]

It's also not a binary to buy a Lumnis Buff every week in order to have a faster leveling curve, or never once ever in any capacity forever. Even if you bought it once ever, and only gained 6 XP from all of your silvers, it's still faster than it would have been.

[frosty gate]

My OCD was appreciating my resources always ending in a multiple of 50. A multiple of 85 has thrown this into disarray. Please up the resource gain to 100 per minute. Rabble Rabble!

[fierce lantern]

Just cap your resources once to get rid of 1-2-3-4,6-7-8-9 values.

[finite trench]

I talked to my math doers group chat and it sounds like the offline resource change is really well targeted. thanks for revisiting and fixing this

[haughty jacinth]

And this is at level for the mob? With 1x survival I'm not hitting a skin every time, and definitely not a high quality skin.

[tender condor]

I wouldn't necesarily say that's true if the person just did nothing but like bandit train or hunted the same 10 poor things in the landing. i mean you probably can pay for it's just, you can't pay for like anything else (selling resource silver aside). but that seems like, kind of a fair tradeoff for choosing to hunt the poorest, generally easiest, things in the game too.

[dusky kernel]

50,000 / 85 = 588.23529411aaaaaaaaaaa

[digital turtle]

I don't disagree. It's just that it's creating an exp gap... for sure.... don't even get me started with the simucoin exp item tutelage fuselage or whatever its called.. oh man.. make that money.. I'll probably be buying it.. Will the majority? It's not an even playing field.. never was.. These changes do NOT even the playing field.. IMO.. The announcement statement said these changes were meant to even the playing field. At least that's how I interpreted it and I think many others as well. 🤷 If that's not the intent, then please let's get a more accurate mission statement.

[jolly palm]

I dont agree with your interpretation of their goal.... this was it:
To modernize progression and make the journey to level 100 more accessible, we are increasing experience gains:
I think the changes do achieve their goal.
It didn't say "to event he playing field" it's to "make it more accessible".

[finite trench]

man you can tell everybody is happier because they cut the post timer.

let's blow it up again. if you have a fixed 1400 pool that means you get maximum insta absorb from all bounties, right? premium has never been more optimal

[shrewd mountain]

*But not for everyone.

The stated goal sounds... "global," if you will. It isn't.

[dusky kernel]

CashLoNae's Tutelage, put some respect on his name 💰

[chilly berry]

If you’re not making 250k a week for lumnis donate I would maybe hold off on cash’lo’nae until you’re regularly clearing base lumnis.

It will take you more than double your playtime to clear tutelage. 25k base exp to absorb vs 14,600 for regular lumnis.

[jolly palm]

Nah. again, I disagree. "Making it accessible." Not the same as democratizing it between Heavy player and casual player to be at the same pace.

The stated goal seems to me like exactly what they accomplished

But we can safely agree to disagree.

[crimson pond]

Nobody is excluded though. Sure, I get that maybe not everyone can pay 250k every week - but everyone can earn 250k eventually, and make > 0 donations

[digital turtle]

It's fair to disagree here. But to me, making something more accessible and then what language was used for the loot changes? wasn't it balance? To me, making things more accessible and balanced go hand in hand with "leveling the playing field" (synonymous)

[dusky kernel]

Lumnis donation nets you an extra 51k experience.
Lumnis donation costs 250k.

A violet orb nexts you like 40k experience.
A violet orb costs (or used to) easily 10-15m.

[finite trench]

I've been informed I should never have mentioned this so please don't read this post

[frosty gate]

From what I understand you absorb 15 experience per 10 minutes while off line. So if you fry a character and log them off with 1200 experience in their head they will have 1200 / 15 = 80 pulses until their mind empties out while offline, one pulse every 10 minutes, so 800 minutes or ~13 hours. So as long as you log in a character and fill their experience up every ~12 hours you could gain (24 hours * (60 minutes / 10) * 7 days) * 25 = 25,200 resources offline every week.

[crimson pond]

My read of their statement and subsequent discussions was "we think post cap is where a lot of new development is going to be focused, so here are some tools to help get more people to level 100"

[fierce lantern]

Loot cap was meant to hurt top earners.
Treasure distribution was globally impactful.
EXP was meant to offer a way to level up faster.

[chilly berry]

Unrelated: selling violet orbs! 16m!

Keep in mind the extra 51k is also a ton more playtime. It’s like 12 hours of playtime to do the whole 5/4/3/2. then if you do Cash’lo’nae it’s another like 10 hours.

[digital turtle]

At least I got one reply from Auchand asking to elaborate (Again. Many have tried to elaborate over and over) and then crickets after that....I do think it must be something they are paying attention to and hopefully tweak

[fierce lantern]

Not Mutually Exclusive either~

[finite trench]

yes, my understanding of the changes was that they were intended to offer a smoother pathway to 100. obviously it's likely they will also help people at 100 and they decided that's fine. I do think the cost scaling could be even more scalinger

[dusky kernel]

aggressive silver cost averaging

[dreamy harbor]

Haven't been following this channel too much, but I'd just want to say thanks for adjusting things with the resources, I appreciate the GM team listening to all the feedback, especially the bigger xp pool on premium/plat that's a nice little unexpected bonus

[jolly palm]

Loot & EXP had different goals. They were clearly stated that way and made in separate posts to keep the two ideas separate. Your statement appears to be meshing them a bit.
I think my previous comment on EXP maintains. it wasn't to level the playing field or balance things. It was purely to make reaching level 100 more accessible.

RE: Loot - To address the impact of automation and balance the economy - where the top 5% of earners currently account for 27% of all treasure generated - we are making the following changes:
Loot reductions and impact to MA/alts will absolutely make things more balanced and level the playing field, RELATIVE to what it was before. It wont make it perfectly balanced. Anyone who puts more resources and time into the game will always get more out of it, pooling those resources.

[peak flax]

Because the EXP bump costs silver, the goals are linked whether that was intentional or not. The universal treasure nerfs disproportionately affect lower earning players (people who hit loot cap mostly still will, just a bit slower) and so it follows that the XP bump for silver is inherently less attractive for those lower earning players. It's still good, and 250k is not some crazy unattainable goal, but the optics of it are less than ideal.

[finite trench]

I do think that there's a big difference between "more experience per week" and "more experience per week, if you pay 1 million silver a month" in terms of actually helping new, never-capped players get to cap and play the post-cap game. the changes are still good but they do force players to do a lot more figuring out of the player economy to actually benefit.

[digital turtle]

Again, we disagree. They cut the top off and then tried to find a way to make it so people would not be loot capped in a 1 week by messing with boxes and gem values. That ends up nerfing the bottom too by what seems like the same amount they cut off the top, and anecdotally so far it seems it might even be more of a percentage loss to the bottom hunters that will never come close to the loot cap. This doesn't even balance the disparity. It reduces the total amount of silvers in the game, and prices the bottom folks out of the economy. The disparity remains thus not achieving the stated goal (nevermind other things like loot pressure and how the elite few know how to work around this system for max gains while the bottom players don't)

However, if the stated goal was "We want to reduce the amount of silver in circulation" then BINGO. Achieved.

When it comes to the exp stuff.. again, more accesible to me means a more even playing field, just like the the word balanced 🤷

[shrewd mountain]

If the 5%/95% issue and the exp ramping issue are genuinely seperate... why include a silver sink for the exp boost? As Tonari said, they linked the concerns whether they meant to or not.

[haughty jacinth]

In the spidersilk cloak:
Gems [2]: a blue peridot, a black deathstone
Skins [3]: a troll knuckle, a scrap of troll skin (2)

| Furrier | 178 |
| Gemshop | 205 |
| Total | 383 |

This is after a hunt in Greymist Woods at a level the area was designed for with 1x survival for skinning, kneeling to skin and using a dagger.

I'm swimming in the loot.

[fading flare]

This is an area that needs attention following the changes. Low level loot was overly suppressed, it looks like. Fixing that is key. Probably via returning low level loot to previous values, plus maybe lowering Lumnis Donate on a staggered schedule.

Can a low level character even go buy a vultite sword at the shop now? Buy deeds? Did those game prices get considered?

Etc

[jolly palm]

But we're missing the context of how much yuo've already gained this month

[finite trench]

Low level characters could never buy vultite swords at the shops

[warm agate]

Maybe I guess, I'm not interested in the "gemstone" game hopefully it's something else. Although I thought the EXP changes were to keep folks engaged so casual players don't take years to cap. We shall see

[sleek meadow]

they kinda could...if they were nuts and liked the pain of enternal grinding for pennies for very long periods of time...not saying I ever did it er...

[chilly berry]

Herbs are relatively expensive to low levels as well now.

Unrelated though: I love my new exp bucket.

[haughty jacinth]

I wish there was a way to tell you, but I have a total of 3m in the bank, so doubtful I'm at loot cap.

[fierce lantern]

Tykel Rone says, "Hmm, this order would be ready about 20 minutes from now."
Putting on your best poker face, you begin haggling with Tykel Rone about an appropriate price.  He must play poker, too, for at the end of your bargaining it's hard to tell whether he likes the settled price of 163,229 silvers.

[finite trench]

Not only did I do it, I played a warrior from 1-30 with no starting fund and tried to upgrade my armor as I gained armor use. That character got canned lol. There’s a reason why giving people 4x gear is such a common move for welcoming new players — it is valueless for players who have played for a year or two and vital but impossible to afford for actual new players

[digital turtle]

I'm totally guessing at this btw, but it might be important to mention that when it comes to the gemstone discord crowd, the top 5% are the MAJORITY... 😛

[shell phoenix]

I have so much 4x gear that I stuffed in a locker from duskruin

[tender condor]

Hey scraping together the funds to buy a sweet +1 con greatshield from the pawnshop backroom was more thrilling for my Hardcore character than buying an animal whatever at DR.

[jolly palm]

If you haven't spent a lot.... that's a good proxy for us then!

And also says that loot is broken as heck

[chilly berry]

Discord absolutely skews hardcore gamer

[rough vault]

There is no point worrying anymore about lower level concerns. The average new player is 20 in 2 weeks so why do we have 1x 2x 3x things anymore? The goal to accelerate to cap...current character farmers get that done in 7 months. Most good gear is sold for alternative currency anyway. The town shops should immediately offer 5x 6x 7x plain gear for all variants for 100k, 500k, and 1.5m silvers.

[finite trench]

4x flaring is good enough gear to cap! I heard this from a real life GM

[shell phoenix]

Making wizard essence worthless?

[shrewd mountain]

People would still want their perfect whatever enchanted

[sacred brook]

i mean it clearly is? like... obviously there's more efficient ways to be, but you could have a mithril broadsword and some imflass brig and you can cap?

almost everything in GS is simply how efficient you are at doing things, not whether they can be done

[ashen carbon]

I mean, for the most part it really is. I made it to 80ish on. 4x staff and self enchanted robes. Nothing else.

Yeah, my gear is better now at 97, but not THAT much.

[dusky kernel]

4x gornar can get you to 95

[frozen tusk]

We all 25k 4x gear on a daily

[chilly berry]

I have 2 guys in their 90s. One I finally put armor on using a 4x runestaff. The other is using a 3x runestaff and 4x robes.

It’s certainly possible.

[fierce lantern]

gross... use a 0x and eblade.

[calm bay]

I will say the pawnshop backroom resale is a bit out of touch with pricing reality. If there was a review on pawnshop resale pricing, that would be welcome. Temporary bonuses shouldn't cause the item to be worth millions. AsG shouldn't have a massive multiplier effect on prices either. I get the "lore" of a set of full plate requires more materials to make than some flimsy robes, but practically they serve the same purpose if they're both vanilla 4x enchanted armor just serving different professions.

[shell phoenix]

At 76 my clerics gear is all 4x. I don't even have sanct on my stuff, just using the temp sanct cast

[mental compass]

Was there an update / change to things? I must have missed it

[fading flare]

Updates. #development-announcements message

[digital turtle]

the more feedback the better, everyone deserves to be heard and responded to 😛 (especially when you keep in mind that the crowd here on discord is not representative of the majority of the playerbase.. something that happens too often here.. someone that is probably most representive of the majority but is usually quiet tries to speak up and the top 5% shuts them down)

[fading flare]

So, to update my list now. Three polite requests:

1. RPA orbs to apply to resource gain again. (They’re rare and this is appealing to make them worthwhile still even with 5x Lumnis.)
2. Low-level loot reevaluation. (It seems way too low for low-level characters to do anything, from buying deeds to Lumnis Donate.)
3. More gradual Lumnis Donate prices: Maybe 50k silver blocks at Levels 21, 30, 40, 50, 60.
   That would cost 50k at 21, 100k at 30, 150k at 40, 200k at 50, 250k at 60 and higher.

This is mostly because low-level loot is poor currently.

[granite tartan]

Pre-cap and post-cap people both being annoyed = balance

[chilly berry]

That is surprisingly profound

[finite trench]

2 and 3 on this list are very good ideas in my opinion that should be considered. (Not to say 1 is like a terrible idea I just don’t have much opinion about whether that’s necessary.)

[merry meteor]

Could you please add on there a verb that tells you where you are in relation to the lootcap?

[finite trench]

I think at the very least they should add a message when looting that says “well you didn’t find anything because you’re capped, take a break buddy”

[chilly berry]

I think I agree?

Haven’t thought through RPAs. I should probably stop saying “well these are worthless now. May as well burn through them!”

[fading flare]

They do feel almost worthless now compared to Lumnis Donate and Fash’lo’nae’s Tutelage. That’s the issue. They were so important before. It seems like a shame to start ignoring them when we were always chasing them. Adding them to resource gain would give them a better place again, plus desirability. Otherwise, they are way too expensive.

I don’t think adding them to that would affect anything much, in terms of the new plan.

It would make their inclusion in gift boxes more worthwhile again too.

[brazen salmon]

Feel free to send them my way!

[chilly berry]

I think I agree that they’re not in their final state in the new system, I also don’t think “these were so important before and they should stay that way,” is the correct logic

Disclosure: I’m sitting on like 150 green ones, 11 indigo, and 10 violets.

[fading flare]

250k for 51k experience is about…64 times cheaper than a 16m violet orb. Bit more even, since an orb only does 42k or so

[brazen salmon]

True, but violet rpa orbs have the bonus benefit of being useable whenever and not tied to a day. That still gives them use, yeah?

[fading flare]

But why buy them when they cost so much by comparison? Indigos from EG fishing too. Goodbye to most of the desirability there.

This applies to the battle vault, claim boxes, player market, fishing, event RPAs, etc

[brazen salmon]

Oh, so your concern is the resale price and not their actual usefulness. That's on me for misunderstanding.

I still find them extremely useful, but I've also always been a buyer not a seller sooooo I am biased here. 😆

[finite trench]

I want Leafiara in here to comment on RPA orb valuation lol. The main thing I would say is their price was not previously tied to any sort of plausible valuation of experience value so it’s not immediately clear why the price would drop now that the GMs have given us a valuation of experience. RPA orbs offer the same value in terms of free experience that they always have; they don’t offer the same amount of resource points they used to but neither does anything else.

[potent orchid]

I won't be spending my hard earned shards fishing at EG for them this year. (Probably still will)

[fading flare]

No, I mean, a 7.5m silver claim box where you got the book + a 2x blue orb (attuned) that was worth almost as much as the book was a good deal before. Now…I’d probably just save my silvers and not buy the claim box unless I really wanted the runs.

One reason I bought those claim boxes on alts was for boosting resource gain speed. It sped up running them a lot.

It’s also a really minor change to add them back to resource gain, I think. But important to me and probably others.

[rough vault]

Orbs put exp in bucket too not just boost absorption rate.

[rigid sparrow]

I would HOPE that fishing as a festival game would go away since fishing is a skill now and one with 40 fishing is catching a considerable amount more than one with 10 skill.
Keep in mind I'm the one with 40 skill
But that's completely off topic and a conversation for another thread

[rough vault]

The ebon gate fish are all farm pond raised, practically trained to bite bait like pavlov dogs... skill may not matter there.

[rigid sparrow]

On topic Loot changes- no junk means no ammo for junk cannons.

[chilly berry]

I mean they charged us 10m for violets like a year ago. 250k <> 10m

[modest lance]

We (read: me) are aware of this issue. Pondering fixes that aren't in the vein of "just press the fire button until all current problems are past problems."

[rigid sparrow]

Heavy quartz orbs drop often, sell for a minimal amount and weigh about as much as a cannonball. Just saying.

[boreal bobcat]

I have an idea. Make it generate junk bombs! xx amount of time it generates ammo, it can store xx amount of shots!

[brazen salmon]

I'm not knocking it, I was just confused. 🙂
I still see them as valuable, but would I pay the same price for them I have in the past? Probably not... but also we don't really base how much gemstones dust is worth by the price we can pay the artificer for either... so people might pay more than you think?

[finite trench]

RUMMAGE WASTEBASKET should generate trash and also make you smell

[modest lance]

Violates the law of equivalent exchange. I don't want that alchemist guild heat on me.

[potent orchid]

gold ingots, damage based on weight

[unique oyster]

I appreciate the changes that have been made so far but the box weight is still a real problem for haflings and gnomes. Encumbrance has always been a problem for the short races but this change makes playing one very dangerous. No amount of +dodge vs maneuvers is going to matter when you pick up a 60 lb box that takes you to Significant encumbrance.

[kindred ruin]

I was able to get deeds with dwarf-cut rubies again. Yippy! Now to try to make a chrism and use gems in my animalistic totem and if that all goes well I'm ❤️

[rigid sparrow]

Lol 187 pound ingot 1-shots the wyrm.

[mental compass]

After Just finishing putting a LOT of charges on a lumnis Brooch I'm like, what What? Seems like I just flushed $2,000.00 down the toilet.

Hopefully these get revisted. I don't know how, maybe boost up the rubs or the numbers or something.

[jolly palm]

Yeah.... Brooches might need some love based on the level of investment for them that just got a really bad haircut

[fierce lantern]

Just pondering the orb.

[fading flare]

For increased pool size? The instant exp still seems the same value to me. (Well, mostly. With 5x Lumnis, the value 1-6k extra a day is somewhat lower.)

[tropic creek]

Have people able to help clean the streets of their city to collect junk.

edit: New GS career title can even be unlocked - Trashperson!

[alpine walrus]

This got adjusted to let small races lift their body weight

But

Gut gud.....mo containers...deep deep conditioners

And 30 day 100# enc boosts from Simu store

And be stronk

[fading flare]

Add junk to the forage system inside cities (where there’s nothing at the moment in a lot of places). You found a chipped brick! Tree bark! A clay tile! Piece of iron ore!

@unique oyster For boxes, have you tested new ones? Does the new gem value help with weight?

[finite trench]

It isn’t really clear to me that a way to get more experience is necessarily a nerf to all previously existing ways to get more experience. There is no maximum amount of experience! ||kind of||

[devout bobcat]

Hello 👋

[alpine walrus]

Mo is always better

[chilly berry]

I invested a lot last year too. In terms of time spent vs reward it’s great. But in terms of total benefit…

[finite trench]

The total benefit is the same as it was last year, right?

[unique oyster]

I'll check and see what it is like now. And forget simu coin stuff to fix this. If I do buy something from the shop it will be race change to fix it permanently. I'd hate to do it but encumbrance > anything forest gnome offers.

Oh, and I'm max stats and run rank 5 armor support. I can throw on Strength and Surge but one box is still more than I can handle.

[vital badge]

can you ELI5 how this is the case?

[shrewd mountain]

...it took me longer than I am happy admitting to figure out what ELI5 meant. =/

[crimson pond]

Sounds like you needed someone to ELI5 it to you

[unkempt ravine]

85 instead of 50? What is innate focus? ..Not understanding innate focus; 85 doesn't seem like much of an increase (having not tested it mind you) to cut the time down. I am still not interested in giving enough hours for a job. Are orbs back in play? And no I've only skimmed.

[vital badge]

innate focus is a gemstone

[tropic creek]

Pushes it from ~16 hours to ~10 hours. Having the offline helps some as well since you don't have to be online all of it.

[unkempt ravine]

10 hours is still a lot for a casual player. I can't pass judgement yet because I haven't tested it but it still feels punitive from the way it was - for what reason? I still don't get why nerf resources since they are already capped.

[jolly palm]

It's less than it required before the updates.

[fading flare]

85 is roughly the average of old Lumnis (120/80/40) with a decent Logic bonus.

[primal creek]

They said they wanted them to be harder to do and be more valued. You might not like it but thats their answer. Its been stated at least 3 times.

[unkempt ravine]

Yes, I get that part. But it's still hours more than before the update. I just don't get why this is needed since a cap is in place. Why must we be punished with this time penalty when it only hurts casuals? It will not hurt anyone power playing bc they have the time to get to cap - cap that is already in place and has been.

[tropic creek]

Resource gain was tied to exp, by offering more ways to get exp faster the resource gain would have been higher than was desired so it needed to be decoupled.
Additionally it appears the offline gain wasn't initially intended to be like it was. Glad we got the 25/10 min offline absorb now.

[jolly palm]

Incorrect. It's fewer hours than before the update.

[unkempt ravine]

I don't remember it taking me 10 hours to finish resource - at least not with orbs etc. The logic for this change escapes me. It's a punishment for casuals with time restrictions. What does it stop beyond that?

[fading flare]

85 is actually pretty advantageous to those with a low Logic, like some low-level characters. It has to be evaluated as the full 50k to get there, since the first 14k exp won’t be as fast as old 3x Lumnis, but if your logic was bad and you pulsed at 30 exp per base (90 on 3x), it’s close.

[mental compass]

Could we Generate 51000 or 55000 a week. Give us a little lattitude for failures etc.

[shrewd peak]

100 per now would be closer to what I was getting before by way of rate.

[primal creek]

It is a punishment to all. They wanted to make it less common to obtain. If you think it doesn't punish power players you are mistaken and I don't feel like getting into the reasons why. But it is a collective reduction to resources earned based on time. It wasn't exactly fun earning 200k xp this week and not getting my resouces done either. I will still cap but its still annoying to me and a reduction. But that is their decision.

[fading flare]

I’ve been asking for orbs to be added back and to apply to resource gain again. #1461872047062908929 message

[unkempt ravine]

Trust me, my logic isn't bad. My schedule - that could use help!!! I am just disappointed in all of this. I really do not see the need to make it so difficult to finish resource when it's already capped. Yes a broken record but this all feels overdone.

[slate bluff]

All the change does it move around when you get your 50k, before it was like 5 hours to 35k and 5 more hours to 50k..... now its just a straight like 10 hours to 50k

[jolly palm]

Getting the first 35k is definitely longer now. That's a fact.
Getting the full 50k is not. That is a fact.

[fading flare]

They added back some offline absorption (about 25k a week if you always have exp in your head while offline). About three hours ago. It shouldn’t be so bad now.

[unkempt ravine]

I honestly don't know until I feel it in action but my gut response is; I don't like it. What's the rationale? I will do my best to do a wait and see.

[slate bluff]

5 hours, 35k, and out was still very nice for the alts I don't like to play but want some resources. I think alot of ppl probably hit that sweet spot and didn't care much for the rest.
And even at 5 hours you are still getting 25k so its not the end of the world

[primal creek]

The rationale is: They want it to be harder to add something they consider powerful. That is the entire position. You can disagree with it. Its okay. But that is their reason.

[frozen tusk]

EXP Modifier Orb Suggestion for resource gain:

Blue orb increases resource gain by 10 points per pulse while active.

Indigo orb increases resource gain by 15 points per pulse while active. 

Violet orb increase resource gain by 20 points per pulse while active.

All EXP Modifier orbs will increase offline resource gain by 5 points flat.  No increase based on color.```

[unkempt ravine]

I only care when I'm actively working on a high enchant project and that's not all the time. But I hate to think that when I DO want to do this project I am constrained by schedule. Again, I need to see how this plays out in the end I guess. I'm just disheartened by it.

[visual oar]

it takes around 10 hours to finish your boosted lumnis anyway, so 10 hours for resources seems pretty consistent with that

[sturdy ridge]

So now I'm getting 100k exp (if I tithe 250k lumnis) and 50k resource per week in 10 hours?

[unkempt ravine]

So too much x10 out there? When they've introduced x15 at DR.. I still have a feeling the bulk of the population is running around in x7s but I could be wrong. (I always used an orb and I save them for when I need resources so the time was closer to 6-7hours to finish)

[slate bluff]

No one probably experienced hitting 50k right as double lumnis ends
with 85 now they will

[chilly berry]

Eh. Total was the wrong word.

I’ll preface by saying: this isn’t everyone’s use case. And this is much closer to my foil playset of Liliana of the Veil falling out of the meta than anything I’m upset about.

Total is the wrong word. Total is exactly the same. But relative benefit to dollar spent went down.

To get the same 100k exp extra each week i now only have to pay $27 every 3 months or so. Whereas the 10x brooch cost $5,000 and is also 100k exp a week.

I’m not mad. Things change. This is better for the game. But also, a little oof.

@vital badge

[unique oyster]

@fading flare Here is what I got with the 26 lb and 50 lb boxes I found for this hunt.

>get tru
You remove a sturdy mahogany trunk from in your climbing pack.
>place feet tru
You carefully place your mahogany trunk on the ground alongside you.
>enc
You adjust your gear comfortably and feel satisfied that you are not encumbered enough to notice.
>get tru
You pick up a sturdy mahogany trunk from alongside you.
>weigh tru
You carefully examine the mahogany trunk and determine that the weight is about 26 pounds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>enc
You adjust your gear comfortably and feel satisfied that you are not encumbered enough to notice.
>place feet tru
You carefully place your mahogany trunk on the ground alongside you.
>enc
You adjust your gear comfortably and feel satisfied that you are not encumbered enough to notice.
>get box
You remove an engraved mahogany box from in the Hymore disk.
>weigh box
You carefully examine the mahogany box and determine that the weight is about 50 pounds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>enc
Your shoulders are beginning to sag under the weight of your gear, and your reactions are not very fast.  Time to unload, perhaps?
>cman surge
You focus deep within yourself, searching for untapped sources of strength.
You feel a fair amount stronger.
>get my w cry
You remove a white crystal from in your viper skin toolkit.
>rub my cry
You rub a white crystal in your hand.
You feel much stronger.
The white crystal suddenly disintegrates!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>enc
You feel somewhat weighed down, but can still move well, though you realize you are not as quick as you could be.

So even with Strength and Surge, I am still Somewhat encumbered with the 50 lb box. I can handle the 26 lb box but not much beyond that.

[fading flare]

Maybe gems/gem values/jewelry inside boxes could be increased more compared to silvers still.

[primal creek]

I cry with you in 2x 8x and 1x 7x brooch.

[finite trench]

I definitely understand that, although I would suggest that you can cashlonae AND use the brooch, so your max xp per hour is still a lot higher than somebody without a brooch, by the exact same absolute amount that it was in the past

[slate bluff]

You are seeing the glass half empty....... THEY FRICKEN GAVE EVERYONE "FREE" 10x FRICKEN BROOCHES! 🎉 🎉 🎉
Handing out those 10x brooches like candy....

[fading flare]

@unkempt ravine With today’s change, it should be about the same as before if you get to 50k. But orbs don’t currently help. Maybe they will add them back.

@sturdy ridge I think it’s more like 16 hours for all 5x Lumnis? Seemed to be about the same as the 50 per resource time for me.

[slate bluff]

Next we are going to get crumbly surita sigil staffs that only have 9,999 uses and drop 10% of the time

[unique oyster]

Checked the box contents: 24 lb box, 3153 silver, various gems. 50 lb box, 5447 silver, 3 lb ingot, 8 lb quartz orb, various gems. I'm blaming the orb for this one. Moonstone cubes and quartz orbs being a waste of space again...

[unkempt ravine]

Hugs - I will test next week. Thanks Fulmen, everyone! You know I wuv ya! heh

[fading flare]

And boxes always weighed like 8-12lbs or something base too

[chilly berry]

Like I said. I’m not upset. Just like my favorite deck falling out of the meta in MTG, but I can still use the cards. A little. Oof. But still good.

There is not FASTER way to get 100k exp a week. I ca run my brooch in about 30-45 minutes these days. That’s wild for time spent.

Not mad. And I look forward to trying to take someone to cap in 6 months time. After I get board with transcend destiny.

[frozen tusk]

Lumnis Brooch Suggestion:

The brooch already tracks absolute total runs for all options.

  Spiritual: 3,305, resulting in the ability to instantly absorb 1,090 experience
  Elemental: 0, resulting in the 0% chance to reroll various checks while on Adventurer's Guild tasks
  Chaos: 0, resulting in a bonus of 0 + up to a 10% bonus when used for other orbs
  Order: 0, resulting in +0 bounty points when turning in Adventurer's Guild tasks```

I have 3,415 total runs in this example. 

At 500 runs the lumnis brooch will also increase the total mind capacity of the wearer by 10%.  500 runs would equal an extra 50 total mind capacity.

At 3500 runs the lumnis brooch will also increase the total mind capacity of the wearer by 20%.  3500 runs would equal an extra 700 total mind capacity.

In my case I would have an extra 341 total mind capacity and could complete another 85 runs to increase this to 700 total mind capacity once I reach 3500 total runs.

[boreal bobcat]

Ewww, don't make me wear the brooch.

[fading flare]

Well, I don’t mind pool increases. It’s simple. Nice benefit. People would be pushing 2k pools, which might really not be a problem. Extra time away from hunting.
On a side note, Reim exp bonus from the emperor and empress caps at 1900-2k field total. Could be allowed to go higher? Other quests don’t cap there. It’s easy to hit with a 1700 pool from a brooch, so I usually let my brooch wear off first.

[finite trench]

Add a brooch side that gives you more pin worn slots for 30 minutes

[tender condor]

This proves i guess that 2.5m or so exp was the exact amount of extra exp needed to make gemstone perfect, as apparently no one wants to pay the extra bump that to 5m extra. Thanks brooch whales.

[slate bluff]

Random mechanics questions, isnt it harder to get exp near the end of the bucket? Like getting 800-->1,000 has diminishing returns or did I dream that? Will 1000-->1400 be even worse? (Wiki Down so I cannot check)

[boreal bobcat]

Value proposition changed. We were all also fine with the value proposition at the time of purchase.

I would like it to be cheaper to swap runs between spheres as a 1 time correction though.

[finite trench]

Yes there’s diminishing returns but since the wiki is down I have no idea what they are any more

[chilly berry]

https://gswiki-archive.gs-game.uk/index.php?title=Leafiara_(prime)/Mechanical_Musings/Rags_to_Riches:_The_Rings_of_Lumnis_Story

gives a good breakdown of cost per run

[frozen tusk]

I still fry really quick at 1449 bucket

[boreal bobcat]

Yeah that's like 70% exp from it.

[fading flare]

1670 from a brooch never bothers me either. Will be like a 2072 pool now

This bucket change does highly favor Spirit over Planar. It used to be you needed some planar to make the most of a high Spirit brooch.

[slate bluff]

So at 1200 you are only getting 40% of the experience from a kill?
At 2,000 experience you get 0% for a kill?

[boreal bobcat]

That's right you are correct, it's 1 - 70% (or 60 for 1200).

[slate bluff]

But with brooch how do I go from 2000-->2100

[frozen tusk]

Locksmith Pool Fee Suggestion:

1 silver x (lock difficulty + trap difficulty)```

[boreal bobcat]

With a bounty turn in?
Since you're over 1250, the bounty exp gets split and saturates you still. Just means you get out of saturation quicker for that next turn in. Without losing any instant absorb!

[wispy forum]

B

[chilly berry]

C

[slate bluff]

I assume the ppl who created this formula couldn't fathom someone having 2,000+ experience megabrain
But basically my lumnis will make my bucket 2100 and there is no way for me to get to 2100 through hunting
That probably needs to be changed if true. I am sure there is some whale who will be rocking 2500+ brain bucket too. (Assuming I am mathing right, need to test actuals)

[chilly berry]

You can always get to your maximum bucket size. Head can always get full. Just gets slower the closer you get to it.

[finite trench]

They can probably slap a 10 xp floor on, there is already a 10 xp floor elsewhere in the formula. Have fun killing 20 guys before your xp tick!

[remote sun]

might have to bring back the pre CA spawning pattern for that 🙃

[gusty crow]

Thank you to the Powers On High who made some of the needed tweaks before my Lumnis starts this evening.

[slate bluff]

How about anytime I kill a critter while at 2,000 non-saturated experience I get 50 instant absorb??

[frozen tusk]

Loot Capped Suggestion:

Players that reach loot cap and are earning 1% of treasure value will earn dust past the weekly limit and earn credit towards gemstone rerolls.

While this is valueable to some folks it doesn't generate more silver or provide something that could be sold since gemstones are bound once rerolled.

[sturdy ridge]

Would be nice to continue to earn something that will help my characters future gemstone purchases with non transferable restrictions. Incentive for that hunting beyond exp

[normal drum]

Don’t change brooch mechanics — just make them not account bound — so I can buy a nice one off someone who doesn’t think theirs has value anymore.

(Edit: sorry was scrolled up).

[mental compass]

I still have 1250 entries for the running that quest. Can I get refunded that?

[normal drum]

No. But I’ll pay you 2m — which is probably equivalent to like 500m last week.

[mental compass]

Or at least Take the total runs and assign it to each ability, giving us 1-2 extra rubs a day or something. Thats a lot of crash to dump in for something, and then it be worth less then say 4m / year in silvers?

[jolly palm]

ooooooooooh, now yer cookin

[zenith meadow]

poor brooch owners😭

[finite trench]

There are no poor brooch owners

[chilly berry]

the more I think about it brooches are still really good.

To use the 10x example. I can get 105k exp in 3 hours in a week.

Cash’lo’nae is 20 hours a week for 100k extra.

[mental compass]

Its not a huge compromise, it deson't make a huge difference considering but its something. I dunno just trying to find some happy medium.

[slate bluff]

Yeah, the big draw for brooches has always been the do more in less time

[frozen tusk]

While I would like to see a bump to brooches, I'm sure as heck not going to stop using it for an extra 8k exp per day.

[fast cipher]

They aren't bad if you have one that you worked up. The just math out horribly vs the new options so starting a new one is a pretty poor idea unless you just don't care.

[slate bluff]

As an early adopter of brooch I probably have retained enough value to cushion the blow but if I was just starting or just got my brooch recently....

[fast cipher]

Counter point if I miss a day I can still get full value in the the remaining days of the week out of tutelage but my brooch exp is just lost for that day

[visual oar]

"cash'lo'nae" lol

[dire rivet]

Happy about the offline resource change, hooray, long live offline exp! 💖
And yeah, seconding the brooch chatter, December brooch investments were... poorly timed.

[mental compass]

I made 2 brooches Like 14 days ago. =/

[frozen tusk]

Lumnis Brooch Suggestion #2

At 500 runs, wearers will earn a 10% increase to experience per pulse.

At 3500 runs, wearers will earn a 20% increase to experience per pulse.```

[boreal bobcat]

 You search the gigas berserker.
 He had a kelyn-edged faenor short sword.
 You discard the berserker's remaining useless equipment.
 He didn't carry any silver.
 He had nothing of interest.

It imparts a bonus of +8 more than usual.
It is an enhancive item:
    It provides a boost of 4 to Combat Maneuvers Ranks.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 20 times.
    It provides a boost of 1 to Dodging Ranks.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 2 times.
    It seems to have a lot of enhancive charges remaining.
It will persist after its last enhancive charge has been expended.
It appears to weigh about 4 pounds.
It is estimated to be worth about 800,000 silvers.
It is weighted to inflict more critical wounds, but exactly how much requires assessment.
It is predominantly crafted of faenor.
It is a simple project (24 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.

1% enhancive!

[rough vault]

I estimate it is worth 25k

[fierce lantern]

Got it. Feedback Noted: Nisugi says that 1% is producing nice enhancives, and should be nerfed.

Thank you for your testing

[boreal bobcat]

I'm showing the nay sayers the error of their ways!

[frozen tusk]

Loot Cap Suggestion #2

A player that has essentially generated 35,000,000 silver past loot cap would guarantee that any enhancives found would have a loresong value of at least 35,000,000 silvers.

This would guarantee a certain power threshold of enhancives for players past loot cap and open the door to possibly finding something truly incredible.  You might also find something with 50 swimming ranks.

Enhancives would be subject to regular limit of 40 base stat and 50 skill bonus or rank.

A player would be eligible to find 1 enhancive per 10,000 solo kills.```

[rough vault]

How long before players roll up a pawnshop bot with max trading and max influence named Hagglerbot to sell their loot once capped out?

[boreal bobcat]

Huh? Roll up a bot to do the selling? That changes nothing except you don't get the benefit of having the trading yourself. Trading for others is capped at 1m.

[shell phoenix]

There is a hard coded limit on how much loot you can sell for somebody else using your trading bonus

[primal creek]

But is there on racial bonus....🤨

[boreal bobcat]

Hard to say since I don't live in solhaven!

[chilly berry]

So maybe they let us bank brooch rubs? I’d accept that as a post changes adjustment! (Up to a week of them? A month? Not infinite)

[broken vector]

I was thinking the latest gem changes might have increased the cap on some gems but maybe they just increased the floor or the average? Saying that because so many of my gems from last week were not able to be purified because the cap was lowered and they were already above the cap...so I thought maybe I should try to purify them again (haven't sold them yet) to see if they will purify with higher caps but not getting any success.

EDIT: or the cap was increased, but still remains below the actual value of my gems?

[chilly berry]

I would argue doing a 2x-3x brooch is probably still a good value proposition. Beyond that… only if you hate money.

[boreal bobcat]

>;gemtracker search "blue sapphire"
--- Lich: gemtracker active.

=== BLUE SAPPHIRE ===
Total appraisals: 103
Value range: 700 - 3,600 (avg: 1,337)

By Rarity:
  unusual: 103 (700 - 3,600, avg: 1,337)

By Quality:
  poor: 5 (700 - 750, avg: 730)
  below average: 14 (800 - 850, avg: 825)
  average: 38 (900 - 1,050, avg: 968)
  above average: 6 (1,100 - 1,150, avg: 1,133)
  fair: 2 (1,200 - 1,250, avg: 1,225)
  outstanding: 28 (1,700 - 1,800, avg: 1,782)
  superb: 3 (1,900 - 1,900, avg: 1,900)
  magnificent: 7 (2,200 - 3,600, avg: 2,985)
--- Lich: gemtracker has exited.



>app sap
You peer intently at the blue sapphire as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for
flaws.  You estimate that the blue sapphire is an unusual gemstone of below average quality and 
worth approximately 1,700 silvers.

>app sap
You peer intently at the blue sapphire as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for
flaws.  You estimate that the blue sapphire is an unusual gemstone of average quality and worth 
approximately 1,800 silvers.

below average: 14 (800 - 850, avg: 825) before change
below average quality and worth approximately 1,700 silvers. after change

average 1337 😁

If I was a guessing man I would guess the floor was raised compacting the differences between qualities while the max value of the rarity remains unchanged.

Further reducing the value of 1004 in the process?

You estimate that the uncut diamond is a rare gemstone of above average quality and worth approximately 4,000 silvers.
above average: 14 (2,200 - 2,300, avg: 2,242)

[fading flare]

Weren’t diamonds maxing at around 4K or 4500 before this?

[boreal bobcat]

magnificent: 15 (4,200 - 6,600, avg: 5,120)

Not sure when the changes that adjusted max were pushed.

[shell phoenix]

I just might...

[old crystal]

and.. 50k resources done with time to spare (Fri noon). last 10k bit seems faster

[digital turtle]

they upped it to 85 per tick earlier today

[fading flare]

Regarding experience concerns...
Field Exp: 2,076/2,076
It only took two valravns to go from 1940 to 2076. No trouble filling the bucket. Bounty at 880 exp took it to Field Exp: 2,474/2,076

[boreal bobcat]

I guess we were neglecting things are over level 100

[digital turtle]

what a big bucket you have

[chilly berry]

That with subscription bonus and plane boost?

[fading flare]

Yeah, Platinum 400 + 600 brooch. 1076 base (12 months of Wisdom)

[frozen tusk]

Wisdom of the Ages, is a subscription loyalty program that premiered on 1/1/2025. This is a long term reward system for players who keep their subscriptions active concurrently and log in at least once every month they are billed. It is available to those who maintain a basic subscription or higher. You will gain +2 maximum field experience pool size for every continuous login month. If you maintain a Premium subscription, you will gain +0.1 base experience absorbed per pulse for every continuous login month. Fraction results have a chance to round up. For example after 8 months, it's 0.8 and would have an 80% chance to round up to +1. The maximum benefit would be gained after 10 years. The account has to bill every month concurrently and you have to log into the character at least once per month. If your billing lapses or you don't log in, the streak progress will be lost and rewards will reset to the entry level amount. Like Daily Login Rewards, this is tracked at the character level, so you must log in each character each month you wish to maintain the bonus active on. Starting on the second month when a bonus starts, you may view your current bonus with the EXPERIENCE verb.```

Now is the time for dev to upgrade all platinum subscriptions to immediate max benefit.  Sell them platinum upgrades!

Let's go!

Or every 50 runs on your lumnis brooch counts as credit for a wisdom of ages monthly boost.

[thorn rover]

Make lumnis brooch great again !

[tender scarab]

Orbs are junk now, relatively speaking, but I don't particularly mind or have much to say about it. I assume(/hope?) they're already rethinking orbs to some degree since they're used as Duskruin participation incentives, pay event claim box incentives, pay event vault incentives, Rumor Woods OTS purchases, Ebon Gate fishing incentives, game crash claim box compensation, and maybe other things I'm not remembering.

Now that gems are fixed again, my actual remaining primary concerns are:

• Rings of Lumnis brooches should be buffed in some fashion since they're extremely inefficient value now past 300 or maybe 100 runs
• [OSA cargo bins should be at least three times as large](#1461872047062908929 message) so they can handle new era boxes (either that or make ships sail three times as fast so we can make round trips for unloading)
• [LTE should be absorbed while Gift of Lumnis is active](#1461872047062908929 message) now that anyone donating to the temple has a Gift of Lumnis that's twice as long (this is more a suggestion that helps casual players than me, as they might never get through or even to their LTE)
• Something to mitigate the risk of [people buying pay event entries that they can't get full value](#1461872047062908929 message) out of, but don't know that they can't get full value out of because they don't know how close they are to loot cap

[ashen carbon]

You know I'm really not happy about this. Now I have to kneejerk react reverse my earlier kneejerk react @royal epoch I refuse to be pleased!

[royal epoch]

[fading flare]

I started this message as a joke, but actually, I think it might be important.

Fixing the loot cap for DR would be nice. Otherwise it’s really just an alt account game.

People might just start a new F2P character and let them run the sewers to get their monthly silvers…

Do F2P have a lower lootcap?

[devout bobcat]

It's mitigated because it's behind a paywall.

[fading flare]

Anyone can make a dozen F2P accounts to do the sewer runs after they hit lootcap.

[tender scarab]

This is a good point. In that case, there's no reason to have loot cap apply to Duskruin at all since it would be easily bypassed.

Edit: Alternatively, if they block F2P from Duskruin, then I suppose people who never come close to loot cap can rent out Duskruin-running services with their paid accounts... now that would be a fascinating inversion.

[slate edge]

F2P has a treasure cap of 50k silver per day without buying passes that can increase it to 100k silver per day.

[devout bobcat]

Duskruin entries are expensive though. Does the math really work out vs buying silvers?

[fading flare]

Does it apply to sewer loot though? (Maybe it does now?)

[slate edge]

Sounds like it will now that event loot counts.

Cap Exemptions: Treasure from quests and paid events is no longer exempt from the cap.

[devout bobcat]

Even if it didn't, it just seems like a very expensive way to bypass loot cap. I guess it would make sense if you were planning to do the entries anyway, but most people just gladiator now.

[finite trench]

I’m also kind of curious as to what “no longer exempt from the cap” means. Will the arena packages just contain nothing instead of a mediocre runestaff? Or will you still get the same stuff from the arena, but less loot everywhere else because you’ll have capped?

[boreal bobcat]

Maybe you're front loading your future months lootcaps 😁

That's only 600 arena runs to 15m at 25k per. So probably less than 1000 realistically.

[tender scarab]

Yeah, I suppose I've just been assuming that the arena packages contain nothing, but maybe that's not it.

[chilly berry]

This is a great list

Only thing to add is:

totems/compartmentalized quivers and things like them that folks spent money on assuming a certain value proposition.

[finite trench]

I don’t think brooches should be buffed but the other stuff seems right

[vital badge]

they should probably have their diminishing return thresholds adjusted, but no, the functionality shouldn't change.

[tender scarab]

I would count that as a buff.

[flat tusk]

Would it be too OP to have the Planar rubs absorb at whatever your current Gift of Lumnis is? They would of course also deduct from the amount of Gift too or else it definitely would be OP.

It might encourage people to do a heavy Brooch and Tutelage combo to increase spend but maybe that's too much.

[vital badge]

`Your account is eligible for the current EVENT offering, which costs 10,000,000 silvers.
Message: Enjoy a violet exp orb (account attuned), a 3-day +50% exp scroll (character attuned, expires on February 5th at 1am ET), 5 login bridges, 1 Lumnis schedule adjustment, a 6-use feather charm, and 5-entries to Rings of Lumnis.

Your account is eligible for the current GIFT offering.
Message: Enjoy a violet exp orb (account attuned), a 3-day +50% exp scroll (character attuned, expires on February 5th at 1am ET), 5 login bridges, 1 Lumnis schedule adjustment, a 6-use feather charm, and 5-entries to Rings of Lumnis.
`

[fading flare]

Alright...here's the test for orb value. Thank you for the CLAIM Event/Gift, but with a 10m price tag on a violet orb + 3-day exp boost page, I would lay bets that the CLAIM EVENT will have much lower than usual numbers.
I'm not planning to buy it because Lumnis Donate is only 250k for more than that violet orb.

[royal epoch]

I mean, or you could have both.

[brazen salmon]

Can I buy Fulmen's too, please?

[boreal bobcat]

+50% to your base absorb also shortens the hours needed to run through your new longer lumnis.

1 use orb?

[tawny sierra]

A months wages huh

[tender scarab]

It's like the last hurrah of the old ways.

And I would 100% sell the claim event boxes if I could, but they're attuned, so nope! Gift boxes it is, though!

[fading flare]

Does it affect it? I was assuming it did not.

[royal epoch]

I struggle with any of the arguments that people will just stop investing in ways to progress faster just because of one added bonus.

Gaining experience fast = good. Gaining experience faster = good... er.

[tender scarab]

Are you under the impression that everybody has basically infinite silver and/or money?

Serious question because that's the only reason I can imagine struggling with the arguments.

Edit: I mean, I do understand that there are people who throw tens of thousands of dollars at each pay event, but this is quite a minority!

[light ferry]

I just bought the event claim even though it sets me back another month for my 5th gemstone unlock 😂 but hey, I'm not gonna complain if they buff lumnis brooches!

[royal epoch]

No, but I think the prices on these are pretty darn reasonable.

Making 250k is very easy.

[boreal bobcat]

I can't say either way definitevely at the moment cause my brain is always foggy, but I think that's how the scrolls work? They adjust your base absorb rate which the multipliers then work off of.

[fading flare]

See, but I'm not going to spend my whole month's lootcap value on 42k extra experience + the page that I might not even use to its full value. Not when I can do 5x Lumnis 4x a month for 1m!

[royal epoch]

Buying RP orbs has always been pretty doable, too, for a certain crowd.

[royal epoch]

Again, though, why not both?

[tender scarab]

Oh, that's not what's in question. Fash'lo'nae's and especially Temple of Lumnis deals are great. We're contesting the thought that people will value orbs and Rings of Lumnis brooches anywhere nearly as highly, precisely because of their costs relative to the new superior deals.

[finite trench]

I think it’s possible that willingness to spend might drop just specifically because willingness to spend was irrationally high before and the market got shocked

[light ferry]

you have X amount to spend. You spend it on what gives you the best ROI until you hit that cap where you run out of X or feel satisfied with what you get for what you spent. Some don't have the budget or time or feel it's irrational to go far enough where brooches/event claim orbs make sense.. others do

[royal epoch]

I suppose we'll see. I just have faith in people's desire to go fast.

[fading flare]

It's because 42k exp isn't much to me. It's not even one ascension point, and only about two days of moderate hunting without any bonuses. And now I have a way to get 51k extra per week for a much lower price, so the 'time savings crunch' aspect of orbs is almost zero.

[crimson pond]

It's exactly the same as it was before.

[lucid latch]

Auchand confirmed as Ricky Bobby.

[tender scarab]

Not opportunity cost-wise it isn't, unless someone just has enough to get everything all the time always.

[glossy dagger]

I don't think there were all that many people willing to pay 10M for an account-bound orb to begin with. There should be fewer now that there 40x cheaper alternatives even if you can only get them once a week.

[royal epoch]

I mean...

[boreal bobcat]

Previously orbs had the benefit of further speeding up resource gain, they were not simply about experience. A lot of people used them in emergencies to make sure they got resources completed.

[finite trench]

Brooches were already vastly more expensive than the next best option so I don’t really know that the arguments about its relative value hold water

[royal epoch]

Gotta go fast.

[vital badge]

hmm, I'm not sure I would say getting 250k coins is "easy" unless you are defining "easy" as: punching things in the face long enough. I think I've made... about 100k these last three days? I suppose it is easy, but it isn't trivial.

[ashen carbon]

Shake and Bake!

[royal epoch]

I will say that the changes now have me convinced that I need to max out disarm and lockpicking, so they've significantly added to my experience requirements.

[fading flare]

Orbs were a very nice bonus when there were few other ways of getting bonus experience, and they boosted resources for that exact need. And they were extra valuable when added to battle vaults etc that already had a decent price. But by themselves (or nearly) for 10m....

[terse island]

I r in process.

[finite trench]

I mean the person we’re talking about already had the money for the orb or brooch or whatever and so they have the money for that plus 250k silver.

[fading flare]

Assuming you could get 51k exp x 4 a month for 1m, and can add one violet orb at 10m, let's compare the relative value. You're buying less experience than you could get by waiting a week for 40x more.

[crimson pond]

Buying orbs was never a good value. (except for the cheapo mania ones)

[finite trench]

You could always have just waited and hunted more in preference to buying an orb. That’s always been the alternative!

[devout bobcat]

I had honestly forgotten how fun blowing up boxes was. But man it is fun.

[fading flare]

The difference is I liked them in event boxes before and would pay 'something' for them, maybe a few mil, maybe 4m for a violet (about what my math said it was worth in a battle vault). Now I only want them if they're basically free.

[finite trench]

I agree that your perspective on them has clearly changed. I thought they were overvalued before and I still basically think that.

[tender scarab]

This feels like those mechanics discussions where someone asks what to buy at Duskruin and somebody lays out a $3000 plan even though the median spend is like $50.

Yes, many people technically have the money to afford both orbs and Temple of Lumnis donation (or Fash'lo'nae's or brooches). I'm saying that some percentage of them are unlikely to buy both going forward since they'll recognize the large gap between them in bang for their buck and perception will regard one as a ripoff comparatively.

(And I'm on the side that orbs have been basically worthless for years now, as people hopefully know. I'm just agreeing with Fulmen that I don't think people will really go for this 10m box even when they can afford it and might have gone it for last week. But we'll see!)

[fading flare]

This ^. Adding one violet orb accelerates your bonus experience per month now by less than 20% of all possible bonus experience from Lumnis Donate. Before, it might have been 42k bonus, but now there are better options to spend silvers on.

With lootcap constraining silver generation, the upside to waiting is higher. There is less reason to dump a heavy amount on that bit of extra exp. Relatively.

It's a combination of feeling more restrained with silver spend + relative value of where to put it for exp bonus.

[finite trench]

My point is that buying a brooch has always been a terrible investment compared to the next best option of “hunting more for free” and yet they sold a lot of brooches, so I don’t think the logic really changed that much. I don’t see why people would be pegged to “my current experience velocity with my current buffs.” If they were then they probably weren’t likely to buy a brooch anyway.

[wispy forum]

Special [2]: some silver coins, a bright gold ingot
Misc [1]: **a chipped brick**
Total items: 3```

WE ARE SO BACK BOYS

[tender scarab]

I wouldn't have called brooches a terrible investment before. Even at their worst possible ROI, the 11x/day brooch, you'd get 150,843 exp per week out of them (assuming you even missed the full moon boosts). If you can average 2500 exp per hour, which is fairly high, that's an advancement of 60.33 hours per week. In a vacuum, it's still impressive.

But, of course, nothing's in a vacuum and you can instead get 151,100 exp per week out of a Fash'lo'nae's Tutelage and Temple of Lumnis donation combined. You'd need to buy 342.857 Tutelages to cost more than the 11x/day Spiritual runs alone, not even counting the Planar (which has been reduced by the new bigger exp pool, at least), lasting 30,857 days or 84.54 years.

[sturdy ridge]

I think I just realized something. I was about to buy the EVENT GIFT for the juicy orb when it dawned on me...the real reason I used the accerlated orbs and hoarded them was to try to push my resources gain to completion each week. Same with exp boosters, I was chasing the resource dragon to always be able to provide the best ensorcelling in the lands. I now no longer get resources benefits from my exp benefits...which are an endless dragon to chase...and which may help my service abilities but not the resource collection...so now i'm not really sure I need to buy any exp modifiers anymore... ?

[finite trench]

I do agree that a major reason I used orbs was "I would like to finish my resource this week quickly" and that is a specific thing that went away about orbs. that certainly changes how I view them. I used to save them up to use one a week but now if I got an orb I would just always immediately use it.

[devout bobcat]

I am very happy that resources have been decoupled from absorption rate.

[fading flare]

Yep. I mentioned the same thing up here. And here: #1461872047062908929 message. @sturdy ridge

[frozen tusk]

Every rub of a lumnis brooch should award 100 resource

[bright pasture]

wait, why do I want +200 more bucket size as Premium again? won't this just mean I have to sit around not doing bounties for longer aka not getting instant experience from bounty turn-ins?

[amber osprey]

The opposite. You get more instant experience with a larger bucket

[visual oar]

maybe you can sell the fash';lo'nae thing when it's released

[bright pasture]

hm how much more instant experience with 200 more bucket?

[timber kraken]

I’m getting like 30-40 more instant exp from an ASC bounty that gives 880 exp upon turn in.

The bigger bucket is great.

[bright pasture]

so 40 more instant exp, but then I have to wait 4+ more minutes to empty it low enough to turn in another bounty?

[timber kraken]

No - you will be over saturated by the same amount as you were previously, I believe.

[frozen tusk]

Bigger bucket means you exit saturated faster...

[light ferry]

[You have earned 110 bounty points, 880 experience points, and 550 silver.]
Head: 1848/1422 (11m)``` got half

[rain reef]

I am holding out hope that another round of loot changes is coming that will shift things a bit more, since the goal was to "make loot more interesting." Right now... I feel like all that's happened is that we are getting more silvers-in-boxes and fewer/less valuable items-in-boxes-that-are-worth-silvers. So the change has basically just been... "more direct silvers" instead of items-for-silvers.... but it's still just silvers. If it's all going to be silvers anyway, I'd rather have a small, under-a-pound item (like a gem) that's worth 9000 silvers, instead of a box with 9000 silvers in it, but the latter is what seems to be happening for some reason.

The result has been encumbrance issues and frustration with disks and containers and what they can hold, reduced hunt time, impacted races disproportionately, and caused orb and chrism gem issues.

TL;DR: tune gems back up just a little bit more, reduce number of silvers in the box to compensate for the increased gem value, and we can all be happy?

[bright pasture]

i only see this, which is pretty small

Pool Size: For every 200 unabsorbed experience in the experience pool add an additional point per pulse. (Capped at 10 with 2000 field experience.)

[gloomy lark]

y’all never stop complaining.. the changes are great, the gifts even better, thank you Auchand and co

[fading flare]

Instant absorb is 50/50 split over 1250 in your exp pool. So at 1250 pool, if you turn in a bounty worth 1000, you'll get 500 instant / 500 into the pool and be at 1750 / 1250

[tender scarab]

For what it's worth, I haven't been frustrated with disks so far. I thought I might be because I expected that I'd find boxes that wouldn't fit in a basic 8-space disk, but it hasn't happened yet. I've maxed out at exactly 8 items in a box. (I have heard from a person who said they did find one that wouldn't fit, though, but it seems rare.)

I can typically only fit one new box into a basic disk, but on the occasion that I fit more than one in, it feels fantastic because I could literally never fit six before and that's roughly the equivalent of two boxes now.

The OSA cargo bin capacity amounts definitely weren't made to handle this since those are more strictly weight-based, though! And I remain sympathetic to small races for sure. And "Tetris"ing boxes around to fit them into worn containers, as Perigourd put it.

[rain reef]

The exp and resource changes that came through today were awesome and I agree with the appreciation for how well feedback was received there. Just the loot stuff still feels like some fine tuning is needed.

[amber osprey]

Without going into details, a larger bucket allows you to turn in bounties more frequently, and to get more exp/hour. There may be some niche downside that I have yet to think of, but bounty completion is not it

[light ferry]

OSA.. being hard loot capped may cause me to go do some OSA and grind for some titles

[rain reef]

I've had it happen 2 or 3 times yesterday, and 2 or 3 times today, where I have an empty disk and the box won't fit in it. Maybe I'm just lucky?

And my Bard has a lot of Air lore.

[bright pasture]

wow, isn't the disk base 8 items?

[tender scarab]

Huh... well, if it is happening often enough, then I do concur. Bump base disk size up to 10.

[devout bobcat]

That happened to me several times today.

[light ferry]

gotta sell those disk boxes that are supposed be able to bump it to.. 13? Although I think it's more than that. I don't have one anymore to check

[fading flare]

For the record, I'm not complaining about orbs without reason. I'm trying to explain that their relative value to me is much lower now, and I don't think they'll work well for claim boxes/battle vaults, etc, which is going to be something to consider going forward, since they were heavily used as rewards.

Adding orbs back to resource gain would at least give them some purpose that doesn't get overshadowed by 5x Lumnis

[tender scarab]

Oh, right, I guess various disk-adjacent items would also have to be buffed correspondingly for item numbers. Disk Creators at Duskruin, crate whistles, gremlins. Anything else?

[split hamlet]

Hmm, seems I have a lot to catch up on today!

[boreal bobcat]

Nah it's just a repeat of yesterday.

[tawny sierra]

I speak for everyone when I say we’re all sufficiently placated and don’t want anymore buffs

[frozen tusk]

Looks like folks still value lumnis brooches =p

[tender scarab]

They do still get notes, so that's not unexpected. It's a lower amount than it used to be, though! (People would regularly offer 250k per, if not more.)

[fading flare]

150k per is about 3.75m per 25ct card. That's...not exactly a high value. Half of the usual

[tropic creek]

Or are they now valuing their silver as having twice the spending power as before? 😉

[fading flare]

Overall, I think these changes are mostly in the right place now, barring orbs and some smaller adjustments.
(Like reviewing loot suppression for low-level characters, potentially, and a staggered cost of Lumnis Donate.)

[frozen tusk]

Blasphemer.

We need locksmith pool fee re-evaluation.

Lumnis brooch re-evaluation.

Some kind of carrot for players that actual hit loot cap so hunting feels worthwhile besides just earning experience.

[finite trench]

Players who hit loot cap should log off and stop hunting. That’s literally the point of loot cap.

[tender scarab]

Since gem values were bumped back up, can we assume that's the extent of changes related to chrisms?

I've been sitting on a stash of orb gems, hesitant to sort them and make any into chrisms in case the value requirements go down or in case chrisms are deleted or something. But the people are pining for chrisms because everybody else is hesitant to make them too and there's a shortage. 😂

[rain reef]

Aren't Gemstones still outside of loot cap? that's at least one carrot.

[fading flare]

They would be nice, yes.

[frozen tusk]

I think players and staff will be surprised at the number that hits 1% next month.

35 million loot cap didn't impact many, but if you were 1 of the many it absolutely sucks.

I think the new loot cap is going to impact many. I think the new loot cap is for sure going to impact lots of the people present on discord.

[finite trench]

Except you earthdiver you can’t log off until you get that third gemstone

[bright pasture]

you know, i find Ojandhaart pretty relaxing. i could sit there all day

[timber kraken]

We should RP some sort of lawn party in the middle of the town

[rain reef]

huh. Still some chrisms left in my Solhaven shop. Nobody wants happy chrisms, they all want them edgelord chrisms!
Edit: aw. they just don't want MY happy chrisms then. sniffle.

[tender scarab]

I had happy chrisms! And maybe I will again once I know they're done tinkering with gem-related things!

[fading flare]

Yeah, I'm apparently at about 14m already this month. So...not great. A little wiggle room left. I had to figure out how to use ;ledger. (Did, thanks to this thread.) Still need a LOOTCAP verb

[frozen tusk]

If the change for gemstones was already in to cut down on the amount of farming required that would help.

I'm only hunting this hard because I 100% want to find gemstones. Once I've found them, I'd actually sit in town and stop chaining bounties.

[slate bluff]

Now that RPA orbs are yawn.... need to add a new color one that boosts resources 2x for 25k worth. Although maybe once klocks get rolling next month we get tons of resource potions. 1.25m per vibrant!

[shrewd peak]

Definitely a step in the right direction, still too slow. Big thumbs down on using orbs for anything other than experience. Terrible idea to use orbs or anything we have to pay silvers or rl dollars (via bloodscript or whatever) to get back to where we were. I'd advocate to remove the off line resource gain in favor of an increase to on line gain.

[fading flare]

Orbs were applied to resource gain before. Not sure why you'd dislike them. They're rare enough to be fine for it. I don't think they're going to speed up resources more on a general basis.
The 85/pulse feels alright to me.

[frozen tusk]

The new 85 per pulse is pretty close to the old rate with lumnis.

[crimson pond]

Current state is faster to 50k than it was before the changes. If your normal state was always having an orb on for resources, it's a bit hard to find empathy if I'm being totally honest 😬.

[slate bluff]

It would be nice to have a resource orb (or resource potion) when you got like half day to finish 20k

[fading flare]

They were very useful for it. Also when you want to do the six-month Lumnis refresh. I saved orbs for necessary moments.

[shrewd peak]

I'll admit that overall it's way better when adding in the bucket updates, and that my specific use case is likely unique. I only would run a given alt until 3x 2x was done. Finish absorbing, then move to my next one. So I never or rarely would get a full 50K, it now takes quite a bit longer to get to that same total.

I get it. Still not happy it's been changed. Also initially they claimed the off line resource gain was a big problem, now it's back. None of it makes sense.

[boreal bobcat]

It's back but still decreased by ~ 10k I believe.

[fading flare]

Yeah, they didn’t want it to fully benefit people who primarily absorb it off-line, but now you can still get a bit. About half of your 50k if you spent the entire time off-line with experience in your head, which is unlikely.

[frozen tusk]

Personally, I'm fine with all of the changes with the carrot of bigger exp capacity given to us and the resource gain brought up to 85.

With those immediate needs fulfilled, I forsee everyone complaining about being loot capped yet again next month because far more people are going to hit 15 mil than anyone thought because no one was really paying attention until their skins and gems sell for 50 silvers or less or every mob is dropping nothing.

[shrewd peak]

I just never log off so it's pretty useless to me.

[bright pasture]

i'm hoping the loot slope is extended proportionately - or even more than before

[finite trench]

I’m glad they made offline experience functional again. That was the biggest error. The rest of the changes are good. If everybody in the game is loot capping that’ll be an exciting discovery.

[split hamlet]

11AM: Single account, multiple pay-per login. I love the idea, but they'll never do it, probably because it would be a ton of work. But it would help to simplify a lot! (like attunement and still allowing all your own characters to use it.)

12PM: Naughty naughty!/RPAs. I think it might be interesting to look at how Dragonrealms does their RPA awards. Players can essentially award them to each other.

2PM: Oh hey, updates!

• Gems, don't know what that means, hopefully someone is researching..
• Resource points: Seems good now.
• Field experience - Very nice, wish it were higher and probably could have thrown basic a bone but I'll take it.

3PM: Cooldown lowered, boooooo! Thank you to @chilly berry for doing math.

Made it to 4PM, so many words. Cooldown should be 15 minutes!

[gloomy lark]

I guess you probably haven’t gotten to where the cooldown was reduced to 2 mins so good luck

[split hamlet]

RPA Orbs + Resource gains. They're still valuable for the experience. Since absorption is no longer aligned with resources, I don't think RPA orbs should further speed up resource gains, especially since they've now been increased. This would just further advance the don't-play and get tons of resources when the exact opposite seems to have been the purpose of the new changes to begin with.

[fading flare]

Why? Just be in game to absorb the increased speed. Benefits casual play IF you have an orb. Has no effect on offline resource gain.

[finite trench]

dragonrealms RPAs are infamous for being a totally worthless system because you just give them to your alt

[mossy forge]

I fail to understand why its worthless, if your giving them to an alt.

[finite trench]

the RPAs themselves are valuable. since you don't give them out for roleplaying but for being an account you own, the SYSTEM is worthless for encouraging roleplay.

[blazing violet]

Maybe for some people. I seriously doubt that everyone would tell you that.

[blazing violet]

if we're following the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum as we always have, ultraviolet is next in line after violet for higher frequency/shorter wavelength

I'm looking forward to gamma orbs. So much experience that people just melt; GMs won't need to bolt people at cap anymore because they'll just fly right by (and die without the bolt).

[split hamlet]

We need a 15 minute timer during the day so people can only repeat their arguments 4x/hour instead of 30x/hour.

I wonder if part of the complaints surrounding the changes to RPA orbs is because some people circumvented the limits to amass RPA orbs during EG, and now they can't use them on resource alts over the next 6 months for no-effort gains.

I think the new 85 per instead of 50 per feels way better. I don't feel the need to have RPA orbs further increase the speed, especially for resource alts.

[blazing violet]

I don't think it follows that mechanics that speed up resource accrual shouldn't exist. The alt situation just happened to be one of those situations where a perk became something that wasn't intended.

[fading flare]

Well, if we summarize the requests in this channel so far:

1. Something more interesting to do to keep people playing after the loot cap. Whether that is gemstones, dust, or something else.

2. Maybe some updates to the Lumnis brooch. Even a free re-arrangement of runs on the orbs would be nice.

3. Potentially making orbs apply to resource gain again.

4. Reviewing low-level loot to make sure that people aren’t only bringing in 500 silvers per hunt and can get enough to buy gear, deeds, and Lumnis donations.

5. Potentially making Lumnis Donate have more gradual prices at lower levels.

6. A LOOTCAP verb.

7. Locksmith pool fee evaluation. Maybe even making the tip part of the fee would be better, or something else. I’m not as attached to this one, but people seem to like it. It’s true that it is a triple whammy with lootcap, silver suppression, and a fee.

8. Addressing box weight and adding more interesting loot.

9. Anything I missed?

With all of that said, I appreciate the recent changes today. 85 per pulse for resources feels fine and the field experience pool increase is great. Thanks for the adjustments.

(It’s a game we’ve been playing for 30 years. We all have opinions on the best way to keep it alive. These aren’t demands at all, just friendly ways that might improve life in Elanthia following the reduction in silver, resources, lower lootcap, etc.)

[chilly berry]

9. evaluation of things that use gems and skins for fuel: gem eaters, compatmentalized quivers, animalistic totems. I know this is confirmed on the GM list so I don’t think we need to add it. But if the purpose is tracking ideas it’s one that’s out there.

10. the only reason I think this is necessary is because of events being effected by loot cap now. I won’t rehash if I think it’s reasonable to have your DR entries subject to loot cap.

But I do think that this verb only matters for events. I don’t support it otherwise.

Even if there’s no verb, then give a warning at the start of a sewer run. “WARNING: due to the amount of loot you already got, don’t expect much my guy.”

I think one of the fun things about this game is NOT knowing how it all works. So I don’t support the LOOTCAP verb in general.

[fading flare]

DR allowing extra bloodscrip to replace the loot is a fair trade off to me, even though I did like accumulating some silvers from it.

[split hamlet]

1. I would love something, anything once loot capped so that hunting isn't solely for the purpose of experience. I liked the dust suggestion so that gemstone rerolling wouldn't feel so punishing. It could also be a select set of BOOSTs like the 2 daily freebies that you get from the first 2 searches. I forget what they're called.

2. Brooch upgrades would benefit me, but I'm slightly concerned that it would just be a massive amount of experience. It's still a benefit above what we can currently get, even if it's more expensive than expanded Lumnis.

3. Orbs should not apply to resource gains. I imagine this is included in the summary because one person mentioned it over and over and over all day long.

4. I wonder if part of the gem changes were to increase the rewards for hunting as level progresses. It should feel like the gains are more than the losses though.

5. I thought this was already a thing?

6. Previously asked for and denied, but it would be nice to not rely on a 3rd-party script to see it.

7. I'd still prefer silvers being removed from boxes to account for the fees, even if that meant a lower loot cap.

8. Agreed that box weight will probably be a huge problem. And I'm not looking forward to how tedious I think it's going to be to manage these heavy boxes for eternity. Unless we get something like access to deepening up to 1000lbs.

9. You missed the part where people who took advantage of a loophole to amass RPA orbs feel entitled to perks for doing so. I think it should be chalked up to a lesson learned.

[fading flare]

I do agree that a straight LOOTCAP verb is not very RP friendly. Maybe it could be something like a line added under Silver/Wealth.
“You recall that you have discovered a great deal of treasure this month. It might be hard to accumulate more without significant effort.”

It could have a couple of different levels depending whether you are at soft or hard loot cap.

Alastir, my interest in orbs for resource gain is purely because I liked to saved them for alts from claim event boxes. I am hardly the only one. If I can’t do that, I’m not going to buy as many claim boxes.

[dusky kernel]

In addition to lock and keys, make a tier of treasure one step below vibrant klock rewards and have a chance for them to appear directly in boxes...maybe 1% of all ingots have a chance to be a "cracked" vial

[gloomy lark]

4. Yes exactly

The old system allowed lvl 5s to find uncut diamonds off goblin boxes, new system doesn’t. (new tip, if you have a gem bounty then make sure you are hunting creatures that drop that gem tier otherwise you won’t find it)

[dusky kernel]

First impressions it sounds like resource is being boosted offline -- not a straight 25, but affected by lumnis multiplication

[peak flax]

5 is partially a thing, in that it scales from 2k - 40k from 1-20, and then at 21 jumps immediately to 250k. There have been several requests to have it scale more gradually from 21-100, considering low level loot got hit pretty hard.

[warm agate]

Wait, what? They are going to charge us, at the Simu store for passes to run the sewers and then count the loot earned there against the cap? Oh bother, that irks me.

[vital badge]

I think that was what Leafiara was concerned about. She wanted a way to see how far along in the lootcap you were so you could adjust to a BS only setup if you were at the cap. Otherwise you would be burning unobtainable loot for nothing. (other than the xp I suppose.)

It might be nice if the game detected that state and just auto-adjusted you to the additional BS setting. Automagically.

[warm agate]

I feel like it should be separate entirely if we are to pay REAL cash to play. It would be different if entry fees were sold in silver , but they are not.

[vital badge]

I'm agnostic on it, but I can see your point. How you pay to enter is irrelevant to me. But, if the stated goal was to unilaterally reduce silver input into the game, pay events probably shouldn't be excluded as they were. It would be counter to the stated goal.

[warm agate]

Likely they will suggest the NPC turn in will be the path around that.

[vital badge]

it already was, but if you wanted to risk it for the biscuit and get the opportunity for smithy invites and other event drops, it should still be an option

[warm agate]

Right, I was just thinking that because with the NPC I can't find a rat or get a title, or other scrap of fun stuff.

[vital badge]

and taking the processing power off the player and handling it on the back-end if you didn't want to expose the lootcap would be the best way to do it IMO. With the monsterbold message saying that when you enter the activity.

"YOU ARE NO LONGER BENEFITING FROM GAINING LOOT FOR THIS RUN."

[split hamlet]

There used to be a pay quest? where you would get cubes, that had gems in them. So many silvers were made from that event.

I think it makes sense for all loot to count towards loot cap, even event loot. You do have the option to take bloodscrip instead.

I wonder how they'll do it exactly, I wouldn't be surprised if the loot option is just simply removed. Most of the loot drops have gone to little value anyway compared to what they originally were.

[vital badge]

it feels weird being clear minded with 700xp still in the tank.

[chilly tulip]

With Gemstones existing I don't see a reason to do the Arena at all unless you just really like doing it. I just turn books in to the npc if I need Bloodscrip. But, when I used to do Arena, I moved to the extra BS the second I got the chance to. I hated dealing with package loot.

[minor falcon]

I haven't done arena since gemstones released. But these days I don't even hunt for gem 2 or 3 intentionally

[tender scarab]

The loot was still worth more than the bloodscrip on average, but that might not be the case anymore with the 25k pawn cap. Still, the real wins were the occasional incredible item that you might find in a few thousand runs that someone would buy for 5m-25m.

Maybe they could invent a new alternative to the current loot/bloodscrip/exp awards. If it remains only those (and assuming my understanding is correct that we won't get Duskruin loot if we're loot capped), I'm just going with the gladiator and then heading right back out to find Gemstones and Dust.

[warm agate]

I don’t play the gemstones game

[vital badge]

<sad gemstone noises>

[jolly palm]

At 25k, loot would still be a way better return. Previously, it was generating about 10m per 100k BS farmed.
Whereas extra BS was about 3.3k per 100k BS.

Pawnshop update would make it around 7m per 100k.

Pre-Loot cap, of course.

Loot cap being applied combined with cheaper ways to expedite exp gains might be the nail in the coffin for cheap BS on the secondary market.

[split hamlet]

I stopped doing the loot because the 35k(25k) loot was becoming less and less. Maybe it's bias confirmation or something but it just stopped being worth the hassle of loot management to me.

[jolly palm]

It definitely felt like the odds of finding good Enhancives completely disappeared the last event or two…. But Auchand or Nyxus stepped in at some point and confirmed that nothing had been touched/changed.

[split hamlet]

I believe there's a comment from Wyrom somewhere talking about how the level of the loot found was very high level originally. It feels like it has been continually lowered.

[sleek meadow]

New level 100 wizard spell. Greater Disk. 20 slots. I think this would make wizards very popular. Actually we all need a new level 100 spell. And free portals between all the towns. But I’ll settle for the big disk first. Also I wanna check with Leafi about $50 being the median amount spent at DR…you mean per character, account, or player or was that just a WAG?

[old cedar]

just need to allow the existing disk lore bonus to apply to others when cast.

[fading flare]

Self-cast gets half or so from Air Lore. I have 11, I think

[vital badge]

I think lore is wizard only
unless you mean SK, then I dunno

[sleek meadow]

A greater disk spell would solve this and also make a new market for those custom disk spell fluffy things. 20 slots and 1000lb. They should also let non disk casters still use custom disks so when one is cast on you it gets your special effect.

and since its temp and black crystals only do lesser it would not wreck any economy just make it a bit nicer

[fading flare]

I’ve tested it before. The documentation just isn’t up to date. I’ll do it again later.

[alpine walrus]

Sure disks fix would be nice
But that's also a factor in the Silverageddon I suspect

But the value of Deeper and WR containers is huge now foooo shooo

[warm agate]

I occasionally find a sweet piece, I personally like the loot, granted I also loved digging so there is that

[jolly palm]

Just a thought, but what if LUMNIS DONATE also gave a 2x resource bonus for the first 15k resources (so gets to 30k quicker).

Or maybe a separate donation, focused on those that want resources... then people can choose to do LUMNIS or (RESOURCE GOD) Donate.... or do both!

[split hamlet]

Wednesdays at 18:55, in-game time

This refreshed last night, and I did a random hunt when things were quiet long enough to get one in and I'm already at 22k resources. (4, maybe 5 hunts total)

I feel like the most recent changes put resource gains in a good place.

It should take some effort to max them, because it's obviously worth the reward for doing so since people want it so badly.

[vital badge]

I've spent about 3hrs this morning and am at 13k

So, at my current pace, it's looking like 16hrs to full cap.

[sleek meadow]

A donation to Eonak for resource absorption boost I like it

[vital badge]

• Eonak remains unmoved by your paltry donation.

[jolly palm]

This jives with what I was seeing yesterday. I needed to farm 20k resources for a cast for someone, and it took about 4 to 4.5 hours.... I think i had a little no exp / non-resource generating time mixed in there too.

[gloomy lark]

I think you all should stop while your ahead 🫣

[remote crane]

That was a bug and has since been resolved.

[rough vault]

Perhaps a new rare loot treasure item could be added that would add 10 to suffused resources.

[dusky kernel]

yes

[potent orchid]

Has anyone had a chance to look at lootcap and gems/skin values for items that are charged by them? A bundle of dreadsteed skulls added a single charge to my totem last night.

[dusky kernel]

Im gonna guess Avaluka is the only one who can really effect change on the totems, so it might not be until she gets a chance to look at them (assuming thats something they wanna do)

[potent orchid]

Oh yeah may be WAI, which is fine but someone just tell me

[remote crane]

Avaluka has a pending update to resolve it. It'll work like skinning bounties, which will use the original value of the skin before treasure cap modifications (for newly created skins since this [announcement](#development-announcements message) went live).

[rough vault]

Instead of increasing the sale value of gems, why not add some factor based on trading skill and Influence bonus to the functional value of a gem for the purpose of its use in various spells and items that discern gem value in the formula.

[split hamlet]

That should actually make them way more useable for the entire month.

[strong lake]

Yeah, I'll have to break my animalistic totem out of storage when the update hits. I was basically forced to mothball the thing a while back.

[frosty gate]

Holy heck, I'm flying through the resources now.

[vital badge]

it's faster, for sure
I'm at almost 5 hours now, and 22.5k resources

[calm bay]

IMO, its almost faster than it was before unless you were primarily doing resource gathering while offline. I personally like the more even gathering rather than that last 12k resources being a big slog.

[crimson pond]

It's definitely faster overall for the full weekly limit, just not frontloaded like it was before

[sacred brook]

faster to get 50k, slower to get 30k is my take.

[dusky kernel]

that is the math yes

[knotty copper]

The 25000 library resource works too.

[vital badge]

make sure you poke something into your brain before rubbing the lantern, it will add the 25k to your old total if you forget

[cold zephyr]

Folks seem a bit miffed about the loss of resource gains from experience orbs. Perhaps go a different direction with them....allow the orbs to give pause to the loot cap. The timer will be real time, so once you rub that orb that's when the timer starts and if you log off the timer keeps going or it lasts until the experience boost wears off, whichever comes first.

Green orbs = gives 30 minutes of loot cap pause
Blue orbs = gives 1 hours of loot cap pause
Violet orbs = gives 1.5 hours of loot cap pause
Indigo orbs = gives 2 hours of loot cap pause

This way those folks that are at loot cap or in the slow down for loot cap can get a little reprieve from it if they have orbs to rub. There are only so many orbs out there and you can't stack rubs on the orbs, so if the loot cap timer wears off and you still have orb experience to use, then you have to get through that orb experience before you can rub another for a loot cap pause.

[knotty copper]

Well ya, the library,,does not give you experiance just resourse. You have to practice what you learned for experiance.

[vital badge]

no, I meant you need to start lumnis for your resource tank to reset
otherwise you'll waste it

[sacred brook]

One interesting thing I think about the changes is that while it may discourage an army of alt characters, I actually think it provides a lot of incentive to run two characters per account for me whereas that has not been something I did much. If I have a main and buy fashlonae with it, that's about 54k of base xp. that's about 5 days for me on average. Say I average 10.8k a day (in reality it's a lot more some days and some days of little or no play but whatever)

I'm not going to buy fashloenae on a non-main character except in weird circumstances, but I WOULD buy the lumnis donate for 250k silver. If I'm making 10.8k xp average a day on my alt for the other two days a week, with donate that's almost all of the 5x, 4x and 3x (21680=97% of 3x). Meaning I'd have gained a total of 87.6k experience whereas if I played that on my main, I'd have gained 21.6k xp. I might value the experience more on my main, but earning 4 times more on an alt is enough I'd rather do that. In comparison, without donate my alt would only earn 36.5k in that time -- not enough for me to really want to do that unless I was in it for the resource gen.

[knotty copper]

I'm in it for the fun! Are we having fun yet?

[rigid sparrow]

it is faster to 50k for most by just a hair. it's basically 2x exp resource gains all the time, if normally you gain 42.5 exp per tick (edited because... coffee before math)

[vital badge]

I'm not not having fun, does that help?

[tender condor]

People seem to be having trouble visualizing the changes. This is an obviously dumbed down with some assumptions on your average tick. The dotted lines show the extreme max you would get if you literally did nothing but ensure you were offline with exp in your head 24/7 (like just log on, gem bounty, log off). The last round pretty much achieved everything they said they wanted to do and compromised a bit to meet people actively playing in the middle on total time. Unless you were literally always on an RPA it's faster now. They compromised on the offline piece and now effectively you can only get 50% of your max from offline (previously it was more like 80%)

edit: had a typo, reuploaded graph below

[rigid sparrow]

if you choose to donate the 250k for 5x and 4x, your resources should be done before your lumnis

[fading flare]

Containers [11]: an off-white cotton sack (11)
Total items: 11

Elemental Lore - Air...............|     171      71```
Scroll cast. Rune tattoo, technically.

[vital badge]

so SK?

[crimson pond]

No, scroll tattoos are not SK

[tender condor]

(had a typo, the 2x slope on the old lumnis method was too short. i am being pretty generous also with the average exp per tick expeted here, but it's just for a general idea this isn't scientiffic at all lol)

[vital badge]

updated wiki

[alpine walrus]

Sorry to tag...
But will that be for skins and gems in the Totems
????

[cold zephyr]

Anyone that casts disk from item/scroll that isn't a native caster of MjE - you need 2x the lore requirements to equal the same lore requirement for wizards.

Anyone could get +1 to their disk if they are not a wizard, trained up to 20 air lore ranks and provided their self through an item/scroll.

[rigid sparrow]

on one hand, i see the opportunity for abuse by using only super low value selling skins for the totem (fog beetle carapaces at loot cap), on the other hand, totems are super ridiculous to charge and i see 0 issue with this. I can go through 500 charges on a t5 swift strike totem in one hunt. the totems 100% should only use 1 charge per flare no matter what tier

[chilly berry]

I know that I’m not the average on discord with this one, but I was primarily just getting through lumnis resources on most of my character characters. I hated the tail end of the grind. So I skipped it. I didn’t do much offline gathering.

I’m grateful for these changes because it makes the full 50 K bucket feel attainable to me.

The only character that I would regularly get full resource on is my main on my main account. Even on the other accounts, I would usually stop around 40 K resources for the week. I just hate it when a game feels like a grind.

I would venture to say that at this point resources, overall are improved from where they were before, even if they do require a more substantial time, commitment to get the full 50k then they used to.

One thing I’d like to add I think to the discussion in general:

I feel like after the updates yesterday that the new system is in a place where we can be a little bit more slow and deliberate about future updates and improvements. Give the GM staff a chance to get some data. And then make decisions off of good data rather than player feel.

Of course it all feels bad. This is a “big number go up” game and our big number all went down.

I know that there are other changes that people would still like to see now, and some systems that do need reevaluation that are in the list to look at already, but I would sure rather there is time to be thoughtful about the tweaks going forward.

Meanwhile, I’m gonna grab myself some 9X lumnis next week with my brand new shiny Violet orb from the claim.

[vital badge]

that's now how cash'lo'nae works... that's not how any of this works!

[shrewd peak]

You're not alone, I did close to the same thing.

[sturdy ridge]

You must tithe one perfect weapon

[blazing violet]

3. It hasn't just been one person talking about orbs and resource gains. I've also been vocal in support of the idea. If we want to keep exp and resource mechanics separate, that's fine too, but it doesn't make sense to not have a mechanic available with some level of rarity that speeds up resource gains. Sometimes there are weeks where you're just not gonna get there for whatever reason, and the orbs were always a nice safety option for that. Make it a pyramid instead of an orb or a cube, I don't care. There should be something.

[rigid sparrow]

resource changes:
@36 exp per tick, it would take (with old lumnis) around 420 minutes to complete lumnis (not counting variables like times you are saturated and get more than 36, or closer to belled and getting less than 36). this is 37.5k resources. with the new system in 420 minutes you gain 35.7k in the same scenario. after lumnis, instead of getting 36 exp and resource per tick, now you get 85 per tick.

old system- 420 minutes on lumnis(37,500), 345 minutes minutes to cap resources @36 per tick.

new system- 420 minutes on lumnis(35,700, 168 minutes to cap resources @85 per tick.

[jolly palm]

I feel like this should be pinned. This is a really good example of the type of thing that could be created or shared when updates are made to help folks see the impact of the change.

Also , thank you for putting that together @tender condor

[rigid sparrow]

this system is in place. it's in the library in fwi.

[blazing violet]

I meant a resource that could be used on more than one character in a week and doesn't cost premium points. While I like that the lantern exists and I've used it in emergency situations, it does not require any playtime to receive the boost. Something that works like the orbs did would require you to be in-game and earning experience.

[fading flare]

It's a huge waste to spend premium points on resource, to me

[vital badge]

it's 25 a week

[chilly berry]

Also:

kudos to dev team for the gem value improvements. I feel like these are in a much better place relative to the new loot cap

[rigid sparrow]

i agree. to some people it is a waste because they use premium points for other means. but you can't have your cake (not playing) and eat it too (getting all the benefits that people who play more get)

[mortal nexus]

Can we get less clothes drops please? Pretty please? Or at least make them cute or functional. OMG so many clothes.

[fading flare]

It's one method, but not a worthwhile one to me, because you're spending something rare to get something common (if limited). That's net at best and negative at worst.

[rigid sparrow]

tbh, spending 25 pp on 25k resources a week on your wizard that never hunts is 200 PP for 200k essence. you can't get that much enchanting done for those PP's

[chilly berry]

It’s funny this whole process of implementing these changes reminds me of a thought experiment that my AP history teacher had with us in high school. He went on a 10 minute tirade day one of class about how we need to be studying three hours a day. And doubly so on weekends.

He spoke at length about how much writing we need to be doing in order to be competitive and if we’re not willing to do these things, then we’re wasting our time and we may as well drop AP history right now because there’s no way we will be successful.

And then after his 10 minute rant, which was a very compelling and impassioned speech, he said incredibly calmly with a smile on his face,

“now after listening to all that, do you really think it’s too much that I’m gonna ask you to do 45 minutes of homework a day?”

In this context, the GM staff is my history teacher. Loot cap is free time lost by doing homework.

[south trail]

This is what a longer hunt looks like for me now. Am I in loot cap? I can't tell

[chilly berry]

Not remotely. I get about 10k on a belled to fried hunt with some luck (mid levels)

I get 2k in skins on my loot capped character after four or five hunts to fill my satchel (satchel usually sells for 220k)… and nothing else.

[potent orchid]

That is definitely not loot cap. I hunted one of my alts last night and made roughly 1,500 silver after maybe 15 minutes or so (yes I know loot pressure in Den of Rot is terrible too)

[south trail]

Hopefully that's not the norm. making 1/2 or 1/3 of what I did before. I guess it won't matter since PRICES ARE DR ARE GOING TO BE 50% OFF right. c'est la vie.

[chilly berry]

I mean, everybody is making 1/2 to 1/3 of what they were before it seems (or less). So we’re all in the same boat. It’ll just take adjusting.

[boreal bobcat]

I still find enhancives at 1 percent loot. An occasional gem. Even found a wand someone left behind too! And my 12 silver skins of course.

[mortal nexus]

Why would DR prices be less? It's a different currency.

[vital badge]

score!

@mortal nexus they wouldn't. The relative exchange value of silver might go up, but the currency itself would be the same price dollar for dollar.

[mortal nexus]

Ah right. Forgot about those that buy/sell BS for silver. Thank you.

[vital badge]

that being said, they might someday adjust the value proposition on the DR currency, but I don't think that's likely.

[mortal nexus]

Perhaps for the HESS items. Maybe?

[frosty gate]

TWELVE silver skins? Lucky.

[fading flare]

DR might drop back to like 6-7.5m silver per 25 book, but I doubt it will be soon. The days of 8-9m 50 cts were long ago.

[digital turtle]

how does loot cap work in groups? does all loot generated count towards every group member's cap or only the person looting or only the person selling at pawnshop, gemshop, furrier, etc?

Do bounty silver rewards count towards your loot cap? I'm guessing yes, right?

[boreal bobcat]

Person generating. So skinning/searching. Hasn't affected my group that I've noticed. No clue if bounty rewards count towards lootcap yet or not but being at 1% doesn't seem to affect the rewards.

[digital turtle]

so purifying gems doesn't add to your loot cap then since that all happens after it's been generated?

[boreal bobcat]

No clue. Gonna take time to figure out stuff like that. Like an actual untarnished month of loop cap examining everything.

[sleek meadow]

want my silver? sell a 100m silver hess cert to add voln scrip to existing armor. Done...100m will be drained from the economy
not sure where I will get 100m but I'll do it!!!

[digital turtle]

ty 🙂

[safe epoch]

it should scale like exp

[ocean spindle]

Has anyone talked about how these changes have made it seemingly impossible to do gem bounties "as intended"? They used to give a boost to the gem you needed for the bounty and be able to collect enough in a few hunts. Since this weekend I've gotten a couple different gem bounties and even with major/minor loot boosts, I haven't found a single bounty gem after many hunts.

[fading flare]

It's been mentioned a few times, but not addressed really. People keep randomly saying "Oh, you must be under loot cap" without any other clarification. (I wasn't). It's an area for improvement

[bright pasture]

you may have to wait until the new month, since the loot slope may be shallower and might allow the gem collection to extend properly throughout the month

[strong lake]

The easier and more useful solution would be removing gem bounties all together. Then the servers could take a breath after folks unload their millions of jars from their lockers.

[shell phoenix]

You leave my beloved jar collection alone. Honestly I love the gem bounties for helping get some characters past certain levels where there aren't great things to hunt. My sorcerer had a point where every time she stepped into a hunting ground she was almost immediately killed by an SMR attack. After getting a couple levels from gems, skinning, and herb bounties it wasn't as bad

[finite trench]

Why would you say something so controversial and yet so brave