#[Official] Loot and Experience Changes

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

finite trench
#

They should definitely double the impact of loot pressure

primal creek
#

It was intentional. Had to break up the hotness back on services.

mental compass
#

grit should get doubled

pastel pewter
#

Why? This just kills resource gain for the casual player who only has a 15 minute window to log in fro mtime to time.

dusky kernel
#

(be nice to Kerl he's got a lot to catch up on)

gloomy lark
#

Lumnis Donate 250K and resource gain will be much faster than before, right?

mortal nexus
#

Resource gain won't.

mellow gyro
#

Resource and box weight are the big "Fix its"

sand pewter
#

Get gemstone that increases resource gain by 25 percent

rigid sparrow
primal creek
mental compass
crimson pond
#

Are you saying that in the same amount of time hunting before today, you would not have accumulated enough old style boxes to reach the same weight as one newstyle?

My experience so far with nuboxes is that my overall encumbrance is about the same. Fewer, but individually bigger - overall close to the same. Except for those ~80lbs of my nubox, It's mostly treasure and not useless box weight (boxes weigh what, 8lbs each empty?)

modest lance
mental compass
#

Yes but the Silvers your getting overall have dropped by about 40-45% when you factor in the silvers/locksmith/gem values / jewelry values etc.

fierce lantern
crimson pond
mortal nexus
#

Hunts that normally netted us 200k is now around 70k so it's not the same in my experience.

primal creek
rigid sparrow
#

Definitely seeing a hit on OSA. popped a major boost like i normally do with krolvin galleons, and got 1 box from drops instead of the normal 14-17(with necro ring)

ocean matrix
#

perhaps there will be Resource flares at Duskruin that increase your alts resource gain for 300m bs

crimson pond
pastel anvil
mental compass
rigid sparrow
fierce lantern
valid orbit
#

there should be basically no benefit to staying logged in afk

mental compass
#

Its just too much of a swing. There were enough changes with out needing this one stacked on top of that. Its just Ugh. Sure people should get more the more they play, but a casual player has zero chance of hitting that. Talk about FoMo

pastel anvil
simple forge
#

I have a job

orchid dawn
mortal nexus
simple forge
#

There are plenty of rewards for playing 20 hours a day. You don't need to add penalties for people who dont have the time

mortal nexus
#

If GS feels that a casual player should play 15 hours a week to accomplish anything, we have bigger problems than the boxes.

pastel anvil
mental compass
#

If you step back, and think about this from a game health perspective its a poor judgement call. You want to encourage playes to play, this is a bit punitive. On one hand you give people fster exp so they can exp faster, you then take the resource they normally generate in a week and make it take them 2 weeks. This affects the casual players. Casual players also are subs, they also blow cash etc.

mortal nexus
pastel anvil
ocean matrix
#

5 hrs/week already doesn't get the same rewards as 15.
Less loot/raw silvers.
Less XP.
There's always going to be a breakpoint where Resource gain caps per week. Moving that goalpost to 15 hours is understandably going to upset a fair segment of regular players and acting like it's "fair" is kind of irrelevant given how long that system was in place

simple forge
#

I dont think he's going to understand

old cedar
mental compass
#

So annoyed I had purchased 3000ish runs of Lumnis. Glad I was able to sell most of them off at a loss when this all went down.

The good news is this saves me Cash from duskruin.

crimson pond
valid orbit
#

I know the offline exp absorption issue is a real problem, but my single freaking characters game is just decimated right now. I have to change everything. I've literally gained 0 exp in the last 10-15 minutes. A profession basically demolished.

brazen salmon
valid orbit
rigid sparrow
#

it's not a profession demolished. it's a locksmithing pool demolished.

jolly palm
#

That leaves me wondering "why change it"?

Feels like resources were an unexpected and unnecessary adjustment to everything, heh

primal creek
dusky kernel
brazen salmon
#

Ohh... locksmith pool. I mean, the best advice I can give is put yourself up on SERVICE and advertise on ESP to supplement what you're getting. Hopefully adjustments will be made but that is pretty crappy and I'm sorry you're in that position.

fierce lantern
vital badge
royal epoch
mortal nexus
kindred ruin
#

Take away the 50k a week cap on resources and make it per month cap instead... let people who play 167.5 hours a week get to capped 200k in a week.. but then that's it. They get the rest of the month of no more resource gains. let the rest of us not feel like we have a time limit of having to get 16 hours in a week. Same with gemstones. make the limit monthly instead of weekly.

royal epoch
#

I can definitely see the logic behind making resources something you need to work more toward, but I don't do a lot of enchanting personally on my main.

noble elbow
#

(you enchant me)

royal epoch
#

Hopefully that makes sense.

wispy forum
royal epoch
mental compass
#

well Now that its harder to obtain there is a greater chance that some folks will purchase the points / essence. Since its difficult to obtain.

edgy hollow
valid orbit
jolly palm
brazen salmon
ocean matrix
#

I think it has to be understood RE: the psychology of the resource cap
Players have been trained to cap their 50k/week on a certain time investment
Can't just change it and expect people to not feel bad "wasting" resouce they no longer have time to earn

orchid dawn
#

Will there be any further updates or changes following the recent ones after hearing everyone complaints and concerns?

old cedar
desert dock
#

The resource gain change is certainly a quandry, one that could lead to some silly situations and gameplay. Want to get your resources but not enough time to meet the increase play time? Fill your head with 1500 exp, overcast some spells to get yourself to a rank 3 nerve injury, sit off-node, and leave the computer on overnight. 50 resource per pulse but only 8 exp. Maybe even throw in some death sting beforehand and further reduce exp absorption (while the resource gain continues to pulse heavily all night long). That can actually work to mitigate the new scenario, but cannot be good for the game as a whole.

dusky kernel
crimson pond
wispy forum
# jolly palm Lol. Fair!

it's fair, but someone had to have felt SOMETHING, or else, as you said Kontii, why change it - buy maybe i missed it? was it ever stated why it was changed?

safe epoch
#

I'm curious why resource gain, and the difficulty of items that must be worked on somehow presented "the team" with something that needed to be made more difficult for players. It seems over and over that "the team" needs to change things to make things harder for the most powerful players... unfortunately those changes impact all of us.

mortal nexus
fierce lantern
ocean matrix
#

I mean, in the context of the larger changes, it absolutely seems aimed at high earners using lots of alts the minimum time possible

broken vector
#

I greatly appreciate Auchand chatting with us and giving us what info he has...but the radio silence from the rest of the staff is probably the worst thing possible after nerfs.

How many times has this happened and yet we don't learn that a lack of communication makes everything worse. I know GMs have lives but to drop these giant changes and then mostly just peace out is a recipe for people being angry. And it doesn't require constant communication, just a couple official statements here and there regarding the legitimate/obvious concerns that have been raised.

crimson pond
kindred ruin
wispy forum
royal epoch
#

Don't take the radio silence as fear to engage with you guys. We do want to let this all settle in without rocking the boat too much. Everyone in this chat has been through changes before.

mental compass
#

Anyways, I've seen this sort of thing in other games over the last 30+ years of gaming. Its just one of those things.

Its a whatever burger. Could have and should have been done better but what can you do.

Retention of players, increasing the player pool are the most important thing to long term health of the game. There lots of ways to drain silvers from the game.

This sort of change, to this degree will affect revenue. That is what keeps the game alive.

primal creek
fierce lantern
ocean matrix
#

A reasonable argument for some change to Resource earn rates is that adding 5x/4x + the simucoin booster would make Resource capping even easier

So I can see adjusting it somehow, just seems like it went too far

though I suppose true resource alts wouldn't spend on 5x/4x or the other option

royal epoch
#

You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especially if someone's put tons of effort into trying to make the game better and then has to take a bunch of hits on how it's basically the worst thing to happen to Elanthia since the Ur-Daemons.

broken vector
rigid sparrow
dusky kernel
mellow gyro
#

People play for different reasons. I personally like the XP updates. 5x lumnis? I'm not a casual, but usually I have a limit so this helps

boreal bobcat
#

premium should get 100 per pulse and platinum 150 per pulse!

mortal nexus
flint flame
#

I'm beginning to suspect the logic is they knew the loot cap would upset the people who play the most and have multiple accounts, so making resources more difficult for us casuals is their way of giving them a relative benefit so they don't feel shafted. Resources being too easy to accumulate just doesn't seem like an issue. It wasn't generating silvers which is the real issue, too many silvers. Making resources more valuable disproportionately benefits the people who were already grinding the most, which you might say fair enough. So the idea is maybe us casuals will play more and this will give the hardcore players some new relative benefit in the face of a new loot cap.

dusky kernel
old cedar
mental compass
#

Thanks for hoping into chat Auchand. I know its not the most fun prospect.

The biggest issue is the resource regeneration. Its going to need to be reviewed and dug into a bit more.

Unfortunately not knowing the full scope of the reasoning behind the decisions makes it difficult to get on board with.

As there are lot sof conversations that occur during meetings with long term vision its understandable.

I just can't see me logging in 15 hours a week to sit there getting exp just to finish up my Services.

boreal bobcat
#

armoire stocks going up? rip ca and tattoo's

kindred ruin
# royal epoch You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especial...

Staff likely gets a TON more backlash because you're working with people who have played this game since they were kids. This is a love of many people. Many of these people who've sunk tens of thousands or more into this game (including subs). Of course they care. Some worry about the health of the game overall. Some worry about what this will look like for their game play. Overall the changes are 90% positive (my point of view), just 10% is crazy messed up (again my opinion)

safe epoch
# royal epoch You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especial...

To be fair... I think everyone here is invested in this dear old game. Everyone here is emotionally drained by things sometimes and folks are here now.. voicing that. I see nothing but healthy commentary and concerns that are valid and well-intentioned. Rarely would any change be universally appreciated, but let's not discount this playerbase and all the love and resources they have in this game.. even if they aren't on "the team"

mystic vale
#

If they wanted to keep resource gain at the current rate they could have just made it only be boosted for the first 37.xK exp and then absorb normally. But I've never once heard anyone on staff or any player say that there was any problem with the speed at which resources were being gained, so over all it's just super baffling haha!

ashen carbon
wispy forum
royal epoch
#

I'd say give us some time to look at resource stuff. I can't promise we'll ever change things there, but let us assess some.

violet rock
#

You have until I get home

mellow gyro
#

Tens of thousands of dollars seems as magical as some of our gear, but there is wild gear out there and we've seen some people burn bright and burst.

mental compass
#

Most of us that started as kids (or young adults) are now pretty busy overall as working professionals with Time being our most important resourse.

Its asking a Lot, giving most of us FoMo and will create inbalance (More then currently).

dusky kernel
#

either way I think we really need to hear how/why resource generation became a problem that needed to be fixed..we've been primed about silvers for months but this blindsided us all

orchid dawn
#

I think the changes need to be rolled back until somthing else if figured out

kindred ruin
fading flare
#

I worry this new gem system is going to destroy making chrisms.
is it still 3k for one? And are all diamonds/emeralds junk at like 1250 now?

rain eagle
#

Was the price of gems adjusted too?

safe epoch
crimson pond
#

Also be specific with the feedback. Actual numbers are much more convincing than "this feels terrible." I was enlightened by the power of offline exp today after some numbers were shared, and I think those use cases are the most opaque to the GMs.

broken vector
# royal epoch Don't take the radio silence as fear to engage with you guys. We do want to let ...

Please don't take this as me saying this is the worst thing ever. I just made a comment appreciating you and agreeing with ~90% of the changes.
but...We do want to let this all settle in without rocking the boat too much.
This feels a little tone deaf when you just made an unannounced change (both not discussed previously AND not including in the changelog) that trashed 5 years of huge effort to build up my ALT army...and still no one has even bothered to tell us what the new offline exp rate is.

The more this settles in without any communication the worse it feels.

You may not like the idea of my alts...but that's been my playstyle for 5 years and right now it's dead.

I will be patient (not like I have much of a choice though!) but I'm also a paying customer and asking for some communication from someone who actually knows about the offline exp changes doesn't feel like a big ask.

solid phoenix
mellow gyro
slate bluff
#

I posted this in the other section but I think it atleast showcases the power of closing the gap for casual-to-powerfarmers in terms of exp
So casual player A: plays 23 hours in the week and gets 242k experience
& power player B: players 10 hours per day (70hrs) and gets 383k experience
The gap is closing!
3x the hours played for only ~60% more experience 🥲

boreal bobcat
#

Someone did a test earlier, logged off for 25 minutes got 50 resources, then logged off again for 60 minutes and got 50 resources. Speculation is 1 pulse per logoff with some kind of delay before being able to receive a new 1 pulse.

dusky kernel
brazen salmon
broken vector
primal creek
mystic vale
# royal epoch You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especial...

Echoing what Karystal said. This is a communication issue, there was no discussion or notion whatsoever on the player side that there would be any change to resource gain.

People value transparency. It's odd to me that you have responded to refute that X is not the reason for the resource change but can't say that Y or Z is the reason.

It's a problem that is present in other areas, too. Gemstones come to mind - to my knowledge we have never gotten any reason stated for why the drop rate for gems 2 and 3 is the way that it is.

Transparency would save you from the emotional drain, especially if applied early and thoroughly.

mossy forge
#

Why do we need to close the gap? I'm just asking.

mellow gyro
#

This is all a bit too granular on math for a game. It's all kind of fabricated value. The point is did you have fun, but I think we're all kind of sharing similar points to the same discussion in the end at the same time.

royal epoch
fierce lantern
#

This isn't an official answer from the design, but there's an additional +150k/week introduced by new Lumnis and simucoin offerings, outside of RPAs, existing Lumnis, etc. Keeping it explicitly tied to XP only means you could further trivialize your resources

fading flare
#

Auchand, can you address chrism value now? And animate summons, I suppose. Gems were heavily affected here. 325 things in general need specific gem values

dusky kernel
simple forge
#

Lol Auchand is so even-keeled I'm kind of glad it's just him and not the rest of the team here

royal epoch
wispy forum
royal epoch
cold zephyr
#

popped a major loot boost, found 4 boxes out hunting, numbers in () are silver amounts I got for each gem:

2nd was ~67lbs; contents = crystal amulet, stell lockpick, uncut ruby (1130), violet sapphire (485), malachite-set pewter stickpin and 10,134 coins
3rd was ~82lbs; contents = silver lockpick, clear sapphire(11), white opal(440), malachite-set gold barrette, rune-etced silver orb and 11,505 coins
4th was ~37lbs; contents = iron wand, heavy quartz orb, green zircon(99), beryl-inset imflass platter and 3,405 coins

Side note - all 4 boxes were trapped. I got around 90exp per trap, I didn't track the exp for each lock picked.```

All in all from furs, coins and gems I got from hunting (not counting box stuff above) I got 41,028. Add that with the 87,309 from selling everything found in the 4 boxes I made a total of 128,337 silver that run with a major loot active (15 minutes of hunting).  I had to stop and off load stuff 2 times so I could not be encumbered and this is also with an encumbrance boost being active and having a disk.

I'd have to say that the treasure felt roughly the same, maybe slightly higher, but that would be due to the extreme extra amount of coins collected on each creature (anywhere from 250 to 800) and the extreme amounts in the boxes.

Treasure wise the change doesn't bother me, mechanically-wise the excessive weight of the boxes irritates the hell out of me.
broken vector
rain eagle
royal epoch
mellow gyro
#

Days played off-node on 0 XP/loot - 5,475

mossy forge
dusky kernel
flint flame
#

For my own part I've only been using my resources on my own projects to save silver because I am too silver poor to buy all the services I'd like, and getting to 50k on just three characters has become a huge chore that I probably needed to back off anyway. I feel compelled to hit that 50k when really, why am I grinding when I might have more fun creating that rat fur wearing bard or twc sorcerer that I play every once in a while.

cold zephyr
#

the other thing that really irks me is that I need 2 more emeralds for my gem bounty and I didn't find one off any of the creatures I killed nor in the boxes I opened. Generally the boxes would hold one or two before, as I'd get 12-15 boxes to open.

royal epoch
#

I'm curious where you folks are hunting that you're getting such colossal silver amounts in boxes. I've been testing for a while and keep getting 5000 or so silver in boxes. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

rain eagle
#

So rubies and emeralds are basically worthless now..

fierce lantern
violet rock
slate bluff
#

RIP chrisms and rip skin/gem eating items

broken vector
mossy forge
dusky kernel
#

I found some big coin boxes in den of rot, some in sailors grief

simple forge
#

My 9k silver box was Atoll. But the only other box I found was basically worthless with the pool fee

wispy forum
old cedar
cold zephyr
#

Here's a ruby that I was sitting on before the treasure change:

You ask Kahlyr to appraise an uncut ruby.
The jeweler Kahlyr takes the uncut ruby and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give you 3,152 silvers for it if you want to sell."```

No newly found ruby to sell to verify if it is worth less or if I just got two really crappy rubies and it was a fluke.
boreal bobcat
flint flame
#

Rivers rest marsh keep and citadel but everyone knows about RR loot already

royal epoch
#

Aha.

slate bluff
#

Is 50 offline total for the day or total when you logout one time?
Can I create a script that logs in and out every minute of the day to get the offline 50 each time? scream_goat

fading flare
fierce lantern
#

Isn't that just a function of being in the soft lootcap and having loot value reduced?

wispy forum
mossy forge
# royal epoch Aha.

To be fair, you did preposition the loot changes with an axe falling...

..innocent whistling..

dusky kernel
boreal bobcat
# 
>app emer
You ask Krosane to appraise an uncut emerald.
The jeweler Krosane takes the uncut emerald and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give 
you 9,810 silvers for it if you want to sell."
>
>app diam
You ask Krosane to appraise an uncut diamond.
The jeweler Krosane takes the uncut diamond and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give 
you 10,137 silvers for it if you want to sell."

old gems values were not decreased.

fading flare
fierce lantern
#

That sounds like you're in the lootcap to me... And I agree Duffield, it's weird... I've never been in it myself, my point being that I don't think it's related to any of this round of changes, it was kinda the behavior before, for better or for worse.

fading flare
#

I don't hunt enough to be in lootcap.

dusky kernel
#

You carefully examine the iron chest and determine that the weight is about 83 pounds. one merrow and I gotta swim back now lol

tender scarab
# 
The gemcutter takes the mammoth tusk, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,930 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the tiger tooth, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,270 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the tiger tooth, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,016 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the tiger tooth, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,244 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the tiger tooth, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,130 silver for it.```
Hmm. If this isn't just a streak of lower end tusks and tooths, might be time to stop picking these up.
slate bluff
#

2k mammoth tusks??? hellll na

orchid dawn
#

The gem dealer in Solhaven, Kahlyr, has received orders from multiple customers requesting an uncut emerald. You have been tasked to retrieve 8 of them. You can SELL them to the gem dealer as you find them. How long will this take at 1%?

fading flare
#

Yeah, box weight needs to be decreased (meaning silvers, probably, while gems go up, or something...put bank notes in them).

tawny sierra
potent orchid
#

Post did say that some gem rarities and values have been adjusted

peak gull
#

We are going to have to start looting weapons and armor

light smelt
#

Hmm. Day 1 of the changes... and I can't get boxes at the locksmith pool. Was steady last night as I worked through lmastery reps. Tonight, I picked 5 boxes before pool was empty: nothing available for me.

mossy forge
tender scarab
slate bluff
timber kraken
visual oar
mossy forge
#

I deposit boxes at 1 silver now.

light smelt
#

If the appraise messaging is the same, then you don't need huge samples. The verbiage gives the percentage within a small range. I use that to determine if a gem is worth spending time on.

orchid dawn
tawny sierra
slate bluff
#

Anyone find a couple klocks yet?

timber kraken
pastel anvil
#

For dedicated players, there's really no point in training in trading and training to skin. That's a lot of TP's to free up

tawny sierra
ashen carbon
timber kraken
tender scarab
mental compass
#

I'm already 202 in trading leaf! I wonder how this will affect charge item

solid phoenix
#

I fought hard to get these, I'm keeping them. Survival...........................| 403 303 First Aid..........................| 302 202 Trading............................| 302 202

long coral
#

will the 5x xp and the simucoin xp purchase stop LTE from being drained? If so this is a nerf to necro rings, which are not cheap to maximize.

mental compass
#

I'm wondering if its 50 points per min, isn't that 16.67 Hours of exp?

gaunt vector
#

Proposal: increase pulse frequency.

light smelt
#

Yes please! Many gnomes and a halfling in my characters.

fading flare
# 
The gemcutter takes the ivory aranthium-bloom, gives it a careful examination and hands you 2,147 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the purple mithril-bloom, gives it a careful examination and hands you 103 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the black tourmaline, gives it a careful examination and hands you 291 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the blood red garnet, gives it a careful examination and hands you 241 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the cobalt blue spinel, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,958 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the frost opal, gives it a careful examination and hands you 731 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the graupel onyx, gives it a careful examination and hands you 238 silver for it.
The gemcutter takes the ammolite shard, gives it a careful examination and hands you 519 silver for it.```Some strange differences. All gems I just acquired.
royal epoch
#

In what sense?

tender scarab
#

That's a very cheap aranthium-bloom. The rest looks about normal? Maybe a little low on the spinel.

orchid dawn
#

nothing make sense right now

long coral
#

necro rings are used to generate LTE, if the window of time where that is possible grows smaller, or disappears, then the ring has no function. obviously most folks who have them maxed are going to play more, and get some use, but less now with the changes IF LTE absorbtion doesn't happen in those conditions

royal epoch
#

Base value for aranthium-bloom is about 2k silvers.

fading flare
#

Was gem value decreased across the board, or are different gems affected by this at different rates? Seems like the second, but I would have to go and compare. There's always a range anyway.
(But yeah, it's going to be nearly impossible to make 3k chrisms now, so that needs a look.)

royal epoch
#

The answer's a bit more complex.

tender scarab
#

Aranthium-blooms are one of the few gems I was still taking time to purify, which means they could get up to 10k+ at max value before... I guess I'll see what happens with my next purify session, though. Maybe Fulmen just found the lowest possible quality one.

old cedar
long coral
#

gem value also plays a role in animating the dead. I'm not really finding any gems at this point so idk what they are worth.. but that could be a problem

fading flare
#

old random aranthium-bloom: "The gemcutter takes the ivory aranthium-bloom and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give you 5,133 silvers for it if you want to sell."

kindred ruin
#

I have to say.. pickers are picking faster now. Used to have 50+ boxes in the pool waiting at any given time. Now they're all done!

gaunt vector
#

Far fewer boxes coming in will do that.

visual oar
#

Might as well get rid of boxes altogether except for legendaries

old crystal
#

I intend to stop using it and just zap my boxes or make my own rogue at this point.

You want a locksmith to open a rune-incised cherrywood coffer for a tip of 1,000 silvers. There is also a fee of 2,333 silvers due up front, totaling 3,333 silvers. You will need that amount on you.

royal epoch
#

So, previously, gems had kind of a wonky valuation where they were organized into tiers by value, but some had special snowflake status.

#

The tiers now determine the gem's value.

long coral
#

if there was a flag to turn off generating boxes from looting, I'd be all about it. Let people who play less often collect boxes/treasure faster, and the slow grinding folks can get the loot slower over time

tender scarab
#

I guess that at least makes it easier to determine whether something's worth purifying. I'll just have to look for the very rare and exceptionally rare. (IIRC on the APPRAISE categories.)

royal epoch
#

Yup.

fading flare
#

yeah, boxes are a problem now that needs to be addressed. The weight is...annoying. You pick up one 70lb box near the beginning of a hunt and it's a back breaker.

mossy forge
#

Trade the silvers in the box being generated, for a note maybe a la, OSA/Reim.

fierce lantern
#

I'm too old to pick up a 70 pound box now.. my back felt that. And Whirlin is even older. And halfling don't live that long!

visual oar
royal epoch
#

I don't know that your argument holds weight there. You're technically getting more box treasure for less weight.

light smelt
#

;alias add --global ;glp=;go2 locksmith pool
No time to type all that.

normal drum
#

Maybe the boxes should drop gold now.

fading flare
#

Alright...Leafiara, maybe you'll like this. I'm hearing from a bard that a new sunstone valued at 800 was bard sung up to 7500. It took over 20 songs. (If that's intended)

royal epoch
#

Since you're getting 3 boxes' worth of treasure without the weight of those additional boxes.

tender scarab
split hamlet
#

We don't want a ton of silvers in a box.

Personally, I would like to have 0 silvers in a box.

pastel anvil
visual oar
orchid dawn
#

Will there be any further updates or changes following the recent ones after all the feedback?

royal epoch
#

Sure.

gaunt vector
royal epoch
#

Estild and I hammered out some improvements to box weight tonight.

fierce lantern
long coral
#

my understanding is you have to pay a lot more at the pool. so the weight saved from less box weight, is offset by the price you pay at the pool. hunts interrupted and less silver gained overall.

tender scarab
wispy forum
split hamlet
royal epoch
#

I am driving.

simple forge
#

This is important, though

royal epoch
#

If I get into a fiery wreck, we'll double box weights.

fierce lantern
fading flare
#

#3 sunstone, 19 songs, started at 700 value, is now 7500. And also now magnificent quality. If this is intended...please let it stay. It's at least 'something' that works for high value gems and a pain for bards to do. That's a huge number of songs.

visual oar
fierce lantern
long coral
#

eyes on the road! You're no help dead

wispy forum
boreal bobcat
#

"we'll"? Pretty optomistic about surviving a fiery wreck!

tender scarab
#

I do agree with others' previously expressed sentiment that boxes didn't really get more interesting. Reducing the drop rate to 33% while increasing the contents to 300% also just cancels each other out in terms of loot generation, so it's a little baffling.

split hamlet
#

Everyone should stop chatting until he gets home.

cloud dew
fading flare
#

1004 just got more important then

fierce lantern
#

Also gonna guess that isn't intentional

slate bluff
simple forge
#

Nerf bards!

royal epoch
#

ESTILD is our Electronic Supreme Technological Intelligence for Leading Development.

boreal bobcat
#

I suspect that's not intended as well. Why would they drop them so much only to allow 1000% increase that is likely not part of loot cap?

tender scarab
mossy forge
royal epoch
#

Nyxus programmed it. It currently has the nuclear codes. Help.

wispy forum
#

this was secretly the bard rework the entire time, yall just didnt know it

ashen carbon
#

idk, but now that I've had time to study it and look at it, the changes to resource generation aren't small, they're absolutely brutal. I'm probably going to have to go down to playing 1 character instead of 3 just to get resource gen for that 1 character. Even 2 would be massively pushing it with no offline absorption. At that point in time, what's the point in even continuing to play premium?

split hamlet
normal drum
#

If resource generation is going down, can we get rid of resource charging?

cloud dew
#

wondering if something broke, and gems are all starting at very cheap quality. I only checked the two, so just a thought

mossy forge
fierce lantern
#

Let's not get the gem and weight guy into a fiery wreck

royal epoch
fierce lantern
#

... I don't want box weight doubled if he explodes....

split hamlet
royal epoch
timber kraken
#

I really hope he is in a self driving car. This is a ridiculous amount of texting/coding while driving

boreal bobcat
#

That would explain the fiery explosion.

royal epoch
#

Many red lights + TTS.

split hamlet
#

Say wyrom and see how it spells it

ashen carbon
#

I was really close to making a P3 standard this weekend and now that's shot.

fading flare
#

[Help] Tallifyr: Heh appraise knows what's up all the gems are "very cheap" quality now. (this would explain some things.)

tender scarab
#

Yep, just purified a sparkling ice blue dreamstone from 1800 to 9000 in 16 casts, which wasn't possible before. (The 16 casts part, not the 9000.)

1004 better than ever?

pastel anvil
boreal bobcat
#

So now the question is, is it better to hoard gems until you hit lootcap then sing to them? Does their increased value affect lootcap now where it didn't before?
Seems quite the shift if most gems gen as very cheap and can be increased to the highest quality while the gen value is what counts for lootcap.

mossy forge
#

Personally, this resource thing is really no bueno for me. With what time I can spend in game, I can't see to justify alts on a single account at this point.

ashen carbon
#

the resource thing alone might completely kill the game for me. I know I'm pretty much no one, but this feels like punishment for people who can't be sitting in front of a computer non stop

tender scarab
#

I haven't found a gem in my fresh batch that doesn't start as very cheap, which makes 1004 exceedingly valuable for even moderate gems.

fast cipher
rigid sparrow
#

curious, were the costs for deeds adjusted with gem values?

fierce lantern
visual oar
#

lol someone go check if the caravansery gems are still the same price

tender scarab
rigid sparrow
#

with clerics a close second, because everyone will be blowing up their own boxes and silver to gold will become normalized

mossy forge
#

Hiring a cleric to gold all my silver from using 130.

fast cipher
boreal bobcat
#

It's a good thing rogues got their service first 😁

visual oar
fading flare
#

Unfortunately, this is not going to work because you need a very high-quality gem in order to turn a bunch of silver into gold. It’s based on the silver value. And now that all the gems are pretty bad, not to mention that they’re not orbs, you’re not going to be able to find a gem capable of turning your 12 K silver chunk into gold…. not easily unless you have a bard purify it all first and even then it’s going to be difficult to get past maybe 8K or something in silver

long coral
tender scarab
solid phoenix
#

Wouldn’t the best ploy for resource generation be to NOT rest at Earthnodes now? To prolong the pulses for more resources?

rigid sparrow
#

all you need is 5 pounds. turn it into gold coins right? 5x160=800, 800 gold coins = 800k per box.

blazing violet
#

After licking your sword, yes.

mossy forge
ashen carbon
solid phoenix
#

Lost EXP can be offset by the new Lumnis bribe. Just stack Discipline enhancives and just park at some random off-node.

Side note: does anyone remember how much exp you get from foraging an herb on an empty mind?

gaunt vector
#

Remove silver from the game. Make GEMSTONE function entirely on a gem-based barter economy.

mossy forge
long coral
#

it's for the health and longevity of the game.

royal epoch
#

I suppose it would be unhelpful to point out that it is not mandatory to max out prof points each week.

chilly berry
# ashen carbon Maybe, but I only get an hour a night some nights. Like, I have a life, full tim...

Yeah. The resource change is flat out a mistake. It alienates the true casuals, IMO. And yes you should be able to do the culmination of your profession’s ability even if you can only play a few hours a week.

If the goal was to make having 5 resource alts on one account impractical then just put a resource gain cap on an account like a loot cap.

Or something.

Maybe it would be better if resources get tiered per account with experience gain or something. First 50k is tied to experience gain. After that it shifts to the new system.

That would allow effectively a similar cap per account per week, yet allow others to still get it.

ashen carbon
#

I was seriously looking forward to hitting cap. Now I don’t even see the point in continuing.

If I devote all of my playtime to one character, I still might not hit resource cap on that single character.

Gonna be hard pressed to buy experience or temples of luminous if I don’t see the point in playing anymore

royal epoch
tropic creek
#

One of my main drivers

royal epoch
#

I sat at max for the better part of a year, so it's definitely not my mindset.

vital badge
#

it was a pretty easy way to guage your play time for multiple characters, at least for me.

chilly berry
# royal epoch I suppose it would be unhelpful to point out that it is not mandatory to max out...

It’s not. You’re 100% right.

Most of the time I get 25-30k of resource on alts. I play them not much.

If the purpose is to globally slow down power creep via player services then this makes sense. But why not just say that?

(For the record I hate this part of the game. I’m glad it’s being looked at. This is just the wrong way to do it, IMHO. I think it disproportionately hurts a lot of my friends who barely get to 30k)

visual oar
split hamlet
#

I think a compromise would be to reward resources during game play, while still preventing it for logging out 10 resource alts.

50 is simply too low.

ashen carbon
fast cipher
tropic creek
#

Not if you spend it and keep earning

split hamlet
#

Can we refresh the loot cap so I can actually experience these changes, fully?

wispy forum
#

id just like to better understand how players being able to cap out their service resources every week hurts the economy

long coral
#

just take the sacrifice for the health and longevity of the game. you'll get extra xp too if you donate your 250k. everybody was on board loot cap for the health of the game. why can't you be on board just because now it's something affecting you?

orchid dawn
ashen carbon
mossy forge
#

I try to split mine between two characters with something like 20 hours a week in playtime.

It just forces me to make the decision to remove the alt, especially since I'm not premium and can't just go grab 25k every week.

split hamlet
long coral
#

I mean in all seriousness.. 250k donation is way cheaper than buying an orb.

south trail
ashen carbon
boreal bobcat
#

But that 250k donation doesn't help with resources.

split hamlet
#

Someone do the math on what 150 during 3x Lumnis and 100 during 2x Lumnis comes out to.

tropic creek
#

Yeah, the change to resources has made any of the RPA orbs and new exp purchases meaningless to me.
/shrug

long coral
mossy forge
fast cipher
#

Without touching the frayed nerve too much but has anyone given any thought to who's going to buy all these service with the reduction to the cap tightening the silver supply and the lack of an appetitive to reduce prices? People upset because of changes to their own personal projects and schedules are easier to understand and a bit more straight forward.

wispy forum
split hamlet
#

Most new gear comes via simucoins now anyway.

normal drum
chilly berry
# south trail So true. The only consistent way for a casual to make decent chunks of gold wit...

I understand that it was to cap people running multiple resource alts. And that makes sense. I support something there.

But man… this isn’t the way. Lumnis started to help keep casuals on par with grinders a bit.

I appreciate the attempt at decoupling the system, but this isn’t the correct solution to help the casual player.

I think having a resource cap might work per account. Think like the current loot cap even with the new way where you get resources per pulse. Say you get like 250 per pulse. It slowly goes down until after you get your first 50k on an account then you land at 50 per pulse until the week is over.

Casuals still get 25-30k. Resource alts still stymied.

hard folio
#

I'm gonna go ahead and say the thing - To many more casual players, the 50k / week in resources is important, not only for personal use, but for many of us, it's the only way we're able to make any kind of silvers. My capped main hunts 50k juice a week and barely pulls in 2m silver a month from hunting.

split hamlet
#

I think an account resource cap makes no sense whatsoever. Just make them play the character and it's the same thing without punishing those who will put in the time and effort. Time and effort should be rewarded.

mossy forge
#

Paying more money for less game isn't a good answer.

chilly berry
long coral
frank peak
#

maybe i'm just an outlier here, but, I'm seeing a bit more total silver value from hunts than before. I would get 4-8 boxes and a handful of gems. now its 2 boxes and a cloakful of gems. and the boxes are pretty good as well. mostly just silvers good.

visual oar
#

when you say "long-term health of the game," I'm a bit curious exactly how long-term you think the game has left....

normal drum
#

I’m going to hold off on providing feedback on the substance of the implemented changes until I can be more thoughtful about them….

But I do want to provide feedback that I do not like the current approach of implement now and seek feedback later.

split hamlet
#

I have a feeling next month is going to feel terrible for me. I'm going to go out hunting, get encumbered after 2 boxes and have to run back to town. It's going to greatly decrease actual hunting time because the boxes are so heavy. All we're going to be able to do is run back and forth to town and back to hunting.

The box weight thing is an actual nightmare.

long coral
royal epoch
#

Okay. Home, and no fiery crash.

hard folio
#

welcome home Auchand 🙂

tropic creek
#

Conspiracy time : The box weight is there so we all start leaving boxes behind again, thus generating less overall silver.

mossy forge
lucid latch
boreal bobcat
#

The box weight is just silver. Just blow it up!

royal epoch
#

The bad:

I have to fix that issue with Purification Song.

The good:

As mentioned, some relief for silver weight coming.

chilly berry
split hamlet
tender scarab
#

What issue with Purification Song? The reason it couldn't go past 15 casts before is because gems couldn't start off below 25% of max value before. Now they apparently can.

normal drum
#

If they wanted our feedback on anything substantive beyond tweaking at the margins, they wouldn’t have implemented.

boreal bobcat
#

You should definitely fix purification song now before I fixprof one of my alts into a bard for the uber gainz.

orchid dawn
tender scarab
fast cipher
#

Ojaandhart is about to be 1 giant sing along between players and Skalds

tawny sierra
# royal epoch Is hitting resource cap your sole motivation for playing?

Character advancement is the sole purpose for many. Of which professional resources were a big part of that equation, both in terms of power and participating in the economy. For the casual player that wasnt expecting to affected by the changes it’s a big hit. I’m not sure how it isn’t obvious

split hamlet
#

You guys are finding gems to sing to? The 1% loot is no joke.

mystic vale
# chilly berry I understand that it was to cap people running multiple resource alts. And that ...

The main idea here is still an assumption, though. No member of staff has stated a reason for reducing resource generation, and "too many service alts" has never been an issue that was mentioned.

It just seems like an oversight and as far as I can see the main things that have been said by staff about it are "I can see the logic of it" "It's not something I'm really concerned about" "You don't have to do it"

mossy forge
ashen carbon
#

Well, not anymore.

hard folio
south trail
#

Is there a difference between 1% and hard loot cap? can find a pair of trousers now every 100 kills?

orchid dawn
fast cipher
#

It's no better anywhere else once your capped

normal drum
tawny sierra
mossy forge
split hamlet
#

Part of me finds it funny that I suggested reducing the value of all things sold by 90%, and then a progressive 1% reduction based on how far into loot cap you were.

But they somehow found a way to implement an even worse version of this, by just dumping silvers in boxes so that you won't even be able to hunt without getting instantly encumbered, forcing you to run back and forth between town and hunting.

ashen carbon
#

I’ll probably move my gem locker down to Illistim and reduce my account from premium to 1 character for a month. If I can’t hit at least 35k on a near capped wizard per week then I’ll just quit.

hard folio
#

boxes I found have ranged from 6k silver on the low, and 18k on the high. Plus 1-2 gems per box and random assortment of other items. The one thing I can say is other then the silvers, the box contents have been very low value. getting like 8k silver a hunt outside of the silvers in the boxes.

tawny sierra
royal epoch
#

Chests that have excessive silver will now instead contain a gold ingot that takes the place of some of that silver's value. Same value as the silver they would've displaced, but half the weight.

#

Sellable at the gem shop.

lucid latch
royal epoch
#

Yes.

#

It should work now.

hard folio
#

my halflings thank you Auchand

royal epoch
#

But you did it as I was syncing things.

long coral
royal epoch
#

I'll monitor to see if we got the threshold right, but ingots will only appear if the silver value was over 5500 silvers.

mossy forge
#

Honestly, I would have thought a gear-breakage system, similar to what WoW or Diablo uses, would have been more effective at stymieing the flow of coin. As players hunt more, they naturally pay more in repair costs for high-end gear, creating a built-in sink. Your stuff shouldn't be deleted, just unusable till you fix your god-sword.

At least that approach is reciprocal in nature.

But I'm done for the night. Later folks.

royal epoch
#

(Since that's still luggable.)

#

Ingots are not affected by any trading mods, etc. They're just worth the silver value that would've been displaced.

lucid latch
#

Step 1. Implement loot change; Step 2. Go watch Omrii In Shattered for near immediate results.

south trail
#

The locksmith pool wants 2500 to pick my box? Is that right?

boreal bobcat
#

Yep

normal drum
#

Did pickpocketing just become better too?

visual oar
#

don't worry. in a week or so there won't be any locksmiths willing to pick at the pool, so you'll no longer need to pay the 30% fee :p

orchid dawn
south trail
#

I'm confused. Is there like 25K in the box? If not I guess I need to figure something out.

bright pasture
#

this was an odd change to implement mid month, imo. i think for everyone that is finding nothing - it may be the case that the slope will be much less steep for next month and we'll be no where near loot cap on the 17th.

yes, it is boring to not find any loot, but this is not a realistic test of the system. i think we should see how long it takes to get to 1% before we complain about the 1%, imo

the box pool was nice, but it obviated an entire aspect of the game and i am glad there is a reason to train to open my own boxes again

boreal bobcat
lucid latch
#

So the ingots to the gemshop or pawnshop?

long coral
visual oar
lucid latch
tawny sierra
mental compass
normal drum
#

Got to pickpocket the gold ingots…

orchid dawn
chilly berry
#

In the new system: does having a loot capped character in your group effect the loot gotten by others in the group?

lucid latch
#

Yea, 1410 to the gemshop for the ingot I've got; 400 to the pawnshop. Had six of them in my bags after like ten minutes.

bright pasture
fast cipher
#

I assume it's because they didn't want to implement it during DR

ashen carbon
#

Just before a holiday weekend

long coral
orchid dawn
#

and the 1% is lees with skins im getting 14 coins per skin when that average was 3-5k per broodtender skins

ivory marten
#

don't care about the loot so much never have but theres no way i get to play all my chars 15hrs a week sheesh sorry some people have to work

bright pasture
#

i guess, yeah. but a lot of the complaints in this chat relate directly to the suffering of the 1% treasure

in any case, i miss opening my own boxes and look forward to relearning all of it

i also want to gently suggest that we tend to re-equilibrate our time-value in this game - such that time spent tends to equal the same amount of purchasing power. i think no matter the case, people will find loop holes and work arounds and some way to game the new system. it often happens that the new workaround ends up more profitable than it was before.

i can't, of course, promise that it will happen with these changes - and indeed maybe even some of them will be reverted or modified. but this is definitely the course of history that i have witnessed

orchid dawn
#

and also till next couple weeks go by have to skipp al gem bounties gem bountys

bright pasture
# orchid dawn and also till next couple weeks go by have to skipp al gem bounties gem bountys

yes, i am excited to see where the equilibrium lies for gem bounties. i have historically kept a locker full of gem jars and i am curious to see if the equilibrium will tend toward emptying them, being in stasis somehow and/or remaining relatively full.

if it tends toward emptying, the player shop gem market will expect to see an increase

i stopped skinning a long time ago since high-value enhancives tip the system. i'm well past loot cap this month but found a +14 logic chain-whip today, so who knows what it will look like when loot cap resets

visual oar
#

it's all about +dis and -log now to minimize exp absorption to hit those 15 hours!

#

with low logic, a head/nerve wound, and off-node, you could get to a point where you don't absorb any exp each pulse, letting you afk for the full 15 hours. edit: nvm needs some tweaking. ..what nessu said below me.

ashen carbon
#

need to absorb at least 10 or you don't get resources

visual oar
#

good point. okay so if you tweak that down to 10 exp every 2 min, then that's 200 minutes per 1000 exp (more if you have a lot of dis). so you'd only need to hunt like 5 times each day and can just afk the rest

tender scarab
# royal epoch The tiers now determine the gem's value.

I think there are still distinctions within tiers. I'm seeing several "unusual" gemstones stop purifying around 5000, but firedrops, deathstones, and spruce green emeralds go up to more like 7500. Edit: And faceted teal sapphires too on the 7500 front.

Edit: Meanwhile, twilight blue azurite crystals are unusual and stop at 6500.

ashen carbon
long coral
shrewd peak
# royal epoch Is hitting resource cap your sole motivation for playing?

I found this comment incredibly frustrating and discouraging. Honestly, resource acquisition is my primary motivation for playing right now. I play this game for my own enjoyment, and optimizing multiple characters to enhance my equipment is how I choose to engage with the mechanics.
I don't believe it is the place of staff to dictate the 'correct' way to play. This kind of attitude toward mechanical playstyles has pushed me to cancel accounts in the past, and it is exactly why I choose not to participate in roleplay. If my playstyle does not align with Gemstone Management's vision, I will take my business elsewhere.

visual oar
lucid latch
#

@royal epoch any chance the bright gold ingots could be bought by the gemshop when selling the gem container?

orchid dawn
long coral
boreal bobcat
#

An exp pulse averages 1 min, it's randomly 45s to 75s. A mana pulse is similar but averages 2 min.

mellow gyro
#

Lot of overreacting in this thread, but tame compared to others

ashen carbon
#

I don't think reacting to the fact that about 80 percent of my resource gen is going away is overreacting.

orchid dawn
#

they really should have waited till the end of the month to do this

visual oar
tender condor
ashen carbon
# orchid dawn they really should have waited till the end of the month to do this

Nah, this is good, because now that decision about where I'm spending my free money next month gets to be an easier decision. I'm not going to continue paying for premium, and buy a DR package if I'm being stripped of a majority of the reason I play the game. I can find other things to do with that time and money. I know I'm small potatoes to them, they don't need me.

long coral
#

Ya know if there was more concern ealier this might not of happened to this extent. Many folks were cheering to nerf people who made more than them because it didn't affect them. lack of opposition gave no reason to put pause or question to this.

ashen carbon
long coral
royal epoch
#

My mouth is predominantly for sushi.

#

I would appreciate it if you did not assign to me any motivations that don't exist or statements that I did not make.

rigid sparrow
#

Just wanna throw out there, if scrolls got a value nerf, charging them is based on their silver value.

ashen carbon
digital turtle
#

Resource Cap is obviously important to most players. Especially when the whole context of the changes is around a supposed attempt to balance loot, silver, and wealth generation between the top 5% and the other 95.

royal epoch
orchid dawn
long coral
boreal bobcat
#

By requiring them to be online to benefit!

mental compass
#

Well Multi Chars can generate around 25m/month per char, I can see how this is a problem

royal epoch
#

You said:

"I was seriously looking forward to hitting cap. Now I don’t even see the point in continuing.

If I devote all of my playtime to one character, I still might not hit resource cap on that single character.

Gonna be hard pressed to buy experience or temples of luminous if I don’t see the point in playing anymore"

I asked if that meant that your only motivation to play was hitting resource cap, because I wanted clarification on the point you were making.

old cedar
#

Regardless of if capping resources is "mandatory" it is an extreme change that hurts casual play with zero explanation or reasoning provided.

digital turtle
royal epoch
#

That is not assigning motivation to you, but rather explicitly asking what your motivation is.

slate bluff
#

I would take exp gainz over resources but i guess some people dont care too much about exp post cap and really rely on services for silver

royal epoch
orchid dawn
long coral
boreal bobcat
#

I think ya'll are not understanding Zaaldine's question. multi character account is not multi account.

ashen carbon
#

Well, genuine answer, hitting resource cap isn't my sole motivation for playing. But, being able to reliably get 85 percent was a good bit of it.

when you have things like account setups designed around people paying more to be able to play more characters while simultaneously taking away reasons for them to play more characters, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

rigid sparrow
thorny roost
#

Yes I would like to trade in 14 character slots of a premium account into something that actually benefits me.

mental compass
#

Changes were needed, I can see why.
I'm Wondering if various other costs (DR cert costs etc) will be reduced down to reflect the changes on the casual player that rely on their silver generation to help them take part in that event.
I can imagine that if a player went from making 180m in cap silvers and another say 96m in services will have that about halved. Their ability to partake in the event will be decreased which will apply pressure on them to use Real life currency and work on their items to the level they want to work on them.
This reaches further then one would expect at first glance.

digital turtle
slate bluff
#

I filled my 14 premium slots with the best GS names the 2002s ever seen... no ragrets

mild mirage
#

Ragrets seems like a fine GS name

long coral
#

they obviously choose to paint with a broad strokes. not saying I agree with it all, but at the same time you shouldn't expect to put it all on the backs of 5%. 5% that pays most of the cost to run this show.

old cedar
digital turtle
#

@long coral Instead they taxed everyone (nothing changes when it comes to ratios except people that made less will make even less) and then added insult to injury by adding an exp carrot that's too expensive for the majority as they've already admitted (raffles anyone?)

mental compass
slate bluff
#

Someone needs to do a bar chart with both the total exp and total resources at 2 hour intervals. Old vs new.

boreal bobcat
#

Raffles are too "expensive" because you get nothing if you lose. You're getting a better than violet orb at less a quarter of that one violet orb you paid 1k bs for!

long coral
orchid dawn
#

If the target is MAers when why do i feel it so bad to

ashen carbon
old cedar
digital turtle
boreal bobcat
#

If you can't afford a raffle it's because you put no effort what so ever to aquiring loot. Seems like a personal choice. It's because you log on and fry and log off twice a day.

slate bluff
mild mirage
#

As a person that thinks raffles are to expensive to participate in it's because I didn't think the odds justified the price

ashen carbon
royal epoch
#

I don't entirely understand that mentality, in the sense that experience gain is still super important to me. Your mileage may vary there.

#

None of these changes have made a dent on my desire for violet orbs or my brooch.

digital turtle
boreal bobcat
slate bluff
#

Its true that popping an rpa orb using a boost double exp is QoL when you need to finish resources for the week

chilly berry
ashen carbon
long coral
royal epoch
#

It's not like it's 16 hours or 0 resource gain.

digital turtle
boreal bobcat
split hamlet
#

If our experience bucket was twice the size the new resource management wouldn't feel so bad.

Just saying.

In case you wanted to make the experience bucket, bigger.

old cedar
#

We'll just encourage more afk zombies....

royal epoch
#

I've already brought up the resource concerns internally and I suspect we will be taking a look at some ways to lighten the yoke there, but if we don't, you'll still be able to progress your character even if you don't resource cap every week.

tender scarab
#

For whatever it's worth, I always thought that most people could afford the raffles and it was just a very vocal minority. I definitely can't prove that, however.

And it wasn't even a narrative from dev, but from players.

ashen carbon
royal epoch
#

On multiple characters, you mean?

visual oar
#

individual raffles aren't too bad. but when you have like 20 in an event and multiple accounts, it suddenly adds up to be several tens of millions

slate bluff
#

The old resource sweetspot at 3k per hr was like 5 hours for 37.5k resources wheras now after 5 hrs you get like 16kish?

digital turtle
finite trench
#

This would be the best possible time to remove gem bounties by the way

tender scarab
#

3k exp per hour in the sense of actually counting toward resources (i.e. disregarding instant exp absorption from bounty turn-ins) wasn't really a thing unless you were using orbs or something. Or during Gift of Lumnis, but that could only get you ~36k of the way there.

old cedar
#

Lumis, and yea, I think that was his point.

ashen carbon
#

Yes, 30k per character, down to 30k on one character and only if I can be logged in and in front of my computer. At least in the past there was the opportunity if I couldn't devote an evening to playing I could hunt, logoff, and keep all my spellups for when I came back. Now, having to lose that too means I have to also spend on spellup pills to do get the minimum

long coral
visual oar
royal epoch
slate bluff
#

I think by staying logged in to absorb

tender scarab
ashen carbon
royal epoch
#

I am really struggling, btw, with the refrain that's been going around that people's optimal way of playing the game is to not be logged in. It's just alien to my GS experience.

#

As I've said upthread, I just would have never considered doing that.

split hamlet
#

You shouldn't be rewarded more for logging out.

boreal bobcat
#

Have you even read Leafiara's lumnis brooch guide?

old cedar
#

You obviously have more time than us.... 🙂

It's optimal use of our available time to play to allow things like absorbing offline. Which is why it was added...

long coral
#

tone in text is a tricky thing. I'm sure Auchand is trying. give em a little benefit of the doubt.

royal epoch
#

It's kind of immaterial now, but I think if I had known about that as a method of play prior to these silver/experience changes, I would have been vehemently against it.

digital turtle
slate bluff
#

Apparently i been playing GS wrong this whole time and i just needed to be playing troubledwateroffline5kstoneiv 😢

royal epoch
ashen carbon
# royal epoch I am really struggling, btw, with the refrain that's been going around that peop...

OK, great, so what. But, why kill the online absorption? Don't you see how killing the online absorption also affects it? As I said upthread, I'd be ok with it if it wasn't getting hammered from both ends. I'd devote the time to being online with the character that I needed the absorption on.

And if you were 'vehemently against' that method of play, then you really should be vehemently against the entire concept of a premium account.

boreal bobcat
#

So about those Purification Song fixes. What's broke!?

royal epoch
#

That doesn't necessarily follow, IMO.

mental compass
#

I'm not a super big fan of Offline exp asbsobing. Its ok i guess, but it kind of defeats the point. It does create some gravity to that people sometimes struggle to get things done.

tender scarab
visual oar
chilly berry
# royal epoch As I've said upthread, I just would have never considered doing that.

I appreciate your candor here.

For a long time I was in that casual crowd. I had a new baby. I was able to get on for a few minute sin the morning. A few minutes at night. Make some progress.

I'm pretty sure that why Lumnis was migrated to being exp based rather than time based (used to be 3 or 6 hours or whatever), and offline exp absorption became a thing.

To help people who can only play 15-20 minutes in a day, maybe an hour or two on weekends, with actually making progress.

And because it was me for a while, its why I'm making a stink about it 🙂

royal epoch
#

Up until Nyxus taught me about Lich, I played maybe a couple of hours a week, so I'm far closer to that, @chilly berry.

mental compass
#

5.5hrs of picking in the pool, 1412 Exp to show for it. =/ Thats probably an unintended problem I guess.

visual oar
#

Another reason for offline absorption is that it gives you more flexibility in choosing which character to play. You may have already found your weekly gemstone on that character, so you can focus your online time on a different character that hasn't found one, etc.

chilly berry
royal epoch
#

I'm a workaholic and I'm frequently at the office 12 hours a day, plus a second job running IT for a homeless youth charity. My days are usually a sprint peppered with GS prep when I'm in meetings that don't require a lot of brainpower.

digital turtle
# tender scarab Right, I do know that, but it started from a grassroots movement of players comp...

I guess I'm not quite the insider here when it comes to all that extra info. My point is that they stated 250k for a raffle was unattainable for most players. People argued against that idea and they said they had the data that showed it. Now they introduce something to make level 100 more "attainable" and give it a weekly price tag that they've been quoted to say is unattainable for most players...

royal epoch
#

Just something that didn't get synchronized in the silver change rollout.

old cedar
lucid latch
#

My dream of purifying gold ingots was dashed.

royal epoch
#

I'd rather be with you guys.

visual oar
tender scarab
#

Err... Purification Song seems to be unable to purify anything now.

Edit: I mean just that. Nothing ever goes up in value. Either that or somehow base value and max value became the same.

Edit 2: Either that or maybe I need gems generated after whatever was just changed.

royal epoch
#

(Which is why I don't get annoyed by being yelled at.)

royal epoch
mental compass
#

OK I'm off. I need to sleep on this. Based on what I'm seeing I'm ok bending with all the other changes, the requirement to spend so much time IG to finish up the 50k per week is a back breaker. Safe hunting all!

split hamlet
boreal bobcat
#

We shall see.

digital turtle
#

they just want to make bandit hunters poor (or poorer than they already are)

chilly berry
tender scarab
#

Oh wait, no, maybe Alastir's right.

You peer intently at the cobalt blue spinel as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the cobalt blue spinel is an extremely common gemstone of magnificent quality and worth approximately 1,900 silvers!

Edit: Wait, extremely common? Those were pretty rare...

You peer intently at the ice blue dreamstone as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the ice blue dreamstone is an extremely common gemstone of magnificent quality and worth approximately 1,800 silvers!
You peer intently at the glacial core as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the glacial core is an extremely common gemstone of magnificent quality and worth approximately 3,800 silvers!

Maybe I do need to go get fresh gems.

ashen carbon
boreal bobcat
#

Uhm every single gem is magnificent quality that I've looked at. I think you made a booboo. All of my OLD gems are now magnificent quality. I can't prove it but my old sung to diamonds may have had their value slashed in half as well .... oh boy

visual oar
#

will the new gems go into jars already partially filled with old verisons?

split hamlet
slate bluff
#

My gem locker.... im riiich now

south trail
#

I for one am happy to see all the player activity. silver lining!

tender scarab
#

Yeah, going to generate some fresh gems since I'm not sure I trust these. They were found after the silver changes in general, but not after whatever just was done with 1004.

old cedar
split hamlet
# chilly berry Wasn't that one of the things on your list?

It's a difference in implementation. My suggestion was to reduce what they SOLD for, not what their VALUE is.

My changes would have targeted the pawnshop, gemshop and furrier when SELLing, leaving their value for all other systems.

I wonder if I should check my orb cubby to see if all my stored gems are now junk.

ashen carbon
# split hamlet Isn't it technically a non-play style.

You're right, it's a non-play style, which is exactly what I'm considering transitioning permanently to right now.
But you can always ignore the second half of why I'm upset about that, the fact that online absorption is also being destroyed and realize I would have been ok with it if it were just one of them.

boreal bobcat
#

Yeah that's very uncool. hundreds of pre nerf gems just had their values slashed in half

chilly berry
#

Quick question:

Since skin values are sticky, does that mean that it will take hundreds of skins to fill my animalist totem?

Or will the totem fill based on base skin value, not post-loot-capped value?

royal epoch
#

I think the messaging there requires an update, though.

split hamlet
tender scarab
#

They still look extremely common and magnificent, but heading out momentarily to find new gems.

south trail
#

For Auchland and GS devs - don't take anything you read on the internets personally. No one says peep about the 99 things you did right, but people will fly half way around the world to tell let you know you misspelled a word wrong. Funny trick I'd pull when I played WOW. If I asked for directions in general chat, no one would respond, so instead I'd give the wrong directions and I'd 10 people instantly giving me the right directions. :🤷:

boreal bobcat
mild mirage
finite trench
slate bluff
#

I didny see anything on the dev announcement about offline exp. What is that change?

split hamlet
# 
>app my diam
You peer intently at the snowblind diamond as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws.  As best you can tell, the snowblind diamond is an extremely common gemstone of average quality.
>put diam in lockb

>app my sap
You peer intently at the wyrm's heart sapphire as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws.  As best you can tell, the wyrm's heart sapphire is an extremely common gemstone of average quality.

You remove a nival everfrost shard from in a well-secured lockbox.
>app my shard
You peer intently at the everfrost shard as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws.  As best you can tell, the everfrost shard is an extremely common gemstone of average quality.

Why are all of these extremely common gemstones?

After:

You peer intently at the everfrost shard as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws.  As best you can tell, the everfrost shard is an extraordinarily rare gemstone of average quality.  It would need to be supplied to be used in an alteration.

You peer intently at the wyrm's heart sapphire as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws.  As best you can tell, the wyrm's heart sapphire is a very rare gemstone of average quality.  It would need to be supplied to be used in an alteration.
royal epoch
#

Check again now?

lucid latch
#

Because half the player base hunts there.

tender scarab
ashen carbon
old cedar
#

And it's about to be more!

boreal bobcat
#

You peer intently at the uncut diamond as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the uncut diamond is a rare gemstone of magnificent quality and worth approximately 5,500 silvers!
says they are rare now, still missing all the added value from purification before the changes today.

tender scarab
#

You peer intently at the black moonstone as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the black moonstone is a rare gemstone of magnificent quality and worth approximately 1,800 silvers!
I feel like base value and max value became identical or something. (This one was freshly generated.)

Edit:
You peer intently at the cobalt blue spinel as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the cobalt blue spinel is a rare gemstone of average quality and worth approximately 1,900 silvers.
Getting warmer?

boreal bobcat
#

These kinds of changes live adjusting the value of things people already have is very uncool.

old cedar
# south trail For Auchland and GS devs - don't take anything you read on the internets persona...

I think this is a bad take.

Don't take it personally is a good piece of advice, and there will always be some people out there that are negative, but you can't dismiss customer/player feedback as a whole, especially when there's a clear majority on a particular topic.

Also, I think the player base here actually does a good job of giving kudos and thanks on the positives. I'm sure there could always be more, but it's not nearly nonexistent.

gloomy lark
#

is there a clear majority? Or is that your opinion?

old cedar
finite trench
#

If you appraise a gem that is over the new value caps it should explode

royal epoch
split hamlet
warm spire
#

Are bounty points reduced now my gem and fur ones I just turned in only netted 50 points well below my lowest ones previous

mystic vale
royal epoch
tender scarab
# royal epoch Hot?

You peer intently at the niveous snowdrop as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the niveous snowdrop is a very rare gemstone of average quality and worth approximately 3,900 silvers. It would need to be supplied to be used in an alteration.
That looks more normal and was generated after you posted this.

south trail
boreal bobcat
# royal epoch What changes are doing that?

Your changes. All the uncut diamonds and uncut emeralds that I had from before that were outstanding quality and appraise for 9500+ are all appraising for 5300-5800 and magnificent quality.

ashen carbon
old cedar
dusky kernel
#

my case in point .. in some ways it is great that you are here listening and chatting, but upset folks see you, the only simu person around after the change, and are going to assign all the blame to you whether you are deserving or not. And when you ask questions now, after the fact, about what people think about resource gen, when it was never brought up as a problem before.. it's going to be misinterpreted, as it just was

royal epoch
#

They still have the same value as before.

finite trench
tender scarab
south trail
boreal bobcat
# royal epoch Just a messaging bug. 
You ask Krosane to appraise an uncut diamond.
The jeweler Krosane takes the uncut diamond and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give 
you 6,104 silvers for it if you want to sell."

Mana:  151   Silver: 6,104

Is the silver reported from info after the sale of said gem also a messaging bug?

It saying magnificent may be a messaging bug. Me receiving 4k less than it was work not 30 minutes ago, is not a messaging bug.

old cedar
split hamlet
hardy delta
#

I hunted today for about 12 hours straight and scheduled my Lumnis to start an hour after the changes went into effect. Using the 5x lumnis purchase I was able to earn 86k experience. In that 12 hours of playing I made 26k resources. Now that's some earning resources at the old rate and some at the new. But that's still crazy slow. Or at least it feels insanely slow.

ashen carbon
royal epoch
#

If your diamond had a value of 8,000 before, it still has a value of 8,000.

#

No change that we rolled out lowered the value of pre-existing gems.

dusky kernel
#

a clarifying question about the simucoin item -- so it says up to 100,000 bonus exp.. so doing the maths that's 25k base experience and 100k bonus to get you 125k total (the 5x)?

royal epoch
#

That's stored on the gem, and we did not mass update that field in any way.

finite trench
#

Resource point soft cap at 25k per week

boreal bobcat
tender scarab
royal epoch
chilly berry
#

So... not to detract too much from the gem conversation because I realize that's more global.

Animalistic totems. I just checked and they only go off of the appraised value.

I'm new to loot cap, and today's shift took me from flirting with old soft cap to well into it.

but it can't be an intended consequence that these after spending 30k bloodscrip on an item that it becomes worthless in the latter part of the month?

Is that worth a bugitem? Or is here a fine place for that feedback?

boreal bobcat
royal epoch
mild mirage
#

It would be intersting if an item's value was not the same as the coin received from selling it

royal epoch
#

So, one of the gems in Hypate's hand has a value of 6900 and the other is 5250.

mystic vale
royal epoch
#

Both looted Wednesday.

chilly berry
royal epoch
#

We didn't futz with skin values that I know of.

hardy delta
#

the animalistic totem had an unlock that allowed gems to charge it too. Now the appraised value of gems dropping has dropped the charges per gem to near nothing.

split hamlet
#

Loot cap reduces the value of skins, yes. So you will get less charges.

Can you confirm, have all gems had their base values reduced?

royal epoch
#

That's something we can probably address, along with chrism values.

inland moat
rigid sparrow
#

the totems need to be addressed completely. the amount of skins they currently use before the change was absolutely outrageous.
I bought a Tier 5 swift strike totem and wanted to be rid of it within a day.

chilly berry
# royal epoch Is that because of loot cap?

Yes.

It looks like the amount that the totem charges is based on the capped loot value. Which is pennies on the dollar! Pennies I tells ya! So yeah. like 10+ skins for 1 charge is what I'm getting right now.

Oh, and the gem thing to.

hardy delta
warm spire
#

I turned in 10 snowblind diamonds just now and only got 55 bounty points where usually its way above a thousand is this going to stay this ways

inland moat
#

Anything that is charged with loot needs to be cut by 75% imo. Animalistic totems and thaumatauge tomes and the like

rigid sparrow
long coral
#

value is a factor for some bounty turn ins, meaning yes loot value hurts BP. welcome to the top 5%

tender scarab
#

Huh, gem bounties' BPs were based on the gem itself before, not the value of the gem...

dusky kernel
rigid sparrow
#

The amount of BP's you get from skin bounties are definitely based on skin value.

warm spire
#

I sold 10 of them for a least 7k and only 50 BPs somethings off

split hamlet
#

If we're updating bounties, let's do the other bounty updates that would make things better:

https://gswiki.play.net/User:GS4ALASTIR/Proposal:Loot_Cap#Bounties

**Instead of being required to track down a specific creature, all creatures in the assigned area are acceptable targets.

**Instead of being required to track down a specific creature which will spawn an ancient/grizzled version, all creatures in the assigned area are acceptable targets and may spawn an ancient/grizzled version.

**Remove quality as a component of the task.
**Success rate for skinning is modified to always provide a skin, except for fumbles.
**Ranks in Survival and First aid still determine the value and quality of the skin, and higher qualities still provide more bounty points.

* Allow skinning tasks to be shared with group members.  Group members will have a cull # bounty.

When a bounty is shared, bandits for example, a random number is assigned to each person the bounty is shared with.  Instead of assigning a random number, assign the same number to each person the bounty is shared with.
long coral
#

I quit doing gem bounties a long time back, my skinning bounties are awful BP during loot cap though.

tender scarab
hardy delta
#

perhaps you're at loot cap Oogey and they would normally be that many BP?

warm spire
#

I am not close to loot cap

tender scarab
#

Were the gem BPs changed to be derived from a percentage of the base value instead of the max value, maybe? Even then I'd still expect to see more like 100-150 BPs than 50, though, but...

boreal bobcat
#

I see my gems are appraising correctly now. A few of them even say outstanding instead of magnificent now where they use to all say outstanding.

warm spire
#

The furs were 50 the 5 pink topazes 50 and 10 snowblind diamonds 55

tender scarab
#

Pink topazes and snowblind diamonds being so close in BPs definitely seems bizarre.

bright pasture
#

for what it’s worth, i just checked an old eye-of-koar emerald that i use for assessing trading, and it appraises at the gem shop exactly the same as it did before

warm spire
#

before well over 1k BP

rigid sparrow
dusky kernel
#

Auchand did you make the ingots? What's that do like keep total silvers under 10k?

warm spire
#

My gems were all old sitting in a backpack gathered a while ago

tender scarab
inland moat
#

These new gems are serious business! I've never blown my bards hand up so many times in one sitting as I have tonight.

dusky kernel
# 
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>app ing
>
You ask Diamante to appraise a bright gold ingot.
The jeweler Diamante takes the gold ingot and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give you 12,404 silvers for it if you want to sell."
>sell ing
You ask Diamante if she would like to buy a bright gold ingot.
The jeweler Diamante takes the gold ingot, gives it a careful examination and hands you 12,404 silver for it.``` ahh okay yeah I think I was chatting with someone earlier and said tradebars, this is also a solid improvement I think ( I spent far too long trying to figure out why I was encumbered lol)
boreal bobcat
split hamlet
dusky kernel
#

I think it depends on the silver it came from, and probably is still some amount lighter than what the silvers would be? I definitely had a lighter ingot just earlier

boreal bobcat
#

Yeah that was probably like 15k ingot they chipped their 2.5k fee off of. ~40% weight reduction on the silver

dusky kernel
#

there was still silver in the box as well, Im sure there is some randomness to it etc but I assume it is an improvement, bravo

bronze lava
#

I think he said anything under 5.5k is silver so maybe it rounds it for each ingot and gives the rest in silver?

tender scarab
#

I really need to call it a night, but gem value doesn't seem to be purely based on rarity tier. I just maxed out a niveous snowdrop and stygian lichstone (each "very rare") around 8000-8500 even though vivid cobalt blue spinels (just "rare") max around 9500.

Edit: Wait, maybe these are old spinels, sec...
Edit 2: Oh yeah, they were. New spinels max around 4000? Going to try a few more to confirm.

old cedar
#

I thought everyone went to bed already it got so quiet... 😄

tender scarab
#

Okay, yeah, vivid cobalt blue spinels back off the purification list. I'm too tired to keep going for now, though. Will have to figure out the rest tomorrow (technically today).

Edit: Nope. My conscience won't let me sleep without figuring out the rest. 😂

Edit 2: Okay, 20 minutes after my original comment, I'm content. Flickering snowfire rubies, brilliant snowblind diamonds, and dark ivory aranthium-blooms are outta here in what had been my purification rotation before today, and anything else below "very rare" at minimum. Time to collapse.

long coral
brave sorrel
#

I deleted some posts. If commentary isn't related to the topic then it does not belong here and likely not on this Discord at all.

raw pike
#

Something a little wonky with the jeweler in Teras,

shake bot

You give your bottle a hard shake, causing some dragonfire quartz to fall into your right hand.

sell quart
You ask Lornkrek if he would like to buy some dragonfire quartz.
The dwarven clerk takes the dragonfire quartz, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,058 silver for it.

[You need to sell 2 more to complete your task.]
There is no merchant here that can buy that.

You ask Lornkrek if he would like to buy some dragonfire quartz.
The dwarven clerk takes the dragonfire quartz, gives it a careful examination and hands you 1,310 silver for it.

[You need to sell 1 more to complete your task.]
There is no merchant here that can buy that.

Dayle says, "All done with that assignment? Good job,
**
[You have earned 50 bounty points, 1000 experience points, and 6 silver.]**

There is no merchant here that can buy that ... although he just bought it!
Also I didn't see the changes to Gem Bounties noted in the changes... doesn't seem right that I'm only getting 50 bounty points and 6 silver reward.

mystic vale
#

[You have earned 50 bounty points, 1000 experience points, and 12 silver.]
white point star diamonds

long coral
#

it's a nerf to silver generation. you aren't gonna earn the same silver. BP is tied to silver for some circumstances

granite tartan
# royal epoch You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especial...

Nerfing things and adding unnecessary tedium is going to get this sort of response, idk why that’s so surprising. I don’t even have a service alt and that resource change that nobody asked for or had any idea was coming is going to be a huge net negative for everyone both in game and on Simu’s books.

Could have just lowered the loot cap numbers and left the rest alone and it would have been fine. 15m vs 35m, big deal who cares. Nerfing gem values wasn’t needed either and just adds more tedium to purifying which is already one of the most tedious systems in the game.

Nerfs in general are one thing, but adding even more tedium to anything as a result should never be on the table. Yet here we are again, and not long after those recent heavy ascension nerfs already have people annoyed.

TLDR: If changes/nerfs add tedium, you should expect negative feedback. The amount of effort put into it shouldn’t and won’t be a shield from that.

slate bluff
#

Wyrom definitely took PTO this weekend haha...

frosty gate
#

Selling Innate Focus Gemstone for 100m.

*this is just a joke, please don't hurt me.

But on a serious note, this is the perfect chance to possibly make this rare property actually useful and make it 100% resource gain at level 5.

stiff grove
#

250k silver per week lumnis donation for the experience boost to help reach cap? Pretty much useless for a fairly new player who'd only be able to pay that amount if they were already near cap.

frosty gate
#

Maybe the lumnis donation should be on a sliding scale depending on how much total experience (normal and ascension) the person has.

100 experience? Practically free.

1m away from cap? 200k or whatever.

Cap+? The current 250k price tag.

split girder
#

Negative feedback: Some aspect of the gem changes has impaired my ability to make orb gems with 1004. I am frustrated by this and would like it put back the way it was. Thx.

stiff grove
civic niche
#

I thought someone said it was a sliding scale from levels 1-20. Which was why you can’t pre buy under 20 but maybe I misunderstood

verbal turret
old cedar
#

I was sad that the gem charging on them became part of the "auto-select" tier.... I'd like the auto-select, but the gem charging I don't care about, so I won't be paying 200k to do the final upgrade.

#

I really don't feel like boxes are giving 3x XP. The pool hasn't been bad (yet) likely because I'm picking off-hours, but I have yet to fry 40 boxes in, and usually I've used at least one brooch rub by now. Feels like lots more downtime between sets of boxes, too, but that's a feels like, I don't have past numbers to compare.

Update: Fried at 56 boxes, rubed a planar, 2 boxes later got told to wait. 😄

dusky kernel
frosty gate
#

Has anyone done some testing on what the locksmith fee is? I read some crazy numbers last night like 50% of the value of the box, but I just did one box and it was roughly 10%, which still sucks, but isn't nearly as bad as I was thinking.

old cedar
#

From what I've seen from others, there's some wide variances, and the fee value doesn't seem to be using the same value as tip percent.

frosty gate
#

Yeah it's weird. Just did another box and it was roughly 13%.

Okay and another one was roughly 15%, but almost all of the value in this box was silver, so I wonder if it's more related to silver value in the box rather than total value. Maybe that's why boxes drop so much silver now.

Okay so much for that theory. Thought I was onto something with 2 boxes in a row having a roughly 15% cost of just the silver in the box, but then the next box was 23% of the cost of the silvers. The cost compared to the total value of the box is all over the place as well.

I've seen anywhere from 10% to 17% of the locksmith fee compared to the total value of the box. Which is still not nearly as bad as I was thinking it was gonna be.

broken vector
#

probably would have felt much better if they had just reduced the value of the box contents and put a reasonable fee like 500 silvers, with the same net loss of silver generation

alpine walrus
fading flare
#

Make it tradable for silver at the Exchange Booth. Or exempt gold from the gemshop cap. Second one would be better.

alpine walrus
#

I'll save the big ones that don't sell...

See if it gets adjusted

haughty jacinth
#

Made boxes, gaining resources, gems, basic services more tedious and added some additional pay to win, what's not to love.

broken vector
#

after sleeping on it I still think a much better plan would have been:

  1. Let the new EXP boosts make resource gain VERY fast - if people are paying 250k, why not - they probably would have capped resources or gotten close anyways
  2. Go ahead and kill offline resource generation if you want people to play a lot for resources
  3. Now people will be incentivized to log on and play their alts:
  • because they are done faster on their mains
  • because they can do it faster on their alts

Net result: players playing alts online, more silvers drained, instead of killing my alts/playstyle I just have to adjust my playstyle (and no, playing more hours per week is not a reasonable adjustment to expect). This would still take a lot more work than offline exp imo, and take away from playing my main, and I wouldn't be able to do as many alts, but it's an interesting/fun tradeoff.

Another topic: not sure this is intended, but all my gems from before last night are **not **able to be purified by 1004 - is this intended?

broken vector
granite tartan
unkempt ravine
# royal epoch You do have to realize that this can be extremely emotionally draining, especial...

Yes, I know this and I can sympathize with the effort but please understand that it has taken great effort to get to a certain point as a character. I've played since the 90s. We're talking 30 years (I was an infant so shush!) and I capped Katara myself after 20+ years. It took me forever but I was also never a power hunter. I reached this time in my game life and want to enjoy it and enchanting (I'm talking professional resources specifically) is an enjoyment as a core mage function, it's a help for my and my alts and for some silver generation. It still took 4 weeks min to enchant high level things. That limits the amount of enchanting any character can do - I don't really do any other professional resource at this time so I can only speak on enchanting which historically has been one of the most sought after services ingame). But that has also changed over the years. I have alts and a few accounts but what I do not have is time. I prefer ingame stuff like running a CHE, RPing, Crafting to hunting but I force myself to hunt (don't get me wrong I enjoy the violence of it at times 😉 but my main reason to hunt is to get my professional resource weekly. There are many weeks were I simply do not have the time to max it out even if I am ingame bc of other responsibilities. I find this extremely punitive and I fail to see the reason behind it. Even a power hunter with 10 wizards they max out weekly still has a limit as to how much they can do. There is no way to kneecap power players without destroying casual LONGTIME - REAL LONGTIME players reason to keep going! It then falls to friendships, rp and maybe wanting to stay around bc everything else is just too hard and too time consuming! This hurts my soul.

sturdy ridge
#

Convert box silvers to gold coins

mellow dock
#

If that weren't true, I'd be so offended

split girder
#

I'm really disappointed in the loot changes rolled out yesterday. Unsure how else to put it but yeah.

primal creek
old cedar
stoic kayak
#

I've made it through a lot of changes over the decades, including the uprooting of Plat into Prime. I've generally taken it all in stride because I'm pretty casual at playing about an hour or so a day. Now I cant even cap resources in a week with my play time. This is likely the change that will see me off as a casual player.

abstract fulcrum
primal creek
sturdy ridge
#

7 hours

old cedar
unkempt ravine
chilly tulip
#

Resource change out of left field absolutely nuking both genuine casual players and people who had resource alts on a single account is nuts. I feel like they could have just done the silver nerfs and exp changes and called it good.

primal creek
# old cedar Yeah, I'll give final judgement for later for sure, on the boxes. More it's abo...

The other thing I want to mention is that I went from 2 people well into loot cap with...more than I care to mention, sitting around 15m into old loot cap. This morning they are of course into loot cap but I have things I want to do on them. So I am not switching yet. Its going to take just a little bit of time to figure out my rotation. Just sayin. And yes XP should be looked at if you aren't getting the extra xp.

dusky kernel
dusky kernel
granite tartan
brazen salmon
#

I can understand looking at offline resource gain (I also had no idea that was a thing really) but dropping the amount of resource gained while actively online and hunting feels really bad.

old cedar
#

In my opinion....The resource nerf is a massive problem, and I have concerns about the box changes that we'll need to see how shake out (re: pool and picking for rogues), but aside from that I don't have any huge issues with the other changes, which are more or less along the lines of what I expected and were needed.

dusky kernel
#

250k for a better than violet orb essentially? hard to be mad at that

wintry shard
#

Consistently picking up a box and going from 4 sec rt to 12 sec rt is no bueno in a group of critters. Although I guess looting habits can and will change. I also had to run into town multiple times during a hunt last night just to unload a few boxes.

old cedar
#

It would seem that disks are the solution there, since boxes are supposed to be far less common, but I suspect there's problems fitting boxes in a disk now, too.

broken vector
#

disks are based on item number, not weight, so they just got buffed

although actually the ingot thing adds an extra item so also nerfed

old cedar
dire rivet
#

the announcement is unclear to me, does the new 5x-4x Lumnis replace the existing 3x-2x? Or is it on top of it... 5x-4x and then you start x3x-2x?

sleek meadow
#

The weight of boxes is still an issue that needs to be reviewed. It entirely nerfs gnomes and similar and it makes no sense a single box ends a hunt. The ingots are a step in the right direction but I’m going to suggest we expand disks. Make each disk hold 3-4 boxes regardless of size and allow a box to be picked up and put in a disk. Those things won’t negatively impact anyone and they would improve the game for almost all players.

edgy hollow
old cedar
sleek meadow
#

Also the online vs offline resource changes only hurts and annoys. There were a number of ways this could have been tweaked and Occam’s razor approaches would have been superior. Same with the locksmith pool. This feels like complexity for complexity sake and more about a small bubble of issues than the engagement of the majority of players. Casuals pay too!

unkempt ravine
#

Lower the loot cap, I don't care I never have and never will reach it. (I can't speak on box changes as I shove mine at a rogue friend) But resource changes are unnecessary because even with enchanting, the cost for that player service has come down quite a bit so the silver generation is not what it used to be. But why are people who basically work in their craft being punished? And from what I have read all of this has been done because 27% of players are basically power players who make a lot of silver or trade it. That leaves.. let me see if my math is right.. yes .. 73% - SEVENTY-THREE percent of players not that problem! So, 73% are being punished for 27% of players? Am I right? Come on, you do not see an issue here? Give a player that loots over XYZ a penalty phase in looting and if they open more account to bypass that - the game is making more money. I do not get this. If the problem came from the big auction - then do what the did back on Feon's Promise (I so spelled feon wrong); do a raffle section where you cannot participate if you are in the silver auction, period. That distributes more items to players with less. Or find some other creative solution - hurting 73% of players for this is overkill.

split girder
#

The easiest change would have been to reduce the monthly account loot cap as a starting point, see how it affects things, and then continue applying changes. As it stands there has been so much fussing all at once I have low confidence that the changes can be undone in incremental fashion.

old cedar
split hamlet
unkempt ravine
split girder
split hamlet
#

The only point I'd like to leave everyone with as I go off to bed, is that at least we have Auchand participating, if not leading these changes. And he is a reasonable man. I'm not sure I would have the same trust in others that I do in him based upon his previous workings.

alpine walrus
frosty gate
#

Since the game apparently knows exactly how much silver we have collected that count towards the loot cap, can we at least get a verb in game showing how much silver we have collected in the current month? I really don't see how showing this information to players can possibly hurt anything.

fierce lantern
unkempt ravine
#

I also want to point out I am not unique. Many casual players are in the same boat and do not have more time to play. And I am sure a good chunk of that 73% fall into this category. I know a lot of my crafters do! And I also know a lot of them come in game to rp, craft etc and their only character based function is topping off their weekly resource. We're all already going to make less silver, must this resource thing be added on top of that?

sturdy ridge
#

I vote for no more silvers in boxes. Easiest solution. Or weightless gold coins

old cedar
#

Encumbrance has a purpose though. (The implementation is still a problem, but I don't think we can just get rid of encumberance).

mellow dock
broken vector
sturdy ridge
chilly tulip
#

The resource change is a solution in search of a problem

civic niche
#

So I applaud the weight hotfix, but honestly, after sleeping on it, I'm still pretty bent about these changes. Honestly, it's probably not even these changes, it's the culmination of my massive disappointment in the entire gemstone system (gemstones, not GS) with these sort of gut punch changes. I just feel like dev isn't playing the same game the rest of us are anymore.

mellow dock
fierce lantern
split hamlet
#

Remove the random percent based fee for the locksmith pool. It's user unfriendly. Make it a flat fee per box and reduce the silvers in the box that would have gone towards the pool fee.

Or remove the fee altogether and just remove those silvers from the box directly.

If the pool fee is 30% and comes out of the loot cap then the real loot cap is 10m anyway.

So just reduce the loot cap to 10m to begin with and make the loot pool function as it always has and how people are accustomed to.

The new way is just exceedingly more tedious for no benefit. A lower loot cap is what was expected anyway, not a frustrating loot pool experience.

civic niche
chilly tulip
#

Loot cap is now 10m and you're paying 30% of it to the pool so loot cap is actually now 6.something mil lol. I'm sure costs of stuff will come down too. Any minute now. Gemstones. CLAIM EVENT. Etc...

valid orbit
#

Well, yes, practically that's probably a good suggestion. However, it would hurt people trying to be personal pickers because the loot would just not have existed to begin with for tips. Not saying that's a huge deal, just would mean there would be no incentive to pick your own boxes.

split hamlet
#

That's not a thing nor will it be a thing for the majority

mystic snow
#

I'm getting virtually zero treasure from hunting. In the days prior to the auction earlier this month, I hunted much more than usual, generating several million silvers, in addition to selling gems that I had accumulated in my locker over months or years (so there are both generation and liquidation issues). That unusual burst of silver collection apparently put me over the new cap. I have a spreadsheet going back to 2018 tracking weekly silver accumulation, adjusting out the effects of player shop income and ensorcelling income. The average weekly silver collection from hunting during that time was 1.3 million, significantly below the new cap. Retroactively implementing this new rule during the same month as a silver auction is unfair. It leaves me, and probably several others similarly situated, stuck earning almost no silvers for the next two weeks, assuming the monthly cap is based on a calendar month and not a rolling 30-day period. I’d ask that the cap either be reset for the remainder of January or that it only count silver generated after the implementation date.

mellow dock
#

Question for everyone- were Phase and 314 updated to reflect the changes?

sleek meadow
# sturdy ridge Vote to get rid of encumbrance!

Almost every game I’ve ever played that has some silver type of currency with encumbrance eventually drops it. It ultimately becomes a player annoyance with no clear upside. If the coding won’t let them make silver stackable or .01 of its current weight then either 1) weightless or 2) create a much more intentional and accessible coin weight reduction pouch that holds all coins.

valid orbit
frosty gate
# dusky kernel I still think it's 50/50 that they either they didn't want to tell anyone before...

I honestly didn't know offline absorption alts were a thing either. Someone else commented on this earlier and I wonder if this is true: with apparently quite a few people only logging on their characters for 2 hunts a day, earning maybe 100k silver a day on them, I wonder if GMs were looking at those characters and were like "Yup! The proof is right there! Some characters are earning millions of silvers a month and some characters are barely making 2 million silvers a month" without realizing that, at least some people, were earning fewer silvers on purpose.

split hamlet
#

We need a no and yes emoji so I dont have to wait out the post timer.

sturdy ridge
broken vector
civic niche
mellow dock
royal epoch
split hamlet
#

People were begging to have it out by friday. Some of us were suggesting at the start of the month for a reason.

granite tartan
royal epoch
#

I will say that, from my admittedly narrow perspective, I'd rather get a change out like this and then rapidly update affected systems that we weren't able to catch in pre-planning.

#

Not limiting that to this particular change.

broken vector
# mellow dock Or that we have a small staff that have been tackling holidays, constant events,...

no doubt - but they asking a lot of money from us - and have decided against pre-releasing design docs so we can provide feedback/testing ahead of time - so it's hard to have a ton of pity on them when these things get rolled out with numerous glaring issues...and very little communication from everyone except Auchand.

And that's NOT to say I don't appreciate and respect them and want to help and support them...but an unannounced bad change that goes against their stated goals can warrant negative feedback.

half sable
#

Thanks for being in here and taking feedback Auchand, I'm sure this room feels like it's pelting you with rotten tomatoes

edgy hollow
civic niche
mellow dock
cold zephyr
#

spent 10 minutes on a hunt with my warrior, no loot boost active. killed 44 creatures, successfully skinned 37. Numbers in () are vaules of gems.
treasure found:
6387 silver
2x star ruby (649 & 525)
2x pink topaz (298 & 248)
3x star sapphire (699, 565 & 520)
2x green sapphire (665 & 672)
yellow sapphire (632)
golden topaz (318)
polished red coral (242)
large black pearl (1377)

4 wands (gold, twisted, silver, iron)
silver lockpick
2x crystal amulet
small statue
white crystal

Total silver = 42,165 for a 10 minute hunt.

Not a single box found this hunt and still looking for 2 emeralds to complete my gem bounty. I didn't find any emeralds last night when I spent 15 minutes with a major loot boost active. The spot he hunts isn't poor, but it's not spewing massive treasure either. I figure expecting 1 or 2 emeralds in the nearly 30 minutes he's been out hunting wouldn't have been too hard to come by.

Treasure amount seems to be similar after the change, except it now seems much more difficult to complete gem bounties since a lot of the gems I used to find for them were in boxes and now I'm not finding boxes and the couple I did find last night didn't have any emeralds.

edgy hollow
civic niche
royal epoch
#

That doesn't really solve what you'd want it to solve. Nerfs don't make people happy, and testing them and telling us that you were unhappy with them when we'd still have to implement them in the end is not, I think, productive.

broken vector
royal epoch
#

Box weight got dealt with within less than a day.

royal epoch
arctic aspen
#

I'm using boost loot major, and that appears to have improved my Rift hunting. It's seen a significant decrease in per hunt, or at least on an hourly basis according to ;ledger. I haven't found a new box in multiple hunts, but I am finding an uptick in clothes, but that might seem more significant with the lack of boxes.

frozen tusk
#

Clothes you can sell or chipped brick clothes?

icy fog
#

I don't use alts, and if the 15 hours a week to fill your profession resources is accurate, I'm not going to be affected by the worst of this. I worry this will cause many to rage quit, and the game overall won't be as profitable. I don't think the Cash'lo'nae option is going to be wildly popular. It's a very risky move and I'm just going to keep an open mind. Maybe it's good

north lance
#

So I asked yesterday and with the book worth of post I am sure I missed the answer somewhere. Is it known if resources onky absorb on online exp or offline too?

broken vector
royal epoch
royal epoch
#

That seems high.

#

I wasn't seeing any boxes that had 30k+ in silver in them, which is what that would require.

arctic aspen
#

Clothes I can sell. Some, anyway. There's been at least two that I could not, despite not being raggedy. Pawnshop needs to lower their standards if they're going to pay out less. I think I may have hit loot cap with this change, though. It's a little frustrating, but iirc, economic changes to the game are not made in a vacuum and not entirely only by gamemasters. I seem to remember a discussion about having people, or an individual, who did modeling for this sort of thing as it did impact currencies like PP and the like.

broken vector
split hamlet
frosty gate
#

Even before the loot changes it was possible to find a box with like 40k silvers in them. They were rare but it happened.

royal epoch
valid orbit
#

I'd vote for something that makes the locksmith pool not completely empty of boxes. Maybe peoples scripts don't work with the pool changes? Anyway, killing me here, 0 boxes to pick.

primal creek
frozen tusk
broken vector
# royal epoch They're above the max value of said gems.

my unsung white pearls, uncut rubies, and blue sapphires from last week are all above their max value now? are players just supposed to understand this since we weren't given a list of what changed?

Imagine we all have scripts for handling all this loot and they're now all broken and it's on us to re-investigate what happened and fix our scripts/systems/etc. - doesn't that seem like an unnecessary burden to inflict on players? Like I said last night, it makes me just want to not play until all this is figured out.

arctic aspen
#

It is sad to not find boxes. That's so ingrained in the history of the game; piling up boxes in your pack and dragging them back.

granite tartan
frosty gate
#

Are Adventurer's Guild bounty rewards affected all by the loot cap?

split hamlet
#

Everything is affected. Nothing has been updated yet.

primal creek
broken vector
#

I really don't want to be here complaining instead of playing the game, but like 75% of what I do in the game is broken now, and there are few answers, and I just need to be patient apparently.

frosty gate
granite tartan
# mellow dock I doubt people are going to do a month 's worth of hunting on the test server

It would have taken like 10 minutes for the box/silver/encumbrance issue and the chrism/phase/1004(?) issues to be identified and fixed, and whatever other other side effects that weren't considered during planning that have been mentioned, and what got released on live would have had it all cleaned up from the start instead of...this thread in its current form.

Same goes for the resource thing.

primal creek
tribal relic
#

I'm not logging in til somethings change. For the most part the changes are ok but I'm tired of systems constantly being released or updates for the top 25% of players leaving the normal average players in the dust

granite tartan
# royal epoch That doesn't really solve what you'd want it to solve. Nerfs don't make people h...

So releasing it in its current form and playing whack-a-mole with fixing unforseen issues is the alternative? What's the point of a test server then? If you don't want to test nerfed systems because it's going to make people unhappy, then just can the test server or stop making people unhappy. Simu is barely scraping by as it is, I don't get the point of gambling on making that even worse.

People were fine with the loot cap being lowered. It's everything else that came with it that nobody likes. What was wrong with just reducing the loot cap and leaving it like that, even if as just a starting point, if you're so against using the test server for testing?

broken vector
#

The most significant change in the 2026 workflow is the transition away from "monolithic" updates in favor of incremental releases. By breaking down massive projects into smaller, more manageable phases, the team can deliver content to the players faster and with greater precision.
Wyrom says this^ in Creating Adventure last week and then a week later they release all these changes at once on a Friday night lol

Making these changes a little more incremental wouldn't have broken multiple different workflows/playstyles all at once imo

normal drum
tribal relic
broken vector
#

better to get opinions you don't like than account cancelations/downgrades imo

tribal relic
#

This is gsiv... release then deal with fallout

normal drum
#

These are policy decisions they decided to implement for game longevity. They knew they would get negative feedback. It’s in the very first post. They don’t really care. The things at the margin they will tinker if needed.

royal epoch
broken vector
#

I honestly feel bad for Auchand. He's a really nice guy who has put in a LOT of effort to communicate with us here...but he's attempting to defend the indefensible and doesn't have the answers we want...so he's getting the brunt of the negative feedback.

Meanwhile people I have a LOT of respect for like Wyrom/Estild, who should probably be around the community after MASSIVE changes like this, are basically missing in action when they are needed the most.

split hamlet
#

I think its time to maybe calm down a bit.

sharp turret
#

👍

royal epoch
primal creek
civic niche
jolly palm
# royal epoch I am really struggling, btw, with the refrain that's been going around that peop...

I have some serious sympathy for you on this one.... Your goal is kind of to get people to play the game and enjoy playing the game.

So to see people be in an uproar that they can't gain benefit from not playing the game is kind of wild.

That being said - i do think that resource changes are going to impact more casual players much more aggressively than the non-casual players. This was a very small equalizer for a lot of the population as a way to gain a little economic footing with something they provided.

With Lumnis no longer benefit resource gain.... the heavy grinders (like me) are going to benefit disproportionately.

I'll still hit resources on all my characters, every week. Giving me more footing in the economy as profession resources become a bigger factor with less loot being produced.

The resource gain changes are adding a relatively disruptive factor into what is a massive slate of changes that everyone is trying to digest, and it's probably one of the most sensitive nerves in the population. It may even be more impactful than loot.

arctic aspen
#

I don't think it's entirely fair to say they don't care. Obviously, they do, or at least Auchand does enough to be the wickerman for this discussion. Sweeping changes on this scale in any project are not made lightly. I would suspect there might be pressure from external sources to improve the quality of the game economy, which historically has been problematic for any online game to get under control. The greater control that developers have over markets means they can leverage those markets toward profit which means greater longevity for the game itself. Every change is distressing, especially when it upends how you navigate your gaming experience, but I do not think it is made in malice.

split hamlet
#

Yeah the longer he has to read people berating him the less time he can spend in actually doing anything.

Most of these comments are unnecessary and pointless.

Can we have the 15 minute post timer yet so I dont wake up to thousands of messages.

chilly tulip
# jolly palm I have some serious sympathy for you on this one.... Your goal is kind of to get...

I play a ton but I have 2 accounts, 3 chars per account. The smartest thing for me to do would be to cancel premium and put each character on a basic, and then I'd max resource each week on all of them and gain more exp on all of them too. It makes the character slots on a premium account feel a lot less valuable. I don't want to run 6 accounts, so I'm just going to offload the alts, I guess, and then downgrade to two basics.

abstract fulcrum
granite tartan
# royal epoch I already explained why we did not go that route. Your mileage may vary on my ex...

Ok then, I'm assuming you're referring to this because I don't know what other message you would be referring to unless I missed something:

"...telling us that you were unhappy with them when we'd still have to implement them in the end is not, I think, productive."

In which case...sure, you'll have to implement them anyway, but they can and likely would be implemented "better" based on feedback, i.e. all these whack-a-mole side effects that's going to need to be cleaned up that should have never made it into the live game.

Implementing nerfs efficiently after testing and weeding out side effects = Not bad (outside of the part where nobody likes nerfs in general)

Implementing those same nerfs with 94827390 side effects that were overlooked that player feedback would have nipped in the bud very quickly on test = Bad

If you're referring to another message, then I have no idea which one.

frozen tusk
unkempt ravine
#

I am going to do 1 hunt and see how bad this is for myself. 🤨

broken vector
# jolly palm I have some serious sympathy for you on this one.... Your goal is kind of to get...

So to see people be in an uproar that they can't gain benefit from not playing the game is kind of wild.
I have often spent more time managing my alts and filling their heads for offline exp than I spend playing my mains...and I spent 5 years investing time, resources, and money into those alts...and now they're practically dead to me with no explanation. I wouldn't say I'm in an uproar but I'm pretty annoyed...mostly at the lack of communication.

sleek meadow
royal epoch
#

I do want to be clear that I don't think your playstyle is invalid, etc. I just am baffled by it because it's foreign to my experience.

tribal relic
royal epoch
sharp turret
arctic aspen
#

My one complaint is a lack of boxes. 🙁 Boxes seem to be so central to my DR/GS experience over 30 years, that it's difficult not to think that there is something wrong with this. Hunting should be about finding loot, good or bad, so that it feels more about successfully raiding a dungeon. Have mercy

dusky kernel
jolly palm
# broken vector `So to see people be in an uproar that they can't gain benefit from not playing ...

But you have to sympathize with his plight here, right? They want people playing the game. Not gaming the system to minimize their playing time and still yield maximized results against the economy and population in game

Yes, you built a lot of time out to maximize the benefit across a lot of alts/resources.... but it was done to minimize your time in game and maximize your output.

That's kind of against the spirit of a shared economy for everyone. (and shared game environment)

As someone who MA's in a big way..... Every change over the last 60 days has definitely been geared to slow down my advantage by MA'ing.... but I also understand the why for it and have the self awareness to say, yeah.... that makes sense and probably creates a healthier environment for the game

sturdy ridge
#

One of the prime reasons I upgraded my lumnis brooch to increase my bucket (Planar) was to fill it up and log off and get my resources the next day

frosty gate
granite tartan
abstract fulcrum
#

You know what this needs…a team of reasonable players from all experiences and professions to be a sounding board for such widespread changes like this. Not GMs, just a council of sorts to bounce ideas off of.

broken vector
civic niche
#

So glad I did't buy my DR simucoins last week when I thought about it.

granite tartan
light ferry
#

On a meta note. It is interesting to see the more modern take on development. I think it'll take some time for us to get used to the "Put something out, monitor it, and tweak it as needed". I'm guessing more than a few of us are in the mindset that tweaks are rare and take awhile to be released. Definitely nice to already see a number of updates since it dropped yesterday. ofc, we have the bumpy fun of dealing with all the other systems gem values touch and waiting to get those pieces updated to handle the drop in values.

broken vector
# jolly palm But you have to sympathize with his plight here, right? They want people playing...

We have long discussed the problem with MA...but when before have they said they need to kill resource alts? We have discussed the many issues created for other players due to MA groups...but where have we discussed the problems created by resource alts? I'm not clear on what those are and what the goal is here..

Meanwhile I have provided suggestions for making people "play the game" while also not killing resource alts, so I'm not totally against making changes here...but again they didn't just make it worse, they NUKED it. I used to get 38k resource per week on my alts, now with the current system that's going to be like 700 resource per week lol.

wintry shard
dusky kernel
primal creek
fast cipher
#

Since I've been back I think a lot more has gotten done with this new approach of release and correct rather than sitting around looking at google doc and arguing for months. Maybe there's a middle ground but for me personally I've been pretty happy with the pace of releases and the willingness to correct afterward.

normal drum
#

They already considered these things, recognized it will cause some ire among players and have just accepted that as the cost of implementation.

Auchand, is there really any point to providing feedback at this point?

image0.jpg
sleek meadow
broken vector
rich delta
#

Question on the box pool, and perhaps it's been answered. The flat rate and the additional fee, do they both go to the picker? Or just the flat rate goes to the picker, and the additional fee is a kind of silver reduction?

dusky kernel
#

if Auchand (and again sorry just using you because you are here, not any sort of accusation etc) didn't consider offline resource-ing (whatever you wanna call it) as a thing that people did.. then that begs the question, did anyone?

valid orbit
#

sitting here at locksmith pool, you really get a good idea who the afk scripters are with a change like this 🙂 in and out, in and out, in and out.

arctic aspen
#

I'm just in denial okay 🙁

tribal relic
dusky kernel
sturdy ridge
#

I would like to see all the silver go to the locksmith. It's 100 percent the reason I stopped using the NPC

north lance
#

I do want to call out @royal epoch is taking his time to engage in this thread. Thank you. It hard to be the "face" of a major change even if he didnt do the bulk of the choices. Thank you for the engagement and thank you for trying to answer as you can

rich delta
#

Thanks Duff. Man, that's a hefty tithe

broken vector
sturdy ridge
valid orbit
granite tartan
royal epoch
twilit rock
#

Has anyone tested OSA and how long it would take to recover cost of launching/stocking ships? With and without loot boosts?

broken vector
dusky kernel
raw pike
#

I hope they hear our feedback.

It’s only been 18 hours since the changes were released. It’s also a long weekend. Im mindful of that.

I expect to hear something from the Wyrom or another PM on Tuesday.

Personally I like the experience changes. Not a fan of some of the other changes.
I’ll give myself a few weeks and determine what next steps are for me.

broken vector
# royal epoch Yes, or it would not have been in scope.

I'm still curious how a massive change to resource generation was in the scope but not mentioned at all in Creating Adventure last week...and even more surprising/disappointing was that the offline exp part wasn't even mentioned in the announcement.

granite tartan
mellow dock
frozen tusk
#

I would have thought that envoys were supposed to be the "sounding board" or "gut check" for these types of things but we only have 1 currently to my knowledge.

unkempt ravine
#

it's slowed by half - professional resource gain. After this length of a hunt, on x3 lumnis and I have an indigo orb going I should have over 1400 points already I have 650.. it's more than half really. Are the orbs making any difference?

dusky kernel
royal epoch
#

Sure thing. I may not have been involved in every little change, but I still endorse them and hope everyone understands why.

primal creek
sharp turret
rich delta
raw pike
supple yoke
broken vector
unkempt ravine
fading flare
#

Well, the easiest way is either to return resource gain to what it was before or to allow off-line absorption again with the current system. Also make it the 100 per pulse that the original announcement had.

Based on my limited testing, off-line absorption is simply one pulse now = 50.

Offline absorption could simply be a flat rate. Amount of experience equals X resource the same as before.

However, I quite dislike that the new 50 per pulse makes it basically like not even having lumnis and there’s no way to speed it up.

granite tartan
frosty gate
#

With an Innate Focus gemstone it's just a mere 11.25 hours a week.

Unless this change made it a hard cap of 50 resources per pulse no matter what, in which case this prop became 100% useless, instead of the previous 95% useless.

primal creek
frozen tusk
dire rivet
#

As a more "casual player" with one service main (cleric) and no service alts, adding my two cents that I also don't like the offline resource change. Most of my absorption is done offline, I don't love the push to make me stay logged in and afk just for profession points. I understand the new Lumnis tiers would warp the exp-based approach and make profession points way too easy. My suggestion is a hybrid approach: profession point gains of 50% of exp absorbed, or 50 points per online pulse, whichever is greater. By my math, at 50% exp a character would have to get through almost the entire enhanced Lumnis pool (roughly 12 hours online, minus whatever you can absorb offline) to reach 50k resource. At 50 per pulse it's the ~15 hour current design.

remote egret
civic niche
granite tartan
normal drum
#

I will say, once I freed myself of the grind mindset that I had to try to get three gemstones a month, that freed me from needing to play a lot, which has reduced my play time to about 2 hours over the last 2 months. My credit card expired on one of my accounts and I haven’t resubbed it yet. I imagine the resources changes will help free me more from the tyranny of my own completionist mindset.

royal epoch
sturdy ridge
#

This reminds me of when ensorcelling was first released and I could get my full resource gain in a half an hour or one full war camp due to all the necromancy ranks

fading flare
#

So far, the resource gain, especially off-line, is by far the biggest pain point people have

unkempt ravine
#

is critter generation affected? They seem way slower

flint flame
#

I think it is quite possible they didn't really think through how the resource change would affect most people, which is fine, they can make tweaks now that they do. However, IF they did actually consider it seriously, my "conspiracy theory" is that it was probably a bone to throw at that the MAers who play the most in a given week, because while they're most affected by a loot cap, they stand to lose the least by the resource change and potentially benefit if resources become more valuable, and mostly it's a psychological thing because it still gives them an edge of sorts when earning silvers. It's relative gratification.

open silo
granite tartan
valid orbit
#

Could it have been as simple as, we are making experience gains go up, but we don't necessarily want to make resource gains go up, so we need to make a change to resource gains to try to make them the same, meaning not 1:1 with exp... and they missed the significant impact on offline resource absorption? Some of these side effects might not be deliberate and we can wait for a response.

primal creek
mellow dock
frosty gate
#

Simple solution: pay 100k per week to double your resource gain rate, 300k to triple it. More silver drains!

Maybe the in game Gods will give people a 2 for 1 special: get more Lumnis AND more resource gain for the low, low price of just 350k silver a week.

dusky kernel
#

I play my alts, I enjoy them as a treat. And in seeing which ones I actually enjoyed playing and which ones felt like chores, is how I actually at least rudimentally played other professions besides warrior in 3 decades. So to say "play by not playing my characters" is reductive.

Without any more information from simu, it sounds like someone said "we have too many player services, theyre too cheap, we need players to spend more silvers on player services." We want to at least know what the conversation was before we can really engage with it

fading flare
open silo
#

Listen, the only people not worried about the resource thing are people who it doesn't need to effect. Either they have one main character who easily gets their resources or they have nothing else to do all day. No one it effects is happy with it at all.

civic niche
granite tartan
unkempt ravine
#

This is awful.. I should have significantly more by now - this is how long I take for a hunt, then I go do real life stuff..

raw pike
amber osprey
mellow dock
safe epoch
# fading flare So far, the resource gain, especially off-line, is by far the biggest pain point...

Frankly.... with things like group gemstone looting being talked about and no follow-up and things like resource gain throttle being implemented from the blindside.. I have to make a personal decision on whether I want to keep playing a game at the rates I've been playing when I feel like the rug keeps getting yanked. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but changes like this should have a carrot. All I've experienced in the last year have been taking things away with a shrug saying "it's for the best."

I'm getting tired of watching players try to advocate for the game they've been playing and receive reply's that sound like when my parents used to say "because we said so" instead of any real rationale or reason that might help us agree.

As Auchand has pointed out, this isn't a democracy. True. This is a completely optional play experience with a lot of alternatives. GMs making unilateral unannounced and unreasoned (or at least unarticulated) changes impact the experience.

jolly palm
# fading flare Well, the easiest way is either to return resource gain to what it was before or...

With the number of changes made.... i'd honestly just revert resource gains completely.... dont do the 100 per pulse, etc....

Make the loot & exp changes... assess, then determine if profession resources need adjusted at all.

When everything changes at once, it makes it realllllly hard to determine what the impacts are to the population and if the intended effects occurred.

This also kind of goes against the spirit of Wyrom saying "continuous gradual change, instead of massive sweeping reform"

---- Added: I'm not saying the resource piece is right or wrong... but when you pull 3 MAJOR levers (Exp, loot, resources ---- all with multiple sub levers), it's hard to tell the impact of any of them individually

granite tartan
thorn mantle
royal epoch
#

With the resource piece, my understanding of the reasoning was that many of the multipliers and such that have come into play artificially abbreviated the amount of time required to hit resource cap. Because of how powerful resource-based services are, they are supposed to be something that is a reward for time invested, and it started getting trivial. Probably a good example of this is the offline resource alt economy.

cold zephyr
# ashen carbon I played on my paladin off and on for about 2 hours tonight. I gained about 15k...

This reminds me of when enchanting was changed around and energy gained was based on creature lvl compared to caster and the amount of mana it took to kill the creature and essence was only earned per pulse. It was an okay way to do it, but then came along 735 and sorcerers could just tear through building up their energy and wizards were left standing there with their you know what in their hand. A properly trained sorcerer at the time could earn their max necro juice in about 6/7 hours whereas a wizard that was able to maximize their enchanting energy took 3 times as long. Eventually things all changed over to the resource system we've been using the past handful of years and the playing field was leveled out for everyone, but now it seems to feel a step back and the slower version of wizard enchanting energy gaining was applied to everyone and that's no bueno.

void cedar
#

I would argue strenuously against the "triviality" of it

safe epoch
frozen tusk
#

I imagine the offline resource alt economy probably helps the FOMO of duskruin when folks pick up new items. Gonna sell less +500 pots

mellow dock
# jolly palm With the number of changes made.... i'd honestly just revert resource gains comp...

If people are getting 5x during gift now though, resource gain gets a massive boost. I don't think they can leave resource gain untouched. What I would prefer to see is moving down to 10-11 hours, but also I don't have the data they do. I'm guessing part of their concern is that the 5x will encourage people to play certain characters less, and that's not what a product owner generally likes to see

thorn mantle
#

Hot take: I don’t mind removing offline resource gain. But I also think your average person should be able to easily fill their 50k for the week. The time constraint is not the time it takes to earn the 50k. The time constraint is the weeks it takes to get to be able to cast your project. From what you are saying about time constraint. The real culprit is the offline absorption. Not real time play.

open silo
#

I am watching my mage whose lumnis kicked in last night...he was on 5 hrs last night post-lumnis and so far an hr and a half today. He has 9600 essence...6.5 hrs. I don't have 35 hrs for every character per week. I'm hearing you can do it in like 15 hrs (which is supposedly from 8), but since it's not tied to exp absorbtion it must mean he needs to hunt constantly for the hrs to get the essence. It sucks in it's current state and needs to change back toward being better. Period.

split jacinth
#

Would it be considered to trivialize the 50k resource gained. Then set max resource accumulations to 75K where the last 25k are available to players who have time to play to get the final 25K resource. I am not super big into player services but just a thought.

unkempt ravine
#

typical look reduced by at least half - tho it seems like more

jolly palm
dusky kernel
# royal epoch With the resource piece, my understanding of the reasoning was that many of the ...

alright so if that is the reasoning (and again it would be better to hear it from someone who was more involved with this portion, dont want to shoot the messenger or make you have to be the one to argue all the arguments), how did it never come up beforehand in any conversation?

Were getting hit from both ends already, as all the new services have charges.. so combine that, with resources being harder to get, and loot cap coming sooner, and gemstones 2 and 3 being painful, why is anyone going to want to do anything in the last two weeks of the month if theyve already hit loot cap, hunting for gemstones makes them sad, and the only reason is because they are forced to be online to build up resources for services that people dont have silver to pay and are now just rejecting outright?

granite tartan
frosty gate
#

Make resource gain based on how much resources the character has earned that week.

0-10,000: 200 per pulse
10,001-20,000: 150 per pulse
20,001-30,000: 100 per pulse
30,001+: 50 per pulse

That way people who only have limited time to play can still get 20-30k easily per week and the last 20k is still tough to get.

sturdy ridge
# royal epoch With the resource piece, my understanding of the reasoning was that many of the ...

I Invest what I consider a significant portion of what little free time I have to be a casual player and get my 50k resource on one character.
This is a lot more time than when it was released as 500-1000 kills per week for ensorcelling resources and even that was considered significant.
I found that I could do some of it in offline gain and barely make that work on one character under the system last week, with many weeks having 1k to go and 1 hour before lumnis resets.
This is for a person with a lot on their plate and a laptop I don't leave logged in overnight so my 1-2 hours a day are a huge portion of my time resources.

royal epoch
#

I think we are sympathetic to some of the resource arguments and we'll probably make some edits to it once we work through that process.

arctic aspen
#

Dragonrealms has a timegated scale for their login experience buff. I believe Premium accounts receive 6 hours of the equivalent of an RPA, while basic receive 4. But it only refreshes upon login assuming you were not gaining experience for..8 hours total, IG or out of it. I could see something akin to this being useful for helping players mitigate the amount of time that they feel pressured to be in game if there were a bonus applied to in game accruement on a similar sliding scale. I think there is something to be said about providing a compromise in genuine respect of a person's time in the real world, and that to have a schedule to keep for a game that should serve as downtime is only detrimental in the long run. It's easy to fall into resentment at being asked to give up however many dozens? hundreds? of hours over the course of a year to meet a quota. It is very important for players to have an alternative to engaging in the game's economy that is marginally separate from purely earning an income from hunting, and only hunting. 🤷

half sable
royal epoch
jolly palm
dusky kernel
royal epoch
#

We rarely draw a line in the sand where no discussion can happen and a change is just set in stone as-is.

fierce lantern
mellow dock
#

also big thanks to @royal epoch for dealing with all of the heat here, especially on systems he had nothing to do with

royal epoch
#

"Nothing to do with" is also an overstatement.

safe epoch
#

the new silver valuation is change enough to make resource gain more precious... Auchand said himself that the services would get more expensive and he's right. There is really no need to change absorption unless and until they see if the silver and loot changes don't already accomplish their goals?

fast cipher
# thorn mantle Hot take: I don’t mind removing offline resource gain. But I also think your a...

I had similar thoughts that they should untether it from Lumnis if they don't want it speed ran especially with the new 4 and 5x and remove offline but make it a bucket that encourages you to be online that would equal the old lumnis is ~6 hours of play time for the first 36k then you can shift to whatever timeline for the rest. Maybe easier said than done or equally as anger inducing but I think encouraging active playtime for resources isn't a bad thing.

thorn mantle
open silo
unkempt ravine
royal epoch
#

I do want people to remember that all of the Devs play with at least some regularity.

fierce lantern
amber osprey
royal epoch
#

I am also going to have to suffer through loot cap. I do enchant (now that Gyres forced me to start using my resources.)

fierce lantern
#

Gyres claimed your enchanting resources before I could bully you into enchanting for me?

mellow dock
tribal relic
royal epoch
#

Gyres is always first in my heart, but I do have resources to spare because I don't sell my enchants.

safe epoch
sleek meadow
#

Resources are still capped at 50k a week. But now it will take me two full work days to get there…all online. As a semi casual who plays mostly between work tasks that’s about the max I could do in a week and still unlikely. I almost never got to 50k any week in the last 6 months and also never sell my services…I do trade or give them to friends. Looking at this it seems like it rewards MArs or those who just pop up bigshot and read a book. Bit someone who pops on to play for an hour or two and does any RP etc it will penalize which seems like the opposite of a change that benefits the longevity of the games. Just my take.

unkempt ravine
#

so if I am right - to get resources at a faster rate I have to cough up more IRL money? And I have to sit on a node and waste my spells to get the full benefit of a hunt? Wait it's 250k silvers for the x5 gift?

royal epoch
broken vector
dusky kernel
royal epoch
#

As I said, I think "I quit" gets overused. (Note that I did not say that it's insincere.) I can't stop a player from quitting over an early-stage change.

Logical, well-stated arguments are infinitely more effective.

#

They give us something we can work from.

mossy forge
#

I'm not quitting, just I don't see a reason to have an alt in the manner that I play.

unkempt ravine
#

I play when I can at work and when I can on weekends, for events I take time off if I can this is too much - at this rate I won't ever make my weekly resource. I simply cannot play that much so it will always run short. 250k silver for a x5 gift that starts AFTER lumnis? If I read that right - is not a benefit if you don't have the time to blow through lumnis first!!!

royal epoch
#

So any time that we can get that thorough, considered feedback, we are far more likely to be able to respond and make edits.

half sable
fierce lantern
#

As to not mess with the lumnis cycle in progress

valid orbit
#

50k resource was pretty easy to hit with regular daily and subjectively reasonable play time. I would almost have called it trivial... I dont think there is a problem with it becoming more trivial. I would agree that just keeping it 1:1 with EXP and leaving it at 50k cap would be a fine place to be. Then see how that goes. Like what Kontii said i think.

chilly berry
slate edge
#

anything been said about bounty gem drop rate? The drop rate seems a lot lower for bounty gem you're assigned.

unkempt ravine
# half sable It starts before

It starts before lumnis? I need the right details. So this lumnis I am in is a waste until it's over. Then the next one the x5 if I spend 250k to get it? will make resource getting faster?

jolly palm
#

I do think Champion's Auchandeosis was a good example of taking feedback and making updates to balance to the appropriate level.

I'm hopeful that this will play out similarly.

mellow dock
arctic aspen
#

If you didn't pay the 250k before you started gaining experience, you will not receive the 5x modifier. That will roll over to your next one.

void cedar
orchid dawn
#

it really bad right now that if you hit 15m before the change the game is so uninteresting and imposable to do gem bounties and get good skin bounty points.

frozen tusk
#

Skin values and gem values

It has long been a known thing that skin values tank at the adventure guild as you enter soft loot cap and you get less than 100 bounty points at hard cap.

With the updates yesterday, this now impacts gem bounties as well.

Again, this issue has been ignored for years in regard to skin bounties.

devout bobcat
unkempt ravine
fierce lantern
raw pike
chilly berry
jolly palm
#

Slightly related ----

24 lbs of gold ingots = 8k silvers.... Does that feel right? Feels heavy to me.

Anyone have any data on how much silvers normally weigh?

mellow dock
fierce lantern
arctic aspen
#

Is there a way to check if you hit cap?

orchid dawn
open silo
dusky kernel
unkempt ravine
rugged jackal
#

Im still confused how these changes fix any issues. I also dont understand how lootcap fixes any issues. Why does it matter? I have yet to see any answers? Was this address before? Someone share a link.

frosty gate
orchid dawn
#

I got 15m to give back to reset my lootcap so i can find treasure again please