Post-Auction Silver Generation Musings

[grave bison]

There is always a bigger fish.

[lavish geyser]

They're like veal. Just need the guillotine to ensure halal/kosher.

[winged valve]

https://tenor.com/view/queen-of-hearts-alice-in-wonderland-off-with-their-heads-disney-gif-22345329

[pale ether]

I'd like to purchase a third-eye locus that has its own slot and allows players to purchase upgrades for mind capacity, on node absorb, off node absorb for silvers with a scaling cost.

Requires a flat million silvers per month to charge it.

[neon cave]

thinking to small.... 1m silvers per day to charge it

[tardy ore]

Need to be able to upgrade it to make it an aoe node. 500m silver.

[pale ether]

I didn't want to price out casuals, the upgrade fees would reach whale territory pretty quick

[tardy ore]

But touch on all the exp stuff, playing Gemstone Classic exp-wise feels preeeeeeeeeetty awful. We shouldn't make people do that anymore in 2025.

[barren berry]

We all can't have your amazing mind.

[scenic flower]

And any upgrade fees will likely be like the lottery and just be a crowd funded poor tax while the 1%ers just reap the benefits

[nova sun]

I wouldn't wish that misfortune on anyone.

[analog hinge]

I don’t think I realized the name of this place changed. Hah

[daring narwhal]

it had to

i just come here to rot my brain between hype train posts

[tawny pivot]

The excruciating wait!

[pale ether]

Might as well rename it to Nyxus's One Man Auction

[tawny pivot]

The more items I see that I don't want, the more excited I get knowing that people will be spending on those instead of whatever I do want.

Then again, the more items I see that I want, the more excited I get knowing that I want them. So, uh. Win-win? But so far the three teasers have been things that others will be buying!

[nova sun]

I would like to know what you all would like to see.

I haven't put my items in there.

[old dock]

airship?

[low lynx]

the key to SG

[nova sun]

The key to SG is to git gud. That will be 1 billion silver.

[low lynx]

already paid that tax

now i need teleportation to and from anywhere and permission to use the throne 😁

[wet forge]

WHAT HAPPENED IN HERE?!!

[low lynx]

you know what 😁

[old dock]

auchand volunteer to make a customize item for auction

[daring narwhal]

Dads home, scatter!

[compact tinsel]

• Ring of Power (buyer gets to pick - no blessing lore or transformation, since they already exist, but could be any other LORE based or Flare Affinity)
• Temporal Hand Xbow
• Temporal Dagger
• Temporal Runestaff
• Temporal Shortsword
• Temporal Backsword
• alllllll the temporals
• Legendary Deepening (500 lbs)
• Greater Transmute
• Belt of Kai
• Some kind of special Man-O-War -Really no idea what to do with this, I just feel like some people might pay a lot for a special ship of some kind. Especially with SG released
• An Airship for 5 minute quick travel around the world. Can carry up to (TBD) people.
• Voucher for a Completed Weapon: Perfect Forged, 10x, S6, T5, 10 CER of crit or damage, Material, Script, Flare and Flourish of the Buyers Choice -NO +TD, Tiered Flares/Flourishes will come at base level
• Voucher for a Completed Armor: 10x, S6, T5, 10 Cer of crit or damage, 3 resistances at 30%, Material, Script, Flare and Flourish of the Buyers Choice. NO +TD, Tiered Flares/Flourishes will come at base level
• Voucher for a Completed Shield: 10x, S6, T5, 3 resistances at 20%, Material, Script, Flare and Flourish of the Buyers Choice. NO +TD, Tiered Flares/Flourishes will come at base level
• 400 WPS services to an item
• Coin Hand
• Empath Tattoo
• Greater Enchant (Might be less in demand since it just made an appearance at HESS)
• 7 Gem Ring
• 80% WR add
• SM Item converted to SK Tattoo
• 10x DB item
• Completed zelnorn accessory (see how high the bids can go!)
• Maxed Tier MK Item, no limitations
• +50 Spellbook
• Sword Hymn Acorn Amulet (has a faerie inside that is a little companion and sings the sword hymn, keeping it active whatever room you're in)
• Frostling Amulet - immunity to Cold effects in the wilds
• Charl Amulet - immunity to water effects (tidal waves, shocked in water, etc...should be good for SG, nelemar, Atoll, right?)
• Astral Spark Amulet - immunity to shock traps in the hive (or whatever they are.... i dont really go there)
• Build your own gemstone (leg/rare/com)
• Super charger - higher frequency, lower duration (5 minutes, 12x per day)
• Super charger - Highest frequency, lowest duration (3 minutes, 20x per day)
• Super charger - lower frequency, higher duration (30 minutes, twice per day)
• A couple Private Properties
• Auction quality Briar Accessory -- allows you to use an accessory to get the briar AS Boost with whatever weapon you're using, not just to store blood`
• a big chunk of Scholars Cards
• Wandolier - Buyer's choice on offensive spell
• crate whistle!
• 15x acuity
• 10x to 15x enchant
• a set of three 40% resists to an armor
• Script combiner
• GUB cert!
• Bane Swap Cert!

[nova sun]

Nice. Thanks for putting in the effort!

[odd badger]

I feel very under prepared.

[barren berry]

Crate whistle was missing.

[compact estuary]

Very nice list

[barren berry]

Sk 506/515, sk920 custom, price matches

[winged valve]

https://tenor.com/view/aladdin-genie-no-way-no-absolutely-not-gif-25377939

(this was in reference to what Aladdin said right before that. Genie: “I want the Nile, say ‘I wish for the nile’” Aladdin: “I wish for the Nile?” Genie: NO WAY!)

[odd badger]

I am curious to see if there's any special gemstone stuff!

[full zenith]

80% WR add``` Sir, your supposed to offer 100% and let them negotiate it down to 80% your coming at this all wrong

[compact tinsel]

I'm ashamed I did not consider that. Back to my negotations classes (hangs head and walks away)

[barren berry]

I also think those custom rooms for the room charm trinket went over well? Maybe somethings like that?

15x acuity is missing Kontii

[compact tinsel]

Added:
15x acuity
10x to 15x enchant
A Set of 3 - 40% resists to a set of armor

[upbeat fossil]

Just in case you hadn’t seen it, we’ve been spitballing ideas for a good part of 2025 here:

https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1330304532160315392

[barren berry]

Extra spicy 2nd legendary gem slot....

I dare say it...GUB cert

[compact tinsel]

Ooooh, added that - GUB Cert, Bane Swap Cert
Also added a script combiner 🤤 - how did i not think of that before.

This is easily my favorite game 😆

[full zenith]

alright time to rename the thread again

[safe urchin]

I cast Artifact Reborn

restore an old item/script lost to the abyss of time, updating for current technology to restore Thailor's Eye, etc

[low lynx]

we got derailed, rerailed and derailed from our railment

[barren berry]

Thaliors stuff is still around

[teal hearth]

So is my lantern, no need to duplicate pieces of history =p

[barren berry]

It just sold recently I belive.

[low lynx]

man o war as fast as a sloop and unbreakable armor

[tardy ore]

Empath tattoos shouldn’t be released again until they’re updated/fixed.

Unless you just update the script to not require herbs across the board.

[tawny pivot]

#1330304532160315392 message
I stand by most of the stuff I said here:

Alter boxes, alter wands, custom illusion props, custom postname titles, custom prename titles, custom spell prep props, fire gowns, and fixprofessions.

I've also reviewed past silver auctions back to 2020 (so far) and I'd plausibly buy these things if they appeared again at 50-150% of the price (depending on the item) they went for at the times:

Ice gowns, custom Confection Creator recipes, auction quality nail press, gem chisel, Dhu kittens.

Also also:

I'd buy just about anything that's offered at Duskruin and goes for enormous discounts at silver auctions, but I'm guessing that staff has... learned from 2023 in particular. 👀 But even in that regard, one area I think could stand some trial and error is offering unusual SKs or MKs that nobody buys at DR and seeing where they land.

Like I don't think there's much reason to offer SK 506 and SK 515 when they're already at DR (albeit in tattoo form) and people already pay. But I doubt that people have been buying, say, SK 203--just to name one that I'd look into during a silver auction, but won't even entertain at 300k bloodscrip. Or put in something obscure and niche like MK Acrobat's Leap and see if anybody goes for it. MK Shield Throw and see if the rangers want it, MK Shield Swiftness and see if the paladins or rangers want it, etc.

[spiral scaffold]

I have no silver so I'll think small. How about custom cman messaging where the "well ackshually" qc fun police sit this one out.

[tawny pivot]

Oh, custom maneuver messaging, great call. Backing that one.
Edit: But I wouldn't describe it as a thinking small idea. That would go for a lot, especially with your no-QC stipulation. 😄 Even without, custom maneuver messaging is new enough that I'd imagine 100m wouldn't be hard to swing at all.

[barren berry]

Full feature alter maybe? With some lattitudes.

[teal hearth]

I'd probably go for a custom spell prep or custom spirit servant over a mechanical item from the auction to be honest. They're kind of more rare than mechanical things these days it seems like.

[atomic blade]

I'd love to see an EZ script package with a different QC ruleset. IE - one where magicky effects are allowed.

[tawny pivot]

Oh, here's a silver drain idea: custom Gemstone property.

[old dock]

arcane will with 8x potency kthxbai

[upbeat fossil]

So, ummm, you can make it do whatever you want? I’ll take +1,000 AS and +1,000 DS please!

[tawny pivot]

I'm assuming it would work like the 2016 design-your-own-scripted-item win where there would be limitations. 😛

[tardy ore]

10x RoL brooches.

[tawny pivot]

Now I have visions of someone designing a custom Gemstone property that works like an RoL brooch.

[tardy ore]

I mean auction one but lol

[upbeat fossil]

Ohhhhh. Nyxus will like this one. A counterfeit RoL brooch!

[tawny pivot]

Yeah, I know, but--oh man, Idalias might be on to something too. 😂

[compact estuary]

Wait is that when the gloves were made?

[tawny pivot]

I don't know. Calael made some crazy thing, I'm sure.

The winner of this item will be given the opportunity to work with GameMaster Finros to design a custom scripted item that is of auction quality. Finros is the sole authority over what is considered acceptable, but will do his utmost to be liberal in interpretation. If agreement cannot be reached, a refund will be granted. The item is guaranteed unique for at least three years and possible longer. Contact GM Finros by January 15, 2017, to begin designing the item (Teaser) Unique 650,000,000 Calael Gold

[frosty isle]

more like 3 years later

[upbeat fossil]

The tinkerer who designed this brooch accidentally made a mistake, and all of the rubs reduce your experience rather than add to it!

[tawny pivot]

Brooch of Fash'lo'nae: every orb is chaos, sort of, because you're forbidden to have the knowledge of what it'll do next time you rub it.

The Oamirbane Ring: works like the Lore Flares rings except instead of extra Lore Flares, it's extra Skullcrusher Flares!

[full zenith]

hah and here i thought you'd go for +20 levels of your skullcrusher

[tawny pivot]

The whales would make that argument for me after buying it and realizing it doesn't hit the wyrm or some of the higher end Sailor's Grief creatures. 👀 I'd hope to get brought up by the rising tide.

[daring narwhal]

i'm after a lower duration, higher use supercharger, as i've mentioned to nyx a few times already! It's on @compact tinsel 's list in fact, a list which does a good job of hitting a ton of the known, cool stuff we could ask for/expect i think.

in addition - if you are looking for wild off the wall ideas, i'll just throw out a few things with no real consideration for dev time, practicality or balance:

• titan's grip wearable: lets you dual wield two handed weapons(cuz it was awesome in diablo 2)
• enhancive battery: as long as it is charged, all your worn enhancives are charged (playing slot management is enough for me, having to keep them all charged is so painfully tedious)
• temporal armor and/or shields (i love temporals!)
• double strike flourish add or wearable (give me double strikes on my weapon plz!)
• kroderine heart wearable: buffs Kroderine Soul while worn (absorb magic lasts longer and can absorb more spells before it falls off, or+X% to all redux, or something else cool?)

[pale ether]

I want an exclusive elite ascension skill that allows my empath to 2x train blunt weapons and gain access to weapon skills.

[grave bison]

I like the enhancive battery idea.

[grave bison]

All of the following permanently charged:
Unlimited 1117 item.
Unlimited 1720 item.
SK 1617.
SK 1213.
SK 1130.
SK 1417 with +200 ranks of ML:Transference lore ranks.
Cross-realm SK 225.
SK 1435.

New Blink+ Script that only accepts Bard spells.
Meditation Chimes.

Mobile pawnshop mount.
Mobile gemshop mount.
Mobile locksmithpool mount.
Mobile familyvault mount.

Build-a-castle. Complete property reconstruction, up to the maximum possible rooms (10-15), scripts, food, shrine, workshop, forge, crafting whatever.

SK DFRedux.
SK MagicRedux.
+5 AsG undershirt (Permanent maximum Metamorphic Shield, not a flare.)

HinterBoots - You do not get cold, you do not slip on ice, you can ignore spell sever, permanent wildfire oil effect, you will not be eaten by ooze, you swallow an anomaly and it provides +AS/CS/DS/TD.

a giant statue:

put small statue in giant statue
The giant statue swallows the small statue!
look giant statue
The giant statue has 5 charges available.
put small statue in giant statue
The giant statue swallows the small statue!
look giant statue
The giant statue has 10 charges available.
Stores up to 9999 charges.

a skeleton key:
Disarms and Unlocks any box, unlimited use.

a tiny sledgehammer - Breaks Hive rocks with 0 RT.

a miniature bank vault - Stores up to 100k silvers weightlessly. Once it reaches 100k silvers, the silvers are automatically converted to a bank note of the local currency and stored in the vault.

a delicate crystal harp - Nicknamed Peace and Harmony, when played, it activates spells 1011 and 1018, the sanctuary may not be dispelled, the song of power will never corrupt.

a sybil whistle - Once per week, opens a portal to the Sybil lair. This enhanced sybil will guarantee a gemstone drop if killed.

a bounty boost ticket - May be redeemed daily to add +50 bounty boosts.

[grave bison]

a jewelry box:
>turn box
You turn a dial on the jewelry box and see the image of a bracelet.
>turn box
You turn a dial on the jewelry box and see the image of a ring.

>place enhancive in box
>place other enhancive in box
>close box
>rub box

Once per week, combines two enhancive items into a single enhancive item in the jewelry location selected.

an aranthium box

Once per day, recharges/adds 10 charges to any enhancive.

an urnon box

Portable Sylinar, once per week use.
(Swap enhancive to other enhancive)

[grave bison]

a shrine key

When raised, once per week it teleports the user to a unique room/shrine that adds +500 sanctifying skill to the cleric present.  (attuned)

a workshop key

Same thing, but for wizards.

a summoning chamber key

Same thing, but for sorcerers.

[grave bison]

a keen third-eye

Grants innate knowledge of Keen Eye at Rank 5.

A waylayer tattoo

Attacks have a chance to flare and do damage as if it were a waylay attack with maximum training.

a facemask

Bard songs no longer require renewal.  They are permanently active.  They will no longer pull the wearer from hiding.

.

.

[obtuse trail]

Do I have to change the thread title again again 😭

[grave bison]

Please name it, Everything is on topic

[sour drift]

So uh, where is the auction forum?

[obtuse trail]

#1330304532160315392 for item requests
#1447361071147909262 for auction details
#1446983942644301936 for HYYYPE

[compact tinsel]

In our defense - Auchand set us up there, asking what we wanted to see 😬

[grave bison]

Plus this one only has a 30s cooldown, the other one has a minute wait!

Someone add a SILVER LIST ALL before the auction so we can scope out the competition.

[obtuse trail]

There are 8 people in right now on a Tuesday morning with over a billion silvers

36 with 100,000,000 or more out of the 289 logged in

[grave bison]

Who is it!

[obtuse trail]

Yes, it's some of those

There's plenty of people who are coming to party, including people who don't stalk every thread. So when it feels like I am being a stickler for posting things where most people will look for them, it's for that transparency

[neon cave]

Curious if that counts coin hands, notes stored away in locker/containers, or is it just BANK account balanaces?

[obtuse trail]

It does count more than bank accounts but I won't say what! People try to hide money

[grave bison]

I will be hiding money if the tax man comes to take it away.

As the Architect said: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept.

[rich imp]

I definitely should have saved some silvers. I spend everything I make.

[grave bison]

Most of the silvers I have came from selling things I was no longer using. I would spend them if there were things I wanted/needed.

[tardy ore]

It's honestly better to spend it on things you use and want then to hoard it in the hopes that something good will come along. (This coming from someone who is part of the silver hoarding problem, albeit lower end).

[restive raft]

I have no idea how far scrolled up I am at the moment, but.... If people are going to cap faster, then we need a lot more capacity in capped and asc hunting areas than we have now.

Wow, I was so scrolled up we got back on the original topic.... LOL

[neon cave]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-the-circle-of-lifei-b99-q-hindi-kulfy-gif-11331041475612644080

[lavish geyser]

Sure, absolutely. That is what one might call, "a solvable problem," though. 🙂

[restive raft]

Of course, just something that would need to be addressed simultaneously so it doesn't create a disaster in the existing grounds.

[tacit hinge]

I'm probably alone in this and maybe it's because I've already capped, however, I enjoy the low, mid range with my other characters. I think all levels should have areas where they can earn $$ silvers too, I disagree with the idea that only the higher levels characters should reap the loot and silver rewards. Not sure how to design said system, however given how well crafted, designed and worded the game is it's a shame for everyone to breeze on by entire levels/areas only to come but up against the end game. :🤷: my 2 cents for the day.

[restive raft]

I've played for....err.... 28 years? Something like that. Capped my first this year. I enjoy the variety and areas. I agree with you in general there. Just wanted to add that side-effect if faster capping is considered.

I do feel that cap could be easier to get to, but it should take a fair bit of time still, too. Not sure where that balance is exactly.

[sour drift]

Entirely agree. I have several capped characters and my greatest joy is the journey of lower levels.

[torpid tide]

I mean it can take 3 months to 28 years these days apparently!

People can go from 0 to 100 without ever stepping foot in a hunting ground!

[low lynx]

it's never been easier. stop trying to make the kids not have to suffer like we did 😁 /rabblerabblerabble

[tardy ore]

Back in my day, we had to go uphill both ways... in the snow, barefoot with a drake dagger to kill a kobold.

[tacit hinge]

I had a wee halfing warrior with a greatsword, those rats killed her a fair few times before I figured it all out. HAHA

[tardy ore]

Do you remember how absolutely cool you felt finding those drake falchions and going into the kobold village? Maaaaaaaaaan those days.

But also... it would be awesome if you auctioned off a "choose-your-own" SK tattoo. Fully decked out with 2 fancy spells of your choice (from the full list of available spells) and a full year of SK enhancive charging.

(to keep on topic)

[restive raft]

I'm too lazy to do the math....how much $ to buy cap from the jouster/gladiator? 😄

[inland zephyr]

12

[torpid tide]

More now than before! I think you could have gotten two 30 day scrolls attuned to the same dude by opening then rerolling and opening another. Not sure if you can time their usage right that the second wouldn't decay before the first ended though. I bet that could have got you down to 2 months to cap.

[wet forge]

I'm not using this thread to discuss any upcoming changes, but I noticed some really way off comments and saw a cancellation reason this afternoon based on this thread, so I'm going to just jump in a moment and mention a few things.

[cinder trout]

Real talk if you have combined 1B in your bank you should get a temporary "Moneybags" prename title that resets at the beginning of each month (Or "Silver Sultan")

https://tenor.com/view/yea-yeah-three-comma-three-comma-club-gif-6070986

[wet forge]

The floor isn't being impacted that much, but there are some planned changes for how the volume of things happen. Loot cap will be changing, lowering the ceiling. The goal is to also remove hard caps, but increase diminishing returns for those that want to keep going. Loot found at events will not bypass any sort of mechanics anymore. Not all loot does, but some of the randomly generated loot does. It will all work on the same system. Locksmith pool will have a fee, as it was intended in the original proposal that never got implemented. Silver generation from 0 to 10mil should have minimal impact.

Box quantity is being reviewed, but it would be replaced with more interesting loot in boxes. Experience would be adjusted for picking locks to account for lowering box quantities.

[grave bison]

Is there going to be an announcement document with all the details

[cinder trout]

Elanthian banks need to start offering a competitive interest rate on my savings or I will take my silvers elsewhere to kobold village local trust

[restive raft]

Send me your silver and I'll double it.... /s

[cinder trout]

Looking forward to interesting loot. Too bad you can't just plug chat gpt into the system and have it create 10,000 AI-altered clothings with shows and long descriptions
You would probably end up with some WILD outputs, meat dress

[lavish geyser]

You could but it would not be ideal or good

[torpid tide]

You'd need a dozen qc ai bots!

[tardy ore]

This sounds like more what I was hoping to see happen, since at first look it seems to not excessively affect casual and lower level players. Definitely curious to see more details come out.

[cinder trout]

"You alter idea does not comply with rule 3 section VI, deleting your sigil armor now"

[wet forge]

No, these changes are long overdue and we need them to happen. It will be announced, but it won't be something that exists to crawl every bit and agonize over the changes. I've not felt those documents are good things to share with the whole. I am a fan of having a test group of players review things, but those are real hit or miss.

[pale ether]

Not trying to disparage anyone, but some folks can't deal with anxiety and change in general and overreact.

I just find it hard to believe that "finding loot" is the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to cancelling.

I think the core of the game has always been social engagement to a degree, but a lot of that social engagement has switched over to discord (for better or worse) and you find folks gravitating to their little clicks of coders, crafters, RPers, mechanics, culture, etc.

[tardy ore]

How did we already jump to account canceling, the man has barely talked about the changes?!

We're gonna blow the entire thing in the first quarter if we don't simmer down.

Edit: OoOOoo I missed Wyrom's message about it. That's actually really unfortunate and I hope they use what's left of their game time to see Wyrom's updates and maybe reconsider.

[grave bison]

Some people will cancel an alt account as some sort of protest. But then like immediately resub.

[obtuse trail]

Let's not demonize people who cancel accounts

[grave bison]

I dont think anyone is doing that.

[torpid tide]

I mean you were bullying the low levels yesterday.

[wet forge]

Couple things to keep in mind, despite what you might read about me in the darkest moldiest holes of the Interwebs. I keep the game's best interest in mind, as part of the game, players are part of that. There is no hidden agenda to sabotage players, even the bad actors. I am more aligned with the game side than the business side, so I will always fight for core game benefits vs heavy monetization. These changes are in the best interest to help the game's thriving silver economy. The silver auction won't be a reset, but it will be a big offering with the current wealth of the game.

[pale ether]

Bullying the low levels is when you insult someone's adopted kid in game and then their mom, dad, aunt, uncle, and third cousin show up in the kobold village to kill you.

[wet forge]

The plan is also to get this out probably in December, along with some other changes.

[grave bison]

Do it while poly pots are on sale so everyone can make a rogue

[wet forge]

But we can maybe hang on until January 5th or something.

[sour drift]

Thanks for saying that, a few folks in this conversation earlier seemed pretty adamant that the players on the lower end of the scale absolutely must feel extreme pain to justify tamping down on the top earners. It was clearly a discouraging conversation and it was made worse when there was little staff interaction to counter the flood from those very vocal moneymakers who pushed their proposals pretty hard.

[cinder trout]

If loot cap ceiling lowers in Jan, when will we expect to see silver pricing of official items (event boxes, OSA ships, Tykel's custom vultite greatswords) decrease or is that not going to happen?

[torpid tide]

If 95% of the people were averaging 2m then these changes shouldn't affect them, do silver prices need adjusted?

[wet forge]

Last month I believe was another 10bil month. But we don't have an extreme abundance of silver lingering. Most people do spend it. CLAIM soaks up a lot, and EG performing twice as high as it ever did in October certainly helped. When EVENT BOX first came around, we were doing about 4 to 6bil a month. Locksmith pool jumped us to 8 to 9bil. And then gemstones have us at a solid 10bil.

[cold inlet]

Then why do I still have none billions?1!

[grave bison]

Sounds like we need more pity gemstone drops

[full zenith]

You do it's just attuned to you

[cinder trout]

I guess all the whales need to get their pre-auction bank balances framed as its all down from here

[tardy ore]

Listen here.... get out with your logic.

[cinder trout]

I fear I may not get into the three comma club ever now 😭

[tardy ore]

It's really not that cool of a club, the snacks are lame.

[tawny pivot]

I don’t think I understand the line about loot at events. Does that mean DR drops—or any other drops—will affect loot cap and be affected by loot cap?

[torpid tide]

That's what it sounds like to me, and sounds like some already were?

[pale ether]

I imagine loot cap was only tracking treasure generated by mobs at time of search for the most part.

All that 35k gear coming from arena boxes probably was not.

[tawny pivot]

That’s what I’m imagining too, but maybe I should have used any other event as an example since I don’t understand how it would count RW or EG drops against loot cap.

Edit: Ultimately, it might not matter that much because I think my conclusion either way would just be to either make sure to hit loot cap or make sure to avoid hitting loot cap before participating in the event, depending what its rewards are. But my curiosity has the better of me!

[grave bison]

What loot drops from rw or eg. Just simucoin stuff i think so it probably doesn't count

[barren berry]

There are snacks?

[pale ether]

Sounds like a problem for not me. I've never hit loot cap.

[tawny pivot]

Neither have I, but if they drop it low enough, I might start! I’d even intentionally do it to avoid DR drops because those are much worse on average than loot boosted Hinterwilds finds.

[tardy ore]

Er... uh... no. No snacks. Just lumpy bean bag chairs from 1982 that smell like a locker room.

[barren berry]

I thought for a moment I would have to put the silvers back in the bank from the coin hands to qualify for the club. I am glad to find out you were lying.

[restive raft]

Both the arena and sewers drop non-simucoin loot. That said, you could just turn that off for the extra script.

[tardy ore]

I genuinely do not know how you all can live with so many coins in your hands. I would panic nonstop about dropping/losing/being robbed by an angry leprechaun.

[barren berry]

Its a travesty, let me assure you. However the promise of snacks was almost enough to break my addiction.

[shrewd umbra]

Unchipped bricks?

[grave bison]

Right but only duskruin provides silvers above and beyond loot cap

[restive raft]

Fair, I'm obviously too tired to read things properly. Sorry.

[tardy ore]

If you let me hold your coin hand I can give you snacks. 🙂

[cinder trout]

How would that work in practice if you are guarenteed an item after each DR run? I assume you still get an item in the package but the value of the item is like 1 silver....

[cinder trout]

Collect 10,000 unchipped bricks to turn in for a private property

[lethal bolt]

Yeah - I love testing combat mechanical things/changes...not gonna spend my time testing things I won't ever do in game (like fishing/farming/etc). Would also be happy to test MORE if we could log in our test character and prime character at the same time!

[zenith bane]

How do we think locksmiths will make out with all of this? Got to imagine they'll take a hit in the tip department once the pool adds a fee.

[cinder trout]

"The restuarant is already charging me a $3 delivery fee, why would I also tip the driver?" ☠️

[zenith bane]

If I don't tip the doordash guy they can spit in my food, rogues in gemstone can't do that

[cinder trout]

Wyrom needs to slap a giant disclamier that says LOCKSMITH POOL FEES DO NOT GO TO THE LOCKSMITH

[tawny pivot]

Personally, I'll be even more dedicated to working the locksmith pool since the value of Mug takes a hit with a lower loot cap.

[cinder trout]

Mug rogues play 1 week then logout and enjoy the sun

[tardy ore]

Mug rogues will still play 3 weeks out of the month for our gemstones 🙂

[winged valve]

Side note: I feel like if people are already cancelling accounts because of baseless speculation in this thread, then this thread should be closed, and a new "here's the post auction silver plan" thread be created that is locked where GMs post the updates.

While I totally understand someone cancelling for whatever reason, I would hope that the information behind their reasons are legitimate. The internet sucks at keeping information legitimate.

I appreciate the clarity that was provided. But we all love to get off track around here.

[zenith bane]

are the silver costs associated with gemstones going to be lowered when loot cap goes down?

[lavish geyser]

This is basically what I was saying yesterday when the loot cap “proposal” was being thrown around like there was actual weight behind it when it reality we had 0 info that anything approximating any part of it would happen.

[wet forge]

Discussing these changes with people who have their finger on the pulse is also tough because people who likely are part of the 5% of earners are here. But this was November.

  Total Silver Tracked: 10,418,601,000
    Bottom 95% average: 4,560,000
     Bottom 95% median: 2,256,796

There are also cases where people have figured out ways to bump passed caps that will be nixed. These updates will likely undergo a few iterations of changes after launch because we will need to finetune things. Just the nature of the beast. Plus, if the pendulum swings too far in a different direction or there are unexpected outcomes because players can be squirrely. Unrelated to this, but there will also be some F2P updates coming. Again, not to create speculation, but just to close some loopholes. F2P has also been meant to be more of a longer trial experience, but it's been bending and buckling to get the most out of it or sidestep restrictions. That's never been the anticipated outcome of it.

[winged valve]

Can we pin your comments please, Wyrom? That way if things get off track people can at least point to those comments.

Thank you for the clarity on the issue.

[wet forge]

I like Chaos. Vanah doesn't.

[signal cave]

Piggybacking off this, introducing gemstones caused a lot more kills, myself included. Could there be a way where that extra hunting resulted in an artificer credit rather than loot generated? Like say gold rings were bad for the gemstone economy, give me a 3-5k chronomage credit rather than letting me get the gold ring itself.

[lethal bolt]

Have you ever shared with the top 50-95% of active accounts are raking in?

Like are the people at 94% of highest earners not hitting loot cap?

[lavish geyser]

I would expect not tbh - it likely follows a Pareto distribution to some degree

[analog hinge]

Post the top ten earners names! Like a Forbes list!

[spiral scaffold]

"I've never hit loot cap." and, "I make at least 29m every month without fail." can both be true statements in regards to any one account.

Hitting the hard cap is haaaaaaard. Getting 90% of the way there? Vibes like the RuneScape 92 is halfway to 99 meme.

[tawny pivot]

I don't understand how people even get past like 65% to hard cap, to be honest. Whenever I hit 22m (~62.8%) on some Gemstone-unlucky character, there's so little loot that I can hunt near-endlessly. It at least feels like a greater than 90% dropoff by then.

Edit: Well... okay, I suppose I understand how they do it--hunting forever--but I less understand why they would. The silver gains become so minimal that they might as well just revert to an exp-maximizing bounty-cycling playstyle.

[rich imp]

The loot cap is per character? I thought per account.

[tawny pivot]

It is per account.

[rich imp]

It's going to affect me but I find it hard to believe I'm in the top 5% of earners. We shall see how much I guess and whether I end up staying.

[torpid tide]

Now let's clear some things up here. This 22m isn't the amount of silver you see coming in, this is the amount you calculate to be in loot cap. Prior to trading and such, right?

I think different people have different understanding as to what is what.

[tawny pivot]

Neither, which does admittedly make some things fuzzy. I judge on what I see coming in and it would be more than 22m in the example, but then I’d divide out the Trading boost. The main things that would throw this off are 35k pawnshop items, where I’d be underestimating them by ~9-10k each, and silvers from bounties. It should still be very close overall, though, which is also why I gave a 65% estimate for fudge factor.

The bigger concern is that this is also contingent upon being correct that Trading doesn’t have any impact on loot cap. I can’t see why it would, but if it did, that would throw everything off.

[torpid tide]

Yes, I just wanted to point out that the number you see in ledger isn't where you are in lootcap 😁

[tawny pivot]

Yeah, I haven’t thought of any better way yet. If APPRAISE had 100% accuracy, that could theoretically do it, albeit with a wild number of extra thousands of commands to the server.

[compact tinsel]

I can corroborate her analysis there, and I do track loot on all of my accounts except one.
Loot slows down dramatically after 22m to 25m'ish. It's a steep curve. That last 5 mil+ requires quite an aggressive bit of playing.
I also dont have Leafiara's trading bonus on my characters...

I play a lot, I generate a lot of silvers, i have a handful of accounts and I MA them together....
That being said, I'm all for the loot changes to make the game healthier, even if it hits me negatively! Similarly with the CA/Mob Gen changes. Great updates for the health of the game.

[tawny pivot]

I'm excited to enact The Earthdiver Protocol for faster looting.

i don't know why anyone who can get close to loot cap even skins since it just takes away from enhancive loot```

[neon cave]

This is super low, but there's definitely a reason loot cap exists (this is shattered, no loot cap exists there):

+--------+---------+------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+
| Tysong | hourly  | daily      | monthly     | yearly        | ~lootcap    |
+--------+---------+------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+
| silver | 576,572 | 14,874,656 | 141,727,246 | 1,644,106,567 | 155,609,746 |
| bounty | 3,129   | 59,513     | 564,301     | 9,272,325     |             |
+--------+---------+------------+-------------+---------------+-------------+

That's definitely off a bit as I had some downtime today due to unexpected PC updates (thanks patch Tuesday) and also taking myself offline when not needed for the Prime only server maintenance.

My guy on Shattered is more in the median range still for silver intake to the others

[novel zephyr]

Question, since I don't have the data, about the side effect of reduced box quantity. Adjusting experience gained from picking to offset the lower box quantities is a good concept as long as boxes are available to pick. It still takes the same amount of time to pick a box, so is there a chance that the pool is just empty a lot because it's drained by the most dedicated of pickers? Like, it's nice that the experience will be increased, but it doesn't matter if the pool is empty when I go to work it. To put it another way, will this tend to benefit the 12 hours per day pickers at the expense of the 1 hour per day pickers? Is there a way to pre-calculate or simulate this to know the effect? (please don't think I'm against the potential improvements, just trying to understand)

[lavish geyser]

This is on one character? How? Capped, I assume.

[novel zephyr]

Similar to how it is today, in the last part of each month, when we are not exp pool limited, but box pool limited... just amplified to be all month long instead of just the last part of the month.

[pale ether]

I am immensely disappointed that after getting home from work I do not have 1000 plus messages to read here.

[grave bison]

Nothing to argue about really, Daddy gave details and now we wait!

[tranquil cypress]

How does the loot cap assign who's cap the loot goes against? Is it the person who searches the creature and finds it or the person who loots the actual contents of the box after it's unlocked?

[grave bison]

They've never told us, we assume it's on loot. They are very non-transparent when it comes to loot, unfortunately.

[tranquil cypress]

That's what I figured and makes the most sense. Like I think boxes would need to determine loot on drop rather then being unlocked so the cap would go against the searcher.

[lavish geyser]

They already have to. That’s the only way percentage based tipping can work as it currently does, not to mention box weight.

[torpid tide]

This is super low, but there's definitely a reason loot cap exists (this is shattered, no loot cap exists there):

when you can hunt 24/7 and there’s nothing to turn the spigot off.

[neon cave]

I normally avg 20m a day. And I'm way under optimized for silver farming. I'm trying more for exp farming currently.

Haven't gemstone unlocked there yet either. So all in Sanctum.

[lethal bolt]

Don't you socialist pigs (I say that lovingly) just put all your silvers in a pile on the town center bench? What do you even need 1b silvers for?!

[inland zephyr]

Silver events still happen, the WPS smithy is available permanently parked at the entrance to the rift if i recall

[odd badger]

What do y'all end up doing with all that silver? Do you stuff a mattress full of 1 billion silver notes?

[lethal bolt]

I wonder if the people who really enjoy shattered are those people who enjoyed taking care of that little digital pet...tamagachi or whatever. And they just want to keep getting their little pet adventurer gifts to watch them go about their little adventuring lives.

[neon cave]

https://tenor.com/view/picsou-scrooge-duck-coins-gold-gif-6105586

[neon cave]

https://tenor.com/view/killabears-we-like-the-bears-number-go-up-moon-wen-moon-gif-836365537663199235

[pale ether]

Autobattler games have become a thing in recent years. Lot of them on steam.

[shrewd umbra]

It's based on the looter.

[shrewd umbra]

What are the chances that with this loot nerf, you can get rid of loot pressure too while you're at it? It'd be nice to be able to hunt places like Nelemar again and actually find loot instead of avoiding areas because they stay chronically broke. And with loot cap mechanics, loot pressure is redundant and pointless anyway.

[astral sand]

I like the idea of revisiting loot pressure. I don't think it works well these days...the way it was originally intended.

As a compromise perhaps baseline loot is increased so even Nelemar and WL Zombies have average loot, at a minimum.

[lethal bolt]

I’ve never really played for loot. I don’t even know what my characters bring in. So much of that gets mixed up as I sell services and items. But I would enjoy getting boxes if they actually had decent stuff in them.

It does feel like my mid level characters bring in more in loot from hunting then my capped ones. But I also don’t shift around to try and earn as much as possible each day.

Although - I guess that is only the confluence that has that daily cap?

[shrewd umbra]

Yeah only Confluence is like that. Which is also pointless with a loot cap in place but that's old leftover pre-loot cap garbage from Coase. Boxes don't drop there anyway which is big sad

[light gazelle]

...I am aware that I am in the minority that likes having one hunting area that doesn't have boxes (or something heavy equivalent) I can go to.

Confluence is the one place I can go hunt, pop a major loot boost, and actually hunt the whole 15 minutes. Anywhere else (except maybe kiramon and not the post-cap area) I would get forced out to deal with encumbrance issues due to boxes or those 3lb rocks.

[shrewd umbra]

I'm not suggesting they add boxes to the Confluence. The daily cap in there is pretty pointless though.

[light gazelle]

Commenting that "it's a big sad" is hard to take another way.

[lavish geyser]

So a few months back I started leveling 3 alts from scratch and I think they have each averaged 3M/month or so leveling from 0-30ish. Not loot cap level crazy, but not nothing certainly.

[light gazelle]

Boxes do drop in confluence though, when they're a feeder or legendary.

[shrewd umbra]

Plinites are close enough to "boxes" for in there for all intents and purposes unless people are trying to farm enhancives or something

[light gazelle]

yepyep and I enjoy those too!

[shrewd umbra]

That's just poor wording on my part

[lethal bolt]

Plinites are definitely different than the rocks from The Hive, right? Different treasure inside? I know rocks can just be squeezed open but not sure I've ever seen a plinite.

[tawny pivot]

Plinites can either be sold as-is or you can get a locksmith to open them so you can sell the plinite and the core (worth more) separately.

[lethal bolt]

Oh - so you don't pull out enhancives and lockpicks and whatnot...just always the core and the plinite

[light gazelle]

yeah.

you can open them (it breaks the plinite) or you can extract them or have someone extract them and you get both the core and the plinite provided you don't mess up and it explodes.

[wet forge]

Not sure if we can remove loot pressure, or we're just moving the goal posts and just ending up where we're at without hard caps. But the other idea is that we have more interesting loot too. Should feel exciting finding boxes, it shouldn't be because you can't fit anymore.

[tacit hinge]

I definitely like the idea of more interesting loot

[low lynx]

how am i suppose to know when to return to town if my encumbrance doesn’t read: extreme? 😁

[tawny pivot]

I'm still grinding harder than I ever did 🎵
Slaying like a true min-maxer 🎵
Feeling like a little kid 🎵
I'm still grinding after all this time 🎵
Picking up 500 pounds of loot to make the riches mine 🎵

[tranquil cypress]

To me I enjoy the community and to a lesser extent the RP but what I really enjoy is finding loot. The what could this box hold when I turn it in to the pool. It kinda sucks when its just a few silvers and a couple gems - but that is also what makes finding something nice interesting. I enjoy finding loot and seeing how I could fit it in to my characters OR selling it and using that silver to buy something I could use. If boxes drop less but have more of a chance to have something interesting in it I think it would be a net benefit.

[full zenith]

When you hit the item limit full of ratty hats and quivers.

[tacit hinge]

I got to say I do love finding trail trash. I also find it interesting that sometimes there are days when you find multiple items of the same color, that kind of goes in streaks in my experience.

[low lynx]

the atoll pumps out some really streaky clothing

be all blouses for a few days, then onto kilt week

[gritty folio]

bumping the item limit up one day would be nice, however practical

[pale ether]

1 year later, sales of silvery blue potions have tanked so we need to quadruple the number of boxes found.

[torpid tide]

I think there's enough packrats it wouldn't matter

[grave bison]

Can you define interesting when you say interesting loot

[torpid tide]

I wonder how much stuff is gonna get bought and just disappear.

[barren berry]

Most of it

[tawny pivot]

Yes, everybody should let me win every item I bid on because then it'll be guaranteed to see daily use!

[winged valve]

No. Me. 😛

[zenith bane]

I'm honestly not sure what the benefit was to announcing this auction along with confirming that there are going to be loot cap and other loot changes. I am risk averse and the idea of blowing all/most of my silver pile (I am not in the 1bn+ club, but I am doing alright) without knowing how my silver income will do in 2026 is... difficult, and I'll likely not end up buying anything as a result. I get the desire to drain before the changes, but I think that announcing the changes may end up making it harder to achieve the drain.

[lethal bolt]

I am inclined to hoard my silvers (not in the 1bn club either) just to have their value shoot to the moon. Diamond hands!

[pale ether]

Its a made up currency. It has zero value always. Spend that mess.

[sour drift]

I mean... I'd love to buy something but highly doubt my little scrooge pile will be enough to afford anything I'd want

[lethal bolt]

It clearly has value to some people. So...I shall not just discard it. Just like my bitcoins I am holding on to that I got when I bought my friend a pizza back in the day.

[zenith bane]

The idea that I just yeeted 12mo worth of sale 30 day encumbrance potions into my halfling monk, and that we may be less than a month from encumbrance not really mattering anymore due to reduction of box volume is, well, not my favorite, lol

[lethal bolt]

Send that baby to the Hive! SO MANY ROCKS

[rich imp]

I am not spending anything for the time being.

[wet forge]

We could just delete all silvers and start over with a made up currency name! YOU NEVER KNOW.

[shrewd umbra]

Batcoin

[wet forge]

Jokes aside, it's been a HIGH consideration for years.

[tardy ore]

There would be a riot. Like I can't even imagine the level of insane that would get.

[wet forge]

I have 155 days of vacation time banked since I've not taken any time off since 2014.

I have a use it or lose it situation.

[zenith bane]

Wyrom deletes silvers and puts up an OOO, Tivvy sweating bullets

[tardy ore]

Maaaaaaan, poor Tivvy getting promoted just to take the fall.

[wet forge]

(I'm not deleting silvers, please don't go after Tivvy)

[pale ether]

They just need to pay time out to you Wyrom.

[rich imp]

In silvers.

[cinder trout]

Just send out a heavily discounted HESS silver list and say "Use it or lose it, you have 2 weeks". Then move to the new gold standard. (Faenor Nuggets will be the new defacto currency)

[torpid tide]

I can see it now. Looking for Ensorcell, trading 1/15th of my nugget.

[cinder trout]

It would probably be for the medium to whale economy..... Selling 8x somnis maul, 2.5 faenor nuggets

[lethal bolt]

Is long as you could convert up to 250m in silvers to the new currency (and delete all currency above that) I would not be unhappy.

[daring narwhal]

i have to imagine its because if they didnt tell us, the outroar when they do it afterward is just as troublesome: "why didn't you tell us this was coming before!!!"

[zenith bane]

Yeah, I think that's right

[scenic flower]

... can I delete silvers then? That way your hands are clean, just as you committed

[pale ether]

I think you could delete silvers if you just allowed for players to convert balances to experience or ascension experience. Just need to figure out the right conversion rate.

[wet forge]

[winged valve]

Delete silvers. Move to the gold standard!

Or make it a dynamic economy. Each city has its own currency, backed by gold, instead of silvers. The silver/gold exchange rate fluctuates based on a d100 roll, but you can only exchange like 1mil per day. Most gold you can get is like 10,000 for 1,000,000 silver, but on bad exchange rate days you get only like 5,000. 10,000 is the max. Over a long enough time period (2-3 years), silver will lose value relative to gold. The exchange restriction is by account, not by character. The more you exchange over time, the less the brokers want to exchange with you. Each month a new city shifts to the new currency (it can start in EN, be a whole thing where the elves take over the global economy, add invasions and a plot, there isn't enough gold yet mined by the enslaved dwarves in Zul due to them being constantly killed in the hive).

There would be a limbo period for accounts that werent' active at the time of the announcement if they come back and their silvers were no longer valid they get some kind of like average exchange rate.

[low lynx]

finally, all these silver-to-gold gems i've been hoarding will be meaningful!

[winged valve]

Or something, we're at back of the napkin stage of the idea here.

But I think phasing out the currency has merit. Introduce a new currency. It'll have its own problems. In 10-15 years, phase that one out (yes. I believe our degenerate selves will still be here doing the same thing in 10-15 years)

[scenic flower]

And then in 30 years, have a silver auction for two currencies ago, just to mess with folks.

[winged valve]

"and for the next item up for bid at DR Mania 5135 we're only accepting Fools-gold. which if you recall was the currency of choice after the Zul rebellion of 5127"

[winged valve]

Oh! There could be community driven quest events too! Like this weeks exchange rate is better if a certain number of people completed the (repeatable 1x/week) Raid The Coffers quest. That way people could try to push the exchange rates up or down based on the mechanical aspect of the game.

||the quest would involve killing lots of elves. Who needs elves anyway?||

[rich imp]

I'm sure you guys have discussed it but why not a universal currency? Gold. Scrips would convert like 1 to 1000. Silvers 1 to 1. Hard cap on gold would be like 1m per month for reg accounts and 3m per month for premium accounts. Prices for things like duskruin would just be x1000!? I feel like I might be missing something or doing the numbers wrong. But I was thinking you could potentially earn (hunting) up to $3 worth of currency per month (1m gold) from a regular sub to spend at events or however you like really.

[harsh flame]

everyone uses gold. let's go with platinum

[pale ether]

I think a complete reset is the way to go but not sure Wyrom can withstand the stress.

[harsh flame]

server reset back to level 0. opportunity to revamp and rebalance the classes and mechanics too!

[frosty isle]

reset doesn't do much since the other event currency still exist

[pale ether]

Paid currency is paid currency.

[frosty isle]

so the reset won't do anything since you not providing new outlets to spend the free curency

[winged valve]

Just have everyone blame me instead.

Wyrom ends up stress free!

[frosty isle]

plus u still could trade the currency so it doesn't really change anything,people still could buy the new currency and probably at discounted rates since they won't need as much

[pale ether]

A complete reset would allow for new things not possible with the existing system.

[frosty isle]

like?

[grave bison]

This is off topic since it's supposed to be about silver generation.

[winged valve]

Not off-topic.

In this context, if we just take silver to mean currency. As it is really the only endgame currency. They are synonymous.

De-Generation is a subset of generation.

So post-auction currency degeneration.

We are decidedly on topic.

[wet forge]

We already have gold in TICKET/SCRIP. It was more to solve the integer limits. Would be a way to handle the auction, honestly.

[daring narwhal]

Trade and barter society, i will give you 3 almonds for a temporal tower shield

[winged valve]

Oh! So exchange passed the integer limit into an “auction gold.” That way people can bid 4b or whatever?

[low lynx]

i love goooooollllllddddddd

[winged valve]

I do this with friends and services and items. It’s far more fun than exchanging silver.

[pale ether]

If silver could be converted to tickets/scrip at a limited rate per account with different values for subscription level and then auctions and raffles offered for tickets/scrip you could do a lot I imagine.

[grave bison]

Sure, I'll buy bloodscrip at 750k per 1000 bloodscrip.

[pale ether]

With a conversion, you could limit the total amount converted to what the player has earned which is already tracked via loot cap. Would shut down acquiring funds via other means.

[nova sun]

It also killed my idea of an Ascension-only currency!

😢

[low lynx]

it should of couse be called Ascendium

[cold inlet]

What does ascension-only currency even mean?!

[pale ether]

I mean isn't that ATPs?

[low lynx]

you. buy. now.

[grave bison]

We already have ascension currency:
You are carrying 20 gigas artifact fragments.

[cold inlet]

Right, that's what immediately came to mind

Are we talking like reim scrip with a prize wall?

[grave bison]

Uncap the limit and let me buy permanent HW boosts for high amounts.

[tardy ore]

Gemstone codexes 🤤

[cold inlet]

I super like the gigas fragment implementation, would love to see more like it. Buying flares is the best.

[inland zephyr]

Cash. Grass. Or Asc. No one rides for free.

[pale ether]

Current Issues with Silver

alt-armies transfer silver → bypass individual income limits

old hoarded silver distorts current markets```

Bound Currency Benefits
```1. It stops multi-account funneling from dominating economy

Right now, top 5% players can:

loot cap across 10+ alts

funnel all income into one auction-winning character

buy silver with cash from other players

This amplifies the wealth gap.

A personal, non-tradeable currency stops that.```

```2. It creates a “soft cap” on high-end purchasing power

Hoarded silver becomes less relevant for exclusive services.

Monthly earning matters more than lifetime hoarding.

This is precisely how other MMOs stabilize economies after inflation.```

```3. It preserves the secondary market for normal items

Important:

This idea does NOT kill the silver market.

People still trade silvers.

People still sell items for silvers.

Silvers still matter for:

player shops

normal services

day-to-day economy

hunter earns → sells loot → buys gear

The only thing that changes is:

You can no longer use 20 years of hoarded silver to buy every top shelf event service forever.```
```4. It rewards ACTUAL monthly play 

Farmers earn more silver → convert more → get more event currency.

Casuals still get some.

Whales cannot buy advantage.

Hoarders cannot dominate.```

[shrewd umbra]

If you want to effectively drain the silver out of the game, just tie it to exp and sell RPA orbs for silvers, either indefinitely or for a limited time.

There's never going to be any sort of universally "good" solution to accomplish these silver draining goals, but this would probably be the most effective.

If you need checks in place for it, then scale the price in a similar way to WPS, either monthly or based on your total exp or whatever.

Exp is the one thing in this game that's never not in demand.

[grave bison]

I would like this, I could drop my 4 extra accounts and just play a single account.

I would save so much money not buying extra gear for alts at duskruin or other simucoin events.

[compact tinsel]

Counterpoint:
the Secondary market does help fuel the game.

Especially with returning players and new players.

[pale ether]

Staff could always offer things for silvers, but there needs to be an alternative to the existing system too.

[grave bison]

I think it's dangerous to change a system that has for better or worse been working for 30 years.

[pale ether]

Working for 30 years? Hasn't the whole conversation and reason for Wyrom's announcement been because it doesn't work and the only reason it lasted so long is because the majority of players didn't really engage?

[zenith bane]

The alternative to the existing system is pay events

[tardy ore]

I would argue that it worked for about 20 years, but the implementation of alternative currencies as really the main game currencies started us down the dark path.

Things like the locksmith pool just made it worse.

[pale ether]

Just about every modern MMO offers a currency that changes and resets.

[obsidian lagoon]

But most of those run on micro transactions.

[tardy ore]

1. We're not a modern MMO.
2. I would also argue that point. Most MMOs have a number of alternative currency systems, but still have a main currency.

[grave bison]

If I'm being honest, I'm surprised they even care what happens to Silvers. The only thing it gets you in this game are things from other players. All of the new things they offer are sold for alternate currencies.

[tardy ore]

Now if you're arguing that end-game tier equipment should be based on creature drops and weekly quests... I am absolutely down for that, but I think we all know that's not reasonable.

[pale ether]

Saying we're not a modern MMO is like saying we're happy being stuck with mechanics that don't work and would have been differently given 30 years of hindsight

[obsidian lagoon]

I mean, no one likes to feel loot is worthless.

[tardy ore]

No it's not, but you can't compare gemstone to a modern MMO, the very essence of the games are completely different.

[pale ether]

They're not, all games are rooted in accomplishing goals, exploration, community, social interaction, roleplay, etc

[obsidian lagoon]

I don't know that I'd honestly even consider us an MMO. I guess, in the strictest definition sure, but we're a large MUD.

[grave bison]

Sure, but if you're only going to get the "good" things if you spend actual cash. Why does it even matter what happens to silvers.

[obsidian lagoon]

The feels.

[tardy ore]

To me, that's like saying Stardew Valley and Fortnite are the same.

They are fundamentally different, just like Gemstone and, say, World of Warcraft.

[torpid tide]

Where does Roblox fall?

[winged valve]

What about this:

do it suddenly, and without warning. Any in game bank account with more than 20000000 in it gets everything after 20,000,000 poofed from the game. Then players get a gift box relative to the amount they lost. (It won’t be wonderfully comparable)

[pale ether]

Hunt → Earn XP + Loot → Rest → Upgrade Gear → Repeat

The difference is in scale and production values.

[obsidian lagoon]

Is there an exploitation genre?

[zenith bane]

I continue to be amazed players accept silvers for services

[winged valve]

It’s a new thing. Dev platform+base game. Like Fortnite (though Fortnite is more restrictive).

I hate Roblox. My son loves it too much. I should start making games there instead of complaining about them.

[grave bison]

No. How about you lose everything on your character, but everyone else gets to keep everything they have.

[obsidian lagoon]

It's a "known" medium of exchange. It's the chicken of a barter economy.

[compact tinsel]

What else would they take?

[zenith bane]

Bloodscrip, that you can buy actual worthwhile things with, lol

[compact tinsel]

Ahh… yeah, but that’s not readily available during non-DR time.

But you bring up a good point… DR should just be available year round. 😬

[obsidian lagoon]

No, apparently GS can only make money in Even months.

[low lynx]

at least the annex portion and/or shops 😁

[tardy ore]

Just swap out the wares quarterly in the HESS!

[low lynx]

hess usually requires gm's, which could distract them from other things if they're constantly needing to redeem DR things. but the annex and the shops don't!

[winged valve]

I did think it would be fun to phase out silver and phase in an actual crypto backed currency.

We could call it whatever. But basically you could cash out some silver for a cryptocurrency ir give people and amount based on their subscription level.

Then you get a small amount of crypto but it has an upper bound like BTC does. As more “blocks get mined” (mobs get dead - each attach runs one calculation for block mining) less and less “gemstone crypto” can be claimed.

[obsidian lagoon]

That's not entirely true. A pretty significant percentage of it is automated now.

[low lynx]

everything automated should be in the annex

[grave bison]

Silvers only get you things from other players. Until the game offers something for silvers there is no real reason for silvers to matter.

[compact tinsel]

I think that’s why Keruta said at least the Annex & Shops.

HESS stuff is all still touched by a GM

[obsidian lagoon]

Nice, I welcome the multitude of slave labor miners that will bring in /s

[grave bison]

The real problem all along is that silvers moved from getting you nice things, to event currency getting you the nice things.

[pale ether]

Or is it the amount of inflation that has impacted event currency? Duskruin prices have skyrocketed on some offerings

[grave bison]

You think duskruin prices are going to go down after the silver reduction?

[zenith bane]

Stillfront doesn't care how much silver something sells for, they'd have to add a column on their earnings for "Silvers" it would be a whole thing

[grave bison]

I hate to break it to you but duskruin prices are like grocery prices, they're never going back down.

[frosty isle]

eggs wants a word

[torpid tide]

eggs come from the chickens and some established earlier that chickens are like the standard bottom value currency

[tardy ore]

So I've only really been back for like a yearish now, have DR prices really increased? I know they haven't for the 3 runs I've been here for.

[pale ether]

I suppose Gemstone is rather unique in how far into mechanical offerings it has gone for cash.

Most games that's kind of the death knell as soon as they start selling mechanical advantages for cash.

The arguement has always been there's no real competition in Gemstone but I definitely earn more with an SK506 compared to someone that doesn't have 1 over the same timeframe.

[obsidian lagoon]

I feel like they have been "stable" since 2020ish.

[pale ether]

Nerve staves with rot flares for 20k bloodscrip back in the first run or two

+10 CER crit weighting for like 150k BS

[frosty isle]

overall DR stuff are cheaper if you paying with simucoin

[grave bison]

But it's not going to get cheaper if there are less silvers generated.

[pale ether]

If you lose customers/sales you have 3 options:

Offer something new to entice customers
Reduce costs on existing offers to entice customers
Go out of business eventually

[grave bison]

Has anything offered at duskruin been reduced in price, to date?

[zenith bane]

script add. like, materially reduced, at that

[compact tinsel]

SK506/515
SK215

[torpid tide]

script add was reduced as was the tier of said script add

[tawny pivot]

Did 506 and 515 drop or are we comparing to Manias? (I genuinely don't remember.)

[compact tinsel]

You’re right. I’m comparing to mania.

SK215 did drop in price. It was 1m BS prior to the SK a la carte being launched.

[grave bison]

Script adds is a good one. Where/how was SK215 offered before the reduction?

Personally, I don't think we're going to see wide-scale reductions related to silver generation.

If we could buy event offerings for silvers, we wouldn't have the silver issues we have.

[pale ether]

Long term the question is can Wyrom primarily come up with a good revenue loop that promotes better buy in.

The current strategy of catering to whales and exorbitant pricing can only last so long because eventually eventually, you do hit a mechanical limit of absurdity within that 1% of players. Then again if staff just stops overthinking this stuff and selling numbers go up items you'll make some money.

Personally I thought the battle vaults were the right way to go because you create an offering appealing to at least half of your playerbase and since part of the offering is paid currency the player uses it or buys in a little further since they already have some currency burning a whole in their pocket.

It almost becomes a subscription tier on top of a subscription tier as you're paying a quarterly fee for those battle vaults but the enhanced experience gain is just far to much of a draw.

[obsidian lagoon]

Right it goes back to, just sell exp.

[winged valve]

This is only an argument for zeroing out the economy. Eat the rich, as it were. I have no issue with this. 😉

[lavish geyser]

It's really interesting to me how many people will pay to not play the game, essentially. 🙂 The journey is the point

[frosty isle]

they already sell exp with the turn-in

[obsidian lagoon]

People have different goals in life.

[winged valve]

Hold on. It took me almost 20 years to get any character to cap. I'm not getting younger!

[frosty isle]

journey is ok for a week not 30 years

[pale ether]

The journey as it were with Gemstone is the stories told via player driven events and GM storylines. Organic moments.

No one sits around talking about how they killed a million mobs and sat in town absorbing experience for 20 years.

[obsidian lagoon]

Sure....that won't make anyone rage quit at all.

[pale ether]

The sad and brutal truth is that once enough of us die off the game is finished.

[zenith bane]

We need to start making TikToks about Gem Stone Four

[compact estuary]

I operate under the assumption that this is a risk but not a certainty. The game would need accessibility improvements - and more marketing - to reach a wider/younger audience, but there's no reason why those aren't achievable.

[grave bison]

Bigger worry is that the game shuts down after 1-2 bad event revenue.

[frosty isle]

how long does ishowspeed take to cap a character?

[lavish geyser]

I mean, in some cosmic sense, this is true of everything. 😉

[low lynx]

at least we're going together! 😅

[daring narwhal]

heh i do

[obsidian lagoon]

My first wife made artist teddy bears for a "living". She had the same problem, her base died out killing her business.

[winged valve]

I know its not going to happen. I should avoid being so flippant though.

[winged valve]

Its why I'm trying to introduce my kid to it. He enjoyed it for a few months, but isn't interested in playing right now (stupid roblox)

[daring narwhal]

nah we'll just crowdfund it - setup a patreon for the hampster

[lavish geyser]

Easy fix. Get a pihole. Add roblox to the banlist.

[obsidian lagoon]

Kids react well when you ban them from their hobbies....Probably about as well as rich people who have their stuff taken away.

[winged valve]

Its on the list to at least limit time of day. We only allow it 3 days a week and a limit of 2 hours.

And yes, @obsidian lagoon, its really similar

[lavish geyser]

Yeah but Roblox is also sinister and bad. Lots of dark patterns, borderline child labor monetization with the modding scene, etc. I knew a guy that left Roblox for Meta because it felt less evil in comparison

[winged valve]

If I want to destroy my kid's social life, I'll ban roblox completely. We have a decent balance right now. And this is definitely about post-auction silver musings because... uhm... We... don't want to be like Roblox.

And yes, Roblox is the worst of them. He goes in phases in games. Right now its a Roblox phase. But there are rarely 11 year olds who don't play Roblox in some capacity.

And also silvers after the auction, amirite?!

[scenic flower]

... are we converting Silvers to Robux? How did we get here? What's happening?

[winged valve]

Roblox bought Stillfront. #fakenews

[lavish geyser]

There are just too many silvers in the system, we needed a new outlet

[scenic flower]

in Teddy Bears?

[pale ether]

I keep playing because of the nostalgia of the game, the good memories I have, some really fantastic roleplay moments shared with others, the lore, the community. Heck, even the obvious passion of staff members keeps me motivated to remain a part of something truly unique.

All the money sunk is a big incentive too. I think there are times for everyone where we're basically just going through the motions completing lumnis or daily brooch rubs.

The only real thing I miss from the platinum instance is that darn discount cause man I love the mechanics of Gemstone and some of the zany stuff that has been cooked up over the past 5 years but I will absolutely positively never ever spend like 500k bloodscrip on a single service unless I were to save for like 5 years and that is just kind of depressing to the extent that I won't even bother with paid events beyond what the battle vault yields because that's a good value for the experience boosts.

[daring narwhal]

i play to see number go up, legit

number get bigger, Nathan get happy

[odd badger]

For the 'has anything ever lowered in price at Duskruin' night shroud cloaks got a 1/3rd price reduction August 2021

[shrewd umbra]

I mean it’s totally reasonable, Simu just wouldn’t like it because $

[lethal bolt]

That’s maybe only true for the first 100 levels. But afterwards you can spend all those silvers on gemstones! And those levels go so fast now you’ll barely notice.

[grave bison]

The biggest gemstone cost is dust, another alternate currency. To get more dust you give other players silvers.

[cold inlet]

The biggest gemstone cost is gemstones. Dust is free

[lavish geyser]

mmm. Disagree on that last part. Still multiple years in the average case.

[cold inlet]

Second biggest is unlocking slots for those expensive gemstones

[lethal bolt]

Maybe Alastir hasn’t done much with gemstones. Who would pay for dust!

[lethal bolt]

Maybe only by people that idk. Play once a week?

[lavish geyser]

No. Even if you make 70k exp a week, it’s 2 years. That’s a lot more than once a week.

[grave bison]

I think I currently have about 100 gemstones. Still waiting for the right ones to show up.

[lethal bolt]

Idk man. If it takes you 2 years to cap you might not be playing the game the way I am.

[compact tinsel]

Everyone plays differently! Some folks take 20 years to cap.

[winged valve]

That’s me!

Then 6 months to get to 2x cap. lol.

[lavish geyser]

I mean yeah that's absolutely true. But just saying, 10k exp/day is still 2 years. And that's 3-5 hours of daily play, depending. Exclusive of orbs/boosts/whatever. Lumnis is sneaky in that it'll allow you to basically do a couple of 10-15 min sessions in the morning/evening and then offline absorb for effectively 5k/day. I have a couple of alts doing literally only that.

[inland zephyr]

"daily play" does a lot of work when you can be afk for 98% of it. I'm not really disagreeing with you getting ~50k a week is super common for a ton of players even on "mains" just it sounds dramatic but if you really want to get more the actual keyboard time required is low, you just gotta be consistent. Not a surprise given the system that a lot of the "this is so you have to stop and roleplay" limitations of gemstone have been pivoted to like "you have a little fun as you can then go back afk at work" semi-idle game (without even considering the definitely-paying-attention scripting component of all that).

If i saw my actual /played time i'd drop to my knees and sobbing in the middle of walmart but at least somewhat comforted in knowing a lot of it i wasn't like HERE here. lol

[lavish geyser]

I mean yeah I agree - I've definitely taken a character from 29->41 here in just a couple weeks with the EG scroll and think I had a day with 70k exp. But that's not normal (or healthy, one might suggest and I would concur)

[shrewd umbra]

GS might be the only game ever where the most effective way to level up is to be actively playing the game as little as possible i.e. afk resting at a node

[tawny pivot]

Yeah, GS exp gain is more a game of just staying logged in than anything else. In my bandit farming days, I'd only actually play like 5 minutes per hour or something.

[grave bison]

We need the 2000-4000 field experience buckets

[obsidian lagoon]

Eve online, skill training is real time, so the best way to level is "have an active account". But I'd agree it's generally an outlier.

And I know that they made exp "purchasable" now in Eve. So it can be accelerated.

[tawny pivot]

And the perfect opportunity for this is coming right up with the loot cap about to go lower, incentivizing people to stand around doing nothing for longer periods of time.

[rich imp]

Found this today in a box and it made me so happy. It was perfect for my wizard (who actually found it). It's the kind of loot I hope we find more of after the changes...

a pair of slim silver wool socks patterned with red foxes - +2 to dex bonus (replaces his lucky socks but I can find another spot for luck)

[tacit hinge]

Those are pretty cute!

[wet vector]

I hate change. I vote against it

[odd badger]

Will be interesting to see how the change affects the usefulness of WR and encumbrance potions.. I think I'm almost out of encumbrance potions.. also looks like there's not a yearly use one..

[torpid tide]

Some people won’t need them anymore. But the people who actually needed them before will still need them!

[spiral scaffold]

I didn't know that I wanted a yearly encumbrance potion and now I do.

[hazy token]

Just drank my 12 for the year...😅

[rich imp]

Yesterday was like the greatest hunting and loot day ever. It seemed like every critter dropped a box. Going to miss it.

[winged valve]

We’re all different. I hate it when that happens. Because I get encumbered after a few and then get slaughtered by insects.

[rich imp]

Might be neat to be able to turn boxes on and off. Although I do love finding left boxes in the wilds. Yesterday was like the perfect storm. Good gems dropping also. Felt like the loot was turned up a couple notches. I always wondered if simu does that (like during the weekend and on a holiday). Or if it's just the loot pressure and stuff in place working. as intended.

[winged valve]

Randomness clusters naturally. It’s like a “hot streak” at the casino.

And humans are exceptional at noticing it, and then attributing other meaning to it

And it does feel good/fun.

[fickle jacinth]

I feel like in the old, old days boxes were less common and had better loot. I'd like to return to that model where boxes mean something

[lavish geyser]

This. I want to find a box and actually get excited. Minimum box weight should be 50 lbs and most of that should be items and not silvers 😄

[wet forge]

That's the plan.

And it might take us a bit to get right, but we just have to do something.

[scenic flower]

Top 5 silver account holders auto-monster bolded. Killing them yields 5% of their wealth

IP wide

[lavish geyser]

I wasn't being super serious with the box comment (at least not the 50 lb min weight); didn't actually expect that, but fair enough 😄 In that case, can boxes be worth proportionately more exp (both for picking and pool LTS?)

[obsidian lagoon]

It’s certainly a valid concern that box changes should include a review of how rogues earn exp maybe.

[snow lodge]

I think a big problem is the amount of searches it takes to get a gemstone which is adding to the silver generation. I don't want to search 10k searches for a gemstone. I'd be happy spending much less time contributing to silver generation issues.

[obsidian lagoon]

Also, fwiw, I don't want to find "interesting things" in boxes. The probability they will be something I want approaches zero, so I either need to find a buyer, or I need to pawn it. Seems like a hassle to just get my loot.

[grave bison]

I'd like nothing but gems or enhancives in boxes.

[lavish geyser]

No - we need just interesting fluffy things too. Events shouldn't be the only source for that

[grave bison]

define fluffy things

[lavish geyser]

Clothing, containers? I think @winged valve has some sort of potted plant or something which was a legendary box drop. Maybe a master quality instrument every now and then?

[grave bison]

If they're special in some way, sure. I don't want all the junk clothing.

[lavish geyser]

Junk is somewhat relative - a purse which holds 5 pounds and any number of items can be altered and lightened+deepened into a very nice shoulder-worn container

[grave bison]

Selling a ripped turquoise blouse to the pawnshop for 100 silvers is a waste of time. I don't want it.

[lavish geyser]

But agreed that we don't need things which are objectively worse/inferior to basic shop clothing

[upbeat fossil]

I’d love to see the box drop rate cut down to 1/50, 1/100 or even less from current levels. Finding one box from an hour of heavy hunting is fine in my mind, if the rewards are good

[lavish geyser]

That's maybe a bit much. I understand if you're coming at it from the perspective of Ascension zones and gemstone hunting though.

[upbeat fossil]

I think for a lower level character or newer player, going out for an evening of hunting and then eventually hauling in one or even two boxes could be very rewarding if they have cool(er) stuff. They don’t need to fill up half of their lockbox pool limit from a single day’s labor, especially if in the current form they’re just getting silvers from pawning everything inside anyway

[lavish geyser]

But lower level players don't do an hour of heavy hunting. They do like 10 minutes of it at most, fry and/or run out of mana, and head back to town square

[torpid tide]

Not a bad idea to stock up on junk clothing now before the changes! Had many years to!

[upbeat fossil]

Right. Getting a box once a week could feel special for a casual player. Don’t see anything wrong with that. One box with some actually useful stuff vs. 50 with pawn fodder isn’t a terrible trade off, in theory anyway

[fickle jacinth]

I would be good with finding boxes to be an actual rarity and being relatively certain that the box contains something cool. It doesn't need to have silvers in it either.

[lavish geyser]

That's all well and good, but consider that's going to be a big hit to their long-term exp and it sounded like the devs were broadly okay with the income of the bottom 95% of players

[light gazelle]

That's going to cascade into Rogues not being able to do lfm.

[fickle jacinth]

And add in some sort of automated lockpicking tasks for the rogue locksmith pool so they can grind away there. Similar to the bounty system - Picked 20 locks, here's some silver and exp

[upbeat fossil]

Can’t they just 50x the experience and rewards for the locksmithpool? Or would that not scale properly…? (Legit question, I’m not familiar with how it works for the pickers)

[lavish geyser]

I'm not familiar with the numbers offhand but I feel like that wouldn't quite work - 50x scaling would probably be instant saturation if a box is even 20 exp (and they're probably more than that)?

[tawny pivot]

Depending on how drastic the reduction in box quantity is, I'm currently envisioning:

• 511 and crates (from crate whistles) simultaneously get better and worse; they can store more relative to the duration of a hunt, but also don't need to store as often, so in a sense they save encumbrance less often
• 520 versions that aren't air move up in value while air moves down; Air lore for 520 air accordingly becomes comparatively less valuable
• Armor adjustments that aren't armor support move up in value while armor support moves down
• Blessings and Demonology lore for 314 and 704 become comparatively less valuable
• Encumbrance charms, encumbrance potions, giants' encumbrance advantage, Porter, and weight reduction become largely frivolous
• Epic deepening becomes a bit excessive
• Full plate probably remains favored, but using accessories if you happen to acquire good metal breastplate, augmented breastplate, or half plate becomes relatively better since the primary advantage of full plate over those is encumbrance
• Lockpicking skills simultaneously get better and worse; field picking becomes more advantageous to drastically lengthen hunt duration, but locksmith pool picking becomes less steady; 407 and 408 move up in value, relatively speaking, since their current primary disadvantage for non-enruned and non-mithril boxes is that it takes longer per box than a skilled locksmith, but this is most noticeable with larger piles of boxes

Probably a bunch of other things, but those leap to mind.

Edit: Wedges become more valuable because you can better afford to skimp on the actual Picking Locks skill when fewer total boxes make you less likely to run into the top end of your range.

[light gazelle]

LFM becomes more of a nightmare than it is currently.

[gritty folio]

imo, giant carrying capacity extends to far more than just treasure. how else would i carry all of these food baskets around??

[tawny pivot]

I mean, as someone who usually goes around with 350+ items, I agree personally, but I don't know if most people do that!

[lavish geyser]

Hmm - maybe things could drop slabs of crafting material? 😄 That'd be kind of fun. Not directly worth a lot of silver in terms of direct game injection, but if a crafter can turn it into something, that gets interesting as far as what it's "worth" without affecting inflation much.

[torpid tide]

Booo

Cursing everyone to just dropping slabs of crafting material is next level evil

[lavish geyser]

I'm not saying everything - I'm just floating as something which still justifies having a large carry weight and is potentially interesting without directly injecting a ton of fresh silvers into the game.

[tawny pivot]

You'd probably see a lot of it left on the ground.

[torpid tide]

Remove that word just and you might have an idea.

[lavish geyser]

If it's standard buyable stuff like mithril? Agreed. Eonake? Maybe a bit less.

[lavish geyser]

Fair, I meant "just" as in "simply," not "only."

[tawny pivot]

Wait, are you talking about forging slabs? That's what the smelters are for, to turn the weapons and armor we already find into slabs.

[lavish geyser]

Ah yes that's right. Forgot about those, since that is (I believe) an event item?

[tawny pivot]

Yeah, it's from Duskruin.

[lavish geyser]

Yeah, the thing there is that weapons/armor which get melted are "worth" 35k probably whereas the raw slab (I think) is not

But yeah fair enough. Just a thought that a loot overhaul could also provide a boost to the crafting economy in some fashion.

[tawny pivot]

I'm sure it could somehow. I'm so out of the loop on crafting that I just assumed there are like three new subsystems by now that somehow use things that could be described as slabs. 😂

[lavish geyser]

You're probably correct. I have no idea if slabs can be somehow converted to ingots/plates (for cobbling, I think?) or arrowheads, but that would also be pretty cool 😄 I'm not as much of a crafter as I'd like to be

[novel zephyr]

They are planning on increasing the exp per box picked, not sure how much. However, if the pool is basically mostly empty of boxes, it will be a race for pickers to pull each and every box that comes in. A picker could potentially sit there for 5 minutes or longer and not get a single job... meaning 0 exp. I hope that part is analyzed/simulated to make sure the disparity between casual pickers and bot pickers doesn't grow.

[tacit hinge]

I'm hoping whatever changes are put into place aren't so drastic. :🤷:

[jovial bough]

This is a good list. If solving the box pool is reducing the total silver generated in boxes by adjusting their drop frequency it should alleviate it and cause the mentioned result. Reducing total silver generated per account further reduces the spread from different levels of playtime and play styles. The purchase power of silver is always going to remain relative though and how to keep players engaged the entire month also needs addressed.

[spiral scaffold]

I know everyone has different play times, but I'd be interested to see what things look like with a weekly reset that coincided with Lumnis. XP boost, Resource, Loot Cap Reset (Gemstone reset? Adjust to a potential of 4 month).

I can only speak to my personal situation, but it doesn't feel fun playing the game the last week (sometimes two) of the month anymore. Weekly resets would alleviate that.

[lethal bolt]

Any pickers really! My bard makes his living picking.

[zenith bane]

Being loot and gemstone capped half way through the month is pretty bleak

[winged valve]

Because gemstones?

[spiral scaffold]

Nah. I was hitting loot cap before. I kinda just like the game.

[compact tinsel]

I agree 100% with the weekly concept. This is the way

[barren berry]

I will just argue the opposite which is it kind of adds another wheel that makes me feel like if I don't have time to play this week I can't catch up next week when I have more time. With stones I feel you get that one extra week to make up for it. I can sort of make up for resources by burning PPs. But Lumnis can be annoying. Similar to not burning brooch every day. I am likely in the minority but it also "feels bad" to miss those things. Edit: Let it be a cumulative weekly...maybe.

[compact tinsel]

Weekly limit, monthly pool for a catchup mechanic.e
Making this up, but....

5m loot limit per week, 20m per month (assuming 4 week months) - the loot limit builds, so if you only go 2m week 1, you have 8m available week 2
Lumnis follows the same (7k tripled, 7k doubled) per week, but they stack if you don't accomplish them (so 28k tripled, 28k doubled for the month).

I think that accomplishes what you said in your edit while I was typing it - letting it be cumulative

[torpid tide]

What if you miss the end of the month instead of the beginning???

[barren berry]

good point. We can start calling that Nisugi time like Nidal stones.

[torpid tide]

Oh but we also know loot cap is dropping to like 10m don’t we!

[compact tinsel]

I think what was shared was that it's potentially:
10m till soft cap settles in (lower than before) and the diminishing returns will be more aggressive, but there won't be a hard cap. So people can keep gaining all month, it'll just be really slow gains, resulting in less than the previous caps

[barren berry]

We don't quite know what that means other than "Silver generation from 0 to 10mil should have minimal impact."

[jovial bough]

Play Time should be a commodity that adds value

[torpid tide]

It does does it not? It provides experience.

[barren berry]

Generally speaking yeah. But if they are capping a commodity, then the value add is experience and experiences.

[torpid tide]

Silver is only one small aspect.

[compact tinsel]

Wyrom last week: The floor isn't being impacted that much, but there are some planned changes for how the volume of things happen. Loot cap will be changing, lowering the ceiling. The goal is to also remove hard caps, but increase diminishing returns for those that want to keep going. Loot found at events will not bypass any sort of mechanics anymore. Not all loot does, but some of the randomly generated loot does. It will all work on the same system. Locksmith pool will have a fee, as it was intended in the original proposal that never got implemented. Silver generation from 0 to 10mil should have minimal impact.

#1446966828239949834 message

Box quantity is being reviewed, but it would be replaced with more interesting loot in boxes. Experience would be adjusted for picking locks to account for lowering box quantities.
#1446966828239949834 message

Those are probably the most concrete things we've gotten so far. Which give a pretty good idea of what direction it's being steered.

That and it sounds like some loopholes are being closed where people were figuring out ways to bump passed caps... kind of wild. Wonder if they were using a F2P alt to skin creatures so they retain their value? I'm not familiar with F2P mechanics to that level, so not sure if that's what it was.
(Wyrom's comment on the matter was intertwined with F2P updates).
#1446966828239949834 message

[grave bison]

I think the loophole was duskruin gear. It did not count towards loot cap, it will now.

[cinder trout]

I guess during DR you need to powerfarm the first weeks then go to the arena later in the month.

[obsidian lagoon]

Well, or turn on BS instead of loot, since that's probably more compelling now.

[torpid tide]

Well what’s the difference between hitting loot cap from all equipment vs gems/silver/junk. I would have thought the garunteed chance of enhancive would be a plus.

[grave bison]

Duskruin loot is pretty much all junk now. They've lowered the quality of the loot time after time

[wet forge]

This isn't anything we did. Reading from the most recent, so if there are any other Wyrom-like questions I haven't read through. But the only change I see was enhancives when large volumes go out to not be fully charged. This wasn't just a Duskruin change, but nothing hits our random obj gen as hard as Duskruin did, especially in 2015. The only change I made to loot was pretty early in that it takes your level as a base and randomizes it to 100. Before it was just random 50 to 100, being level of loot. So lower level characters likely saw an impact for that, but I did that in 2018. I don't see any other changes directly. It could be an indirect problem with loot cap and going over loot cap though.

[grave bison]

That's good to know. In my experience, originally, I would find a decent enhancive every now and then, which made it worth the time to go through and sort the loot drops. But when the quality felt like it kept getting worse and worse, I switched to bloodscrip payout to save the time.

Maybe it's bias confirmation, but when I would turn back on the loot, I would still get junk, so I decided it wasn't worth it.

[cinder trout]

I have also experienced less excitement overall for DR arena loot over time but that could also be confirmation bias as I acculumated better gear....
2022: (finds +5 dex ring) this is awesome!
2023: (finds +6 dex ring) oh okay, not bad 🙂
2024: (finds +8 dex ring) meh, I will locker this for an alt 😕
2025: (finds +11 dex ring) what is this trash, not even a third as good my nugget'd +31 ring! 😠

[wet forge]

The majority of the loot rolls would always be non-enhancive jewelry or gear. We typically still see massive enhancives go out though. Or consistent ones. A lot of people don't take loot anymore though. Let me peek at August's run.

Almost 50% of people are taking bonus scrip now.

Less than 1% of people are taking exp.

[cinder trout]

Smart move probably take bonus scrip but this is a game about FINDING cool loot so my heart will always be with DR treasures

Also always cool to find a random 7x gear, crit padded armor, or mana staff for the alts

[wet forge]

Running through some logs quickly, I do see at least one 8x runestaff spawning in August. I see a lot of weighting/padded gear between 3x and 5x. I see some pretty big enhancives. But there are tons of entries to Duskruin. CLAIM alone does a ton.

[compact tinsel]

There have been one or two decently enchanted claidhmores go out each run too

[grave bison]

I have a script that will recall the item, and save the item based on set parameters. Each event it felt like I was saving less and less items, which always looked for the same set of enhancive boosts. +4 base at minimum.

[cinder trout]

We need the DR arena gemstone tie in, a 4th possible gemstone found ONLY in the DR arena

[grave bison]

I want an option for, if enhancive, keep enhancive, if non-enhancive junk item worth 5k silvers, get bloodscrip.

[shrewd umbra]

I went from finding enhancives almost every arena run to finding little to none across 8742094723 arena runs. Not talking about stuff worth keeping, just enhancives at all.

[wet forge]

I'll do some more silver searching, but in-game wealth hasn't dramatically increased. I read some comments about silvers being in the 100s of billions. This isn't the case. I'll double check with more recent numbers, but in-game wealth sits around 30bil to 50bil, which is a lot. I only can check active player wealth though, so you need to have an active account and actually log in. If you're someone who tries to hide your wealth, that's hard to find, but we do see things like coin hands. We can also see shop wealth, but it's not as intuitive as other tools. Have to go through them manually. Should be easy to fix once some other shop things are done.

The thing with increased wealth is stuff like CLAIM tripling or quadrupling in usage. I protect CLAIM and make sure we do it, I find it to be an important piece of our game economy. But it does impact the business in a lot of ways. With CLAIM though, all of our pay events are silver events. I use EG a lot as an example, mostly because I was a co-designer and lead for Feywrot era EG, but EG did about 500mil to 750mil in silver sales. Digging (and multi-game) added a lot back in. Silver valuation was already dropping around this time, but EG was our major drain outside anything extra. EG now drains between 3bil and 7bil now. Silvers clearly have more value now at events than they ever did before.

We also run auctions a lot more lately, though if we don't market them as a thing and they are part of another event, they get forgotten about pretty quickly. But we pull about 30bil out with CLAIM and other events per year. CLAIM also has more offerings than just the 4 events. The game also does an okayish job with draining mundane amounts of silver, but it's getting worse and worse every year because the influx of new silvers is too unchecked.

Methais also has single-handedly kept Simutronics in business, because he's spent $8,742,094,723.

[shrewd umbra]

That was $8,742,094,723 worth in monthly Simucoins

[daring narwhal]

Thank you for your service

[winged valve]

What about more random exp orb claims? Or like a 3 day +50% scroll in between events for a couple million?

People are always clamoring for more of those scrolls. Those scrolls are the best.

[grave bison]

Is the goal to continue CLAIM as the major source of silver drains or will there be other silver drains introduced? (Apart from a pool drain) Silver drains that provide a reward vs a penalty.

[shrewd umbra]

Selling orbs would clean up this surplus pretty quickly imo

[lavish geyser]

Fun fact - this would be a bit over 16600 years if each run takes 1 minute 😄

[pale ether]

EXP orbs for silver or some sort of experience for silver is the permanent drain we need.

Auctions and claim are too infrequent even if they do occur once per year or quarter.

We need something simple and straightforward available every single day without fail that is appealing to just about everyone for silvers.

Exp for silvers.

[wet forge]

We've run a few exp orb CLAIMs, they don't do a hefty amount in terms of quantity. Most people don't care to buy exp, whether it for SimuCoins or silvers.

Now, if the solution is to sell them for cheap, that serves no purpose.

[pale ether]

I think players tend to resell an indigo for 10 mil and a violet for 18 mil give or take.

I'd suggest a scale per month that allows anyone to buy a violet for 10 mil once per month, and then a second for 20 mil, and a third for 30 mil.

Or tie the cost to subscription level with a discount for premium and platinum.

[full zenith]

These likely don't sell at the rate that would be useful to the game though. Someone advertising a violet for 18m for 3 weeks to sell 1 isn't really a great drain. To Wyrom's point it seems like the price would have to be much lower but at a level where the game isn't comfortable selling them.

[grave bison]

I'd like something better than an experience orb as a drain.

Enhancive rerolling that isn't, reroll the entire enhancive. Single line enhancive reroll.

[pale ether]

It kind of gets lost everytime and I don't think we need to retype it as a caveat, but we need multiple things and not a single thing.

[wet forge]

The problem with GemStone is that our drains are typically with accumulating stuff. We have terrible drains through normal in-game mechanics outside mundane usage.

[winged valve]

Can you try one with one of the scrolls?

[wet forge]

I have.

When you don't see them come back it's because they did poorly.

[winged valve]

Oh! I wasn’t around then. My fault.

What about incorporating things like buying a rank of guild or artisan skill like Skyrim does? Costs like 250,000*the rank.

But shoot. It took me weeks to get the last 2 ranks for forging.

Edit: it’s “hire a trainer” or something in Skyrim

[compact tinsel]

A Weekly Extra Lumnis Cycle for 2m.
An extra 1.5m exp a year for someone who does it every week. (shouldn't break the game from an exp perspective)

[winged valve]

Yeah. I would out 2m a week for that. I’d stay broke. lol.

[obsidian lagoon]

I do think enhancive rerolling if done right could be a massive and semi permanent silver drain.

[compact tinsel]

Cost might need tweaked - but it encourages more playing. Helps people get their resources done too

[winged valve]

Like Diablo IV style? Where you can do it up to X amount of times on an item and reroll a slot randomly within the Sylinaar types with a new random (or not truly random based on something like character level) enhancive amount?

I spend ALL my resources on this in Diablo. lol.

[grave bison]

2m is too cheap. I could see 5m maybe.

[pale ether]

I have no clue as to the amount of labor involved to issue a claim for exp or what not, but you need an assortment of drains that's going to appeal to different players.

Exp for silvers
Enhancive rerolling for silvers
Enhancive charging for silvers
Fluff for silvers
Paid event entries for silvers
etc etc etc

At some point it seems like you establish enough drains of this type and you solve the problem.

I think it comes down to players not being able to plan because everything is a test, one off, or infrequent is a large part of the problem. If these things are freely available 365 days a year, outside of the paid event entries for silvers, then players could:

Plan & Save

And purchase as their schedule allows.

[full zenith]

wouldn't it double the resource pool? not that i'm against that using the lumnis set resets it i believe

[compact tinsel]

Yeah, cost probably needs tweaked, but there's probably a # in there somewhere that would get a decent portion of the population to buy in.

[grave bison]

Let's make enhancives great again and bring back Tier 3 orbs. And fusion jewelry.
1 slot for 1m
2 slots for 3m
3 slots for 10m
4 slots for 25m

Make the cost more aligned with the bonus the orb provides. So the bigger the enhancive the higher the cost to orb.

[compact tinsel]

yeah, not saying it's perfect - Hopefully a way to decouple that? Just spitaballin here

[tawny pivot]

I imagine that CLAIM boxes as a primary silver drain will go one or both of two ways post-changes:

A) The "silvers are worthless" crowd continue to buy them because "bloodscrip buys cool things and silver doesn't"
B) People who were buying tons of other players' claim boxes no longer buy them due to increased scarcity of silver
C) Both A and B, creating a situation in a few years' time where the A group wonders how the B group has so much more silver than them even after the changes (since the A group would assume that everyone buys boxes because "silvers are worthless," but the B group in fact doesn't buy them, the B group gets ahead by ~30m a year (assuming one box per event))

[compact tinsel]

Could also adjust the gemstone reroller to be silvers only... probably keep the same rates as today and I bet folks would pull that slot machine till their pockets are empty... Dust cost is the current prohibitive measure
This doesn't flood the market with gemstones either, becasue rerolling creates a greater binding

[grave bison]

Ew, the gemstone reroll is terrible. I've rerolled 5 times and every time it's terrible.

Until the system is better and lets you choose parts to keep it's a hard no for me.

[compact tinsel]

I'm not saying it's good odds, but if it's a silver sink Only.... i could see a lot of legendaries getting rerolled

[tawny pivot]

Rerolling would drain tons of silver if it had a property lock component.

[winged valve]

Or add a double lunnis cycle?

[winged valve]

It would drain a lot, sure. But like this is an RNG based game. Stop trying to take the RNG away. Sometimes you brick a great item because you get greedy.

But then when items start getting bricked, then can up the enhancive output from the loot system

[compact tinsel]

Probably just need to keep resources capped at 50 per week and the tradeoff is the lumnis schedule resets every 6 months only do the exp portion

[obsidian lagoon]

Except that would have a very fast falloff as people locked and rolled.

[shrewd umbra]

Rerolling is just paying for more RNG, not eliminating it

[tawny pivot]

Have you guys done the math on rerolling?

[compact tinsel]

The goal is to drain silvers. Not be sensible 😉

[grave bison]

You're not going to drain silvers if it's a terrible trade-off.

[cinder trout]

All the best silver drain ideas are direct competition to event stuff so its hard

[wet forge]

A lot of the changes needed aren't popular. And most would be nerfs. I'm just trying to keep things transparent. That's why silver faucet is getting hit finally.

For rerollers to work, the majority of rerolling has to be bad. In other games that do things like this, you might see 1 good roll out of 100. I don't think all of you would be keen on it. But it's still finite spending once you have everything you want.

[tawny pivot]

Yes, and yet somehow the objection is that it wouldn't drain enough silver even though it would continue to take hundreds of rerolls even with property locking.

[lavish geyser]

I'm going to be a little snarky here and suggest that group A maybe has a lot of players who have so much silver that the statement makes sense. And that they probably have enough alts and player services to maintain a relatively high level of income even after the silver changes. (I am skeptical that player services will adjust downward substantially over the long term)

[cinder trout]

Just bring out a year round silver HESS for automated stuff

[winged valve]

I know. Like in Diablo. But leafiaras idea was to lock the enhancive property but reroll the amount as I understood it?

What I was proposing was reroll the crappy property like swimming into something else

[full zenith]

Yea the math might be bad on rerolling but I do it anyway because collecting a million dust does nothing (although I guess I could just use it to buy quest EXP now) but the double dust deterrent is what keeps me reigned in because rerolling legendarys more than 1x a week is pretty brutal.

[tawny pivot]

Oh, I'm talking about Gemstones, not enhancives. Enhancive rerolling should also happen at some point, though. But I haven't thought about the math on that one or whether property locking is positive or negative.

[grave bison]

I guess I just don't understand why we can't have anything nice for silvers. It's really disappointing.

[wet forge]

How do you figure that. I mean, that's a weirdly loaded thing to say. Look at everything we've added and do for silver.

[grave bison]

Silvers mainly get you things from other players, or event boxes.

Yes, sure, there is an auction, every X years.

I don't want to gamble. This isn't a casino.

[tawny pivot]

I don't expect service prices to adjust very far downward either. But the demographic you're talking about usually falls under B, not A. Occasionally they might be a new group D, I suppose.

[wet forge]

This is getting to bait level hyperbole. Edging your responses out from being taken seriously.

[cinder trout]

All GS events convert 100% to to silver pricing and Simu relies on only subscriptions going forward!

[winged valve]

You don’t want to gamble… with fake money?

I don’t gamble at all in real life.

Video games? Sure. It’s a game. But ain’t nobody doing nothing deplorable behind a bookies for some text based silver.

[wet forge]

https://gstowncrier.com/?s=auction

We run more than one auction a year for years now. We try to market one as a "grand auction" of sorts.

[tawny pivot]

I think there are auctions very regularly, which is why I'm always surprised when players think they rarely happen. I literally plan around assuming that the next one is never more than a year away. In fact, I'm literally assuming that we'll see one in 2027, if not another one (after the January one) before 2026 is up.

Like... genuinely, I seriously believe they'll want to run another one relatively soon after the silver changes just to see how dynamics will have shifted since the January one.

[wet forge]

RNG is part of gaming.

[lavish geyser]

For someone who thinks that silvers aren't worth much, you sure keep a lot of 'em around 😉

[wet forge]

Most games don't have a good economy for in-game wealth, it's all converted to drops. So you grind out raid bosses of sorts and hope you get that drop. And then it goes further where the RNG drop chance is low, and the quality is harder to come by.

[cinder trout]

How about 1 DR is 100% silver based, or maybe silvers decay over time so spend it or lose it.

[winged valve]

I don’t like the DR idea (though I appreciate the outside the box thinking I just think it would keep people who aren’t super enfranchised in the game out of it, which DR should not exclude any player) but the decay rate idea would be like taxes or something you know or you just lose a certain percentage in the bank account overtime.

I got laughed at the last time I propose something like that

[lavish geyser]

Honestly, how many people can even seriously participate in the auctions? We've sort of seen the number for the bottom 95% here so part of the perception might just be that most people don't follow it as they have no real chance of being able to afford anything.

[tawny pivot]

Lots can, but the widespread community assumptions to the contrary keep widening the gap too. Even many people who could get something talk themselves out of even trying.

Just go look at the spreadsheets for almost literally any big auction over the past decade and see all the things that go for 50m, 30m or even 10m.

[wet forge]

The auctions do an okay job at drains, you can look at how they perform. Town Crier keeps a nice running total on the majority of them. It's just one form of drain though.

The game needs more, and we do more. CLAIM is by far the best one, but it comes at a pretty hefty expense to the company and GMs. Can argue the events wouldn't do as well without them, meaning no real net loss to GMs. We've added a lot to the game for silver. But things that need to be added have to be on the not so popular side, because we've spent my entire tenure as staff on adding more stuff side. And we're pretty packed to the brim.

[cinder trout]

Every ascension point gained now costs 1mil to allocate

[wet forge]

I started playing a game that does that.

It's pretty crazy.

[lavish geyser]

Which game?

[wet forge]

I don't want anyone stalking me in my down time!

[lavish geyser]

Entirely fair

[teal hearth]

How much claim event the last EG? It seemed really not worth it

[wet forge]

5bil.

[winged valve]

Wasn’t part of the issue the fact that the silver economy is all out of whack?

5bil seems good though

[wet forge]

There were 455 CLAIM in Prime after I fixed an issue, which record 3.4bil. And then 214 prior. No one could claim 2, it was just an issue with something with how Platinum operated and not needing it.

[winged valve]

Not the 18b from DR like a year ago. this never happened and I’m getting old

[wet forge]

Duskruin doesn't hit over 10bil.

Unless you're talking about both.

[winged valve]

Okay. Maybe I’m thinking of that violet orb one?

Edit: or I’m old and don’t remember shtuff

[teal hearth]

Weird

[wet forge]

EG was also over twice as better than any other EG to date.

[shrewd umbra]

Ah, I missed that part. Do both...reroll the properties first, lock them in when you find the set you want, and then you can gamble on rerolling the amount after.

Adding something silver based to speed up alt leveling would probably drain a lot too and have people leveling up alts that otherwise wouldn't be. Orbs apparently aren't popular but it doesn't have to be multiplier based.

[teal hearth]

I would have figured it to be much lower because of that but most people don’t pay attention and just do their own thing I guess

[wet forge]

EG 2025 outperformed EG and RW and RoL from 2024 combined.

[teal hearth]

I’ve only done 3 events so far but EG was the first one I wasn’t doing a claim for each of my accounts, it just wasn’t worth the silvers

[wet forge]

Single most successful run of an event we've ever seen compared to it's previous years.

[winged valve]

That’s… pretty amazing

EG did seem really cool this year.

Sock puppets… (I made mine look like Wyrom’s profile picture. Don’t tell Wyrom.)

[tawny pivot]

Definitely curious who was buying EG claim boxes. I can't even fathom it.

[teal hearth]

I bought lots of eg entries don’t get me wrong but I am talking about claim event specifically

[wet forge]

CLAIM GIFT did about 1,545, which is about what the gifts do. I say about because I had to fix the same Platinum thing but I didn't recall where it was exactly.

[full zenith]

wasn't the EG event claim the same as it was for DR? 25 entires + 2 use blue orb?

[grave bison]

I would have bought more had I known there would be property stuff auctioned

[teal hearth]

I would assume every active account uses claim gift

[tawny pivot]

I gave up even trying to sell my EG claim boxes since it seemed nobody was buying at cost.

[wet forge]

Nope, only about 60% use GIFT each run.

[teal hearth]

[wet forge]

We also only see about 55% grab their free SimuCoins. I should check that again.

[lavish geyser]

I did. I can even give you my logic. I have enough silver to buy basic things I need without issue, get my gear worked up slowly, etc. But I have nowhere close to the astronomical amount of silver necessary to buy really expensive gear. So getting something for my silver during EG was nice. Otherwise, yes it's mathematically better to sit on them, but when I have the (correct) perception that people at the top already make so much more than me, will I ever be able to afford the really expensive stuff? Doesn't feel like it.

[teal hearth]

That is a human factors issue

[wet forge]

Yeah, might be higher, my nice pie chart is gone. I'll see if I can get that report back.

Curious what made the EG CLAIM not a good deal.

[teal hearth]

Simucoin claim is super annoying to remember. I end up checking like 3 times a month

[lavish geyser]

It's just objectively not one looking at the currency:silver ratio. But that ignores dopamine and other factors. (BTW, I have no regrets, I just know that I could have purchased more shards secondhand from another player for the same amount of silver.)

[wet forge]

My numbers don't indicate it did poorly. It actually did better than previous EG by a big degree.

[teal hearth]

Is that because of more accounts in general?

[tawny pivot]

I strongly recommend reviewing past auctions. People regularly win things at 30-90% off what it would cost to create them at a pay event by simply waiting. All the whales who wanted 2018's newest hottest shiny in 2018 will already have it by 2026, leaving only the non-whales to compete for it. This doesn't happen at every auction, because some focus on unique or entirely new things, but it happens at a pretty good number of them.

[wet forge]

Yeah, we're still up active non-F2P accounts from 2019. I use that number because we had a downward trend that we no longer have. We're not at 2021 numbers anymore, but we're still in a great recovery era. Most games don't survive the sort of downward trend we had from 2001 onward. And not because people like me or the GMs don't care. But because the people who own us don't find the value anymore.

[lavish geyser]

Fair point. I didn't even mean auctions, just high-end 100M+ sales that fly around all the time. I'm just not playing in that range right now.

[grave bison]

Didn't you say you've been here for 4 months? It takes some time to get into that range. Some people never get there because silvers aren't important to them.

[cinder trout]

He hit lootcap in September hunting giant rats 22 hours per day

[wet forge]

So some CLAIM offerings I have thought about.

• Exp orbs with expirations.
• Exp scrolls with an extended expiration from what I offered last time.
• SimuCoin Store items each month in a bundle deal.
• Yesteryear GIFTBOX items and other free gifts. (we did this a few times, underperformed though for the effort put into it).
• Some new stuff made specifically for this along the 2020/2021 GIFTBOXes.

[tawny pivot]

Simucoin store items seem too risky to me. Then again, claim boxes in general seem too risky to me, but at least those encourage repeat purchases or maybe entice people with "I'm close enough to affording X item now that I might as well spend some Simucoins and get the rest of the way there..." kind of thinking. I like the other ideas, though.

[barren berry]

It seems odd to say pepole won't buy orbs , isn't that one of the reason they are no longer going to be available for $ as the vault? So why wouldn't they be successful for coins? Maybe just put them in the store for $. Using some old values the orb was being calculated at about $10 which was like 4m. Maybe we aren't supposed to talk about that but I know I certainly did that math and decided if I wanted the orb for that price vs 15-20m for an unattuned one. So I guess its that people buy them when they are "cheap". But someone did the math I think and to cap on orbs was dramatically higher than just capping in terms of "value" of the xp. So it seems like you could have a drain if it was 1m-4m but its not good for the game mechanics.

[cinder trout]

How about claim version of sonreeva ring where you have to put in money each year for something that keeps slowly enhancing an item. So you can always bank a 10-15mil drain annually for most accounts?

Maybe its part of the new quest system that ends with a nice reward for silver

[teal hearth]

If you put mechanical advantage items like the stupid potato and the coin sucker uppers I would buy them from a claim for sure

[tawny pivot]

The coin charms are about to go down in value with fewer boxes, though.

[cinder trout]

Issue with all the legacy giftbox stuff is it was offered for low cost or free orginally then comes back for like 10x the price

[sour drift]

Just want to share that if/when our owners cease to find value in the product, I hope they leave the door open to new ownership. The IP is so deep and meaningful. 🫶

[full zenith]

Some of it is cost, I think he put those out for silvers when the golem forges went out but they were pretty high in cost when separated from a claim.

[cinder trout]

Almost anything they do for silver drains is either going to step on the toes of company event money or increase power creep

[wet forge]

Attuned orbs is what I'm talking about with a limited of 1 orb per account. Those don't perform well. Unlimited unattuned orbs might do okay, but we'd have to price them above market value to not collapse the player economy.

[barren berry]

I don't know. I feel like anything we could suggest to drain silvers just comes at the cost of power creep and I just get the strong feeling they don't play nice together. Who wouldn't buy one of the high powered enhancives from like Black Swan to have +50 weapon ranks in 2 items. Even if temporary now people just have +50 weapon ranks easily and I don't think it plays nice. You can get them for just buying a quest orb and failing the quest. When Black Swan first came out you could choose a unattuned violet orb and some of us ran it dozens of times for $10 violets and they pulled those out of the prize pool quickly.

[cinder trout]

Unless I can pay 50mil for a GM to entertain me with RP for 30 minutes! That would be a true net drain

https://tenor.com/view/do-something-comeon-stickman-bored-gif-22722853

[tawny pivot]

I love the mental image this gave me of panic cancelling the violet orbs. 🤣

[teal hearth]

I think they pulled it because I was farming BSC runs for orbs to sell for silvers lol

[barren berry]

There was a reason we were running 12 people through privately almost as often as we could run it.

[tawny pivot]

If I'd been playing then and in the know, that seems like exactly what I would have done.

[cinder trout]

I heard they are going to sell "magical" seeds that you plant in your artisan farm and they sprout randomly colored RPA orbs

[lavish geyser]

Correct. And I by no means am expecting to be there. I think in total I’ve made around 55-60M since returning. I didn’t start running ledger til a couple months ago.

[grave bison]

That's pretty good for 4 months.

[lavish geyser]

I would agree.

[barren berry]

They don't perform well because even if I have 51 accounts I might only buy 1 or 2 but if you look at some of our simucoin purchase history I promise you we bought a lot more when it was available.

[wet forge]

Just because I'm a transparent dude. I just compared in-game wealth against a few recent days, we're sitting north of 50bil on people logging in. I did exclude anyone under 1mil silver in this because it's just easier to sift through the data. I'm guessing if everyone logged in with significant wealth, it would be close to 60bil, but that's just a guesstimate for all my quotes out there.

[wet forge]

Right, that's what I mean. We won't sell unlimited unattuned orbs.

[tawny pivot]

Believe it or not, that's almost enough to have bought T5 Mana-Infused armor (that would cost 676k bloodscrip at Duskruin) in lesser used armor bases during the March 2023 and April 2023 auctions.

[barren berry]

The simucoin vaults were account attuned and I bought plenty of them. Just saying.

[sour drift]

The good news is that if you get most of the whales to blow their fortunes at the auction, there'll still be something left for all us middle class folk! 😆

[wet forge]

Were you funneling them to a single character though?

[barren berry]

Yes.

[cinder trout]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-right-to-jail-right-away-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-gif-16177531 (self reported)

[wet forge]

Right, without the game mechanics abuse aspect, you're not buying multiple. We wouldn't have coded them to only be single usage per character if we wanted there to be a way around it.

[barren berry]

In fairness several people asked about it specifically because of that and were told it was "okay". That being said, this is about a drain and I am saying that it is possible we moved silvers for $ to move $ into vaults to use both the vault AND the orb. So it is possible we would just go right into account/character attuned orbs for silvers. This may or may not have ever happen.

[cinder trout]

Orb hoarding isn't efficient, you should look up my wholistic strategy for having atleast one character on your account at +50% experience scroll on almost every month of the year

[barren berry]

Do both.

[wet forge]

Yeah, no one is getting hit with a GMA or anything, but it was definitely sidestepping a mechanic that was created. We watched it and we had to pull it back after EG with enough notice. We try to be fair. If this was just a money grab, we'd just allow it. The vaults were meant to be a package deal to get into the events at the median spend. And then we offered some freebies on top of it to sweeten the deal. We were okay seeing a few people grab multiple items at first, but it went overboard by EG.

We do have some other projects in the works that has nothing to do with silvers or currency or anything like that. But once those are out, we can revisit maybe exp orbs again. Can't say much else right now. Maybe it's hype. Maybe it's not hype. Who knows!

[barren berry]

$10 family deal....seemed to work, even got me a large fry. Edit to add: It also was beautiful because Black swan was the same cost and rumor was it was one of the most successful quests for the time...just saying.

[wet forge]

I don't recall it doing well. We got this super angry email from the PM at the time about quests. I'd have to go back and look. @obtuse trail would remember more though.

[barren berry]

Oh Vanah knows....she...knows. She had to schedule all my runs!

[wet forge]

It made $11,970 over it's lifetime before it was converted to the nexus orb. This doesn't include refunds, which we'd get due to stuck puzzles. Most people just took a second run though.

[barren berry]

Yeah they pulled the orbs quickly if I recall and so why run it....hehe.

[wet forge]

FOR THE FUN!!

I enjoyed running it without clues, I did it was Tamuz. We had a good time with it.

[barren berry]

I think we started in May and by August it was nerfed for orbs and it had to be box office scheduled.

The prize pools were supposed to be changed/updated. There was a giant hubbub after the first few runs because of I think permanent heavy crit padding that caused some emotions for the price. Vanah will know.

[obtuse trail]

That's more than I thought. Does that include the original 1992 box office

[wet forge]

Hmm, let me look.

Looks like the 2002 run made $1,985. The OG one might have made $12,141, but I can't really see dates that far back. It's the very first event though.

[barren berry]

BSC was the bestest. Sorry for the offtopic non-silver musing. Vanah can lightning bolt me later.

[winged valve]

I would personally like to see the vault thing, or something like that, come back. but I'm a degenerate who doesn't understand the long term cost efficiency of just running my Lumnis brooch over multiple accounts instead of buying orbs for temporary gain.

[tawny pivot]

The violet orbs in my shop provide the best value in the game ||to me|| and people should buy them.

[barren berry]

Sometimes the efficiency is just to be DONE with a massive slog. I am looking at you first rank of transdest. I just needed to join the club so I could move on to a different goal.

[wet forge]

The vaults were just not created with the idea to buy multiple. They were priced as something special that you could get once. There is a lot more value in them over what they cost.

[obsidian lagoon]

Or mine, I'm priced like 1M less, even better value.

[lavish geyser]

If this is the case, could the special item please be account bound? (Or as I've mentioned a while back, could the anti-break verb change the item from character bound to account bound?)

[winged valve]

I totally understand why the battle vault faucet was shut off. I'm not disputing it, nor will I attempt to argue against it. Spirit vs. Letter of the law and the law was changed to reflect the spirit. No argument here.

I just hope for a future: "Hey degenerates, give us your hard earned cash and we will give you a violet orb at a reasonable price, oh and sure, here's some bloodscrip... keep the change ya filthy animal"

Call it the "Degenerate Loser Vault" and it costs like 3500 simucoins and has a 25 count book and an account attuned violet orb or something. Just throwing spaghetti at the wall here.

Edit: actually this works out to the same amount of bloodscrip per $1,000 simucoin bucket as just buying battle vaults for orbs. 300,000 vs, 420,000 of just doing books. Okay okay fine. I'll just put more into my Lumnis Brooch... But... ORBS, amirite?

[barren berry]

Ask Kontii for this high xp brooch vs orb spreadsheet sometime. It annoyed me

[winged valve]

@compact tinsel - hook a sylvan up?

[winged valve]

Wait... which way did it annoy you? The pro-brooch way? Or the "I need to play how many decades for it to not just be worth buying a violet orb from someone every other day," way?

[compact tinsel]

yes, will DM you, since I dont want to distract from the purpose of this thread, heh 😬

[winged valve]

Wait.. wrong one

[barren berry]

Having a 7x and 9x brooch and it being too much fun meant I had to move characters around to burn brooch if I got bored. Orbs allowed a lot more "I feel like" play time.

[compact tinsel]

I would totally be onboard with my lumnis brooch transforming into a weekly use orb that gives me the same exp feed

But we're kind of going down a slightly different, if not mildly adjacent rabbit hole....

Would be great if that weekly orb rub was a silver drain (see, now it's back to the topic!)

[winged valve]

[winged valve]

You pay 500k to turn your brooch runs for the week into some number of orbs.

Like, whatever the closest amount to the same amount of exp you have

[lavish geyser]

I'd be content with there being a BROOCH accountwide command and having the actual item be superfluous so musical lockers isn't required

[winged valve]

I'd pay lots of silvers for that ability. See? SILVER DRAIN!

[obsidian lagoon]

Family vaults are great.

[lavish geyser]

Completely agreed. But I'd still prefer not having to use it just to move the brooch around. 🙂

[wet forge]

Maybe we'll plan a day where we try to get everyone to log in with all their silver in banks and on them to see if we can get an accurate number. Saw a comment that someone has a bil silver, but they have it split between 5 characters on their single account. My numbers wouldn't account for that split and I'd only see the 200mil. Maybe if we can break the 1100 people online at once recent record we can even do some in-game reward for everyone.

[dark galleon]

<sharpens guillotine> when, exactly, is this billionaire gathering?

[tawny pivot]

Aha, so that’s how people hide silver. Offshore bank accounts!

[obsidian lagoon]

Oh so you only see the value of the account on the last character logged in? If so I feel like you’re missing many many billions.

It just occurred to me….do you count the floating event currency the same way? That would explain a lot.

[cinder trout]

Wyrom is going to accidently fat finger the analytics command and type "Dev_Cmd_GlobalBankTransferConsolidate" so all player silvers go to the GM bank (That's why the smart whales hid their notes in the locker!)

[daring narwhal]

real whales bury their notes in the backyard

[barren berry]

I invest in the diamond and emerald etf.

[winged valve]

Character.onLogin().siphonPerMillion(100000)

[torpid tide]

Why not just take 50m from everyone everytime they login! No sense punishing those that have been playing longer more than everyone else!

[rich imp]

Definitely appreciate the yesteryear items. I'd be interested in exp orbs and scrolls depending on price. I find current silver prices on orbs just way too expensive.

[snow lodge]

maybe an end of year Christmas claim box for one of those silver gathering trinkets again so I can pick one up on a new account with the option for other to break into an orb? Although I'm not sure how well that would do right before the auction.

[compact tinsel]

Could be a lever for a POST auction silver drain - kickoff the new year 🙂

If the overall goal is to drain the economy to get to a new baseline.... The auction will help drain heavy hitters, but some offerings like this would go a long ways to drain the general population.

Or post auction prize pile for a week!

[winged valve]

Okay, real question:

WPS smithy usually comes around the new year accepting silver. Any chance that its end date can be extended to after the auction is completed?

[winged valve]

Meh. Maybe never mind.

[lethal bolt]

I'm a bit surprised at this comment - I don't actually think Alastir is baiting or even using hyperbole. That is 100% what silver is mostly used for in my own experience as well. Even if you do an auction 1x a year - there are people that don't want to spend 4 hours in a tent hoping they can buy something.

Otherwise I use silvers to buy event currency to buy stuff. There is almost nothing I can buy from a vendor that is of value to me. Poison stuff is probably the only non-service (meaning to cast a service) item I can think of. Sorry! Mail too.

[torpid tide]

So there's not raffles? Merchants? Claim boxes? WPS? and many other things.
So yeah, saying it' sonly usable for two things is hyperbole.

[pale ether]

I think there’s quite a bit you can purchase from festivals throughout the year which was omitted.

[lethal bolt]

WPS is 99% event currency. CLaim boxes is me buying event currency. I can't tell you the last time I participated in a raffle and I don't go to merchants (i'm assuming your talking about like FWI merchants?)

[pale ether]

I think that’s fine if that’s all you’re interested in Oamir but players in general have many uses for silvers.

[torpid tide]

The I don't use them for that argument is very thin and doesn't mean they don't get use for that.

[lethal bolt]

If you're a mechanics focused person - and don't care about picking up cheap weapons/random clothing/fluff items...i'm honestly confused (or only looking through it from my lens which is a fair statement). Sorry! Obviously gemstone stuff too.

[torpid tide]

How you gonna unlock your gemstones without silver?
Enhancive recharging for silvers that's coming up in a few weeks?
WPS for silvers thats coming up soon?

People always selling event things in their shops for silver as well!

[lethal bolt]

Fair - but clearly players don't have ENOUGH stuff to spend their silvers on to be an effective drain. Adding EXP orbs would be awesome! or 50% exp scrolls for silvers.

[grave bison]

All of those are minor costs. I guess I should have specified high end, expensive, multi-million silver costs. (What is there besides gemstones?)

[lethal bolt]

I fell into the same trap.

[torpid tide]

It is very important to say what you mean yes.

[grave bison]

I'll try to be more specific in the future.

What can people with a billion silvers buy from the game (except for gemstones), that will drain their billion silvers.

[lethal bolt]

It feels like you just wanted to be right more than you wanted to contribute helpfully.

[torpid tide]

What?
I literally provided many examples that refuted the claim. Get out of here with your bias.

[cold inlet]

A fleet of Man'o'wars.

[lethal bolt]

I feel like the intent of Alastair's comment was easily understood. I'm not sure why you are saying I have bias...

[pale ether]

Wps and enhancive recharging are expensive imo. I think there’s plenty of expensive things that don’t hold value equally for all players.

[torpid tide]

Just like you couldn't see anything to spend silvers on?

[lethal bolt]

I don't spend silvers on almost anything you listed. Or if I do - they are not exactly draining my silvers.

[grave bison]

Man'o'wars is a high expense, I just find OSA boring so there's no value to me. I just want something I would value for the cost.

[torpid tide]

I didn't realize the game was all about me 😁

[lethal bolt]

Lets see - if I talk in generalities I'm speaking for people that I shouldn't be speaking for. If I speak for myself I'm being selfish?

[pale ether]

There’s a way to get your point across that doesn’t exclude every other opinion or insinuate those opinions are invalid because they’re not yours.

[torpid tide]

Saying there is nothing to spend silvers on when there is, yes. You could say there's nothing that I want to spend silvers on, then you're not talking in generalities. This is in reference the your initial statement that we've been correcting, not the times afterwards where you were like Well I wouldn't spend MY silvers on that.

[lethal bolt]

I agreed with Alastir's point. Which seemed clear to me. ANd seemed like people wanted to argue that you COULD, in fact, spend silvers. When it seemed pretty clear what Alastir meant.

[torpid tide]

That's why people should say what they mean, insted of inferring what you want from what they say.

[lethal bolt]

I have since agreed with your comment, Ruse, that I was very narrowly focused.

[cold inlet]

One of the big downfalls of OSA is lack of integration into the bounty system IMO. I think if there were similar systems for "regular" hunting grounds that leveraged the advantages that OSA has (private instance being the big one. Also predictable spawns and a final boss dungeon-like experience) there would be some buy in.

[lethal bolt]

I wonder if OSA ship prices will be tweaked when loot changes happen.

[grave bison]

It's too slow

[lethal bolt]

It is too boring (for me). I never wanted to run 100% bandits either.

[grave bison]

Someone could have asked though, what do you mean there's nothing to spend silvers on. And I would have explained, what high-end offerings are there, besides gemstones (which require a good gemstone) or OSA (which is boring).

[cold inlet]

Right, I didn't mean copy and paste OSA. Really what I'm suggesting is a hefty monthly silver subscription cost for access to an instanced version of a hunting ground - other mechanics the same.

[grave bison]

Why though, what are you going to get from it that you wouldn't get from normal hunting

[torpid tide]

I agree with Wyrom that the statement was a lot like bait. Gotta speak clearly. Especially on the internet where there is no inflection.

[grave bison]

This is why I stopped responding yesterday, people just want to accuse each other rather than find a solution for all the silvers.

I want something, that I value, in exchange, for the silvers I have. The game doesn't currently offer anything that I want to spend silvers on.

[pale ether]

OSA is cool to people that wanted a ship and wanted it for roleplay and you can level and earn loot on it.

It’s not for people seeking efficiency.

[obsidian lagoon]

I stopped responding because this conversation has happened like 1 billion times, and it doesn't seem to go anywhere and some changes may or may not happen which will likely not be anything any of us suggested anyway.

Which is ashame. Because there have been some good ideas in all the slop.

[lethal bolt]

So you just wanted to chime into the restart of the conversation that you stopped responding to yesterday just to explain why you stopped responding to it?!

[compact tinsel]

I hate that GIFs don't work in here....

Let's all be friends here fellas. We have a common goal. You're not each others enemies. Silvers are the enemy,

And we're all going to enlist Kaetel's Man-o-Wars for an invasion to take all the silvers.

[obsidian lagoon]

Really I'm responding to the side conversation about the conversation, not the initial conversation.

[pale ether]

Konti wants to get rid of all silvers is what I heard.

[lethal bolt]

Interesting. I'm going to have to process this so I'll probably stop responding to it...for now. (hopefully it is understood by Ufian that I am poking at him and not being serious.)

[wet forge]

I'm back.

[harsh flame]

Wow, is this the end of the road for my picker only rogue?

[torpid tide]

Just go to the east tower and charge less than the locksmith pool!

[harsh flame]

not if there are no more boxes!

[torpid tide]

Just imagine, less boxes, more experience, experience saturates with no cap( I'm making that part up). We could have locksmith fights to see who gets to pick the box

[compact tinsel]

Going to just post this here, as it was in another thread in another server!

The thing about the orb idea --- is that they could just be in a shop somewhere in each town, and adjust pricing as needed to drain silvers
no one buying at 3m per blue orb? Cool, drop it to 2.5m for a week, see what happens, etc...

All are purchaseable once a week:
Violet orb, 12.5m
Indigo orb, 6m
Blue orb, 2m
Green orb, 200k

[wet forge]

Okay, just to touch on the bait comment, I was mostly talking about this quote.

I guess I just don't understand why we can't have anything nice for silvers. It's really disappointing.
We have added a lot of nice stuff for silver over the years. And we keep doing it. Because I really care about the silver economy, that's why I spend so much time on it and making sure we are steering the game in a direction that doesn't make them useless. We've never just flipped a single switch and pulled a single lever and called it a day. I'm sure the GMs wish I didn't spend so much time focusing on this, because there is always a lot to do.

The thing with the upcoming silver changes is we've done a lot and we can't quite add anything new until we reduce the output of silver. Or else we just move the goal posts with likely infinite purchasing power with what is happening. The auction isn't a reset by any means. If we only drain 10% of silver from the auction, it's not going to change the direction we need to go. If those of you with deep deep pockets want to have deep deep pockets after the changes, you can. You can hold out, it's up to you. The auction is meant to be fun and a way to distribute items for those who accumulate silver.

We can discuss new things to add to drain silver, but it will come after. When we can measure things and see how the changes are going. It's going to be a release that we have to really monitor and see if we're getting the desired effects. I know there are ideas and lists. We've tried to incorporate a lot of them. Everyone has something they would like to see that might only impact them or a small group. Most people want to haggle with how much they want to spend on said things. The goal for staff is always to shoot for the majority though.

[wet forge]

Why would we start the pricing under the going rate in the current economy for them?

[lethal bolt]

Cause you're trying to drain silvers rather than shift silvers around would be my guess! And to slap those greedy orb hoarders around.

[compact tinsel]

Those prices were just an example.... genuinely, I dont know what the right price is. The cool thing about putting them in a shop, is that the price can fluctuate based on silver supply in the economy!
Need to drain? lower price.
Things are in a happy equilibrium? Raise price
Just have to make sure it's clearly listed that the prices will fluctuate!

Based on your comments earlier, they didn't do well at the prices that were used historically.

Just make them a "touch a button for the weekly benefit" instead of "heres an orb you can stash away for value in some other way"
So it's always character specific, and requires immediate use.

[wet forge]

Event currency is far more monitored. I see what goes out in exact numbers and what is spent. I might not know where the wealth may be, but I know how much is out there with some degree of error because when we started it wasn't monitored that well. Originally, TICKET was never to be shuffled around.

Oh orb sales didn't perform well, but they still sold. Just as an example here, since I'm going by what I last saw on Discord, a violet orb is 19mil. They aren't flying off the shelf at that price, but someone will grab it who wants it. That's the problem with exp orbs. Most people don't really care about them. Just the people who value exp gains to a point they'll spend part of their wealth on them.

[compact tinsel]

Feels like an easy thing to test though? no?

[barren berry]

Orb current market prices are because they are rare/hard to come by unattuned. We are talking attuned prices there, which I think is high IMO.

[wet forge]

I could test with CLAIM, not sure we're ready to test with weekly purchases.

[cinder trout]

Anyone thinking of buying an experience orb should just upgrade their brooch instead

[torpid tide]

And commit to logging in every day to use said brooch. Such a job.

[barren berry]

Yes, but also, no.

[wet forge]

Well, hang on a moment. If you're buying an orb from me at 12.5mil that is attuned or buying an orb from another player for 19mil to use, it doesn't really matter what the attunement is here, if in both cases, you're the one using it.

[compact tinsel]

Some folks would much rather spend generated in game currency on it instead of cash though. It gives them yet another arrow in the quiver for things to spend silvers on!

It would also encourage weekly play.

[full zenith]

It's also kind of hard to discuss what the right price would be without knowing where the loot cap falls and the impacts. Right now at 18m that's 51% of the cap for 1 violet orb. If the number people end up at is around 15m? 10m? That's a much harder sell since your recoup time is pushed out.

[barren berry]

There is a reason I may or may not have several dozen squirrled away that are attuned and I am selling my unattuned ones. If you take away the market and set it yourself people would stop buying unattuned ones until the price went down.

[lethal bolt]

This is a good point - people obviously value EXP as they spend lots of money on the brooches (well - seems like they are idk what the actual simu sales are) But also - I have silvers to spend - I don't wanna spend $100 cold cash to get a brooch.

[cinder trout]

Do we know how many brooches are in existence? How many 7x ones etc?

[wet forge]

I don't think I'd want to collapse the player economy in such a way for a drain that only recovers about 65% of the potential. Could be the wrong way to view this, but I've done this with other bits that has had a ripple effect across the game.

[compact tinsel]

Brooches and orbs don't have to be mutually exclusive. Some folks would want, and actually use both, consistently

[lethal bolt]

Would Simu selling exp orbs crash the player economy? It might crash the exp orb economy but...Simu got into the business of selling event currency direct which kinda killed the secondary economy for farming currency.

[cinder trout]

brooches are, "I know I am going to play this game for like 3-5 more years so I better just spend a boatload now and get long term benefit"
Orbs are I am bored need instant progress NOW

[full zenith]

If I can only buy 1 from you but I can buy 5 from random guy unattuned the unattuned has more value because of its ability to move. At least that's how I view it

[torpid tide]

He's saying that dropping the price just cuz wouldn't be good. Attuned, not attuned doesn't matter to the user.

[grave bison]

I'm not sure there is much of a player economy around orbs. Except during EG when you can generate a ton of them.

[wet forge]

Should we remove unattuned orbs entirely to change that marketshare?

[barren berry]

I think we probably also have to ackknowledge there was one player, no names, who was a very significant portion of the unattuned orb market, who i don't think is buying them now or is even playing.

[lethal bolt]

If it means buying attuned ones from simu for silvers...yes

[compact tinsel]

If someone bought one "violet RPA" push of the button from a shop, once a week, for an entire year....
They still dont even get one transcend destiny point of exp (TD ranks 5-10) value out of it.

and I agree with Alastir, I'd be shocked if the player to player orb economy was that big

[cinder trout]

I am always surprised how much demand there are for orbs

[wet forge]

Silver, keep them in events, and have them by other in-game means to acquire.

I think the demand is funneled to a smaller group.

[lethal bolt]

I really really value orbs for times when I need help getting my 50k resources for the week.

[obsidian lagoon]

Im just gonna say, there's no demand for orbs at 34M....yet.

[cinder trout]

Why would you need worry about resources, aren't you farming 22 hours per day like the rest of us???

[torpid tide]

There's lots of demand at the right price, it's just the two parties are at very different valuations on that.

[tranquil cypress]

I know i sold 12 of the un-attuned orbs from the last time they came out in the boxes recently for 16ish mil because it seemed that more people were just waiting for the events rather then buying them for more from me. I might have sold for less if I held out longer but the demand seemed to be lower then I expected when all future ones would be attuned at that point.

[lethal bolt]

I think it depends on the price that is set. I love orbs. I'd never ever ever pay 19m for a violet orb. 7.5m for the ones in the claims though...heck yea

[obsidian lagoon]

I know I bought a bunch at 16M and resold them at 18M

[compact tinsel]

Only 18 Zhagen. No need to embellish 😏

[lethal bolt]

I got alts, man! And people are forcing me to keep playing my post-cap rogue for gemstones!

[wet forge]

Well, the blue orb is essentially free, so I'm always down for free.

[compact tinsel]

Why force free, when you could snag a couple mil from all of us! 😬

[full zenith]

I knew wyrom was one of us, down for the free exp

[barren berry]

I am also down for unlimited free blue orbs.

[wet forge]

CLAIM and vaults are all about the freebies attached though.

[lethal bolt]

Well - Even if I couldn't sell the other stuff in the claim box I'd still buy the claim box for 7m/7.5 (I can't remember what they are). The value is there for the other items as well. And the orb is good.

[compact tinsel]

But alright, alright.... i'll stop fighting for a weekly RPA fix.

Just trying to conjure up some more silver drain ideas

[wet forge]

We won't be making any big changes to exp orb availability until after these changes are out if that is a direction to go.

[lethal bolt]

idk boss - I think the vault is valuable cause of the EXP scroll and 4x orb!

[wet forge]

I know this thread morphed into a lot of things. It was just about the auction until it got switched up to silver output. We always talk ourselves into the same circles on what we can add to the game, and then it seems like we get no where because we spend a few months adding a single thing that no one who suggests things cares about.

[wet forge]

Also free.

[compact tinsel]

yeah, that EXP scroll is like "an extremely addictive substance" for us

[lethal bolt]

I pay 6600 simu coins for my vault (or whatever)...idk what you mean by free! I wouldn't be buying the vaults if they didn't have the exp scroll and orb.

[grave bison]

I'll be honest, I don't care about RPA orbs. I think some people do though, and if it removes their silvers from the game on a consistent basis...

[cinder trout]

All the major drains are one of the following......
Subsidize P2W events - CLAIM
Direct experience - Orbs
QoL item - Vault items?, Future Locksmith Pool Fees
Power Creep Item - Gemstones, Silver Auction
Truly unique items - Boats?
What do players want more of?

[grave bison]

1. Orb Purchases

   Allow daily purchase of an account bound green orb for 100k silvers
   Allow weekly purchase of an account bound Blue orb for 2.5m
   Allow weekly purchase of an account bound violet orb for 15m

This was a previous suggestion by someone, and I think it's fair. (I think it was Kontii)

[wet forge]

He tried to skim some silver off the top!!

THAT DIRTY DOG!!!

[barren berry]

He is over priced.

[full zenith]

Merchants gotta merchant

[wet forge]

Since this thread has "stuff for silver drain ideas" in it. I'll bullet some of them and then I'll include them in State of Elanthia with some answers, to be fair.

[lethal bolt]

Also while i think auctions are great - the problem I personally have is I just can't guarantee myself 4 hours to sit in an auction tent without really upsetting the family. So while I have the money to participate in them...I also prefer buying things at set prices rather than bidding against people to a level I'm not willing to pay.

[inland zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/trueskhloe-gif-23962607

me every couple of days in this thread.

[barren berry]

everything post auction price matched woohoo

[zenith bane]

Re: the pool, I knew someone who capped a rogue nearly exclusively by picking. Their only hunting was to master Voln for reasons that remain unclear. This person was incredibly afk at all times. I began typing this 20 minutes ago but someone walked into my office ugh.

[full zenith]

Everyone likes getting things cheaper but if the market is willing to pay more than you then you weren't getting the item anyway

[lethal bolt]

Definitely worth the 20min delay...

[lethal bolt]

One/two persons does not "the market" make.

[torpid tide]

Well that kind of depends on supply

[compact tinsel]

I love the idea of BOOST's being purchased via silvers. (QoL items)

[barren berry]

Wyrom...is the market?

[lethal bolt]

Ok fair.

[grave bison]

As good as auctions are, it's a one-time solution to a problem. I would like to see systems put in place so we have long-term solutions.

[harsh flame]

Wyrom is the invisible hand that gently guides nudges slaps us.

[sour drift]

re: the pool. is it that one guy who logs in at 7:02a and logs out at 10:26p daily? Maybe there are a few 😆

[barren berry]

Bounty boosts would kill bounty vouchers. Last I think Wyrom mentioned it was one of the best selling items in the store.

[grave bison]

Bounty vouchers should be killed, they're terrible

[tranquil cypress]

Well i don't have the silver to purchase anything at the auction so I will sell my distraction services for you. For the low price of 10m silver/hour I will distract your family with novel stories so that you may attend said event.

[cinder trout]

All the faenor nuggets one can buy all year round at a silver cost! Right next to the reroller dude...

[torpid tide]

I fully agree there should only be bounty boosts!

[lethal bolt]

This is also what I was very roundabout trying to say. Auctions are a one time drain - if we had (what I consider) decent upgrades to the part of the game I like I could spend silvers on when I had the money I would value silvers more than just as a conversion to event currency or player services.

[barren berry]

Nuggies and swatches for silvers year round.

[cold inlet]

That hurts revenue though. That's bad.

[cinder trout]

https://tenor.com/view/mc-donalds-chicken-nuggets-good-food-fast-food-mc-donalds-gif-17929836280184883575

[obsidian lagoon]

Enhancive rerolling. I still think that's one of the top suggestions for actually draining silver.

[lethal bolt]

Yeah. I got nothing for that. Except they still get my sub fees!

[barren berry]

Eventually we will run out of silvers and have to buy BS.

[torpid tide]

Bring back GUB one time, for silvers! You can even require it have a S5.

[tranquil cypress]

Slot machines at the taverns!

[compact tinsel]

Not saying ALL of them have to be available, but some of them could make a lot of sense. here are the ones that dont seem like they'd conflict with other stuff sold

Item Superchargers:             Feels like people would pay for these! Not currently purchaseable through other means 
Gift of the Gods:               Feels like people would pay for these! Not currently purchaseable through other means (well, deeds kind of are)
Doubled Experience Boosts:      MOAR exp Please
Fast Exp. Absorption Boosts:    MOAR exp Please```

[zenith bane]

Anyone who hasn’t had the urge to reroll beaten out of them by the gemstones system deserves to blunder all of their silvers into dust rerolling enhancives

[lethal bolt]

No gambling!

[rich imp]

As much as I love them, I would never pay so much. I wouldn't pay over 10m...probably much less. I always think back to the bsc days where you could get one for $10. I can't understand the high silver prices on them except that is one of the inflated things bc of so much silver in the lands.

[obsidian lagoon]

I mean, it would have to be done right....

[tranquil cypress]

Nearly ever peice of loot is a gamble. Even gemstones!

[lethal bolt]

I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

[inland zephyr]

Which as has been my experience from interacting with gemstone players would be classified as "let me give it a middling amount of silver to make a perfect enhancive of my own design" and anything less would be uncivilized.

[cold inlet]

Agreeing on how to define "right" between long-term dev and growth stability vs players' insatiable need for immediate gratification has consistently proven difficult 😬

[tranquil cypress]

Wasn't there even a big gambling event where people wojld come and bet millions? Or like death?

[compact tinsel]

As much as I love this idea - im' guessing that would kill two MAJOR revenue drivers for them the last year or so

[cold inlet]

Dragon Bones

[lethal bolt]

Didn't they release another gambling? Tiles or something?

[tranquil cypress]

I remember hearing stories about it but never made it to any of them.

[obsidian lagoon]

Sure. I get that. But people still re-roll gemstones despite the terrible probability of improvement. People love gatcha mechanics and quasi gambling. (The also love to hate on them)

[torpid tide]

Someone's gotta win. ||Some would say I won with the mirror image, hunters afterimage, brawler thingy||

[wet forge]

• Consumables. Food buffs, temporary status effects, etc.
• Fusion. No one likes Fusion 2.0.
• Exp Orbs. I don't want to do much here until we see how things are going. Plus, maybe something else. Who knows.
• Enhancive Reroller. I don't think everyone will like RNG on RNG on RNG, but that's what it would have to be to work.
• Monthly community goals that involve a silver goal to be donated in some fashion to achieve gamewide perks.
• Monthly CLAIMS. Add a CLAIM that offers a bundle of SIMUCOIN STORE items for silver per month. Not big, but something. This was my idea, I'm allowed to put ideas up, right?

I forgot to hit enter.

[obsidian lagoon]

Fusion 2.0 is so clunky, and SO SO expensive to add to items.

[barren berry]

If they were priced properly it wouldn't act much differently than relying on some players with deep BS pockets buying them to resale at the higher silver price. Edit: I am tired of paying Kontii for DR stuff at a 10% silver market up after its over.

[lethal bolt]

Monthly community goals - they'd have to be some pretty big boosts to get me to donate any money to that!

[zenith bane]

I like the monthly community goals idea a lot.

[grave bison]

What is that list?

[wet forge]

The list over the months/years I have written down.

From suggestions here.

[cinder trout]

It would have to be some sort goal per player and your community reward is multiplied by your % contribution

[grave bison]

Of things you would like to do?

[wet forge]

Suggestions.

[inland zephyr]

oh i totally agree there's an accurate middle ground and gemstones are probably too much rng (i swear to god if i find one more moonsedge gift of enlightenment) as an example, and there's some kind of point where it's good enough. Just in general we see this a lot where players are like "yeah this is fine" and then when they don't get what they want with minimal effort have a meltdown so i like, totally get gms NOT doing that.

But i think there's an alternate timeline where we just got real ascension and enhancive rerolling instead of Gemstones and i wonder what that looks like 😄

[harsh flame]

monthly community goal that changes the world somehow or gives unique perks to participants would be great. shouldn't just be limited to a silver sink

[obsidian lagoon]

Real Ascension, I'd pay for that in silvers.

[grave bison]

I would personally love to see, and would save up and pay for Fusion 3.0

Tier 3 orbs again, cost is related to bonus.
Fusion JEWELRY that can be unlocked like gemstone slots with escalating costs.

[wet forge]

I can say that list of stuff is all stuff we've worked on in some manner already. Or have ideas for them.

[cinder trout]

Crowdfund GM work projects with ingame silver community goals

[wet forge]

Maybe not a 1:1 ratio of the idea as I shared it, but parts of it.

[harsh flame]

localized faction reputation quests to build up faction rep that costs silver! rebuild the gigas villages!

[cinder trout]

No 750 for you! until 1,000,000,000 silvers

[inland zephyr]

honesly do people even care about fusion anymore? Like, i was a pretty big fusion revamp apologist cause it was kind of oppressively good so i get why it was changed then we kinda just released nuggets that accomplish the same thing but without eating your weapon/armor script slot so like... aren't nuggets basically fusion 3.0 already?

[wet forge]

It just comes up a lot to this day. I know Auchand and I spoke about it sometime recently.

[torpid tide]

Sounds like it's time for a Fusion Classic.

[lethal bolt]

If fusion wasn't a worse form of enhancives I'd be interested in it...but I hate enhancives and their upkeep so idk.

[cinder trout]

They should do GM RP sessions (family friendly) for like Xmillions per 30 minutes

[lethal bolt]

Nucky was JUST speaking about that on EE....oh - I didn't see the family friendly...or I did and ignored it.

[grave bison]

Gross

I have a full set of enhancives already that max every important stat I care about. I just think an actual fusion system (with jewelry up to 4 slots) that we could manipulate would be fun.

[harsh flame]

i really like the community goal idea though (said while i'm flying halfway across the galaxy in elite dangerous to receive my reward for the last community goal)

[cinder trout]

You can pay 25mil for a GM to instantly scriptcheck any player 😝 (irregardless of the outcome)

[grave bison]

How much can I pay to permanently mute someone on discord

[lethal bolt]

Why do players look for ways to spend money when you can already achieve that for free?!

[cinder trout]

Overall lifetime posts X 50k silvers

[compact tinsel]

for 1 mil, i will screenshot and show you where the block button is.

[grave bison]

I want everyone to benefit from the peace and quiet.

[cinder trout]

So selfless....

[obsidian lagoon]

I feel like that's not going to go well for you...

[compact tinsel]

Back to silver drain ideas....

Bring the invoker back to each town, make it a silver drain service. 25k for Non Premium players
Keep it at 10k in Mist harbor for premium folks (I think it's 10k? right?)

[cinder trout]

How about an autotrainer? Like you go to some new fangled guild where you "drop off" your character for like X silvers per hour and they get normal experience gain (no treasures) while this NPC trainer is working them out with no need for player to input any commands. Limited hours per week/month.

[inland zephyr]

Finally a way to get experience while AFK in gemstone.

[cinder trout]

RP-wise you are paying a professional to teach you lessons you would learn in the field during combat

[teal hearth]

If RPA's and exp is sold for $$$ like it or not eventually RPA's will be given out less freely for roleplaying because RPA's wold be seen the same way as CLAIM EVENT is seen as a loss of revenue in exchange for the silver removal.

Can you give us the numbers for GM awarded RPA's by the multiplier over time? I bet it has went down in the last ten years significantly since they've become much more of a commodity.

[wet forge]

Some silver drains that don't really do much these days.

• Enhancive Recharging. Does about 250mil to 500mil.
• WPS. Last few haven't taken much anymore.
• Delirium. It gets run, but no one is buying much when we ran it.

[cinder trout]

How about combat pets that get stronger the more you spend (in silvers) for ingame treats but if you go 1 month without feeding them they die. Same with cute RP pets.

[inland zephyr]

Permanent lightening/deepening NPC so we can stop stockpiling 50 trillion colored notes, or just sell the notes without the event hoop

Actually let it work to "epic" (i.e. down to 2 for cloak, 0.5lbs can remain a special little boy) lightening. No i'm not mad I paid for epic deepening on two 6 lbs cloak before notes existed.

I imagine this wouldn't be much over time but it's something

[lethal bolt]

Just what we need - all that extra space for...well...the occasional box!

[rich imp]

As long as we are spit balling...maybe a new pvp area where you can play as a critter. You can get in for the day with a token for silvers.

[inland zephyr]

i have 4 extra lbs for encumbrance for no reason but i'm too lazy to change my cloak. take my 100k

[zenith bane]

I do wonder if the 30 day potions suddenly become sort of pointless post loot changes. Good thing I just chugged a year’s worth 😵‍💫

Nerfing box drop rates is a stealth small race buff!

[cinder trout]

Diary "My satisfying life as a Roa'ter"

[lethal bolt]

This can't stand! Cancel the loot rework!

[inland zephyr]

except now the boxes will be exciting and have 100k coins and you won't be able to pick it up because that is 1.3 halflings

or i guess 0.8 lings

[zenith bane]

Remove the body weight limitation and allow our characters to train deadlift

[lethal bolt]

isn't that porter?

[winged valve]

No. I think the wooden coins are great during EG. and the whole reason I fish. lol.

[teal hearth]

This was planned at one point, I can't remember what GM was working on it, and I assume it isn't happening but I recall a play as a monster game mode being teased.

You got to play better monsters if you killed players or something.