#[Duskruin] Battle Vault Special Item -- Greater Felcour Gauntlets

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

hard totem
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When February's battle vault goes up for sale, it will include in it a pair of gauntlets known as the Greater Felcour Gauntlets. These are fashioned after the original Felcour gauntlets, with some special features unique to these!

In addition to THROWing down a gauntlet in front of someone to challenge them to a duel like the original gauntlets, you can WAVE your gauntlets at your opponent. This will set up a magical portal -- the challenger and opponent will be taken to a fighting arena if they go through it. Everyone else will be taken to a viewing room.

These arenas work off the same mechanics as the flotilla and Festival of the Fallen arenas. The portal leading in will stay up for 15 minutes -- so you and your opponent can go back in as often as you want during those 15 minutes to keep fighting.

You can use this option four (4) times a day. This resets at midnight server time.

With the initial release, you have two themes for your arena -- a black sand arena and a shipwreck arena. An upcoming expansion will include a way to get multiple other themes. You can use the WHISPER function to select which look you want for your arena and viewing area.

These gauntlets are handworn, using the fluff slot. You can THROW and WAVE while holding or wearing.

REMINDER At this point, these are only available through the battle vaults for February 2025's DR run, with no plans to release in other ways. And if they just aren't your thing, you can BREAK it and get an account-bound EXP orb just like previous vault options. The gauntlets are character-attuned to the person opening the vault

Forum Link for Discussion: Here!
Wiki Link: https://gswiki.play.net/Greater_Felcour_Gauntlets

jovial briar
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Sounds grand!

hard totem
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The wiki page is a work in progress. It's completely not formatted properly, but I want to throw up as much info as I can today and tomorrow, then our wiki magicians can make it pretty

sharp ravine
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I have the original felcour gauntlets.

onyx horizon
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neat! if I have an old battle vault still in my simucoin undelivered bucket will it auto-update to include this?

night tusk
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Nifty sounding

candid lotus
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all i can think of as i read this

hard totem
jovial glacier
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Does this arena have all the strange spell restrictions of festival of the fallen?

hard totem
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AFAQ (Anticipated Frequently Asked Questions)

  1. Yes, the original Felcour gauntlets may get some updates at some point as well. No, they won't have an arena option. This is unique to the Greater Felcour Gauntlets
  2. Yes, you can BREAK it to destroy the gauntlets and get that EXP orb if you really want it.
  3. Yes, Greater Felcour gauntlets will get some additional expansions. Possibly some this run, and definitely some for August
  4. No, there are no plans for Greater Felcour gauntlets to be available outside February 2025's DR battle vault
  5. Planned expansions include: panels you can get that will add different arena themes, extra fluff verbs, extra times/day to use WAVE, extension of each WAVE's time --- there is no additional information yet as to when/how this will be done
  6. Yes, you run the risk of losing things if you put them on the ground. When the portal closes, everyone in the arena and viewing area get returned to where they went in.
  7. The settings on the gauntlets for rules and reasons are purely fluff at this point -- there is no way to make sure the arena knows you want to duel to first blood only.
  8. Yes, it's the exact same as Festival of the Fallen and the flotilla -- these all run off the same coding under the hood for the arenas, so the spell restrictions remain the same. This does mean though that if/when those get updated, these arenas will get it as well.
  9. Yes, the gauntlets are character-attuned to the person who OPENS the battle vault
  10. WAVE LIMITATIONS: You cannot use this in rooms that block teleportation or magic. You cannot GO through the portal if you are in combat or injured.
  11. This only allows 2 people in to fight. Sorry, no groups at this time!
  12. When you are knocked unconscious, you are teleported out of the arena and back to where the portal is. You are automatically healed.
  13. If you are NOT in a room that is considered by the system to be in town or near town, then there are some restrictions in place. In the viewing rooms, you won't be able to give, exchange, or drop anything. In addition, you won't be able to disarm boxes, pick locks, or do magic. No one will be able to go through the portal injured either. These restrictions do not apply if the portal sets up in a room that is in town or near town. For the fighting arena combatants, and this change applies to all fighting arenas using this system (Festival of the Fallen, the flotilla, etc), you can no longer disarm boxes or pick locks, nor can you drop, give, or exchange anything.
hard totem
hard totem
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jovial glacier
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you anticipated well

hard totem
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And what with there being a lot of moving pieces to spell changes...it's something that's been asked for 🙂

rich oak
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are the gauntlets themselves bound to the purchaser?

hard totem
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Yes

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the orb you get if you choose to destroy them is bound to the account

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but the gauntlets are bound...well, let me ask if it's the purchaser or the one who OPENS the vault

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it's however all the others like this worked

south tree
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Fire.

rich oak
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I think its the vault being opened, because there was lots of trading of the vaults themselves
And agreed, great implementation of expanding dueling and making it more available.

lavish turtle
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Pretty cool item! Sounds like a lot of fun to challenge people to duels

tardy heart
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That's fun!

hard totem
south tree
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Are these gauntlets account bound?

odd hamlet
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Oh, orbs, I like orbs

tardy heart
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Now there's no excuse for an official arena in KF!

Wait, we have to choose the orb or the gauntlet?

neat glen
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nice, should be called the ycelacie gountlets

hard totem
hard totem
south tree
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But both characters don’t need a gauntlet, just the person creating the portal?

hard totem
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if you don't want the gauntlets, you can BREAK them to get an orb.

hard totem
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but the more people with gauntlets, the more you can keep the party going

tardy heart
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I love this.....but can we still get an actual arena in KF?

It's been one of the asks I want.

hard totem
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This is not the venue to discuss KF, sorry.

south tree
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I love this. Super creative and fun. And now I understand the event art. Spoiler there the whole time.

neat glen
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yea I like it, this is the neatest special item we've gotten to date

hard totem
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Yay!

tardy heart
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Do you get dispelled in this arena?

vivid patrol
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This is really neat, Xynwen!

hard totem
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I have been so stressed for MONTHS over this item. Not just thinking about how to code it, but fretting over the emotional burden of coding the battle vault item, lol

vivid patrol
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Is it sort of an "ok you're instantly able to fight!" sort of thing or does it "activate" later? If instant, I suppose it's just up to the duel participants to agree on when to start?

hard totem
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so when you walk in, you are immobilized, and then the other person comes in, and is immobilized, and then an announcer starts yelling at you and counts things down

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and then voila, not immobilized, and you can fight

vivid patrol
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ah ok got it, cool

hard totem
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This is all based off the original Helden Hall thing. GM Kynlee did a ton of work about 10 years ago to make a non-Helden "mobile" version that we use for everywhere else

vivid patrol
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Narrator: And then Erek suddenly learned how to immobilize someone for up to 15 minutes. Never go into the portal when challenged.

hard totem
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And let me tell you, reading her code got me all kinds of weepy and laugh-y because her sense of humour in naming things for her scripts was so clever

south tree
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Ok, I’m assuming the answer is no, because it would be an insane lift, but is any of it customizable?

hard totem
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Like, the announcer stuff....on the GMside is called CHAUCER...a la the Knight's Tale.

vivid patrol
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"The rock! The hard place!"

hard totem
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However, we'll have some collectible panels you can use on your gauntlets to unlock different room themes. And I'm toying with a way to do a custom room design, but it would be a rare service and need QC.

barren island
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Shoot, now people will actually be far more prepared next time the Festival of the Fallen comes around. 🤣

(Must have a set anyway.)

south tree
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What made you decide this was the direction to go? And is there anything else you’d like us to know about its history or lore?

ionic axle
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Are the Vault Gauntlets Attuned? If so, which?

vivid patrol
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(starts thinking of all sorts of creature feep ideas...)

hard totem
# south tree What made you decide this was the direction to go? And is there anything else yo...

I've owned the original Felcour gauntlets for years, and I've always wanted to do something with them, so I came up with this as an idea for maybe unlocks, but then battle vaults happened, and we're like....ooh even better, let's make a special version for the 10th anniversary.

And I will have a loresong added, but I ran out of time, and I didn't want to throw a bunch more stuff into QC last minute. That loresong will explain why you get magic portals that lead you to weird areas!

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And of course, why they are FELCOUR

hard totem
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mossy trout
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Is there a way to disable the option to BREAK the gauntlets to prevent accidental destruction to an exp orb? That would be my one ask. Like another VERB trap to make the item perm and non-BREAKable

digital zealot
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Are these hand worn functional?

mossy trout
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I'd hate to locker these, come back after 5 yrs, start going thru my stuff and doing something like ;testme on an item which tries a number of different verb traps and accidentally destroy this and have an exp orb in it's place.

digital zealot
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I think it asks you to confirm your BREAK command

odd hamlet
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The golems did with a big monster bold warning, so I would assume the same here.

hard totem
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You have a big confirmation and have to do it twice, yeah

mossy trout
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Still would prefer a way to lock in the item to be permanent for my dumb natured self and accidental PnC confirmation in error

hard totem
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But I can look into adding an option to like POKE it and change a setting so you can't break it

south tree
odd hamlet
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I mean, how many times should you have to be saved from yourself really?

mossy trout
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Never know when the cat will accidentally walk on the keyboard/mouse and cause an accidental confirmation/clickaroo

odd hamlet
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That sounds like the sort of esoteric coincidence I wouldn't waste time coding around, but sure.

hard totem
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While I totally agree that we can go TOO far in trying to save people from themselves, in this case, we are talking about destroying a special offering permanently, and the fix to make it so you can't do that is pretty easy.

Now, the same situation could accidentally permanently lock it when you didn't want to...even with a confirmation requirement.

I would say though, it would be better to accidentally lock it from destruction than to accidentally destroy it.

#

Since it's also a fairly easy add for this particular script, I've whipped up some code to do just that. It has to be reviewed, so no promises it'll be ready before the battle vaults go live, but it should be pretty close.

torn anvil
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Will all the gauntlets look the same out of the box?
Can you wave them at yourself to enter the arena alone?

proud frost
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My first thought was, “Ah, neat but probably not for me.” Then it hit me: MOBILE NALEA BRAWL ARENA! 😍

tulip coral
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dang Im gonna feel really bad at smashing these to pieces to get an orb.. I may.. not.. even do it? 🥺

digital zealot
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Throwing the gauntlet: does this enable you to duel in the room the gauntlet was thrown (without town legal penalty)?

Can the worn location be altered(pin)?

dusk lintel
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Fun item! Can you allow teams at all? Or it it just two competitors and the rest can view?

Also, I expect it will take less than 5 minutes before someone throws one of these down inside the Helden pit DogeKek

tulip coral
digital zealot
tulip coral
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oh I see -- hmm I suppose I dont know then 😅

steep jewel
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Nice, 2025 is the year of PvP, lets take out our anger and settle our beefs in a constructive manner!

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Also, what happens when you die in the arena, does it spit out your corpse through the portal?

potent aurora
nocturne marlin
hard totem
hard totem
hard totem
hard totem
south tree
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Can you speak to any rooms which will be ineligible to create the portal? I'm assuming you cannot open a portal, for instance, in wyrmreach? Any issues on ships?

hard totem
hard totem
hard totem
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(I've also updated the pinned FAQ with some of these answers)

jovial glacier
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Is there a time limit on the fight?

hard totem
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On the fight itself, no, but after 15 minutes, the portal self-destructs and kicks everyone out, including the fighters. So you can't take more than 15m for one fight. But if you finish sooner, you can go back in and keep fighting -- it doesn't kick the viewing people out until the 15m are up.

If a fight finishes, the 2 combatants are kicked out of the arena, and they can go back in and fight again and again until the 15m are up.

jovial glacier
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Fifteen minutes.....I think that will work. I like to start all my duels with a rap battle then a dance off and then an actual battle.....can probably squeeze it all in...

steep jewel
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what happens if multiple people initiate this in the same room? Multiple portals to all different unique arenas?

potent aurora
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ROYAL RUMBLE!

hard totem
steep jewel
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Is it one single arena or unique instance per portal?

vivid patrol
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Inserts "Battle Royale" all entries are combatants feature creep idea!

steep jewel
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Can it be used outside of town?

vivid patrol
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Zhagen's question has me thinking... How many arena rooms did you have to create? Seems like there could be a lot of these duels going down at the same time.

hard totem
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It works anywhere that doesn't block teleportation or magic (or already has a portal in it)

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When you set up a portal, it finds an empty room within a designated set of rooms, and then sets up the arena and the viewing portal. So those 2 rooms will be unique for your portal/fight for your 15 minutes.

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Right now, I've got 200 rooms created, so 100 concurrent fights could theoretically be happening.

jovial glacier
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Is there a cool down?

vivid patrol
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What happens when you run out of rooms because everyone's kung fu fighting? 😄

hard totem
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It tells you there are no rooms available!

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No cooldown, per se, but you can't create another portal while the existing one is up.

jovial glacier
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This is amazing

hard totem
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And also, you can only do it 4x/day, and it resets at midnight

vivid patrol
hard totem
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(a future available expansion may look at more times per day or longer times up or both)

south tree
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Can you have more than one gauntlet?

hard totem
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You can only redeem one battle vault per character, I believe, which means you can only get one gauntlet.

jovial glacier
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4x a day is pretty good ,really need that hour long time limit for the real gnomish debates though.

There is a lot of potential here I think....I imagine a play magically transporting the audience from one scene to another.....

Or a controlled magical demonstration that accidentally ends in death....

proud frost
tulip coral
hard totem
tardy heart
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Do both folks have to have the gauntlet?

south tree
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No. Just one.

tardy heart
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Yay! Also, the Freemen and Freewomen in Kraken's Folly are setting up the Kraken Fight Club.

Yes, the initials are KFC, no there's no chicken involved, save for teh wing stand.

hard totem
digital zealot
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Can the portal be opened anywhere?

jovial glacier
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#1336885301834022962 message

rich oak
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hello, to whom it may concern, can we please discuss the integration of the Dream Fire scenary panels into these gauntlets to allow people to fight in whatever room they would like or can capture with dreamfire?

little nacelle
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or if not that, can we GALD up a room and viewing room to fully suit our street fighter dreams? I saw mention of new rooms added maybe as panels, but wondering if we can go fully custom eventually

hard totem
rich oak
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no worries, thank you!

hard totem
# little nacelle or if not that, can we GALD up a room and viewing room to fully suit our street ...

I already mentioned this somewhere above, but you cannot GALD a room because it requires QC. However, I do have it on my list to look at having some rare opportunities to create your own room like that, yes.

No ETA and no promises that we'll get to the point where you can design your own room, but it is already on my list. Just know if we do, it will be a rare, delayed service because of the need for QC

little nacelle
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contest wins choice would be fab, as that's really the only way I do GALD anyway 😛

proud frost
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And now I am envisioning a “sleepover” arena for pillow fights.

hard totem
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argh, don't remind me...I have to modernize pillows still

rich oak
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fluff, fluff the pillows

proud frost
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My custom arena can wait for modernised pillows.

cursive knot
proud frost
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GENIUS!

cursive knot
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She's gonna hit ME with a pillow if I keep feature creeping. 😂

proud frost
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I’ll see you both in the arena. I’ll be the one with the popcorn.

hard totem
# 
To set the reason for your duel challenges, WHISPER MY gauntlets REASON (reason), where (reason) is either murder, justice, theft, contest, sport, or honor.
[REMINDER:  Reasons and Rules are for roleplay purposes.  Arena-based duels will always be to unconsciousness, unless someone SURRENDERs during a fight.]
>whisper my gaunt reason justice
You turn the jeweled cuff of your right gauntlets until a winternight sapphire gleams at its center.  You have set your duel reason to justice.
>whisper my gaunt rule
To set the rules for your duel challenges, WHISPER MY gauntlets RULE (rule), where (rule) is either death, stun, pain, or blood.
[REMINDER:  Reasons and Rules are for roleplay purposes.  Arena-based duels will always be to unconsciousness, unless someone SURRENDERs during a fight.]
>whisper my gaunt pain
To access WHISPER settings, please use this format:  WHISPER MY (ITEM NOUN) (REASON, RULE, ARENA).
>whisper my gaunt rule pain
You turn the jeweled cuff of your left gauntlets until a shard of diamond gleams at its center.  You have set your duel rules to unbearable pain.
>l my gaunt

The jeweled cuff on the right-handed gauntlet shows a winternight sapphire at its center, indicating an intention to duel for justice.  The left-handed gauntlet's cuff has a shard of diamond prominent, indicating a duel to unbearable pain.```
jovial glacier
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haha
Is the to the pain really an option? That is chefkiss

hard totem
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Yep, lol

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It's part of the originals too...so all Ozias on that

hard totem
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These gauntlets use different gems though

hard totem
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I'm updating the FAQ to include this, but I did want to give some more info on the "where can I use this" situation. If you are NOT in a room that is considered by the system to be in town or near town, then there are some restrictions in place. In the viewing rooms, you won't be able to give, exchange, or drop anything. In addition, you won't be able to disarm boxes, pick locks, or do magic. No one will be able to go through the portal injured either. These restrictions do not apply if the portal sets up in a room that is in town or near town.

For the fighting arena combatants, and this change applies to all fighting arenas using this system (Festival of the Fallen, the flotilla, etc), you can no longer disarm boxes or pick locks, nor can you drop, give, or exchange anything.

And no one can go through the portal at any time if they are in combat.

vivid patrol
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you won't be able to give, exchange, or drop anything - Feature creep idea: Ok we need a betting system as a future update! 😎

hard totem
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portal-within-a-portal leading to conquest wheel or dragon bones

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betting on fights though would be fun

vivid patrol
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or something simple in the room script like BET X on <Player> with some simple odds. The trick would be to not create money with this, but rather use a pool among the other betters to win from. (Edit: Reduces the possibility of scamming the system and throwing fights, etc.)

hard totem
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I like it. I need a betting-minded coder to look at doing this for me some day, lol, because it would probably make me cry to try to do this, lol

coarse scaffold
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Any possibility of borrowing code from the current betting games? The Albatross ship had a bunch. Is it still docked at FWI? Would need adjustments, I’m sure

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Something like a betting table in the viewing room, a table NPC, and then some link to the outcome of the duel if it’s X, Y, or Draw/Forfeit

hard totem
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Possibly, but most of the betting games have ridiculously old code, which can get scary to manipulate for other purposes.

But, I've added the idea to my list, because it's cool.

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It would be fun to like throw popcorn at the fighters and stuff too

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nothing that would actually interrupt the battle, but just fluff

mossy trout
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Uh... silver sink idea... allow the spectactors to pay to set-off traps/obstacles for the contestants to have to avoid. Would be fun to have a way for the specators to cause spike traps to happen against the contestants or a swinging chain, or a random lightning bolt!

hard totem
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lol I love that...putting it on the long list of ideas

coarse scaffold
mossy trout
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yeah, it's not something that is on by default. Contestants/victims would have to allow it first

digital zealot
hard totem
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oh yeah, if we did something like Tysong's idea, it would be a setting on the gauntlets or something, so you could do it with or without

vivid patrol
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would make for a fun "charity event duel" where the participants get to do stuff yeah

rich oak
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I like the betting talk. I wonder if maybe its worth a brainstorming thread about a standalone device that could be setup to take bets at various odds and the player that sets up the device can dictate the odds and winner and the device just pays out. That way it would work with a larger amount of situations.
I also support a simple betting system in the arena too

cursive knot
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I was just spitballing with Xynwen about that exact thing this morning.

proud frost
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Spreadsheets, chalkboards and me frantically trying to run an alt to handle it all is pretty stressful

little nacelle
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All I want is the ability to edit the rooms with a future contest win! 😝

wanton comet
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Do you have to complete a duel/fight to be able to leave the battle gauntlet portal arena or can you just go in there and rest/recover?

hard totem
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It's not meant to be a sanctuary. If you go in as a combatant, you are immobilized until the person you waved your gauntlet at comes in as well

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and then technically you could stand around in the room until it kicks you out or someone SURRENDERs and you both get kicked out earlier

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You can't be injured, you can't be in combat, and the rooms are not nodes. So it's not really a rest/recovery spot.

tacit salmon
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It's almost like you're trying to prevent us from abusing them

hard totem
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I really am! A lot of work went into them 🙂

south tree
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Just to confirm -- when you lose -- you are meant to leave the portal without the spells you entered with, correct? You are alive, but all spells stripped.

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Need more than 4x per day.

obsidian pollen
hard totem
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Nothing's changed on what it takes on/off you for the arena, so I'd have to dig deeper into that code

south tree
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This item is a home run.

hard totem
south tree
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Small QOL request: it would be really nice feature if it told you many charges it had 4/4, 3/4, etc.

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Also, we may have a few bugs -- what's the best way to share those?

hard totem
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a bugitem on the gauntlet would be great, thanks

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you can mark them here too, of course, but in case I'm asleep or something, having it in a bug report will ensure it gets to me

wanton comet
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Do the flare arms gloves still only work with weapons that don't have other flares or scripts?

hard totem
ionic axle
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Questions about these special Gauntlets and the resulting Arena?

  1. Must you use the resulting arena for dueling?
  2. How/when does the arena go poof?
  3. Is there a bystander attendance limit?
mossy trout
ionic axle
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I guess I am confused how WAVE is different than THROW, then.

mossy trout
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WAVE creates the portal which uses the arena system. THROW is just purely RP and also shows consent. No portal is made for THROW

ionic axle
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I'm trying to figure out why I could possibly want this thing

mossy trout
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If you don't duel or want to "fight" then you wouldn't. You could also use this as a pseudo "arena" for seigery and spirit beasts too. Wait... or maybe not.

ionic axle
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Thanks Mister Tysong! Yes, thinking about alternate uses.

mossy trout
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Nope... can't DROP anything. So spirit beasts and seigery is a no go.

For the fighting arena combatants, and this change applies to all fighting arenas using this system (Festival of the Fallen, the flotilla, etc), you can no longer disarm boxes or pick locks, nor can you drop, give, or exchange anything.
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That's a bummer though. Would be great if seigery and spirit beasts could be made the exception. That or allow those things to work in the AT-FEET slot instead.

rich oak
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are they blocking spirit beasts another way? you don't have to drop anything for them I thought. the summon of the beast is right onto the ground

mossy trout
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disclaimer: don't do spirit beasts

If that's the case, then probably could work? Would likely be best to have someone test it to be sure no issue with them inside the arena though

little nacelle
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But you could invite people in for a two person mime show

ionic axle
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Until your timer ran out? I've already forgotten what the time limit is. Heh

little nacelle
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15 minutes of miming

jovial glacier
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15 minutes per scene. I would run it like this, Three People, two actors and one usher....Actors summon the correct scenes and go in, Usher brings the group in sets the stage "Now behold Sir Don Kiote and Sanshow as they brave the black sands WATCH now and be amazed", do the skit or whatever have the actors leave...have the usher leave and carry the group into the new portal continue....

As far as using it for fighting I know it is tied to FoF rules but I wish someone could look at the spells not allowed, FoF always seemed written to favor warriors vs being a serious fighting place.

ionic axle
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HIRED!

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Scenes ... real soon now.

south tree
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Well, this is judge-y: >go port Only physically fit persons may enter the fighting pits.

mossy trout
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what injuries do you have?

south tree
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None. Not sure why. It let me in after 3 attempts.

mossy trout
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Full vitals?

south tree
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Yes -- I was very confused.

obsidian pollen
hard totem
ionic axle
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All right, I'm in on the Battle Vault ... in hopes for the additional features, soon.

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Thanks for answering the questions, everyone.

little nacelle
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I just want my street fighter level background eventually 😛

jovial glacier
little nacelle
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dunno yet! Need the option to do it before my brains ponders the possibilities

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not worth thinking about what can't happen! 😛

rich oak
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Rift car on the docks

south tree
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Xynwen -- one thing I'm noticing is that having briar items makes it very hard to enter the portal. Because the betrayer items are constantly leeching blood, I'm rarely at 100% health -- but usually 1 or 2 HPs down, that prevent me from entering the portal. Is there anything that can be done do you think?

hard totem
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I'm doubtful that there's a real solution -- you need to be at full health and uninjured, so I'm thinking a quick macro to tap them all off then tap then go portal, and tap them back on as soon as you're unimmobilized

south tree
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Xynwen -- when I am fighting in the arena, it will not let me take actions like putting my staff away. >put staff in my cloak You cannot do that here.

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It also appears it automatically clears the opponent as a target, which means you have to retarget, and makes casting a bit cumbersome. I'm not sure if that's the same as FOTF.

neat glen
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You cannot do that here.

not being able to put the runestaff away is super annoying, I'd much rather this arena didn't have any restriction and was more like the helden hall one

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anything goes fights are always more fun anyway than this pg-13 fof version imo

jovial glacier
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that must have been introduced later when they tried to restrict the arena's functions. I was putting my staff away right after release....I think

hard totem
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The fighting arena restriction should be the same as it always was for all non-Helden, but I will look at it, because I agree it seems like you should be able to put it away at least

barren island
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You are about to permanently remove the ability to BREAK the gauntlets.  If this is what you want, repeat your command within 30 seconds.
>poke gaunt
>
You fidget with your etched metal gauntlets, setting it to be unbreakable.```
I love this. Awesome addition. ❤️ Do it for future battle vault items too, please! 😄
little nacelle
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Alternatively, we should be able to break anything in the game to create an orb, even Yardie

south tree
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We should be able to break a violet orb into two violet orbs.

little nacelle
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hell yeah

icy stump
inner linden
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Would be awesome to get one of these.. No chance of back vault items being offered again?