#Combat Flourishes (aka Mechanical Flourishes)

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

stoic dune
#

Can you ask ChatGPT if FA > Lore Flares?

cedar latch
#

If I had to guess, the 'increased flare rate' is likely just shifting from 0-1-2-3-4-5 and their associated increasing chance of flare, instead becoming something like 0-3-4-5-6-7

#

Let me see if I can find the old post about observed flare rate with the dispel flares comparing attack occurance

dusty pendant
#

Whirlin, can you quantify how much cooler I would look with FA, on a 0-10 point whale scale? (I'm just here for the tshirt).

exotic kiln
# 
If you want more consistent flare activation and overall higher damage output across various situations, Flare Affinity might be the better choice.
If your character is specialized in specific lores and you want to maximize your damage through tailored effects, Lore Flares can provide significant benefits, especially in situations where you face enemies vulnerable to the specific type of damage they deal.

While Flare Affinity boosts overall flare frequency and potency universally across many types of flares, it doesn't scale with specific lore training. In contrast, Lore Flares directly benefit from the user's investment in specific lores, making them potentially more powerful in the hands of someone with such high ranks.

It actually got something right.

cedar latch
# 
a= .03102
b= -1.36201
c = 17.15

Correlation R^2 = .9975```
# 
Flares on 1st swing: 0
Flares on 2nd swing: 824 / 5537 =  0.149
Flares on 3rd swing: 1399 / 4713 =  0.297
Flares on 4th swing: 1329 / 3314 =  0.401
Flares on 5th swing: 983 / 1985 =  0.495
Flares on 6th swing: 542 / 1002 =  0.541
Flares on 7th swing: 283 / 460 =  0.615
Flares on 8th swing: 113 / 177 =  0.638
Flares on 9th swing: 40 / 64 =  0.625
Flares on 10th swing: 15  / 24 =  0.625
Flares on 11th swing: 8 / 9 =  0.889
Flares on 12th swing: 1 / 1 =  1.000
Flares on 13th swing: 0 / 0 =  NaN
Flares on 14th swing: 0 / 0 =  NaN```
gilded ingot
stoic dune
#

What is the FA version of those numbers so I can compare the 5th swing cumulative rate!

rigid bridge
#

Ok, update chat gpt with Whirlin's explanation and it arrives at this new number. This is just comparing the total number of swings versus the total number of flares

[flaretracker: Comparison to Standard Melee Flare Rate: 48.37% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)]

cedar latch
#

I do not have Flare Affinity. I have not seen similar breakdowns of Flare Affinity. If I were coding Flare Affinity, I would simply add 1 to the attack counter, because that seems... easy?

#

but that's just... a theory... a game theory,.

stoic dune
#

at 1 to equation please... 1/5 + 1/1, 6/5 flare rate is reasonable

gilded ingot
#

i believe estild said boost supercharger is the same frequency boost as FA. i also think it's probably incrementing your base swing counter, or increasing how many swings a swing counts for in the scaling chance probably.

rigid bridge
#

Need something to think and talk about while running a thousand plus entries

And this is better than the usual complain/angst cycle

cedar latch
# cedar latch ```Total Number of Swings: 22826 Flares on 1st swing: 0 Flares on 2nd swing: 82...

So... The interesting part of this data is also that it cannot flare on attack 1. Historically, this has been a problem on bandoliers with standard flare materials. Because every time you draw a bandolier item, it creates a net new item. Therefore, it's increment starts at 0, and since the first attack with the item cannot flare, you end up in a situation where the bandolier weapons are unable to flare.

And while explaining this, it's worth pointing out Nyxus solved this yesterday for Material flares, which do not follow the same growing flare rate as ability slot flares

rose reef
#

Do you see this growing flare rate in other types of flares, or is this phenomenon limited to the ability slot? Material flares don't follow the same growing rate, but what about script flares? Bane flares? Any good data on those, or do we not know? Could also be case-by-case with scripts...

rigid bridge
#

I guess I don't understand the need for Whirlin math since I have data that shows the number of swings versus the number of flares. Since its dispel flares we're not missing any potential flares that did not occur due to something dieing. I'm not expecting perfect math here just an approximation based on thousands of swings and flares.

wispy light
rose reef
#

Right - if you just aggregate the number of swings and number of flares, you miss this trend in the frequency where they go off with greater likelihood after unsuccessful attempts to flare. It's probably a small effect on the overall probability, but we're already in the weeds

rigid bridge
#

So I'll just add, maybe staff needs to just simplify this stuff if they expect folks to pay essentially $1,000 for flare affinity. I don't think its unreasonable to have a simple way to understand the increase of flare affinity frequency (potency I get), and give us an approximate number that folks can say yay or nay to when we're talking about this kind of cash

dusty pendant
#

Uh, math isn't my thing. But why does that impact the increase in flare rate? Wouldn't the same number of kills, on average, happen on the first swing regardless of baseline versus flare affinity? We're trying to figure out how much FA increases flare rates compared to baseline standard.

rose reef
#

Suppose you kill an enemy in one swing without the flare going off. For the next enemy, that miss for the flare going off is going to increase the flare chance. It just confounds the data ever so slightly because the baseline keeps changing.

To be clear, on average, this should have a miniscule effect. But you're asking math nerds to get "close enough" and that's not how math nerds tend to work 😆

rigid bridge
#

That's great and all but you shouldn't have to be a math nerd to understand how items work -.-

exotic kiln
#

Yet another reason lore flares are superior.

wispy light
#

There's lots of things in GS that for some reason are secrets....a lot of that obfuscation has never made sense to me.

For FA, if Whirlins supposition of how they implemented FA is correct, they themselves may not know the actual increase percentage.

rigid bridge
#

That's how you end up with killer robots. You created a program and don't understand how it works.

wispy light
rose reef
#

To gather perfect data, you would need to swing once against an enemy and then "reset" the weapon's flare chance. We don't even know what that would entail. It might reset with the combat timer. It might reset when you log off. Or it might not reset at all and the item remembers the last time it flared. Without studying the code, it's a blind guess.

proven thunder
#

throw it in the locker it always works

wispy light
rose reef
rigid bridge
#

But its not like the increased flare chance disappears. It's always active to some degree after the first strike that doesn't flare. The math that Whirlin proposed is great if you don't have actual data but after a certain amount of data I think you can make some deductions with the caveat that they're approximate

rose reef
wispy light
rose reef
#

But if we want to know the exact flare chance... honestly, this is very similar to medical research. Study the results, painstakingly try to account for each variable, and maybe we'll get as close to the real "code" as possible, which we can't see or access.

fast tapir
#

ha for the gemstone connoisseur who min/maxes their chances on their 5th attack to get their best flare chance instead of mashing kill over and over

dusty pendant
#

Now you're talking. Flare Antipathy. Adds flares, reduces flare critical, so you can get more skroll.

wispy light
rigid bridge
#

I'm headed to bed, but spent a little more time asking questions of chat gpt and these two statements made sense to me. The data tracking didn't change but it provided a less confusing explanation as to what the data means. Data changed because I was still grinding the entire time.

[flaretracker: - 1 per 3.48 swings, which is 30.4% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)]
[flaretracker: - How much more likely am I to see a flare on each individual swing?]
[flaretracker: - 43.68% more likely]```

number of swings 
The 30.4% improvement is about reducing the number of swings needed to trigger a flare. This is useful if you’re thinking in terms of “How many swings do I need on average before I get a flare?”

probability improvement
The 43.68% improvement is about increasing the chance that any given swing will flare. This is useful if you’re thinking in terms of “How much more likely am I to see a flare on each individual swing?”
warm jasper
#

Bane is already its own slot. Why would you want it to conflict with a mechanical flourish?

exotic kiln
#

They mean in the sense to be able to have multiple banes and swap them or maybe even unlock dual banes

warm jasper
#

Ah, got it. That does make sense, mechanically. Thematically, I think the ingame presentation of bane was part RP, part mechanical. The “purpose” of the weapon was to be the bane of XYZ.
That was a long time ago.

covert storm
#

Fixed an issue with lore flares and bolt spells - #development-announcements message

burnt glen
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Good grief - these silly flares are taking all of Nyxus' coding time. Stop finding things so he can go work on something I'm interested in!

halcyon oxide
#

we actually do sometimes find bugs in more general system during this though, so at least there's tangential benefit

violet fractal
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I want to read more about some of the lore flares but the deets are all buried, would someone mind linking the bit that describes all the different types?

candid cliff
violet fractal
#

awesome thanks 🙂 -- ohhhh heh alright I just realized that there is a big pushpin for pinned posts

wet charm
#

I heard somewhere parasite was considered for becoming a combat flourish. Is that true?

exotic kiln
#

Anything that alters the weapon is a no go.

wet charm
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That was my very general understanding, but figured I would ask to confirm. I haven’t been able to keep up with the thread enough to have confidence in my answer.

gilded ingot
#

That seems incredibly unlikely.

covert storm
#

Parasite is a no go

warm jasper
#

Is it is safe/likely/reasonable expectation that no current scripts will be converted to flourishes this run? (I believe Knockout flares and GEF were two candidates here; unsure of others).

covert storm
#

Happy to hear suggestions for next run though!

gilded ingot
#

polearm, knockouts lame little brother.

warm jasper
#

I think that's a good decision, even if some would be ready. Responsive to feedback is good (great?), but churn, changes, and too many option changes at once... can backfire.
It also means I don't have to budget Animal Script adds on my Erithi's katana (currently with GEF) for this run!

warm jasper
gilded ingot
#

they're exactly the same damage type (crush) and strength as knockout flares. But they don't always hit the head like knockout flares. Can only go on polearms (and quarterstaves). With MOC training they can trip the target knocking them down sometimes when the flare triggers. Even that is worse than knockout cause knockout actually has an extra little bit where it can inflict extra statuses like knocking the target unconscious or prone anyways. They're just knockout but worse in every way except slightly cheaper lol

warm jasper
#

I know, that's why I'm asking you! 🙂
My bard has stylish and perfectly forged spear now. I'm using Flare gloves for now, but with script adds more affordable now, I'm thinking of the future (at next DR). Shame to hear that they are worse mechanically. I know they were less popular.

gilded ingot
#

yeah just wan't sure if you saw the callout on the generic flares page cause it has some of the info explicitly lol. Like knockout they're oooooold, like Khaladon in the early aughts.

# 
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Left hand smashed into a pulpy mass.
You reverse your stick again, and sweep the dude off her feet!```
leaden narwhal
#

Dream would be that if they make it into a flourish, those reverse strikes could also trigger normal weapon flares as if they were an actual attack

warm jasper
gilded ingot
# leaden narwhal Dream would be that if they make it into a flourish, those reverse strikes could...

yeah i mean, it's kinda a budget option so it's whatever. I certainly won't say no to improvements lol. The big one i could think of is at least making the sweep be like 50/100% chance with the MoC maybe (it's 33/66 now). Or scale to 100 maybe at 150 ranks? I dunno. but considering the already high chance you've knocked the thing down previously with setups it's preeeeeeeeety niche. I use sucker punch as my setup so hey, good for me (but never see it if it's a swarmy room cause i've probably bullrushed already)

#

if it was a real melee class not a monk cosplaying a turtle i'd have done tackle/kneebash/sweep/1005/410/etc. already so it's a super marginal benefit to be also massively skill gated

warm jasper
#

I would use on my bard, so may get more use out of it than a square with bullrush. I do usually open with a setup of some sort, ideally a knockdown: vaultkick, perhaps lullabye. Knockdowns on cyclone would be nice, as I don't have an AoE knockdown.

cedar latch
gilded ingot
#

Ton of flavor just, certainly a reason they're the next cheapest script flare after GEF lol

wet charm
#

I added some to a qstaff and have no regrets. Top tier flavor

warm jasper
covert tendon
#

id like to suggest Astral Armaments the flourish/script/subscript? the user wears an "astral link" ring... and can attune or unattune the ring to any 1 armor, 4 armor accessories, 1 shield and/or 1 weapon. When activating the ring it would summon and instantly equip (albeit subject to 5 seconds Hard RT Maybe more) the attuned items from within thier astral vault. When deactivating the ring it will do the reverse and send the equipment back to the astral vault. This gives us a useful tool for quickly equipping our gear without walking around all day in it and pushes sales for astral vault capacity boosts. As well as initial sales for the flourish. obviously inspired by the old school dnd ring of arming.

burnt glen
#

Hmm...

Your sonic runestaff now has the Flare Affinity Flourish.
That was the last use of the parchment.  Your parchment crumbles to dust.
>swap
You swap your sonic runestaff from your left to your right hand.``` Good idea or bad idea?
tame spear
#

Please assist for your refund. Sonic stuff doesn't have any saving

burnt glen
tame spear
#

Oh phew

glad socket
#

That's pretty hilarious, did it work on the sonic flares?

burnt glen
burnt glen
gilded ingot
burnt glen
tame spear
warm jasper
#

Sonic stuff just keeps getting blacklisted. Veola last year (EG?), 400k BS flourishes this year (safely in test, fortunately)

covert storm
#

We’d like to fix that as part of the bard review

warm jasper
#

We’d like to see that fixed, too. 🙂
I do my part by using 1035 in the teams arena and hope it’s a painful reminder about how broken powerful it is…
… while also remembering that last attempted tweak was broken /unusable/did nothing. (Divergence areas, anyone?)

burnt glen
burnt glen
void tartan
burnt glen
#

Nyxus is young blood! He didn't go through the ranged review and the PSM abuse. I think he can handle the bard community. Just have to ignore a couple of the people. I have a list.

wispy light
void tartan
stoic dune
#

GMs with N names, something about them....

burnt glen
#

Aergo, working on the rogue service, has been taking great feedback as well. So what have they released without asking about it?

covert storm
#

My next big project is gemstones

#

Which is already underway

burnt glen
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How can you focus on gemstones when some of the professions are still bogged down without a review? That seems wonky.

leaden narwhal
#

Bards are not bogged down, they're living the dream 😆

stoic dune
leaden narwhal
#

To be clear, I still hope the bard review happens - but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Both!

Also, Nyxus can apparently do all of the things at once, given the steady flow of announcements.

burnt glen
glad socket
#

I think bard review is lower prio than gemstones as gemstones has a wider audience, and is much much less controversial

It'll happen, eventually, but like I'm not sure anyone's looking forward to that drama boat again

lone minnow
#

Didn’t Wyrom say at the SoE discord chat thing in November that he had put a moratorium on nerfs or something similar? That would kind of preclude a bard review lol

tame spear
#

Hey hey hey this is a relentless positivity zone

burnt glen
#

Moratorium on nerfs? I mean - that can be interpreted a couple ways. I think a lot of people would have said the bard review was a net positive on changes! Not possible for it to be considered a nerf if the net outcome is positive, right?

cedar latch
#

Rumor has it, Nyxus isn't the only GM, and his statement was just about his own priorities

#

.. just sayin'

tame spear
#

We are all one GM

cedar latch
#

It's been the gerball the whole time!

tame spear
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I mean, most players don't have that level of granularity about GMs. What one says is attributed to all most of the time

burnt glen
tame spear
#

We try not to look directly at the bard

proven thunder
#

hurtful

tame spear
#

They can't see you if you can't see them

burnt glen
#

I'm hopeful that this level of trepidation to review bards is mostly tongue-in-cheek and that bards will still get their review even though a few people will always be VERY upset if 1030/1035 get changed

tame spear
#

I am not a Dev based GM, I treat all combat and mechanics with equal trepidation

halcyon oxide
#

I've been pretty open about the fact that I'm actually an LLM

cedar latch
#

Better an LLM than a MLM

burnt glen
#

Too bad you aren't an LLC. Less liability that way.

halcyon oxide
#

A lurking larval catastrophe? Probably one of those too

glacial dock
#

Am I doing something wrong? My flourishes aren't both working when I suspect they should. I have summoning and necro lore flares on the staff; however, against a living creature only necro lore hits. Looks like I am doing something wrong....will delete the wall of text.

zealous wigeon
wispy light
glacial dock
#

Oh yeah. All that was good. Just forgot to drink the fixskills potion. Total game changer.

wispy light
#

Oh, so you already fixed it? Cool.

glacial dock
#

Yeah. Was a total brain fart. It's looking better. All in damage is around 50-60 for the 2 sec tick for summoning lore.

rigid bridge
# 
Average Damage: 36.72
Median Damage: 35.0
Standard Deviation: 11.56
Damage Distribution:
0 - 9: 1 hits
10 - 19: 5 hits
20 - 29: 433 hits
30 - 39: 1051 hits
40 - 49: 391 hits
50 - 59: 258 hits
60 - 69: 157 hits
70 - 79: 59 hits
80 - 89: 0 hits
90 - 99: 0 hits
100+: 0 hits
Total Hits: 2355 hits
Highest Recorded: 70
Flare Rate: 1 per 3.47
Flare Probability%: 28.83%
Comparison to Standard Melee Flare Rate of 1 Flare Per 5 Swings or 20%:
- How many swings do I need on average before I get a flare?
- 1 per 3.47 swings, which is 30.6% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)
- How much more likely am I to see a flare on each individual swing?
- 44.09% more likely```

Got quite a bit of data on dispel flares with flare affinity at this point
fast tapir
#

So I suspect I know the answer (multi target) but is there a reason that even with 100% flare rates that the religion loreflare won't activate with 335? other spells like 340 will interact with it for at least the first round of casts so I assume it is possible to have it interact and it was intentionally removed same with 316.

glad socket
#

So most/nearly all spell aoes don't trigger post resolution flares. Cause we don't whine enough like volley users.

#

I joke with that last part, but it was part of the spell aoe review stuff like 10 to 12 years back.

#

But like it's the same for aoe 1030, 518, 710, 720 and so on

stoic dune
#

Random Elemental Lore breakpoint question: why are the breakpoints hard coded? (Is it too cumbersome for the system to assess a more formulaic % where every lore point counts?) and can we add a 75% flare rate breakpoint?

glad socket
#

loreflares follow the seed 1 summation chart for the different breakpoints, like many many (all?) spells that use lore follow one of the summation charts for lore effects

fast tapir
# glad socket So most/nearly all spell aoes don't trigger post resolution flares. Cause we do...

Yea I figured. But with lore flares being a new version of an old thing I kinda hoped this would be a time to look at it a bit more. 335 (or 1030, 518, etc.) is a direct attack spell that doesn't benefit from the new spell power system rolled out like 410/435 (not sure about 710/720 because sorcerer) and still requires a direct warding roll for success so even if it only went off once it seems like it's a decent ask.

stoic dune
glad socket
#

yeah it's just a larger issue than one spell, no spell AOEs trigger post flares which was a concious decision dev made at the time they did, and spellpower doesn't really matter that just helps those mentioned spells be about as strong as what they were previously

#

now could aoe spells be revisited in a world of volley and assaults? quite possibly, those are things that didn't exist before.

burnt glen
#

Oh I would love me some mana flares on AOE casts

glad socket
#

https://gswiki.play.net/Summation_chart for more info
But yeah there are some that I'm thinking I guess of that are flat, like lore/10 lore/50 and such, but those still are all or nothing, there's no difference between like 0 and 49 until you hit 50, or 10-19 till you hit 20 and so. Just kinda all depends what the developer uses.

stoic dune
#

I plan to go 171 ranks but 50% or 100% seemed harsh, especially if I need to wait until Sylinar at EG for that last 5 lore swap or something. Sidenote, they should have Sylinar at DR.

glad socket
#

yeah, it's a high breakpoint, but it's fairly typical, like 1035 you don't get that extra second RT till 75 ranks of air lore, so everything between 30-75 "does nothing" kinda thing

burnt glen
fast tapir
stoic dune
#

Going from 30 air lore to 75 is way different than 105 to 171 especially for non-wizards.... tough decisions have to be made and enhancives are needed. Buying elemental lore flares probably means you need another 2-3 million ascension experience and 50m+ in lore enhancives to get the full benefit.

rigid bridge
#

Testing dispel with flare affinity and item supercharger over 250 arena runs now.

rigid bridge
#

Oh also, we need script affinity flourish to boost scripted flare frequency.

halcyon oxide
#

... Yeah. Don't make plans on that one
..

rigid bridge
#

But I just bought the 10 grand simucoin option specifically for that hope

glad socket
#

I don't even think you could make script affinity, since scripts do flares 100 different ways

exotic kiln
rigid bridge
#

Ok second idea for the moment, a cursed flourish that deals random HP damage from 25 to 50 in order to fuel rage flourish

halcyon oxide
#

Hope truly is the greatest of all gifts.

wise oxide
#

b/c you can revel in the despair that inevitably follows?

rigid bridge
#

The gift is coming up with playstyles that sound incredibly stupid and making them work by spending lots of money...

halcyon oxide
stoic dune
#

High simucoin packages should come with an in game shiny "supporter" badge and 1 get out of jail free coupon

fast tapir
rigid bridge
# 
Dispel CatB Flare Statistics:
Average Damage: 36.72
Median Damage: 35.0
Standard Deviation: 11.56
Total Hits: 2355 hits
Highest Recorded: 70
Flare Rate: 1 per 3.47
Flare Probability%: 28.83%
Comparison to Standard Melee Flare Rate of 1 Flare Per 5 Swings or 20%:
- How many swings do I need on average before I get a flare?
- 1 per 3.47 swings, which is 30.6% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)
- How much more likely am I to see a flare on each individual swing?
- 44.09% more likely


FLARE AFFINITY WITH SUPERCHARGER
Dispel CatB Flare Statistics:
Average Damage: 33.03
Median Damage: 30.0
Standard Deviation: 15.23
Total Hits: 1351 hits
Highest Recorded: 70
Flare Rate: 1 per 2.5
Flare Probability%: 39.96%
Comparison to Standard Melee Flare Rate of 1 Flare Per 5 Swings or 20%:
- How many swings do I need on average before I get a flare?
- 1 per 2.5 swings, which is 50.0% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)
- How much more likely am I to see a flare on each individual swing?
- 100.0% more likely```

Lol, 100% more likely to see a flare with flare affinity and supercharger going
leaden narwhal
#

c'mon, 2x

warm jasper
#

Odd that average damage per flare went down
There are more flares, of course

rigid bridge
#

Did some rounds of endless,

#

Blink is holding fairly steady at 1 per 8

exotic kiln
#

What spell? How many ranks? Didn't I read that spell training affects flare rate somewhere?

# 
The more spell ranks the wielder has above the level of the infused spell (in the same spell circle), the higher the flare rate. Thus a wielder with 30 spell ranks in a particular circle would have a higher frequency of flares infusing a 2nd level spell than a 30th level spell. GM confirmed
Wyrom: It's a pretty big formula, I'll just share it. But it's basically looking for a few things. If you know the spell, if so it looks at how many ranks in that circle you have above the spell level. If you don't know the spell, but can learn it, and have learned spells. If you don't know the spell, but can learn it, and don't know any spells. It does some math here that basically results in a best case situation of 20% flare chance.
void tartan
# 

This is a Blink weapon.  Its combat properties include:

1) Blinking: When POKEd, the weapon can teleport you to an adjacent room provided that you can teleport out of your starting room and into the ending room by normal means.  There is a chance to fail at teleporting or even critically fail, resulting in transportation to a random nearby area.

2) Spell Flaring: You can cast an offensive spell into this weapon to make it "flare" with that spell at no mana cost.  Higher level spells flare less often and are harder to instill into the weapon via CAST, but this can be mitigated through spell training.

Blink weapons can have cosmetic alterations.```
rigid bridge
#

It should be higher but my issue is dispel and my regular hit kill them too often. Even my telepathy flares which should be 1 per 1 are only at 1 per 2.78

tall jolt
#

Does flare affinity work with old style coraesine air flares?

gloomy wren
#

Does the air flare show up in the loresong/recall (like it shows for every other flare/ability.)

tall jolt
#

No, they are very weird items. Nothing really shows up in the loresong except enchant/player services/etc, they predate the material properties system, and i've always been told they have air flares in their "flare slot".

glad socket
#

coraesine is very complicated, there's also like 10 versions of it apparently, so it's not even easy to answer questions about because your individual item might be different from another even though you don't know it is. I know you couldn't subscript it at all before, loreflares might work now? But I don't think flare affinity will work due to it not using the normal "ability flare" coding.

#

there are certs on test though I think still, so you can try it out yourself and see what works

tall jolt
#

oh, ok. thanks. Let's see if GST was updated recently enough for me to have that specific item on the character that currently uses it

edit: does not work, but now I know. Thanks

covert storm
#

Lore flares should work with coraesine

#

Flare affinity could potentially be updated to work with it, if there is a desire

vague lance
# 
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Oozing sores appear on the ice giant champion's left hand.``` and they are great!
tall jolt
#

I personally would love that... but I also don't want you to feel like you should spend a bunch of time on something that has dubious benefits to the player base as a whole, but I don't know if it's 10 minutes of work or 10 hours. Thanks for setting out those certs to test, that's amazingly helpful for people like me who have a lot of weird stuff.

vague lance
#

my question would be, what would flare affinity effect on the varios styles of corasaine weapon

covert storm
#

It would only affect the Cat B air flare

woven depot
#

Does FA work on fear or dispell flares?

covert storm
#

It increases the frequency of them, yes. I don't think it would increase the potency of fear/terror. I am unsure on whether it increases the potency of dispel (I'm sure someone will chime in)

hallow compass
#

Flare affinity can increase the damage dispel flares cause

tranquil turtle
#

it would be neat if dispel got the acuity treatment and added a couple extra dispels (like d3 to d5)

wispy light
#

The increase in dmg is probably going to be more beneficial by comparison though. Not everything wears a blinding amount of spells like Ithzir.

tranquil turtle
#

well, it should increase the damage of the disruption flare if there are no spells on the target I would think?

wispy light
#

That's what Greng just said it does.

rigid bridge
glad socket
#

Yeah terror doesn't have a potency but the dispel disruption crits do

rigid bridge
tranquil turtle
#

I was only saying have it act like it has 2 extra tiers

rigid bridge
#

I mean I'm all for it but I would expect it to cost 500k to 1 mil bloodscrip. It would be that OP

wispy light
#

I have a d5 dispel flare, it's pretty strong. The more dispels you have the more fluxes you can get. (assuming they wear enough spells)

#

If I didn't have rot on the staff already I'd put FA on there (and I'm not paying for 2 combat flourishes.)

rigid bridge
# 

 ** For a split second, the striations of your somnis spiked mace expand into a sinuous pearlescent mist that rushes towards the tattooed champion, enveloping him entirely and causing him to collapse, fast asleep! **

You swing a somnis spiked mace at a muscular tattooed champion!

 ** Your somnis spiked mace glows brightly for a moment, consuming the magical energies around the tattooed champion! **
[SMR result: 210 (Open d100: 20, Bonus: 137)]
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Blood in the tattooed champion's shield arm boils, sending up a red mist.

  AS: +731 vs DS: +247 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +93 = +599
   ... and hit for 192 points of damage!
   Perfect strike to abdomen.  The tattooed champion howls in pain and drops quite dead!
A muscular tattooed champion spasms one last time and then dies.```

Dispel has the most synergy atm because you can have somnis (pre-sleep) and then dispel (pre disruption).  Since dispel is SMR it gets a nice big bonus of 100 if the somnis fires off.  If you're melee you have a mob that is slept, probably stunned, and then you get a huge endroll.

``` ** For a split second, the striations of your somnis spiked mace expand into a sinuous pearlescent mist that rushes towards the minotaur champion, enveloping her entirely and causing her to collapse, fast asleep! **

You swing a somnis spiked mace at an imposing minotaur champion!

 ** Your somnis spiked mace glows brightly for a moment, consuming the magical energies around the minotaur champion! **
[SMR result: 260 (Open d100: 54, Bonus: 148)]
   ... 60 points of damage!
   Both the minotaur champion's kidneys rupture.  Death is quick and painful.
A low gurgling sound comes from deep within the chest of the minotaur champion as she falls slack against the floor.
The constricting bands surrounding an imposing minotaur champion shatter into nothingness.```

Just lots of stupid SMR results.
wispy light
#

I have somnis dispel on my bow, yeah that's really nice.

woven depot
#

nice! never thought about somnis and dispell working together like that. I have somnis and fear. I wouldn't get FA, but I was curious if it would do anything..

wispy light
#

Greater somnis specifically doesn't wake up on the dispel, even though the dispel happens after the sleep.

gilded ingot
# 
Estild: Flare Affinity would increase the odds of dispel flares (for outright triggering, but not the number of spells that are attempted when it does trigger) and the damage for when a target has no spells active, but it would not affect the damage from a dispel clash.```
#870106835309457438 message

Which yeah seems to be the case at least around when FA was originally released and i doubt it's changed. Just for clarity for people.
leaden narwhal
#

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but just want to confirm as I consider future future plans. For Lore Flares - Telepathy: Valid Targets: Living Foes is everything that is not undead, correct? So elementals, constructs, etc are good?

covert storm
#

Correct

stoic dune
#

Any chance there could be switcheroo cert in HESS for these flourish flares if you wanted to switch from say fire to earth or future new flare type?

rigid bridge
# 
  AS: +754 vs DS: +481 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +54 = +362
   ... and hit for 116 points of damage!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.

** Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the mace to strike at a greater water elemental! **
   ... 20 points of damage!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
R>
Coarse laughter sounds from your brushed suede thigh-boots, which quickly dies down into a hacking cough.
>
Locked in mental durance, a greater water elemental is assailed by some unseen attack!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   The water elemental gurgles in agony as steam billows about!
   ... 85 points of damage!```
covert storm
wispy light
#

I would totally buy summoning now instead of waiting for manipulatoin if that was a possibility.

covert storm
#

What critical types and flavor would folks like to see for the other lores?

dusty pendant
#

Nyxus, would you be interested in testing out an interaction between FA and firewheel to see if it’s working properly? I’m not smart enough to understand the maths behind it, but using it on test and something seems off on double flares.

stoic dune
#

Xaz lore flares but the requirement is 105 ranks in every lore

exotic kiln
#

Have a question about FA and Firewheel if you might take a look when you get a chance Nyxus.
It appears that when it double flares, sometimes the "first" damage doesn't get the crit rank boosted properly. It appears to boost the damage as if the crit rank was boosted, but not the actual crit.

 ** Your firewheel longbow emits a fist-sized ball of lightning-suffused flames! **
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Burst of flames to right eye incinerates eyelid.  Gruesome.
   The gold-bristled hinterboar is stunned!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Heavy jolt to chest causes solar plexus to explode.  Remarkable display of spraying blood.

Here we have a Rank 3 (5 dmg) fire crit on the right eye doing 25 dmg (Rank 8).
And the second damage doing a Rank 5 lightning to the chest for 25 dmg which is correct.

stoic dune
#

Although would 100% grapple flaring flourish be super OP for swingers?

exotic kiln
# 
 ** Your firewheel longbow emits a fist-sized ball of lightning-suffused flames! **
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Right hand fried to a crisp.  Think barbecue sauce.
   ... 60 points of damage!
   Horrifying jolt of electricity fries abdomen to a crisp.  Upper torso falls to the ground.  Talk about repugnant!

Second question, does the damage have a minimum? Here the fire did a Rank 5 (8 dmg) to right hand at 25 dmg.

covert storm
#

I can take a peek at FA and firewheel, but it may not be until next week. I have some irl distractions this weekend. I’ll add it to my list though!

#

Anything you guys can do to illustrate the potential issue would be helpful

#

And in fact can one of you do me a favor and create a forum post for FA + Firewheel in mechanics?

leaden narwhal
#

demon -> disintegrate or slash
max(air/water) -> lightning
transformation -> grapple?

stoic dune
#

REAL lightning 100% flares would be crazy

exotic kiln
#

LoreFlares 2.0 - Other lores add more benefits.

dusty pendant
#

I’d like to see a transformation lore flare that casts an unreleased savant spell — say 1419 or 1412

vague lance
#

hybrid elements would be neat, acid/lightning

#

monkey paw, requires 171 ranks in both lores

exotic kiln
#

Could be a good selling point for the dual flourish. Where with 2 compatible loresflares both at 171 ranks 33% of the time you get an additional suffused flare. so 100% air, 100% water, 33% air/water suffusion = lightning?

leaden narwhal
#

Only issue with that of course is that would be exclusive to wizard/sorc

exotic kiln
#

I don't know about exclusive. It would be easier for sure. Well, I guess elemental are. So have to expand it to not be elements that have to work together traditionally.

#

I still advocate 2x lores for all!

leaden narwhal
#

They're already a severe TP/time drain.

#

What is it, 3.3m to 101 an elemental lore for rangers? So ~1.5x cap worth of exp for 2x elemental lores, if it were possible?

void tartan
# covert storm What critical types and flavor would folks like to see for the other lores?

Blessings idea 1: Pre-resolution buff of some kind (AS/UAF/CS, weighting, damage factor, negative crit padding against creature, etc.), with duration and/or number of applications determined by lore depending on what the buff is; this would work against everything

Blessings idea 2: Hitting a creature grants a non-refreshable bane effect of X duration, tied to the character (not the weapon) and applicable against that creature family to do lore flares of Y damage type; this would technically work against everything, but only be active against a tiny subset of creatures at any particular moment, so it could be especially powerful (by "creature family" I'm thinking more along the lines of animal bane, gigas bane, bandit bane, etc. than broader categories like extraplanar bane or undead bane that I wouldn't offer here)

Blessings idea 3: Fuse ideas 1 and 2 together so that it grants a larger buff, but only against one creature family at a time

Blessings idea 4: Random damage types selected from your convert status, elemental attunement (let's say no attunement equals crush), and profession's natural spheres (let's say elemental has fire/impact, mental has crush/puncture, and spiritual has disintegrate/plasma); this would work against everything

wispy light
#

Honestly, I'm not really all that creative in terms of what I'd like on manipulation flares. Something that isn't fire/lightning. The 2 spells that it really impacts are 1106/1115, for both of them the manipulation increases the instant kill chance. It makes me think of things being afraid, but I don't know that I think terror is a great flare for empath casters.

rigid bridge
# 
Vibration Chant (1002)
Ranks in this lore will decrease the minimum endroll threshold required to shatter a target's weapon or shield. The base reduction is 2 with an additional bonus for each rank, however there are diminishing returns with increased training.
Purification Song (1004)
A single rank in this lore will reduce failure for the song, i.e, reduce the chance for shattering a gem. Further protection with additional ranks are listed on the page for this spell.
Singing Sword Song (1025)
Training in this lore increases the attack strength of a Singing Sword Song's manifestation. The AS is calculated as: Weapon skill + (Bard Spell ranks - 25)/2 + (INF bonus + AURA bonus)/2 + (CMAN ranks/2) + (Mental Lore, Manipulation ranks/2) + MB, where MB = 25 if fighting a living creature, or 10 if fighting undead.
Song of Sonic Disruption (1030)
At 15 ranks of this lore, a focused version of the spell (single target) can be sung for half the mana cost (15 mana). At 30 ranks, the non-focused version of the spell will have the same damage benefit as singing it while playing a one-handed instrument with adept skill. At 45 ranks, the focused version of the spell will have the same damage benefit as singing it while playing a one-handed instrument with adept skill. At 60 ranks, the non-focused version of the spell will have the same damage benefit as singing it while playing a two-handed instrument with adept skill. At 75 ranks, the focused version of the spell will have the same damage benefit as singing it while playing a two-handed instrument with adept skill.
Minor Mental
Telekinesis (1206)
Increases the damage factor by .001 per rank up to 50 ranks, .001 per two ranks for ranks 51 to 100 and .001 per four ranks for ranks above 100.
Force Projection (1207)
Increases chance of success based on manipulation skill. 100 skill is "more of a penalty than the bonus that most individual spells provide to maneuver defense (at 100 spell ranks)" (see saved posts).
Thought Lash (1210)
Increases subsequent critical damage on the target based on skill. 100 skill will increase crit damage by "a little less than half a crit rank." (see saved posts)```

Forgetting about two whole other professions that use manipulation.  I could see manipulation lore flares being a random telekinesis attack that has a chance to occur against everything in the room.   I think we've kind of exhausted the dots at this point.  Targets are peppered with stones and such or you manipulate a large boulder to strike your targets.

A manipulation lore flare could randomly animate environmental objects that attack targets ala singing sword or the disarm that moonsedge conjurers do.
#

For blessing lore flares, let's go for broke. 100 lore allows all of your attacks to hit 2 targets. 200 lore allows all of your attacks to hit 3 targets. In my head I imagine you tone down the damage somewhat by taking your total endroll from the first target and spreading it out over the multiple targets. So if you're exceeding endrolls by +300 regularly then hitting 3 targets would be great, but if you can only manage +200 you probably only want 2 targets. Would give some incentive for using more disablers perhaps to get a huge end roll on your target to spread damage to other targets.

gloomy wren
#

Blessing - Undead Only - Disruption
Manipulation - Living Foes - Disintegration

wispy light
#

I mean, My monk has like zero manipulation lore at 2x cap, it's all in transformation. And I don't bard. So, I guess, but I can't say I've seen a ton of bard discussion about mental lore manipulation.

blissful ice
dusky temple
#

Dahcre flares? with ascii art?
That would be a cool scripted flare, picks a random card and the flare effect is based on the card drawn.

fierce crypt
glad socket
#

I think disintegration fits demon lore well since necro does disruption now, I also think it would be a got opposite style to summoning, so +25% vs living, -25% vs undead type one.

candid cliff
#

If anything demon flares should be more effective against undead or just equally for all.

A host of Faendryl sorcerers drew magical circles upon the ground, and from them, summoned a number of fiery lesser demons to do battle with the undead. The lesser demons were far more than enough, devouring the living and dead forces of Despana with gusto. They were so powerful that they demolished the undead armies singlehandedly.
#

Wonder if it's possible to have sphere lores (Psion Flares - all mental lores, Chaos Flares - all sorcerer lores, Divinity Flares - all spiritual lores) that do random damage/debuffs to targets, random buffs for attackers, and DoT) Muahaha - oops for Confluence Flares - all elemental lores - random explosions flares causing mana shrapnel to hit other foes in the area)

wheat hollow
#

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to increase flare/dot damage via total extra lores trained. Max bonus of 1x in each other circle. Extra training advantage. Raise the floor, boost the cap by 50%?

stoic dune
#

Happy to finally put Elemental lores on runestaff
Ten minutes later....
The inferno blazing around a scarred fire giant champion ignites anew, unleashing more waves of scorching heat!
The fire giant champion glows a ruddy orange as the heat and flames wash over her!
(oh no)

wheat hollow
#

That actually makes me think…what if we had a special verb on these flares to turn them off? it shouldn’t be PROD because that’s used by too many other things, but something like ROAR at it or POUND.
Or CLEAN, WHISPER ON/OFF.

cedar latch
tame spear
#

Functionally if you had a second mechanical Flourish you could "turn off" a flare by making the other one active

wispy light
#

That's one expensive on/off switch

stoic dune
#

I was just joking, not sure I would ever turn off my flares. It would be weird if every flare had an ON/OFF button. I would have so many switches.

rich folio
dusty pendant
#

Oh. Another combat flourish request: shell armor (edit: yes, I see it may change item description and may not meet requirements, but it feels like it should be a flourish instead of a standalone script).

halcyon oxide
#

providing an unblockable escape, would likely count as the primary essence of an item, which currently is considered not for flourishes. Maybe some sort of shell flares etc. inspired by shell armor, but ultimately the fact that you can hide inside the armor is pretty central to the item

candid cliff
#

Manipulation "Mirror" Lore Flares
Armor: chance to reverse damage from a successful attack from a foe.
Weapon: uses a random attack from from foe's arsenal to cause damage to it

dusty pendant
#

Transformation Lore flare: randomly gives you a 15 second MK PSM3 cman from all professions, with a random tier level.

wispy light
merry gyro
covert storm
#

Flare Affinity will now increase the potency of Acuity Flares - #event-announcements message

rigid bridge
#

Acuity too good now. Shame it doesn't work on melee

exotic kiln
#

Too bad it doesn’t work like ensorcell and buff the next attack.

final merlin
#

Are there no UCS flourishes?

burnt glen
final merlin
#

That Hess?

violet fractal
#

lore flares are hess upstairs, but unlike much of hess they are instant unlock certs

wispy light
covert storm
tranquil turtle
#

are poleaxe flares being considered to be converted to a flourish?

covert storm
covert storm
final merlin
covert storm
#

Lore Flares are 400k BS

#

Or 300k attuned

#

Platinum and Shattered receive a 75% discount

final merlin
#

Yea, but for what exactly. Just getting another flare? 1min typing cool down eesh...

covert storm
final merlin
#

I've seen that. Looks like just another flare. So they're not like actual changes to your fighting verbiage.

#

Because like there are some flourishes that are just verbs to add? UCS doesn't have any of those though it looks like.

covert storm
#

Ah, I understand the question now. I'm not sure if there are any non-combat flourishes available for UCS. @tame spear do you know?

urban bluff
tame spear
#

Mmmmm no, it's not classified as a "weapon" and the messaging for Thousand Cuts and Stance Dancing Weapon didn't make sense for boots or gloves

obtuse gale
#

I think Bare Aggression is a UAC specific gloves and boots fluff flourish.

And like Perigourd said, Fantabulous UAC.

Looks like there is one called Old One-Two as well maybe.

tame spear
#

This is just the initial set of offerings

warm jasper
violet wren
#

Old One-Two changes the item (similar to Grobey)... Not worn- a tight ball of <material>; worn- some <material> handwraps.

obtuse gale
#

Ah, ok

wispy light
#

Old spidersilk cloak to non-combat flourish, asking for a friend. (which we know is a lie, because people are terrible)

rose reef
#

Trying to redeem a multihued paper for Fire Lore flares on my sword, and it doesn't appear to work. Not entirely sure why. It has no subscript or combat flourish.

glad socket
#

for more details, she has a sword nearly identical already with flare affinity on it, so not completely sure what is blocking the redeem

tame spear
#

What is the error message?

rose reef
#

A multihued paper will not work on the sword.

#

The paper was attuned (since the sword is already anyway)

#

Something I should ASSIST with, I suppose?

tame spear
#

I think we'll need to see what error message it is giving on the GM side. Yeah, assist and if Nyxus beats us to it all the better. I can't tell what it could be on my phone

covert storm
#

@rose reef I'm taking a peek

rose reef
#

Shall I try now?

covert storm
#

@rose reef yes please

rose reef
covert storm
#

Sorry for the trouble!

rose reef
#

Thanks much, Nyxus! Curious what was broke.

covert storm
rose reef
tame spear
covert storm
#

Flare Affinity can now be applied to torso-covering armor.

proven thunder
#

what would that even do?

covert storm
#

It would increase the potency of ability flares (or bane flares), as well as the frequency

proven thunder
#

would it 2x my rage/td/ob?

covert storm
#

Nope - just flares

leaden narwhal
#

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess nobody has bane flares on their armor 😆 . I'm already in the weirdo camp by having it on my weapon now!

...but now I kinda want to

gilded socket
#

Who’s going to be the first 🐳 to get 2 combat flourishes on their armor?

covert storm
#

The figurine is presently locked down to weapons, I believe, but I could see if it is possible to change that if there is a request to do so

dense fox
leaden narwhal
#

We need some shield flourishes (although I recently learned that FA also works with them too?)

covert storm
covert storm
#

It would be neat to add other flourishes for shields though

urban bluff
#

I have terror on my shield, can't see that affinity would do much more for that than to increase frequency.

leaden narwhal
#

It will make the afraider

covert storm
#

Yep, it would only increase frequency on terror flares

#

Maybe in the future it could do something more

urban bluff
#

Increased fear duartion is the only thing that springs to mind for it.

covert storm
#

That was my thought too

urban bluff
#

I'm really curious to see what other flourishes come out down the line though now that the door's been opened pretty well.

covert storm
#

I'm shifting to implementing gemstones for a few months but there have been a lot of great ideas in here, and I plan to revisit them before next DR

#

If you have something you want, don't be afraid to ask! No promises of course 🙂

urban bluff
#

I don't have any mechanical ideas off the top of my caffeine withdrawling mind right now, but I'm always for anything foresty or imperial in essence. I'd have to give it some deep thought elsewise.

warm jasper
#

And yes, other flourishes would be great! Maybe so me adaptions (Knockout), maybe something new!

zealous wigeon
#

maybe this is why banshee flares have been asked for over and over for years and have never been offered...seems like a great middle of the road priced flourish with boost certs like how bubble flares work

wheat hollow
#

Banshee flourish on shields!

quick cipher
#

i so badly want the thousand cuts flourish in my twc weapons but they are valence and like 4 or 5 of the verbs match

covert tendon
leaden narwhal
#

presumably you can do flares and padding too

covert tendon
#

Same with shields, they add 5% block… will affinity double that? +10% block is epic

covert storm
#

Only flares, I'm afraid

#

So if you had ability flares or bane flares on your armor, Flare Affinity would boost the frequency and potency of those

#

But no other bane attributes are affected by Flare Affinity

covert tendon
#

I find this unbalanced since acuity literally adds 5x AS/CS

leaden narwhal
#

acuity is a flare. Bane effects are not, they're constant vs their target foe (except for the flare)

covert tendon
#

Hmm true…then if I add bane to my shield is it 5% per add?

last wharf
#

Looks like these lore flares are going to be great for those who already use lores, or have cheap access to lores. Kind of a gimme, not counting the price tag of course.

covert tendon
#

Just like you can add additional As/ds/weighting/padding.. I should be able to buy multiple bane and have 20% e/p/b bonus

last wharf
#

Actually it's more like when CMANs came out, and we got free stuff for training how we would have trained anyway, but you get to also pay a bunch of BS. Still going to be great for those who are already lore heavy.

keen merlin
#

Can Flare Affinity and Loreflares both be active at the same time? And where do you buy FA?

tranquil turtle
#

for the low low price of 1m BS, they can be 🙂

stoic dune
#

Boo, it should be buy one, get one half off!

exotic kiln
#

Or .. we all know what a drug HESS is. The first one should be free.

dusty pendant
#

What about FA for leg greaves (armor accessories) at 1/5 the cost of armor?

covert storm
dusty pendant
#

My rusalkoren leg greaves would be very interested (edit: I know it would not apply to the material flare, they have dispel on them)

#

I'm assuming, but I guess I should confirm since now we know FA can go on armor, that FA does not impact spikes?

covert storm
#

Yep, that's correct - no impact to spikes

tall jolt
#

Tried out my ebow on GST, was sad it didn't work with FA 😢

remote comet
#

any plans for caster oriented armor flourishes?

lone minnow
#

Gotta play a physical combat class if you want gear to be fun I’m afraid

tame spear
#

Throw out suggestions

stoic dune
#

mana capacitor, every X mana spent it either empowers your next cast (+25 As/15 cs), gives you back 25 mana, or lightning based aoe. All chance based 33% each. No control.

glad socket
#

similar idea but
mana shield, offensive spells cast add temp hp equal to half mana spent stacking to a certain point, damage taken reduces from the mana shield first and reduces crit severity by X if damage doesn't surpass the shield.

idea is something that could allow a more offensive channel style of play perhaps at high levels that leave you more vulnerable for longer

wheat hollow
#

Caster’s Flare Flourish. Mana builds up around you in a field, lashes out at enemies with your attuned elemental damage type (or disruption, dispel, or something you can set). The more spells you cast within 60 seconds, the higher the damage and crit rank. Flares every ten seconds. Blocks dispel on you, since it gets hit first. Fades after 60 seconds of no casting.

gilded ingot
#

smug armor
every time an enemy swings at you and misses you get an acuity bonus equal to how negative their attack roll was
it doubles if you make a derisive comment about them being dumb oxen or something after.

last wharf
#

Not that more isn't better, (more options for everyone!) but aren't lore flares tailor made for casters?

halcyon oxide
#

The request was in regards to armor, which are less commonly usedul for casters

gilded ingot
#

I don't even know that you can say it benefits pures more. even setting aside the crazyness of getting to the final 100% flare chance barrier it's not terribly onerous to get the 105 breakpoint and 50% flare chance on an mstrike / assault is probably >>>> 100% on a spell every 3 seconds. They were certainly intended as a benefit to pures but that clearly breaks as most things do at the top end of exp at least.

remote comet
#

The less mana you have left the higher your CS becomes

narrow wing
#

Am I crazy, or was there some method of turning rotflares into necromancy lore flares?

leaden narwhal
#

It's in the pins

covert storm
narrow wing
#

thank you @covert storm!

dense fox
#

Need to ring a bell everytime you gain another Flourish convert!

visual jewel
#

im having some issues on my runestaff with flare affinity and summong lore flares on a sigil staff. Its not flaring at all.

# 
It allows a caster to occasionally focus their magical prowess (+50 AS/+30 CS) for a single cast.
It appears to weigh about 2 pounds.
It is estimated to be worth about 1,000,000,000 silvers.
It is predominantly crafted of surita.  It is greater surita (d125).
It has been ensorcelled 5 times.
It has been sanctified 5 times.  It has permanent Holy Fire flares.
It may be enchanted up to a bonus of 35 by a wizard and was last enchanted by Ozet.
It is an overwhelming project (1,321 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.
It has some unknown (scripted) benefit.
It has the Least Moods, Flare Affinity, and Lore Flares - Spiritual Lore - Summoning Flourishes.```
proven thunder
# 
    FLOURISH FIRST # - Move a Flourish to the top of the priority list``` move the summoning ?
dusky temple
#

did you buy the 1m bs cert that allows you to have two active flourishes?

glacial dock
#

The flourish verb has an option to show you what is active. Also, for 100% flare rate, you need around 171 ranks in summoning lore.

rich folio
#

Shield combat flourish idea.....

Shield Synergy:
Flourish for shields - standard flare chance forknown setup, AoE, or attack manuevers with shields to chain into each other.
Example If you use shield throw, and also have bash... standard flare chance for one to chain into another.

Your carmiln buckler flashes toward an infernal death knight!
[SMR result: 229 (Open d100: 38, Bonus: 51)]
   ... 60 points of damage!
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Nice blow to abdomen!
   The death knight is stunned!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Stomach strike knocks the death knight backwards several feet.
Your carmiln buckler ricochets off the death knight and flashes toward a horned basalt grotesque!
The evanescent shield shrouding a horned basalt grotesque fades briefly.
[SMR result: 150 (Open d100: 16, Bonus: 18)]
   ... 16 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Strike glances off the chest.
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Side strike shoves the basalt grotesque several feet sideways.
   It is knocked to the ground!

 ** A spike on your carmiln buckler jabs into the basalt grotesque! **
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Loud *crack* as the basalt grotesque's sternum breaks!
You deftly catch your carmiln buckler on the rebound.
---------------------
Catching the shield while moving towards the horned basalt grotesque, you leverage your moment to follow up with a shield bash!
The evanescent shield shrouding a horned basalt grotesque fades briefly.
[SMR result: 215 (Open d100: 66, Bonus: 51)]
Your size greatly hinders your attack!
You lash out with a hard shield bash!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Brushing blow to temple.
   ... 3 points of damage!
   Strike to head dizzies the basalt grotesque.
Your attack exposes a vulnerability in a horned basalt grotesque's defenses!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

End scene

rigid bridge
# 
The intense cold contacts the krag dweller's hot skin with a sharp hiss!
R>
The krag dweller cries out in agony as its skin shatters!
   ... 30 points of damage!
   Hard strike to left leg breaking tendons and bone!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Strong blow to chest!
[You have earned 1 prestige point.]
The krag dweller collapses into a pile of rubble.```

Nyxus I have a weird edge case here.

Because telepathy lore flares are imaginary, they can do heat or cold damage.  In the above example the krag dweller imagined both hot and cold damage for the two rounds of telepathy lore DoT and that caused the reaction where stone shatters.

The issue is that the damage done in this edge case is much less than the intended damage of the DoT
exotic kiln
#

Did it really though? Do we know if the stone shattering does actual crit wounds?

rigid bridge
#

So should the stone shattering completely negate the DoT damage? Because the actual DoT did not take place at all. Just the stone shattering

stoic dune
#

I saw some published min/max dmg numbers in the pin but I assume those numbers are before any of the critters natural crit padding, damage padding or other quirks. I swear the golems in HW were tanking my initial and DoT flares very well to the tune of like 5 dmg per
Other critters like wargs seemed to take the full brunt of damage

exotic kiln
#

I suspect you have more clips of it not killing the creature there fore negating the dot damage.

stoic dune
#

Also, since I converted to 171 fire lore I have plainly given up trying to read anything on my screen.... orange highlights for lore flares and lore DoTs just mean my screen is a halo of fire constantly.. not a bad thing but its funny

covert storm
#

That's an interesting case. The R> is important there as it indicates that the DoT completed and the skin shattering occurred in a separate "execution frame"

#

If that's the case, I'm not sure why the DoT damage wouldn't show

#

In other words, I think that your clip shows that the DoT tick resolved, and then in the next frame the skin shattered occurred, and it seems like the DoT didn't do any damage

tiny iris
covert storm
#

Oh yeah

rigid bridge
#

It's hard to see if any damage from the dot actually occured on my end due to the stone shattering but I've see it enough times that its not a fluke. Been messing with dwellers for a couple hours now

covert storm
#

I think that what's happening is that the code checks to see if the initial crit damage is negated for some reason, and in this case it looks like that is happening:
The intense cold contacts the krag dweller's hot skin with a sharp hiss!

#

So the code is probably treating this case the same as, just as an example, the case where a fire elemental is receiving a fire crit+DoT

#

And indeed it looks like for some reason that "sharp hiss" effect negates the damage entirely (while adding a subsequent skin crack effect)

rich folio
covert storm
#

Good question. I'm not sure. Just to be clear, a plain > would indicate the same thing to me here

#

That the DoT stuff was finished, and the next thing is unrelated

halcyon oxide
#

R is you're in round time. J means you are Joined to a group. I think stun is... Either S or !

exotic kiln
#

H is for hidden, I is for invisible, P is prone, U is unconscious, W for webbed.

rich folio
#

well, how about that... all new to me.

Thanks!

exotic kiln
#

and of course theres DEAD which is self explanatory

#

and of course the super secret verb.

>prompt
Prompt codes:

   W ... Webbed
   I ... Immobilized
   i ... Invisible
   P ... Prone
   S ... Stunned
   s ... Sitting
   J ... Joined
   K ... Kneeling
   U ... Unconscious 
   H ... Hidden
   C ... Calmed
   R ... In round-time delay
   ! ... Losing HPs due to bleed/disease/poison
DEAD ... Dead
halcyon oxide
#

Ah, I thought ! Was something.

rich folio
#

Okay... now we need to make a fun song to remember what the letters stand for

wheat hollow
#

Looks like WHIPS CRUNCH

remote comet
#

why don't bandit traps trigger "I" flag though

violet fractal
#

There's always some random things that don't play well, like the phosphorescent worm stun in thurfels is super long and doesn't come up in spell active

wheat hollow
#

Leeches’ blood drain from gigas disciples too, I think. Would be nice if that were in health or something. And an icon. It’s just the ambient message and the health drain that tells you.

candid cliff
#

the lack of multi-target spells for sorcerers has become even more apparent watching other classes cause multiple DoTs. I'm glad lore flares - necro can cause multiple DoTs unlike rotflares, but sure wish I could make use of em too! 😭

glad socket
#

no spells proc lore flares on multiple targets, only melee and ranged attacks do, that was a decision with the AoE review, which probably should be revisted in the post world of OP things like volley

candid cliff
#

518 does

You hurl a large boulder at a triton fanatic!
  AS: +401 vs DS: +220 with AvD: +40 + d125 roll: +43 = +264
   ... and hit for 96 points of damage!
   Strong blow to right arm breaks it!
** A sickly green aura radiates from a light grey aura surita runestaff gyred with faewood and wrotwood geometry and seeps into a triton fanatic's wounds! **
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Vertebrae swell in the triton fanatic's neck, thrusting through the skin.
You hurl a large boulder at a triton fanatic!
  AS: +401 vs DS: +212 with AvD: +40 + d125 roll: +61 = +290
   ... and hit for 114 points of damage!
   Strong blow to right leg breaks it!
** A sickly green aura radiates from a light grey aura surita runestaff gyred with faewood and wrotwood geometry and seeps into a triton fanatic's wounds! **
   ... 30 points of damage!
   Bones shatter in the triton fanatic's leg!
exotic kiln
#

518 is aoe?

candid cliff
#

Rotflares could only have one DoT at a time and wouldn't proc again until it was dead. Lore flares seem different.

518 is multi-target

exotic kiln
#

Lore Flares are the same. one dot (per lore type) per target regardless of source. If they're not it's a bug and will be squashed quickly.

stoic dune
exotic kiln
candid cliff
#

doesn't seem the case... was hunting OSA last night and it seemed my partner was DoTing multiples

exotic kiln
#

You can dot multiple targets, but the target can't have multiples of the same dot. It may have appeared that way with multiple targets of the same creature. Which could be verified with the xml logs. If it was happening though, know that it's a bug and will not be left that way.

stoic dune
#

I want to see the procs on a dual elemental lore TWC user who causes major bleed

exotic kiln
#

And back to 518, it may be unique in that it multicasts spells, rather than the same spell hitting multiple targets.

candid cliff
#

DoTing multiple targets from one attack is my complaint since sorcerers don't have a multi-target attack like others. But at least lore flares can DoT more than one at a time vs rotflares.

glad socket
#

Agree that 518 is a unique aoe, but it definitely used to only proc flares on the first target.

exotic kiln
# candid cliff DoTing multiple targets from one attack is my complaint since sorcerers don't ha...

13:40:47: Skin peels off <pushBold/>a <a exist="854060854" noun="warlock">triton warlock's</a><popBold/> body, exposing rotting flesh.
13:40:48: Skin peels off <pushBold/>a <a exist="854017077" noun="warlock">triton warlock's</a><popBold/> body, exposing rotting flesh.
Here are two different warlocks taking a tick of rot flare dot damage one second apart. So rotflare dot can indeed affect more than one target at a time. They operate the same as the other lore flares in this regard. There was a "bug" where rotflare and necromancy lore flare dots could both be on the same target. That was squashed.

tall jolt
#

what kind of a nerd reads the xml feed 🤓

candid cliff
glad socket
#

no, it could only apply to a single creature once, but it could be on multiple critters from the same person

candid cliff
glad socket
candid cliff
wispy light
#

I thought the hidden DoT was removed in favor of the revised DoT.

exotic kiln
#

rotflares remains untouched. necromancy lore has the new dot. both of which have the exact same application mechanics.

candid cliff
wispy light
#

Oh right, someone may not have converted....it should have just been done, having two versions out there is....cumbersome.

stoic dune
#

Hey, what are peoples' thoughts on the length of the initial elemental/other flourish flare messages. It seems like the initial messaging (which you will see a heck of a lot) keys in the FULL item description vs. the short/brief item description used in other flares. Any opinions on whether using the brief one would be a better QoL change for viewing pleasure? My vote would be the short description to de-clutter messaging. (Or I guess I can just use lich to hide the text)

exotic kiln
#

Boo, they've been this way for many years! No reason to change it because they're main stream now.

stoic dune
#

Its definitely a preference thing, based on my screen size it takes up a couple lines every time but like I said I can squelch it. Runestaff people always got the crazy long paragraph item descriptions.

glad socket
#

I personally like the scroll, wouldn't like to see it reduced across the board, but if there was a flag or something that could reduce it, then sure

#

it's actually one of the few things I think that does the full long item description in the flare though, most things I believe use the 15/15/15

stoic dune
#

Is there a limit on long description, I want to see someone's super old literal paragraph item

exotic kiln
#

** A sickly green aura radiates from a ghezyte long bow with a thorn-carved scarlet despanal set in its limbs and seeps into a triton brawler's wounds! **
I think this is pretty close to the limit.

tame spear
#

We try to keep it around 12 words but there's not a mechanical limit

glad socket
#

mines fairly long? a crimson-hued dark surita staff adorned with a silver raven clutching a crimson blazestar

stoic dune
#

I feel like I remember some armor with long description vividly representing a wizard fighting a battle vs something. Basically the item's should-be show was in the main long description...

tame spear
#

I guess 512 characters is the mechanical limit but if you get that it's likely an accident

glad socket
#

oh, show's can be pretty long, but those don't show up in the flare, just the long description of the item

tame spear
#

If you had an old alteration that was super long sure it'll be a lot, but we aren't going to recode the game to cater to an alteration that breaks the alter rules

stoic dune
#

You can always tell the ancient items when the whole long description has a Wrayth hyperlink

void tartan
void tartan
tame spear
#

Virilneus used to have a very long description runestaff kept in one of those weapon harnesses so that the description was like 5 lines long that I duplicated because it brought me such joy

#

Maybe I do understand the allure of scrollflares after all

leaden narwhal
wet charm
#

Reminds me of looking at Yavs. I had to alias it to ```You see Yavs

___| | | _ \ _| _| __ \
| | | | | _ \ | | |
| | | __ < | | | |
_| _/ _| _\ _____/ _____| ____/ ```

idle girder
candid cliff
#

Are lore flares supposed to work with 135? Not getting a flare with it. I am with 110.

exotic kiln
#

does not work with aoe spells no

native shoal
#

the biggest usage ones I can see are: alchemy, pelt bundler, survival kit, and just because I'd like it, the weavable tote.
dunno how realistic any of those would be in terms of conversion to.

wispy light
#

And the old school spider one, that I can't give up for nostalgia.

tame spear
#

Tricky way to get new eyes on it

violet fractal
#

are flourishes always going to be 400k, or is that just how it's worked out so far 💸

exotic kiln
#

There has been mention of some tiering. Like if Knockout went to a flourish it would likely not be 400k. But nothing more than mentioning it in passing.

rich folio
#

i'm over here waiting for that "returner" flourish 😬

devout phoenix
#

Q: Is there a place where someone can learn about flourishes without spending their Christmas holiday reading through this thread?

Primarily I am interested in adding knockout flares to a weapon this upcoming DR and someone mentioned I should get it via flourishes... I have no idea what that means and unfortunately the wiki page primarily points back to the Discord thread here...

If someone wants to just say "Can't be done." or "You can do that. Do A and then B." that would be awesome! Thanks!

leaden narwhal
# devout phoenix Q: Is there a place where someone can learn about flourishes without spending th...

The terminology offered to you in explanation was incomplete. Combat flourishes are a fairly new thing, and represent effects that don’t modify the shape or behavior of your armament (physically or verb traps, for example). By default you get one combat flourish slot per item. There is not a “knockout flare flourish”, rather the Skull crusher flourish is the equivalent to the KO script in terms of effect. But takes a different slot, leaving your script slot open. Other combat flourish examples are lore flares. They are all offered at DR in the annex as a self-serve add. You manage them with the FLOURISH verb

devout phoenix
#

Thank you for the response... So the skullcrusher flare would take the "flare" slot? Since this is a pally weapon that sounds like I would be better off with the knockout flare (which uses the script slot of the weapon). Or... is the flourish slot its own spot on the item now so you can have... pally flares, sciript flare, and flourish flares now?

leaden narwhal
devout phoenix
#

Cool deal. So going crazy. I can keep my pally flares, add skullcrusher flourish, and still add some other script flares (knockout or nightbringer or similar). That sounds... crazy. Appreciate it!

leaden narwhal
#

So yes, you’d be good to go with 1625 + script + flourish (and some materials or bane flares if you really want!). Also doesn’t conflict with holy fire or battle standards.

devout phoenix
#

I greatly appreciate your time here. I never would have figured that out from the info I am seeing on the wiki. 🙂

leaden narwhal
#

Happy to help!

wispy light
#

You can also get material flares and bane flares. (Though bane is stupidly overpriced for what it is.)

compact karma
#

I have a spikestar that I'd like to convert the stalwart resistance flare into a flourish but FLOURISH CONVERT is not working. There's also a Lesser Mood Flare on the item that I think is causing the issue perhaps? I've tried to get the dabbler at DR to remove it, but he's not able, he only sees the other flourish I have on the item (skullcrusher). I did log an assist.

leaden narwhal
#

Did you unlock a second flourish slot? Asking to confirm you're aware that otherwise you can only have one of skullcrusher or steel skin active at once

tame spear
#

The combat flourishes that have main scripts are intentionally excluded from the automatic flourish convert but if you assist we can get you squared up.

compact karma
#

Thank you.

compact karma
compact karma
#

Well, I did convert the lesser moods to a flourish, but decided I wanted to remove it because it shares a verb trap with the Daybringer script. When I went to remove it I chose the correct flourish, but the dabbler took off the skullcrusher flourish instead:

A dim spikestar has the following Flourishes:

  >  1. Skullcrusher Flares (Mechanical)
     2. Glaes Skin Flares +36 (Mechanical) (Inactive)
     3. Least Moods - APPROVE


  >  Denotes Active Combat Flourish

Only one mechanical flourish can be active at a time.  You may change the active flourish by changing the Flourish Priority via FLOURISH [UP | DOWN | FIRST] [FLOURISH #].
>ask dab about remove flourish 3
A perky bearded dabbler informs, "You are requesting the removal of: Flourish Removal - Least Moods from a dim spikestar with a blackened haft.  This is a permanent removal!  If you are sure you want me to proceed with this service for 1,000 bloodscrip, repeat your command within 30 seconds, and I will continue my work."
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>ask dab about remove flourish 3
With an exaggerated nod, a perky bearded dabbler says, "And just like that, the Flourish Removal - Least Moods property is gone, as if it never existed.  Now, that'll be 1,000 bloodscrip, please."

You hand over payment promptly```

Here's what it looks like now:
```flourish spike
A dual-headed gilded eonake spikestar has the following Flourishes:

  >  1. Glaes Skin Flares +36 (Mechanical)
     2. Least Moods - APPROVE
tame spear
#

Back in the assist queue with you please

compact karma
#

Oh, I'm there. 🙂

tame spear
#

And please submit a bug report for the dabbler

compact karma
#

Is there something I need to do to have the show description show again Dr. Vanah? Still not showing the show, just the base.

#

Ahh, figured it out, had to push it. 🙂

compact karma
#

Does the Sweep Flourish work if a weapon already has dispel flares as a Cat B flare?

tame spear
#

It should. The point of the combat flourishes are to be stand alone add ons on top of whatever else

errant elbow
#

Flourishes are the best.

urban bluff
#

I would love to request some shield specific combat flourishes other than warding flares and flare affinity when you guys have time to be creative!

narrow lodge
#

I was actually brainstorming that I would also like more shield flourishes during yardwork today.

Have any ideas?

urban bluff
# narrow lodge I was actually brainstorming that I would also like more shield flourishes durin...

I'd have to think about it for awhile, but off the top of my head maybe something that absorbs the force of blows the shield blocks/absorbs that charges it up to certain levels and can then be channeled back into either a shield-based maneuver attack or an AS/DS resolution attack with varying effects based on charge level.

I.e. it absorbs 20 blocks from a forward or greater stance and you can then use it to jam into the ground for a quake effect, or at 50, it will create an unbalance flare on the shield/weapon attack and give an extra amount of concussive damage similar to bloodstone earrings, then at 100 maybe it gives a major e-wave with impact criticals etc.

Plenty of ways to balance it, but that's just the first thing that comes to mind.

I'm sure you could work on something that benefits guard/protect verb and I'm often looking to see new concepts in combat. Taunting shields that specifically draw enemy attacks for a specific amount of time because you painted a target on them.

There are some many possibilities with the stuff in PSM3, EBP system, maneuvers, shield maneuvers, group combat mechanics.

I'm up for anything fun.

#

Veniom infusions that allow them to temporarily be mounted as a hoverboard attack on a flying creature.

Overgrowth for wooden shields that can eventually give you activated barkskin or stoneskin if it's metal

#

For toward shields you could do something like fortress shields that you place at feet which dig into the ground allowing the player to retain half of the block percentage they would normally have, but frees their hand up to go TWC if they like, but binds their movement so they can't run away and has hard RT to pick up and retract.

fierce crypt
urban bluff
#

Mind you I'm just tossing out random ideas here, I don't even use tower shields.

stoic dune
#

A flourish with provoke flares, standard flare rate to "attract" 1d3 similar critter to the one targeted. Call it "Bounty Hunter's Delight".

narrow lodge
#

Cool ideas. Most of these are probably better as scripts than flourishes because of their complexity. Things that happen on an an attack (or block, etc) are usually where flourishes shine. Love the creativity, has me thinking also.

#

Provoke/taunt flares are interesting.

gilded ingot
#

i was gonna say but had to go afk, i bet everyone is gonna lean towards overly complex things that are more scripts. i think skullcrusher / polearm are neat flourish options at a (mostly) reasonable (by gemstone standards) pricing and it'd be neat if that got expanded to all the weapon/damage types so something more in that vein for shields.

I think a taunt to make things more likely / forced to attack you is kind of a neat one. maybe also something kinda like the rogue covert art for SMR (where you have a standard flare chance to defend like you're in a higher stance). So l ike standard flare chance on being attacked that you're treated as if you're in a X% higher stance than you were (but also don't make it deactivate defensive shield flares if you're in higher than guarded stance 😄 )

stoic dune
#

How about flourish that flares an extra powerful crit based on how good your weapon is.... no upgrades.. 5pts dmg, but........ 10x +1 crit rank, T5 +1 crit rank, S6 +1 crit rank, Perfect +1 crit rank, Cat B flare +25% for secondary flare, filled script slot +25% for secondary flare, material slot filled +25% for secondary flare, Bane or Other slot filled, +25% for secondary flare
So if you got the Uber weapon this flourish is dishing out 100% double +4 crit rank flares
The ultimate whale flourish

warm jasper
tiny iris
#

Every missed block roll adds a 1% additional chance to block until you block.

last wharf
#

Like warding flares flourish, but SMR defense. Maybe not quite so many tiers on the defense side, but duration could be done the same way.

compact karma
#

Just double checking that the combat flourish, Sweep Flares, only works on spears or chainspears when used in two hands and won't flare if used in a one handed mode?

leaden narwhal
#

Answered in the other channel too, but yes - only two handed

compact karma
#

Any chance this limitation could be revisited? The flare seems very similar in action to skull crusher (knockout) flourish and there's no limitation on it being applied to an appropriate one handed weapon. The weapon technique radial sweep also works when the polearm is used in one handed mode, I'm unsure why the sweep flourish needs to be limited.

summer grail
summer grail
#

Another idea instead of the standard AS/DS, maybe hard RT first lvl 5, add certs to bring it up to 15. If its triggered on a shield manuever it would be nice if we dont stun or immobilize the mob as i am always in offensive stance.

idle sonnet
#

I'm confused.. you DON'T want to stun/immobilize? If they're stunned and/or immobilized, they can't try to hit me, and that's a good thing.

summer grail
# idle sonnet I'm confused.. you DON'T want to stun/immobilize? If they're stunned and/or immo...

Sorry i probably didnt explain my idea well enough. If i use a shield maneuver and the outcome is such that the creature is not stunned, knocked down or forced in a more favorable stance then i am at risk for getting attacked while I am in offensive stance. An idea for a flourish would be that it would add hard RT to creatures to mititgate the above situation. Just something difference then more flares/damage

#

Also could conisider flourishes that address weakness of the different shield sizes. + dodge % for larger shields, +block % for smaller shields....maybe let the buff last 2 mins rather then 60s

idle sonnet
rich folio
#

Question regarding Flare Affinity, with Dispel Flares....

Expectation would be that since it's pre-resolution, it goes off pretty consistently at 40% flare rate. Correct?

last wharf
#

I'm going to double down on SMR defense flourish. Same build mechanism as warding flares.

rich folio
summer grail
#

does flare affinity work for script flares or just cat b?

leaden narwhal
#

Just ability (and technically bane flares, but most people don't go for those)

summer grail
#

ability = cat b ?

last wharf
woven depot
halcyon cliff
#

Are warding flares only for one cast or for the duration?

rich folio
halcyon cliff
#

That’s pretty awesome

urban bluff
rich folio
urban bluff
compact karma
#

I've noticed possibly some issues with having armor that has warding flourish and a shield that also has the same flourish, but they have different magnitudes and times:

A triton warlock glares malevolently at you.
You hear a deafening wail as a ghostly white vapor surrounds you, swirling around your dwarven full plate!
  CS: +414 - TD: +368 + CvA: -46 + d100: +48 - +15 == +33
  Warded off!```
There's a different message if the pavis flares, the above was a clip of a flare from the armor. In my buff window it showed I had warding flare but only at +20 TD for 25 seconds when it initially flared.  Here's the stats for the armor:
```It has the Warding Flares +25 (25 seconds) and Least Moods Flourishes.```
Here's what's on the pavis:
```It has the Warding Flares +20 (15 seconds) Flourish.```
compact karma
#

Would a lore flourish (blessing in this case) fire off on a cast of spike thorn?

finite steeple
#

yes

leaden narwhal
#

If it's on a runestaff